S05.E17: The Honeymoon

[Proteus]

11 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Yeah - Daisy. Repeatedly. And she's the only person who needs to say that.

When Daisy just met Deke, she rebuffed him. She said she wanted to kill him when he sold her to Kasius. She's made it clear she isn't interested in him when they've been on modern day Earth. And those couples you're talking about don't usually involve one of the partners being the victim of the other person, which makes the entire pairing gross and pointless (it was bad enough when people wanted to see Daisy with Ward even after the rape threat).

I don't think so. This is one part of the story. Just because Daisy says she's not interested in Deke doesn't mean she isn't. Countless pairings begin that way on tv with a push/pull.

You may find the story gross. I don't. Deke/Daisy is clearly where the show is going and I'm happy about that. He's saved her life countless times so while you may see him as a monster, the show clearly doesn't.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Proteus

[TVSpectator]

On 4/15/2018 at 11:42 PM, Froippi said:

I mean what do you expect them to do it’s not like they have real authority anymore it’s not government ran anymore so most rules don’t apply

 

All Agents but maybe Mack could be thrown in Jail also

 

So you just want SHIELD to forget a man that could snap into his Dr. Hydra Scottish Mengele Fitzler persona on a drop of a dime and not have him locked before he can somehow get better? Dude admits that he just gave into his Fitzler persona and if that happens again, he is going to hurt people. He is a danger and SHIELD was restored to the public's eye and to the US government so they do have authority to lock up him- if need be. Now, what to do with him, they are probably going to try to "fix" him (and I won't be surprised if Fitlzer kills Ruby). 

On 4/15/2018 at 11:49 PM, Proteus said:

Nope. This is one part of the story. Just because Daisy says she's not interested in Deke doesn't mean she isn't. Countless pairings begin that way on tv with a push/pull.

You may find the story gross. I don't. Deke/Daisy is clearly where the show is going and I'm happy about that. He's saved her life countless times so while you may see him as a monster, the show clearly doesn't.

 

I wish that TV/movies would stop with the whole, "just because a woman says that she isn't interested in a male character means she that she really is interested in the male character". Granted they did this with Fitz and Simmons and look how that turned out- so I am not very happy that they are actually going to "explore" this on the show. There shouldn't be any Deke/Daisy pairing on this show because of what he did to her (and honestly it's actually kind of gross and goes to show how totally the writers have dropped the ball on this one, IMO). 

Edited April 18, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Lobsel Vith]

8 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I don't think so. This is one part of the story. Just because Daisy says she's not interested in Deke doesn't mean she isn't.

I have huge issues with the "no means yes" mentality that some have when it comes to how women feel about men who are interested in them.

8 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Countless pairings begin that way on tv with a push/pull.

Those pairings don't usually involve slavery and the woman already knowing the man. Daisy knows Deke, and she's made it clear she doesn't like him. What you're suggesting is that she does a 180 on her feelings, as if Deke's desires are the only thing that should matter.

9 minutes ago, Proteus said:

You may find the story gross. I don't.

Yeah, that much is obvious.

10 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Deke/Daisy is clearly where the show is going and I'm happy about that. He's saved her life countless times so while you may see him as a monster, the show clearly doesn't.

A one-sided infatuation isn't a romance, and the show being unable to properly criticize Deke for his role as a slaver doesn't make his actions any less reprehensible.

[Froippi]

This Deke/ Daisy storyline reminds me another tv show that had a pretty disturbing one but it started werid from the pilot to though

4 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

So you just want SHIELD to forget a man that could snap into his Dr. Hydra Scottish Mengela Fitzler persona on a drop of a dime and not have him locked before he can somehow get better? Dude admits that he just gave into his Fitzler persona and if that happens again, he is going to hurt people. He is a danger and SHIELD was restored to the public's eye and to the US government so they do have authority to lock up him- if need be. Now, what to do with him, they are probably going to try to "fix" him (and I won't be surprised if Fitlzer kills Ruby). 

I wish that TV/movies would stop with the whole, "just because a woman says that she isn't interested in a male character means she that she really is interested in the male character". Granted they did this with Fitz and Simmons and look how that turned out- so I am not very happy that they are actually going to "explore" this on the show. There shouldn't be any Deke/Daisy pairing on this show because of what he did to her (and honestly it's actually kind of gross and goes to show how totally the writers have dropped the ball on this one, IMO). 

No shield is wanted by the U.S. government or did people just forget this 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Froippi

[Proteus]

3 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I have huge issues with the "no means yes" mentality that some have when it comes to how women feel about men who are interested in them.

Those pairings don't usually involve slavery and the woman already knowing the man. Daisy knows Deke, and she's made it clear she doesn't like him. What you're suggesting is that she does a 180 on her feelings, as if Deke's desires are the only thing that should matter.

Yeah, that much is obvious.

A one-sided infatuation isn't a romance, and the show being unable to properly criticize Deke for his role as a slaver doesn't make his actions any less reprehensible.

No, what I'm suggesting is things aren't as simple as you are making them out to be. You say Daisy wants nothing to do with Deke and is not interested in him. I think you are wrong about that.

They are not a one sided infatuation and I think that will be made clear soon.

The SHIELD team has welcomed Deke into their group. The characters in the show clearly don't see him as the bad guy that sold Daisy into slavery as you do.

[TVSpectator]

11 minutes ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I have huge issues with the "no means yes" mentality that some have when it comes to how women feel about men who are interested in them.

Those pairings don't usually involve slavery and the woman already knowing the man. Daisy knows Deke, and she's made it clear she doesn't like him. What you're suggesting is that she does a 180 on her feelings, as if Deke's desires are the only thing that should matter.

Yeah, that much is obvious.

A one-sided infatuation isn't a romance, and the show being unable to properly criticize Deke for his role as a slaver doesn't make his actions any less reprehensible.

They did this with Fitz and Simmons. Fitz had a one-way infatuation with Simmons, back in Season 1, and now after two dead love interests for Simmons, they are married and people have cheered for it for seasons (they also have cheered for them to have kids and look, the writers have pretty much given them everything they ever wanted. They have a grandson so they have to have at least one kid by the end of the series). The Deke and Daisy thing is pretty much the same thing they did with Fitz and Simmons and even to a degree with Coulson and May, IMO. A one-sided infatuation is pretty much how a romance story starts on this show (the only main romance story that didn't start out like that was Yo-Yo and Mack's relationship) but with Deke and Daisy it's gross (at best) and offensive since he literally sold her into slavery. For fuck's sake that fucking gross that they would have Daisy's fucking slaver expressed that he has romantic interest in her, IMO.  

9 minutes ago, Froippi said:

This Deke/ Daisy storyline reminds me another tv show that had a pretty disturbing one but it started werid from the pilot to though

No shield is wanted by the U.S. government or did people just forget this 

 

Oaky, but letting Fitz go isn't going to solve anything. Instead, its just going to get more innocent people killed which I thought SHIELD was supposedly against? Also, yeah, he needs to be locked up if not for the sake of the safety of others than at least for torturing Daisy. Dude can't just walk away from this and expect everything to be normal again. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Froippi]

12 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

They did this with Fitz and Simmons. Fitz had a one-way infatuation with Simmons, back in Season 1, and now after two dead love interests for Simmons, they are married and people have cheered for it for seasons (they also have cheered for them to have kids and look, the writers have pretty much given them everything they ever wanted. They have a grandson so they have to have at least one kid by the end of the series). The Deke and Daisy thing is pretty much the same thing they did with Fitz and Simmons and even to a degree with Coulson and May, IMO. A one-sided infatuation is pretty much how a romance story starts on this show (the only main romance story that didn't start out like that was Yo-Yo and Mack's relationship) but with Deke and Daisy it's gross (at best) and offensive since he literally sold her into slavery. For fuck's sake that fucking gross that they would have Daisy's fucking slaver expressed that he has romantic interest in her, IMO.  

Oaky, but letting Fitz go isn't going to solve anything. Instead, its just going to get more innocent people killed which I thought SHIELD was supposedly against? Also, yeah, he needs to be locked up if not for the sake of the safety of others than at least for torturing Daisy. Dude can't just walk away from this and expect everything to be normal again. 

 

walk away means nothing will be normal again but also I have a problem with Fitz being locked up but everyone else got away with their horrible shit so were going to make Fitz pay for his crimes and let everyone else get away with the horrible shit they did that is what I have a problem with you only want to punish one person 

so you can punish Fitz but we need to punish everyone else to for their past mistakes also

Edited April 16, 2018 by Froippi

[TVSpectator]

8 minutes ago, Froippi said:

walk away means nothing will be normal again but also I have a problem with Fitz being locked up but everyone else got away with their horrible shit so were going to make Fitz pay for his crimes and let everyone else get away with the horrible shit they did that is what I have a problem with you only want to punish one person 

so you can punish Fitz but we need to punish everyone else to for their past mistakes also

 

Well, I have a problem with Fitz just walking away from this. Whether he goes and lives with Simmons and/or just is left to be with himself is still just handwaving his shit away. It will just be a loose end that won't get resolved in any way and sometimes- people need to be locked away. Ward needed to be locked away and now Fitz needs to be locked away. 

 

Personally, I am fine with punishing everyone else as well. I am just really tired of this handwaving that is all. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Froippi]

5 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Well, I have a problem with Fitz just walking away from this. Whether he goes and lives with Simmons and/or just is left to be with himself is still just handwaving his shit away. It will just be a loose end that won't get resolved in any way and sometimes- people need to be locked away. Ward needed to be locked away and now Fitz needs to be locked away. 

 

Personally, I am fine with punishing everyone else as well. I am just really tired of this handwaving that is all. 

then this I can get behind will agree with it 

[Gothish520]

If I never see the term "hand-waving" again, it will be too soon.

[jhlipton]

I hate when characters are stupid for no reason, especially with dumb-ass "I will not kill" plot-lines.  When Ruby and Daisy are fighting, there were at least 3 times when Ruby was standing apart from Daisy, and Deke could have shot her.  Then after saying "she's down for the count", put a bullet in her brain and make sure.  Ugh.

[Lobsel Vith]

6 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

If I never see the term "hand-waving" again, it will be too soon.

Some of us are just tired of characters crossing lines without consequence. It's a bit frustrating when people seem to act like selling someone into slavery for money is akin to leaving the toilet seat up.

5 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I hate when characters are stupid for no reason, especially with dumb-ass "I will not kill" plot-lines.  When Ruby and Daisy are fighting, there were at least 3 times when Ruby was standing apart from Daisy, and Deke could have shot her.  Then after saying "she's down for the count", put a bullet in her brain and make sure.  Ugh.

Yeah, there are certainly times that the plot hasn't allowed characters to act in a more sensible manner (like no one questioning why it would've been so easy to hack into Hale's phone), but Deke has no real proficiency with firerms. He ran a real risk of shooting Daisy because, unlike May and Daisy, he's using a weapon he has no real experience with (guns were generally banned in the Lighthouse).

[CaptainTightpants]

9 hours ago, Proteus said:

The SHIELD team has welcomed Deke into their group.

Except that nobody likes him with the exception of Jemma. And I think that only happened because she knows they are related now. 

The ongoing joke for the last couple of episodes is everybody feeling sorry for Jemma and Fitz now that they are related to Deke. Who nobody likes. 

9 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Oaky, but letting Fitz go isn't going to solve anything. Instead, its just going to get more innocent people killed which I thought SHIELD was supposedly against? Also, yeah, he needs to be locked up if not for the sake of the safety of others than at least for torturing Daisy. Dude can't just walk away from this and expect everything to be normal again.

I think even Fitz knows he is unstable mentally. He believes that he did the right thing but has enough self-awareness to know that he is dangerous now. They have a lot of balls in the air plotwise at the moment but I expect to see a return to this issue before the finale. 

9 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

There shouldn't be any Deke/Daisy pairing on this show because of what he did to her

I haven't seen anything in the entire season to indicate that Daisy is remotely interested in Deke. She has stated several times that she dislikes him. And his morphine-induced confession to Mack and Piper indicates that he knows it. Because he says at least twice that Daisy doesn't like him "at all".  

I would be very disappointed if the show gives any time to this. They only have a few episodes left this season to wrap up this dragging storyline. Surely they have more pressing matters to attend to besides who Deke is interested in. Daisy has a lot on her plate with Coulson dying and being the presumptive leader of SHIELD and this little thing the kids are calling "Destroyer of Worlds" needs to be wrapped up as well. I will be incensed if they waste time on another plot just to fit stupid Deke into a scene somewhere. 

As for Deke, after five years and a possible series cancellation I am not about to get invested in a new character that has been shoehorned into the plot. I am devoutly hoping that he is finished when this season is. If they get a season 6 renewal I hope to see the return of some fan favorites instead of this uninteresting character. I would much prefer if his screen time was given to Talbot, who is an established character and a favorite of mine. 

[MostlyC]

I’ll say it: I like Deke. He’s quirky, he’s funny, and cute. He’s a bit of an outsider and offers that perspective, I think.  

It’s a tv show.  It ain’t real, and I enjoy the escapist entertainment.

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Except that nobody likes him with the exception of Jemma. And I think that only happened because she knows they are related now. 

The ongoing joke for the last couple of episodes is everybody feeling sorry for Jemma and Fitz now that they are related to Deke. Who nobody likes. 

I think even Fitz knows he is unstable mentally. He believes that he did the right thing but has enough self-awareness to know that he is dangerous now. They have a lot of balls in the air plotwise at the moment but I expect to see a return to this issue before the finale. 

I haven't seen anything in the entire season to indicate that Daisy is remotely interested in Deke. She has stated several times that she dislikes him. And his morphine-induced confession to Mack and Piper indicates that he knows it. Because he says at least twice that Daisy doesn't like him "at all".  

I would be very disappointed if the show gives any time to this. They only have a few episodes left this season to wrap up this dragging storyline. Surely they have more pressing matters to attend to besides who Deke is interested in. Daisy has a lot on her plate with Coulson dying and being the presumptive leader of SHIELD and this little thing the kids are calling "Destroyer of Worlds" needs to be wrapped up as well. I will be incensed if they waste time on another plot just to fit stupid Deke into a scene somewhere. 

As for Deke, after five years and a possible series cancellation I am not about to get invested in a new character that has been shoehorned into the plot. I am devoutly hoping that he is finished when this season is. If they get a season 6 renewal I hope to see the return of some fan favorites instead of this uninteresting character. I would much prefer if his screen time was given to Talbot, who is an established character and a favorite of mine. 

Its clear that Deke is Daisys love interest. That's why they have shared so many scenes together and an attraction is evident. The show isn't writing this as a story of a man pursuing a woman that does not or will never want him back.

[MissLucas]

I don't think it's that clear that Deke is Daisy's love interest. Sure he's infatuated with her, but it's one-sided and I don't see any indication that this will go the classic screwball comedy route. For a variety of reasons - one being that I don't see Deke surviving the season. 

[Gothish520]

6 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Some of us are just tired of characters crossing lines without consequence. It's a bit frustrating when people seem to act like selling someone into slavery for money is akin to leaving the toilet seat up.

 

Well seeing as how Deke himself used the phrase "selling into slavery" I will give you that one, lol! I didn't see it quite that way but apparently even the characters themselves did.

But overall I'm quite enjoying all of these shades of gray. I think this show does a bang-up job of presenting people as complex and confusing. Who's good and who's bad? It's not always cut and dried. I can't even hate Hale as much as I probably should, given her backstory. 

And I still can't help but love Fitz, Simmons, and FitzSimmons. 

[romantic idiot]

16 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

And yet, when Fitz carelessly jumped into the monolith in season three, Daisy risked her life to save Simmons and Fitz from Maveth. She also offered to sacrifice her life to deal with the rift initially in this season. 

Daisy's always been quick to sacrifice herself (and I wish the universe would take her up on that) but she's hella stubborn. I don't think she had a particular opinion on Fitz going to the planet thing, but she was very clear that she didn't want her powers restored. Getting Daisy to change her mind once it's made up just doesn't happen (and it wouldn't have happened here). Writer's fiat may often make Daisy's choice the right choice but from the point of view of characters I can understand why Fitz felt that he wasn't going to be able to (1) convince Daisy that restoring her powers was right and (2) going past Coulson, Mack and May who would have also prevented the restoration because of the risk to their precious protege/daughter/partner. 

14 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I have huge issues with the "no means yes" mentality that some have when it comes to how women feel about men who are interested in them.

Agreed. But I don't see that happening here. Deke isn't pursuing Daisy. He was concerned because he likes her so he went to help. And under the influence of drugs he told people who are not Daisy that he likes her. No pursuing happening here, nor any assuming that her 'no' is a 'yes'. Now if Daisy changes her mind or begins to like aspects of Deke (he's smart, adaptable, tries to help her, likes her, sacrifice his life to help them come home) - she should be allowed to do that. IMO.

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

I don't think it's that clear that Deke is Daisy's love interest. Sure he's infatuated with her, but it's one-sided and I don't see any indication that this will go the classic screwball comedy route. For a variety of reasons - one being that I don't see Deke surviving the season. 

IMO, it is not one sided.

[Lobsel Vith]

3 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

she Daisy's always been quick to sacrifice herself (and I wish the universe would take her up on that) but she's hella stubborn. I don't think she had a particular opinion on Fitz going to the planet thing, but she was very clear that she didn't want her powers restored. Getting Daisy to change her mind once it's made up just doesn't happen (and it wouldn't have happened here).

I don't see why. Daisy changed her mind about S.H.I.E.L.D. because of Coulson and the crew in season one. Daisy's mind was changed about Ward once she discovered he was Hydra. Daisy was wrong about her mother in season two, and admitted as much. I'm not a big fan of Fitz doing some terrible things and people trying to rationalize it by blaming the people he hurt. Daisy was tortured, Mack was injured protecting Yo-yo, and this could've easily been avoided if he explained that her powers were the only means of dealing with the rift. It's not like Daisy would have let people die rather than seal the rift.

3 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Writer's fiat may often make Daisy's choice the right choice but from the point of view of characters I can understand why Fitz felt that he wasn't going to be able to (1) convince Daisy that restoring her powers was right and (2) going past Coulson, Mack and May who would have also prevented the restoration because of the risk to their precious protege/daughter/partner. 

The writers haven't even bothered to deal with Daisy dealing with her trauma because everyone but Daisy seems to have already forgiven Fitz for crossing such drastic lines (the characters in general seem to be getting the short drift in favor of the Fitz and Simmons story, which I've never found remotely appealing because of how the writers handled it in the early seasons). And restoring her powers is one thing, but it's the manner in which he did it which is the issue - which was putting the entire team at risk from his dangerous robots and torturing a woman.

3 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Agreed. But I don't see that happening here. Deke isn't pursuing Daisy. He was concerned because he likes her so he went to help. And under the influence of drugs he told people who are not Daisy that he likes her. No pursuing happening here, nor any assuming that her 'no' is a 'yes'.

Deke mentioned that he thought Daisy and him were developing a connection (in the present day), and she shut him down, so it's not accurate to say that he hasn't tried to pursue her.

3 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Now if Daisy changes her mind or begins to like aspects of Deke (he's smart, adaptable, tries to help her, likes her, sacrifice his life to help them come home) - she should be allowed to do that. IMO.

That would be pretty damn disgusting considering that he sold her into slavery for money and she has repeatedly said she isn't interested in him even after he sold her into slavery.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Lobsel Vith

[Proteus]

4 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Well seeing as how Deke himself used the phrase "selling into slavery" I will give you that one, lol! I didn't see it quite that way but apparently even the characters themselves did.

But overall I'm quite enjoying all of these shades of gray. I think this show does a bang-up job of presenting people as complex and confusing. Who's good and who's bad? It's not always cut and dried. I can't even hate Hale as much as I probably should, given her backstory. 

And I still can't help but love Fitz, Simmons, and FitzSimmons. 

Thank you. Things are not as black & white as Deke is EVIL. Deke & Daisy will get together. It's obvious to me.

[TVSpectator]

50 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Thank you. Things are not as black & white as Deke is EVIL. Deke & Daisy will get together. It's obvious to me.

Yeah, it's obvious that they will probably end up together but that doesn't excuse the fact that it's going to be totally tone deaf and gross when it happens. because having Daisy fall her slaver isn't really great material, IMO. I do know that some people want to excuse the whole, "selling into slavery thing" as something innocent, innocuous, and/or even cute (and that Deke just didn't know any better because he had a rough childhood and/or it's what people in his time just do, etc....) but really it's just tone deaf, IMO. I mean sure Fitz tortured Daisy this season but honestly, I just want to see actual humans dealing with actual events/in a way that regular humans would deal with it because falling for your slaver and/or forgiven your torturer is probably low on the list of things most people would do. Not to mention that this show has always been having their main characters (like Coulson, Fitz, Simmons, and Daisy for certain) do really horrible things and then it gets glossed over. Not to mention that somehow every season all the really big bad guys just go after them, they end up saving the world, they are supposedly part of some kind of prophecy, they are the best of SHIELD (even though the show started out with them being the misfits of SHIELD and Daisy a hacker named Skye) and they think that people should prise their names, the last rements of humanity are telling stories that one day SHIELD will retrun when it should be people like the Avengers (assuming that Thanos doesn't kill them all in Infiinty War), everyone gets paired up, etc... is nothing but flat out fanservice and shipper's wish fulfillment and honestly, I am sick of it. 

2 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I don't see why. Daisy changed her mind about S.H.I.E.L.D. because of Coulson and the crew in season one. Daisy's mind was changed about Ward once she discovered he was Hydra. Daisy was wrong about her mother in season two, and admitted as much. I'm not a big fan of Fitz doing some terrible things and people trying to rationalize it by blaming the people he hurt. Daisy was tortured, Mack was injured protecting Yo-yo, and this could've easily been avoided if he explained that her powers were the only means of dealing with the rift. It's not like Daisy would have let people die rather than seal the rift.

1

You are right, Daisy was tortured but people are passing the buck to her because they don't want to admit that Fitz did something hideous (and that all that the characters need to do to solve everything is to just talk at each other, but for some things talking has passed, IMO), but at the same time Fitz is one half of the Fitz/Simmons ship and there is no way the writes will allow that ship to break up (even though the  most logical choice and the most believable choice is for him to be locked up) and this is probably also the reason why so many people are going to give Deke a gaint handwave for his actions towards Daisy (and possiblity why some want him to date/fall in love with Daisy. Although I feel like since this show has so many shippers as fans (and the writers are probably also shippers) this probably didn't need to happen- because shippers are the worst, IMO).

Quote

 

The writers haven't even bothered to deal with Daisy dealing with her trauma because everyone but Daisy seems to have already forgiven Fitz for crossing such drastic lines (the characters in general seem to be getting the short drift in favor of the Fitz and Simmons story, which I've never found remotely appealing because of how the writers handled it in the early seasons). And restoring her powers is one thing, but it's the manner in which he did it which is the issue - which was putting the entire team at risk from his dangerous robots and torturing a woman.

Deke mentioned that he thought Daisy and him were developing a connection (in the present day), and she shut him down, so it's not accurate to say that he hasn't tried to pursue her.

That would be pretty damn disgusting considering that he sold her into slavery for money and she has repeatedly said she isn't interested in him even after he sold her into slavery.

 

The writers haven't bothered with handling a lot of issues. First, look at how long they spent not handling Gravitron (and the only reason why they are bothering now is that they actually realized that they probably will be canceled. They didn't even bothered giving us little hints/info dumps on where Hall and the Gravitron are throughout the series. Not only that but look on how they handled the Fitz and Simmons relationship (and yeah, like you I do have issues with it because of the way it was handled in the past and I hated how the writers just decided to have not one person died but two dead love interests for Simmons, so she can finally just settle with Fitz), it's all pretty much repeating itself, IMO. 

[Froippi]

11 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Yeah, it's obvious that they will probably end up together but that doesn't excuse the fact that it's going to be totally tone deaf and gross when it happens. because having Daisy fall her slaver isn't really great material, IMO. I do know that some people want to excuse the whole, "selling into slavery thing" as something innocent, innocuous, and/or even cute (and that Deke just didn't know any better because he had a rough childhood and/or it's what people in his time just do, etc....) but really it's just tone deaf, IMO. I mean sure Fitz tortured Daisy this season but honestly, I just want to see actual humans dealing with actual events/in a way that regular humans would deal with it because falling for your slaver and/or forgiven your torturer is probably low on the list of things most people would do. Not to mention that this show has always been having their main characters (like Coulson, Fitz, Simmons, and Daisy for certain) do really horrible things and then it gets glossed over. Not to mention that somehow every season all the really big bad guys just go after them, they end up saving the world, they are supposedly part of some kind of prophecy, they are the best of SHIELD (even though the show started out with them being the misfits of SHIELD and Daisy a hacker named Skye) and they think that people should prise their names, the last rements of humanity are telling stories that one day SHIELD will retrun when it should be people like the Avengers (assuming that Thanos doesn't kill them all in Infiinty War), everyone gets paired up, etc... is nothing but flat out fanservice and shipper's wish fulfillment and honestly, I am sick of it. 

You are right, Daisy was tortured but people are passing the buck to her because they don't want to admit that Fitz did something hideous (and that all that the characters need to do to solve everything is to just talk at each other, but for some things talking has passed, IMO), but at the same time Fitz is one half of the Fitz/Simmons ship and there is no way the writes will allow that ship to break up (even though the  most logical choice and the most believable choice is for him to be locked up) and this is probably also the reason why so many people are going to give Deke a gaint handwave for his actions towards Daisy (and possiblity why some want him to date/fall in love with Daisy. Although I feel like since this show has so many shippers as fans (and the writers are probably also shippers) this probably didn't need to happen- because shippers are the worst, IMO).

The writers haven't bothered with handling a lot of issues. First, look at how long they spent not handling Gravitron (and the only reason why they are bothering now is that they actually realized that they probably will be canceled. They didn't even bothered giving us little hints/info dumps on where Hall and the Gravitron are throughout the series. Not only that but look on how they handled the Fitz and Simmons relationship (and yeah, like you I do have issues with it because of the way it was handled in the past and I hated how the writers just decided to have not one person died but two dead love interests for Simmons, so she can finally just settle with Fitz), it's all pretty much repeating itself, IMO. 

Well I admit he did a really messed up thing and I still believe it was right thing to do but Fitz doesn’t want forgiveness you think that would count for something 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Froippi

[TVSpectator]

2 minutes ago, Froippi said:

Well I admit he did a really messed up thing and I still believe it was right thing to do but Fitz doesn’t want forgiveness you think that would count for something 

Well, if Fitz doesn't want forgiveness then let's lock him up okay. As with what he did, it wasn't right and really all he had to do was to just ask Daisy if he can restore her powers and explain why. 

[Froippi]

5 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Well, if Fitz doesn't want forgiveness then let's lock him up okay. As with what he did, it wasn't right and really all he had to do was to just ask Daisy if he can restore her powers and explain why. 

She has explain time and time again she doesn’t want them back even if he talk to her we can almost guarantee what the answer will be but again it don’t matter cause he did not ask 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Froippi

[TVSpectator]

4 minutes ago, Froippi said:

She has explain time and time again she doesn’t want them back even if he talk to her we can almost guarantee what the answer will be but again it don’t matter cause he did not ask 

Okay. So Daisy doesn't want to forgive Fitz, fine, but why hasn't she sent agents trying to capture him? 

[CaptainTightpants]

12 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Okay. So Daisy doesn't want to forgive Fitz, fine, but why hasn't she sent agents trying to capture him?

She only just found out about the situation with the "invincibles". But more importantly, Coulson is back so he is the one in charge. It is his job to dispatch whatever few agents they have left to bring the idiots back into the fold. 

And Fitz saying he doesn't want forgiveness was a pronouncement of arrogance and mental fucking illness combined. He needs a dumptruck full of therapy. 

[Froippi]

38 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Okay. So Daisy doesn't want to forgive Fitz, fine, but why hasn't she sent agents trying to capture him? 

The last we heard they had just got a hit on a LMD which is probably what will happen in next episode they go after Fitz but then again you have a Talbot Hydra agent so might not be going anywhere 

 

Plus Coulson is in charge now so Daisy lost authority 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Froippi

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, TVSpectator said:

Yeah, it's obvious that they will probably end up together but that doesn't excuse the fact that it's going to be totally tone deaf and gross when it happens. because having Daisy fall her slaver isn't really great material, IMO. I do know that some people want to excuse the whole, "selling into slavery thing" as something innocent, innocuous, and/or even cute (and that Deke just didn't know any better because he had a rough childhood and/or it's what people in his time just do, etc....) but really it's just tone deaf, IMO. I mean sure Fitz tortured Daisy this season but honestly, I just want to see actual humans dealing with actual events/in a way that regular humans would deal with it because falling for your slaver and/or forgiven your torturer is probably low on the list of things most people would do. 

Here's the thing. This is a sci fi fantasy show. You're trying to simply the Deke/Daisy situation as a man who sold a woman into slavery. IMO, trying to paint the story as simple as that is ignoring a lot of what happened and has happened. I get that you can't move past what Deke did. But I can. I just don't care at all about this issue anymore. That one act IMO doesn't define the character. Deke has done so much good towards Daisy and the team that I do not look at him as some evil slaver who sold poor Daisy.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Proteus

[Raja]

1 minute ago, Proteus said:

Here's the thing. You're trying to apply real world logic to a sci fi fantasy show. You're trying to simply the Deke/Daisy situation as a man who sold a woman into slavery. IMO, trying to paint the story as simple as that is ignoring a lot of what happened and has happened. I get that you can't move past what Deke did. But I can. I just don't care at all about this issue anymore. That one act IMO doesn't define the character. Deke has done so much good towards Daisy and the team that I do not look at him as some evil slaver who sold poor Daisy.

I agree he did exactly what Valkyrie for only her personal gain did in Thor . They already had shown that Kassius punished the entire community for the actions of one Deke's long game actions had the greater goal of protecting the born slaves on his level who would face punishment from Daisy's single minded go alone actions

[TVSpectator]

On 4/16/2018 at 11:08 PM, Proteus said:

Here's the thing. This is a sci fi fantasy show. You're trying to simply the Deke/Daisy situation as a man who sold a woman into slavery. IMO, trying to paint the story as simple as that is ignoring a lot of what happened and has happened. I get that you can't move past what Deke did. But I can. I just don't care at all about this issue anymore. That one act IMO doesn't define the character. Deke has done so much good towards Daisy and the team that I do not look at him as some evil slaver who sold poor Daisy.

 

Look, trying to handwave Deke's decision to sell Daisy into slavery for money is what the show is trying to do. Not only that but shipping them together is pointless because you have the baggage that Deke treated Daisy (and saw Daisy) as nothing more than chattle to be sold to the Kree. It is a defining feature of him because he obviously doesn't see what was so wrong about it and the show isn't even bothering trying to be a little self-aware about their pairing choices, IMO. Sure they made him into Fitz and Simmons grandson but guess what I don't care if he is Fitz and Simmons grandson because he is a horrible person. Not only that but, IMO, the writing has made his grandparents into some pretty horrible people as well.  

Plus, that is pretty much all we really know about him is that a) he runs a bar with Framework tech, b) sold Daisy into slavery for money, c) is Fitz and Simmons grandson, d) his mom is dead (because the Kree murder her) but he has no problem with working with the same people who murder his mother and now e) he has feeling for Daisy.

On 4/16/2018 at 11:13 PM, Raja said:

I agree he did exactly what Valkyrie for only her personal gain did in Thor . They already had shown that Kassius punished the entire community for the actions of one Deke's long game actions had the greater goal of protecting the born slaves on his level who would face punishment from Daisy's single minded go alone actions

Did Ragnorok, try to have a love story between Valkyrie and Thor?

Edited April 18, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Proteus]

29 minutes ago, Raja said:

I agree he did exactly what Valkyrie for only her personal gain did in Thor . They already had shown that Kassius punished the entire community for the actions of one Deke's long game actions had the greater goal of protecting the born slaves on his level who would face punishment from Daisy's single minded go alone actions

That's a good comparison. I will just never agree with the naritive that Deke is an evil slaver who sold poor Daisy.

 

28 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Look, trying to handwave Deke's decision to sell Daisy into slavery for money is what the show is trying to do. Not only that but shipping them together is pointless because you have the baggage that Deke treated Daisy (and saw Daisy) as nothing more than cattle to be sold to the Kree. It is a defining feature of him because he obviously doesn't see what was so wrong about it and the show isn't even bothering trying to be a little self-aware about their pairing choices, IMO. Sure they made him into Fitz and Simmons grandson but guess what I don't care if he is Fitz and Simmons grandson because he is a horrible person. Not only that but, IMO, the writing has made his grandparents into some pretty horrible people as well.  

Plus, that is pretty much all we really know about him is that a) he runs a bar with Framework tech, b) sold Daisy into slavery for money, c) is Fitz and Simmons grandson, d) his mom is dead (because the Kree murder her) but he has no problem with working with the same people who murder his mother and now e) he has feeling for Daisy.

Did Ragnorok, try to have a love story between Valkyrie and Thor?

 

I will keep shipping Deke/Daisy. I love them together and truly do not care about the "selling into slavery" stuff. Everything I've seen shows that Deke is a good person. He's saved Daisys life multiple times and was willing to die for the team. There's more pointing to him being a good person than bad.

Im glad that other viewers, as well as the cast, seem to love Deke as well.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Proteus

[TVSpectator]

23 minutes ago, Proteus said:

That's a good comparison. I will just never agree with the naritive that Deke is an evil slaver who sold poor Daisy.

 

I will keep shipping Deke/Daisy. I love them together and truly do not care about the "selling into slavery" stuff. Everything I've seen shows that Deke is a good person. He's saved Daisys life multiple times and was willing to die for the team. There's more pointing to him being a good person than bad.

Totally tone deaf, IMO. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by TVSpectator

[tessaray]

38 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Look, trying to handwave Deke's decision to sell Daisy into slavery for money is what the show is trying to do. Not only that but shipping them together is pointless because you have the baggage that Deke treated Daisy (and saw Daisy) as nothing more than cattle to be sold to the Kree. It is a defining feature of him because he obviously doesn't see what was so wrong about it and the show isn't even bothering trying to be a little self-aware about their pairing choices, IMO. Sure they made him into Fitz and Simmons grandson but guess what I don't care if he is Fitz and Simmons grandson because he is a horrible person. Not only that but, IMO, the writing has made his grandparents into some pretty horrible people as well.  

Plus, that is pretty much all we really know about him is that a) he runs a bar with Framework tech, b) sold Daisy into slavery for money, c) is Fitz and Simmons grandson, d) his mom is dead (because the Kree murder her) but he has no problem with working with the same people who murder his mother and now e) he has feeling for Daisy.

 

When Coulson told Talbot that they had gone into the future, a future where humanity was enslaved by the Kree - I felt a little better because that aligned with what I felt was the fact that Deke was still basically a slave himself.  Which makes it a grayer (much grayer) area. Not necessarily more palatable, but more complicated. 

But honestly, I'm baffled that there are Daisy/Deke shippers, considering what happened in the future.  And if you get past that - if someone likes Deke at all - why would they want him with Daisy? Most guys Daisy falls for usually end up dead or otherwise unavailable at the end of an arc.  Right now Deke has a massive crush on Daisy (which is okay played for laughs) that is not reciprocated at all.  The most I'd ever expect (or want) is that they eventually become friendly-ish, as well as comrades in arms. 

[TVSpectator]

10 minutes ago, tessaray said:

When Coulson told Talbot that they had gone into the future, a future where humanity was enslaved by the Kree - I felt a little better because that aligned with what I felt was the fact that Deke was still basically a slave himself.  Which makes it a grayer (much grayer) area. Not necessarily more palatable, but more complicated. 

But honestly, I'm baffled that there are Daisy/Deke shippers, considering what happened in the future.  And if you get past that - if someone likes Deke at all - why would they want him with Daisy? Most guys Daisy falls for usually end up dead or otherwise unavailable at the end of an arc.  Right now Deke has a massive crush on Daisy (which is okay played for laughs) that is not reciprocated at all.  The most I'd ever expect (or want) is that they eventually become friendly-ish, as well as comrades in arms. 

 

They are basically setting up one of those, Unrequited Love Tropes that they did with Fitz and Simmons (at first) then they will move into the Will They/Won't They Trope, IMO. Because this is pretty much how I see the writing on the show. Why else have Deke bring this up and what purpose was it for him to say those things?  And as with his fate, he has a better chance of surviving all of this because he is a Fitz and Simmons easter egg, IMO. Sadly they probably will keep him around longer if there is a 6th Season and not have him fade away and/or die. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by TVSpectator

[tessaray]

Deke making it past this season is something I don't want to even think about.  

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, tessaray said:

When Coulson told Talbot that they had gone into the future, a future where humanity was enslaved by the Kree - I felt a little better because that aligned with what I felt was the fact that Deke was still basically a slave himself.  Which makes it a grayer (much grayer) area. Not necessarily more palatable, but more complicated. 

But honestly, I'm baffled that there are Daisy/Deke shippers, considering what happened in the future.  And if you get past that - if someone likes Deke at all - why would they want him with Daisy? Most guys Daisy falls for usually end up dead or otherwise unavailable at the end of an arc.  Right now Deke has a massive crush on Daisy (which is okay played for laughs) that is not reciprocated at all.  The most I'd ever expect (or want) is that they eventually become friendly-ish, as well as comrades in arms. 

I'm not sure why it's a surprise that Deke/Daisy have fans. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the seething hate he receives here. Also surprised how many state that Daisy does not reciprocate Dekes feelings at all when IMO she does.

Not everyone is going to agree with the Deke hating points. Others will see the characters positive actions far outweigh one bad thing he did.

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, Proteus said:

I'm not sure why it's a surprise that Deke/Daisy have fans. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the seething hate he receives here. Also surprised how many state that Daisy does not reciprocate Dekes feelings at all when IMO she does.

Not everyone is going to agree with the Deke hating points. Others will see the characters positive actions far outweigh one bad thing he did.

Out of curiosity, because I don't see it myself, how does Daisy share feelings for Deke, exactly? All I've seen is her annoyance at him and the most friendly interaction they've had, Daisy has treated Deke as more of a co-worker, at best. I mean, yeah, they're probably setting up for some sort of romance down the line, if Deke makes it past this season and if the series gets renewed, and I personally am not a huge fan of Deke but I also don't hate him either, but Daisy hasn't reciprocated Deke's feelings as of this episode in any way. Working with him is not the same as reciprocating his feelings. She may very well have gotten past the slavery stuff, or at least doesn't use it against him anymore, but that doesn't translate into romantic feelings. 

Plus, having watched a lot of TV, when TV shows showcase a reciprocated romance, there's usually specific camera angles on both ends and other tiny stuff that indicate where it's going. From Daisy, I haven't seen those moments. There hasn't been any romantic tension moments. Though, to be fair, there also haven't been those moments with Coulson and May until last season, and Fitz/Simmons certainly came out of nowhere by the season 1 finale, and even then, I wouldn't say Simmons had feelings for Fitz until late season 3, when the show decided to slap them together. 

[Proteus]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Out of curiosity, because I don't see it myself, how does Daisy share feelings for Deke, exactly? All I've seen is her annoyance at him and the most friendly interaction they've had, Daisy has treated Deke as more of a co-worker, at best. I mean, yeah, they're probably setting up for some sort of romance down the line, if Deke makes it past this season and if the series gets renewed, and I personally am not a huge fan of Deke but I also don't hate him either, but Daisy hasn't reciprocated Deke's feelings as of this episode in any way. Working with him is not the same as reciprocating his feelings. She may very well have gotten past the slavery stuff, or at least doesn't use it against him anymore, but that doesn't translate into romantic feelings. 

Plus, having watched a lot of TV, when TV shows showcase a reciprocated romance, there's usually specific camera angles on both ends and other tiny stuff that indicate where it's going. From Daisy, I haven't seen those moments. There hasn't been any romantic tension moments. Though, to be fair, there also haven't been those moments with Coulson and May until last season, and Fitz/Simmons certainly came out of nowhere by the season 1 finale, and even then, I wouldn't say Simmons had feelings for Fitz until late season 3, when the show decided to slap them together. 

No one here is going to agree with me on Daisy and Deke and I'm not going to agree with anyone either. So it's best to just agree to disagree at this point.

[tessaray]

10 hours ago, Proteus said:

I'm not sure why it's a surprise that Deke/Daisy have fans. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the seething hate he receives here. Also surprised how many state that Daisy does not reciprocate Dekes feelings at all when IMO she does.

Not everyone is going to agree with the Deke hating points. Others will see the characters positive actions far outweigh one bad thing he did.

I don't hate Deke at all.  If the actor had been written in as a different character (or stayed his original charming low level criminal self), I would have been fine with him.  I'll even grant that the actors have some on-screen chemistry. But the writing and plotting has been all over the place and Deke is the face of it.  So he gets the brunt of the dissatisfaction. 

Considering the way AoS likes to match couples up, D/D makes about as much sense as anything else.  But at the moment, all I see is Daisy treating Deke like an irritating child, which doesn't scream romance to me.  If they are leaving clues for it, I need to get new glasses. :-)    

[CooperTV]

It seems like after coming back from the future the show is just spinning its wheels. I thought the beginning of the season was exciting, and the second half had it moments but now it's just set-back after set-back to the finale result of the future happening exactly like it had happened all other times in this time loop.

[Gothish520]

15 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Well, if Fitz doesn't want forgiveness then let's lock him up okay. As with what he did, it wasn't right and really all he had to do was to just ask Daisy if he can restore her powers and explain why. 

Daisy wouldn't listen, she never listens to anyone. I thought they did ask her?

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

No one here is going to agree with me on Daisy and Deke and I'm not going to agree with anyone either. So it's best to just agree to disagree at this point.

I'm all for Deke and Daisy getting together.

11 hours ago, Proteus said:

I'm not sure why it's a surprise that Deke/Daisy have fans. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the seething hate he receives here. Also surprised how many state that Daisy does not reciprocate Dekes feelings at all when IMO she does.

Not everyone is going to agree with the Deke hating points. Others will see the characters positive actions far outweigh one bad thing he did.

100%

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Daisy wouldn't listen, she never listens to anyone. I thought they did ask her?

Daisy said that she didn't want her powers back if that meant destroying the world, but that was even before they got back from space. Fitz never tried to explain why he needed her to have her powers back to close the rift that also might have destroyed at least the town they've been in. His subconscious knew it was wrong since he split his mind to even go through all of these lengths to get it to happen, and Daisy chose to not have her powers back. Even when Jemma was trying to find a way to surgically remove the implant herself, Daisy said no. At the end of the day, it is her choice and Fitz still took the choice away by force, even with the risks involved in harming her further. The ends still don't justify the means, in Daisy's case. Her reasoning for not wanting her powers back makes perfect sense, but she wasn't given the full story before Fitz tore the implant out of her. 

[Jack Kerouac]

On 4/14/2018 at 12:47 PM, kitlee625 said:

I wasn't surprised that the writers handwaved the Fitzler thing, but I was disappointed. I agree that I find that more egregious than what Deke did, and yet neither Deke nor Fitz are going to be facing any consequences. 

But exactly what consequences should he face? SHIELD is not a law enforcement agency - SHIELD is nothing. It has no enforcement powers and legally, they can't do anything to Fitz except turn him into the cops, which they won't do because they are all criminals. If I was Fitz, I would consider Daisy and I even, considering my actions did save the city above the lighthouse and potentially the world and Daisy did 'quake' me when she was part of Hive and I did keep her from being locked up forever as a guinea pig when she first got her powers. Any one of those would make us even.

Then again, logic doesn't mean anything in this show any more. Apparently Daisy is more of a successor than Mack or May, even though she has ZERO SHIELD training except from a traitor and a little from May. As far as we can see, she has no tactical training, has gone AWOL and rogue so many times it's had to count ... eh, I can't keep going as it's making me mad.

As for this episode, they really need to get a better actress than Dove Cameron. She's nice to look at, but the girl can't act her way out of a wet paper bag. Also, Fitz and Simmons are pretty smart - are you telling me they didn't consider that although they might not be able to be killed, they are still able to be captured? Really?

I'm hoping next season (if there is one) will be better,

[Gothish520]

44 minutes ago, Jack Kerouac said:

But exactly what consequences should he face? SHIELD is not a law enforcement agency - SHIELD is nothing. It has no enforcement powers and legally, they can't do anything to Fitz except turn him into the cops, which they won't do because they are all criminals. If I was Fitz, I would consider Daisy and I even, considering my actions did save the city above the lighthouse and potentially the world and Daisy did 'quake' me when she was part of Hive and I did keep her from being locked up forever as a guinea pig when she first got her powers. Any one of those would make us even.

Then again, logic doesn't mean anything in this show any more. Apparently Daisy is more of a successor than Mack or May, even though she has ZERO SHIELD training except from a traitor and a little from May. As far as we can see, she has no tactical training, has gone AWOL and rogue so many times it's had to count ... eh, I can't keep going as it's making me mad.

As for this episode, they really need to get a better actress than Dove Cameron. She's nice to look at, but the girl can't act her way out of a wet paper bag. Also, Fitz and Simmons are pretty smart - are you telling me they didn't consider that although they might not be able to be killed, they are still able to be captured? Really?

I'm hoping next season (if there is one) will be better,

I agree - laws, rules, and SOPs don't really apply in SHIELD's world.

I'm ok with Dove's performance as I think it suits the character. 

I'm still enjoying the show immensely and hoping for another season.

[kitlee625]

4 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

But exactly what consequences should he face? SHIELD is not a law enforcement agency - SHIELD is nothing. It has no enforcement powers and legally, they can't do anything to Fitz except turn him into the cops, which they won't do because they are all criminals. If I was Fitz, I would consider Daisy and I even, considering my actions did save the city above the lighthouse and potentially the world and Daisy did 'quake' me when she was part of Hive and I did keep her from being locked up forever as a guinea pig when she first got her powers. Any one of those would make us even.

Well, I agree that this is the biggest problem with the show, which is that SHIELD as an organization makes no sense. They can't decide whether they are a large, government sanctioned institution or a group of a handful of renegades.

 

That being said, when I said consequences, I wasn't referring to any punishment for Fitz actually. I was referring to how the writers are treating him. The writers seem to have dropped the whole concept of him being psychologically damaged and having a split personality, and he's back to normal Fitz. All of the other characters are acting as if Fitz's behavior was nothing out of the ordinary. They act like he made a difficult but necessary decision. 

 

Like I said, I wasn't surprised that the writers decided that after holding the team hostage and going all Evil Fitz, Fitz would be back to his normal, not-hallucinating self. But I wish that the writers hadn't dropped it so quickly to return to the status quo.

[Bubbles]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Daisy said that she didn't want her powers back if that meant destroying the world, but that was even before they got back from space. Fitz never tried to explain why he needed her to have her powers back to close the rift that also might have destroyed at least the town they've been in

The only reason she even came back from space is because Coulson incapacitated her and brought her back against her will. I'm not excusing Fitz, but I really doubt that if he'd explained it to her she'd have said "oh, well ok then." I also find it interesting that Fitz and Deke are mostly considered unforgivable around these parts but Coulson basically kidnapping Daisy goes unmentioned. 

[Froippi]

9 minutes ago, Bubbles said:

The only reason she even came back from space is because Coulson incapacitated her and brought her back against her will. I'm not excusing Fitz, but I really doubt that if he'd explained it to her she'd have said "oh, well ok then." I also find it interesting that Fitz and Deke are mostly considered unforgivable around these parts but Coulson basically kidnapping Daisy goes unmentioned. 

Coulson not exactly the best person for making decisions this season either so no surprise their a lot of members this season our making very questionable decisions

[TVSpectator]

21 hours ago, tessaray said:

Deke making it past this season is something I don't want to even think about.  

Yeah, I really don't want him to be in the next season at all (honestly I kind of just want him to cease to exist. If it means that Fitz and Simmons have to die then I am for it- just so Deke doesn't exist. Well, that and I never liked the Fitz and Simmons relationship because I felt that the writers totally screwed it up in the earlier seasons and now the writes, IMO, have ruined both characters for me. I can' really look past Simmons wanting to leave someone on an alien planet that she believed was still struggling to stay alive (which is basically close to murder, IMO)  and also for what she is doing in last Season and also in this season. And Fitz for clearly helping to cause all the LMDs/Framework problems because he decided to hide AIDA and also for what he did to Daisy this season). 

20 hours ago, Proteus said:

I'm not sure why it's a surprise that Deke/Daisy have fans. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at the seething hate he receives here. Also surprised how many state that Daisy does not reciprocate Dekes feelings at all when IMO she does.

Not everyone is going to agree with the Deke hating points. Others will see the characters positive actions far outweigh one bad thing he did.

What positive actions does Deke have? He worked with the Kree that murdered his own mother, he runs a bar using Framework tech with Kree approval, he nearly got the entire last remnants of humanity killed, and he sold Daisy into slavery. Also, he decided to follow his grandparents on a suicide mission and was part of the group that helped locked up Mack and freed Fitz (who we just learned has a split personality issue with his evil Fitzler self and he tortured Daisy). Any charms/nice looking smile he has is basically akin, IMO, to what Ward has once he was revealed to be Hydra.  The only real difference, IMO, is that a) he isn't Hydar (or at least he hasn't been revealed as a Hydra member just yet) and b) he is related to Fitz and Simmons. That is pretty much all he has going for him in the positive. 

9 hours ago, tessaray said:

I don't hate Deke at all.  If the actor had been written in as a different character (or stayed his original charming low level criminal self), I would have been fine with him.  I'll even grant that the actors have some on-screen chemistry. But the writing and plotting has been all over the place and Deke is the face of it.  So he gets the brunt of the dissatisfaction. 

Considering the way AoS likes to match couples up, D/D makes about as much sense as anything else.  But at the moment, all I see is Daisy treating Deke like an irritating child, which doesn't scream romance to me.  If they are leaving clues for it, I need to get new glasses. :-)    

For me, it's just the way I believe that the writing is on this show. This is also sometimes how they end up pairing people and/or start a "romance" relationship on the show. Look, In season 1 Fitz had literally no feelings for Simmons until like late Season 1 where he secretly told Daisy (at the time going by the name "Skye") that he was in love with Simmons, then in Season 2 and onward it became about Simmons rejecting Fitz, and then for some reason by the end of Season 3 they decided to pair up Simmons and Fitz with one giant (TAKE ME NOW FITZS! from Simmons) because the writing just decided to not be in any way subtle about it, IMO. Not to mention the whole, "I LOVE MAY" from Coulson last season and now May is like, "I LOVE YOU" to Coulson. 

 

Also, if they are not planning on the whole "unrequited love" thing for Deke and Daisy why in hell would they even bother having Deke say that in the first place? I know it's tone deaf but, IMO, it's not too far of a stretch to think that the writing is going down this road (again).

7 hours ago, Jack Kerouac said:

But exactly what consequences should he face? SHIELD is not a law enforcement agency - SHIELD is nothing. It has no enforcement powers and legally, they can't do anything to Fitz except turn him into the cops, which they won't do because they are all criminals. If I was Fitz, I would consider Daisy and I even, considering my actions did save the city above the lighthouse and potentially the world and Daisy did 'quake' me when she was part of Hive and I did keep her from being locked up forever as a guinea pig when she first got her powers. Any one of those would make us even.

Then again, logic doesn't mean anything in this show any more. Apparently Daisy is more of a successor than Mack or May, even though she has ZERO SHIELD training except from a traitor and a little from May. As far as we can see, she has no tactical training, has gone AWOL and rogue so many times it's had to count ... eh, I can't keep going as it's making me mad.

As for this episode, they really need to get a better actress than Dove Cameron. She's nice to look at, but the girl can't act her way out of a wet paper bag. Also, Fitz and Simmons are pretty smart - are you telling me they didn't consider that although they might not be able to be killed, they are still able to be captured? Really?

I'm hoping next season (if there is one) will be better,

In my opinion, they haven't really figured out what they want SHIELD to be. But if they are supposed to be the ones protecting the world and/or stopping Hydra then they have to lock Fitz up because he can just have another split moment where he snaps back into Dr. Hydra-Scottish-Mengele-Fitzler personality and actually does some serious harm to innocent people. Hell, for all we know Fitz goes into his alternative ego because Simmons trips on the sidewalk and/or someone accidentally bumps into her. Then what? Some innocent dude dies because SHIELD decided to just let him go? 

 

2 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

That being said, when I said consequences, I wasn't referring to any punishment for Fitz actually. I was referring to how the writers are treating him. The writers seem to have dropped the whole concept of him being psychologically damaged and having a split personality, and he's back to normal Fitz. All of the other characters are acting as if Fitz's behavior was nothing out of the ordinary. They act like he made a difficult but necessary decision. 

 

Like I said, I wasn't surprised that the writers decided that after holding the team hostage and going all Evil Fitz, Fitz would be back to his normal, not-hallucinating self. But I wish that the writers hadn't dropped it so quickly to return to the status quo.

 

I agree and this is how I also feel about the writing on this show. When I say I want to see consequences I want to see something come out of this and not the writers just dropping these issues. 

 

I also do refer to the way the writers are continuously treating Fitz (well, IMO, everyone at this point- including Deke) as like what they did was nothing and/or not harmful/serious at all. There are so many examples on this show where the writing is just so, IMO, fine with about everything they do. I just want something that comes from this and not "well, Fitz is now going to be walking away from this and gets to be with Simmons" and/or "Simmons is rationalizing it as nothing, etc..." At least having him lock up is a start, IMO, but of course they had him being broken out of prison (not once but twice this season)- so again, they are just treating this like Fitz is some kind of vitcim here, IMO (which is another thing as well but that, IMO is another issue). 

Edited April 18, 2018 by TVSpectator

[CaptainTightpants]

5 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Also, if they are not planning on the whole "unrequited love" thing for Deke and Daisy why in hell would they even bother having Deke say that in the first place?

I honestly don't know how this would work though, keeping Deke in the present timeline is perilous. Deke is a time displaced person from nearly a century in the future. The potential for him to screw up the timeline in the present is enormous. Especially if he sticks around to hang with gramps and grammy Fitzsimmons. He can babysit his mother when she is born, and if he hangs around long enough he can meet himself. Anyone who has watched Dr. Who knows that is a world-ending paradox waiting to happen. 

This is why I dislike time travel plotlines (despite my love of time travel stories in general). So few shows do them well, and they just gloss over the obvious paradox issues.