S06.E06: Rififi

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, jjj said:

What a shift from the dead scorched earth in the opener, to Philip willing to go to Chicago at the end.

It's like the opposite of season 1. Elizabeth still won't just ask him to come, so this time he'll just come. Of course, he'll also tell on her to Oleg, but that's just going to Arkady their boss anyway and he should know about this stuff! I know Elizabeth hates his EST therapy bullshit, but I believe Philip is doing what would be called "all the emotional work."

Henry's home for 5 minutes and picks up on everything Paige still isn't aware of--I mean, she gets it when her parents fight but she clearly hasn't noticed that the fighting is different now. (I suspect she thinks she's more central to their conflict than she is.) I like how in this ep both Philip and Henry became aware of something bad going on while Paige's reaction was all about whether she can go to Chicago too because she's a spy, so the kid "in the know" was completely outside the family drama. She thinks everything comes back to spying and that spying is always kind of cool so a good thing. Elizabeth told her it wouldn't look right if she left too but of course she never had any intention of taking her no matter what.

Henry not only figured out that Philip's rage was more about Elizabeth than work but knew a suicide good-bye phone call when he heard it. He heard that his mother was sad the same way he hears it when he talks to his father. (Also nice that he acknowledged that he never speaks to his mother so just her talking to him at all was a red flag.) He'll probably be happy that Philip's going to follow her. But yikes about what he might say while he's gone! He passed Philip an important message in this ep.

Also I liked that he tricked his mom asking for a cigarette. It's a little thing, but it showed how Elizabeth was way to eager to make him an adult there and is disconnected from him and I like that he, like Philip, noticed that her smoking isn't normal. One thing clear in this ep is that Henry, unlike Paige, is basically independent. If his parents gets caught tomorrow he doesn't need any substitute parent, really.

Also no surprise that Henry responded to his money problems by finding ways to solve his money problems. Nice that although Philip was uncomfortable with being talked about that way he didn't refuse his help. He basically had Henry telling him he was a failure just like Elizabeth was, only in a nicer way. And both of them were finding other people to help them--that's got to be tough for Philip who's so driven by people needing him. No wonder he was inspired to really try to help Oleg. Still, he didn't put his pride above the practical advantages. The school money storyline remains stupid, though. Oh, there's "a few more" scholarships the top student and future hockey captain can apply for in his senior year while he's getting into Harvard? Great! Do any of those cover his tuition or do they all also require work at the tannery?

It's good to know that Elizabeth's trail of bodies is what led the FBI to this guy and therefore the Illegals. They'd still probably be shocked that that was all one person doing all that damage. But still, there's something satisfying in the way she's walking around acting like she's the only one who cares about the USSR when it's literally her and her sloppy, bloody secret mission that bagged an Illegal. Not just the guy himself but a lot of their tradecraft. I hope it gets laid out to her that she single handedly blew the whole network if that happens.

I honestly thought Marilyn was going to walk out on her too when it was so clear this probably wouldn't work. It seemed like it would be symbolic of everybody just saying look, you're crazy and alone. Marilyn will probably be overjoyed to see Philip (and terrified that the knock on the door means "Julie" has arrived to help...) Marilyn's not a real nurse either, is she? Does this woman have any actual medical personnel helping her in her last moments?

Oh, and another fascinating thing is how they again did that thing with Elizabeth and Philip where they seem to be playing these classic misogynist scripts with the genders reversed. First in the premiere there was Elizabeth's line how she knew Philip "loved to talk" like he was a housewife bothering his husband after a long day at work with silly woman talk. This time it was the toxic stew where she softened Philip up by pretending to feel loving, then pimped him out to Kimmy knowing how long he'd worked to keep that relationship non-sexual and then accused him of being a whore who just wanted to fuck her. (You can tell this was an episode full of tension because they said fuck twice!) Not that that blow landed because Philip knows who he is, but her desperation to believe that he represented selfishness personified was pretty extreme. Especially after her tiny moments of clarity sketching the TV and talking to Henry. In that moment she did want to talk to the normal kid who would try to cheer her up. But again, she can't show weakness by just asking Philip to help her. She has to shame him into doing it and disparage everything about him that isn't that.

God, Paige's jeans were unflattering. I know her butt isn't huge but damn if it didn't look that way in those jeans.

I would have been so uncomfortable during Stan's speech at Thanksgiving. And I'm not a Soviet spy.

33 minutes ago, Sader87 said:

Still not buying the "struggling travel agency" in the sense that it complicates their lives too much. I have to think the Soviets would want Henry to stay at that prep school, lessen family stress overall etc...it just doesn't make sense to me.

I doubt they know anything about it. If Elizabeth knows next to nothing about the kid the KGB knows nothing. They've just lost interest for some reason. Though I guess the theme in this ep was that Philip just felt like he was failing everybody. Elizabeth told him he only cared about himself but he was thinking about how he wasn't able to keep his employees employed, wasn't able to keep Henry in school, wasn't even able to keep the toy car on the road. Ironically spying was the only place where he seemed on balance in the episode--specifically spying for Oleg.

Everyone was essentially telling him that his only worth was as a spy. He was rejected as a boss, father and husband. I wonder if this is another thing Elizabeth winds up feeling she destroyed. Like she got what she wanted without having to ask, and where will that lead? Meanwhile she still apparently hasn't even thought a little bit about how great this secret mission is.

Gee, you know what would be neat? If we maybe had some context for how he got into this job in the first place, given that he mentioned having grown up believing that working and protecting your family was the prime directive and yet somehow wound up completely cut off from them...

Edited May 3, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Erin9]

1 minute ago, hellmouse said:

I think he's going there to help Elizabeth as his wife, to protect his family, but he's not going there because he believes in the mission. I don't think the illegal being captured would help Oleg. It certainly wouldn't help Philip or Elizabeth or their family. 

Exactly. It’s bad for all of them if the illegal gets caught. Or if Elizabeth gets killed/caught  for the lack of help since she is, of course, determined to stay. Philip is done too if that happens- and life as the kids know it is over too.  Plus, he still loves her. He might not like her much now though. 

Philip doesn’t believe in what Harvest or Elizabeth are doing with the Summit. If he picks up anything, he’ll probably pass it along. Unless something drastic changes. When Philip ripped into Elizabeth at the beginning and announced he’d ended the Kimmie op- he left out the big secret: what he is doing with Oleg. 

Speaking of that- it was such an interesting scene where he was laying in the bed- and you knew he’d suddenly made a big decision.....next thing you know he’s searching their storage area, writing to Oleg and choosing his words carefully. It’s driving me nuts not to know what he said/found. 

Also- cracked me up when Elizabeth said Henry’s an adult. He’s in high school. He’s not there yet. 

[jjj]

5 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But it's not as if they, like, found time in their busy schedule to bop over to Chicago. They got an emergency signal from another illegal and had to drop everything to run to his aid. To me it seems like the answer to the question "How could they do this and not screw up their other operations?" is "It probably would screw up their other operations, but they had no choice."

 But they are sent out by an agency, and I assume the agency is very friendly to agents' schedules. 

[Dev F]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Marilyn's not a real nurse either, is she? Does this woman have any actual medical personnel helping her in her last moments?

Nope. Marilyn is a librarian. No wonder Erica's not doing so hot.

[Tetraneutron]

31 minutes ago, Sader87 said:

Still not buying the "struggling travel agency" in the sense that it complicates their lives too much. I have to think the Soviets would want Henry to stay at that prep school, lessen family stress overall etc...it just doesn't make sense to me.

The Russians don't micromanage every aspect of their lives. The point is for them to be real Americans, with jobs and money and SSNs and taxes and friends and acquaintances and all the other stuff. And it doesn't really complicate their lives. We haven't seen it getting in the way of anything. 

I thought it was interesting that in the first season there was a scene where Paige told her mother she knew she smoked and we find out this episode that Henry, who's a lot older now than Paige was, had no idea. The post-phone-call scene showed he's perceptive, so I suppose it was done to underscore how disconnected he is from Elizabeth, how much they aren't in each other's lives. The cancer line? Totally about how fully American he is. Nothing screams late 80s upper-class American teenager than being self-righteous about cigarettes. 

I disagree that Paige doesn't pick up on her parent's tension. We saw last week that she does. 

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Tetraneutron said:

I thought it was interesting that in the first season there was a scene where Paige told her mother she knew she smoked and we find out this episode that Henry, who's a lot older now than Paige was, had no idea.

Henry did know she smoked. In the scene in S3 where Paige tells her she knows she smokes she says Henry knows too. Henry was commenting on how she's obviously smoking a lot more, but he already knew she smoked.

5 minutes ago, Tetraneutron said:

I disagree that Paige doesn't pick up on her parent's tension. We saw last week that she does. 

Yes, that's what I referred to by saying she recognizes when her parents fight--that's what she commented on the other week. But she wasn't picking up on the serious issues that Henry was, was my point. At least it didn't seem like that to me. She said, "If you guys are going to fight I'm leaving" but either she didn't think it was that much of an issue or she just doesn't care about Philip enough to care if they divorce now. She's never said anything to her mother about trouble between them, just accepted Elizabeth's reassurance that Philip still loved her and Paige but something got lost somewhere.

p.s. Love that Elizabeth has maybe even gotten Father Andre caught. Wonder if the FBI will spot a marriage counseling session if Elizabeth actually decides to bring Philip by.

Edited May 3, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Pink-n-Green]

I found something interesting in this episode!  The banter between Elizabeth and the young man in the movie theater made me wonder if the young man is a second generation illegal.  Then, when they are talking outside of the movie theater, there is a poster for the movie "The Big Clock" behind Elizabeth.   "The Big Clock" was remade in 1987 as "No Way Out", a film featuring a deep cover Russian mole.  Coincidence?  I think not!

[Cardie]

When Philip said he would come to Chicago, I could only think that they will go down together. If he can't save Elizabeth and their cover, he'll die with her. In the end, he can't live without her, despite all their disagreements and vituperative back-and-forth this season.

I have just returned to posting in this forum, but has anyone wondered why the Centre didn't just send a good lock-picker to get the tape from Kimmy's house in this one-time urgent situation rather than hatching bizarre Bulgarian kidnap plots.

[Erin9]

I’m trying to decide what I think of Henry. 

When it comes to his goals, he sure is a good planner, calculated, good at playing every possible angle, and self interested in his approach. I’m sure he’ll be fine. But he seems a bit cold when it comes to what he wants- and what he’ll do to get it, like talk about his dad’s business problems. Not that I ever have bought his all consuming need to go to boarding school. (There are so many things I’d like Philip to talk about and spend his limited time on - and financial problems, the travel agency, and boarding school don’t make my list.)

At the same time, he does care and picks up on his parents moods and problems. He is concerned and confused. Being away from home probably allows him to see things a bit clearer now too. He’s actually in a better position than Paige to see it because she’s been there the whole time. 

Now that Henry’s home we’re back to the emergency phone calls. 

The one holiday we see on this show would be thanksgiving.lol Stan’s speech was too much for me. And i’m not a Russian spy. 

As big of a betrayal as this will be for Stan, they didn’t go looking for him. He moved in. It evolved from there. 

[Umbelina]

Quote

* Philip has to lay off Stavos and some other longtime veterans from the travel agency, which prompted me to finally ask Fields and Weisberg to explain what, if any, financial support Philp and Elizabeth receive from the Centre for their civilian identities. This is what they told me:

Quote

We base all of this loosely on how the KGB funded their illegals, although it wasn’t always completely consistent. But in general, our understanding is that illegals got money to get their businesses off the ground, but were then expected to be self-supporting, except for their operations, which were funded by the Centre. So Philip and Elizabeth would have been expected to keep the travel agency afloat, and support themselves through it. But the KGB would have paid for anything spy-related – any operations. None of this would have changed when Philip retired.

Philip and Elizabeth were able to run their travel agency and be spies all these years. They had to do both. It wasn’t easy. They didn’t get enough sleep! Although spying probably didn’t take up as much time as it looked like on the show — we televised the parts where they were busiest. They probably spent more time at the travel agency than they did spying. (For real illegals, this was even more true – the cover work to spying ratio was much more strongly weighted towards cover work.)

We can’t say for sure what would have happened if an illegals’ business were going under. If a one time infusion of cash would have saved it, it seems likely the KGB would have done so. It also seems likely that, human nature being what it is, some officers may have hidden the truth from their bosses back home. In one historical case, an illegal made a fortune from his business, and sent all the excess money back to Moscow.

Since this keeps coming up in every thread since Philip got into financial trouble by remodeling and expanding the Travel Agendy and taking out a loan to do that?  The Answer is in Alan Sepinwall's UPROXX review this week.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, even my American ass would have been rolling my eyes at Stan's speech. I do find it interesting that Philip and Elizabeth seemed to feel so bad about not spending Thanksgiving together, and felt like this in particular was important to their family. Thanksgiving is a pretty classic American holiday, but they still want to take part in it, even Elizabeth "America is stupid" Jennings. 

So it looks like Philip is chasing after Elizabeth. But for what reasons, I dont know yet. He seemed to be almost beginning her to not go, and that makes me think that she is heading into a bad situation, and he knows it. Its such a tough spot, because he so clearly still loves Liz, but he really doesn't want to back the cause anymore, and knows that her specific cause is only going to create more problems. 

On the other hand, I dont know if Oleg and his faction would be thrilled about the discovery of the Illegals anymore than anyone else. That isnt what anyone needs during a time of high diplomacy. If anything, they wouldn't want this found out right now, as it might disrupt the conference and hurt the relationship between the USSR and the US even more. Hell, maybe Philip is going to save the Chicago illegal for that purpose, as well as saving Elizabeth. 

Henry is quite perceptive, even if he is a "typical kid" and not super into politics and social causes and greater purpose the way Paige was. Paige might be interested in this stuff, but she has never seemed like a super sharp person. I mean, she keeps falling for anything that her mom tells her, no matter how obvious it is that Liz has been drinking the kool aid for a long time, and isnt giving her the full story of anything. 

I am laughing over the fact that it turns out that the Jennings constant murder spree is finally catching up with them. The FBI can actually investigate, who knew? I cant wait for all the pieces to come together for Stan when he realizes who his BFFs are. His face is going to be the stuff of legends. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by tennisgurl

[LMM]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

I have just returned to posting in this forum, but has anyone wondered why the Centre didn't just send a good lock-picker to get the tape from Kimmy's house in this one-time urgent situation rather than hatching bizarre Bulgarian kidnap plots.

The plan was to plant drugs on Kimmy, have her arrested, and then go to her father directly with Kimmy’s predicament. He would have to answer questions about what’s being said by the Soviet negotiator to the CIA or let Kimmy rot in a Bulgarian prison for 20 years. Elizabeth needed more specific info, and to get that specific info faster, than just listening to whatever happened to be recorded on the briefcase tape.

Edited May 3, 2018 by LMM
Clarity

[Bannon]

I thought the opening scene was a well written example of an out of synch couple at their wit's end over their relationship. I thought the Thanksgiving toast scene was horribly written, and once again I was reminded that Laurie Holden was hired for either no discernable reason, or to provide, in a really stupid way, a very late, very large, plot development.

The slaughter streak finally ended. Looks like it starts anew next week, though.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, LMM said:

Elizabeth needed more specific info, and to get that specific info faster, than just listening to whatever happened to be recorded on the briefcase tape.

And yet, it seemed to me, that they thought they would be fine if only Kimmy came home for Thanksgiving and Philip could retrieve the tape.

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, Cardie said:

And yet, it seemed to me, that they thought they would be fine if only Kimmy came home for Thanksgiving and Philip could retrieve the tape.

It's kind of useless to try to make any sense of the Kimmy operation, because the whole thing has just been a sloppily constructed story arc from the very beginning. 

[jjj]

It is very, very odd that Elizabeth is telling Claudia ON THANKSGIVING DAY that Philip is not going to do the Thanksgiving trip to Bulgaria with Kimmie.  Why wouldn't she have told Claudia  when Philip told her?  They are on a very tight timeline; Claudia needed to know immediately, not on the actual day Philip was supposed to be in Greece/Bulgaria. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by jjj

[Lily H]

Elizabeth has never elicited much in the way of warm feelings, but I've never hated her the way I do now. Philip should never have admitted what he did to save Kimmie. If I had my way for the ending, Philip, Henry and Oleg would be OK, but Elizabeth, Claudia and Paige would die in a hail of bullets.

I am more convinced than ever that Renee-as-Soviet-agent was just a big red herring and she is just who she appears to be -- except that she will end up being the one who somehow leads to the takedown of P & E, either by a chance remark about their resemblance to those disguised pictures at the FBI when she's there with Stan, or some other little thing that she notices and mentions to Stan.

[Umbelina]

I think it's going to be really bad that Philip sent Oleg that note before Henry gave him a head's up that Elizabeth was 'so unhappy' which is what made Philip realize she's really in trouble on this op.

[RedHawk]

6 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

I found something interesting in this episode!  The banter between Elizabeth and the young man in the movie theater made me wonder if the young man is a second generation illegal.  Then, when they are talking outside of the movie theater, there is a poster for the movie "The Big Clock" behind Elizabeth.   "The Big Clock" was remade in 1987 as "No Way Out", a film featuring a deep cover Russian mole.  Coincidence?  I think not!

Neat catch! 

I thought the young man seemed a bit wary of Elizabeth, not intrigued or attracted, although quite happy with her offer to connect him with a possible job opportunity. So he interns for Sam Nunn. Who is his father? Sounded like a wealthy business owner. 

[RedHawk]

7 hours ago, jjj said:

Did anyone else expect Philip to say "Chicago " at the dinner and the watch the alarm bells go off?

THAT would have been interesting!

Phillip explaining why Elizabeth wasn’t attending Thanksgiving dinner was the worst, most obvious, over-long and overly detailed lie he’s ever told Stan. I expected Stan to pull him aside later and say, “So buddy, are you and Elizabeth having trouble again? Is she really just sulking in your house?”

Edited May 3, 2018 by RedHawk

[Chaos Theory]

Henry seems to have an emotional maturity that the rest of the family lacks.  It is natural to want to compare him to Paige but most of his scenes were with Philip and you could see how Henry could recognize his own emotions while Philip could sometimes not even get them out properly.  My guess is that emotional maturity is not conducive to the spy trade and neither P&E are especially emotionally mature and if Elizabeth is training Paige I doubt her emotional well-being is one of her major concerns.  

While Henry on the other hand  virtually raised himself so he knows exactly who he is and what he wants and because he hadn’t been around can see the empty dark spaces that everyone else is missing.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

One thing clear in this ep is that Henry, unlike Paige, is basically independent. If his parents gets caught tomorrow he doesn't need any substitute parent, really...

...The school money storyline remains stupid, though. Oh, there's "a few more" scholarships the top student and future hockey captain can apply for in his senior year while he's getting into Harvard? Great! Do any of those cover his tuition or do they all also require work at the tannery?

...Marilyn's not a real nurse either, is she? Does this woman have any actual medical personnel helping her in her last moments?

...God, Paige's jeans were unflattering. 

...I would have been so uncomfortable during Stan's speech at Thanksgiving.

...Though I guess the theme in this ep was that Philip just felt like he was failing everybody. Elizabeth told him he only cared about himself but he was thinking about how he wasn't able to keep his employees employed, wasn't able to keep Henry in school, wasn't even able to keep the toy car on the road. Ironically spying was the only place where he seemed on balance in the episode--specifically spying for Oleg.

 

Some random responses to the above post:

I was impressed with Henry's resourcefulness. Rather than sulk or whine, he is trying to find ways to stay at St Eds. Is it feasible? Possibly but who cares. I think the point is exactly as @sistermagpie says...if the time comes, he is close to being independent of his parents. Not entirely but he is not a clinging vine.

The tuition story line is dumb but it is a reflection of Philip's character arc. Over-analyzing it is frustrating.

Poor Erica - one nurse draws, the other rubs her feet. Neither are trained professionals.

Paige's jeans - that was my first thought, too. What a horror! And I'm sure that I had a similar pair back in the day.

Stan's speech: THAT was bad writing. It seemed like he was never going to stop talking. It wasn't particularly eloquent. It sounded like he was giving a speech to a incoming class of agents. And then to close it with, "let's eat" while Renee looked at him adoringly. Ack! I like Noah Emmerich but he couldn't pull that off.

That is an excellent analysis above of Philip this season, right down to his inability to keep the car on the tracks. His worth - in his eyes - is as a spy. I don't believe that his journey to Chicago is for the cause or the agent. It is for Elizabeth and for his family.

When all is said and done with this show, the character of Philip Jennings will rank among the best anti-heroes in current day TV (along with Walter White and Tony Soprano). And can MR please win an Emmy?! His entire physical presence when he was telling Elizabeth that he wouldn't go thru with the Kimmie mission was mesmerizing.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[RedHawk]

9 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Stan's speech: THAT was bad writing. It seemed like he was never going to stop talking. It wasn't particularly eloquent. It sounded like he was giving a speech to a incoming class of agents. And then to close it with, "let's eat" while Renee looked at him adoringly. Ack! I like Noah Emmerich but he couldn't pull that off.

We got closeups of TWO adoring looks from Renee. Plus, Aderholt put in a good word for her at the FBI. This better be going somewhere... 

Like, when Renee finds out that Stan’s best friend Phillip was a KGB spy all along, and he’s been fired for being oblivious, she’ll say, “Great, now I’ll never get a job there! Thanks for blowing it for me, Stan.” After they get a quick divorce, she moves back to East Germany and resumes working for the Stasi. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by RedHawk

[Ellaria]

51 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

We got closeups of TWO adoring looks from Renee. Plus, Aderholt put in a good word for her at the FBI. This better be going somewhere... 

 

I don't think this is going anywhere. I think that we are being trolled by the show runners.

There are about 4 hours left of this show. If time is spent with Renee making secret phone calls to her colleagues with the KGB, Mossad, Stasi, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I will throw pillows at the TV.  Instead, Renee with her super powers of observation will notice that the long-forgotten sketches look like their neighbors.

Either way, it is a fail, IMO.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[SunnyBeBe]

I was uncomfortable with the details P and the kids gave about E leaving town due to work emergency.  Why say she went to Texas? Why even say where the destination was, because if anyone  checked down the road, due to suspicion and it was a lie, it would raise red flags. If caught in the lie, I suppose E would have to claim to be having an affair, so she lied about her destination.   It just adds to the risks, imo.  Plus, all those details by P. Way TMI.  He's gotten rusty.  lol

Don't most families say a prayer before the Thanksgiving meal? Hmmm...

Ok. Renee will be very important in some way.  They seem to be making that abundantly clear. She just needs to get into that FBI office to save the day. 

P is making me nervous. E is infuriating me. Paige is annoying me, but, I was rather pleased to see Henry.  He was much more mature than he normally appears in those odd phone calls with his dad.  Once again, I got the feeling that the show is setting up Henry, so that he will be okay. Last season, when they approached the idea of boarding school, I was relieved, because it gets him out of the house and frees up the main characters to spy more and not have to sneak so much.  And now, they are setting him up to live and work at the friend's family tannery for the summer, then returning for his senior year to the boarding school.  So, we have a picture of a guy who'll be okay.  So, I see this as his parents not being around to ensure this. Sad, but, he'll be okay. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I don't think this is going anywhere. I think that we are being trolled by the show runners.

There are about 4 hours left of this show. If time is spent with Renee making secret phone calls to her colleagues with the KGB, Mossad, Stasi, or Teenage Mutant Turtles, I will throw pillows at the TV.  Instead, Renee with her super powers of observation will notice that the long-forgotten sketches look like their neighbors.

Either way, it is a fail, IMO.

Just inexplicably HORRIBLE decision making by the producers/showrunners. And it doesn't make any sense in terms of the income statement! I am completely baffled as to how it happened.

[SunnyBeBe]

7 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

I found something interesting in this episode!  The banter between Elizabeth and the young man in the movie theater made me wonder if the young man is a second generation illegal.  Then, when they are talking outside of the movie theater, there is a poster for the movie "The Big Clock" behind Elizabeth.   "The Big Clock" was remade in 1987 as "No Way Out", a film featuring a deep cover Russian mole.  Coincidence?  I think not!

Amusing. If it has significance, I wonder how. Yes, I did notice the tension with this young man, but, he seemed distracted, uncomfortable, suspicious even......but, would E be so out of the loop with Russian intel on their own people that she would be clueless about this guy, assuming he is an illegal? I mean, it would be bizarre if Renee and this young man are both illegals, that E has no knowledge of....lol.  I put nothing past these writers at this point. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[GingerMarie]

I have not read any comments yet.  Just finished the episode.  That was GREAT.  From start to finish.  Henry, where have you been?  He nailed it.  Paige, well the less she speaks the better.  But she did have a great 'worry face'.  Stan OH Stan, this is the most emotion I have seen from you in awhile.  Renee, you are up to something.  You smirked when Stan was giving his speech.  Dennis, I have always liked you.  Oleg, you are so HOT.  Elizabeth, you know it is nearing the end.  You know you need Philip.  Not Paige, not Henry but Philip.  Philip, you need Elizabeth and despite your efforts to run from The Cause, you will continue to do anything within your power to save Elizabeth.  This shall be your downfall.  But you are OK with that.  PEACE

[Bannon]

41 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

 

That is an excellent analysis above of Philip this season, right down to his inability to keep the car on the tracks. His worth - in his eyes - is as a spy. I don't believe that his journey to Chicago is for the cause or the agent. It is for Elizabeth and for his family.

When all is said and done with this show, the character of Philip Jennings will rank among the best anti-heroes in current day TV (along with Walter White and Tony Soprano). And can MR please win an Emmy?! His entire physical presence when he was telling Elizabeth that he wouldn't go thru with the Kimmie mission was mesmerizing.

Rhys really has been great, and it goes way back to the best arc this show ever had, the story of Martha's life being destroyed, which also included the best written murder, of the way too many murders this show has done, Gene's strangulation. Because the writers took the time to meticulously build and reveal Martha's character, via the superb Allison Wright, Rhys really had something substantial to play off of, and could give a great, great, portrayal of how a person may not be attracted to another person, may even be consciously devoted to harming them, yet still develop regard, affection, perhaps even love for that person. It takes real acting to do that, and Rhys pulled it off.

Because the writing was meticulous, and the actors superb, when Gene is murdered, Phil's reaction to being compelled to murder Gene, and Martha's utter horror, in learning how her pursuit of what she thought as her great chance at love has led to that murder of someone she knew and respected, could have real impact.

It's such a shame the other arcs were not similarly meticulously constructed. The show never really recovered from Martha's reluctant defection.

[SunnyBeBe]

5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Ha.  You beat me to it.  I have to post quickly and often, because for whatever reason I keep getting knocked off the boards in the early morning.  I have lost some really long posts, not about to got through that again.

Stan is going to find a way to blow this thing.  I wouldn't be shocked if he tried to help out Philip.    Try and protect him in some way.

I'm not sure how he would respond to P, but, I also can't envision him arresting him either, because, it really makes Stan look like an idiot at best and at worst, a co-conspirator. What sharp FBI agent has a long time best friend/confidant/neighbor, who is a Russian illegal?  I would think Stan would come under immediate scrutiny, not hero worship. 

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm not sure how he would respond to P, but, I also can't envision him arresting him either, because, it really makes Stan look like an idiot at best and at worst, a co-conspirator. What sharp FBI agent has a long time best friend/confidant/neighbor, who is a Russian illegal?  I would think Stan would come under immediate scrutiny, not hero worship. 

If they don't have Stan go into a towering rage at the knowledge of who knifed his original partner to death, that will be an EXTREME writing failure.

[benteen]

Great episode.  I'm glad to see the show regaining its form in the past two weeks.

The cold opening and the last 12 minutes were particularly great. 

Henry in one episode once again shows why he's about a thousand times more intelligent and clever than Paige and it makes Philip and Elizabeth look bad every time for not noticing he'd be so good as a spy.  Definitely a really good episode for him.  More Henry and less Paige definitely helped this episode.

Elizabeth is a TERRIBLE mother.  Her relationship with Henry further confirmed this.  I did like that we saw some human moments from her tonight.  Her doubts about the success of the mission, her phone call with Henry.  Of course, fanatic that she is, she won't call off the mission.  Even if there wasn't some self-motivation here with a threat to their identity, I have no doubt that Elizabeth would still choose the mission.  Philip is definitely doing this for her.

Elizabeth is definitely hitting rock bottom if she's stealing leads from Paige.

Glad to see the FBI FINALLY putting two and two together with all these deaths and the illegals investigation in general.

LOL with the mail robot cameo in the elevator with Stan and Aderholt. 

Was that the first F bomb dropped on The Americans tonight?

Edited May 3, 2018 by benteen

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

The Americans Celebrate An All-American Thanksgiving

When the feds close in on a cell in the Midwest, Elizabeth must make a pilgrimage to Chicago and risk arousing suspicion in both Stan and Henry. YES, EVEN HENRY.

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Henry might be fine on his own, but Paige is the type to join a cult.  I don't have much faith that she can do much more than tie her own shoes.

Yeah, Paige could end up in purple shroud, wearing white tennis shoes, guzzling the kool aid, as the comet Hale-Bopp approaches.

[SunnyBeBe]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Henry might be fine on his own, but Paige is the type to join a cult.  I don't have much faith that she can do much more than tie her own shoes.

But, she has Granny....(Claudia).  Oh, no.....I suppose she will be lost too.  If P and E go down by death, arrest or escape to Russia, Claudia will have to disappear too. She won't be able to hang around for Paige.  I wonder why E asked her to do that? 

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I am surprised that the "film guy" didn't some how conclude that he was being followed.  He should have thought it was pretty strange to run into her on the subway after seeing her not that long ago at the movie theater.  It seems like the writers make every "American" stoopid (stupid)  beyond belief.

Someone working in Sam Nunn's office in 1987, even an intern, certainly would have been briefed about supposed chance, repeated encounters with strangers, who express an interest in the person's life. It'd be nice to see that trigger something.

[SunnyBeBe]

I wonder if Stan and Adderhalt discussed anything of significance in the elevator after the robot entered.  They stood there and then the scene changed. When they return they are in the room, so, ............hmm....

[Bannon]

On the other hand, if they have Liz honeypotting the intern, Paige finding out, and having a huge negative reaction to it, that's a scene that will force a house shaking eyeroll from me.

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder if Stan and Adderhalt discussed anything of significance in the elevator after the robot entered.  They stood there and then the scene changed. When they return they are in the room, so, ............hmm....

God, I hope we don't have another plot development stemming from an FBI too dumb to do periodic sweeps for listening devices.

[Dev F]

5 hours ago, jjj said:

It is very, very odd that Elizabeth is telling Claudia ON THANKSGIVING DAY that Philip is not going to do the Thanksgiving trip to Bulgaria with Kimmie.  Why wouldn't she have told Claudia  when Philip told her?  They are on a very tight timeline; Claudia needed to know immediately, not on the actual day Philip was supposed to be in Greece/Bulgaria. 

But Philip made it clear that he burnt her as a source. Anyone they send after her now runs the risk of walking into a trap. That's why she started working Senator Nunn's intern -- because she knows she needs another way to find out what's going on with Nesterenko and the supposed CIA mole.

 

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Stan's speech: THAT was bad writing. It seemed like he was never going to stop talking. It wasn't particularly eloquent. It sounded like he was giving a speech to a incoming class of agents. And then to close it with, "let's eat" while Renee looked at him adoringly. Ack! I like Noah Emmerich but he couldn't pull that off.

Yeah, I'll defend most of the show's writing as more sophisticated than people give it credit for, but that speech did feel pretty clunky. I get where it was coming from -- Stan was heartbroken by the deaths of Gennadi and Sofia, then heartened by the fact that Counterintel might be on the verge of bringing down the people who killed them. But the sentiments Stan expressed felt too broad. I mean, he spent all of Reagan's first term working in his DOJ, and they were constantly fucking up and screwing him over. So why would he suddenly be all "Yay, Reagan!" because Dennis and his team were finally able to get something done after six years of fuckuppery? Wouldn't he be more apt to be thankful for the patriotic Americans who keep fighting to defend freedom even when everyone else has let down their guard, or something like that?

[misstwpherecool]

I think I missed something. An illegal flipped in Chicago. Elizabeth told to 'rescue' that guy-Claudia wants to shut him up?

Also E working the intern in blonde hair. Would she eventually remind him of Paige?

The illegals paid for stuff in cash-helloooo

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought Claudia said to GET HIM OUT of there. Hmm....but, maybe that was code word for kill him.  I'm confused. 

[teddysmom]

8 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

"The Big Clock" was remade in 1987 as "No Way Out", a film featuring a deep cover Russian mole.  Coincidence?  I think not!

Nice catch!!!  No Way Out is pretty good. that ending was crazy. 

I think the actress who played Sofia was on the next to last episode of Homeland. I thought I recognized her. She played a Russian translator for  the US embassy.  And Oleg was a main character as well.  Homeland is over so they can't cast anymore The Americans supporting actors. 

I think Phillip is going to Chicago to stop Elizabeth, and to save her.  She is off the rails and he knows it. Maybe his message to Oleg was to warn him of what's going on.  

Matthew Rhys better get an Emmy nomination. He is just fantastic this season.   

Does Elizabeth really think that kid is going to be into her that much?  She's over playing that by a lot. 

[jjj]

20 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But Philip made it clear that he burnt her as a source. Anyone they send after her now runs the risk of walking into a trap. That's why she started working Senator Nunn's intern -- because she knows she needs another way to find out what's going on with Nesterenko and the supposed CIA mole.

I did not mean that Claudia would develop another Kimmie plan, but that (A) Claudia needed to know BEFORE the day of the actual caper (I mean, they were setting up a drug plant and abduction) and (B) whatever plans B and C were needed to be put in place to get the information they needed.  It was ridiculous to wait to tell all this to Claudia.  

12 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

I think I missed something. An illegal flipped in Chicago. Elizabeth told to 'rescue' that guy-Claudia wants to shut him up?

No, the illegal did NOT flip, but was under surveillance.  An engineer at the device company gave up all the information about the illegal.  And this illegal must not have the P/E skills with wigs if the company engineer knew the whole cover story.  

[MisterBluxom]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, even my American ass would have been rolling my eyes at Stan's speech. I do find it interesting that Philip and Elizabeth seemed to feel so bad about not spending Thanksgiving together, and felt like this in particular was important to their family. Thanksgiving is a pretty classic American holiday, but they still want to take part in it, even Elizabeth "America is stupid" Jennings. 

So it looks like Philip is chasing after Elizabeth. But for what reasons, I dont know yet. He seemed to be almost beginning her to not go, and that makes me think that she is heading into a bad situation, and he knows it. Its such a tough spot, because he so clearly still loves Liz, but he really doesn't want to back the cause anymore, and knows that her specific cause is only going to create more problems. 

On the other hand, I dont know if Oleg and his faction would be thrilled about the discovery of the Illegals anymore than anyone else. That isnt what anyone needs during a time of high diplomacy. If anything, they wouldn't want this found out right now, as it might disrupt the conference and hurt the relationship between the USSR and the US even more. Hell, maybe Philip is going to save the Chicago illegal for that purpose, as well as saving Elizabeth. 

Henry is quite perceptive, even if he is a "typical kid" and not super into politics and social causes and greater purpose the way Paige was. Paige might be interested in this stuff, but she has never seemed like a super sharp person. I mean, she keeps falling for anything that her mom tells her, no matter how obvious it is that Liz has been drinking the kool aid for a long time, and isnt giving her the full story of anything. 

I am laughing over the fact that it turns out that the Jennings constant murder spree is finally catching up with them. The FBI can actually investigate, who knew? I cant wait for all the pieces to come together for Stan when he realizes who his BFFs are. His face is going to be the stuff of legends. 

Do you think P&E really appreciate Thanksgiving and find it as meaningful as many other Americans?

I'm just guessing. But I would guess if asked in private, their response might be something like, "Those filthy borgeoise Americans celebrate their stealing the land from the native people. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm only half kidding. But I can't imagine that communist spies would find any joy in celebrating Thanksgiving. I wonder if Russian people have some kind of similar holiday.

[MisterBluxom]

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

I thought the opening scene was a well written example of an out of synch couple at their wit's end over their relationship. I thought the Thanksgiving toast scene was horribly written, and once again I was reminded that Laurie Holden was hired for either no discernable reason, or to provide, in a really stupid way, a very late, very large, plot development.

The slaughter streak finally ended. Looks like it starts anew next week, though.

I can't remember who it was that predicted there would be similarities between what really happened in the USA when they discovered that large cluster of Russian spies. But I thought it was extremely clever for them to see that would be coming.

I'll be very glad when this show gets back to the conflicts that P&E are trying to solve in the remaining shows. There is just not enough time left and I hope they don't fail to show us a meaningful end to this saga. I'm really disappointed with the way we haven't seen or heard anything from Henry for so long and now he is apparantly all grown up and ready to help out his "poor old Dad" with his financial trouble. Does that make much sense to you? It sure don't make much sense to me.

[Chaos Theory]

Stan’s speech was a little much but it served to purposes.  It was a functional American paranoid view of a coming peace talk served unknowningly to Russian spies and it served as a believable reasoning  to getting Stan back into the game.   He was always a reasonable voice but now he may be just as much a true believer as Elizabeth is.

[Dev F]

7 minutes ago, jjj said:

I did not mean that Claudia would develop another Kimmie plan, but that (A) Claudia needed to know BEFORE the day of the actual caper (I mean, they were setting up a drug plant and abduction) and (B) whatever plans B and C were needed to be put in place to get the information they needed.  It was ridiculous to wait to tell all this to Claudia. 

Oh, I figured that P&E themselves would've been responsible for arranging the details. We saw last season, for instance, that when they needed the Rezidentura to reach out to Evgheniya, they used a dead drop rather than going through Claudia.

Quote

No, the illegal did NOT flip, but was under surveillance.  An engineer at the device company gave up all the information about the illegal.  And this illegal must not have the P/E skills with wigs if the company engineer knew the whole cover story.  

The engineer only knew the illegal's cover identity, but he set up another meeting at the FBI's behest and they followed him to one of his garages, where they presumably caught him changing identities.

[Ellaria]

On 5/3/2018 at 8:50 AM, Bannon said:

On the other hand, if they have Liz honeypotting the intern, Paige finding out, and having a huge negative reaction to it, that's a scene that will force a house shaking eyeroll from me.

On 5/3/2018 at 9:16 AM, teddysmom said:

Does Elizabeth really think that kid is going to be into her that much?  She's over playing that by a lot. 

Hopefully, the Sam Nunn Intern has better intuition than most of the marks on this show and questions why an overly-friendly middle aged blonde keeps showing up in convenient places. Sigh...

Maybe they should have Paige get in touch with him.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[teddysmom]

4 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Hopefully, the Sam Nunn Intern has a better intuition that most of the marks on this show and questions why an overly-friendly middle aged blonde keeps showing up in convenient places. Sigh...

I've struck up brief conversations with  people at movies, or just with strangers in general, standing in line wherever. I would never presume to invade private space in a movie theater and sit next to a young man 20 years younger than me when the theater is barely half full.   Of course, I go to movies at 9:30 in the morning so I can have the theater to myself. 

And then when she shows up on the subway I'm thinking "take it down a notch, E".  Even tho she used a different tack and said she works for a company that does consulting for Nunn, does she not think this kid is smart enough to check with Nunn's office? 

[SunnyBeBe]

I wasn't sure what E's scheme was with the intern. Was she feeling him out to see what might be his biggest vulnerability?  I didn't get that she was trying to flirt. She's attractive for her age, but, that's kind of a stretch, no?