Caitlin Snow

[Chicago Redshirt]

If they had shown Caitlin trying to really find out what happened to Ronnie after she first heard what happened, then I could agree with you. But after she found out (from hearsay) that he merged with Stein, she simply gave up and went on a drunken spree. She didn't go to Wells and ask that they work together to try to figure out how to save him. She didn't do ANYTHING but get drunk and make goo-goo eyes at Barry.

Additionally, it was Caitlin who was trying to get Barry to move on from Iris (and she equated her situation with Ronnie with his and Iris') - SHE had to convince HIM to let go - she'd done it pretty much without any interference from anyone else.

I found it jarring and it made it look like the writers weren't committing to the "great love" she supposedly had... instead, they wanted to drop in some shipper bait.

Caitlin, as a character, was sacrificed a bit for shipper bait - because that episode came out of left field. In a previous episode, Caitlin was sitting at a monitor staring at Ronnie's image. Then one episode after she finds out he's merged with Stein, she's ready to drop him?

LOL. And people say Iris' reporting story just popped into existence with no build-up. This was even worse or a much more serious issue, but somehow - with Caitlin, it's fine. Okay.

They did show Caitlin trying to find out what happened to Ronnie. She asked Iris for intel about Burning Man. She had Barry help her research F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M. (and I will never ever refer to that most awkward of acronyms.) And she even encountered Burning Man face-to-face and he told her to stop looking for her. (in a way that might convince a normal person "That's not my fiance.)

 

I wouldn't consider how she found out what happened quite "hearsay." Piper showed video of the merger to Cisco at the police station. Presumably, Caitlin can get a copy of this video either from mad hacking or through Barry or Joe.

 

Wells gave her a hypothesis that the merger involved bringing together the better parts of each -- Stein's mind and Ronnie's body. The facts as Caitlin knew them seemed to fit that hypothesis. There was no reason to believe that Ronnie's mind had survived, or that Ronnie's mind could be restored to his body, or that in fact they might ever see Firestorm again. 

 

I don't fault Caitlin at all for giving up hope at some point.

[bettername2come]

I don't know. I keep wondering what the writers are thinking with her. DP is a stiff actress, imo, but the writers aren't doing her any favors either - one minute we're supposed to buy that she's "cold". The next, she's "maternal", but bossy. The next, she's trying to act just like Felicity. The only part of her story I found believable was her story with Ronnie - UNTIL they threw her into the shipper bait machine and suddenly even THAT was taken away from me.

I think - like we've said in other forums - that Caitlin suffers from the same malaise that Team Flash does - it's got too many influences coming from Arrow. On Arrow, Team Arrow was an organic thing - it wasn't forced. Barry stepped into a ready-made Team Flash.

Honestly, out of all of Team Flash, Caitlin is the one character that seems to be the most confused in terms of the writing. Cisco? Makes sense and has a pretty consistent characterization. Wells? Very consistent characterization.

Caitlin? Jerky characterization. And DP's portrayal doesn't help matters. I still remember that scene with the boomerang on the loose that Cisco lost hold of. DP's running through the shop with her hands flying was just bad. Not even comically bad. Just bad.

I actually think the "cold" aspect versus the "maternal" side makes sense for characterization. She's protective of the team and I think that as the doctor, it makes sense for her to criticize Cisco and Barry's more dangerous ideas, especially in the earlier episodes before they fully understood the extent of Barry's powers. And I think her being cold makes sensed following Ronnie's "death." She's still grieving when we meet her and doesn't want to let new people in. 

 

In terms of characterization, the one that absolutely bugs me is the childish behavior in 1x12 with the "Cisco says I don't have a life!" and the drunk behavior. I hope she and Ronnie aren't done because his storyline brings out some of the best performances (I know Danielle Panabaker and Robbie Amell are two of the more heavily criticized actors on the series, but put those blocks of wood together and I see sparks).

[Trini]

 

I still remember that scene with the boomerang on the loose that Cisco lost hold of. DP's running through the shop with her hands flying was just bad. Not even comically bad. Just bad.

 

Different strokes, I guess. I thought that whole scene was hilarious. Now when I need to illustrate "flail", I have the perfect gif!

[driedfruit]

Caitlin's character eased up to Barry way too soon. And we don't even know how and why she let Cisco in. If I'm supposed to buy her as this cold aloof scientist, how is she so emotionally available for every man that crosses her path? I don't think her actions, being Barry's confidante for example, make a lot of sense for the character. Perhaps a few seasons later, once we've watched her thaw.

 

The writers seem to want to squeeze out multiple female characters and hit dozens of different tropes with her, without bothering to hire more female characters.

[Chicago Redshirt]

From every indication, prior to the particle accelerator explosion, Caitlin was not particularly cold or aloof. She told Barry, and by proxy, the audience that it was the apparent death of her fiance that turned her that way.

 

I think Barry has a way of getting people to loosen up around him. His effect on Ollie, Joe, and even Wells to a certain extent is similar, and none of that is a sexual tension/shipper thing. He just inspires and "thaws" people, generally.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "letting Cisco in." From everything we've seen, she, Ronnie and Cisco were friends for a while. So there was no "being let in."

 

Nor do I understand what you mean by "emotionally available for every man that crosses her path."

 

I don't see Caitlin as Barry's confidante, except in so far as romantic advice.  

[driedfruit]

From every indication, prior to the particle accelerator explosion, Caitlin was not particularly cold or aloof. She told Barry, and by proxy, the audience that it was the apparent death of her fiance that turned her that way.

 

I think Barry has a way of getting people to loosen up around him. His effect on Ollie, Joe, and even Wells to a certain extent is similar, and none of that is a sexual tension/shipper thing. He just inspires and "thaws" people, generally.

 

Grief gave her a personality do over? If her grief was that intense, I fail to see how she reverted to being so emotionally open so quickly and with so little lead in.

 

Even if Barry was the most affable guy out there, that still doesn't explain the big changes in Caitlin's character as the transition was half-cooked and too much too quickly. Caitlin went from distant to spilling her deepest anguish to him on the regular. And then the character mess of 1.12.

 

Even lines they have about her like Barry mentioning how she "bites her lip when she's tense" is random and generic stuff you see in YA novels since Danielle never does that.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "letting Cisco in." From everything we've seen, she, Ronnie and Cisco were friends for a while. So there was no "being let in."

 

Seen? More like told.

 

I don't see Caitlin as Barry's confidante, except in so far as romantic advice.

 

She is certainly there to help with his man pain, which is just odd from my reading of her character.

Edited March 17, 2015 by driedfruit

[Chicago Redshirt]

It is "quick" perhaps if you think about things only in terms of the number of episodes we've spent with the characters. But when you factor a year or so has taken place in show time, that doesn't seem quick at all.

 

Yes, it seems to me reasonable that having your fiance die (along with your once-promising career all but blown up, the knowledge that you are potentially responsible for the deaths of numerous people, etc etc.) could cause PTSD to manifest that would make you seem aloof.  

 

Yes, it also seems reasonable to me that being part of the Flash Mob could help lessen that PTSD, through re-awakening some of her love of science, through being able to help people, and through exposure to Barry's resiliently optimistic personality and through coming to care about him as a friend and maybe more.

 

I don't know what you mean by "emotionally open" necessarily, but from my understanding of the term, Caitlin doesn't seem any more emotionally open than the next person. 

[driedfruit]

It is "quick" perhaps if you think about things only in terms of the number of episodes we've spent with the characters. But when you factor a year or so has taken place in show time, that doesn't seem quick at all.

 

Only four months or so have passed in show time since we first saw Caitlin. The rest of that time is the gap between Barry's first appearances to his coma.

 

Yes, it seems to me reasonable that having your fiance die (along with your once-promising career all but blown up, the knowledge that you are potentially responsible for the deaths of numerous people, etc etc.) could cause PTSD to manifest that would make you seem aloof.

 

Yes, it also seems reasonable to me that being part of the Flash Mob could help lessen that PTSD, through re-awakening some of her love of science, through being able to help people, and through exposure to Barry's resiliently optimistic personality and through coming to care about him as a friend and maybe more.

 

There is no canon to support this.

 

PTSD isn't a light thing to throw around, and definitely not something a character gets over with a little bit of science fun and cheerful people. 

 

I don't know what you mean by "emotionally open" necessarily, but from my understanding of the term, Caitlin doesn't seem any more emotionally open than the next person.

 

Everything about Caitlin used to scream "stay back", even her wardrobe. She started out very professional, chastising Cisco for his inappropriate comments to clients and Barry for his unethical behaviour regarding Iris. I had a hard time seeing that girl be so chummy with her coworkers so quickly, so open to sharing her innermost feelings with them, or to sit around and let them moan to her about their love life. I'll give her the rare occasion those things would happen, under extreme duress, followed by immediate re-lacing of her work boundaries. But not the bounce from one extreme to the other.

 

I like the narrative direction of her becoming more open in time, but those aren't insta-changes. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by driedfruit

[Oscirus]

In terms of characterization, the one that absolutely bugs me is the childish behavior in 1x12 with the "Cisco says I don't have a life!" and the drunk behavior.

 

 

In theory, that part made sense to me. Somebody who has spent  the last year grieving decides that it's finally time to move on and winds up overindulging.  Sadly, the scene doesn't work because the only thing that really changed is that she was dressed really nice that time as opposed to all the other times she's shown at a bar on this show.

 

Caitlin's character eased up to Barry way too soon. And we don't even know how and why she let Cisco in. If I'm supposed to buy her as this cold aloof scientist, how is she so emotionally available for every man that crosses her path? I don't think her actions, being Barry's confidante for example, make a lot of sense for the character.

 

 

Her relationship with Cisco makes sense, he's the only constant in her life and his clownish personality brings light into her dark world. My problem with her relationship with Barry is that it doesn't really feel like she's struggling with the fact that she's falling in love with him despite the fact that a)he's clearly in love with somebody else and b) she's not completely over her fiancée.

 

Caitlin being Barry's confidante doesn't make sense for either side.

 

 

[driedfruit]

Her relationship with Cisco makes sense, he's the only constant in her life and his clownish personality brings light into her dark world. My problem with her relationship with Barry is that it doesn't really feel like she's struggling with the fact that she's falling in love with him despite the fact that a)he's clearly in love with somebody else and b) she's not completely over her fiancée.

 

Caitlin being Barry's confidante doesn't make sense for either side.

 

Caitlin is falling in love with Barry? Did I miss something?

 

I didn't mean to imply that her relationship with Cisco doesn't make sense, but that it hasn't been very developed. They share tender moments (with the focus heavily skewed on Caitlin) and funny buddy moments, but we haven't gotten a lot of background on them. There isn't even a great contrast in the way she treats the Barry vs Cisco, as it would be if Cisco was her longtime friend and Barry the new guy.

[Oscirus]

Caitlin is falling in love with Barry? Did I miss something?

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I assume that the near kiss in Back Out, the comment about nobody making her this mad since Ronny and  "take a peek" were all indications that she was starting to develop feelings for Barry.

[driedfruit]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I assume that the near kiss in Back Out, the comment about nobody making her this mad since Ronny and  "take a peek" were all indications that she was starting to develop feelings for Barry.

 

The peek line does make me think she's at least a little attracted to him. But for her to go from that to love in the near future, considering the depth of her feelings for Ronnie, it would be really odd characterization. But considering CW's trashiness, I wouldn't rule out a season final hook up with both of them on the rebound. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

There is no canon to support this.

 

PTSD isn't a light thing to throw around, and definitely not something a character gets over with a little bit of science fun and cheerful people. 

I think we've reached the point of diminishing returns/agree to disagree.

 

Everything I'd mentioned is taken directly from canon.

 

Caitlin helped build the particle accelerator. That is canon.

 

Caitlin appeared to lose her fiance. That is canon.

 

Caitlin went from being at the cutting edge of science to having Star Labs be the scientific equivalent of a joke/disaster. I think she even explicitly complained about this at one point. That is canon.

 

Some number of people were thought to have died in the particle accelerator explosion. That is canon.

 

If having one's fiance get apparently blown up and nearly being blown up yourself isn't a possible cause for PTSD, I do not know what could be. 

 

Do I think Caitlin is completely over it? No. Knowing that Ronnie is still alive may help, or it may hurt. Since it's not "The Caitlin Snow Show" and since the writers of the Flash have decided to keep angst relatively minimal, I don't know if they will fully explore it. 

 

What I am saying is the changes in her personality do not seem sudden to me if you consider that she had, presumably, 9 months of mourning and coldness before we saw her and then (say) one month of mourning and coldness post-Barry's waking up. The transition to moving on past her dead fiance and so forth makes sense to me as a 10 month transition rather than as a 1 month transition. 

 

Your mileage may vary.

[driedfruit]

If having one's fiance get apparently blown up and nearly being blown up yourself isn't a possible cause for PTSD, I do not know what could be.

 

PTSD isn't guaranteed with trauma as not everyone is susceptible to the disorder. I'm honestly stunned as to where you're getting this from, because Caitlin has never shown symptoms for PTSD.

Edited March 17, 2015 by driedfruit

[Chicago Redshirt]

Here is a list of possible PTSD symptoms:

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20022540

 

Again, YMMV, but we have seen her avoid wanting to discuss the traumatic event. Although she still works at Star Labs, I believe it was explicitly said that she had avoided the place where Ronnie "died." We've frequently seen her be irritable. We saw her drink too much. And of course, we've seen her be emotionally numb. That last one is the coldness we've been discussing. 

 

Again, are we going to get an up-close and personal view of Caitlin's dream life to see if she's having recurring nightmares or flashbacks about the event? Probably not. 

 

And some of it may just be that there's only so much time to spend on any one character, let alone the secondary female lead. Part of it might be that DP is perhaps not the next Meryl Streep. Part of it may be that the Powers that Be want the Flash to be a more uplifting show than, say, Arrow, where everyone on the show probably suffers from PTSD from multiple events (witnessing/hearing about parental murder, earthquake machines, becoming an actual murderer, developing addictions, serving in combat, etc, etc.).

 

I think PTSD is not a wild description of what Caitlin is going through.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[Sakura12]

After seeing Oliver and Sara on Arrow who have shown signs of PTSD, I don't really think Caitlin is suffering from it. She is suffering from grief. I do think after Ronnie told her stay away she was already on her way to accepting he was gone. That was just more confirmation. Could she have done more, probably she is a scientist. I actually thought she would and that is what would make her reach her comic book destiny. 

[ribboninthesky1]

I distinctly remember how, early in the season, Caitlin described how she was before Ronnie.  She mentioned being cold/guarded/uptight...something along those lines.  She said they were fire and ice.  According to her, Ronnie made her smile/laugh.  So I think we were meant to infer that Caitlyn was "cold" before Ronnie.  His death may have exacerbated it, but did not cause her guarded/closed off nature.  How effective that's come across in the writing is a matter of debate, but it's been established that Caitlin was, at minimum, a very guarded person before Ronnie. 

[phoenics]

They did show Caitlin trying to find out what happened to Ronnie. She asked Iris for intel about Burning Man. She had Barry help her research F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M. (and I will never ever refer to that most awkward of acronyms.) And she even encountered Burning Man face-to-face and he told her to stop looking for her. (in a way that might convince a normal person "That's not my fiance.)

 

I wouldn't consider how she found out what happened quite "hearsay." Piper showed video of the merger to Cisco at the police station. Presumably, Caitlin can get a copy of this video either from mad hacking or through Barry or Joe.

 

Wells gave her a hypothesis that the merger involved bringing together the better parts of each -- Stein's mind and Ronnie's body. The facts as Caitlin knew them seemed to fit that hypothesis. There was no reason to believe that Ronnie's mind had survived, or that Ronnie's mind could be restored to his body, or that in fact they might ever see Firestorm again. 

 

I don't fault Caitlin at all for giving up hope at some point.

I meant after she got the hear say from everyone about what happened to Ronnie - I would have liked it if she had tried to find out for herself. I can only compare it to how I would have felt if that was MY fiancé - you don't just give up like that. She gave up after folks told her (in one episode) about Ronnie being merged with Stein (and that was near the end of the episode) and that was that.

Sorry - I just don't buy it. She never even talked to him to try to find out for sure - she went off of hearsay.

My entire post was about what she did AFTER she tracked down the FIRESTORM scientist and all of that. She still didn't know for sure. That's my point. It felt like the writers kinda dropped it for ship bait and as a result, it made Caitlin look like she really didn't care about really finding out for sure what happened to her fiancé and that she gave up on him after hearing one day's worth of hearsay.

Only four months or so have passed in show time since we first saw Caitlin. The rest of that time is the gap between Barry's first appearances to his coma.

 

 

There is no canon to support this.

 

PTSD isn't a light thing to throw around, and definitely not something a character gets over with a little bit of science fun and cheerful people. 

 

 

Everything about Caitlin used to scream "stay back", even her wardrobe. She started out very professional, chastising Cisco for his inappropriate comments to clients and Barry for his unethical behaviour regarding Iris. I had a hard time seeing that girl be so chummy with her coworkers so quickly, so open to sharing her innermost feelings with them, or to sit around and let them moan to her about their love life. I'll give her the rare occasion those things would happen, under extreme duress, followed by immediate re-lacing of her work boundaries. But not the bounce from one extreme to the other.

 

I like the narrative direction of her becoming more open in time, but those aren't insta-changes.

I think the writers were trying to force her into a "Felicity" box - but DP cannot carry that... thankfully they have readjusted and I think Cisco is actually the true Felicity (with his own unique and awesome spin) of Team Flash.

[Oscirus]

Ok last night was just a weird episode for Caitlin. She went from the ice queen , to pretty much the sunniest person in the room. I do hope that her inability to be deceptive becomes a thing. Because that's a fairly compelling weakness to have.

[CabotCove]

I like this (new) Catlin in this latest episode, to me she looked more assertive, calm, unburdened etc.  

Not to mention really hot.  

My guess is that she is feeling more at peace, with Ronnie being alive and well now and/or  DP is settilng more into her role with time and experience. 

I I dont feel she was sunny at all, if anything she felt more "Killer Frost" to me more than ever, close to how I imagined Caitlin Snow to be like. NOT awkward-ish, too sad, shy..

Edited March 20, 2015 by Conell

[Trini]

In the Facebook Q&A, Danielle mentions a little bit about Caitlyn's new attitude post-Firestorm:

 

 

 Caitlin isn't wearing her ring anymore, and she told Cisco she isn't “heartbroken this time”, what does it mean? Why did she take the ring off?

 

 I talked a lot about this with Andrew Kriesberg. We felt that she is moving on with her life and accepting that Ronnie's path might not be in Central City with her. But she's in a good place about it all - she's not as sad as she was at the beginning of the season - DP

[Trini]

Anyone else notice that they've been dressing Caitlyn in a lot of sleeveless tops? Don't know if it means anything, just an interesting change.

[Oscirus]

I'm going to say something I never thought I'd say. Caitlin should probably be the new leader of team Flash. She looks at things more objectively then Cisco and Barry and she has more experience then  Iris.

[Whodunnit]

Hmmm. As has been pointed out, she is already sort of the team mom so it's not that crazy to me.

[Trini]

Danielle interview:

 

9. You also graduated from UCLA at 19 with a degree in English. What is your favorite book you’ve ever read and why? "I always go back to Stargirl, but I also love contemporary American fiction, like Fitzgerald and Hemingway and J.D. Salinger, and all of those. I don’t know if I can pick a favorite though! Recently, I read Steve Jobs’ autobiography and also Candy Girl about Diablo Cody, and I really enjoyed that. She’s an incredibly talented woman and author."

[Trini]

Mazel tov, Caitlyn! Now let's see if your marriage actually carries over into Season 2.

 

And I hope that's not the actual look of Killer Frost; the costume/wardrobe people have been so on point, but that little glimpse was like something out Xena/90's sci-fi.

[Sakura12]

I guess Killer Frost is using Sara's wig since she's not using it anymore. 

[snowbarryvc]

Do you think that Caitlin and Ronnie's marriage will last?

I know about Killer Frost and maybe Caitlin doesn't turn into her...maybe Killer Frost is from a different timeline. That or Ronnie dies again for sure and she becomes this villain. What do you think?

I like Caitlin Snow and DP. I am not sure why people don't like her, but I do. She shows that not all of the female characters on the show are damsels in distress. They can be highly intelligent and pretty at the same time. All this talk about her being inconsistent about her emotions is driving me nuts.

In the beginning, she was cold, but Barry came along and gave Caitlin something new to pursue(maybe why I like snowbarry). Then she got happier and happier. So I don't see the confusion.

[phoenics]

She shows that not all of the female characters on the show are damsels in distress.

Caitlin got captured and literally did nothing but sit there. Meanwhile, Iris got captured twice and actually actively got herself out of it. Oh and she also rescued Caitlin once. It's a completely false statement to imply that the other women on the show are damsels in distress (Iris is really the only other woman on the show who is a regular - actually the female lead) when that's simply not supported by what has aired.

But we can agree that Caitlin is very intelligent and pretty.

[Trini]

I want the marriage to last, but I'm doubtful. Caitlyn just got Ronnie back! It would suck if they only married them to have them end the relationship months later.

 

Killer Frost will probably be from a different timeline; if only because I think she works better on the show as a team member rather than a villain.

 

(And actually, nearly all of the cast members have been "damselled" in this first season. Equal opportunity, yay?)

[phoenics]

Well - Joe more so than any of them, lol.

[snowbarryvc]

I want the marriage to last, but I'm doubtful. Caitlyn just got Ronnie back! It would suck if they only married them to have them end the relationship months later.

 

Killer Frost will probably be from a different timeline; if only because I think she works better on the show as a team member rather than a villain.

 

(And actually, nearly all of the cast members have been "damselled" in this first season. Equal opportunity, yay?)

 

There was some speculation that in Legends of Tomorrow, only Martin Stein appeared in the promo... no Ronnie to be found apparently. So what if he did actually die? There was all these different theories and whatnot, but I think Ronnie is going to die (although he is pretty good looking).

[Trini]

Face injury = new haircut!

[bettername2come]

Those stitches look rough. Bangs are supercute on her though.

[phoenics]

ouch - that looked painful.  Like the bangs tho.

[bettername2come]

I watched some of Danielle Panabaker's other work this weekend and after seeing her as the bad guy on episodes of Medium and Grimm, I'm actually more excited about the possibility of her as Killer Frost. I'd prefer if villainous Caitlin were from an alternate timeline because I don't want to see our Caitlin go dark (or choosing out of character corsets), but I do hope our version gets the ice powers eventually. Because frankly I would love to see all three of them fighting crime with powers and Danielle Panabaker's excitement about the Killer Frost storyline makes me think she would do good work in the role.

[phoenics]

I completely agree with the above.  I think DP's strength is actually in playing a slightly more villainous role.  I hadn't seen her in much before this show (well, at all), but I found some random clips on youtube and I found her to be far less awkward when she played a "villain" per se.  It's the only time I've seen her delivery skew less awkward.  I just don't think comedy is her thing - but villainy might be.

[bettername2come]

I hadn't seen her in much since she was a teen. I liked her back then, and was surprised at how limited her range seemed comparatively on The Flash. But in my crazy Netflix mission, it seemed like most of the weaknesses were exclusive to the role of Caitlin. I think a lack of quality material for the character is a contributing factor.

[Advance35]

I really liked Caitlin's turn in last nights episode.   I find it very believable that a girl like her would have a very narrow vision of what constitutes value and success in the world.    Thinking back, she has consistently come across as cold to people before getting to know them, definitely with Barry, with Felicity and now with Jax.

 

Though her lack of realization in terms of "All that glitters is not always gold" could be her undoing one day.   But I like that she has unpolished edges and its a nice contrast (IMO) to unremarkable Patty and Lana Lang like Iris.

[phoenics]

Actually I think the writers used Caitlin as an audience stand in so they could do a "take that" for the ugly and elitist attitudes some fans have about the non science characters. They basically taught Caitlin a lesson that just because someone isn't a scientist they are still valuable (like Iris, Joe and Jax). Also I thought it was an interesting contrast in showing the value of common smarts over science - especially when passion is ruling logic. Iris didn't just take her mom's word for it or be blinded by the illness. She investigated and found out her mother hid a son. Caitlin went on bias instead and almost cost Stein his life. Oh AND she created a super villain!

Glad Cisco was more thorough. Even Barry looked taken aback by her bias - and oddly enough gave her advice straight from Iris' mouth to his ears in a previous episode. Guess he wasn't lying when he said that even tho Iris didn't know everything she is still with him.

And DP is improving - she actually made me hate Caitlin for her classism and elitism until she grew up. Although - would Cait have apologized if Stein wasn't almost dead? Or would she have just sent someone else?

[VCRTracking]

A lot of Caitlin's attitude was also because Firestorm is Ronnie's legacy and she wants the replacement to be what she believed was ideal.

Edited October 29, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Advance35]

A lot of Caitlin's attitude was also because Firestorm is Ronnie's legacy and she wants the replacement to be what she believed was ideal.

 

That's certainly organic as well.  It was just such a nice character beat in what has started off as a bit of a shaky start to the season.   I've actually been pleased with how Caitlin's been handled so far this  year.   I'm not sold on her being so into Jay at present but everything else....leaving Star Labs, Not Blaming Barry and eventually coming back,  I think the writers are doing well by her this year.

 

I actually really liked Robbie Amell, so I will miss him in the Firestorm role but I like seeing Caitlin form relationships outside of Barry and Cisco.   Though I think the comraderie between the 3 Star Labs characters is a selling point and one of the more appealing aspects of the show.

[bettername2come]

I said "poor Caitlin" way too many times over the course of the last couple episodes to not dig up this thread.This girl is getting the worst breaks - tries to appeal to Zoom's better nature to save Barry, gets kidnapped; tries to team up with doppelganger, doppelganger tries to kill her and gets murdered; tries to convince Zoom to release her, gets whole world taken over. That's what she gets for being proactive.

[Trini]

We'll see how episode 2 goes, but considering how Caitlin was just an afterthought in the premiere, I don't think it bodes well for her the rest of the season.

So that's 1 "Poor Caitlin" down, ...

[bettername2come]

I have to give Danielle Panabaker credit because I laughed way to hard at her "Excuse me, have I been kidnapped?" and "Am I free to go?"

[BaggythePanther]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

We'll see how episode 2 goes, but considering how Caitlin was just an afterthought in the premiere, I don't think it bodes well for her the rest of the season.

I think she might be getting the spotlight at least once this season.

Spoiler

Episode seven (directed by Kevin Smith) is called "Killer Frost".

[Trini]

2 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I think she might be getting the spotlight at least once this season.

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Episode seven (directed by Kevin Smith) is called "Killer Frost".

Yeah, I saw that, and I hope it turns out to be a good story arc for Caitlin/Danielle, but, these writers, man.

[Trini]

Promo photo of the (Earth-1??) Killer Frost Cisco saw in his vibe in "Shade". Compare to Earth-2 KF.

[Trini]

It's disheartening that the producers are stuck on this idea of Caitlin as Killer Frost. I get that they put this character on the show and they knew that they'd eventually do a Killer Frost story. But they did that in Season 2 with the Earth-2 episodes*. We've seen that already. They could have done something different, and nuanced this time with Earth-1 Caitlin -- but no. Caitlin + powers = villain. (The nonsensical personality change with powers I've already ranted about in the "Killer Frost" episode thread.)

I don't know if they eventually plan on 'reforming' her like Capt. Cold or Pied Piper; but she shouldn't be going evil anyway. And if she was, they need much better reasons.

*(And if they liked KF so much, they shouldn't have killed her off.)

Edited January 24, 2017 by Trini

[bettername2come]

I'd like it better if they played it as her powers kill people and she turns emotionally colder to try to distance herself from the pain she's causing rather than making it a full-on split personality type thing. I do think they'll eventually get to a heroic Killer Frost.