Disappeared

[bubbls]

I've seen this episode several times and always thought Alexis seemed genuine. Until it was mentioned here though I'd never considered Joey may have committed suicide. That makes a lot of sense to me. 

[KellsBells]

On 3/30/2017 at 4:55 PM, Surrealist said:

When the son mentioned that, I immediately thought of early onset Alzheimer's. 

I did until later in the program when they talked about how many drugs she was popping. Then I thought it was that she was too whacked out to know where she was. 

[mamadrama]

Macin Smith...not sure about this one. I am thinking either a suicide that hasn't yet been found or a runaway that got caught up in something. Gay prostitue crossed my mind more than once. As did cult.

[Surrealist]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Macin Smith...not sure about this one. I am thinking either a suicide that hasn't yet been found or a runaway that got caught up in something. Gay prostitue crossed my mind more than once. As did cult.

I was leaning more toward suicide, since he had discussed (attempted?) it in the past.

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Surrealist said:

I was leaning more toward suicide, since he had discussed (attempted?) it in the past.

I have to wonder if he wandered off somewhere in the desert, perhaps just to take a walk and clear his head, and succumbed to the elements. There was another DISAPPEARED case like that. It aired last year, I believe. The guy was having mental health problems and even though they had a massive search, his body wasn't found until a year or two later. I think he was into BMX? Since Macin was't from Utah, he might have underestimated the weather and conditions. 

[Guest]

Quick question regarding Macin Smith episode.

Before a commercial the announcer said the what the family "found" only deepened the mystery.  Of course I fell asleep for twenty minutes and cannot find what the family found.  For some reason I think it was a letter.

Can anyone help me with this?  Thanks.

[mrsbagnet]

They found a letter in his wallet. The contents were so personal that the family chose not to reveal them publicly, but they did contain the words "I'm done." The letter implied that he'd been having a hard time for a long time. They didn't know how much he'd been suffering.

[mamadrama]

I think the family missed the point of the "gay" question. They said that some online posters were speculating as to his sexual orientation and the mother was like, "So what? So what if he was gay? We'd still love him anyway!" But I think the idea is certainly a valid one to explore and not write off so quickly. If he were gay and living in a religious household then he might have been feeling some anxiety and depression over the fact. That could certainly have contributed to his state of mind. If he feared not being accepted, of being ridiculed, etc. then I can totally see how his alleged homosexuality would matter to him. It could have caused him to a) run away or b) attempt suicide. In my area, which is very conservative and religious, gay young people have a very high rate of suicide and depression. It's a sad fact and something we are trying to change through outreach programs. 

I know the family was dismissive of the idea because they were simply focused on the idea of their unconditional love, but I think it's worthwhile for them to put themselves in his shoes for a moment and wonder, if it were true, how it might have been affecting his state of mind and emotional health. 

[Surrealist]

4 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I have to wonder if he wandered off somewhere in the desert, perhaps just to take a walk and clear his head, and succumbed to the elements. There was another DISAPPEARED case like that. It aired last year, I believe. The guy was having mental health problems and even though they had a massive search, his body wasn't found until a year or two later. I think he was into BMX? Since Macin was't from Utah, he might have underestimated the weather and conditions. 

I was thinking the same. I don't believe he was murdered. At any rate, it's a sad case because the young man was clearly troubled and felt alone. I agree that the mother missed the point of and underestimated the possibility that Macin might have been struggling with being gay. They do live in a more conservative and religious area, so if Macin is/was gay, then he would have had some difficulty. It's not just his parents and siblings he'd have to deal with after coming out.

I remember which case you are talking about: Brian Histand. That was the one where one of his coworkers snapped a picture of him sitting besides the road, but didn't help him.

Although I have known about many of the cases covered on Disappeared. I only started watching the show last year. I'm glad that all the episodes are available through On Demand. Once I start watching an episode, I have to watch more of them back-to-back. It's addictive. I'm almost caught up on all the seasons. It's a great show, although the topic is depressing.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Surrealist

[mamadrama]

39 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

I was thinking the same. I don't believe he was murdered. At any rate, it's a sad case because the young man was clearly troubled and felt alone. I agree that the mother missed the point of and underestimated the possibility that Macin might have been struggling with being gay. They do live in a more conservative and religious area, so if Macin is/was gay, then he would have had some difficulty. It's not just his parents and siblings he'd have to deal with after coming out.

I remember which case you are talking about: Brian Histand. That was the one where one of his coworkers snapped a picture of him sitting besides the road, but didn't help him.

Although I have known about many of the cases covered on Disappeared. I only started watching the show last year. I'm glad that all the episodes are available through On Demand. Once I start watching an episode, I have to watch more of them back-to-back. It's addictive. I'm almost caught up on all the seasons. It's a great show, although the topic is depressing.

That's right, Brian. I felt so sorry listening to his dad talk about that last picture of him. He clearly needed help. Poor fellow. 

DISAPPEARED is a great show. It's probably one of my favorite. The first one I watched was about 5 years ago and followed the Jamison family. Their bodies were eventually found. I don't know if the show updated or not. That case was crazy as hell. We suspected everything from aliens to drug cartels. 

[peachybean]

I agree that suicide is the most likely option for what happened to Macin. I can't imagine the feelings that his dad has about his punishment- when dad was tired and likely frustrated- starting this. 

About Macin being gay. It wasn't clear to me how credible those rumors are. If they were only coming in anonymously on the Facebook page, then I don't consider that a factor. He was a new kid at school who was quiet and had odd (to some people) interests. Easy target.

The fact that he was dragging his feet on driving stood out to me. I've never known a non-driving teenager- outside of urban areas- that wasn't off in some way. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by peachybean
To clarify

[KellsBells]

1 hour ago, peachybean said:

The fact that he was dragging his feet on driving stood out to me. I've never known a non-driving teenager- outside of urban areas- that wasn't off in some way. 

My son was not interested in learning how to drive. He and I had been in a head on collision a year or so before he was supposed to start practicing and he was just like, NOPE! It took a lot of patience. My other two couldn't wait to start driving. 

And, to stay on topic, I think suicide and I think they also missed the point of the gay issue. I know two conservative families (one Mormon, one Christian) that have had gay teens commit suicide because they were so conflicted and felt so dirty. The parents, after the fact, said they would have love them unconditionally, but the kids were so conflicted that they couldn't even begin to know how to present this. 

[peachybean]

4 hours ago, KellsBells said:

My son was not interested in learning how to drive. He and I had been in a head on collision a year or so before he was supposed to start practicing and he was just like, NOPE! It took a lot of patience. My other two couldn't wait to start driving. 

And, to stay on topic, I think suicide and I think they also missed the point of the gay issue. I know two conservative families (one Mormon, one Christian) that have had gay teens commit suicide because they were so conflicted and felt so dirty. The parents, after the fact, said they would have love them unconditionally, but the kids were so conflicted that they couldn't even begin to know how to present this.

You're right. A traumatic experience like a crash is another reason to be hesitant to drive. 

I agree that the mom seemed to miss the implications of Macin being gay. I just don't know that I put a lot of stock in the rumors. He seemed so socially withdrawn and they didn't mention friends (which they often do in the episodes). Maybe he didn't show "enough" interest in girls- he is a cute kid and judgy high schoolers drew their own conclusions. Not sure. 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

They found a letter in his wallet. The contents were so personal that the family chose not to reveal them publicly, but they did contain the words "I'm done." The letter implied that he'd been having a hard time for a long time. They didn't know how much he'd been suffering.

Thank you MrsBagnet. 

I was very curious about it and also aggravated that I dozed for twenty minutes.

[KellsBells]

18 hours ago, peachybean said:

He seemed so socially withdrawn and they didn't mention friends (which they often do in the episodes). Maybe he didn't show "enough" interest in girls- he is a cute kid and judgy high schoolers drew their own conclusions. Not sure. 

I noticed that too. When they looked at his phone, he had no texts, no emails, nothing. He must have been terribly lonely, poor kid. 

[badhaggis]

On 9/23/2016 at 8:16 AM, Josette said:

Kara Kopetsky,  who went missing in 2007, was the ex-girlfriend of Kylr Yust.  Now, Jessica Runions is missing and she was last seen with Kylr Yust.  He's been arrested for burning her car.

Kara's episode was called "Gone at 17" and originally aired on December 27, 2010.

The police have found two sets of human remains. They believe they will be identified as Kara and Jessica.

[Kitty Redstone]

Poor Macin.  Like some of you, I think he either committed suicide or died accidentally in an environment he misjudged.  It's difficult enough to find a body in the desert when there's a general area to search (Brian Histand's body was missed again and again in exactly the area he was last seen), much less when the search area is unknown.

It sounds like the parents were loving but pushing him to do "normal" teen stuff that had worked with their other children (getting a job, learning to drive, earning privileges with good grades).  Regardless of whether Macin was gay or straight, this kid felt pressure to be like everyone else and it wasn't a path he was ready or able to follow.  He must have felt very alone.

[azshadowwalker]

Finally saw the Macin Smith episode. Where do you start? Mormon kid whose sexuality was being questioned by outsiders. Parents up and move him right before his senior year of high school when he had questions about whether he wanted to leave. He is already depressed. Dad's not around except when he drops in and starts laying down rules. (Who cares if the kid didn't want to drive, ffs. That seemed like something important to his dad, not him.) Kid is doing well in school, but it's not enough for daddy. Get a job, kid. Mom's depression drives move to Bum Fuck, Utah  (yes, I have been to St. George), so who knows how much attention she's paying to the signs. Kid takes no money. Yeah, he is dead. That time of year, I don't think it was exposure of any kind. I think he killed himself. Poor kid. 

[Guest]

Agree with everyone who thinks Macin committed suicide. I've a tendency to also think he was gay -- and that was what he wrote in the note he kept in his wallet -- the contents "too painful" for his parents to share publicly. 

I did have a laugh about the mother talking about Macin's "addiction" to anime as if it were some sort of weird affliction. The kid liked anime - what's the big deal? 

[marina707]

This one was really sad.

It reminded me a lot of the Andrew Gosden case: teenage boy who has "weird" interests, a conservative family, and is rumored to be gay makes his family think he's gone to school and takes off.

I think he probably was gay. I can't remember specifically what it was now, but there was something early on in the episode that made me think that even before they brought it up. Also, the part of the letter that they did read included something along the lines of him thinking he wasn't a good person, and that's easily something I can see a gay kid thinking growing up in a conservative Mormon family.

I agree with everyone else that his mom was missing the point when she said it didn't matter if he was gay or not. Even if it was true that she wouldn't have cared, that doesn't mean her husband would've felt the same way, and even if they both would've been fine with it, obviously Macin didn't believe he would be accepted. If he was gay, I have no doubt that that was the biggest factor in his disappearance.

But whether he was gay or not, he obviously didn't feel like he fit in with his family. (The narrator mentioned he was agnostic while the rest of his family were Mormons, he didn't seem to care about driving, and the anime/video games.) The one cop and his mom both mentioned thinking he'd come back when he turned 18, but I didn't find it surprising at all that he didn't if he was still alive at that point. Turning 18 wouldn't magically change his family into people he felt comfortable around or felt accepted by, and if that was how he felt, I don't blame him at all (it's entirely reasonable to think your family wouldn't accept you being gay given how they acted like watching anime was some horrible, shameful thing).

I feel like if we knew more of what the letter said (although I completely understand that it's private and his parents didn't want to release it publicly) it'd be easier to say for sure whether he committed suicide or not. It not being left in an easier to find place was odd, and I don't think "I'm done" necessarily points to suicide without more context. I don't think he necessarily committed suicide, although it's entirely likely he died in some other way once he left. I've read of so many cases of people trying to get away from situations where they just didn't feel accepted/supported/loved by their families or like they belonged, and in the majority of them, the person probably is dead (whether by suicide or some other way), but I can't help but hope that they all just went far away and started over and are living happy lives elsewhere now. I know that's probably just wishful thinking on my part, though.

 

On 4/3/2017 at 11:41 PM, peachybean said:

The fact that he was dragging his feet on driving stood out to me. I've never known a non-driving teenager- outside of urban areas- that wasn't off in some way.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "off" (unless you mean just "not typical/'normal'" but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing). I didn't drive until I was 19. I had no specific reasons, no car-related trauma, I just wasn't interested. Once I did start driving I loved it, but it's not for everyone.

On 4/5/2017 at 6:13 PM, Kitty Redstone said:

It sounds like the parents were loving but pushing him to do "normal" teen stuff that had worked with their other children (getting a job, learning to drive, earning privileges with good grades).  Regardless of whether Macin was gay or straight, this kid felt pressure to be like everyone else and it wasn't a path he was ready or able to follow.  He must have felt very alone.

I know what that pressure's like, and I felt horrible for him. As a "weird" kid with strange interests who doesn't care about typical teenage things with a "normal", popular sibling, it's hard (and it has to be significantly harder when you have five of those "normal" siblings). I don't think it was intentional on the part of my parents (they've always said they don't care what I do or don't do in life, as long as I'm happy), but that doesn't mean I didn't still feel the pressure to be like everyone else. I was never suicidal over it, but for someone with a history of depression, it's incredibly easy to see how feeling that way could lead to suicide.

5 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

Finally saw the Macin Smith episode. Where do you start? Mormon kid whose sexuality was being questioned by outsiders. Parents up and move him right before his senior year of high school when he had questions about whether he wanted to leave. He is already depressed. Dad's not around except when he drops in and starts laying down rules. (Who cares if the kid didn't want to drive, ffs. That seemed like something important to his dad, not him.) Kid is doing well in school, but it's not enough for daddy. Get a job, kid. Mom's depression drives move to Bum Fuck, Utah  (yes, I have been to St. George), so who knows how much attention she's paying to the signs. Kid takes no money. Yeah, he is dead. That time of year, I don't think it was exposure of any kind. I think he killed himself. Poor kid. 

I've known several people like his parents. (Well, like they seemed to be on the show. I'm not saying I'm 100% correct in this opinion because I don't know them, and I'm just going by how they came across on the episode, but.) They're super strict, and it's all about appearances with them, being seen as the "perfect family" with perfect, "normal" kids, who are almost more props than separate human beings with their own personalities, likes/dislikes, and plans for their futures. I'm not saying they're bad people because they may not know any better (if it worked for their other five kids, why not Macin?) but it's gotta be incredibly difficult being a kid who's even a little different in a family/environment like that. Not even counting him being gay if he was, but just his general personality, from what we saw. I don't remember the exact wording, but there was something his mom said about "responsibilities" where it was implied that it was his "responsibility" to be "normal", and I felt awful for him.

28 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Agree with everyone who thinks Macin committed suicide. I've a tendency to also think he was gay -- and that was what he wrote in the note he kept in his wallet -- the contents "too painful" for his parents to share publicly. 

I did have a laugh about the mother talking about Macin's "addiction" to anime as if it were some sort of weird affliction. The kid liked anime - what's the big deal? 

Unfortunately, I think I agree, too, although I want to think he's off somewhere living a happy life. I'm not sure what I think is in that letter. I tend to think it's probably pretty vague, but maybe heavily hints towards him being gay. Despite his parents (or at least his mom) claiming they'd have no problem with it, I think they probably wouldn't want to share if that was what it said. I think his mom did seem pretty defensive over the possibility of him being gay. Or maybe it was a rant about his parents, saying he was going to commit suicide and blaming them for it or something along those lines. I definitely get why that would be too painful to share.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. The way they acted over the anime (and I think he was into video games, too, if I'm remembering right) was way over the top. They were acting like he was addicted to crack or something and it was this shameful secret.

[azshadowwalker]

I think they said mom and all the kids (including Macin) were Mormon, but dad was agnostic. Kind of weird that we only saw a clip of a news interview with dad. He seemed very remote as far as his family went--from religious beliefs to working away from home to not taking part in the program. 

I tend to think the letter blamed his parents for making him feel like a freak who couldn't do anything right. That's why they wouldn't make it public. 

[marina707]

15 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

I think they said mom and all the kids (including Macin) were Mormon, but dad was agnostic. Kind of weird that we only saw a clip of a news interview with dad. He seemed very remote as far as his family went--from religious beliefs to working away from home to not taking part in the program. 

I tend to think the letter blamed his parents for making him feel like a freak who couldn't do anything right. That's why they wouldn't make it public. 

Did they? I guess I thought they said it was Macin who was agnostic because that made more sense to me; it was just one more thing that made him an outsider in his family.

Yeah, I think that's what I'm leaning towards right now, too.

[KellsBells]

2 hours ago, marina707 said:

The one cop and his mom both mentioned thinking he'd come back when he turned 18, but I didn't find it surprising at all that he didn't if he was still alive at that point. Turning 18 wouldn't magically change his family into people he felt comfortable around or felt accepted by, and if that was how he felt, I don't blame him at all (it's entirely reasonable to think your family wouldn't accept you being gay given how they acted like watching anime was some horrible, shameful thing).

That's a very good point. I had forgotten they thought that, but I remember thinking about my oldest daughter who, when was about to turn 18, thought all of a sudden she was going to have all this unlimited freedom and I just laughed. She was still in school and still in my house and still had to follow house rules -- and I wasn't even a particularly strict parent, quite the opposite, in fact. And she totally got it when I told her that, she even thought it was kind of funny that she had thought 18 was this magic "freedom" number. I also think it's correct that it was the father, not Macin, who was the agnostic. And I agree with the poster above who said the father seemed very detached from the family in general. 

[Kitty Redstone]

6 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I did have a laugh about the mother talking about Macin's "addiction" to anime as if it were some sort of weird affliction. The kid liked anime - what's the big deal? 

Agreed.  It's no different from any other type of television escapism from a turbulent world (for me, it's soap operas and old Murder, She Wrote episodes).  The betrayal of having that perfectly innocent thing taken away from him - from his parents hiding the modem cords every night to taking away the devices - must have been something. 

4 hours ago, marina707 said:

I know what that pressure's like, and I felt horrible for him. As a "weird" kid with strange interests who doesn't care about typical teenage things with a "normal", popular sibling, it's hard (and it has to be significantly harder when you have five of those "normal" siblings). I don't think it was intentional on the part of my parents (they've always said they don't care what I do or don't do in life, as long as I'm happy), but that doesn't mean I didn't still feel the pressure to be like everyone else. I was never suicidal over it, but for someone with a history of depression, it's incredibly easy to see how feeling that way could lead to suicide.

Absolutely.  It's tough, I know.  :-(

[tobeannounced]

I'm not into religion shaming, but I will say that even if Macin's parents were accepting of him possibly being homosexual, last I knew in my brief flirtation with the LDS church a hundred years ago, Mormon teens were still taught in "Sunday school" that even masturbation was a sin. So even if the parents were accepting of Macin being gay, I feel pretty sure he was getting plenty of messages otherwise at church. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by tobeannounced

[Christina]

Being somewhat familiar with Kortne Stouffer's disappearance before the show had me wondering if they would downplay her behavior leading up to her disappearance, and they only did a little bit. If you didn't know anything about her, you would still walk away with the knowledge that she was drinking and using drugs those days. What you didn't hear was that she had allegedly stole $3000 of the drugs she was supposed to sell, and that was what lead to the fight in the bar with the dealer. They also made it sound like it was just marijuana, but it wasn't. The friend that slept over was knocked out from the drugs, but managed to get up for work the next morning, and noticed she was gone. Kortne's dad still suspects him, saying he would have had to hear something since he couldn't be out cold at 3:50 a.m. when the cops showed up and got no response and still be able get up to work at 7:00 a.m., but the cops cleared him with a lie-detector test.

Amanda Ballester, the girl who showed up at the end of the episode to give info to her dad, has been deemed by the cops to be completely unreliable, she kept changing her stories, and the public comments on articles about Kortne call her crazy. I think she was actually trying to help and thought they should search that lake for Kortne, so she made up a story to get it done. The general online comments seem to think she just wanted attention, especially from people in that area who knew her. It's apparently a pretty small place.

Unless there is something out there that I haven't read, and it has been a while, the cops saw her around 3:00 a.m. and she was gone by 7:00 a.m. Just disappeared into oblivion. She was intoxicated, so it's possible she went outside and someone snatched her, but it's more likely that since the crowd she hung around with knew her boyfriend was taken to jail, one of them or the angry drug dealer/dealer's associates, showed up and convinced her to willing go or dragged her out to a car. I hope that some information comes forward with this airing, but they didn't add anything so there isn't any "new" info. Maybe one of the accomplices will get caught for something else and give up her location as part of a plea deal. 

[Christina]

On 9/23/2016 at 11:16 AM, Josette said:

Kara Kopetsky,  who went missing in 2007, was the ex-girlfriend of Kylr Yust.  Now, Jessica Runions is missing and she was last seen with Kylr Yust.  He's been arrested for burning her car.

Kara's episode was called "Gone at 17" and originally aired on December 27, 2010.

On 4/5/2017 at 0:57 AM, badhaggis said:

The police have found two sets of human remains. They believe they will be identified as Kara and Jessica.

Jessica Runions identity has been confirmed. They are still waiting on the second identity to be confirmed as Kara. It's not letting me link the url into the text for some reason, so I hope it doesn't truncate it.

http://fox4kc.com/2017/04/05/one-of-two-sets-of-remains-found-in-cass-county-identified-as-jessica-runions/

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Christina said:

Being somewhat familiar with Kortne Stouffer's disappearance before the show had me wondering if they would downplay her behavior leading up to her disappearance, and they only did a little bit. If you didn't know anything about her, you would still walk away with the knowledge that she was drinking and using drugs those days. What you didn't hear was that she had allegedly stole $3000 of the drugs she was supposed to sell, and that was what lead to the fight in the bar with the dealer. They also made it sound like it was just marijuana, but it wasn't. The friend that slept over was knocked out from the drugs, but managed to get up for work the next morning, and noticed she was gone. Kortne's dad still suspects him, saying he would have had to hear something since he couldn't be out cold at 3:50 a.m. when the cops showed up and got no response and still be able get up to work at 7:00 a.m., but the cops cleared him with a lie-detector test.

Amanda Ballester, the girl who showed up at the end of the episode to give info to her dad, has been deemed by the cops to be completely unreliable, she kept changing her stories, and the public comments on articles about Kortne call her crazy. I think she was actually trying to help and thought they should search that lake for Kortne, so she made up a story to get it done. The general online comments seem to think she just wanted attention, especially from people in that area who knew her. It's apparently a pretty small place.

Unless there is something out there that I haven't read, and it has been a while, the cops saw her around 3:00 a.m. and she was gone by 7:00 a.m. Just disappeared into oblivion. She was intoxicated, so it's possible she went outside and someone snatched her, but it's more likely that since the crowd she hung around with knew her boyfriend was taken to jail, one of them or the angry drug dealer/dealer's associates, showed up and convinced her to willing go or dragged her out to a car. I hope that some information comes forward with this airing, but they didn't add anything so there isn't any "new" info. Maybe one of the accomplices will get caught for something else and give up her location as part of a plea deal. 

Thanks for the extra information. I really got the feeling that the drug dealer had something to do with it, especially in light of this new information. The friend may or may not have known or had any part in it. I think this girl probably got in over her head and was "disposed" of. 

There was a guy in my town a few years ago that got killed by dealers over pot. He was on the phone  when someone knocked on his door. She heard the scuffle and then the line went dead. The whole town looked for him for months and his body was finally found in the river. What's interesting about that case is that the police gave us very little to work with. They wanted our "help" but only said that they had no suspects, that he'd been on the phone, and that he had a clean record. (Everyone seemed to like him.) Once his body was discovered, we learned that they'd been way more on top of it than we knew. He'd apparently been talking to his girlfriend, had called one of the dealers by name while still on the phone with her after the knock, and someone in his apartment complex had seen a scuffle in a vehicle they were able to describe. The police had suspects from the very beginning (suspects that were caught trying to cross the Mexican border). It was at that point I realized that sometimes LE has more up their sleeve than thought. 

[Surrealist]

52 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

There was a guy in my town a few years ago that got killed by dealers over pot. He was on the phone  when someone knocked on his door. She heard the scuffle and then the line went dead.

I have to watch tonight's episode. I recorded it. 

However, I wanted to highlight this part because I think it's interesting that dealers would kill someone over pot. I understand the harder drugs can cause craziness, but pot seems almost too benign for anyone to get killed over. Unless you're saying the dealers weren't just dealing pot.

I've read about Kortne's case. I usually assume that a dealer is involved in the disappearance/murder in a case like hers.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Surrealist

[Christina]

In Korte's case, it was a large amount of drugs or the drug money missing. I bet the boyfriend came up with that $3000 as soon as he got out of jail. The main drug dealer was from another state, New Jersey, I think. The dealer she got in an argument with in the bar earlier was a middleman and the theory was that something was said during the argument about her giving up his name in exchange for getting her boyfriend out of jail on the probation violation.

That remains a rumor because the cops have never addressed it publically. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Christina

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Surrealist said:

I have to watch tonight's episode. I recorded it. 

However, I wanted to highlight this part because I think it's interesting that dealers would kill someone over pot. I understand the harder drugs can cause craziness, but pot seems almost too benign for anyone to get killed over. Unless you're saying the dealers weren't just dealing pot.

I've read about Kortne's case. I usually assume that a dealer is involved in the disappearance/murder in a case like hers.

I should have specified. It wasn't over the drug, per se, but over the large amount of money he supposedly owed them-like in Kortne's case. No matter how low on the totem pole a drug may be, people like that will always get antsy where money is concerned. My point was that Kortne's case is very much like the one I am familiar with.

[Surrealist]

16 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I should have specified. It wasn't over the drug, per se, but over the large amount of money he supposedly owed them-like in Kortne's case. No matter how low on the totem pole a drug may be, people like that will always get antsy where money is concerned. My point was that Kortne's case is very much like the one I am familiar with.

Ah, OK. That makes sense. I had a feeling that there was too much money at stake to kill someone over marijuana. I watched the episode and Cody still pings my radar. I don't know how he couldn't have known something happened. I know some folks are heavy sleepers, but Kortne was lying down right next to him.

[Guest]

I just started watching but did I hear that right? Kortne's boyfriend Bradley was on probation for "underage drinking?" And was going to have to serve his remaining four YEARS in jail for violating? What?! I live in PA and have never heard of anyone getting sentenced to years in prison for drinking while underage. 

@Christina thanks for all the good background info! 

It's a shame but Kortne is dead. Hopefully her body will turn up one day. I'm going to go out in a limb and blame the neighbor! 

[azshadowwalker]

4 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I just started watching but did I hear that right? Kortne's boyfriend Bradley was on probation for "underage drinking?" And was going to have to serve his remaining four YEARS in jail for violating? What?! I live in PA and have never heard of anyone getting sentenced to years in prison for drinking while underage. 

That was just Kortne freaking out, thinking he would spend the rest of his probation time locked up. It didn't actually happen, and wasn't going to. So, you're right, it's not something real. 

I had a very difficult time paying attention to this one, despite watching it twice. Perhaps I just felt Kortne was one of those annoying girls who decide to go slumming, and just end up annoying the fuck out of everyone. The whole probation freak out didn't help in that regard. Her parents' pretentious naming of their kid didn't help me, either. "Kortne"?

Edited April 11, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[Guest]

I didn't think it was a very compelling episode either. There really was no "mystery." Kortne fell into the wrong group of friends, did bad shit, and with near 100% certainty, was killed by one of them. And, as someone who used to live next door to a drug dealer whose stereo was permanently set to 11 and that had people in and out of their house constantly, I had very little sympathy I'd otherwise have to give. 

[TheVoicesToldMeTo]

Regarding Macin:  The mother kept making a big deal out of the anime he was watching.  There is quite a wide range of anime material - my favorite show as a kid was anime Starblazers which was G/PG rating.  There is certainly a TON of anime porn, which they could have been upset about, especially I it was gay porn.  I don't recall any of Macin's friends being interviewed, so maybe he didn't have any? 

The earlier seasons of Disappeared had a pretty good mix of bizarre cases (Maura Murray), people who had met with foul play, mentally ill, fled before they could be arrested for some crime, etc.  Seems like the last couple of seasons are heavily focused on mentally ill (I'll count addicts in here) people who wandered off in a manic state or intentionally left to commit suicide in private.  Not saying these cases should be taken less seriously, but there isn't much of a mystery here and the show tends to bury the lede until more than halfway through the program

[Soobs]

On 4/11/2017 at 5:30 AM, Giant Misfit said:

I didn't think it was a very compelling episode either. There really was no "mystery." Kortne fell into the wrong group of friends, did bad shit, and with near 100% certainty, was killed by one of them. And, as someone who used to live next door to a drug dealer whose stereo was permanently set to 11 and that had people in and out of their house constantly, I had very little sympathy I'd otherwise have to give. 

This was a lot of people I went to high school with and I actually did know someone who robbed a drug dealer and was murdered. I agree that she sounded like the inconsiderate neighbor no one wants to have. I will give points to the cops for showing up all those times. I live in Los Angeles and unless you say there's a gun involved or shots fired, they rarely come for noise complaints. 

I think the friend who spent the night and the boyfriend know more than they're saying. They're protecting themselves, which I can't blame them for. Hopefully this motivated them to pursue healthier situations. I felt bad for her family. No one should have to go through that. It seems like one of those situations where all the town low lifes know exactly what happened but the cops probably never will.

[azshadowwalker]

1 hour ago, Soobs said:

This was a lot of people I went to high school with and I actually did know someone who robbed a drug dealer and was murdered. I agree that she sounded like the inconsiderate neighbor no one wants to have. I will give points to the cops for showing up all those times. I live in Los Angeles and unless you say there's a gun involved or shots fired, they rarely come for noise complaints. 

I think the friend who spent the night and the boyfriend know more than they're saying. They're protecting themselves, which I can't blame them for. Hopefully this motivated them to pursue healthier situations. I felt bad for her family. No one should have to go through that. It seems like one of those situations where all the town low lifes know exactly what happened but the cops probably never will.

I had a friend here in Tucson who was murdered almost 17 years ago. She was the go-between between two sets of dealers. One set decided to rob the other, and they used her to set him up without telling her. After she set the meeting up, they tied her up and threw her in a closet, then robbed and beat the other guy. She was terrified, and was trying to get the fuck outta Dodge. The day before she was to leave to stay with her family, she was murdered. Her sons, ages 14 and 5, found her. I knew who was expected at her house that night, because she called me in the afternoon. She was expecting the two thieves, hoping to smooth things over. So, I am certain they killed her to keep her from telling the victim where to find them. But you're damned right that I didn't call the cops. Her family knew that she was afraid and they knew who her connections were. I had left that life almost a decade before, so I wasn't risking my family's safety if her own kin wouldn't tell. So, yeah, people tend to know what happened in these cases, but have good reasons not to say. 

[roamyn]

An arrest has been made in the Tara Grimstead case in GA.  Two former students have been charged - one with abduction & murder, the other with aiding, abetting & hindering investigation.

Oddle enough, the alleged murderer's last name is Duke, and the other is named Bo Dukes (no info if Luke was involved - LOL).

[azshadowwalker]

38 minutes ago, roamyn said:

An arrest has been made in the Tara Grimstead case in GA.  Two former students have been charged - one with abduction & murder, the other with aiding, abetting & hindering investigation.

Oddle enough, the alleged murderer's last name is Duke, and the other is named Bo Dukes (no info if Luke was involved - LOL).

Wasn't there a kid who was kind of obsessed with her? I will have to read up on it again. 

[North of Eden]

About the SILENT SON episode....I blame the power tripping parents if he's lying out there dead in the desert somewhere (which seems likely since in the premier they couldn't even find the missing mother on their own ranch for two years!). Damn..the kid just wanted to watch some anime...and he earned it!

Growing up almost all of my friends parents were Power Trippers like these parents were. I pretty much had a low opinion of my friends parents because they seemed to get off being able to say "your grounded" and similar BS. Conversly I knew I was not well liked by them because I enjoyed a fair amount of freedom and hey to this day I rarely drink, don't smoke and have never done drugs so I guess I didn't turn out so bad for being a kid who was "running the roads" as those power tripper parents use to say about me.

Anyway...they should have just let him watch his stuff.

[azshadowwalker]

I just don't know what to think about Elizabeth. She doesn't sound like the type who would take off. It doesn't sound like she had enemies. I don't for one minute believe her uncles did anything to her. I am incredibly irritated that the cops released the results of the polygraphs, likely hurting community involvement in finding her. Most of all, I just hate that her parents and siblings are kept from helping due to immigration. Add to that, if anyone from work knows what happened but have their own immigration concerns, there's no way they are going to call. It was bad enough under the Obama administration; the fears of deportation are even worse now. So unfair. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[walnutqueen]

31 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

I just don't know what to think about Elizabeth. She doesn't sound like the type who would take off. It doesn't sound like she had enemies. I don't for one minute believe her uncles did anything to her. I am incredibly irritated that the cops released the results of the polygraphs, likely hurting community involvement in finding her. Most of all, I just hate that her parents and siblings are kept from helping due to immigration. Add to that, if anyone from work knows what happened but have their own immigration concerns, there's no way they are going to call. It was bad enough under the Obama administration; the fears of deportation are even worse now. So unfair. 

My intellect tends to agree with you (as usual!!!), but there was something about the one uncle that pinged my creepometer.  I'll admit I wasn't paying close attention to much during this episode, so it was just a fleeting impression ...

[azshadowwalker]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

My intellect tends to agree with you (as usual!!!), but there was something about the one uncle that pinged my creepometer.  I'll admit I wasn't paying close attention to much during this episode, so it was just a fleeting impression ...

He was a little over-the-top, but I think that's a function of trying to communicate in a second language. All the family members were, even the ones who were in Mexico or California at the time, and couldn't possibly be involved.

What could possibly be a motive for him? She had a legitimate visa that allowed her to go to school and work, so it wasn't about hiding from ICE or an imminent threat of having to leave. And I don't see him going off on her for no reason. Even if he, for whatever bizarre reason, did so, letting the public know the results of the polygraph does absolutely nothing to solve the case. It obviously didn't lead to an arrest, but it did stop the public from caring. 

To be honest, I found the cop in charge of the case kind of cold. Kind of like the entire U.S. government when it came to letting these people find their daughter. By the time the visas came through, people's memories would have faded. I can only imagine what Americans would say if it was a missing American girl, and another country kept her parents from searching for an extended period of time. 

The other thing that bugged me is the church converting Mexican people. As a former Mormon, it has always bothered me to have missionaries trying to destroy other cultures through proselytizing and conversion. It's especially bad in Latin America and Africa given the fact that the church had to be threatened with loss of tax exempt status to get it to stop forbidding Latino and Black men from holding the priesthood. (Of course, the government is fine with all churches doing the same to women.) 

Ugh. Just hated everything about this case. 

[Josette]

But this family wasn't forced to convert and they are educated people capable of making their own choices. 

I think it's possible Elizabeth made it back to the complex, but not her apartment.  Someone living at the complex may have intercepted her and pulled or lured her into his apartment.  Maybe it's just that so often when someone is murdered at an apartment complex it's because their neighbor did it.  I've developed a touch of paranoia regarding apartments thanks to true crime shows.  It just that the show makes it seem like there wasn't much opportunity for Elizabeth to be snatched without a witness if it happened during her walk.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

By the time the visas came through, people's memories would have faded. I can only imagine what Americans would say if it was a missing American girl, and another country kept her parents from searching for an extended period of time. 

Yeah, I couldn't understand why they wouldn't let her sisters in the country. What kind of fuckery is that?! 

Super petty buuuuuuuuttttt: Elizabeth's mom and her sisters need to make their fuchsia lipstick dependencies disappear STAT. Or at least use some industrial-strength lip liner. 

I think Elizabeth was abducted for trafficking. Yeah, she was "old" in age but she definitely looked like a much younger girl. Whatever happened to her, it's a tragedy. Poor girl.

And Elizabeth Smart couldn't be a lovelier human being. 

[mamadrama]

So hard to figure this one out. 

I am not sure I agree with the human trafficking angle. They prefer younger women not just because they look younger, but because they are easier to control. In addition, white women with Caucasian features (light colored hair, blue or green eyes, light skin, etc.) tend to fetch more money and are therefore in higher demand. With that being said, Elizabeth was a strikingly beautiful girl so who knows. It's possible. 

I personally feel like one of two things is going on here: she had a stalker that nobody knows about or it was one of her uncles. 

I am with the rest of you on the uncles. They SEEMED okay. They seemed to be expressing legitimate grief. Neither of them did a single thing that raised my antennas. I am only putting them on the radar because MOST crimes are not as complicated as they first appear and the uncles had the most access to her, as well as her trust. As for why? Who knows. Perhaps she witnessed something she shouldn't have (they were into drugs or other illegal activities and, because of her piousness, she was going to tell on them) or there was something of a sexual nature going on. 

As for a stalker, I could see someone at the restaurant or apartment complex having a "thing" for her and her never noticing. 

Now, for my "outlandish" theory...She wasn't really into being a LDS member and wasn't nearly as pious and studious as people thought. She used the student visa as a way to get herself into the country and then, after a few weeks/months of laying low, took off for other parts. Could be a cult, guy she met online, etc. I guess my point is that she could have had a whole other life that nobody knew anything about. 

[Kitty Redstone]

I agree that it was really shitty of the cops to release the lie detector test results.  Those things are not accurate!  Now there's an unearned and unnecessary cloud of suspicion on her two uncles and the search for Elizabeth has been permanently harmed.  I feel so badly for all of them.

Elizabeth was good about telling her family about men who made her uncomfortable (the guy at school, the guy at the restaurant).  If she had a stalker it had to be someone who didn't make direct contact with her or was somehow able to fool her creep-antennae. 

I don't think there's any way this young woman willingly disappeared.  Hopefully the police have investigated whether or not there's a connection between Elizabeth's disappearance and the woman found in suitcase in a neighboring county. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Now, for my "outlandish" theory...She wasn't really into being a LDS member and wasn't nearly as pious and studious as people thought. She used the student visa as a way to get herself into the country and then, after a few weeks/months of laying low, took off for other parts. Could be a cult, guy she met online, etc. I guess my point is that she could have had a whole other life that nobody knew anything about. 

I like that theory! I just wonder, in this day and age, how that would be accomplished without her leaving a digital record of those communications? They had access to her phone records -- but I suspect that was only text messaging/calls? Are apps like Snapchat and Tinder open to warrants? 

Speaking of her phone, couldn't they tell from where her phone last pinged? They seemed to gloss over that in the show (which isn't surprising as this show frequently glosses over a lot of facts) but they should have been able to determine the last location where the phone signal pinged the nearest tower. 

[tobeannounced]

I wondered about the uncle, who was supposed to take her to Walmart the day she disappeared, only because I watch too many of these shows, lol. He said he went to Walmart to look for her. I wonder if they ever checked the CCTV at Walmart to confirm that.