S02.E09: Smart Power

[NoSpam]

Home baked bread?

[boes]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

No.  They barely have oranges themselves, and then, only rarely.

Good question @Kel Varnsen, what would they have?  They obviously don't have much electrical power, and whatever oil they still have from Texas, etc. they need to keep, since they closed down all nuclear power and can't get oil from the middle east or Russia to run plants or factories in mass. 

Hell, they don't even have enough wheat "This will be the last wheat bread of the year."

Maybe confiscated money and jewels?  Gold from Fort Knox which they now control?

I wonder if, like ISIS did in Syria, if they're not covertly, or not covertly, selling off the contents of the Met, Guggenheim, the Washington museums, etc., since I doubt Gilead has any interest in art that doesn't fall within what they find acceptable.

[marinw]

Do Luke, Moira. and Erin have work permits? Are they allowed to have jobs? The laws regarding refugees working in Canada are fraught and vary with circumstances.

Edited June 20, 2018 by marinw

[marny]

On 6/16/2018 at 3:24 PM, Umbelina said:

 

On 6/16/2018 at 3:05 PM, millennium said:

1 hour ago, Anosmia said:

 

I'm really curious about the new two-state US. Who are the leaders?

I would assume, since they kept the constitution, they had elections for President and VP. 

 

 

Well, if they got rid of the electoral college as suggested above, then at least something good actually came from this horror. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by marny

[Umbelina]

Did anyone ever find the "inside the episode" for this one?  So far, it's the only episode without one, and this one I really wanted to see.

[AnswersWanted]

Hulu has the insider clip listed in its’ usual spot, at least for me. It’s the last one uploaded. 

[Umbelina]

19 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

Hulu has the insider clip listed in its’ usual spot, at least for me. It’s the last one uploaded. 

I'm not seeing it.  I looked last night too.

My screen shows all of the EXCEPT Smart Power. I've had other issues with the Hulu site.  Very odd.

Found it on You Tube just now though.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Umbelina

[Clanstarling]

@Umbelina, On my computer it's showing up under clips (I don't know if that's where it usually is, I've never watched them before, so you may already know that.)

On my smart tv app, it's also under Clips. I don't have the phone app, so I don't know where it is there.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Umbelina]

I'm on a PC.

For some reason that seems to cause several issues, including finding the episode when it airs.  It doesn't automatically show up, even with refresh.  The past few weeks it showed up only if I clicked "recently added" but this week that didn't work.  I can't remember what I finally clicked on to make it show up.  Wait, I know what I did, I clicked on last weeks, then "Handmaid's Tale" and THEN it showed up.

Phone aps also seem to update quickly as well.

It's seriously odd.  I don't have this issue on any other PC TV channels.  I don't think it's me, I think it's Hulu.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Umbelina

[Clanstarling]

13 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I'm on a PC.

For some reason that seems to cause several issues, including finding the episode when it airs.  It doesn't automatically show up, even with refresh.  The past few weeks it showed up only if I clicked "recently added" but this week that didn't work.  I can't remember what I finally clicked on to make it show up.  Wait, I know what I did, I clicked on last weeks, then "Handmaid's Tale" and THEN it showed up.

Phone aps also seem to update quickly as well.

It's seriously odd.  I don't have this issue on any other PC TV channels.  I don't think it's me, I think it's Hulu.

 

You might want to clear your browser cache (history). I manage a website, this is a "fix" that usually works for my users when refreshing doesn't.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Clanstarling

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, marinw said:

Do Luke, Moira. and Erin have work permits? Are they alloed to have jobs? The laws regarding refugees working in Canada are fraught and vary with circumstances.

I seem to remember that they were given a lot of these things when they sought asylum. It definitely wasn't part of just the regular immigration process for them. But yes, ordinarily it's super hard for Americans to move to Canada-you can't just pick up and move there. I was denied immigration to Canada because of my health issues, for instance. 

[Umbelina]

14 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

You might want to clear your browser cache (history). I manage a website, this is a "fix" that usually works for my users when refreshing doesn't.

Tried that.

It's a strange glitch than only happens on Hulu for me.

At least You Tube had the clip.  ;)

Just now, mamadrama said:

I seem to remember that they were given a lot of these things when they sought asylum. It definitely wasn't part of just the regular immigration process for them. But yes, ordinarily it's super hard for Americans to move to Canada-you can't just pick up and move there. I was denied immigration to Canada because of my health issues, for instance. 

It wouldn't stop them from interviewing and getting paid for books, or speaking gigs though.  I get why Luke is staying in Canada, but it sure seems like others would be speaking out, if not there, than in other countries.  I'd imagine the demand would be HUGE, especially now that those letters are out.  It's the age of the internet where are the bloggers?

[mamadrama]

9 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

It wouldn't stop them from interviewing and getting paid for books, or speaking gigs though.  I get why Luke is staying in Canada, but it sure seems like others would be speaking out, if not there, than in other countries.  I'd imagine the demand would be HUGE, especially now that those letters are out.  It's the age of the internet where are the bloggers?

Right, I was just answering the question about the work permit part of immigrating to Canada. They would certainly be free to do interviews. 

[marinw]

43 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I was denied immigration to Canada because of my health issues, for instance. 

I'm sorry to hear that! We Canadians sometimes aren't as nice as we seem. But immigrating is one thing, escaping a brutal regime is another. I get the impression that the Gilead's refgugees issues are  mostly psychological more than physical.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Tried that.

It's a strange glitch than only happens on Hulu for me.

At least You Tube had the clip.  ;)

It's hard to know how computer savvy people are, so I was in customer support mode. Forgive me if I seemed condescending.

[bijoux]

On 19. 06. 2018. at 6:53 AM, LittleRed84 said:

She never has a guard follow her around Gilead. She comes and goes as she pleases. Her and June went to the hospital, on walks, to the Putnams, etc. 

The handmaids are guarded because both 1- they are prized possessions that try to escape or kill them selves 

2- one of them just set off a bomb

 

The wives don’t seem to require guarding. I thought her wandering around portrayed how little Fred values her. How men are the priority and she is a decoration that knits. 

I think Serena not being followed in Canada had mostly to do with the image the Waterfords were supposed to present. Oh noes, the wife is right there, she absconds reading and writing for endless knitting and nuh-uh, no way is she followed.  For that purpose I believe only they and Nick went, and Nick was either with Fred at that time, or doing his own thing as he often does.

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, mamadrama said:

 But yes, ordinarily it's super hard for Americans to move to Canada-you can't just pick up and move there. I was denied immigration to Canada because of my health issues, for instance. 

On the other hand in the world of the show Canada has lost their biggest trading partner and is suffering from the same declining birth rates as everyone else. I can totally see them needing to boost their population of adults (who can work) fast. So i can easily see Canada loosening a bunch of our immigration laws.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

It's hard to know how computer savvy people are, so I was in customer support mode. Forgive me if I seemed condescending.

No, you weren't at all!  Thanks for the ideas.  From what I noticed on twitter, this doesn't seem to be an issue with tablets either.  Very odd.

8 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

On the other hand in the world of the show Canada has lost their biggest trading partner and is suffering from the same declining birth rates as everyone else. I can totally see them needing to boost their population of adults (who can work) fast. So i can easily see Canada loosening a bunch of our immigration laws.

Interesting idea.  Also, some of the escapees are Handmaids, so fertile, and may fall in love and marry a Canadian or become citizens themselves.  I'd bet Canada is also looking for practical, scientific, humane ways to help with the fertility crisis as well.

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

I think Serena not being followed in Canada had mostly to do with the image the Waterfords were supposed to present. Oh noes, the wife is right there, she absconds reading and writing for endless knitting and nuh-uh, no way is she followed.  For that purpose I believe only they and Nick went, and Nick was either with Fred at that time, or doing his own thing as he often does.

Serena did have guards with her in Canada.  In the scene in the botanical garden, right after she was given her "itinerary" there are two Gilead guardians with Serena and the Canadian woman.  They follow them pretty closely, within about 10-12 feet, so presumably within earshot. 

[lynny]

In the real world, today, it took Justin Trudeau 2 full days to publicly denounce US practice of forcibly removing children from their parents. And it took that long because he’s dealing with an unstable and unpredictable ruler that can turn on him with no notice while he’s in he middle of negotiating the most important trade deal for his country. Canada really doesn’t want to lose the NAFTA deal. 

So imagine having to take the moral stand that Canada would completely cut off all trade with the US. It would be economically devastating. But, it seems the Canadian government did that in the show. All while taking in an unprecedented number of migrants walking across the border seeking asylum. I can see why the Canadians in the show want to negotiate trade. Their economy must be fucked. But when shit for real, they walked away. So good for them.

And I did love that the senior officials sent to negotiate included a woman and a gay man. It gives me hope that even in this dystopian world, Canada’s default foreign policy includes throwing low-level shade straight at the US. 

One more thing to add: it infuriates me that Canada is getting this show 4 days later than the US. Every week, I promise not to spoil myself and every week I’m reading the Vulture recap by Thursday morning. So annoying. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by lynny

[Token]

I felt bad for Nick in this episode.  I was expecting him to defect while in Canada.  But, after meeting Luke and being asked to pass on a message to June, Nick felt like he had to return to Gilead and pass along the info to June.  And now he's probably going to die for it (just my speculation), as Eden knows about the letters and will probably on him.  Poor Nick.  

I really had hope that Serna Joy might do the same, defect while in Canada.  But her parting message to June about not staying on after the birth made me realise that wasn't going to happen.  Any hope I had for her is now gone.  Anything bad that happens to her is totally deserved and I really hope she gets what's coming to her.  Add me to the list of people who laughed like crazy when Serena was presented with that picture list of her itinerary!!  That was freaking brilliant!

[Kel Varnsen]

On 21/06/2018 at 2:34 AM, lynny said:

In the real world, today, it took Justin Trudeau 2 full days to publicly denounce US practice of forcibly removing children from their parents. And it took that long because he’s dealing with an unstable and unpredictable ruler that can turn on him with no notice while he’s in he middle of negotiating the most important trade deal for his country. Canada really doesn’t want to lose the NAFTA deal. 

So imagine having to take the moral stand that Canada would completely cut off all trade with the US. It would be economically devastating. But, it seems the Canadian government did that in the show. All while taking in an unprecedented number of migrants walking across the border seeking asylum. I can see why the Canadians in the show want to negotiate trade. Their economy must be fucked. But when shit for real, they walked away. So good for them.

I think I am just going to tell myself that this was never actually a trade/diplomatic meeting for Canada and more like a joint Canada/US intelligence gathering mission. Canada gets some intel on what is going on with Gilead and who runs the show and the CIA gets a chance to try and flip Serena.

Because really either way Canada's economy would be boned. Even if they set up trade with Gilead most of the industries that the US had are gone (just off the top of my head no popular US entertainment being produced, publishing is gone as is fashion/clothing, and I doubt any high tech internet type companies are still based in the US). And I don't think the Gilead bread coupon has the same kind of power in the global economy that the US dollar did.

Plus in season 1 they said there was a trade embargo. Not sure Canada would want to risk sanctions from other countries by trading everything they have for whatever crap Gilead is making.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I think I am just going to tell myself that this was never actually a trade/diplomatic meeting for Canada and more like a joint Canada/US intelligence gathering mission. Canada gets some intel on what is going on with Gilead and who runs the show and the CIA gets a chance to try and flip Serena.

Because really either way Canada's economy would be boned. Even if they set up trade with Gilead most of the industries that the US had are gone (just off the top of my head no popular US entertainment being produced, publishing is gone as is fashion/clothing, and I doubt any high tech internet type companies are still based in the US). And I don't think the Gilead bread coupon has the same kind of power in the global economy that the US dollar did.

Plus in season 1 they said there was a trade embargo. Not sure Canada would want to risk sanctions from other countries by trading everything they have for whatever crap Gilead is making.

Yes. 

I've always thought that Gilead, and especially Fred, were wildly optimistic about what the meeting in Canada could mean.  They are desperate and were grasping at imaginary straws.

The clues are all there, no meeting in the Capital, no real pomp and circumstance, meeting with a lowly representative group rather than the PM, no names used, or agenda announced.

After the first meeting Fred seemed like a fool to me (and I think to Serena as well from one expression on her face) when he says that everything is on the table, even getting the refugees back.  Canada was stringing him along, and there are several things they might have wanted from Gilead, like information about the "adopted children" and just all kinds of general information, they might have wanted to get more open communication with those trapped in Gilead.  I could also have been for spying purposes, and to set that CIA guy up to meet with Serena (hence, the female handler just dropped her at the hotel, and it's even possible Canada kept Serena's guards busy for a few minutes so he could have his meeting with her.  Canada may have also wanted to calm tensions on the border.

There is no way Canada was going to trade with Gilead, not a chance.  That was Fred being an idiot.

[LeGrandElephant]

Great episode! Much better than the last few. 

 

“We are guests of the Canadian government” - next line should have been “then let me talk to someone in the Canadian government!”  

 

I’m only partway through the episode, but I’d like to see Serena defect to Canada (or the remaining US or whatever), thinking she’ll get treated as a special hero/victim, only to find that after she tells them everything she knows, she gets tried as a war criminal. And now that I’ve seen the scene with her and Joel from Parenthood, why didn’t he give her a phone number or something in case she changed her mind? 

 

Why is Luke speaking only in the past tense when he said Waterford raped his wife? For all he knows, he’s still raping her every month - does Luke somehow know she’s pregnant? Ah, I guess not, based on the conversation with Nick. 

 

Luke is hotheaded and should think more carefully about the situation. How about asking Nick if he can help Luke rescue June, after he said he was her friend, instead of yelling at him to get out? 

 

Not clear what Luke witnessed directly, but has Moira given interviews to international papers? Has she tried to go public with the fact that she knows that the guy visiting Canada literally has a sex/surrogate slave who would like to escape, and who she can put a name and face to? I fail to see how the letters “could go boom” (and then apparently did) more than Moira’s first person testimony. Also something I just thought of - will the women who wrote those letters who are still in Gilead be in trouble? Did they publish them with names redacted? I bet not, since people are trying to find their loved ones. Was there a letter from June in there? 

 

Will Serena’s having seen June’s husband with a picture of their family make her start to see June as a person? Will she change her mind about her right to keep her enslaved and steal her baby? 

[LeGrandElephant]

This is the first episode where I’m pretty sure Nick is actually a decent regular guy. I was always suspicious before. But he really did the right things, at risk to himself, both physically and emotionally. He seemed to really respect June as a person with her own life it seemed like if they escape he might be willing to let her go for her own happiness and not try to hold onto her or the baby. 

[LeGrandElephant]

I have mixed feelings about a possible Serena “redemption”. Emiotionally I think she’s too far gone and I only want to see her punished. But plot-wise, having her turn sides seems like one of the only ways to get June and her kids out of Gilead, and I’m really tired of seeing her there. So, I am hoping that Serena changes sides and helps June and Hannah and the baby escape to Canada. Then, once Serena tells US/Canadian intelligence all she knows, I want to see her tried for war crimes, with June giving evidence against her and no one on her side. And then next season can maybe focus on some other handmaids and on June et al trying to deal with things and help the resistance from Canada. I don’t want to see everyone still stuck in the same positions for another season. 

[Beatriceblake]

My favourite part of this episode was June collecting allies for her baby. I could have used ten minutes less of Serena looking wistfully at people enjoying the freedoms she's lost. You made that choice for other people Serena and you are part of the problem. The fact she told June she wanted her out as soon as the baby came proved that.

[scrb]

On 6/12/2018 at 11:45 PM, rideashire said:

Aunt Lydia is such a mystery to me. She obviously has the capacity for kindness and compassion, but she does such horrible things. I have no doubt that she would protect that baby if she was ever in a situation that called for it, yet she will have a woman's eye removed like it's no big deal.

How?! I just...the mind...it boggles. I want to know more about her and how she got where she is.

I think it’s highly probable that some sadistic types would gain positions of authority in any society but especially Gilead.

Definitely many if the Guardians are quick to draw blood with blows from the butts of their rifles or just summarily execute people.

One thing the military tries to do is instill discipline, which means not bein so casually violent or murderous.  That is why is kind of incredible that a Gilead army would defeat a professional military like that of the US or that US military would join Gilead in any kind of large numbers.

Lydia might have been some stern nun or school marm in a former life.

[scrb]

It would have been consistent for Serena to defect, especially the way the guy was giving her attention in a way Fred stopped doing a long time ago.

Especially after he told her that they were making progress in solving the infertility problem, that she could herself give birth.

But the showrunners probably have more plans for her character so of course she returns to Gilead.