S01.E04: The Face of Oblivion

[CooperTV]

Quote

Desperate to rescue his son, Oliver, from a potentially lethal situation, Jude reaches out to Emma with a request that could endanger the lives of everyone at the camp. Meanwhile, Hannah’s secret past comes to light, Sophie discovers something unexpected in Leah’s blood work and Paul discloses a shocking piece of information about the earlier migration.

Promos

[ursula]

That the woman in the picture was "Eve" didn't surprise me. But the HSI leader getting shot (she's dead, right?) did. What irony that running that check online might have saved her life.

I never really expected Reese to hurt Oliver but I was unexpectedly moved that she took pains to make sure he didn't realize what was going on. 

Hated Caleb needing to tap into his inner #ScaryBlackMan to defend the poor innocent collaborator. Hey, I'm all for Tabula Rasa but I feel the same effect could have achieved less offensively.

Still feel that Hannah is Whathisname's descendant.

Exactly how long ago have the First Arrivals been here? 

[ursula]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I have a horrible time keeping up with all of the character's names

There are a lot of characters, aren't they? So far, I know Reese (from Kyle Reese/Terminator), the Sheriff's name comes and goes (right now I don't remember it and anyway Sheriff's as good a name as anything), but his son's name Oliver sticks (because of the Dickens novel and HTGAWM).  Emma's name finally "stuck" in my head now that she's probably dead. LOL.

The Survivors's names are somewhat easier because they're all Jewish and that for some reason makes them distinctive. For example, I can't confuse Hannah with Anna for some reason. 

 

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I am just glad that someone had Hanna's back.

Right now, too many people have Hanna(h?)'s back if you ask me. She already has Roy, the HSI hottie, gifting her with Raybans and sneaking her back into camp. Then she has her Probable-Ancestor-Locket hottie on the outside, gifting her with cellphones via droid courier and showing her around Harbor-chella. She can do without Caleb being her personal body-guard.

 

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

You mean the dude that tried to fly a cell phone into the camp?  He really didn't seem to know her when he met her in last week's episode. 

Well, he won't, would he? LOL. Since she hasn't been born yet. She's carrying - carried - a locket with his face so my mind immediately went to distant ancestor. 

 

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

And what were the odds that Caleb would find it instead of someone else?

At least it wasn't Rapey Dude. Hey, we should give that dude a name. What's the name of that son of King David that raped his sister? Amnon right. Yes, let's keep calling him that until hopefully, Roy breaks his neck.
 

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

The red headed woman (Eve?) was one of Gibbs' wives on NCIS.

There's a chance she might not be Eve though. I mean, I just assumed she was Eve, but I thought about it and she could just be another random.

For some reason, I feel that Eve is someone who is really high up in power. I mean HIGH up, like POTUS high up. Like the minute we find out who she is, it's going to be pretty jaw-dropping. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by ursula

[Dowel Jones]

I'm pretty sure that Paul's ex is the same as the woman in the dark last episode, saying that the Crossovers must never leave the camp.  Is that Eve?

14 hours ago, ursula said:

Still feel that Hannah is Whathisname's descendant.

That's Marshall, the resident trailer guy and sometime jailbird.  I wish they had picked a different name for him, as it's a little distracting when the LE guys are saying "Get out of here, Marshall."

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That cell phone fell from a long way up, surprised it still worked.

Sometimes it's just location, location, location.  A skydiving friend of mine lost her GoPro off the helmet at 8,000'.  It hit some soft dirt and came through just fine.

I didn't get a good look at the photo, but wasn't the head HSI guy/early arrival in the photo with the woman?  Sometimes I think TV cops should spend more time watching TV cop shows.  That should have rang her alarm bell right away but she just stood there staring at it until she got shot.

I get the feeling that every single Crossover has some kind of backstory, and we will get to see it over the course of the season.  Sound familiar?

I did find it a bit funny that the hawk took out the drone.  Hope he didn't get torn up by the rotors.  Next time fly close to the ground.

Oliver was strangely non-reactive to the fact that Reese walked over to the two fishermen and came back with both poles, especially after being mocked by them.  Did he not see anything?

[Free]

8 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

I get the feeling that every single Crossover has some kind of backstory, and we will get to see it over the course of the season.  Sound familiar?

The Crossing feels like Lost if they skipped from the plane crash to the latter seasons where there's a lot of character to keep track of without any of the character development or scenes of them actually getting to know each other.

[Haleth]

After the first episode I wrote that I wanted the show to surprise me. Well, if Emma is killed off I will be surprised. 

[ursula]

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

That's Marshall, the resident trailer guy and sometime jailbird.  I wish they had picked a different name for him, as it's a little distracting when the LE guys are saying "Get out of here, Marshall."

If I hadn't noticed the Naming convention of the Crossers (Travellers? Refugees?), I might have thought his name was Matthew. 

 

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

That should have rang her alarm bell right away but she just stood there staring at it until she got shot.

But it did ring her alarm, didn't it? She was shocked at it, and I got the impression that that's what prompted the Redhead to shoot her. The "my husband was in a cult" story couldn't fly anymore.

[thuganomics85]

If Emma really is dead, then I'm starting to think Sandrine Holt has commitment issues, because I don't think I've ever seen her last past one season on a show!

Tough crowd, Oliver!  Sure, Reece might be a somewhat unstable ultra-human from the future, who isn't past kidnapping kids or snapping a guy's neck to get what she wants, but not being able to fish shouldn't automatically disqualify her from being girlfriend material!  In all seriousness, if they do hook Jude up with someone, it's probably going to be Dr. Sophie.

Who knew hawks really hate drones?

Caleb now knows about Hannah being an Apex collaborator, but decides to actually back her against creepy guy.  A nice gesture, but I suspect creepy guy will be a problem still.  Should have finished the job, Caleb!  Or just let Hannah do it.

This show is certainly serving well as a tourism guide to Canada!

[Driad]

Hawks are not the only ones who hate drones.

[Raja]

Given that Homeland Security brigade surrounding them and low tech drones already being used in combat in Syria I was expecting it to be shot down 

[bilgistic]

I'm losing interest. While I was watching, I looked at my TiVo's guide to see what number episode this was and was depressed to see it's only the fourth. It feels like it's been six or eight episodes. Just a slog. There's just not enough happening to move the story forward. Watching the sheriff chase around an Apex for an entire episode is not entertaining nor does it propel the story forward.

And the refugees are still just hanging out at the camp. There's been zero development in establishing if they have relatives, maybe slowly integrating them into the local community, just something...anything.

[ursula]

I don't think it's been that bad.  Most of the A story has been about Reese getting to/finding Leah, which is more than enough story already (if you ask me). I don't expect or even want all the answers to be answered right away. I'm OK with waiting out the story, and just following the different streams ---- as long as the writers do have answers. What will turn me off is if/when it becomes clear that they're making it up as they go along.

[Accidental Martyr]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:07 PM, ursula said:

 

But it did ring her alarm, didn't it? She was shocked at it, and I got the impression that that's what prompted the Redhead to shoot her. The "my husband was in a cult" story couldn't fly anymore.

That story wasn’t going to fly anyway was it? If he was really who she claimed then there would obviously be records of him, info about his true identity, etc. Seems like it would take literally a few minutes to verify after his wife gave her his real name, info about his former job, etc.

It really seemed like Emma and the other HS guy recognized the woman in the drawing but then.....no.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Accidental Martyr

[peachmangosteen]

8 hours ago, Accidental Martyr said:

It really seemed like Emma and the other HS guy recognized the woman in the drawing but then.....no.

Yea, that was weird. They definitely acted it like they recognized her. 

I still really like this show. I find most of the characters likable and I'm interested in seeing where it all goes. 

Does anyone know what the ratings are like?

[Accidental Martyr]

In case anyone was wondering, the song that was playing in the bar scene with Marshall and the blonde woman was “Blood and Roses” by The Smithereens (from 1986). They were one of my favorite bands back in the day and still one of the best live bands I’ve ever seen. Singer/guitarist Pat DiNizio passed away in December.

[Free]

23 hours ago, ursula said:

Most of the A story has been about Reese getting to/finding Leah, which is more than enough story already (if you ask me)

It just slows the pacing down considerably because we all know it's going to happen and yet it's being dragged out.

[ursula]

2 hours ago, Free said:

It just slows the pacing down considerably because we all know it's going to happen and yet it's being dragged out.

This attitude has always puzzled. There are many stories with foregone conclusions - from superhero movies to romantic comedies to fantasy stories of good vs evil - we all pretty know going in, what's going to happen. The "the getting there", what you are describing as "dragging out" is the entertainment. I mean, isn't that the whole point of actually watching/reading/experiencing a story instead of just reading the plot summary off Wikipedia? Give me one quality, "dragged out" story for a season, instead of 10 one-and-done and ultimately insubstantial plots per episode.

[Free]

24 minutes ago, ursula said:

This attitude has always puzzled. There are many stories with foregone conclusions - from superhero movies to romantic comedies to fantasy stories of good vs evil - we all pretty know going in, what's going to happen. The "the getting there", what you are describing as "dragging out" is the entertainment. I mean, isn't that the whole point of actually watching/reading/experiencing a story instead of just reading the plot summary off Wikipedia? Give me one quality, "dragged out" story for a season, instead of 10 one-and-done and ultimately insubstantial plots per episode.

If it were an interesting storyline or one where the characters are actually learning something important instead of the constant cat and mouse chases, then it would be perfectly fine.

It also doesn't help that most of the characters are bland and feel very interchangeable, maybe it would feel much more entertaining with better, more fleshed out characters

Edited April 27, 2018 by Free

[jhlipton]

On 4/24/2018 at 10:51 AM, Dowel Jones said:

Oliver was strangely non-reactive to the fact that Reese walked over to the two fishermen and came back with both poles, especially after being mocked by them.  Did he not see anything?

In the future, a small amount of mocking is grounds for assault, battery and theft. Of course Caleb believes Hannah's sob story right off. I'd like it she really was a voluntary collabotator but this show is not that subtle.  It has Good Guys: Hannah, Caleb, Sheriff T Lawman (I thing that's his name) and Bad Guys: Emma's boss, and Emma's Boss's Wife a very few Grey Guys: Matthew and Jude are obviously GooGuys With Flaws, and murdering, violent without reason, kidnapping Reese is as well.

Cars haven't changed in the future -- she knew from the get-go how to hot-wire one.

On 4/25/2018 at 3:50 PM, bilgistic said:

And the refugees are still just hanging out at the camp. There's been zero development in establishing if they have relatives, maybe slowly integrating them into the local community, just something...anything.

Do any of them, other than Caleb and his "girlfriend", who was missing this episode related to each other? How many lost friends, family or lovers in the ocean?  How do they feel being sundered from everything and everyone they've ever known.  Who cares.  We have Rapey Guy, Hannah and Caled.  We don't need anyone else.

These characters are so bland and so stereotyped.  Yawn.

[peachmangosteen]

Who is Caleb?

[Raja]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Who is Caleb?

The big black guy who seemed like another veteran human soldier who is sort of the leader of those who made the Crossing. he is reminding me of Shepherd Book of Firefly.

[Free]

9 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Do any of them, other than Caleb and his "girlfriend", who was missing this episode related to each other? How many lost friends, family or lovers in the ocean?  How do they feel being sundered from everything and everyone they've ever known.  Who cares.  We have Rapey Guy, Hannah and Caled.  We don't need anyone else.

These characters are so bland and so stereotyped.  Yawn.

Other than Reece and her daughter, I guess.

They were mostly spitting out exposition at the start of the series before fading into the background.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I'm surprised Emma wasn't wearing a Kevlar vest. If she suspected that woman was one of the First Arrivals she would know they are dangerous because they need to protect their secret at all costs.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I'm surprised Emma wasn't wearing a Kevlar vest. If she suspected that woman was one of the First Arrivals she would know they are dangerous because they need to protect their secret at all costs.

Up until she saw her boss in that picture (and got shot), Emma was buying the woman's story about her husband joining a cult and mass delusions. She never completely believed the Refugees's Terminator-esque story, was probably still expecting to find a more rational explanation and all this led to her simply not considering that she was walking into a potentially dangerous situation.

Edited April 28, 2018 by ursula

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

The big black guy who seemed like another veteran human soldier who is sort of the leader of those who made the Crossing. he is reminding me of Shepherd Book of Firefly.

Other than they're both black and have an unknown past, I don't see any resemblance at all.  Shepard had become a man of peace and healing; Caleb looks like he still prefers violence as a solution. All those years in nthe future and they still don't know anything about what causes a man to want to rape, and how to cure it?  I guess a few years in, all the studies on mental illness, including sociopathy, have completely gone by the wayside.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Other than they're both black and have an unknown past, I don't see any resemblance at all.  Shepard had become a man of peace and healing; Caleb looks like he still prefers violence as a solution. All those years in nthe future and they still don't know anything about what causes a man to want to rape, and how to cure it?  I guess a few years in, all the studies on mental illness, including sociopathy, have completely gone by the wayside.

It seemed like he wanted to be at peace when rape guy started to stalk a victim to me. His turn seemed more like Book kneecapping the first time he turned and gave hints of his past.

[Clanstarling]

On 4/24/2018 at 8:16 AM, icemiser69 said:

I believe she (Emma) is dead, but it took far too long for this show to get interesting.  I didn't see that death coming at all.

 

It didn't seem to be a kill shot to me - upper shoulder - unless it hit an artery and she bled out - but I didn't see that much blood pooling.

On 4/26/2018 at 7:15 PM, ursula said:

This attitude has always puzzled. There are many stories with foregone conclusions - from superhero movies to romantic comedies to fantasy stories of good vs evil - we all pretty know going in, what's going to happen. The "the getting there", what you are describing as "dragging out" is the entertainment. I mean, isn't that the whole point of actually watching/reading/experiencing a story instead of just reading the plot summary off Wikipedia? Give me one quality, "dragged out" story for a season, instead of 10 one-and-done and ultimately insubstantial plots per episode.

It's the journey, not the destination. I agree. Not all shows hold up to that, but I'm generally ready to give them some mileage before deciding the show's not worth watching.

20 hours ago, ursula said:

Up until she saw her boss in that picture (and got shot), Emma was buying the woman's story about her husband joining a cult and mass delusions. She never completely believed the Refugees's Terminator-esque story, was probably still expecting to find a more rational explanation and all this led to her simply not considering that she was walking into a potentially dangerous situation.

 

I'm not sure I'd agree. She decided not to run facial recognition through Homeland Security, told the Sheriff they shouldn't talk on the phone. I'm not sure she'd be that cautious if she was expecting a rational explanation. She knows something's off - and by taking it outside of her usual channels, means she's thinking something's off within her own organization.  On the other hand, she was certainly not cautious when talking to the guy's wife, and she should have been. I do think she was starting to believe the woman though - there was a certain look of relief on her face. Until she saw the photo with her boss in it.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Clanstarling

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

It didn't seem to be a kill shot to me - upper shoulder - unless it hit an artery and she bled out - but I didn't see that much blood pooling.

Plus:

Spoiler

She has been advertised as a star/lead of the show, and IMDb lists Sandrine Holt in 11 episodes…

But:

Spoiler

They could be flashbacks, or, even more likely, the character listings are still incomplete and not entirely accurate.

I would probably groan if Reese saves Emma with magical healing blood (like one of those cans you spray into a flat tire) and groan even louder if Emma then becomes an Apex. Although it could be cool to have Reese training Emma to "leap tall buildings in a single bound."

[ursula]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

She decided not to run facial recognition through Homeland Security, told the Sheriff they shouldn't talk on the phone. I'm not sure she'd be that cautious if she was expecting a rational explanation. She knows something's off - and by taking it outside of her usual channels, means she's thinking something's off within her own organization.  On the other hand, she was certainly not cautious when talking to the guy's wife, and she should have been. I do think she was starting to believe the woman though - there was a certain look of relief on her face. Until she saw the photo with her boss in it.

I think that while she was beginning to open up to the truth, there was still a big part of her that was expecting a rational explanation. She definitely knew that there was something up - but there was still a leap between believing in a larger conspiracy and believing in time travel and she hadn't quite crossed that leap. And I agree that she was relieved to hear the woman's Down-To-Earth explanation of events because that confirmed her own preferred explanation of things.

[mythoughtis]

Emma had the light flip in her head when she saw the photo- but didn’t have time to react or even turn around. 

Caleb wants to be a man of peace and is agreeable that all the refugees want a new start- but he seems to be a natural protector... so   No reason to play nice with a guy who doesn’t want to play nice himself. The guy already knows Caleb is a former  hunter of apex collaborators, he should have known Caleb wasn’t a pushover. 

I think Hannah was directed to hunt up Marshall- which is interesting in that the refugees didn’t know when or where they would end up. So - whom ever gave her the locket did- almost as if she’s her own great great something granddaughter. That’s what I get out of it. 

Thete are too many stories all at once here- the same as in lost.  Now please, show, don’t go down the rabbit hole that was Losts last three seasons. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by mythoughtis

[ursula]

6 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I think Hannah was directed to hunt up Marshall- which is interesting in that the refugees didn’t know when or where they would end up. So - whom ever gave her the locket did- almost as if she’s her own great great something granddaughter. That’s what I get out of it. 

US Network TV will never go there. Lol. But I'm wondering if this isn't a closed time loop thing. 

[Dowel Jones]

13 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Emma had the light flip in her head when she saw the photo- but didn’t have time to react or even turn around. 

That was what I was alluding to in my original post about the scene.  I thought that she stared at the photo way too long, instead of getting herself in gear and assuming that she was in trouble.  But then, we as the audience know things she doesn't, obviously.  As soon as the woman opened the door, I said "That's the woman on the phone from last episode."

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Caleb wants to be a man of peace and is agreeable that all the refugees want a new start- but he seems to be a natural protector... so   No reason to play nice with a guy who doesn’t want to play nice himself. The guy already knows Caleb is a former  hunter of apex collaborators, he should have known Caleb wasn’t a pushover.

Caleb reminds me of Philip in The Americans. They're both "retired" from a former life of violence and death, seeking peace and perhaps some absolution. But you'd better not mess with them, because their skills and moves are ingrained.

5 hours ago, ursula said:

I think that while she was beginning to open up to the truth, there was still a big part of her that was expecting a rational explanation. She definitely knew that there was something up - but there was still a leap between believing in a larger conspiracy and believing in time travel and she hadn't quite crossed that leap. And I agree that she was relieved to hear the woman's Down-To-Earth explanation of events because that confirmed her own preferred explanation of things.

Fair point.

[AngelKitty]

I hope Emma's not dead, but that was a pretty good death stare. I think it was really stupid for Eve to shoot her, especially if she knows Emma's boss. Seems to me, they could have tried to get her on their side. Killing Emma is not going to solve any problems for the previous time travelers. Too many people know and there is no way they could ever get all the Crossers to keep quiet.

We know why these Crossers are here. They were escaping the persecution of the Apex. But why did the previous group travel back in time? What is their agenda? By shooting Emma, it seems they are bad guys, but Emma's boss didn't kill the guy on the bridge, so maybe he's not all bad.

Also, why didn't the husband know why his wife travelled. If she was part of a faction with an agenda, it seems to me he should have known more and could have warned Emma. Everybody knows more than they are saying and that makes me mad.

[ursula]

46 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

But why did the previous group travel back in time? What is their agenda?

It seems like they went back to change the future. I remember when Emma's Boss and DeadScaryBlackGuy talked about the Arrivals and they said something like:  "they  "despite everything we've been doing, nothing's changed..."

48 minutes ago, AngelKitty said:

By shooting Emma, it seems they are bad guys, but Emma's boss didn't kill the guy on the bridge, so maybe he's not all bad.

I think someone in another thread said that the "the treatment was as bad as the disease". In the effort to fight the monsters that are the Apex, the first Crossers basically became monsters. Not unlike Caleb, who seems like a genuinely good man but is obviously capable of - and has committed - some horrifically violent deeds. 

Even though DeadScaryBlackGuy was technically a "good guy" for wanting Apex dead, the sadistic anticipation he had to hunt and torture Reese was obviously meant to be disturbing. Heck, you can argue that they deliberately cast a ScaryBlackMan to play that role to invoke those feelings of revulsion in the audience. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, AngelKitty said:

I hope Emma's not dead, but that was a pretty good death stare. I think it was really stupid for Eve to shoot her, especially if she knows Emma's boss. Seems to me, they could have tried to get her on their side. Killing Emma is not going to solve any problems for the previous time travelers. Too many people know and there is no way they could ever get all the Crossers to keep quiet.

We know why these Crossers are here. They were escaping the persecution of the Apex. But why did the previous group travel back in time? What is their agenda? By shooting Emma, it seems they are bad guys, but Emma's boss didn't kill the guy on the bridge, so maybe he's not all bad.

Also, why didn't the husband know why his wife travelled. If she was part of a faction with an agenda, it seems to me he should have known more and could have warned Emma. Everybody knows more than they are saying and that makes me mad.

Yes it was. It didn't seem to be fatal wound, but it certainly looked like she was dead.

My take on Emma's boss is that he let the guy live so he could be sent back to the camp to tell the Crossers to shut up about the whole time travel thing.

[Efzee]

On 30-4-2018 at 1:50 PM, AngelKitty said:

I hope Emma's not dead, but that was a pretty good death stare. I think it was really stupid for Eve to shoot her, especially if she knows Emma's boss. Seems to me, they could have tried to get her on their side. Killing Emma is not going to solve any problems for the previous time travelers. Too many people know and there is no way they could ever get all the Crossers to keep quiet.

We know why these Crossers are here. They were escaping the persecution of the Apex. But why did the previous group travel back in time? What is their agenda? By shooting Emma, it seems they are bad guys, but Emma's boss didn't kill the guy on the bridge, so maybe he's not all bad.

Also, why didn't the husband know why his wife travelled. If she was part of a faction with an agenda, it seems to me he should have known more and could have warned Emma. Everybody knows more than they are saying and that makes me mad.

In the pilot, Emma told Caleb (I think) that the date of birth he gave, was nearly 150 years into the future. And we also saw the year (21-something something) in Reece's flashbacks/forwards. So, obviously the husband knew his wife had traveled to the past, otherwise why ask anyone to run a facial recognition on her if her own great grandparents haven't even been born yet? He was hoping to get reunited with her and presumably didn't expect her (and the other earlier refugees, like Lindebauer or whatever his name was) to have turned out the way she did. He knew she would have a lot of money though. They probably had the plan for a bunch of them to go back in time and try to change the past and he (and others) would follow in the next batch. Now, for some reason at least a decade passed before the next group (husband's group) traveled back into the past, possibly due to some malfunctioning equipment, maybe the power or parts needed for the device or they/he needed to stay in their current timeline for some reason. Eve, however, did not seem to have expected Emma. Now, it's possible she'd been expecting her husband to show up on his own and to be clever enough to wait to be released from the refugee camp and allowed to go his merry way after being "cleared" by Homeland Security instead of blabbing to HS about his wife/earlier refugees, or she believed he'd never follow her (either by choice or because he took so long).