Dancing On The Grassy Knoll: Conspiracy Theories

[spanana]

That must be it. But why are they shutting down the BallroomStars1 guy and not all those others?  BallroomStars1 was consistently getting much higher view counts and still is, despite ABC opening up it's own channel. I understand they're trying to feed traffic to their own channel but it's like they're going after this 1 guy. I don't know if the ABCDWTS is accessible in the UK but DWTS is hugely popular there and there's been a campaign to get it put back on their UK channel so they can more easily watch it live. And they do hit up the website to vote.

 

It's not just the one channel.  They also have basically shut down dancingwts09, which got a lot of views and almost all of the vids from the last three years of DWTS have been deleted much to the outrage of fans.  While I think it's annoying to delete vids from the current season, I at least get that they are trying to direct people to their official channel.  But deleting videos from previous seasons that the official channel doesn't make available to fans?  It's not like there is any way to buy or view elsewhere, so I don't understand why they are now going after things that have been up for years.  Though I say that as a bitter fan who used to watch all my vids there and was pissed when all my faves got deleted.

[Thadeeeyus]

It's not just the one channel.  They also have basically shut down dancingwts09, which got a lot of views and almost all of the vids from the last three years of DWTS have been deleted much to the outrage of fans.  While I think it's annoying to delete vids from the current season, I at least get that they are trying to direct people to their official channel.  But deleting videos from previous seasons that the official channel doesn't make available to fans?  It's not like there is any way to buy or view elsewhere, so I don't understand why they are now going after things that have been up for years...

 

So that newer viewers can't see how good the show used to be???  That it was actually watchable.  Or see how the judges used to do a better job. 

[Uke]

It's not just the one channel.  They also have basically shut down dancingwts09, which got a lot of views and almost all of the vids from the last three years of DWTS have been deleted much to the outrage of fans.  While I think it's annoying to delete vids from the current season, I at least get that they are trying to direct people to their official channel.  But deleting videos from previous seasons that the official channel doesn't make available to fans?  It's not like there is any way to buy or view elsewhere, so I don't understand why they are now going after things that have been up for years.  Though I say that as a bitter fan who used to watch all my vids there and was pissed when all my faves got deleted.

 

That's ridiculous deleting all the prior season's videos that have been up for years.  Maybe they'll eventually backload the prior seasons, but I wouldn't hold my breath.  Some are trying to switch over to Daily Motion (as the BallroomStars1 guy is doing) but I suspect ABC will go after those next.

 

They sold rights for S4 through S13 to GSN and GSN seemed completely oblivious to the fact that each season is a continuum where one week leads to the next.  They started off showing a season in sequence start-to-finish but their regular viewers who are used to 30 minute game shows that they can sample pot luck style, (miss 1 and it's no big deal, just watch another) complained loudly. So GSN tried again showing a DWTS episode here, another one there, out of sequence, and still their game show viewers complained. DWTS isn't a traditional game show. They never did show all the seasons they had bought rights to.  But this illustrates that BBC/ABC/Disney was trying to make additional money for what they've got.

 

I've seen a lot of people ask why they haven't sold dvds for each season but there's supposition that it's a music rights issue. I guess by corralling all the videos onto their own youtube channel, they can make money from the advertising.

 

I record each week as I watch so I've got all the seasons on disk but I'd suggest downloading the videos that you want to keep as they are posted. I think there's every chance that before next season, they could clean house and sweep this season's videos off their channel.

[crowceilidh]

Also, ABC doesn`t have a way of letting Canadian viewers watch their videos.  I know they don`t care, because their direct ad revenue isn`t affected, but I would guess that they`ve lost sales in Canada (I don`t think CTV carries it anymore (the last season they carried was in 2013 I think) - dunno about any other Cdn channel) and I am positive that hurts their pocketbook.

[Stitsch]

It might just be me, but I felt that CA telling Bethany that she resembled Nicole Scherzinger in a tango that, in my opinion, deserved straight 8s, was foreshadowing -- we're going to see Golden Boy and the YouTube doll that he dragged around the floor last night in the F3. 

[Uke]

kitcloudkicker, on 28 Oct 2014 - 11:50 AM, Week 7 Halloween said:

 

The thing I'm curious about, is that the dancers don't just get to blow tens of thousands of dollars (guessing) on giant production numbers in a vacuum - they have to be being actively encouraged and supported in it by the show. Len's complaints seem to be producer-level, "direction the show is taking" complaints. Kind of curious if he decided to shout and grump about it on the show live, since that's his forum. I'd be curious to know if there's more behind the scenes drama on that. I know Len's been around forever - does he have any sort of producer credit or sayso in the direction it goes, or is he contracted simply to judge?

Interesting point. In past seasons Len had an Executive Producer credit.  I just looked at last night's ending credits and there was no producer credit for him. Went back to week 1 Monday where they gave a more complete list of credits - no Len. I don't know when that ended.   His IMDB listing only shows him as a judge or head judge.  But I recall when he was first noticed in the credits, whichever season it was, that there was assumptions that Len was informed of how the votes were going for each couple and who was going to be eliminated each week due to his EP role.  New showrunner, new executive team?  There could very well be more to the story.

[ari333]

Bumping the knoll..... after willow got hosed, imo. Thoughts? :)

[Andiethewestie]

Bumping the knoll..... after willow got hosed, imo. Thoughts? :)

 Willow is exactly the type of contestant the immunity was created for.. I just think Derek got to the showrunners first. Mark should be highly pissed at his Bro for the play. Either the show or Derek needs to settle down a little and be confident that his choreography would be  competent and not have to be so micromanaged and pull focus so much to remind everyone about how important DH  is to the vote. .  

[Saylii]

It's obvious that the producers want Rumer, Nastia, and Riker in the finals. They've shown in the past that they'll do just about anything to preserve their finale visions (see: Kane, Chelsea and her 15 points.)

However, this season isn't really working out how they want. Any combination of the four rejects could have played heavy spoilers to their plans without being all that good. Willow was never going to make it past Nastia and Rumer to the producers and the show hate same-sex finales. Better to cut Willow loose now when they have the chance before they can't do anything about it. (Yes, I do think Nastia was the true last place due to votes dropping off because Derek announced his injury before voting was over.)

Noah and Robert will be the next two eliminated. Chris will go fourth only if they give Riker another 15 point gift. I suspect that Chris is leading the fan votes.

[RemoteControl88]

This season is the first time in a long time where I don't have a  real sense of where the votes are. I don't think anyone is running away with votes. I think it changes each week. And Tom's cryptic tweet before the show really has be scratching my head.

Edited April 29, 2015 by RemoteControl88

[truthaboutluv]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think there was some manipulation at work with Willow's exit. I called Willow likely not getting votes when she was so over scored for her contemporary and was put in jeopardy before. I thought both her and Riker were in trouble and if anyone might have been saved by the double elimination being changed it was probably him.

I don't buy Nastia was in trouble because of Derek's injury. Phone voting closes an hour after the show ends. Derek didn't post about his injury until early morning, like 3 or so in the morning, which means most people likely didn't know about it until Tuesday morning.

Yes, text and online voting is open until late Tuesday morning, but I'm pretty sure most people had done all the voting they were going to. And it's not like they can go back and change their votes once it's in. I've also been saying it for weeks but I do think some are underestimating Nastia's voting base, irrespective of Derek. I have a friend who loves Val but is voting for Nastia because she has been a huge fan of hers for years.

Edited April 30, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[katha]

I've seen quite a few people here and elsewhere express before this season started and throughout the weeks that Willow had questionable fanbase. Last week I had a bad feeling but was hoping I was wrong, I've seen that sentiment from others as well. Sadly it wasn't a "shocking elimination" IMO. Noah likely gets massive votes for being an inspiration and serving his country, Chris has Bachelor Nation, Robert has the showmance (shippers are obsessed and dedicated voters) and his Shark Tank fans. All three of them also appeal to the core demo of the show in a way Willow really, really doesn't. Perhaps the disconnect between her and the general audience was even bigger than usual because in contrast to the other DWTS teenagers we had before her she is a kid, not a young woman.

 

One problem was also that the fanbase she has didn't understand that they needed to vote for her. It came up again and again in the comments on her social media and made me queasy for her survival chances. They saw she did well with the judges, they loved her dances and watched them and commented to her how great she did and how they adored her, but many of them didn't seem to get how important voting was. Willow urged them, Mark urged them, some of the other fans urged them, but IMO it just seemed that many of her fans were either so young or hadn't watched DWTS before and just didn't really get how it worked (and if they did vote there were probably also not many among them who made 3 million e-mail accounts like stans do.) They just saw that she did very well and that the judges praised her and she kept improving and thought everything was fine. Now they're massively upset, of course.

Edited April 30, 2015 by katha

[truthaboutluv]

One problem was also that the fanbase she has didn't understand that they needed to vote for her. It came up again and again in the comments on her social media and made me queasy for her survival chances.

 

 

This reminds me of what happened with Bethany and why I knew there was no way she would win even with the large online presence/following she has. I would glance at Bethany's Instagram during the season and it was clear that most of her fans almost seemed to resent her for trying something new and pretty much just wanted her to stay in her room making videos. Everytime she would post a picture after the show, there would be comments asking when the show aired, if she won, how you vote and just stuff that made it clear they weren't paying any attention to what was happening with her on the show.

 

I definitely don't think there was some conspiracy against Willow or a manipulation of the votes. I think it was a combination of things:

 

1. The social media thing as you noted and her fanbase not realizing the importance of them voting for her. 

2. The show's demographic not being the type to vote for her. Yes Sadie did well last season but Sadie had the benefit of her family's reality show which has a huge following and the Christian/Middle America block who loved her "good girl" values. 

3. Yes, Willow is part of The Hunger Games which is a huge franchise and she does a great job in it but as a fan of the movies (and books), I can say that the franchise is really a vehicle for Jennifer Lawrence more than anyone else.  She is really the one who has benefited the most and ultimately carries it. So in other words I don't know that fans of the movie and book series were particularly invested in Willow's journey on the show. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I think it totally sucks that she was eliminated, especially with some of the people left but I just don't think there were any shenanigans tied to her exit.

Edited April 30, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[CED9]

I saw so many people say that Willow was their "second favorite" that that had to have been a factor. Either people were vote splitting or voting solely for their main favorite while just really liking watching her. But I didn't see a whole heck of a lot of people outside those who vote for Mark at all costs voting just for her.

Also, there's the whole thing that Chris and Robert are both ABC property. Of course they want them in as long as possible. Business to them. Annoying for us.

[howmanywords]

Count me in the group who thinks there was nothing fishy about Willow leaving. Willow's only claim to fame is the Hunger Games movies.  Since I never saw the movies I had no idea who she was so I dont think I was alone..so the only fanbase she had was definitely questionable. And she hit the same problem many of these youngin's with the loud, very young fanbases encounter - they dont vote or they simply dont vote enough. Her fans all over Twitter and Instagram trying to build a campaign to bring her back.  These sounds like children who dont understand a thing about how this show works. I think Ryker is probably experiencing the same thing hence why they keep showing him in jeopardy. IMO he's not pulling in the votes.

[tarotx]

Riker at least has his& Allison's teen beach movie DWTS package with Ross playing on the Disney Channel. Willow didn't have that. I think she might have even stayed as long as she did based on Marks fans.

[CED9]

Honestly, the only "issue" I had with it was that they threw her in the bottom 2 with Rumer and Val. Way to make it obvious to the kid that she was the one going.

Sidenote though: They didn't do their usual "while not necessarily the bottom 2" spiel, so was that really the bottom 2 and the producers were panicked? That's why they trotted out Bruce in Rumer's package and kept repeating her number and practically begging people to vote?

Edited April 30, 2015 by CED9

[katha]

I already talked about that in the episode thread, but I am rather conflicted about what DWTS did this season with Willow. I think she did fabulous, she seemed to love being there and was so adorably excited about everything, I think they asked a lot of Mark with this assignment and he really delivered in teaching her, in coming up with age-appropriate routines and most importantly in taking good care of her and making sure the experience didn't become too stressful and a chore for her.

 

But in many ways this was stacked against her and I think you can question the decision-making by TPTB here: The way Shirley basically confirmed on AB that Mark used stories and characters every week to be able to generate some sort of partner chemistry on the dance floor with her said it all. And you can't do that equally well with all dance styles...thus again creating the image of "Mark dances with little girl" that likely repelled lots of the core audience. Teen stars on this show all had disadvantages going in this direction, but nothing ever this extreme. And they always bring on the youngsters and the youngsters always have problems with fanbases that tweet and instagram, but don't vote. Yet the producers never learn. But things being stacked against them is true for all candidates on this show that aren't brought on as obvious contenders. I guess you could ask the question if you should put a 14 year old in that position. I don't know myself, since I liked watching her a lot and the ugliness at the end doesn't change my enjoyment of her season.

 

The "problem" became to some degree that she started dancing at a level that probably hugely outpaced her voting potential.

Edited April 30, 2015 by katha

[Uke]

I already talked about that in the episode thread, but I am rather conflicted about what DWTS did this season with Willow. I think she did fabulous, she seemed to love being there and was so adorably excited about everything, I think they asked a lot of Mark with this assignment and he really delivered in teaching her, in coming up with age-appropriate routines and most importantly in taking good care of her and making sure the experience didn't become too stressful and a chore for her.

 

But in many ways this was stacked against her and I think you can question the decision-making by TPTB here: The way Shirley basically confirmed on AB that Mark used stories and characters every week to be able to generate some sort of partner chemistry on the dance floor with her said it all. And you can't do that equally well with all dance styles...thus again creating the image of "Mark dances with little girl" that likely repelled lots of the core audience. Teen stars on this show all had disadvantages going in this direction, but nothing ever this extreme. And they always bring on the youngsters and the youngsters always have problems with fanbases that tweet and instagram, but don't vote. Yet the producers never learn. But things being stacked against them is true for all candidates on this show that aren't brought on as obvious contenders. I guess you could ask the question if you should put a 14 year old in that position. I don't know myself, since I liked watching her a lot and the ugliness at the end doesn't change my enjoyment of her season.

 

The "problem" became to some degree that she started dancing at a level that probably hugely outpaced her voting potential.

 

I agree that Willow's elimination was a foreseeable unfortunate circumstance and no producer-driven fishiness was involved. BUT I also agree with whoever said it upthread or on another thread that this is exactly the type of situation that the immunity should be used for.  I don't believe for a minute that Nastia "needed" the immunity. The judges determine who gets the immunity by their scores.  They could have easily given Willow one more point over Nastia if they wanted to save her. The dances Mark was creating for Willow were media-attention-getting. You'd think TPTB liked that. I just don't understand it. Maybe they just liked having a "shocking" elimination that really wasn't shocking to anyone except maybe Willow herself.

 

 But I do know Mark's fans were working with Willow's fan groups trying to get out the message that they have to vote. But these kids would have to get their homework done before they could watch tv or they had bedtime or, or, or.  All the kid's excuses. They'd generally watch the videos after school the next day.  Too late to phone vote. Apparently kids aren't using FB much anymore (since their parents are on it) and it's too much effort to set up an account on the ABC site.  I'd bet Riker is having the same problem, though his fans are probably older whereas Willow's fans are probably in the 8-14 range.

[katha]

Well, since we're in the conspiracy thread: But giving immunity to Willow might have spelled trouble for someone else they wanted to keep more? Riker? Rumer? They made it blatantly obvious they want a Riker, Rumer and Nastia final.Or they figured since Willow is the lowest in votes anyway, might as well keep Chris and Robert around for another week, since they are ABC boys after all. And they had their "shocking elimination" headlines for this week, having her swept up in the double elimination next week wouldn't have been as dramatic.

[Uke]

Well, since we're in the conspiracy thread: But giving immunity to Willow might have spelled trouble for someone else they wanted to keep more? Riker? Rumer? They made it blatantly obvious they want a Riker, Rumer and Nastia final.Or they figured since Willow is the lowest in votes anyway, might as well keep Chris and Robert around for another week, since they are ABC boys after all. And they had their "shocking elimination" headlines for this week, having her swept up in the double elimination next week wouldn't have been as dramatic.

 

That's true (grumble, grumble).  Erin emphasizing the importance of dialing the correct number for Rumer. Riker's overscoring.  Grrrr. I don't want to think Willow got thrown under the bus.

[crowceilidh]

I wondered if Nastia had been guaranteed immunity because of the training issue with Derek having to re-jig the main dance.  She ostensibly (I never know how much I believe it isn't fixed) had to learn 4 dances this week.  Maybe tptb said, just practise the big one and we'll give you immunity so you don't have to do the others.  However, she HAS been practising with Sasha for a little while now, so maybe that isn't likely.

[Uke]

I wondered if Nastia had been guaranteed immunity because of the training issue with Derek having to re-jig the main dance.  She ostensibly (I never know how much I believe it isn't fixed) had to learn 4 dances this week.  Maybe tptb said, just practise the big one and we'll give you immunity so you don't have to do the others.  However, she HAS been practising with Sasha for a little while now, so maybe that isn't likely.

 

I'm pretty sure the pros sorted out the dance off dances ahead of time like they did previously. Allison alluded to this on All-Access, though she didn't want to just come out and say it. She did mention that not all the couples have previously learned all 3 dances and her "strategy" was about getting salsa. In this way, each couple only has to learn their main dance and the agreed upon dance.  For this, Derek would have to be in on the planning as well since theoretically he didn't know he'd get immunity.

[sarahlee]

Love that I just found this thread because I've been calling shenanigans since yesterday. I live in Indianapolis where just yesterday, they announced the Grand Marshall of the Indy 500 Parade. Nastia Lukin. My 13 year old actually said - "Well, we know the fix is in." She has no connection to Indianapolis. She is a former Olympic Gold Medalist, of course, but from 2 Olympics ago. But she is on DWTS which is on ABC and is the same channel that broadcasts the Indy 500. If she wins now, I don't think I will ever believe it was random.

[dwtsgueststars]

When I met with the executive producers last week (for a DWTS secrets piece coming soon!) they admitted that voting this season has been awfully close, with various couples in the lead at different weeks this season.

 

from this article

 

This tells me that

1- not to many viewers are voting

2 -Judges' scores have more power

3- if they had given Willow the immunity, a real shocking elimination would have happened (and I don't mean Riker.) Remember, they canceled the double elimination and brought the immunity challenge that week.

Edited May 6, 2015 by dwtsgueststars

[tarotx]

Usa Gymnastics has ties to Indianapolis. Shawn Johnson is doing the kids day event this year.

Love that I just found this thread because I've been calling shenanigans since yesterday. I live in Indianapolis where just yesterday, they announced the Grand Marshall of the Indy 500 Parade. Nastia Lukin. My 13 year old actually said - "Well, we know the fix is in." She has no connection to Indianapolis. She is a former Olympic Gold Medalist, of course, but from 2 Olympics ago. But she is on DWTS which is on ABC and is the same channel that broadcasts the Indy 500. If she wins now, I don't think I will ever believe it was random.

[sarahlee]

OK. Fair enough. 

[ari333]

Boom.

There it eh-is

Edited May 13, 2015 by ari333

[Missy Vixen]

I'm wondering how much the "winner" of DWTS is chosen because his or her schedule lends itself to participating in the DWTS tour, etcetera...

[OakGoblinFly]

Lately I think the "winners" are chosen based on which makes the most interesting story line; this show hasn't been about dancing in years.

[Uke]

I'm wondering how much the "winner" of DWTS is chosen because his or her schedule lends itself to participating in the DWTS tour, etcetera...

 

Until last season, I didn't think TPTB really cared who won so long as the person was a reasonably good dancer. But last season, as soon as Alfonso announced he'd be on the tour, I knew he'd take home the trophy.  Game over. Sadie and Janel could have just packed up and gone home right then and there.  I don't think storyline makes any difference in week 10 but it's true that the show hasn't been about dancing for years.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Uke

[dwtsgueststars]

I do believe Nastia and Derek were a threat to Val and Rumer. TPTB made sure to show Nastia in a bad light with the package and stuff. I mean, I lost count how many times we saw that same clip from them.. Meanwhile, Rumer's  clips were way more interesting and way longer.

 

Rumer and Val have no competition now.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dwtsgueststars

[howmanywords]

Apparently Alfonso & Sadie Robertson will be dancing together on the finale.  She posted about it on Instagram. I love me some Alfonso and all, but lord, they really cant quit him, can they? 

[truthaboutluv]

I love me some Alfonso and all, but lord, they really cant quit him, can they?

 

 

Seriously. Apparently he's also going to be part of the show's panel at Paley Fest. Also, I think this is the wrong thread and maybe this should be in DWTS Media. 

[Uke]

Apparently Alfonso & Sadie Robertson will be dancing together on the finale.  She posted about it on Instagram. I love me some Alfonso and all, but lord, they really cant quit him, can they? 

Yes, they mentioned it on the Paley Center discussion (pleeeeeze no more of that Carlton dance). Apparently Amy and Noah will also be dancing together for something.

[gohawks]

Apparently Alfonso & Sadie Robertson will be dancing together on the finale. She posted about it on Instagram. I love me some Alfonso and all, but lord, they really cant quit him, can they?

Maybe he will take Len's place. Although, I wonder if he is going to take Tom's place on AFV. Tom was on Wendy William's show today and said the announcement about his AFV replacement will be on the DWTS finale. Edited May 15, 2015 by gohawks

[PBGamer89]

Alfonso reminds me of the guy that graduates from high school and the following school year always seen hanging around the school. It's like dude, you competed, you won, now get over it.

[Serendi]

On the other hand, if they keep paying him money, why not?

[truthaboutluv]

Alfonso reminds me of the guy that graduates from high school and the following school year always seen hanging around the school. It's like dude, you competed, you won, now get over it.

 

So basically he's Matthew McConaughey's character in Dazed and Confused. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[jennifer6973]

or Screech.

 

He's the reigning Champion.  He loves the show, and I think this is the first time the RC has been available to do a lot after their season was over.

[anony mouse]

Yes, they mentioned it on the Paley Center discussion (pleeeeeze no more of that Carlton dance). Apparently Amy and Noah will also be dancing together for something.

Wow, that's gross. To me, it really reeks of tokenism.

[Uke]

Wow, that's gross. To me, it really reeks of tokenism.

Yes, that rubs me the wrong way also. It was a really quick statement but I'm pretty sure I heard him say that Derek would dance with them because my instant reaction was why Derek and not Sharna?

[truthaboutluv]

Maybe because Sharna's still in the competition and is currently working on coming up with all of Noah's numbers for Monday night's finale? Derek doesn't have to worry about a freestyle and whatever else and he competed with Amy so he has some experience working with their limitations. Personally I agree that I don't see why there is even a need to have Amy and Noah dance together but I'm hardly surprised by it because the show is that corny. 

[dwtsgueststars]

HMM! Maybe Derek and Amy are in Sharna and Noah's freestyle.

[kitcloudkicker]

I follow Amy on instagram, and she was in Puerto Rico getting engaged as of yesterday, so if she's dancing she better get back quick. My guess, if they're doing this, is a bumper in the final results show a la the Meryl/Charlie dance last year. 

 

Love Amy, don't love consistently lumping her in with Noah. :/

[howmanywords]

Maybe he will take Len's place. Although, I wonder if he is going to take Tom's place on AFV. Tom was on Wendy William's show today and said the announcement about his AFV replacement will be on the DWTS finale.

About a month ago someone left him a comment on Instagram that said something like "nice meeting you at DWTS yesterday, hope you get the Funniest Home Videos gig". I figured this person must have heard something about him being in the running. So even more now I'm banking on him being the replacement.

[OnceSane]

Topic, please.

[Missy Vixen]

SPOILER, and it's trending right now on Twitter.

 

The winner has already been determined, according to a DWTS "insider". I don't know how to make the "spoiler" button over here or I would post the info behind it.

[magpye29]

I can't find it!  (I don't know how to use twitter!)

[tessaforever]

That headline has been around for days. It's not a spoiler, just an insider saying that Rumer has been the most consistent one all season and deserves to win.