S13.E23: Let the Good Times Roll

[FlickChick]

Hey, we could always have Michael "hiding" in Dean while he peruses this world for half a season, only "coming out and taking control" when he's not with Sam. That way we get the best of both worlds - Dean with Sam (memory wiped) and Dean!Michael while he plots and decides what he wants to do over here - perhaps make a friend of Jack so he might be able to use Jack's power (when Jack gets it back) for his purposes. Nah, too creative for this group of writers. :(

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Hey, we could always have Michael "hiding" in Dean while he peruses this world for half a season, only "coming out and taking control" when he's not with Sam. That way we get the best of both worlds - Dean with Sam (memory wiped) and Dean!Michael while he plots and decides what he wants to do over here - perhaps make a friend of Jack so he might be able to use Jack's power (when Jack gets it back) for his purposes. Nah, too creative for this group of writers. :(

I'd watch this. 

[bozodegama]

On 6/1/2018 at 6:09 PM, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not sure I want Dean to not be Dean for any longer than that.  If he's still Michael, then I don't see how he'll be interacting with the rest of the cast, and I don't see how that will work for a long-term situation.  I don't want less Jensen in the show, so it will be interesting to see how they make this work.  I'm not looking for a repeat of the aborted Demon Dean story, but this is entirely different, IMO.

Yeah, I agree.  A few episodes of Michael, than back to Dean.  The show needs badass Dean back.  Although I am cool with having Bobby, Charlie, Ketch, Rowena and Mary (I guess) fighting with Sam, Jack and Cass.  Bring back Crowley too.  And Gabriel again.

[Res]

2 hours ago, bozodegama said:

Yeah, I agree.  A few episodes of Michael, than back to Dean.  The show needs badass Dean back.  Although I am cool with having Bobby, Charlie, Ketch, Rowena and Mary (I guess) fighting with Sam, Jack and Cass.  Bring back Crowley too.  And Gabriel again.

While I get what you are saying and I'm definitely a BA Dean fan, just be cause Dean is back doesn't mean he will be anything close to BA with the current writers and showrunner. In fact, BA Dean has been missing more in the previous 4 years, IMHO, despite Dean, the character's presence on screen. I see no reason for TPTB to change that either. Plus, with so many other characters, including characters that TPTB are MUCH MORE INTERESTED in *cough*Mary*cough* and the ridiculous amount of "fan faves" (not mine, though) brought back, it would be IMO naive to believe that there would be a lot of room or need for BA Dean. In fact, I could honestly see Dean being benched for PTSD, "smiting sickness", already "compromised, ie tainted" reasons, rather than actually have him be the BA he used to be allowed to be. 

Therefore, I'm very cool and would rather see Dean being BA within Micheal, ie. playing mind games, etc., for as long as it lasts. 

[BlueSapphire]

Michael and Dean can have each other.  Where are some new characters Sam and Cas can bond with?

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

Michael and Dean can have each other.  Where are some new characters Sam and Cas can bond with?

AU Charlie and AU Bobby and all the other people that came over from the AU since they clearly have no intention of going back despite AU Bobby's assertions they'll go back and save everyone else.  It's hilariously eyerolly  to me that he's all...."I'm staying here and gonna make googly eyes at Mary'  STFU AU Bobby. LOL

[ahrtee]

18 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

Michael and Dean can have each other.  Where are some new characters Sam and Cas can bond with?

How about Jack?  Mary?  Lucifer? (especially if you consider "possessed" as "bonding.")   

Edited June 4, 2018 by ahrtee

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, BlueSapphire said:

Michael and Dean can have each other.  Where are some new characters Sam and Cas can bond with?

Maybe they'll hit a dog on their way home from the church.

[SueB]

On 6/2/2018 at 6:23 PM, FlickChick said:

Hey, we could always have Michael "hiding" in Dean while he peruses this world for half a season, only "coming out and taking control" when he's not with Sam. That way we get the best of both worlds - Dean with Sam (memory wiped) and Dean!Michael while he plots and decides what he wants to do over here - perhaps make a friend of Jack so he might be able to use Jack's power (when Jack gets it back) for his purposes. Nah, too creative for this group of writers. :(

AUMichael outted himself as wanting to do things differently the second time, but he also was clearly dismissive of Dean's "old life" as he said "thanks for the suit" and took off.  Even with a memory wipe, as powerful as he is, I see no advantage to Michael to be nice to Sam (or Dean).  Doesn't fit the profile.  And Jack mangled his meatsuit.  So, they aren't going to get along.  Sam & Jack would have to have something Michael needed.  Right now, I see no leverage.  And a mind-wipe is a "reset button".  I'd rather not have that used on the show if it's at all avoidable.

I think the writers are plenty creative but I hardly see a "win" for Dean while AUMichael is wearing him.  In addition to it be inconsistent with both AUMichael and Dean's characters, a 'happy and all-powerful Dean' doesn't really feel like 'drama' IMO.  Where's the conflict? It's the same issue with Cas or Jack being too powerful. 

Far more dramatic juice IMO to be squeezed out of Dean as a hostage of Michael's in his own meatsuit. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by SueB

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, BlueSapphire said:

Michael and Dean can have each other.  Where are some new characters Sam and Cas can bond with?

Sure because it’s not like Dean needs friends.

[trxr4kids]

23 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Sure because it’s not like Dean needs friends.

Don't be ridiculous, as long as he has Sam he doesn't even need air, water or food. 

From the wiki 8.23 transcript :

Quote

DEAN

Hold on, hold on! You seriously think that? Because none of it -- none of it -- is true. Listen, man, I know we've had our disagreements, okay? Hell, I know I've said some junk that set you back on your heels. But, Sammy...come on. I killed Benny to save you. I'm willing to let this bastard and all the sons of bitches that killed mom walk because of you. Don't you dare think that there is anything, past or present, that I would put in front of you! It has never been like that, ever! I need you to see that. I'm begging you.

<eye roll>

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

Don't be ridiculous, as long as he has Sam he doesn't even need air, water or food. 

From the wiki 8.23 transcript :

<eye roll>

Blech. One of my least favorite scenes! 

Edited June 5, 2018 by DeeDee79

[Res]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe they'll hit a dog on their way home from the church.

I would actually love that! It'd be hilarious!

[Myrelle]

I think that as soon as Michael/Dean realizes that Heaven is in such disarray, he will see that as his opening or "in" with Castiel. Castiel wanted Gabriel to save Heaven and he(and they) were ready to welcome Gabriel back with open arms as their savior. I can't see them refusing Michael like they refused Lucifer. Michael was one of them before he was put in the cage. This Michael, with all the knowledge that Dean possesses at his disposal, could be a very silver-tongued villain.

And he'll know all about Cas and Sam and Jack, too. All the little nuances about them and their relationships with Dean, for sure and at least; and he would undoubtedly use Dean's memories of all of them and his readings of them and their natures, too-because that's something that Dean was often very good at-reading and knowing his loved ones intimately and knowing what they might think about certain things and how they might react to certain things and thoughts and actions.

He could and should play the big picture card with them as a reason to stay in Dean. And he will likely even show them that Dean is "happy" via that totally predictable scene that he shared with Sam in the beginning of the finale(and this, even if Dean isn't happy or if Dean is unaware and blissfully ignorant at first while eventually growing restless and unhappy and suspicious-because we all know that he would eventually become suspicious, if Michael forgets about him or neglects to let him hunt)-and I'd guess that they will all be okay with Dean staying in that "happy" fake reality(for his own good), the same as they all were when no one told him about Sam returning from Hell in S6. 

And in this way, Michael/Dean could last as long as Soulless Sam did in S6.

I personally would love to see Michael/Dean trying to be enough of OurDean to keep his loved ones fooled into thinking that Dean staying possessed by the archangel is "for the best"-for everyone.

Jensen would rock that kind of a role so hard and like nobody's business, IMO.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Myrelle

[SueB]

I'm been thinking about the AU Survivors plight.  I think what we saw in the finale was a S14 setup, mostly for Mary's sake, but I think there's some potential for other stories.

First, I think the bulk of the AU people intended to go back.  If Gabriel had survived he could have gotten them back with enough rest time.  And the rest time would have allowed them to regroup.  I think that's what they all thought going back was the plan and the boys thought they could deliver on that plan. When Bobby made his speech at the end of 13.22, I don't think he understood the impact of Gabriel's loss.

But I'm also legitimately conflicted - Jack opened up a rift with a Spirit Walker?  So, in theory they COULD go back.  Kaia couldn't have been the only spirit walker.  Plus Jack is stronger.  

So it puts me back in the "Watsonian vs Doylist"** mindset:

Watsonian:
- The survivors may not all realize that Jack has this ability.  And those that do are either not thinking about it or are not saying.
- There's a helluva lot of difference when you are in the thick of the fight and when you've had a chance to decompress. These people were not raised as soldiers.  In fact they are potentially a bunch of "twitchy trauma survivors".  Intending to go back when you are mid-battle is natural.  Realizing you have an excuse to not subject yourself to that hell again -- well, I have a hard time blaming them from cherishing clean beds, hot showers, regular meals and not having to face death everyday.  Actual soldiers often think they are going back for another tour and then get home and realize that becoming "that person" again is really hard to do.  
- In sum, unless they left a close loved one (a child, a spouse, etc...), taking relief in not having to go back seems pretty normal to me.

Doylist:
- Putting Mary w/ Bobby solves a HUGE long-term issue.  By de-fridging Mary they created a "must interact" character. If they sell a story where she choses to stay w/ Bobby, it puts less pressure on the boys -- because they know their version of Bobby was pretty damn useful in protecting others.  And based on what they saw, the AUBobby is just as capable.  Mary is too young for Bobby, but so was Jody Mills and possibly Ellen.  But this is Hollywood -- older men get younger women all the time.
- Having a bunch of AU trauma surivivors has "case of the week" potential.  An AU survivor goes to see his/her spouse who died in the AU.  Instant drama.  And what are the cosmic consequences?  Billie may have issues.  

Bottom line: There are many good reasons to conveniently forget Jack could get them back.  I think that's the route they'll stick with.  

 

**looking at the actions as if I'm a character in the show and then looking at the actions as if I'm the author (for those unfamiliar ... Sherlock Holme's has Dr. Watson chronicalling their exploits while Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote the work).

[catrox14]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

I'm been thinking about the AU Survivors plight.  I think what we saw in the finale was a S14 setup, mostly for Mary's sake, but I think there's some potential for other stories.

First, I think the bulk of the AU people intended to go back.  If Gabriel had survived he could have gotten them back with enough rest time.  And the rest time would have allowed them to regroup.  I think that's what they all thought going back was the plan and the boys thought they could deliver on that plan. When Bobby made his speech at the end of 13.22, I don't think he understood the impact of Gabriel's loss.

But I'm also legitimately conflicted - Jack opened up a rift with a Spirit Walker?  So, in theory they COULD go back.  Kaia couldn't have been the only spirit walker.  Plus Jack is stronger.  

So it puts me back in the "Watsonian vs Doylist"** mindset:

Watsonian:
- The survivors may not all realize that Jack has this ability.  And those that do are either not thinking about it or are not saying.
- There's a helluva lot of difference when you are in the thick of the fight and when you've had a chance to decompress. These people were not raised as soldiers.  In fact they are potentially a bunch of "twitchy trauma survivors".  Intending to go back when you are mid-battle is natural.  Realizing you have an excuse to not subject yourself to that hell again -- well, I have a hard time blaming them from cherishing clean beds, hot showers, regular meals and not having to face death everyday.  Actual soldiers often think they are going back for another tour and then get home and realize that becoming "that person" again is really hard to do.  
- In sum, unless they left a close loved one (a child, a spouse, etc...), taking relief in not having to go back seems pretty normal to me.

Doylist:
- Putting Mary w/ Bobby solves a HUGE long-term issue.  By de-fridging Mary they created a "must interact" character. If they sell a story where she choses to stay w/ Bobby, it puts less pressure on the boys -- because they know their version of Bobby was pretty damn useful in protecting others.  And based on what they saw, the AUBobby is just as capable.  Mary is too young for Bobby, but so was Jody Mills and possibly Ellen.  But this is Hollywood -- older men get younger women all the time.
- Having a bunch of AU trauma surivivors has "case of the week" potential.  An AU survivor goes to see his/her spouse who died in the AU.  Instant drama.  And what are the cosmic consequences?  Billie may have issues.  

Bottom line: There are many good reasons to conveniently forget Jack could get them back.  I think that's the route they'll stick with.  

 

**looking at the actions as if I'm a character in the show and then looking at the actions as if I'm the author (for those unfamiliar ... Sherlock Holme's has Dr. Watson chronicalling their exploits while Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote the work).

Except that the show did not bother to explain either from a Watsonian or Doylist perspective or just plain old sensible storytelling and not plot contrivance after plot contrivance writing.

They never really explained, other than the stupid walk in the lush rainforest of Lebanon, Kansas and Not!Bobby's almost coquettish behavior with Mary that implied he's a smitten kitten, as to why the great soldier we met in 12.23, has lost the taste for the fight. It's especially grating since the entire point of Mary shaming  telling Dean about not wanting to return, and how dare he think they shouldn't fight for them, and how much Mary's ego needed to believe was needed by them.

And why Sam came up up with the  plan to go back and save them which lead to the scene with Not!Bobby pontificating to rallying his troops about going back and saving that world -- the speech wherein he welcomed Sam and Dean to HIS AU family in Sam and Dean's home, as if he owned the fucking place whilst Cas doesn't even get a name drop? Why yes, that did irritate the crap out of me. I mean Cas is the reason that Jack was alive to join the fight in the first place. Jack, the archangel nephilim who could smite angels with a flick of his wrist and wanted to kill AUMichael and if he had, then AUMichael doesn't come over and Dean doesn't say yes. Had Castiel killed Kelly and Jack as was being touted in s12, before Jack influenced him, Castiel wouldn't have been THE FIRST PERSON through rift, and  no one else would have known it existed.  But now Not!Bobby is all, 'Meh. I get to walk in the rain with my crush,  fuck the rest of the them' and fuck this Cas guy.

(Honestly, there is so much plot contrivance just to bring back Not!Bobby and Not!Charlie and making Gabriel too important is exactly why I voted those three for most Fanservice moments this season).

Edited June 5, 2018 by catrox14

[SueB]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Except that the show did not bother to explain either from a Watsonian or Doylist perspective or just plain old sensible storytelling and not plot contrivance after plot contrivance writing.

They never really explained, other than the stupid walk in the lush rainforest of Lebanon, Kansas and Not!Bobby's almost coquettish behavior with Mary that implied he's a smitten kitten, as to why the great soldier we met in 12.23, has lost the taste for the fight. It's especially grating since the entire point of Mary shaming  telling Dean about not wanting to return, and how dare he think they shouldn't fight for them, and how much Mary's ego needed to believe was needed by them.

And why Sam came up up with the  plan to go back and save them which lead to the scene with Not!Bobby pontificating to rallying his troops about going back and saving that world -- the speech wherein he welcomed Sam and Dean to HIS AU family in Sam and Dean's home, as if he owned the fucking place whilst Cas doesn't even get a name drop? Why yes, that did irritate the crap out of me. I mean Cas is the reason that Jack was alive to join the fight in the first place. Jack, the archangel nephilim who could smite angels with a flick of his wrist and wanted to kill AUMichael and if he had, then AUMichael doesn't come over and Dean doesn't say yes. Had Castiel killed Kelly and Jack as was being touted in s12, before Jack influenced him, Castiel wouldn't have been THE FIRST PERSON through rift, and  no one else would have known it existed.  But now Not!Bobby is all, 'Meh. I get to walk in the rain with my crush,  fuck the rest of the them' and fuck this Cas guy.

(Honestly, there is so much plot contrivance just to bring back Not!Bobby and Not!Charlie and making Gabriel too important is exactly why I voted those three for most Fanservice moments this season).

 

The Watsonian perspective, i.e. the "in show" perspective, was that they had no means of getting back:
 

Quote

BOBBY

Ginger trouble --the worst kind.

Anyways...without an archangel, it's not like we can go back home. And I'm not sure I'd want to.

I...I like it here.

(Bobby looks down as if embarrassed and notices something on the path)

Is that...

MARY

Blood.

(They follow the blood further until they get to a large blood streaked rock. On the other side of the rock a young girl is laying on the ground, blood along one side of her head)

MARY

Maggie.

So, they explained why they couldn't go back, and they had Bobby confess he likes it here. But they interrupt the conversation to inject Maggie's death story. So from a "Watsonian" perspective, we have the start of the explanation for Bobby's attitude change but it doesn't get completed. We wouldn't get an in-show "Doylist" answer -- that's antithetical. 

To me, everything about that scene was S14 set-up IMO.  That seems to be an objective of the finale for the show most years (set up the next season). Maybe they want to set up a "survivor's guilt" storyline in S14.  Or a PTSD story for someone else.  So Bobby showing relief at being here and hesistancy at going back is a starter dough that could go in many directions.  They may just wanted to throw it out there to suggest a Bobby/Mary thing, or 'the AU crowd is staying', or .... etc.  In short, I think they left us hanging on purpose.  

And now, with AUMichael in OUR universe, Sam, Dean & Jack may want AU soldier help in taking out or controlling AUMichael.  The threat has dropped dramatically in the AU and amped up in our universe.  Of course theirs still Angels in the AU, but they're leaderless.  If the AUAngels fall into in-fighting. like happened in our universe, they'll be busy killing each other and the humans will be better off than when AUMichael was there.  

We know for sure AUMichael in our universe will be addressed -- he's run off with the co-lead's meatsuit.  But how much of the AU plight is addressed is unknown.  They've got enough to either handwave it away or explore it IMO.

Edited June 5, 2018 by SueB

[catrox14]

52 minutes ago, SueB said:

The Watsonian perspective, i.e. the "in show" perspective, was that they had no means of getting back:

But they do have means. The one huge glaring plot hole with OG Michael sitting right there in the Cage. It's not been said he doesn't have his grace. Just that he's crazy pants. They all know he's there. So that doesn't meet Watsonian. 

It can't be Doylist either because the author knows OGMichael is there too.

So they do have  an answer and it's being ignored thus far for plot cintrivance.

[auntvi]

8 hours ago, SueB said:

But I'm also legitimately conflicted - Jack opened up a rift with a Spirit Walker?  So, in theory they COULD go back.  Kaia couldn't have been the only spirit walker.  Plus Jack is stronger.  

Kaia could magically recover & return to this universe. I enjoyed the little bit of Kaia + Jack that we got.

[gonzosgirrl]

Didn't Bobby or any of the AU people ever ask how Jack, or Mary for that matter got there in the first place? There were no Archangels involved so why would they assume it was the only way?

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Didn't Bobby or any of the AU people ever ask how Jack, or Mary for that matter got there in the first place? There were no Archangels involved so why would they assume it was the only way?

That's a good question.  I don't recollect it being discussed between Not!Bobby and Cas.

Another question.  Shouldn't Not!Bobby have wanted to kill Castiel on sight? Or was Evil!Castiel not known to the rebels?

[DeeDee79]

29 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Another question.  Shouldn't Not!Bobby have wanted to kill Castiel on sight? Or was Evil!Castiel not known to the rebels?

Questions that could have been answered if they had bothered to flesh out the AU more than just a glimpse here and there before the overload in the last few episodes. 

[FierceCritter]

On 6/4/2018 at 2:18 PM, catrox14 said:

"I'm staying here and gonna make googly eyes at Mary'  STFU AU Bobby. LOL

I know I'm really behind (reasons) and I seldom post. But I had to let you know that I snorted - at work - when I read this. Thank you.

[FierceCritter]

On 6/4/2018 at 3:46 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

  ON 6/4/2018 AT 2:10 PM, BLUESAPPHIRE SAID:

Michael and Dean can have each other.  Where are some new characters Sam and Cas can bond with?

[GONZOSGIRRL] Maybe they'll hit a dog on their way home from the church.

Again, mostly lurker, late to the game, but this also made me snort, at work.

I have to stop catching up on these forums while between tasks.

[catrox14]

I was rewatching this ep and I just have to rave about Jensen's performance at the end

Two moments that really stood out for me: 

1) When Dean realizes the answer to the problem is offering himself to Michael.  The dawning awful realization that he could and should be AU Michael's vessel. Dean was visibly shaken at his own realization and truly frightened of what he was contemplating. The moment that really got to me was when Cas tried to appeal to him to not do it and Dean's back was to Cas facing the camera. That moment of Dean closing his eyes to steel himself and to shut out Cas' words was seriously sublime. And the voice work of Jensen there was heartbreaking. His voice broke we had shouted, "I don't have a choice!" That was just sublime.

Dean felt he was out of options and he had 2 people he cares about now kidnapped by Lucifer and the rest of the world at risk because now Lucifer was more powerful than Jack and given Chuck and Amara have disappeared, likely the entire universe other than AU Michael.  He HAD to do it.  And he IMO hated it.  But knew there were no other options in front of him at that moment. 

2) The moment he shifted into Michael there was no Dean at all. He was gone.  Nothing in his face was Dean anymore. Nothing in his eyes. His mouth, his stature. Just utterly brilliant. And IMO is not getting the attention it deserves.

What a performance from Jensen!

[FlickChick]

@catrox14, I'll be looking for all of this on my re-watch prior to the new season. Jensen is a fabulous actor and he definitely enhances the material he's given. Wouldn't it be nice if he was given better material by better writers?

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Jensen is a fabulous actor and he definitely enhances the material he's given. Wouldn't it be nice if he was given better material by better writers?

1000x yes to all of this.

[Myrelle]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I was rewatching this ep and I just have to rave about Jensen's performance at the end

Two moments that really stood out for me: 

1) When Dean realizes the answer to the problem is offering himself to Michael.  The dawning awful realization that he could and should be AU Michael's vessel. Dean was visibly shaken at his own realization and truly frightened of what he was contemplating. The moment that really got to me was when Cas tried to appeal to him to not do it and Dean's back was to Cas facing the camera. That moment of Dean closing his eyes to steel himself and to shut out Cas' words was seriously sublime. And the voice work of Jensen there was heartbreaking. His voice broke we had shouted, "I don't have a choice!" That was just sublime.

Dean felt he was out of options and he had 2 people he cares about now kidnapped by Lucifer and the rest of the world at risk because now Lucifer was more powerful than Jack and given Chuck and Amara have disappeared, likely the entire universe other than AU Michael.  He HAD to do it.  And he IMO hated it.  But knew there were no other options in front of him at that moment. 

2) The moment he shifted into Michael there was no Dean at all. He was gone.  Nothing in his face was Dean anymore. Nothing in his eyes. His mouth, his stature. Just utterly brilliant. And IMO is not getting the attention it deserves.

What a performance from Jensen!

 

7 hours ago, FlickChick said:

@catrox14, I'll be looking for all of this on my re-watch prior to the new season. Jensen is a fabulous actor and he definitely enhances the material he's given. Wouldn't it be nice if he was given better material by better writers?

I will watch again also as the new season draws closer.

The fight scene might have been a bust, but what happened before that was Gold, IMO also. And the actual kill scene and it's aftermath, too.

What a shame that these bozos didn't get the fight scene right. Shame on them.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

The fight scene was extremely cheesy

Made it to the end of season 13! I think I can finish 14 in time for the last season to begin and I can watch it live for the first time.

Was I supposed to be laughing at that fight between Lucifer and Dean!Michael? Because that was hilariously bad. Sam sitting around saying 'Jack!' or 'Dean!' was pretty bad too.

Overall not a terrible season, for me there have been far worse but still not great either. I do like Jack and I did like Rowena's arc this season. I think I miss Crowley.

I cannot stand Lucifer and I wish I could remotely believe he won't be back but yeah I am not going to bother entertaining that idea. So tired of his whining.

Anyway, on to season 14 and Dean being Michael ... for however long that lasts. Maybe longer than demon!Dean?!?

[theatremouse]

On 9/7/2019 at 9:28 PM, hypnotoad said:

Was I supposed to be laughing at that fight between Lucifer and Dean!Michael? Because that was hilariously bad. Sam sitting around saying 'Jack!' or 'Dean!' was pretty bad too.

For my money pretty much every fight scene has WAAAAAY too much repetition of whoever is fighting simply calling out the others' names. If it were a drinking game, I'd have no liver left.

[supernajunkie]

Who is the first werewolf that is killed in season 13 episode 23? Killed by Castiel while trying to smoke a cigarette??

[The Companion]

On 5/17/2018 at 1:02 PM, ZennyKenny said:

Welp, it's that time of year again. Time to sing to my dog:

 

CARRY ON MY WAYWARD PUP

THERE'LL BE TREATS WHEN YOU ARE DONE

LAY YOUR FLOPPY EARS TO REST

DON'T YOU WHINE NO MORE

I am happy to know I am not the only one who sings to my pets. 😆

On 5/17/2018 at 8:00 PM, Lady Calypso said:

The first half was boring and weak as hell. The second half was a lot better once they got rid of the pointless characters and focused straight on the mains and Michael. So I'm just focusing on the second half of the finale.

 

The pacing was all sorts of wrong here. I might have found the AU refugees interesting had they not stuffed it into this episode and hurried the conclusion.

On 5/17/2018 at 10:11 PM, FlickChick said:

I haven't finished reading all the comments, but I have to ask - why do so many believe that Lucifer is really, most sincerely dead? I mean, praise Chuck if he is, but I personally won't believe it until we go an entire season without seeing the character in any manner, shape or form. Sorry, I have NO FAITH that this isn't another "gotcha" moment in this show.

Now, I'll return to the comments.

I don't know that I believe it. I feel like they will never let him go. 🙄

On 5/17/2018 at 11:28 PM, BoxManLocke said:

I love how casual Bobby and Mary are about leaving the alternate human race be wiped out because the main actors of the resistance traveled to another world.

 

"Heh, I guess I'll just stay here. Now how about a relaxing stroll in the woods, my dear ?"

That scene was weird and goes back to the weird pacing. There needed to be something else. A bigger time jump? An earlier-in-the-season transition. Something

On 5/17/2018 at 11:45 PM, sarthaz said:

Seriously, who is the fuckwit who approved that freeze-frame? How is it possible that anyone on staff thought that was a good idea?

All I could think about was The French Mistake. 

On 5/18/2018 at 12:26 AM, Casseiopeia said:

 

I love that "most of the refugees have settled in town".  Really?  Did they all get jobs at Walmart?  How are they paying rent?

I doubt we will actually follow them, but it actually could be interesting if they tried to find AU loved ones or even themselves. How weird would that be? It seems like the reapers should be real pissed about a bunch of duplicates in the timeline, but what do I know?

On 5/18/2018 at 11:03 AM, MysteryGuest said:

I'd tune in for a few episodes of Rowena and Charlie Take on the World, or Redheads Run Amok.  I actually missed Rowena in this episode.  

I would 100% watch this.

Pacing issues and predictability aside, this felt like a splod end to an uneven season. I am not enthusiastic about Deachael. I have no doubt JA will do a great job, but I kinda want to see the guys as the guys? I have a bit of fatigue wrt this type of storyline. Still, it is great to get some payoff.

[Katy M]

12 hours ago, The Companion said:

The pacing was all sorts of wrong here. I might have found the AU refugees interesting had they not stuffed it into this episode and hurried the conclusion.

I like Maggie.  I feel like they should have brought her back and left everyone else behind to protect their own world.  Which would be much easier since Michael came over here.

 

12 hours ago, The Companion said:

doubt we will actually follow them, but it actually could be interesting if they tried to find AU loved ones or even themselves. How weird would that be? It seems like the reapers should be real pissed about a bunch of duplicates in the timeline, but what do I know?

You know, I had literally never given that any thought.  Even though we ran into tons of AU characters that we know (OK, Bobby and Charlie might not qualify as tons), that would probably mean taht most of the newbies that came over have counterparts.  Who probably are just normal people since our world wasn't as screwed up.  

Have I mentioned how much I hate AUs?  More than 6 million times I mean?  Because I feel like that's the minimum amount of times I should mention it.

12 hours ago, The Companion said:

I have no doubt JA will do a great job, but I kinda want to see the guys as the guys?

That's how I feel 100% of the time.  But, I know I'm the minority.  Lots of people like it when the guys get possessed or go darkside.  But, I like them as them.

[gonzosgirrl]

In my opinion, it was when this episode made it to air with that marionette fight intact that Jensen decided to throw in the towel on this show. I won't be persuaded otherwise.

[The Companion]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

You know, I had literally never given that any thought.  Even though we ran into tons of AU characters that we know (OK, Bobby and Charlie might not qualify as tons), that would probably mean taht most of the newbies that came over have counterparts.  Who probably are just normal people since our world wasn't as screwed up.  

Have I mentioned how much I hate AUs?  More than 6 million times I mean?  Because I feel like that's the minimum amount of times I should mention it.

That's how I feel 100% of the time.  But, I know I'm the minority.  Lots of people like it when the guys get possessed or go darkside.  But, I like them as them.

It would be chaos. Every person entering the universe has lost people. People are going to go see their child one last time, to see what he or she grew up to be. They will be curious about themselves in an alternate reality. It isn't unsinking of the Titantic level of chaos, but it is probably killing spree by Rowena levels at least. 

And I agree. I typically have mixed feelings about AU/possessed/evil twin versions of characters. It worked for me in Fringe. It absolutely didn't in The Magicians. I always end up missing the original/real/non-possessed person.