S06.E03: Urban Transport Planning

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought Henry was on scholarship?

So it looks like the travel agency is in trouble--2 weeks after we learn it's booming. (Although it may actually be more of a cash flow problem, which I only mostly understand because it was an effective story on Mad Men. The story was actually interesting to me on Mad Men.) This is upsetting only because omg it's boring and cringeworthy to watch. I have how many episodes left to spend with Philip and you're forcing me to watch him be Michael Scott? He's officially only interesting in scenes here he's poking around Elizabeth's work. And he's still going to EST/The Forum? Please don't make me sit through more of that too. It's been like 5 years, I think Philip should be able to speak about emotion without always referring to EST.

Clearly they actually are committed to a "capitalism is hard" storyline for Philip and unless that's going to drive him back to his spywork very quickly (even if only for the money) I am not looking forward to it. I'm guessing he'll be telling Henry he might have to drop out of the school, which will force him back home for the finale, and make me wonder why they gave Henry the full scholarship thing last season. What, did Henry also struggle with school the way Philip is now? Did he lose his scholarship?

When Philip was talking to that employee of Henry's school in this episode, he said that the scholarship helps, but they still don't have enough money to make their usual payment. It sounds like it isn't a full scholarship.

[NitneLiun]

1 hour ago, Lily H said:

If I were Stan, I would have really, really wanted to punch Sophia right in the mouth and wipe that smugness off her face. It would be infuriating to have to deal with such a stupid and stubborn woman. I was hoping they would arrange for her to have an "accident".

Loved the scene with the guy spilling his guts to Elizabeth about security lapses. How very easy it was to find out everything they needed to know. And then he made the fateful mistake of mentioning his girlfriend in Security. So close to getting out of there alive.

Paige is so not cut out for spying. Every time she said "I get it" when Elizabeth was berating her, I thought, "No, I don't really think you do". And I don't think Elizabeth even brought up Paige's worst mistake. Running towards the gunshots was bad enough, but screeching "Mom! Mom!" was beyond stupid and after all this supposed training, you'd think she'd know better.

Sophia and Gennady are both meatheads.  IRL, the FBI would probably just let them twist in the wind, as they produced no actionable intelligence and were pains in the ass.

Stan must have told Gennady he has a certificate in marriage counseling, because Gennady sure seem to think Stan has all the answers to his marital problems.  

[Trillian]

6 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Would she have believed him though? Philip’s views were pure Philip. Agreeing with her would’ve been weird imo. 

I think Philip showed he was trying when he took a bite, when already stuffed. The bigger problem was he predictably disagreed with her. But it was predictable. 

But it was Chinese food. He only had to wait an hour....

[Ina123]

They can't have leftover Russian food in the privacy of their own fridge but she can carry it in her purse across town? And, besides that, who would trust the container not to leak all over the inside of her purse? It's 1987 and despite all the hoopla at Tupperware parties, they did leak if carried on their side, especially if they had been used a lot.

[Chaos Theory]

My guess is that Philip and Elizabeth despite their moral and ethical quandaries have always worked better as a team.  When they go off in different directions their worst instincts start to come out.  Elizabeth hard line pathos and Philip and his American Dream without the understanding of its building blocks.  

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I never EVER bought that the KGB would let Philip "retire" without being dead, and I still don't.  That's the most unbelievable part of all of this for me, really.  Philip and the Pastor couple?   Would all be dead.  Period.

That would probably be true except for Elizabeth and The KGB wanting to enlist Paige.  If Elizabeth didn’t care about Philip he would have had an accident.  As for Pastor Tim i bought him as a big inconvenience for the Jennings.  He knew just enough and had just enough on them but they couldn’t kill him without losing Paige.  

Edited April 12, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[zibnchy]

First of all, I refuse to believe Claudia let Elizabeth walk out of the safe house with leftovers. Then there was only about 5 bites. Phillip could have eaten it. He didn't want to.

Stan's shocked face when Sophia told him she told Bogdan about them was the same as his "I'm holding in a fart" face. We've seen that fart face a LOT in 6 seasons.

They literally got nothing from 3 YEARS of fake pooping and x-raying BUT they saved moronic Sophia and Gennady but left Nina to die? Didn't the russian accompanying Gennady ever get suspicious that he had to poop every single time they passed that particular bathroom? What a coincidence! Too much cabbage on the plane I guess.

[Bannon]

Again, it is just dumb to portray a dish, made with diced beef, vegetables, garlic, and herbs, as being a signifier of Russian heritage, and thus forbidden from the Jennings' fridge. Millions of Americans have this oh-so-exotic peasant food all the time, except they call it "beef stew".  I made it last week, yet managed to avoid being compelled to engage in Russian folk dance afterwords (face palm).

[sas616]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

I unfortunately was joking when I asked last week if the writers had given Liz a quota of one schlub to be murdered at the end of each episode. Sadly, it appears they have. Lemme see....we have murdered naval security personnel near the Naval Observatory, a murdered Air Force general, pretty obviously dressed up as a suicide, and now a warehouse manager handling classified technology murdered in a hotel room. Good grief, that is lame, and as good as Russell has been on this show, these writers are asking her to be the Golden Gate Bridge of suspending disbelief.

It also still seems pretty strange for Phil to be happily retired from espionage, as his daughter wades in deeper week after week.

Finally, somebody oughta tell Liz that millions of Americans eat and enjoy a stew made with beef, vegetables and herbs, so a Tupperware container of it in the fridge won't tip anybody off.

Who goes into that fridge anyway?   Aren't Philip and Elizabeth the only ones living in the house now?  

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, sas616 said:

Who goes into that fridge anyway?   Aren't Philip and Elizabeth the only ones living in the house now?  

Well, ya' know, on about the 83rd time a police sketch artist draws a likeness of Liz in a wig, after she checks into a hotel to strangle a schlub with access to classified technology, the light bulb will come on for Stan, and when he goes to get the milk out one night, when he is over for dinner, he'll see some Tupperware with beef stew in it, and his inner voice will scream "KGB ILLEGAL!!!".

15 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Is this the way it is going to be for the final season?  Elizabeth killing someone at the end of each episode?  Will her last killing be Philip?

Interesting book Philip took off of the shelf.  I suppose Elizabeth would have never allowed "The Power of Positive Thinking" to ever rest on any of their bookshelves.

She's really gonna snap one night, after reading the Washington Post, and get caught when she drives to a Pizza Hut, and strangles everybody in the joint.

[SunnyBeBe]

7 hours ago, jjj said:

Why did Stan and the FBI have to offer "asylum" to Sofia and Gennady publicly?  I assumed that "we hear you requested asylum" was a prearranged code for "all is known, come with us or die".  And I know they had to pick up Gennady in the airport.  But why make Sofia's capture so public?  And these days, what kind of shit would an elementary school give to two apparent FBI agents wanting to whisk off a small child?  (Even back in 1987,  just the badges might not have been convincing enough.) 

And there was a tiny, tiny head shake from Sofia's new love interest in the office when the FBI stood there and said "do you want asylum?". 

I didn't understand why there had to be a public announcement that they had requested asylum either.  It would seem that there are so many other options that would have worked better. But, I didn't really care about that couple.  Poor kid though.  I'm not sure if Stan has thought this through, but, Sofia has loose lips.  She will always be that way.  So, no matter where they send her, she's going to blab.  So, she'll never be safe. You know the saying, "Wherever you go, there you are."  lol 

I got a little fed up last night. I mean really......omg...just a lot of stuff that to me was ridiculous. And I agree about it almost like they were trying to punk the viewers, make us laugh...IDK.  Just bizarre. Like, Renee's silly comments about thanking Stan for being nice to her and listening to her.  What crap....who talks that way. It seemed so odd and unnatural.  Like a script from some bad play.  And then, she pops up and wants to be an FBI agent when she grows up. How precious is that?  PLEASE.  I did actually LOL.  I can't even begin to wonder why she would say that. It's almost insulting to spies to think she is one now. 

Then there was the pathetic uncomfortable motivational speech by Philip at his office. Cringe worthy.  Is this his future? Will he become a motivational speaker and tour the country? As smart as he is, certainly, he can FIX the cash flow problem.

When Philip refused the food, I thought, Hey....did Russians poison much back then? I can see why he might have hesitated. lol I sense he thinks E has really gone off the deep end. 

Can someone explain why E killed the guy in the hotel AFTER she found out he knew Tracy in security? Was it because he was then known to be a risk and would tell her?  I would assume that E called for help to remove the body and his car, so, it appears he disappeared.  Still, won't Tracy get suspicious with a missing boyfriend?  But, they probably shouldn't have been dating anyway, right? 

Not wild about this one. I hope it can be salvaged. 

[benteen]

Definitely an improvement over last week, thanks to the excellent Stan/Oleg scene and the scene where Philip tells Elizabeth she hasn't really spoken to anyone from Russia in decades (it was nice to finally hear someone point that out to her).

That being said, I read before the season began that the first three episodes were methodically paced and I definitely agree with that assessment.  This is the final season and only 10 episodes this show...enough with the slow burn.  I think (hope) next week things will pick up.

I find the whole plot with the estranged Russian couple to be confusing and uninteresting.  Sophia (is that her name) is a real moron and has already proven she can't be trusted to keep secrets.

Remember, the KGB chose Paige over Elizabeth to be a next generation spy.  That's like when the Blazers chose Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan in the NBA draft.  Interestingly enough, both of those things occurred in 1984!

Elizabeth's weekly murders are becoming almost cartoonish.

On the subject of Philip's retirement, based on the conversation that he and Elizabeth had at the end of last season, he wasn't supposed to be fully retired.  The plan was for him to keep working the Kimmie mission, since her father got that promotion into a vital area the KGB couldn't get into before.  Is that mission now over and if so, are we ever going to get another mention of it again?  I thought that because Philip had landed that big piece of intel and would still be working that mission, as well as letting Paige become a (shitty) next generation spy, that would have been enough to have allowed Philip to mostly retire.  Not to mention it would keep Elizabeth happy and still maintain a front for her own activities.

Edited April 12, 2018 by benteen

[JFParnell]

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

Finally, somebody oughta tell Liz that millions of Americans eat and enjoy a stew made with beef, vegetables and herbs, so a Tupperware container of it in the fridge won't tip anybody off.

I felt kind of eye-roll-y about that as well. Who even visits them? Stan, maybe -- super G-MAN Stan! -- but like HE'D ever notice. He'd just push aside the Tupperware and fish out a beer from the fridge.  Plus its wasting food, Elizabeth! Did you do that as a hungry child in the Soviet Union??!

[SunnyBeBe]

I kind of get throwing the food away as a precaution.  I mean, in case they are raided. Recall how the FBI strained the ice cubes at Martha's apt.  So, a full sweep for evidence likely would have picked up on the special Russian treat. 

[Chaos Theory]

44 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Again, it is just dumb to portray a dish, made with diced beef, vegetables, garlic, and herbs, as being a signifier of Russian heritage, and thus forbidden from the Jennings' fridge. Millions of Americans have this oh-so-exotic peasant food all the time, except they call it "beef stew".  I made it last week, yet managed to avoid being compelled to engage in Russian folk dance afterwords (face palm).

I think it’s a weird little quirk to their paranoia.  Elizabeth could follow a mark to a Russian Novelty Restaurant or whatever and then be that person who feins indifference and orders a steak or salad.  

[Blakeston]

18 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Can someone explain why E killed the guy in the hotel AFTER she found out he knew Tracy in security? Was it because he was then known to be a risk and would tell her?

 

I think that's it. He would be very likely to say something to his girlfriend, and she'd immediately know that it wasn't kosher.

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think Renee works for Russia.  I think she works for Stan's bosses.  Given the crap Stan pulled to save Oleg, those bosses can't just let that go.  They can't let anyone else pull that shit.

I can't see the FBI convincing an employee to marry another employee, and live (and have sex with him) for years.

[JFParnell]

I actually said out loud, "just let somebody live for once, Lizzie!" when she grabbed poor security slob. Maybe a sleeper hold! (You know that magical move so many TV characters employ? Where you just sort of choke-hold someone to sleep until you can finish the scene, or rob the vault or do whatever it is the script needs you to do.) But, sigh, nope -- just another corpse for Elizabeth. She's gone full Walter White.

[Trillian]

41 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Again, it is just dumb to portray a dish, made with diced beef, vegetables, garlic, and herbs, as being a signifier of Russian heritage, and thus forbidden from the Jennings' fridge. Millions of Americans have this oh-so-exotic peasant food all the time, except they call it "beef stew".  I made it last week, yet managed to avoid being compelled to engage in Russian folk dance afterwords (face palm).

I had read an advance review of this episode that talked about the cooking session, so I decided to make Zharkoye for supper last night.  Maybe I did it wrong (I had never made it - or even heard of it - before, but I compared about a dozen recipes on the internet to try to get it as authentic as possible) but it looks just like beef stew.  Tastes like the most delicious beef stew ever, but doesn't look unusual. Even if Stan rifled through their refrigerator (possible), he isn't going to note it's a Russian dish.  And even if he did, he isn't going to jump to the conclusion that they are Soviet spies.  Elizabeth experimented with Korean cooking, and that wasn't an issue.  For that matter, China is a Communist country, and Philip was eating Chinese food!

The scene does show, I think, how incredibly careful with detail Elizabeth and Philip have to be.  They were told to leave their Russian selves behind so that they would never ever slip.  Except when Elizabeth was shot and when they got married - both intensely intimate moments - they never speak Russian to each other.  They never cook Russian food, even though Russian food is not inherently suspicious. We have seen them enjoy Russian food when in a safehouse - Gabriel used to cook for them too - when they can relax their cover a bit.  The food represents their former identities.  When Philip rejected it, Elizabeth probably took it as a rejection, not only of her love offering, but of that Russian identity.

[shura]

And even if someone were to identify the stew as Russian, so what? Can't she have some leftovers from a Russian restaurant? Maybe that restaurant (and even that dish, for that matter) one of the US negotiators was talking about. How is having stew in the house a big no-no, but Paige reading espionage manuals during a stakeout is not a big deal? 'Cause I am assuming that's what she was reading there.

Speaking of the negotiators, the young Russian guy who said he would go watch baseball is the one Elizabeth is watching, right? The one Gorbachev purportedly instructed to trade Dead Hand for SDI? It must have sounded super suspicious to her when he said it.

22 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Can someone explain why E killed the guy in the hotel AFTER she found out he knew Tracy in security? Was it because he was then known to be a risk and would tell her?  I would assume that E called for help to remove the body and his car, so, it appears he disappeared.  Still, won't Tracy get suspicious with a missing boyfriend?  But, they probably shouldn't have been dating anyway, right? 

I didn't quite get that either. I think he said he had already told his girlfriend, her being in security and all, and she must have talked to the auditing firm already anyway, something like that. Then Elizabeth made sure to take her name and bam! But doesn't that mean she now has to kill Tracy too? And that is not going to make getting into that warehouse more difficult?

[Bannon]

18 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

I actually said out loud, "just let somebody live for once, Lizzie!" when she grabbed poor security slob. Maybe a sleeper hold! (You know that magical move so many TV characters employ? Where you just sort of choke-hold someone to sleep until you can finish the scene, or rob the vault or do whatever it is the script needs you to do.) But, sigh, nope -- just another corpse for Elizabeth. She's gone full Walter White.

Hell, maybe Tony Montana. I half expect the show to end now as 4 FBI SWAT teams, and the 1st Marine Division, surround the Jennings abode, as Liz, with bandoliers wrapped around her torso, RPG launcher in hand, screams, "Say Здравствуйте to my leetle friend!!!!!". With revolutionary fervor, instead of a two foot high pile of cocaine, supplying the motivation.

(Edit) I agree with a thought expressed in this thread that the writers may be just trolling the audience now. I picture them in meetings, laughing out loud, saying "Now let's have Liz (insert homicidal action)! HA!HA!HA!".

Edited April 12, 2018 by Bannon

[SunnyBeBe]

9 minutes ago, shura said:

And even if someone were to identify the stew as Russian, so what? Can't she have some leftovers from a Russian restaurant? Maybe that restaurant (and even that dish, for that matter) one of the US negotiators was talking about. How is having stew in the house a big no-no, but Paige reading espionage manuals during a stakeout is not a big deal? 'Cause I am assuming that's what she was reading there.

Speaking of the negotiators, the young Russian guy who said he would go watch baseball is the one Elizabeth is watching, right? The one Gorbachev purportedly instructed to trade Dead Hand for SDI? It must have sounded super suspicious to her when he said it.

I didn't quite get that either. I think he said he had already told his girlfriend, her being in security and all, and she must have talked to the auditing firm already anyway, something like that. Then Elizabeth made sure to take her name and bam! But doesn't that mean she now has to kill Tracy too? And that is not going to make getting into that warehouse more difficult?

Someone may have the exact wording, but, it was either, the girlfriend PROBABLY already knew about this audit OR he thought that girlfriend already knew about the audit. Fine distinction, but, I'm not sure.  I would think that if he told girlfriend that he was going for this audit interview, girlfriend would have told him NO, it's a scam.  

Edited April 12, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Bannon]

24 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

 

I can't see the FBI convincing an employee to marry another employee, and live (and have sex with him) for years.

After that ridiculous dialogue while doing the dishes, I don't think the Renee arc has any hope of being salvageable. Why the hell they spent the money to hire a recognizable actor like Laurie Holden for this is unfathomable.

[shura]

25 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Someone may have the exact wording, but, it was either, the girlfriend PROBABLY already knew about this audit OR he thought that girlfriend already knew about the audit. Fine distinction, but, I'm not sure.  I would think that if he told girlfriend that he was going for this audit interview, girlfriend would have told him NO, it's a scam.  

You are probably right, I didn't actually hear him say he'd told her, I just kind of filled in the blanks to try to make sense of the situation. Maybe Elizabeth was planning to kill him from the beginning, even before they sat down to talk? And now she has Tracy's name and is going to show up at her work to "investigate" her boyfriend's disappearance and then wander around the place and grab herself a detector? (My favorite line from Philip last night: "A radiation detector? What for?"  Um, to detect radiation?)

[RedHawk]

To be fair, our Liz was visibly struggling when she choked the warehouse guy and was completely winded when he finally gave up the ghost. She’s getting older and one thing we have never seen is Elizabeth and Philip doing physical training exercises to keep in the top shape they were in when they first arrived in America in their 20s. I felt that a big man like that would have fought harder and more desperately for his life, using his full body weight against his attacker. Eh, add him to Elizabeth’s sky-rocketing kill count. Good thing that Housekeeping didn’t knock on the door during the interview.

 

How do you solve a problem like Renee? When chatting with Henry, Stan said that as an agent he couldn’t trust anyone, not even his own wife, or Henry his young neighbor-pal. Yet now Renée’s ridiculous sudden desire to be an FBI agent doesn’t ring one tiny alarm bell? Sigh. I hope it actually does and he’s playing cool and preparing to do some background check on her — which makes me think, wouldn’t he have done one anyway prior to marriage?

I hope the financial problem with Henry’s school will indeed be an excuse to bring him home, probably quite sullen. Henry will enter the Jennings household with fresh eyes and likely pick up on a lot of things that obtuse Paige (supersmart spy!) just can’t see.

[SunnyBeBe]

I suspect Henry would be a very unhappy camper if he has to leave that school.  Plus, he's a senior now right? If so, he will be graduating in in the Spring.  Then college....oh my...that's even more expensive.  lol 

[Chaos Theory]

Time is moving away from Elizabeth and Philip like it does us all to a certain extent but worse.  I think when P&E were talking about Russia and Philip asked her how she knew what the people wanted that she hadn’t spoken to them in twenty years or something like that was an incredibly telling conversation.  Elizabeth is an old world Russian Hardliner who wouldn’t recognize Russia under Gorbachev.  Philip for all his Americanization has spent most of his life with one foot in both worlds but not really in either.  I am not sure he truly understands how to run a business much less a successful one without the backing of the KGB.    This is the guy who gave freebies to his friend to keep him on  the hook. He passes off big accounts to his underlings because it is probably what he has always done because his “other job” came first.  Philip likes the trappings of capitalism but not the work.  

Edited April 12, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[jjj]

16 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

 hope the financial problem with Henry’s school will indeed be an excuse to bring him home, probably quite sullen. Henry will enter the Jennings household with fresh eyes and likely pick up on a lot of things that obtuse Paige (supersmart spy!) just can’t see.

It sounded like the payment arrangement would get Henry through the current semester, so that will keep him there until the end of the show.  I can't figure out if Henry's minute of air time each week means anything, or whether it is just a swipe at telling us that the writers have not forgotten him. 

With the warehouse guy, I wondered why he had not said earlier that his girlfriend Theresa was in security.

It was a big spoiler that last week's preview showed Elizabeth killing him.  No suspense at all in that meeting, just waiting for the weekly kill. 

[RedHawk]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I suspect Henry would be a very unhappy camper if he has to leave that school.  Plus, he's a senior now right? If so, he will be graduating in in the Spring.  Then college....oh my...that's even more expensive.  lol 

I think he’s supposed to be four years younger than Paige so maybe he’s a junior this year. If this is his senior year it would indeed be very important that he apply to colleges and graduate from that school.

Can’t Phillip take out a home equity loan? I know that means having their credit and finances examined but they’ve been playing it legit with the travel agency for 20 years so that shouldn't be a big concern. It’s clear that he is hiding from Elizabeth that the travel agency isn’t doing well, which would be another stress on their marriage.  

[skippylou]

11 hours ago, Sader87 said:

Wouldn't Henry be a better potential asset to the Soviets down the line....ingratiating himself in American power circles etc by going to an elite prep school than Paige is? Just sayin'

Henry ain't recruitable.  

[attica]

39 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

What is the big deal, it is only food?

Except it's not only food. It's decades of discipline and protocol. You make an exception 'just this once' and tomorrow you're working for Stan and eating Hot Pockets. SLIPPERY SLOPE, PEOPLE!!!

(I wonder if there are any Russian restaurants nearby that deliver. Stew for lunch would be good!)

I admit I laughed with how high KR had to leap to get her arm around that dude's neck. Couldn't they have cast a shorter victim?

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

Elizabeth is just seething with rage at the USA at this point, and it comes out in her weekly murders of Americans. 

 

Yeah, it's a great metaphor. She's blaming the US for how she feels instead of looking internally and accepting that foreign countries are gonna foreign country. Also I thought it was interesting that she was seething about how angry she was just having to walk out Claudia's door back into the US when they were going back to Russia before she stopped them. She's no doubt resenting Philip for representing the US here but she's the one that actually needed to stay. They could have been having this Perestroika fight in Moscow!

9 hours ago, shura said:

He is not even claiming anything, really - he is telling her what he is reading in the papers. Elizabeth is the one whose point requires actually having been in contact with people back home. And she throws it in his face that he has not been in Russia in years and doesn't know what he is talking about?

Yeah, I thought that was significant too. Philip didn't claim to be speaking for people back home but Elizabeth very clearly did. Also it's nice that at the end of the episode Philip actually was speaking with somebody from back home--that is, from back home now rather than another Illegal who's been here for years. As Chaos Theory said above, it's not that Philip's American, it's that he's got a foot in both worlds. He's an outsider and an insider in both and it's always been that way. He never completely fits in.

9 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Why is it so hard for these people to stress the correct syllable with Russian words? I'm not asking for soft and hard Ls, but jeez, it's not OH-leg, it's o-LEG. (Although what was worse was Ar-KAH-dy being ARK-ady last episode.) It was Golubtsiy that got me this episode. It's gu-loop-TSIY, not gu-LOOP-tsiy.

 

Every single one of my instincts about how to pronounce Russian words is wrong so I'm not surprised. (I swear I've been known to get the stress wrong in words with only one syllable.) None of this would apply to Elizabeth and Claudia, of course. In fact, the two of them would probably be intentionally peppering their conversation with Russian phrases if they're trying to get her into the whole spirit of the thing. But nobody wants to hear that. But just in general yes, in my experience the American instinct at stress is always wrong. (Obvious examples: babYSHka or BAba YAga, EYE-van.) It's a shame with Oleg, though, because his name is so much nicer-sounding when pronounced correctly. 

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its to the point where it almost seems like more of a coping method,

It's like Gabriel said about his past during the Purges--he told himself he was setting a good example but he was really acting out of fear. Here Elizabeth even connected her faith in the Cause to her not being afraid. She can't let a single crack show, can't let herself feel any of that. Gets overly defensive at the idea that kids in the USSR in the 80s might not totally agree with the 40-something lady in the US. Even her "Russian culture" classes just fill her with new rage.

10 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I just don't believe that Paige would want to become a Soviet spy. That whole thing is completely absurd. Hasn't Philip talked to her about why he quit? What made her decide she loves the Soviet Union (as it's collapsing)?

 

I do wonder what we're supposed to make of these classes because they really play like Paige is just a girl who likes the attention and bonding of these sessions rather than anyone who's developed a minimal interest in Russian culture. She's dutifully learning the mangled names of Russian dishes and watching movies and whatever, but the whole thing seems a little silly. Like there's no actual reason she needs to be exposed to these things. It's just like a shared delusion that they can remake her into someone who had the Russian childhood of Elizabeth's imagination. Like she's really one of them. I hope that causes conflict later. Like if Paige finds the dignity to consider asking to be loved as herself. She'd obviously be just as happy making stir fry vegetables in a wok. I wonder if she ever has the nerve to say she doesn't like something. It would probably cause a major problem. (Like Megan Draper not liking orange sherbet.)

5 hours ago, Lily H said:

I was hoping they would arrange for her to have an "accident".

LOL. If Elizabeth had been talking to her she would have been beheaded. Not ruling that out for next week. Elizabeth will totally be given the job of slaughtering those two. You know she will.

I also predict that  Philip will tell Henry he has to maybe leave school and Henry will get all ugly rich capitalist and act like going to public school is a fate worse than a Siberian prison camp. Thus again getting a lesson in the ugly side of capitalism and the American dream of your kids having it better than you did. Or else Henry will turn out to be like his father and help out. That's a part of Philip's childhood that's never been much focused on. (Psych--none of it's been focused on!)

Quote

Again, it is just dumb to portray a dish, made with diced beef, vegetables, garlic, and herbs, as being a signifier of Russian heritage, and thus forbidden from the Jennings' fridge. Millions of Americans have this oh-so-exotic peasant food all the time, except they call it "beef stew".  I made it last week, yet managed to avoid being compelled to engage in Russian folk dance afterwords (face palm).

It's kind of fitting for Elizabeth and Claudia, though. That they're so try-hard about the whole thing, desperate to act like it's super special when Paige could probably go to a Russian restaurant run by Russians and just order it. I always remember Claudia's pointing out that the super wheat thing they killed to get had a strain of Russian wheat in it, like that meant the US kinda stole it or that the Russians had kinda invented it because their wheat was superior. It makes them seem like they're over-compensating.

I mean, I totally buy them just having a rule of not having it in the house because they know it's Russian. But in general these lessons just seem that way.

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Can someone explain why E killed the guy in the hotel AFTER she found out he knew Tracy in security? Was it because he was then known to be a risk and would tell her?  I would assume that E called for help to remove the body and his car, so, it appears he disappeared.  Still, won't Tracy get suspicious with a missing boyfriend?  But, they probably shouldn't have been dating anyway, right? 

Too bad when they picked this guy out to target they didn't think to check into who he was dating. 

 

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I agree with this.  Philip is being "Americanized", and Elizabeth just can't have that.  He said he liked the food, but I don't think he did.  I have had to fake like food before, just to spare someone's feelings.    Oh, the pains I have endured.   The worst of it was a stew that looked like it was dredged out of a swamp.  It had sausage and kale in it.  *barf*

Poor Philip's always being accused of not liking Russian food--it would be great if part of the reason for that is that he grew up to poor to actually have memories of this stuff. I'll have to watch the scene again, but don't they start talking about Perestroika while he's eating it? I thought it was more just a metaphor for Philip's position in general, that he's "becoming Americanized" in the same way Russia is. That is, he doesn't need to revere all Russian food above all else.

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I suspect Henry would be a very unhappy camper if he has to leave that school.  Plus, he's a senior now right? If so, he will be graduating in in the Spring.  Then college....oh my...that's even more expensive.  lol 

 

No, I think he's a junior.

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It’s clear that he is hiding from Elizabeth that the travel agency isn’t doing well, which would be another stress on their marriage.  

What would be interesting is that we know Elizabeth doesn't actually care about the travel agency, but obviously she doesn't want it causing inconveniences in her home life. I wonder how she'd react to Henry having to come home and basically react to him as if he's just a big inconvenience.

[RedHawk]

14 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Time is moving away from Elizabeth and Philip like it does us all to a certain extent but worse.  I think when P&E were talking about Russia and Philip asked her how she knew what the people wanted that she hadn’t spoken to them in twenty years or something like that was an incredibly telling conversation.  Elizabeth is an old world Russian Hardliner who wouldn’t recognize Russia under Gorbachev.  Philip for all his Americanization has spent most of his life with one foot in both worlds but not really in either.  I am not sure he truly understands how to run a business much less a successful one without the backing of the KGB.    This is the guy who gave freebies to his friend to keep him on  the hook. He passes off big accounts to his underlings because it is probably what he has always done because his “other job” came first.  Philip likes the trappings of capitalism but not the work.  

Now I’m thinking more than I should about the travel agency.  I don’t want to because I prefer to just enjoy the show with some suspension of disbelief, although it’s difficult at times. Is the KGB backing the agency? In the beginning of course Philip and Elizabeth came to America with funds to start out on. We saw them in a very basic cheap motel room soon after they first arrived.

 

I’ve always assumed that the travel agency operated completely above board, maybe with beginning funding very indirectly from the KGB but afterward having no illicit connections whatsoever. There must be something in place where money could be laundered to them but I could see why Philip would not want to discuss it with Elizabeth, and certainly not Claudia, who he doesn’t trust or even like. 

Also, did Philip sell his bitchin’ Camaro? He better not, Henry should have car.

[teddysmom]

I see we're back to the exteriors of the house with 15 garages. 

I knew Stan's wife was going to say she wanted to be an FBI agent. I was yelling ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!? at the tv. She has to be a Russian plant.  Like first you're too old to just get started, second, you have to have specialized degrees in fields they need, you can't just be rando woman walking in saying "sign me up, where are the wigs?" 

How the hell did Elizabeth overpower that huge guy?  And if he was the only one she was talking to, why did his girlfriend Janice know about it?  Janice, she's just great!! And she's about to be on the market again! 

I wanted Stan to punch that wife so bad. What an idiot. 

Please tell me them having one little Tupperware container of Russian stew once in 20 years is not going to tip off the FBI.  That was idiotic. 

I loved Phillip telling Elizabeth, "who have you even talked to back home in 20 years? You have no idea what's going on".  I've been saying this for four seasons.  Elizabeth, Russia sucks. Big time. And as much as these countries say they hate us, they love our shit. TV, jeans, MTV, Pizza Hut, freedom,  actual grocery stores with food on the shelves, they eat it up with a spoon. 

Mark my words, Phillip is going to have to kill Elizabeth.   Or set her up.   This is not going to end well. 

[benteen]

Elizabeth complains about American stuff but she loves her closet full of boots...

[RedHawk]

9 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

bad when they picked this guy out to target they didn't think to check into who he was dating. 

Zing! Is this supposed to show us that Elizabeth is getting sloppy and the whole operation is falling apart? I actually thought when the Tracey conversation was happening that the big guy was testing Elizabeth and there was no actual Tracey at his company. He seemed to have this look on his face that at last he felt something was off about the whole situation, perhaps her stressing one too many times that he was not to speak to anyone about it. Perhaps she realized that he was suspicious and that’s why she killed him? 

Edited April 12, 2018 by RedHawk

[Bannon]

Compared to the whoppers in the show now it is a minor thing, but there is very little chance that a private school like Henry's wouldn't work out some tuition accomodation with the parents of one of the star hockey players, for the kid's last 3 semesters. Assuming Henry's academics are still sky-high, he has Ivy League written all over him. He's not going back to a public high school.

[RedHawk]

So Elizabeth was essentially calling the Washington Post “fake news”. Heh. That gave me a chuckle.

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't believe for a minute that Elizabeth could have killed him.  When she grabbed him around the neck, all he would have to do is fall backwards on her with all his weight.  Then he could have used her wig to mop what is left of her up.  Glasses and all.

In size vs know-how, I will always go with know-how. The only beef I have is if it's pro vs pro and the smaller woman wins. But against some schlub who's probably never thrown a punch in his life? I have no problem with the outcome.

[sistermagpie]

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Paige is so not cut out for spying. Every time she said "I get it" when Elizabeth was berating her, I thought, "No, I don't really think you do". And I don't think Elizabeth even brought up Paige's worst mistake. Running towards the gunshots was bad enough, but screeching "Mom! Mom!" was beyond stupid and after all this supposed training, you'd think she'd know better.

 

So much this. And it doesn't seem like a failure of Holly Taylor's performance or anything. The entire scene is written in such a way that it could just as easily be a slightly more mature Paige being confronted for going off on that bus trip back in S2. It's all, "I get it. I did a bad thing. I understand." And then back to philosophical musings about life. (She didn't even press Elizabeth on her story that the guy was "desperate" when Elizabeth was really talking about herself.) When it should have actually been a come to Jesus moment for both of them. Even right after it happened she was defending herself: I heard gunshots! I didn't know what had happened to you! That is still Paige's idea of common sense.

11 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Zing! Is this supposed to show us that Elizabeth is getting sloppy and the whole operation is falling apart?

I suspect it's more how everyone else is letting her down and she doesn't have enough time to work her magic. But she must have been told to pick this guy specifically so it makes little sense. Usually they always get a bio that includes the person's love life. Why was this guy chosen?

Just now, AimingforYoko said:

In size vs know-how, I will always go with know-how. The only beef I have is if it's pro vs pro and the smaller woman wins. But against some schlub who's probably never thrown a punch in his life? I have no problem with the outcome.

The show's leaned way too hard on this, though. The point of size vs. know-how is that it gives the person with smaller size a chance--usually that means a chance to run. It doesn't mean you can just pummel anyone to death. (And  Elizabeth has beaten guys who have both size and know-how.) In this case we're talking about a straight choke out where Elizabeth had the disadvantage of being shorter than the guy and he didn't even panic enough to thrash around and use his size by accident. That works fine when it's Larrick choking out Lucia who's under half his size so can believable thrash against his Navy Seal mountain body without consequence, but this guy almost seemed like he was being polite not using his size and weight to his own advantage.

It's funny because the show once claimed they got better at this and had Elizabeth and Philip become less powerful, but to me it seems like the opposite. In the first season Philip had a fight with Viola's brother that was legitimately a struggle.

9 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Compared to the whoppers in the show now it is a minor thing, but there is very little chance that a private school like Henry's wouldn't work out some tuition accomodation with the parents of one of the star hockey players, for the kid's last 3 semesters. Assuming Henry's academics are still sky-high, he has Ivy League written all over him. He's not going back to a public high school.

Absolutely. Wasn't that the whole point of his transformation? He became the kid everyone wanted to take credit for. The school was offering what sounded like a full scholarship last season based on just a few months of good grades and no interview or anything that I remember. It seems a bit of a retcon to have Philip spoken to like the parent of a borderline kid who's overreaching himself and outclassed by the school. Like after the time jump they want Philip to be even more of a cliche striving American who's overreaching himself when in fact he not only had nothing to do with the kid going to the school he didn't want him to go. And one of the first things Henry said about it was that money was no object--as if he didn't expect his parents to want to budget for that but he got a scholarship.

[Blakeston]

I haven't been as bothered by Pagie's naivete as others have, but she really irritated me in this one.

"Oh, so that general killed himself, and it happened just as you were meeting with him in the woods? What unlucky timing, huh? Wow, he must have been a complete mental patient! I wonder how such a raving lunatic got promoted to the position of general in the first place. I guess it must be a flaw in the capitalist system."

[DoubleUTeeEff]

12 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I had to laugh at that. She might not have known the exact age maximum for new agents, but she's no spring chicken. Did she really think Stan could get her past that? Maybe if she were a few months away from it, but she's obviously years too old.

Ouch. You don't think she could pass for 37? I thought she was supposed to be in her late 30's/early 40's in the show. I just looked up her real age and it is 49. I had no idea.

 

27 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Zing! Is this supposed to show us that Elizabeth is getting sloppy and the whole operation is falling apart? I actually thought when the Tracey conversation was happening that the big guy was testing Elizabeth and there was no actual Tracey at his company. He seemed to have this look on his face that at last he felt something was off about the whole situation, perhaps her stressing one too many times that he was not to speak to anyone about it. Perhaps she realized that he was suspicious and that’s why she killed him? 

I didn't read him as suspicious at all. I just think Elizabeth didn't know his girlfriend was in security and she didn't feel she could risk him telling her. I tuned out for a minute, is Elizabeth trying to get the radiation sensor? If that is the case, she didn't have the opportunity to have her "team" stake him out and dismiss him when they found out who his girlfriend was. Dead Hand and all the ops pertaining to that have to be just under Elizabeth's purview. And Elizabeth is stretched thin with the Summit so she didn't have time to stake him out herself. So I think it's an example of what happens when you cut corners.

I felt so bad for Elizabeth's victim this week. So unlucky to be picked for this ruse. Poor guy.

[RedHawk]

Is it Elizabeth who says to Phillip that he has not talked to anyone in the Soviet Union for 20 years, correct? Some here are saying it was the other way around. But my memory is SHE said it, and thus Phillip goes to the one person he knows who can tell him, and might likely tell him the truth, about what it’s actually like there.

Edited April 12, 2018 by RedHawk

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Ouch. You don't think she could pass for 37? I thought she was supposed to be in her late 30's/early 40's in the show. I just looked up her real age and it is 49. I had no idea.

 

I didn't read him as suspicious at all. I just think Elizabeth didn't know his girlfriend was in security and she didn't feel she could risk him telling her. I tuned out for a minute, is Elizabeth trying to get the radiation sensor? If that is the case, she didn't have the opportunity to have her "team" stake him out and dismiss him when they found out who his girlfriend was. Dead Hand and all the ops pertaining to that have to be just under Elizabeth's purview. And Elizabeth is stretched thin with the Summit so she didn't have time to stake him out herself. So I think it's an example of what happens when you cut corners.

I felt so bad for Elizabeth's victim this week. So unlucky to be picked for this ruse. Poor guy.

And he didn't get the super-quick exit, like having a car dropped on his skull! He was about the most polite victim of a strangling, by someone who weighs 75 pounds less, as can be imagined, however.

[Bannon]

10 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Is it Elizabeth who says to Phillip that he has not talked to anyone in the Soviet Union for 20 years, correct? Some here are saying it was the other way around. But my memory is SHE said it, and thus Phillip goes to the one person he knows who can tell him, and might likely tell him the truth, about what it’s actually like there.

My memory is he said it, and she replies, "Neither do you".

[Bannon]

20 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Ouch. You don't think she could pass for 37? I thought she was supposed to be in her late 30's/early 40's in the show. I just looked up her real age and it is 49. I had no idea.

 

I didn't read him as suspicious at all. I just think Elizabeth didn't know his girlfriend was in security and she didn't feel she could risk him telling her. I tuned out for a minute, is Elizabeth trying to get the radiation sensor? If that is the case, she didn't have the opportunity to have her "team" stake him out and dismiss him when they found out who his girlfriend was. Dead Hand and all the ops pertaining to that have to be just under Elizabeth's purview. And Elizabeth is stretched thin with the Summit so she didn't have time to stake him out herself. So I think it's an example of what happens when you cut corners.

I felt so bad for Elizabeth's victim this week. So unlucky to be picked for this ruse. Poor guy.

Also, even if the applicant gets under the  age 37 mark,  such an older applicant better have a resume that hits all the right marks, like a law degree,  or some specialized technical or language skills that the FBI has great need of. No, the FBI is not looking for 37 year old applicants with a general business background, having a mid life crisis. 

Really silly stuff. I sometimes can hardly believe that the same writers who executed the Martha arc so wonderfully, with huge assistance from the superb Allison Wright, are putting out this nonsense.

[Ina123]

31 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

...

How the hell did Elizabeth overpower that huge guy?  And if he was the only one she was talking to, why did his girlfriend Janice know about it?  Janice, she's just great!! And she's about to be on the market again! 

...

The girlfriend, I thought the name was Teresa, didn't know. The fear was that he would mention it and her being in security she would jump on that like a rat on cheese.

I think he was cast as big for the purpose of Elizabeth facing the reality that she is older and to make her wonder just how long she can do this. There was concern on her face for a few seconds that she couldn't physically do it.

[jjj]

Has anyone noticed how different the camera angles are in the home this season?  I don't know if they moved the furniture around, and the house is basically the same, but it is being shot in a completely different way this year.  I thought this must be to emphasize how different the home life is now. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by jjj

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

I think he was cast as big for the purpose of Elizabeth facing the reality that she is older and to make her wonder just how long she can do this. There was concern on her face for a few seconds that she couldn't physically do it.

She should have had that look on her face when she was younger too. She still would have had to jump up in her heels to try to reach his neck. But turns out neither age, weight or height was a problem. 

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Has anyone noticed how different the camera angles are in the home this season?  I don't know if they moved the furniture around, and the house is basically the same, but it is being shot in a completely different way this year.  I thought this must be to emphasize how different the home life is now. 

I agree. It's disorienting, presumably on purpose.

Edited April 12, 2018 by sistermagpie

[teddysmom]

15 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

The girlfriend, I thought the name was Teresa, didn't know. The fear was that he would mention it and her being in security she would jump on that like a rat on cheese.

I guess I'm confused, he said Teresa aka Janice (sorry)  already knew about the security audit? Or knew about the problems? 

I figured Elizabeth just gave him the spiel about the audit and keeping it on the DL, to get the info on the weak spots in their system, not that it was a real audit she somehow became a part of. . 

[benteen]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

 

Absolutely. Wasn't that the whole point of his transformation? He became the kid everyone wanted to take credit for. The school was offering what sounded like a full scholarship last season based on just a few months of good grades and no interview or anything that I remember. It seems a bit of a retcon to have Philip spoken to like the parent of a borderline kid who's overreaching himself and outclassed by the school. Like after the time jump they want Philip to be even more of a cliche striving American who's overreaching himself when in fact he not only had nothing to do with the kid going to the school he didn't want him to go. And one of the first things Henry said about it was that money was no object--as if he didn't expect his parents to want to budget for that but he got a scholarship.

If this is the case, it's another indication that the writing has really gotten sloppy since Season 5 and it doesn't bode well that the writers are going to stick the landing in the end.

Yeah, I thought Henry had a full scholarship too and I don't get the retcon.  The administrator's behavior doesn't make sense either.  According to him, Philip has never missed a payment before and if this is a "first offense" for the parents of a top student, why was he treating Philip like a guy who is never on time with his payments?

Edited April 12, 2018 by benteen

[Ina123]

3 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I guess I'm confused, he said Teresa aka Janice (sorry)  already knew about the security audit? Or knew about the problems? 

I figured Elizabeth just gave him the spiel about the audit and keeping it on the DL, to get the info on the weak spots in their system, not that it was a real audit she somehow became a part of. . 

There was no real audit. Because of his position in the warehouse he was targeted and given the story that it was an audit and that it was secret. Elizabeth was just using his info so when she, or another operative, breaks in to steal the radiation thingamajig, they will know where it is and what the obstacles are. The fact that the girlfriend was in security he just assumed she would know and the chances were that he would blab. That's why she killed him. (or she had planned to kill him all along. I don't think so or she would have had a better plan).