Iris West

[phoenics]

If the only thing we saw was that talk, I'd be inclined to agree with you.  However when you add additional factors, like Iris having to deal with that stuff with her father and her recently awoken from a coma "best friend" it becomes easy to see why she doesn't want to deal with such stuff from her boyfriend

Oooh good point. She and Barry never did really get past her whole blog thing... they just came back together as friends because they missed one another.

I wonder if that's playing at all into Iris' inability (right now) to reciprocate feelings where Barry is concerned.

That's a great explanation for why Iris may be so upset with Eddie - her previous and recent experience with Barry and Joe keeping stuff from her. Well, Barry, mostly (she's unaware that Joe's doing this too).

[Impish Dragon]

If the only thing we saw was that talk, I'd be inclined to agree with you.  However when you add additional factors, like Iris having to deal with that stuff with her father and her recently awoken from a coma "best friend" it becomes easy to see why she doesn't want to deal with such stuff from her boyfriend

 

You do have a good point.  Which now makes me more upset with the writers when I think about it.  Because if she can lay down this kind of ultimatum with the man she claims to love why can she not do the same with her supposed best friend? 

[driedfruit]

You do have a good point.  Which now makes me more upset with the writers when I think about it.  Because if she can lay down this kind of ultimatum with the man she claims to love why can she not do the same with her supposed best friend? 

 

How would the ultimatum work with Barry? He was all too happy to drop her friendship over the blog issue and since his confession, I get the impression they aren't seeing all that much of each other.  

[Enero]

How would the ultimatum work with Barry? He was all too happy to drop her friendship over the blog issue and since his confession, I get the impression they aren't seeing all that much of each other.

Agreed. Also she is living with Eddie and is a heck of a lot closer to him than she is to Barry. She can see and feel there's something going on with Eddie which is in turn negatively affecting their relationship. It's also not helping matters that Eddie practically has the word GUILTY stamped across his forehead and in his actions. Barry not so much. He's not having an issue with the lies at all. They're like second nature to him. Being as he can lie as well as he can tell the truth and on top of that is spending minimal time with Iris, I can see why she hasn't quite picked up on the major deceit going on with him.

[millahnna]

If anything, I would think it would be harder for her to build up to an ultimatum with Barry because of the length of their friendship. Add in the feelings she isn't acknowledging and you've got a longer fuse but for a much larger blast.

[Impish Dragon]

How would the ultimatum work with Barry? He was all too happy to drop her friendship over the blog issue and since his confession, I get the impression they aren't seeing all that much of each other.  

True, and ultimatum would only work if they were shown to be as close to each other as they were in the pilot.  Then she could give him the same choice she gave Eddie, tell me or we are done.  Of course she would have to be willing to follow through on it as well.

[BPOX]

It's also not helping matters that Eddie practically has the word GUILTY stamped across his forehead and in his actions.

Agreed. I have three theories here, and I think it's a little of each maybe. The first is that Iris is conflicted about the relationship with Eddie and is unconsciously looking to latch onto something that makes her feel comfortable with breaking up with him.  Part of the reason Eddie feel so guilty is the relationship feels so tentative. It would be proof that they were serious if they shared important stuff, it suggests they aren't if they don't. Second, I think she senses that she can manipulate Eddie into telling her, because he does seem to feel so guilty, and that's why she keeps at it. It feels like she's close to convincing him. Third, since he is so uncomfortable she may think it would be better for him to just tell her. So she's badgering Eddie because it would be better for Eddie to have someone he can talk with.

 

Barry not so much. He's not having an issue with the lies at all. They're like second nature to him.

Well, thing is Barry is quite comfortable lying to Iris, but not nearly so comfortable lying to Wells. Admittedly the stakes are higher with Wells. What was interesting to me in the Barry Iris scene where she asked if Eddie was cheating, Iris seemed touched that Barry was backing Eddie up. It didn't ultimately seem like she bought his story, but oddly she seemed cool with him concocting the excuse.

 

The writers message, by way of Felicity's explanation and Iris reaction, seems to be something on the order of it's cool to lie if you act confident that it's for the best. In some sense this makes sense to me, I suppose. Back in the day my father worked on engineering the Stealth Bomber, which we didn't know at the time but after the fact. At the time we knew he was working on "the black hole" project and there were jokes about the ridiculous seeming security protocols, but nothing ever seemed too serious. I guess if he had acted distressed, I would have been a lot more interested in and worried about what that project was about.

Edited April 18, 2015 by BPOX

[Enero]

Well Iris made the connection between Star Labs and the meta humans. It would've been nice if we'd seen her investigation and subsequent conclusion on screen.

She finally knows the truth! Yay! However, considering how she made the connections to Star Labs - offscreen, I don't expect to see any satisfying fallout from all the lies Barry, Joe and Eddie told to keep her from the truth.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Enero

[phoenics]

Candice Patton killed her scenes tonight...

I loved that she figured it out on her own, and the little shipper in me also appreciated the "spark" thing... Given that David Nutter produced this episode (and also produced episodes of Roswell that heavily featured Max and Liz and an episode where they touch and make each other "glow"), I get the whole spark=chemistry=soulmate thing the show was pushing. It also paralleled the way Lois Lane figured out that Clark was Superman on Lois & Clark. Clark touched her face with his hand when she was upset and then later on, Superman did it in exactly the same way and she figured it out.

I think Iris might now look a lot more closely to see if her theory that it's Barry is true - I am not convinced that she really knows for sure - I think she's going to do some "Lois Lane" tests to see if she's right. Or maybe not.

Apparently the Canadian promo (which features Iris much more heavily) has her confronting Barry about him being the Flash in Star Labs.

I LOVED that she figured out the whole Star Labs thing all on her own - literally she got NO HELP from anyone. The only thing I would have liked better is if the show had shown this ALL ALONG! Instead of so much focus on the crossovers, etc, they could have shown Iris doing more of this stuff - as it is, there have been two episodes now where she's done it all behind the scenes... I'd totally love to see her actually doing it on the show!

She's gonna be pissed when she finds out how deep this lie goes and to how many people though.

[kikaha]

 

She finally knows the truth! Yay! However, considering how she made the connections to Star Labs - offscreen, I don't expect to see any satisfying fallout from all the lies Barry, Joe and Eddie told to keep her from the truth.

 

I have the opposite reactions in both regards.  i.e. I will find any fallout like that UNsatisfying.  But I expect to feel unsatisfied about this -- I think Iris will hit the roof, onscreen, when she learns the three have kept her in the dark. 

[miracole]

I hope this is the beginning of good things to come for Iris.

 

Usually shows have a horrible actress and character that they continue to prop up no matter what as the bestest thing ever.  Here they have a really good actress in CP and the few times they've let the character shine have also been good but they keep burying her under all this "Me man! You woman!" stuff. 

 

[Sakura12]

Iris finally knows! And she figured it out on her own. I just hope she's mad at her so called family and friends for keeping in the dark FOR NO REASON. She should be pissed that she's almost the last person in Central to City to know that, she's behind some villains. They should not have had Barry say "I didn't get powers", that takes it from not telling her to actively lying to her face. 

[phoenics]

Iris finally knows! And she figured it out on her own. I just hope she's mad at her so called family and friends for keeping in the dark FOR NO REASON. She should be pissed that she's almost the last person in Central to City to know that, she's behind some villains. They should not have had Barry say "I didn't get powers", that takes it from not telling her to actively lying to her face.

It really does. It's worse than him lying to her face - he's actually gas lighting her. He's making her doubt her own skill and talent because of a secret he's keeping from her (that he's not keeping from ANYONE else). That scene with Iris literally looking at Barry with "Believe in me" eyes and then Barry lies to her face, kinda crushing her - I saw red on that.

If I was Iris I would be so upset.

In the Canadian promo, Iris confronts Barry as The Flash at Star Labs, with his mask down off of his face. Caitlin is also there, so Iris will know that Caitlin knows, along with Cisco and Wells...

All I know is, the impact of this needs to be felt and felt HARD by Barry, Joe and Eddie and everyone else who willingly lied to her face for so long. But Barry and Joe should get the worst of it.

[cynic]

Well Iris made the connection between Star Labs and the meta humans. It would've been nice if we'd seen her investigation and subsequent conclusion on screen.

She finally knows the truth! Yay! However, considering how she made the connections to Star Labs - offscreen, I don't expect to see any satisfying fallout from all the lies Barry, Joe and Eddie told to keep her from the truth.

It seriously bugs how much TPTB have shortchanged Iris/Candice Patton. Instead of spotlighting a crossover character that viewers of his own show don't even care about (hello Ray!), we could have spent the episode watching Iris investigate and put it all together. Better yet, maybe we could have seen bits of her work seeded throughout the season and given up one or two scenes of Joe telling yet another person that they must not tell Iris. Maybe if the show had used the very capable Patton for more than stupid (not to mention stereotypical) relationship bs and focused on Iris being smart and proactive, she would have been better embraced by viewers.

[slayer2]

Candice was phenomenal this ep, what a class act this actress is. They need to give her more to do and fast.

[Oscirus]

Sadly, Iris's wrath won't be nearly brutal enough. I assume some passive aggressive comments, an episode where she ignores the men in her life and then she'll forgive them and everything will be forgiven. As much as I want to see  more, I can't imagine that the writers would want to risk turning off fans from Iris due to her mean behavior of the protagonist.

 

That scene with Iris literally looking at Barry with "Believe in me" eyes and then Barry lies to her face, kinda crushing her - I saw red on that.

 

That normally would bother me but I'm used to that from him. What bugged me about that scene is she's trying to tell him about something serious and Barry's too busy trying to listen for hints about her feelings about him. I seriously hope that the author's name on that article changes and Barry is forced to rectify his behavior. Because at this moment, I can't see why I should be rooting for him to get with Iris other then the fact that it gets Iris more screen time.

[CabotCove]

It seriously bugs how much TPTB have shortchanged Iris/Candice Patton. Instead of spotlighting a crossover character that viewers of his own show don't even care about (hello Ray!), we could have spent the episode watching Iris investigate and put it all together.

 

I care. Ray wasnt in this show all season long or this latest episode,  was that his fault too....

[phoenics]

I care. Ray wasnt in this show all season long or this latest episode,  was that his fault too....

Well even if you take Ray out - I do think all of the crossover stuff has hampered the writers in focusing more on Iris and I think some of the fan reaction reflects that. And the fact that CP is a more compelling actress than nearly everyone who has crossed over (save a few), makes it all the more glaring.

I think overall, The Flash's runaway success meant that it became the vehicle to spin off other shows and that has kinda put it at a disadvantage because it stalled stories such as Iris' in a way that has been really unsatisfactory.

[Xander]

I care. Ray wasnt in this show all season long or this latest episode,  was that his fault too....

Ditto. 

[phoenics]

Awesome fan reactions to Iris finding out Barry is the Flash...

I couldn't figure out where else to put it, ;)

A theory I just had about the speed force and Iris:

I have a theory now about Barry being in the coma after the lightning struck him.

I'm wondering if the lightning itself wasn't lightning, but actually the speed force? Or maybe the combination of the chemicals and the lightning created the speed force? And then the reason Barry was in the coma for all of that time was because the speed force was attempting to absorb Barry back into the speed force?

That's a risk all speedsters have when engaging with the speed force - it's kinda like a beacon, right - that would absorb them all back into it when they're accessing it?

So, Iris - known in canon for being Barry's lightning rod back to the real world by giving him a very human and very intense emotional connection back to his life - Iris sits with Barry and makes this impassioned plea in 1x20 (The Trap) for Barry to come back because they need him... and she needs him...

Then she puts her hand over his and a blue spark erupts between his left ring finger and her hand... I think THAT was the speed force reacting to her and I think THAT moment with Iris is actually what eventually propelled Barry to wake up... though it took some time.

I think the show just showed us the speed force concept.

Edited May 3, 2015 by phoenics

[Enero]

I think this was the best Iris episode yet. Finally she gets a POV even if Barry tried to undermine her POV by making it about her feelings for him. SMH. Sometimes I think the only thing that makes WestAllen root-able is the characters prettiness together and undeniable chemistry. When I look beyond the surface it gets difficult sometimes to root for Iris dating much less marrying Barry. But I digress.

Loved Iris tonight. She really could've stomped her feet and thrown things over the lies she discovered and no one would've blamed her, but she responded with anger and disappointment but also maturity. I'm so glad she was able to express how she felt even if it was only for half an episode.

Though it seems like she's forgiven Joe, which I'm not happy about it seems like things are a little more ambiguous between her and Barry. Which I'm pleased about. Though she admitted that she has feelings for him, she also reminded him of her love for Eddie and that they are living together. Another thing too, when Barry asked what would happen once Eddie was safely returned she said she didn't know. Now that could mean a lot of things. She could be thinking she can't break Eddie's heart to run to Barry. She could be thinking she wants Barry, but wants to make things work with Eddie. She could be thinking she might not want either of them. I just hope that she hasn't let her anger and disappointment go. I hope that she will continue to keep Barry at a distance.

Regarding her journalism, I loved it being used, though briefly, on the Grodd case. I hope that we'll see more of this. She fit in nicely with Team Flash. Her and Caitlyn's scene were nice too. I hope we'll see more of that and that their interactions will be more frequent now that she knows the truth.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Enero

[olicityfan25]

I found this episode exhausting.

[driedfruit]

I don't think Iris' heartbreak would've been as powerful with a lesser actress. While I hope there are further repercussions in the coming episodes and possibly the coming season, I did love the manner in which the drama unfolded in terms of her character. There were some beautiful instances and much needed characterization in the past two episodes, shedding some light on Iris' silences. They've been so lucky with Candice Patton, truly, I hope they'll take full advantage of that next season and let her be the female lead Iris West should be. 

 

On a shallower note, I'm loving the new silhouette on Iris with her pants/coats. The wardrobe department never fails her. 

[phoenics]

The credits changed. It used to be on previous episodes (definitely the first 12), that DP's name came right after CP's name - but I counted about 10-15 seconds in between them now. It used to be like 2 seconds. I checked 1x21 and the gap was 5 seconds. I need to go back to see when this changed from the much smaller gap.

But from that, it clearly solidifies CP as the leading lady of this show - not sure if contracts changed, but that's a big deal.

Also - tonight, Iris rocked. When she took out Peek-A-Boo - WOW... that was a major shot to the back of the head... Caitlin is lucky she was there. She was completely damseled. Having a cop's daughter around worked out.

I may be a westallen fan, but I applaud Iris for sticking with Eddie - I think she's in denial, but eh. I also think something happens to change the timeline because of the

Snowstorm wedding spoiler pics that show Eddie/Iris together in the finale

.

[ruby24]

Yeah, I kind of hate when women are shown to be constantly wishy-washy and in denial about they really feel, because it tends to reinforce a bad stereotype. And in this case, Joe is totally right that she's a person who won't face her own feelings, and that's annoying. Especially because we know how she really feels because we saw it in episode 15, and it's taking forever for her to accept what everyone else already knows, including herself from the other timeline. It's just gone on way too long at this point.

Edited May 13, 2015 by ruby24

[Enero]

Loved badassed Iris who says this young woman can't take care of herself? I also like the fact that she is not a fickle woman and that once she makes a commitment to someone she fights to keep it. She has integrity which I really like.

I was however, disappointed with her turning to wallpaper AGAIN. So are the writers just going to drag her out when something significant is happening with Barry that involves her like the secret reveal last week?

I know that Eddie and Iris's relationship is not even the C story on this show, but the writers should've spent more time on how the kidnapping affected their relationship once Eddie returned. Also Iris (and Eddie) were not given the logical opportunity to discuss Barry's secret. It didn't have to be a 10 minute discussion but at least a moment of shock from Eddie that she now knows the truth and a moment from Iris asking him about the secret, maybe even asking if that was why he didn't propose in part due to the secret he kept, something.

I like WestAllen. Candace and Grant have wonderful chemistry and I do admit I get sucked in by their scenes together. But I'm turned off by the fact that the writers don't seem to have much interest in Iris outside of her relationship with Barry. Even with last week's episode she's barely had a POV this season. Perhaps this will be better next season, but I don't know. This show seems to be all about Barry and the other men on the show with little thought about the women's thoughts or feelings. If this continues into next season, especially with regards to Iris, I can see myself quickly losing interest in this show.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Enero

[phoenics]

The writers definitely need to focus more on some Iris-centered scenes where it's her telling her PoV. I think there was some exposition there - but it was in relation to Eddie/Barry - not just Iris.

But I guess the writers are doing even worse with Caitlin at this point, so... they really just suck at writing women.

[nksarmi]

I missed the first few episodes of the season but have had a chance to see them the last couple of weeks and I have two things to say....

 

First, what IS the big deal about Barry lying to Iris about the Flash up until they let Eddie in on it? I mean, I get why it sucked when Eddie had to start lying too, but from what I can gather - Iris has been dating Eddie for months (looks like 9 months or more) without telling her dad about it.  We're going into episode 3 without him knowing (not sure when he does find out), so the girl knows a thing or two about lying about important shit.  I have no idea why people get so worked up about that fact that she was being lied to. 

 

Second, she might be the worst journalist ever.  As someone who has a degree in journalism and has actually worked in the field on and off over the years, how am  supposed to like a character who flippantly talks about making up quotes, apparently doesn't use a tape recorder or take notes for her stories, and can't do a lick of research to figure out the science aspects of her story so she can't write it?  Any ability to like her character has been flushed down the toilet for me with these first two episodes.

Edited June 6, 2015 by nksarmi

[driedfruit]

 

First, what IS the big deal about Barry lying to Iris about the Flash up until they let Eddie in on it? I mean, I get why it sucked when Eddie had to start lying too, but from what I can gather - Iris has been dating Eddie for months (looks like 9 months or more) without telling her dad about it.  We're going into episode 3 without him knowing (not sure when he does find out), so the girl knows a thing or two about lying about important shit.  I have no idea why people get so worked up about that fact that she was being lied to. 

 

Because Joe and Barry's reasons for lying to her were idiotic and sexist. People tend to get turned off when the male characters act like misogynists and when a female character (one of only two) is treated this way and left out without a storyline for most of the season. There's also the rub of Iris very nearly getting killed due to the secret. If she had known RF had threatened her, perhaps she would've left town to some unknown location for her protection.

 

Also recall that Iris only lied to Joe because he's a sexist controlling jerk, so it was actually an act of defiance on her part to make her own choices. Whereas Joe/Barry's lies were to manipulate and control her. Her lie in no way justifies their abuse of her trust.

  

 

Second, she might be the worst journalist ever.  As someone who has a degree in journalism and has actually worked in the field on and off over the years, how am  supposed to like a character who flippantly talks about making up quotes, apparently doesn't use a tape recorder or take notes for her stories, and can't do a lick of research to figure out the science aspects of her story so she can't write it?

 

She wasn't a journalist at that point, just a bored student who didn't want to put much effort into her journalism elective. Since then she has acquired many of those skills. She does gather evidence/go to crime scenes/take the first picture of Flash... In any case, she's more of a glorified blogger on the show than a serious journalist and still has a lot of growing to do in her profession.

 

But if we're looking at how bad people are at their jobs, there are worse offenders. Barry's knowledge of basic physics is very poor for a scientist and he's somehow the sole CSI. (And he is supposed to build AI in the future....). Meanwhile Caitlin never notices how the paralyzed man she sees everyday isn't experiencing muscular atrophy in his legs. I wonder if you take issue with Barry and Caitlin, considering they're well established in their profession (geniuses even), while Iris' mistakes were before she was even set on the path for hers. 

Edited June 7, 2015 by driedfruit

[ruby24]

 

But if we're looking at how bad people are at their jobs, there are worse offenders. Barry's knowledge of basic physics is very poor for a scientist and he's somehow the sole CSI. (And he is supposed to build AI in the future....). Meanwhile Caitlin never notices how the paralyzed man she sees everyday isn't experiencing muscular atrophy in his legs. I wonder if you take issue with Barry and Caitlin, considering they're well established in their profession (geniuses even), while Iris' mistakes were before she was even set on the path for hers. 

 

Yeah, that's an error that's been bugging me for a while now. The Barry we met on Arrow was a different guy in terms of his smarts. I think what happened is they wanted Cisco and Caitlin to be the tech people (and Wells) and so Barry was the only one in that group who could ask the questions for the audience, and they could explain it. But yeah, it makes you totally forget that he himself was supposed to be this genius CSI guy, who shouldn't have to necessarily ask so many questions about physics and everything.

 

Now, I'm hoping they can integrate Iris onto the team and maybe she can be the layman who asks the questions, so that Barry can go back to being the scientist that he supposedly is.

Edited June 7, 2015 by ruby24

[nksarmi]

Because Joe and Barry's reasons for lying to her were idiotic and sexist. People tend to get turned off when the male characters act like misogynists and when a female character (one of only two) is treated this way and left out without a storyline for most of the season. There's also the rub of Iris very nearly getting killed due to the secret. If she had known RF had threatened her, perhaps she would've left town to some unknown location for her protection.

 

Also recall that Iris only lied to Joe because he's a sexist controlling jerk, so it was actually an act of defiance on her part to make her own choices. Whereas Joe/Barry's lies were to manipulate and control her. Her lie in no way justifies their abuse of her trust.

  

 

 

She wasn't a journalist at that point, just a bored student who didn't want to put much effort into her journalism elective. Since then she has acquired many of those skills. She does gather evidence/go to crime scenes/take the first picture of Flash... In any case, she's more of a glorified blogger on the show than a serious journalist and still has a lot of growing to do in her profession.

 

But if we're looking at how bad people are at their jobs, there are worse offenders. Barry's knowledge of basic physics is very poor for a scientist and he's somehow the sole CSI. (And he is supposed to build AI in the future....). Meanwhile Caitlin never notices how the paralyzed man she sees everyday isn't experiencing muscular atrophy in his legs. I wonder if you take issue with Barry and Caitlin, considering they're well established in their profession (geniuses even), while Iris' mistakes were before she was even set on the path for hers. 

 

I have an issue with a daughter dating her father's partner and lying to him about it for months, yes.  I don't care what her "reasons" are - that is a huge breach of trust for both Eddie and Iris.  Grown ass adults get to say, "I don't care if you approve, I'm going to do it anyway."  But actively deceiving someone about something that a normal child would communicate with their parent is just plain wrong in my eyes.

 

On the other hand, Barry not telling Iris about something that was happening to him is his choice.  Barry becoming the Flash - much like Oliver being the Arrow - is his secret and his choice in who to trust with it.  He has NO obligation to tell Joe or Iris or anyone - after all, she is not his wife or his girlfriend or his partner in any way.  The fact that Joe asked Barry not to tell Iris because he wanted to protect her from the craziness does NOT make him a bad father (and it wasn't because he's sexist).  This was all new to them and they had no idea what the repercussions were going to be. It's actually a fairly normal parent response.  I have taken issue over three seasons of Oliver not giving providing people with more information - but his decision to tell anyone about his secret identity has always been his choice and I never had a problem with him lying to anyone about it.  It takes away Barry's agency to say he HAS to tell Iris his secret identity and that is pretty awful.

 

So to me, until Joe and Barry involve Eddie in who the Flash is and the deception to Iris - I take no issue with it.  Once they involve Eddie - especially with Joe knowing his feelings and intentions toward his daughter - and it starts to damage his relationship with Iris, then I have a problem with it.  Eddie's frustrated "everyone BUT Iris" comment highlighted how ridiculous the writers let it become.  But I think they made Iris come off well for a) figuring it out herself and b) being more or less understanding about it all.  I just think that fans being upset that she was being lied to WHILE she was lying to Joe about Eddie is weird.

 

In regards to her being a bored student, wasn't she supposed to be a GRADUATE student? First off, Grad students don't take "electives" like undergraduates do.  Every course you take is applicable to your degree or your concentration in some way.  You don't blow off courses as a graduate student (in many schools more than one C can put you on academic probation and derail your studies).  And I've never seen a graduate student be that "flip" about anything or be so incapable of doing research that they needed to have their "brother" brief them on a subject they could research themselves and complete.  She comes off like a high school student or a dippy Freshman at best. 

 

To me, at this point, Caitlyn does not come off as incompetent or not caring about what she does for a living.  Barry doesn't come off as being flip about his job, but he certainly does start using shortcuts (but I do see what people were talking about when they said in the finale that he used to do a lot more science stuff).  The reason his shortcuts aren't offensive per say is because he is still getting to the solution that is needed as opposed to "making stuff up."  The guy that Wells killed was doing what real journalists do - Iris is what has replaced real journalism and yes, I personally find it offensive.  Heck, even the woman (Linda?) that Barry was dating seemed like a better reporter than Iris.  So yea, this fact alone might make it as hard for me to like her as some people find it to tolerate Laurel on Arrow.

[LindaBelcher]

Linda? All we saw Linda.do was talk about writing an article for a hockey game.

I saw growth from Iris in terms of being a journalist

-Piecing together that Ronnie was Burning Man aka Firestorm

-Hacking through police files and finding similar cases to Eddies when he was accused of killing two cops

-Collecting data on every Meta human thats appeared and noticing the connection to the Particle Accelerator

-Taking notes on the Man In Yellow (which I'm personally hoping will lead her to investigating Henry's case in S2)

Iris isn't the same as she was in ep 2. She went from being willing to make up quotes to actively investigating. I hope to see that expanded in S2 now that Eddie is dead and she won't have relationship drama hanging over her.

[ruby24]

I wonder how they're going to proceed with trying to get Henry out of jail now. They know who did it but they have no legal evidence. Where can that storyline even go at this point?

[driedfruit]

I have an issue with a daughter dating her father's partner and lying to him about it for months, yes.  I don't care what her "reasons" are - that is a huge breach of trust for both Eddie and Iris.  Grown ass adults get to say, "I don't care if you approve, I'm going to do it anyway."  But actively deceiving someone about something that a normal child would communicate with their parent is just plain wrong in my eyes.

 

Normal children don't have the entire police force spying on them for their dad. You're also ignoring the fact that during this time Iris was lying to Joe, her family was going through a traumatic and devastating loss. Not telling her dad would've been a way to avoid further trauma, as Joe's controlling tactics with her start and end with bullying. So no, not a normal situation at all.

 

But I'm done arguing with you, since you're excusing sexist writing for a female character to justify your hate for her. And funny how you think Eddie's relationship with Iris getting ruined is worse than Iris becoming alienated from Barry and her father due to the secret...but judging by your comments you barely give her perspective a single thought.

 

And Linda is a better reporter? How? Your comments seem to come down to how you hate Iris so she is always at fault and wrong and completely incompetent....because you say so. lol

Edited June 7, 2015 by driedfruit

[nksarmi]

But I'm done arguing with you, since you're excusing sexist writing for a female character to justify your hate for her. And funny how you think Eddie's relationship with Iris getting ruined is worse than Iris becoming alienated from Barry and her father due to the secret...but judging by your comments you barely give her perspective a single thought.

 

And Linda is a better reporter? How? Your comments seem to come down to how you hate Iris so she is always at fault and wrong and completely incompetent....because you say so. lol

I simply disagree that Joe's actions were sexist and frankly, I don't see how you have any bases to judge his behavior as such. To do so, Joe would have had to have a son that Barry was equally close to that he didn't guard at the same time he was protecting Iris.  Since there is no bases of comparison and since what I have seen of Joe (I haven't seen every episode) does not indicate he is sexist or misogynistic to women in generally - I will insist he was just behaving like a parent (rather or not he was overbearing is likely up to the viewer). 

 

I personally see Eddie's lie to Joe as the worst. I'm not a cop so I can't speak first hand, but I would have to think that dating your partner's daughter behind their back is a huge breech of trust to people who put their lives in each other's hands. 

 

In regards to Linda, I thought I remembered her talking about sources and such and even though she covered sports (I have as well), she did seem to take her job seriously.  Perhaps Iris does between the time she started and the time the season ended, but it still left a very sour taste in my mouth watching her talk about making up quotes and insisting she couldn't complete and assignment with actual research because Barry wouldn't help her.

 

At this point, I don't hate Iris (of course I don't hate Laurel on Arrow either so I'm easy lol) - I just have HUGE issues with how the writers portrayed her early on - lazy on the research front, flip about her work, willing to be dishonest to both her father and in her work (making up quotes is a lie too you know) etc... Really, the lying to her dad about her boyfriend wasn't the biggest thing I disliked about her from the first two episodes.  I'm glad she has grown as a reporter, but I definitely do NOT like how she began. 

 

I actually give her a lot of credit for not getting too pissy about Barry and Joe keeping things from her.  I will assume that is because she has kept things from them in the past and she recognizes that Barry actually does get to decide how/when to tell her something that big. 

[Chip]

Everyone - Please respect the opinions of all the posters in this thread. If they are different from yours, that's OK, we are here to discuss and read other takes on the story. It's fine to disagree, but keep the discussion civil.

[Sakura12]

I don't have a problem with Barry choosing to keep his secret, it's the fact that he was running around telling everyone else, including some villains that he was the Flash. Towards the end the only one that didn't know was Iris. That was annoying. 

[nksarmi]

I don't have a problem with Barry choosing to keep his secret, it's the fact that he was running around telling everyone else, including some villains that he was the Flash. Towards the end the only one that didn't know was Iris. That was annoying. 

Yea I've said that by the time the show got to everyone but Iris, it was ridiculous and he DID tell her in the episode where he time travelled.  But in the end, I think it works better with her figuring it out herself. 

[Trini]

Iris isn't the same as she was in ep 2.

 

At this point, I don't hate Iris (of course I don't hate Laurel on Arrow either so I'm easy lol) - I just have HUGE issues with how the writers portrayed her early on - lazy on the research front, flip about her work, willing to be dishonest to both her father and in her work (making up quotes is a lie too you know) etc... Really, the lying to her dad about her boyfriend wasn't the biggest thing I disliked about her from the first two episodes.  I'm glad she has grown as a reporter, but I definitely do NOT like how she began.

 

I think the writers definitely decided to make a course-correction for Iris after the first few episodes. It wasn't all well thought out or "organic", but I'm willing to let it slide if they can do better in season 2. And it's not unheard of for things to change as a new show works out its kinks.

[driedfruit]

I apologize if I came down a bit hard, but I've seen too many people calling Iris a selfish whiny bitch for being upset about being lied to by her family that it's a bit triggery to see this ridiculous SL getting defended.

 

Barry's secret wouldn't be a big deal if it didn't effect Iris. But once he decided to make midnight visits, he was crossing the line in a big way, and things only got worse from there.

Edited June 9, 2015 by driedfruit

[pookat]

How great is Candice Patton for making this little girl's day and probably helping many other young girls realize that "we're beautiful" too.

https://www.upworthy.com/6-words-from-a-5-year-old-girl-show-exactly-why-diversity-matters-in-hollywood

[driedfruit]

She is also very vocal about social issues, which is something I immensely admire about her. Given how often she gets targeted, she's very brave to speak out. 

[TwistedandBored]

I hope the show treats Iris better than they have in season 1. Honestly, the only thing that made Iris worthy of rooting for was CP. 

[Trini]

From various interviews and spoilers, it looks like the showrunners have heard the complaints about Iris, at least; and are trying to include her more. We'll see how things work out in execution, though.

[wingster55]

I don't think the writing was all that bad for Iris. It all kinda seemed intentional IMO.

[Smoaking Reporter]

I don't think the writing was all that bad for Iris. It all kinda seemed intentional IMO.

Same. I don't think it was bad either. My main problem was the almost non-existent development of her career & her not knowing Barry's secret, which led to decreased screen time. She was great in the last few episodes of S1. Especially the episode where she finds out about Barry. Candice knocked it out the park with her acting. It gave me hope for S2.

I'm loving all the spoilers we've gotten about Iris for S2. She's going to be amazing as the leader of Team Flash. Also excited that she finally gets to have friendships. Iris is the only thing I have interest in for S2 so I'm hoping they get this right.

Edited September 3, 2015 by SmoakingLove

[phoenics]

I have an issue with a daughter dating her father's partner and lying to him about it for months, yes.  I don't care what her "reasons" are - that is a huge breach of trust for both Eddie and Iris.  Grown ass adults get to say, "I don't care if you approve, I'm going to do it anyway."  But actively deceiving someone about something that a normal child would communicate with their parent is just plain wrong in my eyes.

 

On the other hand, Barry not telling Iris about something that was happening to him is his choice.  Barry becoming the Flash - much like Oliver being the Arrow - is his secret and his choice in who to trust with it.  He has NO obligation to tell Joe or Iris or anyone - after all, she is not his wife or his girlfriend or his partner in any way.  The fact that Joe asked Barry not to tell Iris because he wanted to protect her from the craziness does NOT make him a bad father (and it wasn't because he's sexist).  This was all new to them and they had no idea what the repercussions were going to be. It's actually a fairly normal parent response.  I have taken issue over three seasons of Oliver not giving providing people with more information - but his decision to tell anyone about his secret identity has always been his choice and I never had a problem with him lying to anyone about it.  It takes away Barry's agency to say he HAS to tell Iris his secret identity and that is pretty awful.

 

So to me, until Joe and Barry involve Eddie in who the Flash is and the deception to Iris - I take no issue with it.  Once they involve Eddie - especially with Joe knowing his feelings and intentions toward his daughter - and it starts to damage his relationship with Iris, then I have a problem with it.  Eddie's frustrated "everyone BUT Iris" comment highlighted how ridiculous the writers let it become.  But I think they made Iris come off well for a) figuring it out herself and b) being more or less understanding about it all.  I just think that fans being upset that she was being lied to WHILE she was lying to Joe about Eddie is weird.

 

In regards to her being a bored student, wasn't she supposed to be a GRADUATE student? First off, Grad students don't take "electives" like undergraduates do.  Every course you take is applicable to your degree or your concentration in some way.  You don't blow off courses as a graduate student (in many schools more than one C can put you on academic probation and derail your studies).  And I've never seen a graduate student be that "flip" about anything or be so incapable of doing research that they needed to have their "brother" brief them on a subject they could research themselves and complete.  She comes off like a high school student or a dippy Freshman at best. 

 

To me, at this point, Caitlyn does not come off as incompetent or not caring about what she does for a living.  Barry doesn't come off as being flip about his job, but he certainly does start using shortcuts (but I do see what people were talking about when they said in the finale that he used to do a lot more science stuff).  The reason his shortcuts aren't offensive per say is because he is still getting to the solution that is needed as opposed to "making stuff up."  The guy that Wells killed was doing what real journalists do - Iris is what has replaced real journalism and yes, I personally find it offensive.  Heck, even the woman (Linda?) that Barry was dating seemed like a better reporter than Iris.  So yea, this fact alone might make it as hard for me to like her as some people find it to tolerate Laurel on Arrow.

 

LMBO at the Laurel comparison - Iris is nothing like Laurel - but I have noticed some fans like to make that comparison as a justification for the dislike.  Which feels circular.

 

As to your other comments, Barry's physics knowledge was downplayed to make room for Team Flash.  Caitlin actually formed her lips and asked what a singularity was.  Iris - while in school - made a couple of flip comments - she wasn't in her career and it was probably a joke.  I'm amused that some people are bashing her for that.  When she hacked her dad's account to get info to save Eddie, folks bashed her for that - at the same time praising Felicity.  Difference is, the latter 3 are well established in their careers whereas Iris was still figuring hers out.

 

I think the double standard (or triple, depending on how you look at it) applied against Iris is well known.

 

I'm always sad when I see it.  Everyone else is given the benefit of the doubt and Iris is castigated on sight - and worse, the sexist and misogynistic actions of her dad, Barry and Eddie are glossed over and justified and her reasonable and (quite honestly) muted anger are slammed.  It makes me weep for humanity.

 

I'm glad her being out of the loop is over though and now we can see her grow in her career and be the glue of Team Flash.

[nksarmi]

My only comparison to Laurel is that I might find it as hard to like Iris as some people find it to like Laurel.  I am 50/50 on Laurel - I see why some fans don't like her and I think most of the justifications are warranted.  Some are odd, but that isn't the point.

 

I wrote this post about Iris as someone who has worked as a journalist.  I have also been to graduate school and taught as a graduate student.  There is nothing "casual" about being a graduate student.  So, I find all of people's excuses about how she was "just in school" for her actions to be lame.  I don't have issue with Iris hacking her dad's computer and I am surprised people slammed on her for that.  But I do think Iris was written very poorly in the early part of season one - the writers just weren't doing her any favors.

 

But my main gripe is how everyone called her father and Barry misogynistic because they didn't tell her the truth when she was lying to them as well.  It's just weird.  Barry and her father wouldn't tell her a secret that technically had nothing to do with her - it had to do with Barry.  Iris wouldn't tell her father she was dating his partner!  If she was just dating some random guy and didn't want to tell her dad yet - that would be one thing.  But she was dating his partner!  I don't get how one lie is ok but the other is misogynistic and wrong?

 

I think the way Iris handled the truth redeemed her a lot in my eyes.  I certainly care less about how she acted in the first couple of episodes than I do that she showed class and immediately started working as part of the team once she found out the truth.  If she had made the whole situation about the fact that she was lied to - her character would have been ruined for me forever.  Fortunately, the writers did not go down that path and they actually allowed Iris to shine in the last couple of episodes of season one.

[nksarmi]

LMBO at the Laurel comparison - Iris is nothing like Laurel - but I have noticed some fans like to make that comparison as a justification for the dislike.  Which feels circular.

 

As to your other comments, Barry's physics knowledge was downplayed to make room for Team Flash.  Caitlin actually formed her lips and asked what a singularity was.  Iris - while in school - made a couple of flip comments - she wasn't in her career and it was probably a joke.  I'm amused that some people are bashing her for that.  When she hacked her dad's account to get info to save Eddie, folks bashed her for that - at the same time praising Felicity.  Difference is, the latter 3 are well established in their careers whereas Iris was still figuring hers out.

 

I think the double standard (or triple, depending on how you look at it) applied against Iris is well known.

 

I'm always sad when I see it.  Everyone else is given the benefit of the doubt and Iris is castigated on sight - and worse, the sexist and misogynistic actions of her dad, Barry and Eddie are glossed over and justified and her reasonable and (quite honestly) muted anger are slammed.  It makes me weep for humanity.

 

I'm glad her being out of the loop is over though and now we can see her grow in her career and be the glue of Team Flash.

 

 

I just want to point out that use of the word misogyny is what really bothers me when it comes to Iris.  I don't think she has - at any point in time - experienced this and I strongly dislike that people throw that word around in regards to her character.

 

Misogyny defined: dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

 

Barry certainly never displays dislike, contempt, or ingrained prejudice against women.  He has the upmost respect for almost every woman we see him interact with - including Iris.  It is only his overwhelming respect for Joe - his father figure - that makes him hold his tongue regarding his secret (and maybe a little fear that she won't like it as much when she finds out it's him).

 

And while I think I have still missed one or two episodes of season one - I have not personally seen Joe display misogyny either.  He seems to work with and respect women just fine.  You can call him an over-protective father and maybe various other things.  But not misogynistic.  In fact, he seems to display that same lack of trust in Barry early on (especially the fact that he never believed Barry's dad didn't kill his mother until he saw the really weird stuff first hand) that he has for Iris for most of season one.  So I have issue with Joe getting that label as well.

 

I think if people just wanted to slam on different characters for lying or not trusting each other or whatever, I wouldn't take much issue with it (though I don't think Iris is perfect in the truth, trust, and American way department either) - I just feel the need to defend two fairly well-written male characters as NOT being misogynistic.

 

(PS: Feel free to discuss if Oliver Queen is misogynistic or not and I will politely bow out.)

Edited September 3, 2015 by nksarmi

[jaytee1812]

Banning your daughter from at least two occupations is misogynist, telling her best friend to lie to her because you know better is misogynist.

Lying to your best friend because her dad told you to is misogynist.

Having an argument with your girlfriend's father over which of you gets to make decisions for her is misogynist.

All three of you gaslighting her is misogynist, then sending her to make dinner is misogynist.

It is ingrained prejudice to assume women need protection, can't be trusted and can't make their own decisions.

I thought Iris was a saint when she found out, especially when Barry was such an arse about it, and put it all on her, like her not being honest about her feelings justified his lies.