S03.E08. Lazarus. 2018.06.20

[thewhiteowl]

Katie suspects a dark side to her refugee work. Will helps with a Resistance operation. Snyder goes back to work for the IGA. Bram starts a new job.

[mxc90]

From the opening, that guy seemed extremely agile and strong. I guess they are turning people into super soldiers. 

How did Katie not get into trouble and able to return home after sneaking on the bus?

Lot of scenes between Bram and Gracie lately, it's like the writers forgot to bond those two in the first two season and are now making up for lost time.

Is Kynes' strategy that hard to figure out from afar for Synder and the other colony leaders? I guess the only difference is he dealing with the hosts.

All that security at the building but no protection for when they drive down a dark alley that is perfect for an ambush.

Surprised Will and Broussard ran an operation and have no other way to communicate (only Amy relaying the message).

I agree with Amy at this time, I would be skeptical of Will too.

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, mxc90 said:

 

Surprised Will and Broussard ran an operation and have no other way to communicate (only Amy relaying the message).

 

Broussard didn’t have a phone but Amy has to have one. They should have had some sort code words/sentence set up ahead of time in case they had to call each other and abort the mission. (I assume the phones are monitored all the time.)

[Dowel Jones]

I would think that, being a colony, there wouldn't be any significant differences between schools.  Maybe the aliens just let the humans run their own society up to a point.  It still makes me wonder about the end game, though. 

Kynes sure had a way of getting under Snyder's skin, eh?  If anything causes Snyder to fail, it will be his resentment about the insults causing him to go personal on his mission. 

Broussard's co-revolutionary had a good line: "Where did this technology come from?"  Well, let's see.  The entire world has been taken over by an alien race that is capable of interstellar travel, construction of wall-like barriers several miles long in space and landing them everywhere simultaneously.  Just guessing, but....  And Broussard; although it worked out to your benefit, did you maybe stop to think that with all the advanced technology available to those guys, and the heavy security, that it might be possible that they would have placed a tracking device on the suitcase that you took directly to your house?

I'm thinking some kind of Soylent Green-like operation for all those folks that are being admitted to Seattle under false pretensions.

This is really going to be interesting; Katie with her fear/anger/disgust at the admission process, Will with his anger at the return of Snyder, and Bram between them, working for the Community Nazis Patrol.

[UNOSEZ]

This show is much better when it's "bowman +broussard " I'm hoping next week the Katie/Eric reunion is good... I assume amy will be wary of her as well... Especially as broussard and Katie have such a close ( but I think platonic)  dynamic

[mxc90]

5 hours ago, Accidental Martyr said:

Broussard didn’t have a phone but Amy has to have one. They should have had some sort code words/sentence set up ahead of time in case they had to call each other and abort the mission. (I assume the phones are monitored all the time.)

I agree. From a previous episode, it was mentioned Gracie has a phone. I didn't think it would be hard to obtain one or they were in a rush to run this mission and didn't really plot all the details.

[meira.hand]

8 hours ago, mxc90 said:

I agree with Amy at this time, I would be skeptical of Will too.

I found it either strange or simply annoying (if she did not do it on purpose) that she omitted to mention that will did not just bolt, he specifically told her to tell Broussard to abort the mission. Instead she chose to improvise and not say anything.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

5 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Kynes sure had a way of getting under Snyder's skin, eh?  If anything causes Snyder to fail, it will be his resentment about the insults causing him to go personal on his mission. 

I totally disagree. For Snyder, personal insults just run off of him like water off a duck's back. Especially since he is from the IGA and is in the more powerful position, kind of. Even if he weren't, Snyder is going to do what he has to do. He's got his eyes on the prize at all times. He's not going to let something silly like a personal dig distract him or get in his way.

11 hours ago, mxc90 said:

From the opening, that guy seemed extremely agile and strong. I guess they are turning people into super soldiers. 

That's what I was thinking, too. I wonder what they are doing with the busfuls of people that they are sending to "Portland" then? It doesn't seem like they are the cream of the crop, human wise. I mean the fragile old man? I thought it was for slave labor but now... And if they have super technology to grow crops, it's not to feed humans. Maybe the hosts though.

Katie seems kind of naive for what she's been through so far. I mean, she joined the resistance back when the hosts had just shown up. She's learned so much since then yet she seems surprised that something fishy is going on in the Seattle bloc. I laughed and laughed when she asked Will to stay and he just walked out without saying anything. 

[Ziggy]

On 6/21/2018 at 6:19 AM, mxc90 said:

I agree. From a previous episode, it was mentioned Gracie has a phone. I didn't think it would be hard to obtain one or they were in a rush to run this mission and didn't really plot all the details.

I got the impression that the phones are issued to everyone in the colony.  It seems to be a way for the colony to track people.  Broussard doesn't have a phone because he snuck into the colony.

On 6/21/2018 at 8:05 AM, meira.hand said:

I found it either strange or simply annoying (if she did not do it on purpose) that she omitted to mention that will did not just bolt, he specifically told her to tell Broussard to abort the mission. Instead she chose to improvise and not say anything.

Amy didn't have time to do anything.  She ran to the alley as fast as she could.  By the time she got there, Broussard had already disabled the car.  Will's job was to block the car so that they couldn't back out the alley, and that's what she did.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Ziggy

[meira.hand]

1 hour ago, Ziggy said:

Amy didn't have time to do anything.  She ran to the alley as fast as she could.  By the time she got there, Broussard had already disabled the car.  Will's job was to block the car so that they couldn't bakc out the alley, and that's what she did.

If she followed Will's request to abort, she could have let the car back up and leave the scene, go to Broussard to explain and leave with no risk. She chose instead to continue with the plan. As she did not know the reason for the abort, it was unnecessary and too risky and based on her mistrust of Will. 

[mxc90]

7 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

That's what I was thinking, too. I wonder what they are doing with the busfuls of people that they are sending to "Portland" then? It doesn't seem like they are the cream of the crop, human wise. I mean the fragile old man? I thought it was for slave labor but now... And if they have super technology to grow crops, it's not to feed humans. Maybe the hosts though.

Also, after his capture the guard called him an "outlier". I guess all ages have different purposes for the hosts.

I forgot to mention: Will was a complete ass to Amy at their initial meeting. She had a smile/nice greeting and Will responded with a sarcastic response.

I think Michelle knows more than she'is leading on. If Kynes know her name she is important to him.

Edited June 21, 2018 by mxc90

[eskimo]

This episode was a little slower than what we've been getting lately.  I like the connection Bram and Gracie have, but Katie's disconnect from her kids irks me.  Her character has seemed to regress.  I would think after everything they've been through she'd hold more tightly to her family.  Gracie might really be better off with Bram, he actually talks to her and seems to really know her and want what's best for her.  Katie just comes and goes and maybe eeks out a disinterested 'how was your day' every now and then.  And have we seen Will interact with the family, besides his conflict with Katie, at all?  He's really falling apart.  I was surprised that he wasn't more interested in what Katie learned, though.  I think the time jump so deep into this new life left out too much. 

Next week looks like we'll be back into the action, though.  Will is seething with hatred, much of it directed at Snyder, and look who turns up!  Of course Will doesn't know what we know.  Snyder only called in the red hats because everybody's life was in danger, the kids included as far as he knew.  But the fact that Snyder lied about being with the Occupation for that whole time they spent together will ruin any validity in whatever Snyder says, even if it's true.  I fear Snyder might really be a goner.  We know the writers will kill a prominent character if need be.  I will be so disappointed, because I love (and hate) the weasel!  But there's no way the Bowman's could ever trust he wasn't a double agent again.  Peter Jacobson and Josh Holloway are both underrated actors IMO.  The way Josh has portrayed Will has been golden.  And Peter Jacobson is so good at being both arrogant and a coward. 

[BeulahBee]

I am saddened that the writers seem to forget who Broussard is.  Broussard was introduced as Katie's friend.  Katie always had Broussard's back, even when she was leaving the resistance. The idea that she would not like Broussard because of the job that she has is something that Broussard would not take into consideration.  He, instead, goes to Will, a person with whom he has not had as much interaction and who might not have his back like Katie.  Then when his current partner, a doctor, warns Broussard about Will, Broussard ignores the warning.  Then when he finds out that Will wants to kill Snyder, he should know that Will is now acting out of emotion, not acting with thoughtfulness which means that any operation is in danger of Will's impulsiveness.  Broussard used to be street smart and cautious; now he is neither.

Another point: I think that the hosts may not be the enemy.  True, they are doing despicable things to humans, but the hosts are machines so they might not know that they are doing despicable things to humans.  I think when they approached people from earth, the people they approached took the opportunity to create a dictatorship in their favor.  Snyder is concerned that someone besides the IGA is having conversations with the hosts.  Maybe, up until now, only the IGA has fed information about humans to the hosts.  The captured host believes people to be allies, after all.

[Netfoot]

16 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm thinking some kind of Soylent Green-like operation for all those folks that are being admitted to Seattle under false pretensions.

Snyder:  "How are you feeding everyone?"

YoursTruly: "Soylent Green is people!"

[Ziggy]

18 hours ago, meira.hand said:

If she followed Will's request to abort, she could have let the car back up and leave the scene, go to Broussard to explain and leave with no risk. She chose instead to continue with the plan. As she did not know the reason for the abort, it was unnecessary and too risky and based on her mistrust of Will. 

That's a good point.  I had assumed that when Will said abort, he meant stop Broussard from disabling the car ... to abort after the car was disabled might raise suspicion and potentially get them caught.  I'm not sure how must of a risk they would be taking, but that might have been what Amy was thinking.

[seacliffsal]

I am glad that Snyder is in Seattle.  We now have all the main characters in the same location again, so things should start ramping up.

It did seem to me though that the guy with the briefcase would have had more security with him.  I did like that Will "bumped" into him to get a better understanding of his security team.  

I think this show has really improved over the course of the seasons (and I was in from the beginning), and has made some smart story decisions.

[raven]

I'm a little disappointed that we ended up in another colony so soon.  I liked the vibe of living in the cabin and then being on the road.

I get that the death of a child can put a strain on a marriage; especially the way that Charlie died, but after everything they've been through, I would have hoped that Will and Katie would be closer.  We know he blames Snyder, can he blame Katie (unreasonably) too somehow?  I hope it's resolved soon, the whole Bowmans not talking to each other story has been done.   I agree that Josh Holloway is doing a good job of displaying Will's grief and anguish.

I do like Bram and Gracie bonding; it's made him more interesting. 

23 hours ago, BeulahBee said:

I am saddened that the writers seem to forget who Broussard is.  Broussard was introduced as Katie's friend.  Katie always had Broussard's back, even when she was leaving the resistance. The idea that she would not like Broussard because of the job that she has is something that Broussard would not take into consideration.  He, instead, goes to Will, a person with whom he has not had as much interaction and who might not have his back like Katie. 

These are good points.  Maybe he went to Will because of Will's job (essentially mobile) while Kate is office-bound and thus not as flexible?  I'm also annoyed by Amy, though I can't articulate why.  Also, maybe it was harder for Broussard to make a connection with Katie, though honestly I can't see how, Broussard is essentially super spy/soldier.

[Haleth]

I could do without the "Bram drinks the Koolaid" storyline. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

So the "outliers" don't know how to swim, apparently? Why didn't the superhuman guy just dive off the building?

[Emily Thrace]

On 2018-06-21 at 8:13 PM, BeulahBee said:

I am saddened that the writers seem to forget who Broussard is.  Broussard was introduced as Katie's friend.  Katie always had Broussard's back, even when she was leaving the resistance. The idea that she would not like Broussard because of the job that she has is something that Broussard would not take into consideration.  He, instead, goes to Will, a person with whom he has not had as much interaction and who might not have his back like Katie.  Then when his current partner, a doctor, warns Broussard about Will, Broussard ignores the warning.  Then when he finds out that Will wants to kill Snyder, he should know that Will is now acting out of emotion, not acting with thoughtfulness which means that any operation is in danger of Will's impulsiveness.  Broussard used to be street smart and cautious; now he is neither.

I can see Brossard seeing Katie as more of a risk. While Will may be a mess he is at least grieving. Katie justs seems to be pretending she is fine which is a bigger red flag IMO. Like I said before when Katie finally falls apart it will be bad I can see Broussard deciding he doesn't want to risk it happening in the middle of a mission. Plus Will was a proffessional soldier so even if hes falling apart he will still complete the mission.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

So the "outliers" don't know how to swim, apparently? Why didn't the superhuman guy just dive off the building?

Because he would have landed on some pretty jagged rocks below.  There was no way to survive that.

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the pods.  I thought they were needed to transport people to the moon factory, but the green goop is making them super human?  That whole sequence was so random.

[ottoDbusdriver]

13 hours ago, Haleth said:

I could do without the "Bram drinks the Koolaid" storyline. 

I think that Bram is playing the system to get the best advantage and protect his own family, like to get Gracie into a better school -- remember in the SCP orientation he was the only one to ask a question, and that question was about scheduling.  If he can get himself as part of the SCP patrol in his parents neighborhood, then they can do more Resistance-style activities and not worry about getting caught.

[Haleth]

46 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I think that Bram is playing the system to get the best advantage and protect his own family, like to get Gracie into a better school -- remember in the SCP orientation he was the only one to ask a question, and that question was about scheduling.  If he can get himself as part of the SCP patrol in his parents neighborhood, then they can do more Resistance-style activities and not worry about getting caught.

Yeah, it's starting out that way, but I betcha before the season ends he is going to find out his parents are working against the colony (no doubt Katie is on her way to fighting again) and will think about turning them in.

[eskimo]

I'm not sure that Broussard even knows what happened to Charlie yet.  When they met up at Amy's house the day after the mission, Broussard asked Will what's going on with him, and Will said something vague (I don't remember exactly what).  I imagine Will is afraid just saying the words out loud will cause him to have the complete breakdown he's trying to avoid.  Come to think of it they probably have not been able to really grieve at all, people can't know what's really happened.  And they likely have to pretend he never existed when anybody else is around.  That would put an additional strain on their emotional well-being.  If Katie showed up to work all the time with red-swollen eyes from crying all night and not sleeping, people would start to pry.  And I doubt Broussard looked into what all the kids are doing and probably hasn't noticed that Charlie isn't there. 

[UNOSEZ]

I assume that Katie and Eric will have their reunion next week... And they'll hash out all the catch up stuff then.. As it looks like they take Snyder as well.. So I'll hold off on my judgement of Eric until then

[Emily Thrace]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, it's starting out that way, but I betcha before the season ends he is going to find out his parents are working against the colony (no doubt Katie is on her way to fighting again) and will think about turning them in.

I don't see that happening. He might report something and have it blowback on his parents accidentally but I can't see him actually turning them in. He too much of his parents authority issues to conform to anything that much.

1 hour ago, eskimo said:

I'm not sure that Broussard even knows what happened to Charlie yet.  When they met up at Amy's house the day after the mission, Broussard asked Will what's going on with him, and Will said something vague (I don't remember exactly what).  I imagine Will is afraid just saying the words out loud will cause him to have the complete breakdown he's trying to avoid.  Come to think of it they probably have not been able to really grieve at all, people can't know what's really happened.  And they likely have to pretend he never existed when anybody else is around.  That would put an additional strain on their emotional well-being.  If Katie showed up to work all the time with red-swollen eyes from crying all night and not sleeping, people would start to pry.  And I doubt Broussard looked into what all the kids are doing and probably hasn't noticed that Charlie isn't there. 

He knows what jobs they have and how to find Will I would think he has noticed Charlie isn't with them. Hell he might have found Charlie's body at the camp since I doubt the red hats bothered to bury them.

[MostlyC]

I think the writers might be setting things up so that Bram/Gracie can safely live in the colony while Kate and Will run off to become part of the Resistance without worrying too much about placing their children in the (literal) line of fire.

[UNOSEZ]

39 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

I think the writers might be setting things up so that Bram/Gracie can safely live in the colony while Kate and Will run off to become part of the Resistance without worrying too much about placing their children in the (literal) line of fire.

That's a possibility... But not before bram takes a pound of flesh... He may be going along to get along right now for the sake of Gracie( as an older brother I can understand the impulse)...  But this occupation killed Charlie and if he does begrudgingly have to stay somewhere"safe" with his sis... He's def gonna put the hurt on someone else 1st

[KaleyFirefly]

On 6/22/2018 at 8:52 PM, Haleth said:

I could do without the "Bram drinks the Koolaid" storyline. 

yeah, it was so stupid and out of character for him to want to join the (equivalent of) the Redhats, after all his family has been through

[Efzee]

On 21-6-2018 at 8:12 AM, Accidental Martyr said:

Broussard didn’t have a phone but Amy has to have one. They should have had some sort code words/sentence set up ahead of time in case they had to call each other and abort the mission. (I assume the phones are monitored all the time.)

But we know all activity and location is tracked via the phones, so taking their/any phones with them on a super secret mission to steal something super important would be kinda dumb.

On 21-6-2018 at 11:15 AM, Dowel Jones said:

And Broussard; although it worked out to your benefit, did you maybe stop to think that with all the advanced technology available to those guys, and the heavy security, that it might be possible that they would have placed a tracking device on the suitcase that you took directly to your house?

.

That's what I was thinking, too! So ridiculous. Didn't they learn anything from the glove (or whatever it was) they stole from the hosts? That one had tracking tech inside as well.

On 23-6-2018 at 9:05 PM, eskimo said:

I'm not sure that Broussard even knows what happened to Charlie yet.  When they met up at Amy's house the day after the mission, Broussard asked Will what's going on with him, and Will said something vague (I don't remember exactly what).  I imagine Will is afraid just saying the words out loud will cause him to have the complete breakdown he's trying to avoid.  Come to think of it they probably have not been able to really grieve at all, people can't know what's really happened.  And they likely have to pretend he never existed when anybody else is around.  That would put an additional strain on their emotional well-being.  If Katie showed up to work all the time with red-swollen eyes from crying all night and not sleeping, people would start to pry.  And I doubt Broussard looked into what all the kids are doing and probably hasn't noticed that Charlie isn't there. 

 

On 23-6-2018 at 10:32 PM, Emily Thrace said:

I don't see that happening. He might report something and have it blowback on his parents accidentally but I can't see him actually turning them in. He too much of his parents authority issues to conform to anything that much.

He knows what jobs they have and how to find Will I would think he has noticed Charlie isn't with them. Hell he might have found Charlie's body at the camp since I doubt the red hats bothered to bury them.

He specifically asked about Charlie and Will threatened him with violence (I think) if he ever said that name again, so yeah, I think he's noticed. 

~

I understand Will's need for vengeance against Snyder, but how does he even know Snyder was responsible for luring the occupation to the resistance camp? Also, considering Snyder's previous efforts (in helping him find Charlie) and how well they know each other (both in the colony and later on the run/cabin), does he really think Snyder intended for Charlie to get killed? It's rather unreasonable, especially since Will and Lori (?) were about to be executed by the resistance and only survived because the occupation attacked the camp.

Oh and I also thought it shady that the doctor only said that Will kicked her out of the car, rather than say he told her to abort the mission and kicked her out. She made it seem like Will was very unreliable and acted for no reason.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Efzee
ETA