Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Lol.  Do they run into each other while "cleaning up"?  And do they disagree about how to 'clean up'? I think I need to see them in an episode now!

It kind of depends on whether it's primarily a demon focused crime scene or angel focused.  No I don't think they did argue because their directives from their respective leaders were to just get things cleaned up so their lives can go on. My other head!canon is that Bar!Demon and Bar!Angel from s11 had been spearheading the clean up crews all along. They just never knew who the other leader was. I figured that's why they were both amenable to working together to take out Amara. I was sad that they never met again to find out they had both always just wanted the status quo to be the order of the day.  I may or may not have shipped Bar!Demangel.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

In regards to the issue of Dean's sexuality, setting aside shipping be it Destiel or Wincest, I am going to make the very controversial statement that I don't think Jensen has done himself any favours. I am of the opinion that there have been several scenes over the years where he has not played it with the right note, if he didn't want people to consider the idea Dean may be potentially into men. For instance the whole Dr Sexy thing. He may have intended it to be a fannish, but it came across as more like a crush.

On a (very?) personal note: I've never understood this.  I am a heterosexual female.  I've always been heterosexual.  Never even wondered about kissing another woman.  And yet, I can objectively acknowledge that another woman is beautiful and sexy.  It does not take away from my femininity (or lack thereof?) whatsoever.  So I don't understand why men can't/don't have the same luxury.  

58 minutes ago, Kimmel77 said:

The series' tonal shift from serious to comedy/serious/camp. For me, its truly spoiled the show.

Now, see - to me, the show was comedy/serious/camp from the beginning.  Which is what I really liked about it.  :)

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

My other head!canon is that Bar!Demon and Bar!Angel from s11 had been spearheading the clean up crews all along.

ROTFLMAO!  I think I love this!

[Macbeth]

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

This is one of the things bugging me about Mary being back.  According to her gravestone she was 29 when she died.  She's been back around a year, I'll round up, she's 31.  The actress who plays her is 46 or 47.  I'm 44 myself, so I'm not trying to be rude, but she doesn't look 31.

It troubled me at first.  But I think they wanted Samantha to stay on, so it is clear that she is their mom.  Having a younger actress play the role - would just make things weird.  I think it would have been too much of an issue over the long run.

And having a younger actress would bring unwanted attention to just how old the J2s are getting.  Jensen is going to be 40 next year.  Blasphemy I know.

I am thankful that they made Mom an active hunter.  Which was established earlier on by better writers.  The bad writing is not helping the character make her transition to a full time player.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Macbeth said:

Jensen is going to be 40 next year.  Blasphemy I know.

Age means nothing. He'll always be beautiful! :)

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And yet, I can objectively acknowledge that another woman is beautiful and sexy.  It does not take away from my femininity (or lack thereof?) whatsoever.  So I don't understand why men can't/don't have the same luxury.  

Agree so much. Dean's idolization of Dr. Sexy isn't so different from my love for Dana Scully. She's awesome, badass and sexy but that doesn't mean I feel attraction when I watch The X-Files.

[Mick Lady]

33 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

On a (very?) personal note: I've never understood this.  I am a heterosexual female.  I've always been heterosexual.  Never even wondered about kissing another woman.  And yet, I can objectively acknowledge that another woman is beautiful and sexy.  It does not take away from my femininity (or lack thereof?) whatsoever.  So I don't understand why men can't/don't have the same luxury.  

I agree. On the same note, Mick is a big old biker, (my avatar is actually him) and when he meets his "Bros" they hug like crazy. My sister is gay, and she and her wife are the two most feminine women I know. I find my sister's wife sexy as hell. What's the big deal? I'm kind of disturbed this is even an issue.

[Wayward Son]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

People will interpret how the scene comes across in different ways which is why Destiel and Wincest fans may see one thing while Jensen may intend to portray another. I don't think it's fair to throw shade to the actor if the fan sees something other than what they're trying to bring to the screen. Also, it's very likely that he was trying to come across as a Dr. Sexy superfan and it was taken differently by fans that wished to see evidence of Bi Dean. JMO of course; YMMV.

My opinion on this depends on what you consider throwing shade at the actor. If you are referring to those people who have lambasted him by marking him as homophobic etc then I'd totally agree! No actor should be labelled as such simply because they don't happen to ship a pairing some fans would like to see happen.

On the other hand, I've seen some people who consider the very idea of people arguing that Dean's action could be construed as bi-sexual as offensive. They've argued that seeing an interpretation that Jensen did not intend is an insult to his skills as an actor! And I personally disagree with this. 

As I mentioned in my last post it isn't just fans who are seeing this within Jensen Ackles' performance. On an official DVD/Blu Ray released by the show two officials from the show (a writer and a director) discuss how they too saw "Deans potential for love in all places" coming across in Jensens reaction. 

My argument is that if Jensen finds fans believing that Dean is bi-sexual offensive because it goes contrary to his intentions that's totally fine. However, if he wants this to stop perhaps he should reflect on his performances to date and consider what he could change to make it less subjective, as I  think when you have a writer and a director commenting on it also it's more than just fans seeing what they want to see. 

Also just to make sure this is clear. I do not think the show will ever go down the bi-sexual Dean route. I'm simply stating that I can relate to those fans who genuinely see Dean being portrayed as bi-sexualish at times. Some of whom don't even have a ship they favour. This is just how they see Dean based on how he has being played. 

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

On a (very?) personal note: I've never understood this.  I am a heterosexual female.  I've always been heterosexual.  Never even wondered about kissing another woman.  And yet, I can objectively acknowledge that another woman is beautiful and sexy.  It does not take away from my femininity (or lack thereof?) whatsoever.  So I don't understand why men can't/don't have the same luxury.

 

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

Agree so much. Dean's idolization of Dr. Sexy isn't so different from my love for Dana Scully. She's awesome, badass and sexy but that doesn't mean I feel attraction when I watch The X-Files.

 

35 minutes ago, Mick Lady said:

I agree. On the same note, Mick is a big old biker, (my avatar is actually him) and when he meets his "Bros" they hug like crazy. My sister is gay, and she and her wife are the two most feminine women I know. I find my sister's wife sexy as hell. What's the big deal? I'm kind of disturbed this is even an issue.

Sorry if my remark has been taken the wrong way! I did not mean to cause anyone offence and I apologise for any that may have been taken.

Its not that I don't think men can acknowledge another as good looking or admire them. 

However, in my experience people (men or women) tend to act differently around those they have an actual crush on than they do around people they feel nothing but complete friendship for. There's a difference between the abstract "he's a good looking guy" and "he's sooooooo handsome". There's a difference between friendly gestures of afffection between friends and the more awkward ones displayed around someone you really like.  Deans behaviour just came across as more of the latter than the former for me. 

Also if I'm honest I picked that example because it was the first that came to mind and I wanted to avoid any scenes involving Cas (or Sam) so this remained strictly about Deans general sexuality rather than turning into a specific ship debate :)

Edited February 27, 2017 by Wayward Son

[MysteryGuest]

People are free to see what they want to see in the show and it's performances, but forcing those perceptions on the cast is crossing the line.  Jensen has expressed his feelings on his portrayal of Dean numerous times, but it doesn't stop people from harassing him at cons when they know exactly what response they're going to get from him.  At this point, it's just deliberate and obnoxious.  

As for the comments from directors, writers, etc., they also know the makeup of the SPN audience, and don't want to alienate anyone.  SPN fans come in every variety and that's great, and no one, including Jensen, cares who fans choose to ship with whom in their fantasy life, but it needs to stay there.  Some fans, and I think it's a very small group, don't seem to get that.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

My opinion on this depends on what you consider throwing shade at the actor. If you are referring to those people who have lambasted him by marking him as homophobic etc then I'd totally agree!

Yes I'm partially referring to posts I've read online from fans stating that Jensen was homophobic for saying that Destiel didn't exist and also from posts reacting to his stating that Dean was just a fan of Dr. Sexy and that he wasn't crushing on him. I feel that calling him homophobic ( not referring to you! ) in response to his statement on how he portrays his character is unfair. My response to your post was because you stated that Jensen wasn't doing himself any favors in his portrayal; I felt that you were criticizing him in the same vein as I've seen in other posts ( not here! )

3 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

SPN fans come in every variety and that's great, and no one, including Jensen, cares who fans choose to ship with whom in their fantasy life, but it needs to stay there.  Some fans, and I think it's a very small group, don't seem to get that.

So much agreement to this. There's no reason to confront the actors at the cons with what the fans feel should be on screen.

[Wayward Son]

5 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Yes I'm partially referring to posts I've read online from fans stating that Jensen was homophobic for saying that Destiel didn't exist and also from posts reacting to his stating that Dean was just a fan of Dr. Sexy and that he wasn't crushing on him. I feel that calling him homophobic ( not referring to you! ) in response to his statement on how he portrays his character is unfair. My response to your post was because you stated that Jensen wasn't doing himself any favors in his portrayal; I felt that you were criticizing him in the same vein as I've seen in other posts ( not here! )

Sorry I didn't get across my point corrctly! I completely disagree with the entitled idea that anyone has the right to call him homophobic because heaven forbid he doesn't ship their ship. 

I was just referring to the idea that many fans have (regardless of ship) that there have been times when the character has come off on screen as less than heterosexual. 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Wayward Son

[RulerofallIsurvey]

9 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

However, in my experience people (men or women) tend to act differently around those they have an actual crush on than they do around people they feel nothing but complete friendship for. There's a difference between the abstract "he's a good looking guy" and "he's sooooooo handsome". There's a difference between friendly gestures of afffection between friends and the more awkward ones displayed around someone you really like.  Deans behaviour just came across as more of the latter than the former for me. 

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

I was just referring to the idea that many fans have (regardless of ship) that there have been times when the character has come off on screen as less than heterosexual. 

Eh.  I think Dean's behavior toward Dr. Sexy could easily be explained by "He's a good looking guy" and being star-struck.  It doesn't have to have anything to do with Dean really liking him (in a way romantic, sexual way) at all or being less than heterosexual.  That was my point.  (Fwiw, my father, grand-father, and great-uncles used to make comments during movies/discussions about how such-and-such an actor was good looking or male singers were really good.  And none of us ever questioned their sexuality.  Maybe it was different back in the day?)

If you choose to interpret it your way, that's fine.  I don't have a problem with that.  What I have a problem with is people who insist that (the romantic, sexual way) is the correct way to interpret the scenes, despite the actor's attempts to explain what he was trying to convey - and completely disregarding the actor's motivation.  

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Eh.  I think Dean's behavior toward Dr. Sexy could easily be explained by "He's a good looking guy" and being star-struck.  It doesn't have to have anything to do with Dean really liking him (in a way romantic, sexual way) at all or being less than heterosexual.  That was my point.  (Fwiw, my father, grand-father, and great-uncles used to make comments during movies/discussions about how such-and-such an actor was good looking or male singers were really good.  And none of us ever questioned their sexuality.  Maybe it was different back in the day?)

I actually thought that Dean's behavior towards Dr. Sexy was more in a " he's so awesome" fanboy kind of way. In Changing Channels he seemed somewhat awestruck at all of the characters that they encountered but his Dr. Sexy reaction was more like idol worship to me.

3 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

If you choose to interpret it your way, that's fine.  I don't have a problem with that.  What I have a problem with is people who insist that (the romantic, sexual way) is the correct way to interpret the scenes, despite the actor's attempts to explain what he was trying to convey - and completely disregarding the actor's motivation.  

Yes! This was my point also.

[Wayward Son]

As this is mostly totally subjective (and this thread isn't meant to be for debates anyway) I'm gonna bow out of the conversation here. 

It was great hearing everyone's thoughts on this, and if I insulted anyone at any point I'm truly sorry. It was not my intent.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

As this is mostly totally subjective (and this thread isn't meant to be for debates anyway) I'm gonna bow out of the conversation here. 

It was great hearing everyone's thoughts on this, and if I insulted anyone at any point I'm truly sorry. It was not my intent.

Debates are healthy! FWIW in regards to my response I didn't feel insulted; it was partially my knee jerk reaction to defend Dean (and Jensen).

Edited February 27, 2017 by DeeDee79

[MysteryGuest]

No insult at all, Wayward Son.  The whole point is that we all can and do see things differently.  But in that vein, Jensen is also able to see his own performances as he intended them, whether or not everyone else saw them the same way.

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

The whole point is that we all can and do see things differently.

And we should accept that others may not share the same perceptions and what seems patently obvious to one may seem completely different to another.  

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

And we should accept that others may not share the same perceptions and what seems patently obvious to one may seem completely different to another.  

True dat! :)

[Wayward Son]

23 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

No insult at all, Wayward Son.  The whole point is that we all can and do see things differently.  But in that vein, Jensen is also able to see his own performances as he intended them, whether or not everyone else saw them the same way.

I lied and I'm going to say one last thing. Just because I want to clarify my position. 

As I said earlier I've seen some people express the view (not necessarily in this conversation) that Jensen might feel his acting skills are being insulted by fans putting something into them he didn't intend. 

The point I was trying to make is that IMO (and the opinion of Edlund and Scriggia) some of Jensen's scenes to date have had an ambiguous note. I wasn't saying that my interpretation was the absolute correct one just that the ambiguity is there. 

Therefore, if (and I say if because who knows maybe  this doesn't bother him in the slightest) the idea of people potentially seeing a bi-sexual Dean bothers Jensen, then, for his own sake, he may wish to consider his performances and how he can get rid of that ambiguity. 

Edit: If (key word here as I don't claim to have an insight into his mind) he doesn't wish to do so because he feels it would compromise how he plays Dean. I don't think it is fair for him (if the fans who think he considers fans who interpret Dean as bi as insulting to his skills are correct) to display ire with fans for picking up an interpretation even a writer and director associated with the show have picked up. 

And I do think getting rid of it is possible. For instance with the exception of a few Wincest fans (and even then they tend to see Dean as Sam's exception) I've never seen any fan make a serious argument Sam is bisexual the way fans have with Dean. 

And now I really will bow out of the discussion. I just wanted to be clear that I was never trying to argue the intolerant "Deans bi, Jensens an idiot and anyone who see it differently to me is wrong". 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Wayward Son

[RulerofallIsurvey]

9 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Therefore, if (and I say if because who knows maybe  this doesn't bother him in the slightest) the idea of people potentially seeing a bi-sexual Dean bothers then for his own sake he may wish to consider his performances and how he can get rid of that ambiguity. 

And I do think getting rid of it is possible.

I disagree.  For the reasons I've already stated.  If your mind is not wired to work to think that way; it just won't.  So telling Jensen to get rid of the ambiguity, when he doesn't see any, won't make any difference.  Either to his portrayal or to the audience who interprets it differently than he intends.  

Edited February 27, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey
who not to

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

I wasn't saying that my interpretation was the absolute correct one just that the ambiguity is there. 

Therefore, if (and I say if because who knows maybe  this doesn't bother him in the slightest) the idea of people potentially seeing a bi-sexual Dean bothers then for his own sake he may wish to consider his performances and how he can get rid of that ambiguity. 

But that's the point I was trying to make. It seems to be absolutely clear to you that there's an ambiguity to Jensen's performance.  It seems equally clear to me that Dean is  heterosexual, whether or not he has a crush on an actor.  It's all in our perceptions, and Jensen shouldn't have to change his performance because of something you (or others) see, when he obviously doesn't see it himself, or thinks this is true to Dean's character.

Sam and Dean are completely different characters, and the way they relate to others are completely different.  They *should* be giving different performances.  

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Therefore, if (and I say if because who knows maybe  this doesn't bother him in the slightest) the idea of people potentially seeing a bi-sexual Dean bothers then for his own sake he may wish to consider his performances and how he can get rid of that ambiguity. 

But I think the point is that not everyone sees that ambiguity you speak of.  I personally don't.  I don't think Jensen or the show have ever done anything but portray Dean as completely heterosexual.  He's only ever been shown to have relationships with women, and he constantly talks about and checks out women.  I've never once seen him check out any men in a sexual way.  I thought he was taken aback a bit when Aaron came on to him in that bar, but I personally was happy with his reaction.  He didn't freak out or lash out or act like an asshole.  But I also didn't get any vibe that he was interested in Aaron in any way.  Again, opinions vary.

[Wayward Son]

I edited my post slightly to address your concerns :) . But of course without actually talking to the actors themselves of course it's all "ifs" and "what ifs"  :)

Edited February 27, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

So telling Jensen to get rid of the ambiguity, when he doesn't see any, won't make any difference.

 

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

 It's all in our perceptions, and Jensen shouldn't have to change his performance because of something you (or others) see, when he obviously doesn't see it himself, or thinks this is true to Dean's character.

Perfectly stated @RulerofallIsurvey and @ahrtee. The portrayal of the character is up to the actor; he shouldn't alter his performance because fans may see something different than what he intended to come across on screen.

[MysteryGuest]

16 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

For instance with the exception of a few Wincest fans (and even then they tend to see Dean as Sam's exception) I've never seen any fan make a serious argument Sam is bisexual the way fans have with Dean. 

I think Jensen gets the short end of the stick in some of these ships.  He's in a virtual tug of war between the Destiel/Cockles fans and the Wincest/J2 fans.  Jensen is just the pawn it seems during these battles.  It's like he's not an entity unto himself.  I find it more than a little bizarre.  

I remember reading a series of reviews of the show years ago and the reviewer always talked about how Dean flirted with everyone...female and male.  That he was just a very sexual being, and he used it to his advantage with both sexes, but on a subliminal level.  I can't remember where I even read this anymore, but maybe that's what people see and react to.  

[Wayward Son]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think Jensen gets the short end of the stick in some of these ships.  He's in a virtual tug of war between the Destiel/Cockles fans and the Wincest/J2 fans.  Jensen is just the pawn it seems during these battles.  It's like he's not an entity unto himself.  I find it more than a little bizarre.  

I remember reading a series of reviews of the show years ago and the reviewer always talked about how Dean flirted with everyone...female and male.  That he was just a very sexual being, and he used it to his advantage with both sexes, but on a subliminal level.  I can't remember where I even read this anymore, but maybe that's what people see and react to.  

That could very well be it :) .

Honestly, I think I've just been wording myself very badly and coming across more intolerant than I really meant to sound like. The Point I've really been trying to make (but badly) is that (for some) the ambiguity is there and not just for fans. Therefore, just as those who see it should respect Jensen (and fans who agree with his viewpoint) and not call him names. Likewise those who don't shouldnt just automatically jump to "they're deluded and insulting Jensens acting skills".

Edited February 27, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I thought he was taken aback a bit when Aaron came on to him in that bar, but I personally was happy with his reaction.  He didn't freak out or lash out or act like an asshole.

Me too. I thought that they were going to have him react like a homophobic asshat but I was glad that they didn't go there.

[catrox14]

If a director/writer makes comments about Dean maybe finding love in other places, on DVD commentary it makes me think that at least ONE writer has given the idea of a not strictly heterosexual Dean some thought. Maybe they never went to Jensen with those ideas and he just played that scene with Aaron for the comedy of it as a goofy meet-cute that Dean thought a guy had a crush on him but Dean didn't leave it just that. He did report it to Sam as being his gay thing like twice.  And I personally thought Dean's ego was a little bruised that Aaron didn't actually have a crush on him.  It could be Dean's ego at play but I do wonder why the Dean who says "I don't swing that way" be even a tiny bit disappointed that  he wasn't Aaron's "gay" thing.

I dunno, I think Dean had more than a "fanboy" crush on Dr. Sexy. He was totally rapt by Dr. Sexy's make out scene in the elevator and he said he knew what made Dr. Sexy, sexy. That always struck me as a little different than a guy saying " that guy is good looking".  It's possible it was being played for laughs that this macho guy could dare admit that he finds this handsome doctor sexy but I dunno. I personally thought there is room for the idea that Dr. Sexy may have piqued Dean's sexual interest for a hot minute.  Or alternatively he admired Dr. Sexy and wanted to emulate him.

 

I don't know what this says but as I've mentioned before my FIRST moment of this show without any knowledge of Destiel was Dean/Cas reuniting in Purgatory.  And my only thought was, "Damn those men really love each other. And are they together as in a couple?".  I know I joke about shipping everything but the reality is that I don't ship every thing ever. But that scene has always struck me.  Maybe that relationship is so complex with so many different levels that it's undefinable. IMO, it's more than brothers, more than brothers-in-arms, more than BFFs. They sure as fuck love each other is all I know.

At any rate, the finished product on screen is not solely on the actors either. Every single thing that ends up on the screen is there because someone in the production made a choice for it to be there. If those choices in acting, editing, staging, whatever leave some in the audience (not only the "delusional" shippers be they Wincest, Destiel, etc) wondering what's up,  maybe it's not just on the audience.

But that's just me. 

[Wayward Son]

Thanks @catrox14

I think i (finally) expressed myself right in my last post! There's nothing worse than trying to say something and just not being able to find the right words to express it and your point comes across all wrong haha.

Thanks @RulerofallIsurvey @DeeDee79 @MysteryGuest and @ahrtee for being patient during my mini meltdown.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

25 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

remember reading a series of reviews of the show years ago and the reviewer always talked about how Dean flirted with everyone...female and male.  That he was just a very sexual being, and he used it to his advantage with both sexes, but on a subliminal level.  I can't remember where I even read this anymore, but maybe that's what people see and react to.  

That's so funny. I had written a big long thing earlier explaining that I have seen Dean exactly this way ^^^^^ but just didn't bother to post it.

That is exactly how I've read Dean forever and why for me the advent of a Bi!Dean wouldn't be particularly surprising or out of left field. Maybe Jensen just plays Dean with that undercurrent of sexually charged energy especially early on. That Dean uses his sexuality(not sexual orientation) to his advantage on the offensive and defensive.  It's almost an armor with Dean to a degree IMO.

[Mick Lady]

56 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

And now I really will bow out of the discussion. I just wanted to be clear that I was never trying to argue the intolerant "Deans bi, Jensens an idiot and anyone who see it differently to me is wrong". 

Ah Wayward, don't feel bad! I'm just super sensitive because of my sister and her wife, along with todays climate. All's good here!!

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Maybe Jensen just plays Dean with that undercurrent of sexually charged energy especially early on. That Dean uses his sexuality(not sexual orientation) to his advantage on the offensive and defensive.  It's almost an armor with Dean to a degree IMO.

I can see the viewpoint of seeing Dean as being unconsciously sexual to the point of where he flirts with both women and men alike on autopilot because it's in his nature. What I don't see is Jensen stating that he doesn't portray Dean as bi and fans calling him a homophobe because he isn't down with Destiel.

Edited February 27, 2017 by DeeDee79

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I can see the viewpoint of seeing Dean as being unconsciously sexual to the point of where he flirts with both women and men alike on autopilot because it's in his nature. What I don't see is Jensen stating that he doesn't portray Dean as bi and fans calling him a homophobe because he isn't down with Destiel.

And nothing I've said is disagreeing with that. I'm leery that you're implying that I think that's all well and good and I'm surely NOT doing that. I think no matter how Jensen answers the question someone is going to be on his ass.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

And nothing I've said is disagreeing with that. I'm leery that you're implying that I think that's all well and good and I'm surely NOT doing that. I think no matter how Jensen answers the question someone is going to be on his ass.

And I don't think that you are implying that. I'm simply stating that while it's one thing to want to see a character in one light the onus shouldn't be on the actor if he doesn't agree with the interpretation of the fans.

[catrox14]

Just now, DeeDee79 said:

And I don't think that you are implying that. I'm simply stating that while it's one thing to want to see a character in one light the onus shouldn't be on the actor if he doesn't agree with the interpretation of the fans.

Okay. Well I'm not suggesting that either.

[Mick Lady]

For me, one thing is very clear to me about Dean. His first love is pie. All others get in line.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

For me, one thing is very clear to me about Dean. His first love is pie. All others get in line.

Indeed!

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Okay. Well I'm not suggesting that either.

I was basically agreeing with you in regards to the viewpoint that Dean may be seen as flirty in his interactions whether it may be male or female due to his personality but also stating that it doesn't mean that Jensen is choosing to play him as anything other than hetero.

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Mick Lady said:

For me, one thing is very clear to me about Dean. His first love is pie. All others get in line.

You know what's sad?  I think Mary's return has impacted his love of pie :(

[SueB]

Jensen Ackles aka Dean Winchester -- the little black dress of Supernatural.  He goes with everything.

I'll cede all my opinions to @RulerofallIsurvey  -- she seems to have me covered on this topic.

Edited February 27, 2017 by SueB

[AwesomO4000]

7 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I should clarify that I don't ship them and purely enjoy them as friends. I've always enjoyed the rare Sam and Cas scenes we got and I'd include their scenes in Reading is Fundamental and First Born as some of my favourites on the show. 

Oh, I know. I was just teasing. I really enjoy their friendship as well on the show.

I also happen to enjoy Sastiel, too, for fun - not that I see it on the show mind you... though maybe Sam also wouldn't mind my enjoyment: "You know, how about Sastiel? Samstiel?" Don't worry Sam, I ship you and Cas sometimes. ; ) . (But I also ship Sam with Jodi too, and Eileen... though nothing domestic. I'm of the mind that Sam's longing for domestic days are over - and good riddance. I'm also not averse to Destiel either or other ships... I'm not picky. Though I draw the line at Sam/Lucifer and Dean/Alastair.)

[SueB]

Ooooh  .... I have an unpopular opinion.... my favorite ships are Crackships.  Ones that will not happen but bygum... they create a little heat IMO:

- Samwena (Sam and Rowena.... the size sight gag juxtaposed with equally clever minds) .... when he told her to sit down?  Ahem.
- Dean/Donna - I just want them to spend an afternoon drinking, eating powdered sugar donuts, and making horrible puns.  I don't need sex, I just need them TOGETHER FOR HOURS
- Megstiel ... I will go down with this ship.  I don't care if she's a demon, he saw her as his 'thorny beauty' and I think he might have eventually moved some furniture with her
- Dean/Abbadon .... hatesex only and I'm going to hell for that....

There are others... to be sure... but those are the ones that consistently come to mind....

[catrox14]

Just now, SueB said:

- Samwena (Sam and Rowena.... the size sight gag juxtaposed with equally clever minds) .... when he told her to sit down?  Ahem.

I have been beating the Samwena ship since the Werther Project . It's wrong but I swear....there is something there

I ship Dean/Donna so hard it's not funny . Like I would not be unhappy if the ended up together

[rue721]

14 minutes ago, SueB said:

- Samwena (Sam and Rowena.... the size sight gag juxtaposed with equally clever minds) .... when he told her to sit down?  Ahem.

I love this crack!ship so much. So so much.

How is it that the character that Sam has the most chemistry with is Rowena?! So weird, so inappropriate, so hilarious.

ETA and I contend that in a bizarre kind of way, Rowena is actually totally Sam's type. Snarky, bitchy, lively, has a good head on her shoulders...

And now I'm imagining if she had been his college girlfriend instead of Jessica. That would have really changed some things!

Edited February 27, 2017 by rue721

[Mick Lady]

47 minutes ago, SueB said:

Jensen Ackles aka Dean Winchester -- the little black dress of Supernatural.  He goes with everything.

I'll cede all my opinions to @RulerofallIsurvey  -- she seems to have me covered on this topic.

That is one KICK-ASS post! I'm on my knees, really, on my knees!

[auntvi]

49 minutes ago, SueB said:

Megstiel ... I will go down with this ship.  I don't care if she's a demon, he saw her as his 'thorny beauty' and I think he might have eventually moved some furniture with her

I love that relationship too. It's definitely my favorite Meg and an interesting Cas.

[Mick Lady]

59 minutes ago, auntvi said:

I love that relationship too. It's definitely my favorite Meg and an interesting Cas.

Oh Chuck! I thought I was the only one! I LOVE Meg! "Moved some furniture with her" has became my new favorite line!!!

You all are just...too much. No wonder I love this place!

*move some furniture with her, heh!*

[Myrelle]

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think Jensen gets the short end of the stick in some of these ships.  He's in a virtual tug of war between the Destiel/Cockles fans and the Wincest/J2 fans.  Jensen is just the pawn it seems during these battles.  It's like he's not an entity unto himself.  I find it more than a little bizarre.  

I remember reading a series of reviews of the show years ago and the reviewer always talked about how Dean flirted with everyone...female and male.  That he was just a very sexual being, and he used it to his advantage with both sexes, but on a subliminal level.  I can't remember where I even read this anymore, but maybe that's what people see and react to.  

ITA with the first paragraph, and I find the bolded part of that review fascinating, and IA that it is exactly what people see and react to. And the fact that the actor who portrays Dean is also Erotica Personified for many of both genders only aids this aspect of Dean's characterization. ;-)

Edited February 27, 2017 by Myrelle

[Wayward Son]

4 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Oh, I know. I was just teasing. I really enjoy their friendship as well on the show.

I also happen to enjoy Sastiel, too, for fun - not that I see it on the show mind you... though maybe Sam also wouldn't mind my enjoyment: "You know, how about Sastiel? Samstiel?" Don't worry Sam, I ship you and Cas sometimes. ; ) . (But I also ship Sam with Jodi too, and Eileen... though nothing domestic. I'm of the mind that Sam's longing for domestic days are over - and good riddance. I'm also not averse to Destiel either or other ships... I'm not picky. Though I draw the line at Sam/Lucifer and Dean/Alastair.)

Hahaha yes Sam's reaction to the whole thing was hilarious. He's just so chill and like "who cares if person think that... now I wonder what they call me and Cas"

And yeah I totally agree that Dean/Alastair and Sam/Lucifer are much harder to ship due to their history on the show.

4 hours ago, SueB said:

Ooooh  .... I have an unpopular opinion.... my favorite ships are Crackships.  Ones that will not happen but bygum... they create a little heat IMO:

- Samwena (Sam and Rowena.... the size sight gag juxtaposed with equally clever minds) .... when he told her to sit down?  Ahem.
- Dean/Donna - I just want them to spend an afternoon drinking, eating powdered sugar donuts, and making horrible puns.  I don't need sex, I just need them TOGETHER FOR HOURS
- Megstiel ... I will go down with this ship.  I don't care if she's a demon, he saw her as his 'thorny beauty' and I think he might have eventually moved some furniture with her
- Dean/Abbadon .... hatesex only and I'm going to hell for that....

There are others... to be sure... but those are the ones that consistently come to mind....

Haha this post made me chuckle <333

3 hours ago, rue721 said:

I love this crack!ship so much. So so much.

How is it that the character that Sam has the most chemistry with is Rowena?! So weird, so inappropriate, so hilarious.

ETA and I contend that in a bizarre kind of way, Rowena is actually totally Sam's type. Snarky, bitchy, lively, has a good head on her shoulders...

And now I'm imagining if she had been his college girlfriend instead of Jessica. That would have really changed some things!

Oh man could you imagine the meeting with Crowley? "Hi son, this is your new father in law Sam" hahahahaa

[DeeDee79]

10 hours ago, SueB said:

Dean/Donna - I just want them to spend an afternoon drinking, eating powdered sugar donuts, and making horrible puns.  I don't need sex, I just need them TOGETHER FOR HOURS

I ship them too!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 hours ago, SueB said:

I'll cede all my opinions to @RulerofallIsurvey  -- she seems to have me covered on this topic.

Wow!  I'm so honored!  *fanning myself voraciously while nervously bowing repeatedly* "I'd like to thank the Academy..." What? Hey! *rest of the forum ushers me aside* 'That'll do, Ruler.  That'll do.'  "Oh, okay." grumble, grumble, grumble.  ;)