S02.E05: Chapter 13

[Bort]

Quote

An uneasy reunion leads to a shocking truth.

[AimingforYoko]

I'm a little proud of myself that I guessed it was Amy's body when David had that first flash. This. Fucking. Show.

[mammaM]

OK, good episode blah blah blah...but next week, what the hell was that?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Did Amy meet Oliver after she was rescued from Division 3 last season?

I'm somewhat surprised that David didn't "hear" Amy when she was screaming out in agony.

[WatchrTina]

I keep wondering if Dan Stevens knew what he was getting into when he signed on to this show because . . . damn.

So . . . is David's sister (Amy) dead or is Lenny's consciousness co-habitating in Amy's "re-scupted" body along with the suppressed consciousness of the original occupant (sort of like the way Farouk used to co-habitate in David's brain)?

Edited May 2, 2018 by WatchrTina

[AnimeMania]

I wonder if it is important that Amy said she dreamed she had a moustache and worked with somebody who had an upside-down basket on their head. Did anybody else think the face of the creature with the upside-down basket on their head looked like the creature that crawled into Ptonomy's ear.

[AimingforYoko]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Did anybody else think the face of the creature with the upside-down basket on their head looked like the creature that crawled into Ptonomy's ear.

I thought that was because Ptonomy was infected, so that's the delusion.

Also, Lenny talking about Rondo as something her "Gran-Gran" drank? That didn't make me feel old at all. Thanks a bunch, Legion.

[rmontro]

Okay, Oliver/SK "carved" Lenny a new body out of Amy's.  Here's my question:

WAS that Lenny's body that they had dug up in the desert?  If so, why was that DEVICE buried with her?

Why did they need Lenny's body anyway, to serve as some sort of template for the device?  But again, where did that device come from?

 

12 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Also, Lenny talking about Rondo as something her "Gran-Gran" drank? That didn't make me feel old at all. Thanks a bunch, Legion.

I didn't realize Rondo was a real drink.  I'm old enough to remember it, but I don't.  I'm sure I never tried it.

[justmehere]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Why did they need Lenny's body anyway, to serve as some sort of template for the device? 

I assumed, that since they took some of her (rotting) flesh, that yes, it was her DNA that re-created her. No idea about how the device got there.

My question: Why, after making new-Lenny, was she back in the grave in the desert? Naked? (If she was in Amy's house, why not give her some of Amy's clothes?) Or was she ever really in Amy's house? (The possibility of which only makes it more confusing.)

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, rmontro said:

where did that device come from?

I thought in the previews they showed Lenny and Oliver break into the good guys compound, kill a bunch of people and steal the device.

[rmontro]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I thought in the previews they showed Lenny and Oliver break into the good guys compound, kill a bunch of people and steal the device.

That's right, I just watched this back.  I had thought on first watch that Oliver had pulled the device out of the coffin, but that wasn't the case.  So now that makes sense.  

To make matters worse, it appears that I missed last week's episode.  I'm sure it says something about this show that I watched this episode after missing the last one without realizing it.  :)

9 hours ago, justmehere said:

I assumed, that since they took some of her (rotting) flesh, that yes, it was her DNA that re-created her. No idea about how the device got there.

My question: Why, after making new-Lenny, was she back in the grave in the desert? Naked? (If she was in Amy's house, why not give her some of Amy's clothes?) Or was she ever really in Amy's house? (The possibility of which only makes it more confusing.)

Maybe instead of literally "carving" Amy's body to look like Lenny, maybe it transferred her life force into Lenny's corpse in the desert.  As for why she was naked, she had been mixed in with the wall, most of her body was probably a mess.  Maybe her clothes didn't survive.  Now where did that horse come from?....

[ItCouldBeWorse]

31 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Maybe instead of literally "carving" Amy's body to look like Lenny, maybe it transferred her life force into Lenny's corpse in the desert.  As for why she was naked, she had been mixed in with the wall, most of her body was probably a mess.  Maybe her clothes didn't survive.  Now where did that horse come from?....

Lenny definitely took over Amy's body-hence the blue eyes. Her own corpse must be in at least 2 pieces, unless they buried her with a piece of wall holding her together.

I also questioned why she was naked and crawling in the desert.  How did Farouk know she would be able to make it back to Division 3? And why is he torturing David by using Amy's body? Aren't they working together to find Farouk's body? Does Farouk now have enough information to find the body himself?

Edited May 3, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Sakura12]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

To make matters worse, it appears that I missed last week's episode.  I'm sure it says something about this show that I watched this episode after missing the last one without realizing it.  

I did that, I watched the third episode first, I was confused but didn't think anything of it because that's how this show rolls. I realized almost halfway through that I started the wrong episode. 

I think they morphed Amy's body to become Lenny's. (why does Division 3 have that thing anyway), only they couldn't change the eye color for some reason. I guess they threw her back in the dessert to make it look like Lenny came back to life? Also I thought we found out Lenny was a guy? Or did David meet two Lenny's? 

[AnimeMania]

39 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Also I thought we found out Lenny was a guy?

In the comic book.

So Lenny and Farouk live inside Oliver's brain. The use the device on Lenny to test whether it works. They don't need Lenny any more so they dump her. Now they heading to Farouk's body. I think this is what happened. Or there are two Lennys, the blue-eyed one is David's sister and the one riding in the desert on a horse with no name is the real Lenny.

[tennisgurl]

I suspected something like this was going to happen, but that was freaking brutal. Poor Amy. Poor David. It looks like they reshaped Amy's body to fit Lenny, for whatever nefarious reason they have to get Lenny a body again. I wonder if Amy is somehow still alive in her/Lenny's head, or at least her subconscious is, and she will end trying to exert some control over her body? And she and Lenny will have to share a body? Its not like they would be the only people on this show to share a body! 

This freaking show.  

[rmontro]

8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think they morphed Amy's body to become Lenny's. (why does Division 3 have that thing anyway), only they couldn't change the eye color for some reason

Or maybe Farouk deliberately left the eyes blue, for whatever reason;  To remind Lenny of where her body came from (might cause some guilt), and to torment David because he'd always be looking into his sister's eyes.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I wonder if Amy is somehow still alive in her/Lenny's head, or at least her subconscious is, and she will end trying to exert some control over her body? And she and Lenny will have to share a body? Its not like they would be the only people on this show to share a body! 

Good point, I wouldn't be surprised to see Amy popping up inside Lenny's head.  Unless they just don't want to pay the actress anymore.  Like you say, it would be right up this show's alley.

[AKA...CJ86]

Amy and Lenny, that was some body horror.  I wasn't here for that.  I was screaming with Amy/Lenny.  Will Amy now be with Lenny?  Like, in her head?  And I kept thinking, there is someone I'm forgetting that hasn't really had an impact this season... and it was Amy.  And she certainly had an impact now...

Farouk likes torturing everyone, doesn't he?  Mentally...

I living for manipulating Lenny with her stories of "Gran-gran"... 

[Cthulhudrew]

15 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Also I thought we found out Lenny was a guy? Or did David meet two Lenny's? 

That's my recollection, too. In one of David's flashbacks last season where he was hanging out with Lenny getting high in his apartment, it was a kid of overweight, middle-aged guy.

From some of "Lenny's" scenes and dialogue this episode, I get the sense that Amy is still in her resculpted body along with "Lenny."

[thuganomics85]

Noah Hawley: "Alright, cast.  Just got the memo from FX that we are way behind in the network's butt shot quota, so we need to cover some ground here.  We already did Dan Stevens and Rachel Keller last season, so any takers this time?"

Aubrey Plaza: "OK, fine!  I'll do it this time.  But make sure you do it in a disturbing and trippy way."

Noah Hawley: "Of course!  Who do you think you're talking too?!!"

Well, that was certainly a fucked-up ending.  Basically, it looks like Farouk brought back Lenny by using Amy/David's sisters' body?  And for some reason Lenny still has Amy's eyes?  Is Amy actually dead/gone for good or is she now in Lenny's head?  So many questions, but either way, Farouk made damn sure that David will be gunning for him.

Sounds like Oliver knows Farouk's weakness and will try and take him out somewhere down the line.  Of course, has to be cagey about it.  Something about "1 + 1?"

"Apparently on Legion!"  Oh, Narrator Jon Hamm!  You know this show all too well!

[Swellcatt]

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

That's my recollection, too. In one of David's flashbacks last season where he was hanging out with Lenny getting high in his apartment, it was a kid of overweight, middle-aged guy.

From some of "Lenny's" scenes and dialogue this episode, I get the sense that Amy is still in her resculpted body along with "Lenny."

IT's so hard to follow this show, but from what my mind tells me (is it real or not? ha ha) David met the real Lenny (Aubrey Plaza) in Clockworks. Prior to clockworks he was potentially hanging out with an older man who he would get high with. When Shadow King took Lenny, he then changed the memories to be his pal Lenny, Aubrey Plaza. Or maybe those memories never happened? Geez Louise.  I still love this show though! I actually wondered if Lenny was Amy in the first 15 minutes. Her hair was longer and her dress and the blue eyes. And then I was like, no, that's too crazy and then Amy was in the show and then I was sad for them!

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Swellcatt said:

IT's so hard to follow this show, but from what my mind tells me (is it real or not? ha ha) David met the real Lenny (Aubrey Plaza) in Clockworks. Prior to clockworks he was potentially hanging out with an older man who he would get high with. When Shadow King took Lenny, he then changed the memories to be his pal Lenny, Aubrey Plaza.

My brain is going to have a meltdown watching this show.  

Anyway, Audrey Plaza was on Conan the other night, and she talked about how she had auditioned for the show.  She had auditioned for some other role, but was called in for a meeting and was told she could have the part of Lenny.  And she said "Isn't that the middle aged guy who is a drug addict?", and they said "Yeah, we think you're perfect for it".

Not sure if that helps any though...  More of an amusing anecdote... 

I'm trying to follow what you're saying:  According to your theory, was there ever really a middle aged guy he got high with or not?  And was that guy named Lenny?

[Swellcatt]

19 minutes ago, rmontro said:

My brain is going to have a meltdown watching this show.  

Anyway, Audrey Plaza was on Conan the other night, and she talked about how she had auditioned for the show.  She had auditioned for some other role, but was called in for a meeting and was told she could have the part of Lenny.  And she said "Isn't that the middle aged guy who is a drug addict?", and they said "Yeah, we think you're perfect for it".

Not sure if that helps any though...  More of an amusing anecdote... 

I'm trying to follow what you're saying:  According to your theory, was there ever really a middle aged guy he got high with or not?  And was that guy named Lenny?

Yeah I don't know. All of David's memories have been manipulated by SK. Even when he said to Lenny a few episodes ago, "were you ever real?" Means he doesn't really know. I have heard that the original Lenny was a guy but remember that last season, prior to Clockworks, when he had that girl friend, he "interacted" with Lenny but now that I think about it, I think that was an SK manipulation that made him remember that memory differently. I think Ptonomy helped him with that.I should go back and rewatch and not offer my random thoughts. ha ha. 

[rmontro]

4 minutes ago, Swellcatt said:

Yeah I don't know. All of David's memories have been manipulated by SK. Even when he said to Lenny a few episodes ago, "were you ever real?" Means he doesn't really know. I have heard that the original Lenny was a guy but remember that last season, prior to Clockworks, when he had that girl friend, he "interacted" with Lenny but now that I think about it, I think that was an SK manipulation that made him remember that memory differently. I think Ptonomy helped him with that.I should go back and rewatch and not offer my random thoughts. ha ha. 

My general attitude with this show is that if you watch long enough, everything will make sense.  However:

I have a feeling that if we went back and rewatched, we'd end up with as many questions as answers.  If not more.

[Sakura12]

I thought it was the shrink at Clockworks that revealed Lenny was a guy? Or maybe that wasn't the shrink and was someone made to look like him.

This show hurts my brain. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Sakura12

[ItCouldBeWorse]

13 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

On 5/3/2018 at 10:22 AM, Sakura12 said:

Also I thought we found out Lenny was a guy? Or did David meet two Lenny's? 

That's my recollection, too. In one of David's flashbacks last season where he was hanging out with Lenny getting high in his apartment, it was a kid of overweight, middle-aged guy.

I think that was Farouk messing with him, making him doubt everything.

[Cthulhudrew]

3 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think that was Farouk messing with him, making him doubt everything.

Or maybe Farouk is messing with all of us, and implanting memories that never really occurred...??? O.o

[Bruinsfan]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Well, that was certainly a fucked-up ending.  Basically, it looks like Farouk brought back Lenny by using Amy/David's sisters' body?  And for some reason Lenny still has Amy's eyes?  Is Amy actually dead/gone for good or is she now in Lenny's head?  So many questions, but either way, Farouk made damn sure that David will be gunning for him.

Sounds like Oliver knows Farouk's weakness and will try and take him out somewhere down the line.  Of course, has to be cagey about it.  Something about "1 + 1?"

Those flashes of memory that David was picking up appear to indicate Amy's mind is still in her body in some state. As does Lenny's immediate move to cradle him when he got upset—Lenny doesn't strike me as the compassionate comforting sort. I wonder if David can pull her out of Amy's brain and into his own, since she used to reside there for a while. Of course, that seemed to be Farouk's doing rather than something Syd did unintentionally when she accidentally killed Lenny with David's powers—David may have no idea how to begin transferring a whole human mind from one body to another.

I believe Ptonomy confirmed from other people's memories that David's junkie friend actually existed, and Farouk superimposed Lenny's image over him in David's memories.

My takeaway from Oliver's threat is that while Farouk is in his body, he's vulnerable to dying if Oliver should.

[KaleyFirefly]

Wow, this show. Every episode has so many things to process!

I admit, I didn't recognize Amy at first when they showed her. It's been a while since we've seen her. Why was her boyfriend driving this weird donut truck? Why were these guys going in and out of a hole in the desert where the truck was parked? Am I crazy or did I see that? Why was Amy having dreams about Basket-head (forgot his name) and the robot-mustache-women? Were they trying to somehow warn her about Farouk? Except I thought they'd been killed by either Farouk or the monk?? 

How did Amy know who Oliver was? How did she ever meet him before this? She said "Oliver" the minute he walked in.

So, Oliver is sometimes still Oliver!! He has flashes of memory about Melanie! And he knows a way to possibly kill Farouk because of a weakness he discovered! I couldn't figure out his clue though. I liked the very dark cover of an already dark Tom Petty song, "Don't Come Around Here No More," and of course thought of the creepy video, where Alice in Wonderland is on a table and then suddenly her body turns into a cake and Tom Petty as the Mad Hatter is cutting into her...it really went with that scene of Oliver cutting into (or whatever he was doing) to Amy's body. Also the lines "I don't feel you anymore, you darken my door" to indicate that Oliver is, at that moment, not in charge of his body.

I think Amy's consciousness must still be in the body (now Lenny's body) because David saw the flashes of him and his sister as kids. 

Well, now we know why Oliver and Lenny broke into Division 3 that time -- to steal that device that I guess can uses someone's DNA to make another person look like them. I'm not sure how Farouk then transferred Lenny's mind into the new body.

Why did Farouk choose David's sister's body for Lenny? Just to mess with David and make David even more determined to kill him? I thought he needed David's help to find his body?

This show confuses me but I love it anyway, it's so crazy and unpredictable.

Edited May 6, 2018 by KaleyFirefly

[McKinley]

I have lots of questions after this episode.  I feel like the writers are giving us a ton of clues.  Just not quite sure what they all mean.

The red and green door lights in the upside-down interrogation room were wrong.  The green light meant stop (door was locked) and the red light meant go (door was unlocked).  A throwback to the red/green lesson from a few eps ago and a hint that what we are seeing is not reality?

Is Admiral Fukuyama related to the SK?   Ptonomy, in Lenny's memories, looked into the basket and saw the creature.  When Oliver and SK were changing David's sister into Lenny, we saw the SK's face superimposed alternately behind and over what looked kind of like a bead curtain - the bead curtain looked the same as the ribbing of the basket, as if to imply that SK is Fukuyama.   Why was David's sister dreaming of Fukuyama and Vermillion?  Why did she dream that she is Vermillion?  Is it a foreshadowing that she will be taken over by Lenny's mind, and Lenny's mind is still an extension of the SK (David says he can't tell the difference between her thoughts and SK's thoughts)?  Is what we are seeing a false reality being controlled by the SK?   ETA:  Maybe not a false reality, but a red/green one: District 3 is not a place where everyone is working to fight the SK, but is actually controlled by the SK.   

I think the odds are good that David's sister is still intact within Lenny.  I think what we saw, through both Ptonomy and David looking into her mind, is that the two are fighting for control. And I think this plays into Oliver's cryptic "1 + 1" message to the SK.   Two minds sharing one body, so 1 + 1 does not equal 2.  Will Oliver emerge and take over control from the SK at a key moment, leading to his downfall?  The interrogation room was also room 2 (based on the large upside down 2 on the wall), which could imply the 2 minds in 1 body.

Today's lesson was about coincidence looking like conspiracy.  Intention assumed where there was only chance.  So, what was the coincidence?  

Edited May 8, 2018 by McKinley

[Rap541]

Quote

Intention assumed where there was only chance.  So, what was the coincidence?  

It was coincidence that Oliver and Farouk used Amy for Lennie's new body. She was a convenient host. Farouk may not even realize the connection David has to Amy and Lennie would not have mentioned it since Amy was her ticket back to the real world. 

David's anger will be directed at Farouk but it was coincidence, not intent, that Amy was used here.

That's my guess.

[justmehere]

12 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Farouk may not even realize the connection David has to Amy and Lennie would not have mentioned it since Amy was her ticket back to the real world. 

Farouk has been living inside David all of David's life, which included growing up with Amy. He was certainly aware of the outside world. I don't see how he wouldn't know the connection between them.

[Rap541]

True but... for all that Farouk has lived inside David, he doesn't seem to know David that well. And if Farouk is something of a sociopath, he may not realize or acknowledge that David has genuine feelings for others since he himself does not. It's just a thought. 

[superloislane]

I just watched this episode - holy crap that was messed up!

Poor Amy! I'm shocked that I actually guessed Lenny's body would be the sister when David had that quick memory flash - I never guess things right! I did wonder where she was since we hadn't seen her all season. But since David saw that memory which I'm guessing is Amy's, does that mean that Amy is still in there somewhere?

I don't really understand why Farouk would do this to David though. David is helping him find his body so why would Farouk want to torture him like that - unless he wants to start some sort of war between them? I can't imagine David continuing to help him now!

Why did Division 3 have that device to begin with and why the hell did Amy have a dream about having a moustache and seeing a man with a basket on his head? And what was with the donut truck and the miners (?) coming out of that hole in the desert?

And I thought the reveal last season was that Lenny was actually Benny? What happened to that - where did he go?

But at least Oliver had a quick vision of Melanie - that was lovely.

Onto the next episode now!

[millennium]

The last five minutes of this episode were positively chilling.   I hope that Amy has been utterly recycled, that no shred of her remains, because anything less would dilute the horror of this twist.

On 5/4/2018 at 5:31 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 

"Apparently on Legion!"  Oh, Narrator Jon Hamm!  You know this show all too well!

Best line of the whole episode.

[sciroccopt]

Hi, the beer that appears “Cerveja” is a replica of a Portuguese Beer called  “Sagres”, the rest of the logo is exactly equal, like a center part of the Portuguese flag. I wonder what was the process to include a Portuguese beer in the show, by the way, cerveja is the Portuguese word for beer.