Caitlin Snow

[Lisin]

Danielle Panabaker!

[GHScorpiosRule]

I looooooove Danielle Panabaker!!!

 

So good to see her on my screen again!!!!

[Sakura12]

I'm interested in how they deal with Caitlin Snow. 

[Kromm]

Is she or is she not Killer Frost?

 

The way the extended Arrow-verse works sometimes it's hard to figure out which version of a character you'll be dealing with.  Clearly from the extended promo she's far too chirpy to currently be Killer Frosted, but that leaves open the little game we played several times with Arrow where they may play with our expectations... or meet them.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Kromm

[JayKay]

It's interesting that Flash seems like such a happy-go-lucky show, considering that Caitlin Frost will start as one of his most trusted allies and might eventually become his enemy. That could get dark. But I've been a fan of Danielle Panabaker since Sky High, so I already expect for Caitlin to be my favorite character.

[Kromm]

[Maverick]

 So was Killer Frost a friend turned foe in the comics?   Is she somehow related to Captain Cold (who I mainly know from the Superfriends Legion of Doom)?  It's seems odd Flash has two "cold" based villains when his powers aren't heat-based.

[Lisin]

I just opened a topic for questions about the comic and how it (may) relate to the show, I tagged it as spoilers but this isn't a "spoiler" topic for actual show info, just spoilers in the sense that these themes and stories may be played out on the show.

[Potanical Pardon]

Wait. They gave her the last name, Snow?

Aww man. From her appearance in Arrow with

not-yet-Vibe

and her red hair, I presumed that "Caitlin" was Caitlin Fairchild. Boo.

 

So was Killer Frost a friend turned foe in the comics?   Is she somehow related to Captain Cold (who I mainly know from the Superfriends Legion of Doom)?  It's seems odd Flash has two "cold" based villains when his powers aren't heat-based.

Well, seeing how they're playing fast and loose with character relationships on Arrow, I can see how they might do the same with Killer Frost and Captain Cold. Don't forget Weather Wizard is there too.

As for being cold-based in relation to The Flash, The Flash's powers involve speed - excited molecules. Cold slows down that excitement.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Tandaemonium

[The Crazed Spruce]

So was Killer Frost a friend turned foe in the comics?   Is she somehow related to Captain Cold (who I mainly know from the Superfriends Legion of Doom)?  It's seems odd Flash has two "cold" based villains when his powers aren't heat-based.

In the comics, Killer Frost was mainly a Firestorm villain. No relation to the Captain.

[Kromm]

In the comics, Killer Frost was mainly a Firestorm villain. No relation to the Captain.

Given that this stuff is only a year or two old, from DC's goofy universe reboot, it's probably not that big a deal changing that though.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Given that this stuff is only a year or two old, from DC's goofy universe reboot, it's probably not that big a deal changing that though.

I actually meant the original version. I haven't read much of the Nu52 crap.

It's kinda redundant having two villains with freezing powers, though. I could easily see them calling her Captain Cold instead. Nothing about the title "Captain" says it has to be a dude.

[Kromm]

I actually meant the original version. I haven't read much of the Nu52 crap.

Okay, but note that Caitlin Snow is specifically a Nu52 character.  The only reason we're even doing a "is she or is she not Killer Frost" debate is because that name has been used.

 

Really this depends on if the producers want to now consciously do what they kind of stumbled into with Arrow, where they identity switch fates between characters with certain names.  

 

if you think about it though, given that she's not pegged to be the romantic interest as far as we know, having a second young female castmate around kind of limits things for her eventual participation.  Either she gets awkwardly friend-zoned, and gets less and less to do other than technobabble which Tom Cavanaugh's character can probably handle on his own, or she eventually goes bad.  Unless of course the whole purpose of Tom's character is to eventually kick the bucket--something that's certainly got to seem pretty possible given what often happens to "mentor" characters in comics.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Okay, but note that Caitlin Snow is specifically a Nu52 character.  The only reason we're even doing a "is she or is she not Killer Frost" debate is because that name has been used.

Very good point.  I say we table the Killer Frost/Captain Cold discussion until she actually gets freeze powers.  (Or the show starts dropping anvils about giving them to her.  Whichever comes first.)

 

 

 

if you think about it though, given that she's not pegged to be the romantic interest as far as we know, having a second young female castmate around kind of limits things for her eventual participation.  Either she gets awkwardly friend-zoned, and gets less and less to do other than technobabble which Tom Cavanaugh's character can probably handle on his own, or she eventually goes bad.  Unless of course the whole purpose of Tom's character is to eventually kick the bucket--something that's certainly got to seem pretty possible given what often happens to "mentor" characters in comics.

Where is it written that the female assistant/friend/ally has to have an unrequited crush on the hero?  Why can't a guy and a gal on a show just be friends and hang out together without romantic feelings tying into it?  I mean, you didn't see Janet pining for Jack on Three's Company, or Carla making googly eyes at Sam on Cheers, and those shows did okay for themselves.  (Or, if you want a more genre example, how about Councellor Troi and Captain Picard?  Or Uhura and Kirk in the original Trek?)  I say the producers should just establish a platonic friendship between them, and leave it at that.

[FurryFury]

On Arrow, she really, really reminded me of Simmons from Agents of SHIELD, right down to a scientist job and having a male partner/sidekick. The actresses should totally play sisters at some point, they look so similar.

 

I say the producers should just establish a platonic friendship between them, and leave it at that.

 

That's The CW. If enough people ship it, it will become at least a ship tease. Personally, I can only hope the writers won't have yet another Laurel in the form of Iris West, so there won't have to be an Olicity #2.

Edited May 30, 2014 by FurryFury

[fantique]

Yay! I really like this actress so I am happy to see her back on my screen on a regular basis.

I don't read the comics so she is pretty much a blank canvas to me and I will wait to get a feel of her once the show premieres.

 

I was a little cofused after the trailer coming out, when people started talking about her having more chemistry with the male lead than his expected romantic entanglement or already painting her as the Felicity to their doomed Lauriver like vomfest. I didn't see any indications that she is going to be romantically involved with him or even has any kind of interest in him that way. It's hard enough for certain characters to not be around just to fluff up someone else's storyline and romantic angst but if on top of that people already project that onto her that's going to be a problem because in some way or another. Because her appreciation will be lower either because others will see her as a "threat to their chosen ship" or those who don't give a flying rat about shipping (raising my hand) will be annoyed to see the writers' heavy handed attempts to either confirm or deny her shipping possibilities.

 

I think it's sad (well annoying actually) that when a female character is introduced in a show that one of the first things I hear about (from viewers/critics) is chemistry with a male character as if there is no other contribution they could possibly make. TANGENT ALERT (but still relevant, I promise): The reason I like Felicity on Arrow is not because I thought "Ooh, that's the one for Oliver", it was because she brought levity and her geeky, awkward nature was not all that was portrayed by EBR and she was just a pure breath of fresh air. The reason why I am ok with Ollicity is because seeing the two together usually brings out the better qualities (Oliver's more "human" side and Felicity's strength and wisdom) of both characters and I want to like them.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Where is it written that the female assistant/friend/ally has to have an unrequited crush on the hero?  Why can't a guy and a gal on a show just be friends and hang out together without romantic feelings tying into it?  I mean, you didn't see Janet pining for Jack on Three's Company, or Carla making googly eyes at Sam on Cheers, and those shows did okay for themselves.  (Or, if you want a more genre example, how about Councellor Troi and Captain Picard?  Or Uhura and Kirk in the original Trek?)  I say the producers should just establish a platonic friendship between them, and leave it at that.

 

It's been a while, but I do think there was a flirtation Janet felt for Jack. It was just too loose of a show to have anybody "pine" for anyone.

 

Similarly, Carla I'm fairly sure did have some interest in Sam, and there was a joke about it.

 

Troi didn't have romantic feelings for Picard, but she did for Riker that culminated in them getting married in Nemesis. And there certainly were hints of Uhura having a thing for Spock in TOS, and Kirk explicitly wanted to hook up with Yeoman Rand but let his devotion to duty keep him from acting on it. (Although there was some person it was hinted that he hooked up with after the ship's Christmas party.)

 

I think it's common in both real life and fiction for their to be romantic crushes and relationships amongst people who spend tons of time in the workplace or wherever.

[pootlus]

@fantique, I think a lot of your points in your second paragraph can be answered by saying "This show airs on the CW". People are just used to 'stupid romantic entanglements' as a plot device overused by the network so they just assume that it's going to happen. To be honest I haven't seen any indication thus far that this show is any different, but it's early days.

[fantique]

@fantique, I think a lot of your points in your second paragraph can be answered by saying "This show airs on the CW". People are just used to 'stupid romantic entanglements' as a plot device overused by the network so they just assume that it's going to happen. To be honest I haven't seen any indication thus far that this show is any different, but it's early days.

Fair enough, but it still irritates the shit out of me... Shipping/romantic relationships are the last things I think about in my entertainment so it's annoying sometimes when the story is somewhat derailed from its more interesting course because people do/don't want to see certain couples. I have seen people not like a character because they just assume that their presence is synonymous to a more romantic angle. Worse I have seen people proclaim that the only way they register a character getting "equal treatment" as other characters is giving them the same romantic circumstances. Unfortunately sometimes TPTB hear those loud opinions and make interesting characters boring (to me) or even dumb.

 

ETA: that comment also underlines that fact that sometimes I find professional reviewers and magazines' writers say the dumbest things or obviously only look at female characters as romantic interests or dismiss them if their story doesn't involve romance... That just kills me because I am thinking "Seriously? You get payed to write this BS? Are you even trying?"

Edited August 14, 2014 by fantique

[ban1o]

So is she actually going to become Killer Frost on this show? That means she will eventually become a villain right, as Killer Frost is a villain in the comics and is actually firestorm's arch nemesis I think (based on what I read online). And they are making them (ex?)fiances on the show right? I wonder what would drive her to turn to the dark side. 

Edited August 21, 2014 by ban1o

[The Crazed Spruce]

So is she actually going to become Killer Frost on this show? That means she will eventually become a villain right, as Killer Frost is a villain in the comics and is actually firestorm's arch nemesis I think (based on what I read online). And they are making them (ex?)fiances on the show right? I wonder what would drive her to turn to the dark side. 

In the comics,

a part of the original Killer Frost's origin was an unrequited, borderline-obsessive crush on Martin Stein, who was one of the men who merged into Firestorm.  He rejected her shortly before the accident that gave her her powers.

  I predict something similar here.

[CabotCove]

That's The CW. If enough people ship it, it will become at least a ship tease. Personally, I can only hope the writers won't have yet another Laurel in the form of Iris West, so there won't have to be an Olicity #2.

 

The two don't always have to do with the other, some people will end up liking Barry/Caitlin for Barry/Caitlin, for their potential, storyline, chemistry....Its not necessarily a sign that Iris West has failed a character or that she isnt liked, but that they might just prefer someone else more or a certain dynamic better....I think romance, relationships, is an important subplot and part of characters life just like action or any other, its just a problem when it becomes extreme or largely focused on at the expense of other things. IMO. 

Edited August 22, 2014 by Conell

[Actionmage]

I quite enjoyed Caitlin's quiet smackdown of Barry's comments on how bland/blank/focused on her damn work Caitlin's face was.  Caitlin's reason to be there was the work, not how the spandex fit.  For a smart science guy, the writers made Barry very dumb. 

 

I do blame the writers because there were other points and ways to explain why Caitlin isn't trying to sex Barry up hours after he came out of a nine-month coma! Try the next episode? She owed Barry no explanation of why she wasn't all smiles and giggles. She's had a relationship recently, so making her a potential gf for Barry is gross and icky, imo. Let the woman grieve.

 

 With her science background, she and Barry can have a friendship of respect, due to their respective science bases.

 

Danielle Pannabaker is a fun actress and I enjoy her!

[Xantar]

In my fantasy crossover, Kay Panabaker would make an appearance as Caitlin's cousin and upon seeing Barry would remark, "You know, my mom was able to run like that..."

 

(No Ordinary Family was kind of a terrible show, but I loved all the actors in it despite the terrible scriptwriting)

[bettername2come]

In my fantasy crossover, Kay Panabaker would make an appearance as Caitlin's cousin and upon seeing Barry would remark, "You know, my mom was able to run like that..."

 

(No Ordinary Family was kind of a terrible show, but I loved all the actors in it despite the terrible scriptwriting)

I'm waiting for Danielle Panabaker to bust out her plant-growing superpower from Sky High.

[ban1o]

I find Danielle Panabaker's performance kinda wooden and the way she delivers her lines stilted. She's not a bad actress but I hope she improves. 

[FurryFury]

TBH, I expected more from the character. And I certainly didn't think they'd start ship teasing her with Barry so soon :(

[whack-a-mole]

TBH, I expected more from the character. And I certainly didn't think they'd start ship teasing her with Barry so soon :(

Have you seen anything else on the CW ever? It's what they do.

[Kromm]

I find Danielle Panabaker's performance kinda wooden and the way she delivers her lines stilted. She's not a bad actress but I hope she improves. 

Interesting.  I don't find her wooden.  I find her the opposite--a bit over the top.  Not in a gonzo way, mind you, but the angry/grumpy moments haven't had much subtlety to them.

[ban1o]

TBH, I expected more from the character. And I certainly didn't think they'd start ship teasing her with Barry so soon :(

are they really ship teasing her though? I haven't really seen that in the 2 episodes I've seen. 

[wingster55]

are they really ship teasing her though? I haven't really seen that in the 2 episodes I've seen.

 

They haven't done much, but the comment in the pilot about her not smiling leading to her smiling after he defeats the proto Weather Wizard and how her being mad at Barry the way she once was at her fiancee. Kinda subtle actually...not totally blatant actually. 

[arc]

Heh. Maybe I'm too sensitive to this stuff then, because the moment in the second episode seemed anvilly to me.

[FurryFury]

It certainly was obvious enough. I did expect for her to become a love interest eventually, but I wanted it to happen at least a few seasons down the line. I'm also disliking that the only two women on the show are potential love interests for the protagonist. Even Arrow wasn't that bad, and they killed three of the best female characters in one year's span.

Edited October 19, 2014 by FurryFury

[Password]

I really like Caitlyn. I was feeling her in the pilot when she explained to Barry that because of her losses, she doesn't have much to smile about. I immediately wanted Barry to make her smile (because he makes me smile so much). We can see her lightening up a bit so it'll be interesting to see her go frosty and what the show will use to cause that. Whoo hoo Caitlyn.

[arc]

Even without any comics foreshadowing about either her or her fiancé, I feel like it's a lot on-the-nose for someone named "Snow" to say "we were like fire and ice".

[wingster55]

She's not completely bad but I find her to be the weak link of the cast. Her line delivery seems stilted a lot of the time. 

[The Kings Foot]

Im not sure what the point of her character is, other than eye candy.

[Skyline]

Im not sure what the point of her character is, other than eye candy.

Eye candy? I think she's the least attractive female cast member.

[wingster55]

^ Out of 2..isn't really saying much. 

[In2You]

I just can't get into the character. She feels pretty pointless for the most part, almost comes off as motherly towards Barry, has no chemistry with anyone on the team, and Danielle's line delivery is usually the same every week and very wooden.

[phoenics]

I just can't get into the character. She feels pretty pointless for the most part, almost comes off as motherly towards Barry, has no chemistry with anyone on the team, and Danielle's line delivery is usually the same every week and very wooden.

I thought I was the only one. I think the actress has either a nervous tick or she's trying to add it as evidence of Caitlin's geeky and nerdy nature. But it's off-putting to me. It's almost like she's trying to channel EBR's Felicity and failing because she's so ... plain.

I also don't see the chemistry with anyone in the team except to act as a mother hen.

The only one I saw chemistry with was Robbie's character. I think DP dropped a lot of the "trying to be Felicity" stuff in her scenes with him and thus seemed more natural than when she tried to "play a nerd".

Sadly I'm just not interested in her as a character. Maybe she will be better when her fiancé comes back or she goes the KF route. If she does.

[Fabricationary]

She doesn't seem believable as a PhD scientist/doctor/whatever she is supposed to be (and also, from a real world perspective, she's a little too young-looking to be either of those).  She just seems like the resident eye candy who follows Wells around and expresses concern and complains that the ideas being considered are unrealistic or risky.  Like a den mother, as it were.

[quarks]

(and also, from a real world perspective, she's a little too young-looking to be either of those).

 

 

So true, and as a siderant, I really wish shows would do something to acknowledge that sort of thing in show - tell us Caitlin was some sort of young genius who started college at the age of 14 or something and started doing her PhD or MD at 17.  That's also pretty unrealistic, but it does occasionally happen, and in this case, would even help explain exactly how she caught Harrison's eye.  It's a superhero show; I can handle the occasional early-PhD genius.

[Fabricationary]

So true, and as a siderant, I really wish shows would do something to acknowledge that sort of thing in show - tell us Caitlin was some sort of young genius who started college at the age of 14 or something and started doing her PhD or MD at 17.  That's also pretty unrealistic, but it does occasionally happen, and in this case, would even help explain exactly how she caught Harrison's eye.  It's a superhero show; I can handle the occasional early-PhD genius.

 

Agreed.  

 

For anyone who's interested in the more realistic trajectory of PhD or MD degrees - I am 27, the same age as the actress who plays Caitlin.  I finished a PhD in the hard sciences earlier this year, which in my case took 5 years of full-time effort.  Usually in the US, for hard science/life science/engineering, PhD programs take 5-7 years (unlike our European counterparts who finish in ~3 years due to different standards).  Some students start PhD programs at 21-23 years of age, right out of college.  Others start after having completed master's degrees at the same or a different institution.  Following the PhD, the majority of people go on to postdoctoral positions ("postdocs") lasting 2-5 years, where they (usually) switch institutions and research labs and practice being a more independent scientist.  This sets them up for a career in academia or industry (biotech, startup, pharma, etc).   However, the job market for PhDs is actually quite saturated, and often PhDs will do more than 1 postdoc before finding a "real job."  So assuming Caitlin is intended to be a PhD, unless she was a prodigy and finished her PhD at a much younger than normal age as quarks suggested, she would realistically be in her early 30s (assuming a ~5 year PhD and a ~2-3 year postdoc prior to joining on with Wells).

 

If Caitlin is intended to be an MD, again she would have to be in her early 30s realistically-speaking (unless she started a lot earlier than most).  Medical school is 4 years, and the age of students when they start does vary quite a bit.  Some students start at 21-23 right out of college.  Some students start in their mid- to late-20s after getting another degree, doing research, or working in a health-related field for several years.  At the end of medical school, you get "MD" after your name, but you can't actually practice medicine independently until you complete a residency (another 4 years, sometimes longer if you do a fellowship or a research residency) and finish all your licensing criteria.  The youngest practicing doctors I know are in their early 30s.

[HunterHunted]

So true, and as a siderant, I really wish shows would do something to acknowledge that sort of thing in show - tell us Caitlin was some sort of young genius who started college at the age of 14 or something and started doing her PhD or MD at 17. That's also pretty unrealistic, but it does occasionally happen, and in this case, would even help explain exactly how she caught Harrison's eye. It's a superhero show; I can handle the occasional early-PhD genius.

Danielle Panabaker is 27, but she looks younger than that and I think the character is younger than that. I started med school at 19 (I went to one of those rocket doc programs so I know hundreds of doctors who are practicing in their mid 20s) and my brother finished his PhD in engineering at 23. It happens. And aside from superhero shows, a real world Star Labs would probably have a disproportionate number of young PhDs.

Edited November 26, 2014 by HunterHunted

[bettername2come]

So true, and as a siderant, I really wish shows would do something to acknowledge that sort of thing in show - tell us Caitlin was some sort of young genius who started college at the age of 14 or something and started doing her PhD or MD at 17. That's also pretty unrealistic, but it does occasionally happen, and in this case, would even help explain exactly how she caught Harrison's eye. It's a superhero show; I can handle the occasional early-PhD genius.

 

Funny enough, Danielle Panabaker graduated high school at 14 and graduated from UCLA at 19. So in real life, she is that kind of person, minus the post-graduate studies. 

[In2You]

Funny enough, Danielle Panabaker graduated high school at 14 and graduated from UCLA at 19. So in real life, she is that kind of person, minus the post-graduate studies. 

She went to an independent study highschool and did homeschooling as well.

[benteen]

I like Caitlin and think she has good chemistry with Barry.

[Tangerine]

I mentioned this in the Arrow thread, so if you frequent that place I apologize if I'm repeating myself.

I really like Caitlin, but I agree that she's not the easiest character to warm (hah!) up to. For one, it's really hard to get a handle on her character. Wells is the enigmatic, brilliant genius with suspicious intentions that automatically makes him interesting. Cisco, for as irritating as he can be is Barry's "bro" and goofy comic relief. Iris is warm, bubbly, outgoing and an established friend of Barry's. Caitlin is smart and very capable, but her personality is naturally reserved and she's written to be somewhat stand off-ish and closed off.

 

Despite the fact that she's supposed to be Felicity's parallel on this show, I think her personality is closer to Laurel's. They're both angry, suffered tragic losses of a loved one and are guarded and resentful to some degree. But the difference is I think Caitlin has some real warm moments that make her very interesting to me. I know that DP's delivery comes off as stilted and wooden to some, but I think that's a bit of a conscious choice. She mentioned she was rather cold even before Ronnie died and keeping in mind that the accident was only 10 months ago, her wounds are probably still very real and very fresh. In 1x03, when Wells and Cisco first mention the particle accelerator, I bought the panic and anxiety on her face and really felt for her. And she's tied in to the main plots and plays an important role in the crime fighting team. What's interesting to me is that despite suffering such a tragic loss, she chose to stick by Wells and STAR Labs when she had her own personal reasons for washing her hands of him, which says that she does have a strong sense of duty and loyalty.

 

The real challenge might be what exactly the writers have planned for her. If she meets her comic book destiny

then she'll inevitably become evil. Which could be an interesting twist, but one that I would dread because I am a fan of her character. It would have to be done incredibly well because they're establishing a nice friendship between her and the SuperSTARS right now. 

I would much rather see her continue to grow and be an ally to Barry and use her scientific knowledge to be her own kind of 'hero', which is what append with Felicity's character.

 

As for the romance angle, I think her and Barry have very nice friendship chemistry and I could see it develop into something romantic eventually but I'd rather they take their time with it. She just lost her fiancee and in reality, her and Barry are still getting to know one another.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Tangerine

[Oscirus]

candy? I think she's the least attractive female cast member.

 

If she's supposed to be eye candy, I doubt that they'd dress her down so much. I think she's supposed to be the serious counterpoint to Cisco's fan-boy enthusiasm in the lab.  If she wasn't around, Cisco would get old, fast, imo.