S06.E08: Sand Trap 2018.06.18

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I don't know why, but I got the impression from the episode someone came round the site when dunce guy was there without Angry Supervisor and social engineered his way into convincing dunce cap guy to pour the concrete that night. I'm picturing someone showing up and basically calling him an idiot and to hurry up and do it and just confusing the guy with stress so that he poured it without looking/noticing the body. So at night dude's getting reamed to pour the concrete right away, then comes in the next morning and gets reamed for having done it, but boss doesn't give him the chance to explain why / he's realizes he will not win this argument by saying "some random dude who isn't Boss told him to". The very first scene put all that in my head.

I wish we had seen that^^ scenario in detail instead of the ridiculous dunce cap bit to explain why they were cutting up the concrete. @theatremouse is an apt screen name.

[j-beda]

I think Dunce Cap just "signed off on" the pouring, and wasn't the person who actually poured it. So killer pays off the people doing the actual pouring, and they do it late at night so nobody else will see the body, unaware that they should have waited until the pipes were laid before pouring, while foolish dunce cap just said "sure, go ahead" when they arrived to do the job in stead of checking the schedule to see if it was OK to do the pouring.

[NoReally]

On 6/20/2018 at 1:16 PM, 12catcrazy said:

And the actress playing Kelsey - for those of you who see the Liberty Mutual Car Ins commercials - is she the "Brad" girl in that commercial?  I kind of think so but my SO wasn't so sure.  

I wondered about that, too.

But the actress who played Kelsey is Michele Selene Ang, and the one in the Liberty Mutual ads is Midori Francis.

[roseha]

On 6/20/2018 at 1:16 PM, 12catcrazy said:

And the actress playing Kelsey - for those of you who see the Liberty Mutual Car Ins commercials - is she the "Brad" girl in that commercial?  I kind of think so but my SO wasn't so sure.  

I don't think she's the same actress as the Liberty Mutual person but I swear I thought I saw "Kelsey" in another commercial just last night during the NBA draft - maybe it was a fast food commercial?  Driving me crazy!

Edited June 23, 2018 by roseha

[fauntleroy]

Pretty risky. Seems like it would be a lot easier to just bury the.body in the woods somewhere.

[johntfs]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:49 PM, j-beda said:

I think Dunce Cap just "signed off on" the pouring, and wasn't the person who actually poured it. So killer pays off the people doing the actual pouring, and they do it late at night so nobody else will see the body, unaware that they should have waited until the pipes were laid before pouring, while foolish dunce cap just said "sure, go ahead" when they arrived to do the job in stead of checking the schedule to see if it was OK to do the pouring.

 

1 hour ago, fauntleroy said:

Pretty risky. Seems like it would be a lot easier to just bury the.body in the woods somewhere.

Like Sherlock noted last week, would you want to bury a body someplace you'd never been, or someplace you knew you wouldn't be disturbed, because you were familiar with it?

The killer knows construction, concrete and the like due to his job.  He likely also had access to building plans and schedule so he'd know who would be pouring concrete as well as when and where.  Figure he showed after once the pouring was done but well before the concrete had set and dried and dumped the body then.  Or perhaps he hid it earlier prior to the concrete being poured some time when the site was deserted (lunch break maybe?)

In any case, let's turn it around.  Would you rather try to transport a body to some unfamiliar woods, bury it (and hope you aren't spotted by campers/hikers/etc. and hope it isn't uncovered by a squirrels, raccoons or curious dogs?  Or would you rather put it somewhere that would be effectively undisturbed for the next 20-100 years?  The only reason the corpse was found was that dunce-boy messed up.

Edited June 24, 2018 by johntfs

[kitmerlot1213]

On 6/19/2018 at 7:34 PM, Moxie Cat said:

"For you, Watson, I'd make adjustments. Always."

Maybe it was the "always" connotation, but damn I teared up. I just love Sherlock's completely platonic devotion to Joan.

 

Joan has hugged Sherlock before while knowing he won't embrace her (which he didn't this time, either). She does it for herself, because she cares and it feels natural to her - I don't see it as romantic interest. And I think Sherlock is perfectly fine keeping his "partner" whom he loves separate from his sexual activity. That feels normal to him. To me, it is a fascinating relationship.

I remember when this show first announced that it was going to have a female Watson--there was a huge outcry that the only reason the show was making Watson a woman was for a sexy factor and a "will they/won't they" relationship between Sherlock and Joan and to this show's credit, they never went there.  We watched them slowly become close friends and partners throughout season 1 and each season has added to that closeness--they're best friends who love each other, but it's clearly platonic, and it's truly well done.

I also think Sherlock was completely sincere in his talk with Kelsey--he would remove himself from the equation if need be, and I think Kelsey was moved by their devotion to each other.  It probably also made her realize just how shallow her ex-boyfriend is and that she wants to find a man like Sherlock :):)

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I remember when this show first announced that it was going to have a female Watson--there was a huge outcry that the only reason the show was making Watson a woman was for a sexy factor and a "will they/won't they" relationship between Sherlock and Joan and to this show's credit, they never went there.  We watched them slowly become close friends and partners throughout season 1 and each season has added to that closeness--they're best friends who love each other, but it's clearly platonic, and it's truly well done.

 

I think it's more likely that Sherlock and John Watson on Sherlock would become romantic partners than Sherlock and Joan on Elementary.

[Clanstarling]

On 6/18/2018 at 8:14 PM, shapeshifter said:

The graphic gross-outs in this episode rivaled any scene from Bones.

 

I must now be immune thanks to Bones (and CSI before it) - I was thinking "what gross-outs?" It wasn't until reading further that I went "oh, those gross outs." I'm pretty wierd, though, the body in the cement was so cleanly cut that it looked like an illustration to me - so it didn't bother me at all.

On 6/19/2018 at 3:49 PM, possibilities said:

It was hard to believe he was planning to make the info open source.

I know, right? He so totally was not the philanthropist, save the world type, despite the product.

As for the romance discussion, it was my take that the conversation wasn't a hint, but another hard pass on a romantic relationship between Sherlock and Joan.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Clanstarling

[johntfs]

5 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I must now be immune - I was thinking "what gross-outs?" It wasn't until reading further that I went "oh, those gross outs." I'm pretty wierd, though, the body in the cement was so cleanly cut that it looked like an illustration to me - so it didn't bother me at all.

I know, right? He so totally was not the philanthropist, save the world type, despite the product.

I guess I've watched enough Bones/CSI/etc. that I barely noticed that the corpse in the concrete was supposed to be gross.

As for the philanthropist, people are not of a piece.  The guy can still be kind of an asshole while wanting to do something good for the world.  Hell, the victim was a greedy thief who got killed because she tried to save people from the eventual bridge collapse.

[PaulaO]

I am so annoyed with the Joan adopting storyline.  It's 2018.  Why is there still a myth that women don't feel complete unless they have a child (adopting/IVF/whatever).  And the college woman deciding to keep her kid because "she wants to do it all."  Get a grip on reality.  The reality is that you can't have everything.  GAH.  If the story ever veers into a Sherlock/Joan romance, even a HINT of it, I will throw something through my television. 

[possibilities]

7 hours ago, johntfs said:

As for the philanthropist, people are not of a piece.  The guy can still be kind of an asshole while wanting to do something good for the world.  Hell, the victim was a greedy thief who got killed because she tried to save people from the eventual bridge collapse.

I do like that this show tends to portray complexity in motive and character.

 

7 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

As for the romance discussion, it was my take that the conversation wasn't a hint, but another hard pass on a romantic relationship between Sherlock and Joan.

I hope you're right.

[link417]

6 hours ago, PaulaO said:

I am so annoyed with the Joan adopting storyline.  It's 2018.  Why is there still a myth that women don't feel complete unless they have a child (adopting/IVF/whatever).  And the college woman deciding to keep her kid because "she wants to do it all."  Get a grip on reality.  The reality is that you can't have everything.  GAH.  If the story ever veers into a Sherlock/Joan romance, even a HINT of it, I will throw something through my television. 

I thought it was cool that Lucy Liu was infusing a touch of her life into Joan’s story.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, johntfs said:

I guess I've watched enough Bones/CSI/etc. that I barely noticed that the corpse in the concrete was supposed to be gross.

As for the philanthropist, people are not of a piece.  The guy can still be kind of an asshole while wanting to do something good for the world.  Hell, the victim was a greedy thief who got killed because she tried to save people from the eventual bridge collapse.

Valid point. Especially when using the victim as a comparison.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, johntfs said:

As for the philanthropist, people are not of a piece.  The guy can still be kind of an asshole while wanting to do something good for the world.  Hell, the victim was a greedy thief who got killed because she tried to save people from the eventual bridge collapse.

That didn't occur to me, but procedural episodes often have parallel plots.
My fanwank was that Rich Asshole Tech Boss figured open sourcing the project would give him a tax write-off as well as garnering social capital for being a good guy and also having his name associated with a successful project (thanks to all those open source grunts working for no money) rather than with a failed project. But without any explanation on screen, it's probably more of a fanfic than a fanwank.

[roseha]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

My fanwank was that Rich Asshole Tech Boss figured open sourcing the project would give him a tax write-off as well as garnering social capital for being a good guy and also having his name associated with a successful project (thanks to all those open source grunts working for no money) rather than with a failed project. But without any explanation on screen, it's probably more of a fanfic than a fanwank.

I like your idea though shapeshifter!

[tennisgurl]

Really, almost everyone involved in this case was varying degrees of sketchy. Really, its kind of interesting that of the greedy thieves, asshole rich guy, and Indian mobster, it was the most seemingly innocuous person who was the killer. Guess that should have made it obvious really.

I almost want this to become a bizarre running gag. Joan almost gets a baby...only for Sherlock to screw it up by trying to help her. 

I also loved Bell telling Sherlock how good he looked. It was just funny and kind of sweet.

[webruce]

The talk between Sherlock and Kelsey to me was also kind of a "maybe I'm blocking her decision" talk about his problems and the odd living arrangements and if it takes him moving to help her decision to give the baby to Joan then he would do it. He does admire Joan. I also liked the talk she had with Kelsey. With not yet watching the following episodes, I wonder if either Joan will decide to not keep pursuing a baby since her circumstances are hard to raise a child, or Sherlock sees how much she wants a baby and will propose to her out of her need for a more stable "family" environment? it will not be because of love, it will be because of convenience? It would be nice if down the road, Kelsey Chapman lets Joan know the baby was born and all was good at home? Jane never told Kelsey that her family was dysfunctional. She glossed over it when asked about what they thought of her decisions.
It was nice to hear of Clyde also. Maybe true he will soon make an appearance. Maybe his schedule is busy at mall openings etc., lol.

I thought at first that Levi Salinger was the killer. But my upbringing on "Detective Shows 101" would tell you that the smarmy boss who you meet early isn't the killer(usually). Then the push off on to next suspect, "unarmed" Troy Rosetti also wasn't the killer. I would have thought that Salinger was price gouging for something that would help clean the environment and that Laura Wexler stole it to make it cheap and affordable to all, instead of the other way around. But Sherlock's cases seem to always have a little twist to them.

I did though after meeting Mr. Lance Pickering, think he was just to strange to not be associated to the murder. Ofcourse the twist would have been for his assistant Marjorie to be the killer to make her boss not stress over Laura making waves about the sand and the seedy construction company permits. But she probably wouldn't have dumped her body in cement.

I wonder if Vikrant Jindal will come back into Sherlock's radar in the future or if it was just a one time detour to the case?

I thought the construction Bosses look on his face when "Professor Cone Dunce-cap" Fred, cut into the concrete and he saw the body, was priceless. But other then getting sick, what do you expect when you see a body?

It is nice that Sherlock is rested and feeling better. Also nice that Both Marcus and Thomas commented and wondered how he was doing. But in the last couple episodes Capt. Gregson learned just how much Sherlock respects him. Even if he didn't tell him about his headaches and problems. I believe also he will press and the problems will return at a most inopportune time. Maybe when Micheal comes back to town and Sherlock confronts him.

Edited August 7, 2018 by webruce
added thought.

[paigow]

On 8/7/2018 at 12:07 PM, webruce said:

if it takes him moving to help her decision to give the baby to Joan then he would do it.

He could rent the old apartment / porn studio that Joan had a few seasons ago....

[basil]

Quote

So they finally mentioned Clyde, but I'm starting to wonder if something happened to the turtle and that's why we never see him anymore.

I've posted this elsewhere, but just in case you didn't know, Clyde, and his understudy, Bonnie (yes, really), are alive and well.

[rejnel]

Quote

Other than the Shinwell story line this for me is the best show that has been on TV for ages.

Is this a common sentiment? I hated the Shinwell story. As I proceeded with my current re-watch, I remembered that he was the reason I stopped watching in the first place.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, rejnel said:

Is this a common sentiment? I hated the Shinwell story. As I proceeded with my current re-watch, I remembered that he was the reason I stopped watching in the first place.

I don't know I hated the story too. It started out interesting with Joan helping him trying to re-adjust to life after prison and him wanting to do better. Then he was going under cover to bring down his old gang, and then he suddenly turns. They just kept switching the story and making Shinwell more and more unlikable then he hits Sherlock in the head. I already hated him by that point but putting it in and it really seemed like they didn't even know where they were going with Shinwell. But then having him attack Sherlock? I really didn't care that he was murdered or why we should care. They made him so unlikable. I really don't get what the point of any of it was.

[Ailianna]

Also, from a purely dramatic standpoint, having him be likable and a PROtagonist would have made him hitting Sherlock much more shocking and interesting.  People would have been much more curious about it, I think, and would have been drawn in by that.