Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[Luckylyn]

Look at Mark Paul Gosselar who is half Indonesian.  He is always cast as white based on his looks .  

[Hiyo]

Apparently, his mom is Filipino but born and raised in Indonesia.

Quote

Washington, D.C.: Wikipedia says that you are fluent in Dutch. Is that true? It must be if Wikipedia says it....

Mark-Paul Gosselaar: It's actually a complicated story.  My father is Dutch, but he was born in France and my mother is Filipino, but she was born in Indonesia.  My mother is Filipino and my father is Dutch and at one time I was fluent in Dutch and Tagalog while I was living at home.

 

[possibilities]

I'm sure casting directors don't know or care what his actual heritage is, and are casting Gosselar based on thinking he looks white, though.

[Trini]

Article: 'People with disabilities are nearly invisible in TV and film. Industry insiders point to authentic portrayals of disabled characters as models for inclusion.'

Quote

Disability was in focus during this year's festival and awards circuits. "CODA," a dramedy about a hearing teenager from a deaf family, was the darling of the Sundance Film Festival. Oscar nominees included films that portrayed disability communities, like "Sound of Metal," the documentary "Crip Camp," and the short film "Feeling Through."

These films, which featured actors with disabilities and avoided some harmful and overrepresented stereotypes, signaled progress to some who have fought for decades for inclusion in TV and film.

"Progress is more and more films being recognized for their positive and authentic portrayals of deaf people or people with disabilities," said Marlee Matlin, an Oscar-winning actress who starred in "Coda," and identifies as deaf. "That's not to say that we've achieved everything we've aimed for, but the voices of inclusion are being heard."

People with disabilities are still among the most underrepresented groups in Hollywood. 

 

[Danny Franks]

Sex Education had a paraplegic character in season two, but made him a complete arsehole and the object of vitriolic hate for fans of the show. So I guess that's a good way of allowing a disabled character to be seen on an equal footing with able bodied.

The writers have even talked about wanting to show a sex scene involving the disabled character, to normalise the idea that disabled people can have full lives. Trouble is, the scene is likely to be the result of the character lying and keeping vital information from his likely partner to stop her from getting together with the show's protagonist. Which sort of clashes with George Robinson, the actor playing the disabled character, saying that a key part of dealing with sex as a disabled person is honesty and trust.

[Hiyo]

Quote

So I guess that's a good way of allowing a disabled character to be seen on an equal footing with able bodied.

Glee did something similar with the character of Becky, who had Down's Syndrome.

[starri]

TV in particular has gotten much better with having people with autism portrayed by actors with autism.

Although Sia missed the memo.

[Luckylyn]

One thing I loved about Speechless was that JJ wasn’t perfect.  Sometimes he could make mistakes and be a jerk.  Sometimes people were nice to him when he hadn’t done anything to earn it just because of his disability, and he resented that.  For example, he got applause just for entering the classroom on his first day of school.  I think he called it “Inspiration porn”. There was an episode where a guy exaggerated how close a friend he was to JJ to make himself look good to win a school election.  So JJ and his brother Ray team up to use Ray’s connection to JJ to get Ray to win the election.   In the end, Ray is so annoyed by JJ that instead if saying fake inspirational things about his brother he ends up listing all the ways JJ is a jerk.   What really made it funny was how happy JJ was to see his brother talk bad about him to everyone at school.  JJ would rather people say bad things that were true than fake good things.  It was such a funny show with good but flawed people. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/20/2021 at 6:54 PM, Trini said:

Marlee Matlin, an Oscar-winning actress who starred in "Coda," and identifies as deaf.

Wait is that a terminology that people are using now? Because I know there are degrees of hearing loss but could Marlee Matlin identify as "not deaf"? Because I am not sure that would change her medical condition.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[Trini]

25 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Wait is that a terminology that people are using now? Because I know there are degrees of hearing loss but could Marlee Matlin identify as "not deaf"? Because I am not sure that would change her medical condition.

I think that may be the author's phrasing, and not a common term referring to the deaf/hearing impaired. But someone with better knowledge can correct me.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Wait is that a terminology that people are using now? Because I know there are degrees of hearing loss but could Marlee Matlin identify as "not deaf"? Because I am not sure that would change her medical condition.

It is language that is used within the deaf community based on degree of hearing loss and how involved you are with deaf culture. There is a distinction between deaf, Deaf and hard of hearing. 
https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaf-culture-big-d-small-d-1046233

Edited July 23, 2021 by Guest

[Scarlett45]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:55 PM, Trini said:

I think that may be the author's phrasing, and not a common term referring to the deaf/hearing impaired. But someone with better knowledge can correct me.

Also @Kel Varnsen There is also “deaf”- the physical inability to hear, “Deaf”- being a part of deaf culture and use of sign language to whatever degree the person wishes, and “hard of hearing”. Marlee Matlin has always identified as “Deaf” with a capital D. 

[xaxat]

It think it's kind of weird that Clint Eastwood, of all people, would end his career making a series of movies about a cranky old white guy who finds himself in an awkward relationship with people of color. In some cases playing a reluctant white savior.

Gran Torino

The Mule

And the upcoming Cry Macho

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by xaxat

[AimingforYoko]

Well, crotchety old white guy is kind of in his wheelhouse, wouldn't you say?

37 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Grand Turismo

Boy, that takes me back. One of the better drivers before GTA.

[methodwriter85]

Just watched Danny Glover playing the "Magical Negro who platonically betters a white person's life" stereotype in the 1984 film Places in the Heart. Why is it that we're STILL there when it comes to the movies that Oscars looks at? You could make this in 2021 with Emma Stone and Donald Glover and the Oscars would probably still come calling.

What I did find interesting though is that you saw all these people who looked naturally aged- women with age spots and wrinkles, men with bald spots. You almost never see that anymore, especially with 40-something stars.  Even character actors like Sarah Paulson still botox it up. LOL.

Edited August 16, 2021 by methodwriter85

[xaxat]

13 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

You could make this in 2021 with Emma Stone and Donald Glover and the Oscars would probably still come calling.

Point taken. But I actually like that pitch because Donald Glover would probably subvert the hell of the trope.

And eyeballing the list of Black nominees, while there are certainly Magical Negroes (Daisy, Shawshank etc.) it looks like the biggest genre leading to Oscar noms for Black people is to play a musician. Ray, Ma Rainey (2 nominations for Black actors), Dreamgirls, What's Love Got To Do With It (2 nominations for Black actors) etc. 

And there is already Oscar buzz for Jennifer Hudson playing Aretha Franklin in Respect.

[methodwriter85]

I always thought of Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost as being a Magical Negro, but actually funny and with a personality. So it can be tweaked and made into a real character.

Edited August 17, 2021 by methodwriter85

[proserpina65]

On 3/24/2021 at 3:59 AM, Dani said:

Personally, I’d rather they accurately portray the person in all aspects. That doesn’t mean they have to be exactly the same but it should feel like a roughly accurate representation and Ben just didn’t in that role. It felt like the hair and beard was an attempt to obscure the differences and make him appear somewhat Hispanic. 

I prefer that when making a film about a living person, they go with how that person identifies.  Tony Mendez does not see himself as Hispanic, and hasn't presented himself as Hispanic.  Had he himself felt otherwise, then I'd have criticized the casting of Ben Affleck.  Of course, you pointed out that Argo wouldn't have gotten made without Affleck taking the role, so it wouldn't have existed to argue about.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I prefer that when making a film about a living person, they go with how that person identifies.  Tony Mendez does not see himself as Hispanic, and hasn't presented himself as Hispanic.

What does it even mean to present yourself as Hispanic? Being played by someone with Hispanic origins doesn’t mean playing a Hispanic role. That is my problem with it. Hollywood rarely allows there to be a realistic spectrum of ethnicity.

I don’t have that much of an issue with Affleck playing the role as much as I do with the justification of it. Saying that it was okay because Mendez doesn’t look or act Hispanic is offensive and really shortsighted. Plus the way Affleck was styled made me feel they were trying to make him look more Hispanic. 

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Of course, you pointed out that Argo wouldn't have gotten made without Affleck taking the role, so it wouldn't have existed to argue about.

I think I only said that Affleck made that claim which I think is mostly bullshit. He’s a very successful producer and if he wanted to make the movie starring someone else it would have still existed. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Guest

[Spartan Girl]

Posted in wrong thread. Sorry!

Edited August 18, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 8/15/2021 at 10:45 PM, methodwriter85 said:

What I did find interesting though is that you saw all these people who looked naturally aged- women with age spots and wrinkles, men with bald spots. You almost never see that anymore, especially with 40-something stars.  Even character actors like Sarah Paulson still botox it up. LOL.

I actually find her plastic face and uber-black eyebrows incredibly distracting.  She's the opposite of disappearing into a role.  I just see HER.

[methodwriter85]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I actually find her plastic face and uber-black eyebrows incredibly distracting.  She's the opposite of disappearing into a role.  I just see HER.

I know, that's the weird part. She's a character actress who often does period pieces, but because her face is so plastic it's jarring.

[Scarlett45]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:59 AM, xaxat said:

Point taken. But I actually like that pitch because Donald Glover would probably subvert the hell of the trope.

And eyeballing the list of Black nominees, while there are certainly Magical Negroes (Daisy, Shawshank etc.) it looks like the biggest genre leading to Oscar noms for Black people is to play a musician. Ray, Ma Rainey (2 nominations for Black actors), Dreamgirls, What's Love Got To Do With It (2 nominations for Black actors) etc. 

And there is already Oscar buzz for Jennifer Hudson playing Aretha Franklin in Respect.

I think that plays into the notion that Hollywood doesn’t write interesting and complex black characters (that would lead to an Oscar win) unless they have a real life black person to draw inspiration from.

Which of course isn’t the actor’s fault -although I could argue that when you are playing a person that’s still alive or one there is footage of your research and role prep could be easier.

Would you consider Morgan Freeman in Shawshank a Magical Negro? I wouldn’t. He was the best friend of the protagonist but he was emotional complex and an independent entity.  

[starri]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Would you consider Morgan Freeman in Shawshank a Magical Negro? I wouldn’t. He was the best friend of the protagonist but he was emotional complex and an independent entity.  

He's also racebent.  Red is Irish in Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption.  The movie just happened to cast the best possible actor for that role.  

I also think you could make a pretty convincing argument that Red is actually the main character of the movie.  Yeah, part of his function in the story is to support Andy learning how to navigate the prison, but he also gets things from Andy.  He grows a lot less cynical, even before he finds Andy's letter and heads to Mexico.

[Scarlett45]

Just now, starri said:

He's also racebent.  Red is Irish in Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption.  The movie just happened to cast the best possible actor for that role.  

I also think you could make a pretty convincing argument that Red is actually the main character of the movie.  Yeah, part of his function in the story is to support Andy learning how to navigate the prison, but he also gets things from Andy.  He grows a lot less cynical, even before he finds Andy's letter and heads to Mexico.

I didn’t know that! Thanks for sharing. I always thought Red was the narrator and Andy was the main protagonist. 

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, starri said:

Red is Irish in Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption. 

Thus the nickname.  I love that the movie role ultimately went to Morgan Freeman - as creepy as he turned out to be - instead.  The Shawshank Redemption is, by far, one of the most androcentric films I'll ever watch more than once, and the Andy/Red relationship is the biggest reason why. 

[Scarlett45]

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

Thus the nickname.  I love that the movie role ultimately went to Morgan Freeman - as creepy as he turned out to be - instead.  The Shawshank Redemption is, by far, one of the most androcentric films I'll ever watch more than once, and the Andy/Red relationship is the biggest reason why. 

Morgan Freeman is creepy? What happened?

Yes- I’m not usually a fan of androcentric films but The Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorites. Maybe because the men were allowed to be emotionally complex beings and it focused on male friendship. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Morgan Freeman is creepy? What happened?

Women accuse Morgan Freeman of inappropriate behavior, harassment

There were also rumors that he was romantically involved with is step-granddaughter. They both denied it. She was murdered in 2015 and the man who was convicted of her murder claimed the rumors were true as part of his defense. 

[Scarlett45]

15 hours ago, Dani said:

Women accuse Morgan Freeman of inappropriate behavior, harassment

There were also rumors that he was romantically involved with is step-granddaughter. They both denied it. She was murdered in 2015 and the man who was convicted of her murder claimed the rumors were true as part of his defense. 

I didn’t know this thanks. 
 

When it comes to The Shawshank Redemption perhaps because there are no women characters (does the warden’s secretary even have lines?) the male characters do the emotional lifting for each other and that’s why it’s so good at exploring male emotions and friendship in a complex way. 

[starri]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

When it comes to The Shawshank Redemption perhaps because there are no women characters (does the warden’s secretary even have lines?) the male characters do the emotional lifting for each other and that’s why it’s so good at exploring male emotions and friendship in a complex way. 

It also doesn't really have a lot of homoerotic readings either, which puts a lie to the people who claim that anyone who see those things in close male friendships is just that particular segment of the audience seeing what they want to see.

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, starri said:

It also doesn't really have a lot of homoerotic readings either, which puts a lie to the people who claim that anyone who see those things in close male friendships is just that particular segment of the audience seeing what they want to see.

Yes that is what I love about it, the men are allowed to be emotionally complex beings and it not be all about sex (or romance). When Andy was being sexually harassed by that guy and his gang, Red clues him in and Andy says "I will just have to tell him I am not a homosexual." and Red says "neither is he- you would have to be a human being first." Which I think was a very forward thinking and powerful statement, especially for a film set in a male prison. 

I also love when Red tells Andy that being emotionally unavailable to his wife may have made him a bad husband- but it wasnt his fault she was murdered, "that makes you a bad husband maybe, but not a murder." Its just such a good story about male friendship!

[xaxat]

After reading the comments here, I will give Shawshank a rewatch. I haven't seen it since it first came out.

It's interesting because, looking back, I think a lot of my perception of movies back then with POC was shaped by Public Enemy's song Burn Hollywood Burn. 

 

So yeah, New Jack City? Thumbs up! Shawshank? Aww hell no.

Edited August 25, 2021 by xaxat

[Spartan Girl]

Thandie Newton on why killing off her Solo character was a big mistake

As much as I like Solo she was spot-on. The same argument can be used for Zoe Kravitz’s character in Fantastic Beasts.

[methodwriter85]

Watching Tia Carrere in her prime in True Lies made me wonder what her career might have been like if Hollywood wasn't so damn racist. She might not have had any range but we can't even know that because 1990's Hollywood wouldn't have allowed her to play outside the "Hot Exotic Female" roles anyway. Tia was very beautiful and incredibly charismatic- she did well with the romance bit in Wayne's World but there's zero chance she would have ever been allowed to lead a romantic comedy movie in the 90's, because again, racism.

Anyhoo, here's a video The Take did on the "Loctus Blossom" stereotype:

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by methodwriter85

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Watching Tia Carrere in her prime in True Lies made me wonder what her career might have been like if Hollywood wasn't so damn racist. She might not have had any range but we can't even know that because 1990's Hollywood wouldn't have allowed her to play outside the "Hot Exotic Female" roles anyway. Tia was very beautiful and incredibly charismatic- she did well with the romance bit in Wayne's World but there's zero chance she would have ever been allowed to lead a romantic comedy movie in the 90's, because again, racism

The closest she came to breaking the typecasting was voicing Nani in Lilo and Stitch. She did great in that role. It’s too bad she couldn’t get more of those in live action movies.

I love that video from The Take. There were plans to make a film adaptation of Miss Saigon. I don’t know if that’s still going to happen, but I don’t think it’s the best idea right now considering…well, the video summed it up better than I could.

[starri]

I'm prefacing this by acknowledging that I'm seeing this from the perspective of a white man and not an AAPI woman, but, acknowledging the huge problem that Hollywood has with AAPI actors, particularly women, I'm not sure Tia Carrere is the best example.  She might not have been a huge star, but she's worked very consistently, even if it's not in high-profile stuff.  That's more than most actors get.  And TBH, I never really thought she was the best actor.

She's also a contemporary of Tamlyn Tomita and Ming-Na, both of whom carved out decent careers.  And Lucy Liu, a bit later.  And Liu, I think, is a good example of someone who didn't fall into the stereotype, because thinking of everything I've seen her in, I don't remember any part that she played that specifically hinged on her being Asian.  Even in Charlie's Angels where she ended up in a little stereotypical wire-fu, her character was offered to both Angelina Jolie and Jada Pinkett Smith, and Thandiwe Newton was actually cast, before needing to drop out.

This is not to say that even if things have gotten a little better, we still don't have a long way to go.  I'm just not sure that you can point to any one particular actor.  It's more a gestalt of terrible.

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Watching Tia Carrere in her prime in True Lies made me wonder what her career might have been like if Hollywood wasn't so damn racist. She might not have had any range but we can't even know that because 1990's Hollywood wouldn't have allowed her to play outside the "Hot Exotic Female" roles anyway. Tia was very beautiful and incredibly charismatic- she did well with the romance bit in Wayne's World but there's zero chance she would have ever been allowed to lead a romantic comedy movie in the 90's, because again, racism.

Anyhoo, here's a video The Take did on the "Loctus Blossom" stereotype:

 

Something that I love about Mike Myers is that he sometimes put non-white love interests in his films.  Tia Carrere got to lead a big comedy franchise in Wayne's World and he put Beyonce in one of his Austin Powers movies too.  The Wayne's World thing was such a huge deal.  In 1992/1993 you never saw things like that.  

1 hour ago, starri said:

I'm prefacing this by acknowledging that I'm seeing this from the perspective of a white man and not an AAPI woman, but, acknowledging the huge problem that Hollywood has with AAPI actors, particularly women, I'm not sure Tia Carrere is the best example.  She might not have been a huge star, but she's worked very consistently, even if it's not in high-profile stuff.  That's more than most actors get.  And TBH, I never really thought she was the best actor.

Tia is incredibly beautiful and charismatic though.  I also remember her being a love interest in High School High and Jury Duty.  She deserved those roles.  I don't think she was a bad actor at all and she more than held her own in the WW movies.  She even convincingly played a rock star and was bilingual in the films.

I totally side with @methodwriter85 that she should have been an even bigger star than she was.

1 hour ago, starri said:

She's also a contemporary of Tamlyn Tomita and Ming-Na, both of whom carved out decent careers.  And Lucy Liu, a bit later.  And Liu, I think, is a good example of someone who didn't fall into the stereotype, because thinking of everything I've seen her in, I don't remember any part that she played that specifically hinged on her being Asian.  Even in Charlie's Angels where she ended up in a little stereotypical wire-fu, her character was offered to both Angelina Jolie and Jada Pinkett Smith, and Thandiwe Newton was actually cast, before needing to drop out.

I'm a huge fan (stan) of Lucy Liu but she received a looooooooooot of criticism for playing a dragon lady stereotype on Ally McBeal.  I absolutely loved Ling Woo and Lucy in the role though.  I don't blame her for Hollywood's constraints.  

Thandie had to leave the movie because of the producer's racism towards her I believe.  

Edited August 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Guest]

4 hours ago, starri said:

 

I'm prefacing this by acknowledging that I'm seeing this from the perspective of a white man and not an AAPI woman, but, acknowledging the huge problem that Hollywood has with AAPI actors, particularly women, I'm not sure Tia Carrere is the best example.  She might not have been a huge star, but she's worked very consistently, even if it's not in high-profile stuff.  That's more than most actors get.  And TBH, I never really thought she was the best actor.

She's also a contemporary of Tamlyn Tomita and Ming-Na, both of whom carved out decent careers.  And Lucy Liu, a bit later.  And Liu, I think, is a good example of someone who didn't fall into the stereotype, because thinking of everything I've seen her in, I don't remember any part that she played that specifically hinged on her being Asian.  Even in Charlie's Angels where she ended up in a little stereotypical wire-fu, her character was offered to both Angelina Jolie and Jada Pinkett Smith, and Thandiwe Newton was actually cast, before needing to drop out.

 

I think that any actor or actress who is AAPI and who has had a decent career is a perfect example because they largely hit the pinnacle of what is possible for them in Hollywood.  

[starri]

It's getting on toward Halloween, and Elvira, Mistress of the Dark (or rather, the still incredibly put-together Cassandra Peterson) has come out ("of the coffin" according to one website) about her long-time girlfriend, so it's time again for me to reflect on horror being the queerest of genres.

And not just because Jesse from Nightmare on Elm Street 2 responds to a seduction attempt from his girlfriend by running to get into bed with his shirtless male friend.  Or Billy and Stu penetrating each other (with knives) in Scream.  Or even the great horror divas that we want to see win, like the titular Mary Lou in Prom Night 2 ("Many boys.  Many times.").

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Luckylyn]

Here's why Steven Spielberg's 'West Side Story' reimagined a key character as transgender

[Spartan Girl]

13 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

Here's why Steven Spielberg's 'West Side Story' reimagined a key character as transgender

Making Anybodys into a transgender character wasn’t that big of a stretch. A lot of people that were thought of as “tomboys” could have been easily been trans. This version just drew the line more clearly.

And it’s a bold move by Spielberg and Kushner to emphasize how even marginalized people seeking acceptance can be sucked into white supremacy.

[methodwriter85]

 

On 8/29/2021 at 11:20 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Tia is incredibly beautiful and charismatic though.  I also remember her being a love interest in High School High and Jury Duty.  She deserved those roles.  I don't think she was a bad actor at all and she more than held her own in the WW movies.  She even convincingly played a rock star and was bilingual in the films.

I totally side with @methodwriter85 that she should have been an even bigger star than she was.

Yeah, I get what Starri is trying to say about it not being tragic that Tia Carrere didn't get to be an A-list movie star, but my point is that we really don't know what she might have been capable of. We really don't know what Tia's actual range was because she never got the chance. For the most part, Tia had to play either Dragon Ladies or Loctus Blossoms and thus we never really got to see the extent of what Tia could do. Hollywood was never going to cast her to lead Shakespeare in Love or Pretty Women or While You Were Sleeping or any of the many mid-budget romantic comedies/dramas that 90's/00's white or white-passing  starlets used to build their careers. 

Anyway, back to queerland...

Josh O'Connor and Paul Mescal set to star in gay-themed WWI drama

I hope it's good. Josh O'Connor sure as hell didn't hold back on the intimacy in God's Own Country and here's hoping they have good chemistry together.

Rowan Blanchard called bi-phobic by queer romcom co-star Auli’i Cravalho

I'm glad Cravalho felt empowered enough to call out Blanchard, but man, this makes me think this movie will be more about Making An Important Statement rather than them actually making sure the leads have chemistry together. That was my issue with Love Simon.

I also think whatever future press junket they have will be awkward, although I don't know how extensive promoting will be for a Hulu movie.

Edited December 14, 2021 by methodwriter85

[Ms Blue Jay]

Tia did all her own singing in Wayne's World too.

And starred in a Canadian action TV series called "Relic Hunter" for 3 seasons.  And yet she still had untapped potential.

She was on a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode a few years ago and still was as funny and sexy as ever.

There are a lot of white actors out there who are way less talented than Tia but get opportunity after opportunity.  Tia is not the one to blame for her career.

While this is not related to Tia's career, let's look at the casting for "Oblivion", 2013, a SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE WHERE IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT RACE YOU ARE

Quote

For casting the lead role of Julia opposite Cruise, the producers considered five actresses: Jessica Chastain, Olivia Wilde, Brit Marling, Noomi Rapace and Olga Kurylenko, and all five auditioned on August 27, 2011.[19] On September 26, 2011, it was announced that Chastain had been cast.[20] Chastain was subsequently offered the lead role in the Kathryn Bigelow film Zero Dark Thirty and Tom Cruise let her be released from her contract for Oblivion in order to make the other film, for which Chastain has publicly thanked Cruise.[21] The role was later recast with Kurylenko.[22]

The only qualification for auditioning here is that the women be white, attractive, and under 30.  How do nonwhite women have a chance in Hollywood when this is how things are cast? 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

Tia did all her own singing in Wayne's World too.

And starred in a Canadian action TV series called "Relic Hunter" for 3 seasons.  And yet she still had untapped potential.

She was on a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode a few years ago and still was as funny and sexy as ever.

There are a lot of white actors out there who are way less talented than Tia but get opportunity after opportunity.  Tia is not the one to blame for her career.

 

Exactly. When you are not starting with a level playing field because of race it’s impossible to use talent as a measuring stick. You just have to look at the top AAPI actors to see how limited the opportunities are. 

Sandra Oh is universally seen as an amazing actress. In every role she is considered an award contender. Not long ago I read an interview where she said that when was offered Killing Eve she was confused about what role they were offering her because she didn’t think she would be offered a central role. Can you even imagine a white actress of her caliber and reputation automatically assuming they weren’t going to be the lead in a project?

Any AAPI actor that has had a successful enough career to be a recognizable name would definitely be a bigger star if they weren’t contending with racism. 

[methodwriter85]

Didn't they basically shove Sandra Oh to the corner of her own show because everybody just ohhed and awed over Jodie Comer?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Didn't they basically shove Sandra Oh to the corner of her own show because everybody just ohhed and awed over Jodie Comer?

More because the complete lack of diversity in the writing staff resulted in what it nearly always results in and certain characters are pushed to the side. Writers seem to fall in love with writing for certain characters and, human nature being what it is, that character is usually the one they relate to in some way. Characters who don’t have a voice in the writing staff are marginalized. 

Or the TLDR version. Systemic racism is a massive problem in Hollywood even when there is diversity in front of the screen. 

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, Dani said:

Or the TLDR version. Systemic racism is a massive problem in Hollywood even when there is diversity in front of the screen. 

Yeah, I haven't watched the new Gossip Girl reboot but apparently the show that is supposed to be about two black sisters and their rivalries is instead about a sanctimonious white teacher lady who terrorizes her students and a bored white blonde girl in a thruple.

Edited December 18, 2021 by methodwriter85

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/17/2021 at 11:01 PM, methodwriter85 said:

Yeah, I haven't watched the new Gossip Girl reboot but apparently the show that is supposed to be about two black sisters and their rivalries is instead about a sanctimonious white teacher lady who terrorizes her students and a bored white blonde girl in a thruple.

True.  But I do know that they hired Hunter Harris to write for the next season of GG and Hunter is a Black woman.  I think they are perhaps listening to the criticisms?  Who knows.  Time will tell.  

[methodwriter85]

20 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

True.  But I do know that they hired Hunter Harris to write for the next season of GG and Hunter is a Black woman.  I think they are perhaps listening to the criticisms?  Who knows.  Time will tell.  

I do think that reboots/remakes that specifically justify their existence by claiming to be much more diverse and representative than the original really open themselves up to more criticism. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by methodwriter85

[Ms Blue Jay]

Well there is also so much social media now and people are a lot more in the know about activism.  I don't recall the new GG "claiming" to be much more diverse - it simply is.  Three Black female characters in the main cast and one of the actors in the main cast is Mexican and Trans.  Aki is Asian.  Etc.  It just is more diverse.  Period.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay