Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[manbearpig]

I also think Isabel had a lot of potential. Having her undermine Oliver at QC was a bit different for the show, and they could have done more with that. I also think the way she casually threatens Felicity and Diggle at Moira's funeral was equal parts chilling and casual, as she does it so convincingly but also just breezes past them like she has somewhere to be. That's not even factoring in how good Glau is at stunt work, like the bar brawl in Serenity. The way they used her was a bit of an issue; she was kind of around, and then she wasn't, and then she was back, and then she got killed off. Maybe there were scheduling issues, though, but by the end of season two I was definitely more interested in Blood and Isabel than our actual big bad Slade.

[kismet]

I hate to see potential got to waste and that is what Arrow did with Isabel & Summer Glau. Whether it was scheduling or something else. The loss of potential with that character I think is far greater than anything they produced on the show for her and that is frustrating.

Edited June 10, 2016 by kismet

[tarotx]

I wasn't a fan of Isabel so I was glad she was gone for a large chunk of time. I just felt Summer added nothing to the character - like she was poorly cast. It was like no go away for me. She and Early s3 Ray were there to embarrass Oliver. I hate that.

And then the show linked Isabel to Robert :x  

[looptab]

On 10/6/2016 at 5:54 PM, kismet said:

I think Isabel being part of Slade's revengenda took away a lot of potential that she should have had. S2 had a the right amount of villains, but the fact that they were all connected in the end I think diminished them. It became all about Slade.

Ha, that was actually one of the things I liked the most about S2's plot. That it was all Slade's plan, that he had  been surrounding and undermining basically every aspect of Oliver's life without him even realizing it. That might have been the last thing they plotted right.¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[rtalive]

Do you guys and gals would like Sara/Canary back on Arrow? I am just curious?

http://www.poll-maker.com/poll719057x207C4cc1-29

[Mellowyellow]

I can't answer that! I adore her on Legends so I would hate to lose her there! Plus I don't like it when there are too many people on Arrow. I would LOVE Sarah/Felicity scenes though! In my perfect world they'd get rid of Curtis and bring Sarah back somehow but she HAS to stay on Legends as well!!!!! 

[Sakura12]

As a Sara fan as you can tell by my pic. I would only want Sara back for an ep or 2 like the in the crossovers (since I do like her interactions with Team Arrow). Otherwise Sara needs to stay on Legends where she can be the badass she was meant to be. Sara gets to be so much more on LoT. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Sakura12

[Midnight Lullaby]

I need a "No, Arrow has too many characters already and the writers don't know how to balance them decently" option. LOL

[TimetravellingBW]

I think Sara's better as a regular on LoT. Having her back for a few episodes on Arrow would be ok, especially as she didn't get any bonding moments with the team apart from Laurel when she was resurrected. But definite no to her coming back as a regular - she's too big of a character for Arrow. On LoT she's basically a leading lady in her own right. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Big hard NOPE! I wouldn't mind A visit. But as a regular? NOPE! Arrow doesn't need more masks. Arrow doesn't need a Black Canary. I don't think it even needs a Speedy or an Arsenal (which is why I'm a little wary of Roy returning and I actually like Roy). I really want Oliver to be the only mask on Arrow (Digg doesn't count). Oliver becomes "less special" when there are too many masks running around. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva
Two and too are 2 different things :P

[kismet]

I like SL on LoT. I wouldn't mind her stopping by for visits. But there is no place for her as a regular character.  I'm not even a fan of Speedy.  I like TQ but even she in my mind is better served outside of the lair.  It really should only be OTA down there.  

However I might take SL over Curtis - not that its an option.  I am not looking forward to Curtis being a regular at all. 

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, rtalive said:

Do you guys and gals would like Sara/Canary back on Arrow? I am just curious?

http://www.poll-maker.com/poll719057x207C4cc1-29

No, not now.  Now I think she's far better served on her own show.  But there was a time I very much wanted her as a regular on Arrow.   I know it's very much an unpopular opinion here, but I am not an OTA fan, at all really.  I didn't like Laurel on the team, but that was because it was Laurel. I enjoyed Roy on the team and I miss him.  I've enjoyed Thea when she's not being derailed by Merlyn drama.  I enjoyed Sara in the team in season two.  I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with Curtis.  At one point I was really hoping we'd get Katana on the team.

I do want them to be used better.  But I'm not so much interested in the team just being limited to Oliver/Felicity/Diggle.  But as I say, I know that's a minority opinion here.  

[Sakura12]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

No, not now.  Now I think she's far better served on her own show.  But there was a time I very much wanted her as a regular on Arrow.   I know it's very much an unpopular opinion here, but I am not an OTA fan, at all really.  I didn't like Laurel on the team, but that was because it was Laurel. I enjoyed Roy on the team and I miss him.  I've enjoyed Thea when she's not being derailed by Merlyn drama.  I enjoyed Sara in the team in season two.  I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with Curtis.  At one point I was really hoping we'd get Katana on the team.

I do want them to be used better.  But I'm not so much interested in the team just being limited to Oliver/Felicity/Diggle.  But as I say, I know that's a minority opinion here.  

I'll join you in that minority opinion. Oliver, Felicity and Diggle didn't do much for me either. I didn't get really invested in this until Season 2 when Sara and Roy joined the team. I loved seeing the team of Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, Sara and Roy working together. They just needed to find a way to utilize everyone better.

[Starfish35]

I do enjoy Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle.  I just....it's hard to explain.  But I'm not interested in it being just them.   I don't know how to explain that exactly.

Part of it is my deep deep aversion to the Smurfette syndrome, and it's frustrating to me that a lot of times these core groups only include one woman.  Here it's OTA.  On Hawaii Five-0 it was the "Core Four", and the fandom only ever allowed Kono to be part of that.  I always want more women, and more awesome women, and a lot of times these little groups tend to exclude everyone but the fandom favorite female.  And that gets frustrating for me, even when I do love the female character in question.

Another part of it is that I am just not interested in Olicity, and a lot of times OTA can come off as Olicity + Diggle, such as in 4x20, which a lot of people here loved but which did nothing for me.  Well, I should say the Olicity part did nothing for me - I will always enjoy Diggle and Lyla.  

I don't know.  I should shut up before I lose all my friends here.  Lol.  Caffeine! I need caffeine!   I always get far too chatty when I'm sleep deprived.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Starfish35

[looptab]

Nothing wrong in having a different opinion. ;) I'll say though, that OTA is also often Oliver/Diggle + Felicity. Sadly the writers seem to have forgotten the Diggle/Felicity side of the three. 

As far as I'm concerned, re: the just OTA/expanded Team Arrow debate, I kinda stand in the middle. I do love OTA and think that's one of the best dynamics on the show. But I'm also not opposed to more members not called Laurel joining - as long as the show doesn't neglect the OTA dynamic, that is. Unfortunately they don't seem to be able to do that, which brings me to advocate for a return to OTA and just OTA. I need it, at least for a while, as much as I like Thea, I liked Roy, and am not against Curtis joining the Team. :)

Edited June 13, 2016 by looptab

[Carrie Ann]

My biggest thing has basically been that all the people on the team need to serve different purposes (both literally and narratively) and not just act as clutter in the lair/the field. I think Roy and Thea were good additions, in theory if not always in practice, because they can be mentees for Oliver (or Dig, not that they bothered with that much), which I think is good for his character development and is a different dynamic than he has with Dig or Felicity. I liked Sara a lot, but the "problem" with her on the team was really the problem with having a "real" BC on this show in the first place. She should have her own team, and run her own show, not just be a part of Oliver's team. I actually thought they did a pretty good job of showing that conflict in S2, eventually, even if her ultimate reason for leaving was more about the ~darkness~ specifically. I found Laurel's presence on the team to be superfluous at best.

With Curtis, I just don't really know how that's going to go. I hope that they will find ways to differentiate between what he does and what Felicity does in the lair, as well as differentiating with Dig and Oliver in the field, without sidelining either.

[Sakura12]

I still think it the how they used everyone that is the issue. Often they focus on two and forget the rest. If Team Arrow with Sara and Roy had paired them up better it could've been more interesting. I would have liked to see Diggle and Sara go out on a mission while Roy and Oliver had another mission or Sara and Roy or Roy and Diggle. I would've liked to see how they interacted with each other. Diggle and Sara probably could've helped explain Diggle naming his daughter after her as well. Even though I'm fine with it because Sara's an awesome and badass woman to be named after. 

They had their Green Arrow and Black Canary team up with actors that can do their own stunts and got carried away with it. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Sakura12

[Midnight Lullaby]

38 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

My biggest thing has basically been that all the people on the team need to serve different purposes (both literally and narratively) and not just act as clutter in the lair/the field. I think Roy and Thea were good additions, in theory if not always in practice, because they can be mentees for Oliver (or Dig, not that they bothered with that much), which I think is good for his character development and is a different dynamic than he has with Dig or Felicity. I liked Sara a lot, but the "problem" with her on the team was really the problem with having a "real" BC on this show in the first place. She should have her own team, and run her own show, not just be a part of Oliver's team. I actually thought they did a pretty good job of showing that conflict in S2, eventually, even if her ultimate reason for leaving was more about the ~darkness~ specifically. I found Laurel's presence on the team to be superfluous at best.

With Curtis, I just don't really know how that's going to go. I hope that they will find ways to differentiate between what he does and what Felicity does in the lair, as well as differentiating with Dig and Oliver in the field, without sidelining either.

I think this is a really good point. Even this year a lot of times I thought things would have worked better if we had a secondary team with Laurel and Thea (even if obviously I would have preferred Roy and Thea but it wasn't a option) because too many people in the field that do the exact same thing doesn't work for me. Also there are times, like in the finale, when everyone's help is necessary but mostly there's no need for all those people in the field. It feels like the criminals are outnumbered which is a bit bizarre.

Also with all those masks it's always the same pattern over and over again. Nothing new, nothing original. So much that you can change one team member with another and everyone can fill that role. They had the chance to do something original with Thea making her go dark at first and they didn't which for me was disappointing.

Laurel stole Sara's identity, Thea is running around in Roy's costume and I guess next year Curtis will be the genius in the field with the fancy suit. Basically who Ray was. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[SmallScreenDiva]

49 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

My biggest thing has basically been that all the people on the team need to serve different purposes (both literally and narratively) and not just act as clutter in the lair/the field.

Yep! My friends and I when talking about team dynamics on TV almost always point to "Leverage," which aired on TNT. It had 5 members and yet it never felt cluttered and no one was superfluous. It was because they all had distinct roles. Hacker. Fighter. Grifter. Thief. Mastermind. They would occasionally switch roles, learning each other's skills but they were always special in what they actually did. None of the people they brought on after OTA really have any specialized skill that the team needs. Sara, Roy, Thea, Laurel. They are/were all just extra muscle/fighters. The show had to provide more villains for them to fight. That's why we had so many fight scenes with Ghosts this season. Arrow had to justify having 3 extra masks (in this I'm including Digg).

That's why I'm wary about Curtis joining. What specialty is he bringing to the team? Hacking? Fighting? Already got people doing those. I'm already hearing arguments that he can replace either Felicity (hacking) or Diggle (the black dude; as if there should only be one on the team). I think I'm fine if they use him as some sort of utility infielder. Not on the team full time, but someone who can come in and help out only when needed.

Edited June 13, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[SmallScreenDiva]

Here's the thing for me. Arrow is supposed to be about Oliver's journey. OTA ensures that. Felicity and Digg can have their own storylines without really competing with Oliver's. Adding all these other masks dilutes the hero's journey for me, especially because these writers are not particularly original or creative. Something bad happens, a person either becomes villain or a hero. If it had originally be sold to me as some sort of low-level Justice League then hell yeah, get all the freakin' Canaries in there, Speedy, Arsenal, Mister Terrific, ATOM, Katana, etc. But it's not. The show is called Arrow. It's not  even Arrow and friends. Seeing other masks can be fun. I enjoy the Avengers movies (however, much as I enjoyed Captain America: Civil War I still wish it had focused more on him) but I only see them every 2-3 years? Arrow weekly featuring all these masks. Yeah, hard NOPE.

Edited June 13, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[thegirlsleuth]

For better or for worse, Arrow is not an ensemble show.  Some of the things that annoy me most about the show come out of that, including the fact that we always get Oliver's POV and don't often get others. On the flip side, I'm really invested in Oliver's story, putting up with a lot of idiocy because I want to see how he transforms.  I think Sara as Canary could carry a show, but as someone mentioned above, the Canary's story is too big to be a sidekick.  For me, the reasons I was annoyed with Sara in season two, despite liking her, were that 1) I am an OTA person, and resented when they were displaced, 2) with Sara Lance came Lance family drama, and c) Sara was everywhere, in the present and flashbacks, and it was a little too much for me. 

If Roy comes back for a few episodes next season I'm ok with that, since his sidekick role fit easily into the dynamic.  I'm concerned about Roy and Thea for a whole season since they both have similar skills and a similar dynamic in the field.  I adore Echo and like what we saw of Curtis, but don't look forward to him being a regular. His skills are redundant with Felicity--his inventions saved Palmer Tech and skillwise he took over her role easily--and he even has a babbling personality. They've also botched most on screen heroes journey--Oliver and Sara were excellent, but they showed up fully formed, and Roy wasn't bad--and so worry about his transformation taking up screentime/not resonating.

I might pick up LoT next season now that the dreaded Hawks are gone, and am interested in seeing how Sara's dynamic plays out.  I like her, and have heard good things about her role on the show.

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I still think it the how they used everyone that is the issue.

I agree. I always think about the first crossover which added Lyla, Cisco, Caitlin, and Barry in the lair, and for me, it worked seamlessly. So, they can do it; they just don't. Or, like the first part of S2, maybe it was a fluke of quality writing. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by calliope1975

[dtissagirl]

The fighter-fighter-fighter-fighter-hacker lineup would work for me if every mission was a fun action/adventure spy/heist thing with Felicity leading everyone into different places to steal different things and rescue different kidnapped people and disable different evil do-dads about to explode the city.

But Arrow's idea of fighter-fighter-fighter-fighter-hacker is Felicity finding where rando anonymous Ghosts are and then interminable fight scenes shot at a distance and zzzzzyawn *falls asleep*.

I basically wish Curtis was a doctor, because a doc would fit the lair way better than an engineer.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Sure, it worked. But that was a one-shot deal. Lyla, Cisco, Caitlin and Barry were there for 1 episode. They were guests. They didn't have to have actual story lines. They were there to serve the main plot. It's when the characters recur that it becomes a problem because they are just not used very well. Either they show up randomly but are forgotten most of the time (like Isabel) or take over (like Sara in the flashbacks and in the present) to the detriment of the show.

@dtissagirl, totally agree with you. If Arrow focused more on action-adventure, with the team going on more missions, that setup could work. Because yeah, group fight scenes ... boooooooring. But Arrow wants to be a serialized drama with a dose of action *shrugs*

[dtissagirl]

Arrow does two things with group fight scenes that I'm never ever gonna enjoy:

1. Fighting minions as an end of itself. Team Arrow goes out to beat up Ghosts and the point of it is beating up Ghosts. Why? If they beat up these Ghosts, what do they accomplish? It's another thing when it's the finale boss fight -- that one is meant to be the narrative climax. But an episode like the one with BamBam's super shaky camera? What was even the point of Thea fighting Andy? Nobody cares, because there was no point.

2. Nobody speaks during fights. I get this is because they use stunt people way more than they use actors, but ADR exists for a reason. I need a team of fighters to talk to each other while punching minions. Or the minions to be snarky. I'll watch a banter-y fight on loop forever, because the quips will make up for the fact that I could not care less about the karate chops. There's a reason Buffy is my fave. But fights scenes on Arrow are basically mute, so I'm playing Candy Crush until they're over and we're back to having dialog that I can pay attention to.

Edited June 13, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

Agreed about the heist/spy  thing. And some of the episodes I liked the most this season featured just that - e.g. 406 rescuing Ray, amd 420 with OTA and Lyla converging after Dig left the truck.  Another instance where the number of people in the field was utilized well was in  'Deathstroke', where Felicity was coordinating the Team following Slade. I liked that sequence. I wish they did more of that. 

[TimetravellingBW]

8 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Yep! My friends and I when talking about team dynamics on TV almost always point to "Leverage," which aired on TNT. It had 5 members and yet it never felt cluttered and no one was superfluous. It was because they all had distinct roles. Hacker. Fighter. Grifter. Thief. Mastermind. They would occasionally switch roles, learning each other's skills but they were always special in what they actually did. None of the people they brought on after OTA really have any specialized skill that the team needs. Sara, Roy, Thea, Laurel. They are/were all just extra muscle/fighters. The show had to provide more villains for them to fight. That's why we had so many fight scenes with Ghosts this season. Arrow had to justify having 3 extra masks (in this I'm including Digg).

Previously I was neutral on bringing in more members, I loved OTA but looked forward to Roy and Thea coming on board. Now I'm leaning towards just sticking with Oliver/Diggle/Felicity because they writers have botched integrating every subsequent member. 

I think there are two different aspects needed for a new team member to work: They need a specific skill and their personality needs to mesh well with the rest of the team and contribute something emotionally. Also the writer need to freaking invest the time to integrate new members not just toss them in. 

Diggle worked because he had a military background and was the level-headed, voice of reason. Felicity had hacking and brought optimism/civilian perspective.

Roy and Thea could have worked if the writers put in any effort. Roy brought skills and a perspective from the streets, which the show could have connected to what was going on in Starling. He was also more impulsive and kinda the little brother of the team. Likewise, Thea had League training and personality wise was much more gung-ho and excited (even without the bloodlust) which felt fresh and different from Oliver and Dig who are focused and stoic. But the writers just didn't invest the time or effort to integrate them.

Laurel had vague boxing training and her personal contribution was to bitch about things. Her domineering personality meant she was never going to work as a team player. 

Also look at difference team bonding made: Diggle and Felicity bonded with each other not just Oliver, so the trio actually felt like a team. Roy had good build up to becoming Oliver's sidekick and a nice introduction to D/F, but was sidelined when Sara arrived and then bonded with the team off-screen between S2 and 3. Laurel was a mess from start to finish, with no one wanting her there initially, the infamous Felicity propping her up and becoming Diggle's BFF/"sister" off-screen between S3 and 4. Thea basically wasn't allowed to talk to anyone but Laurel throughout most of S4.

9 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think this is a really good point. Even this year a lot of times I thought things would have worked better if we had a secondary team with Laurel and Thea (even if obviously I would have preferred Roy and Thea but it wasn't a option) because too many people in the field that do the exact same thing doesn't work for me. Also there are times, like in the finale, when everyone's help is necessary but mostly there's no need for all those people in the field. It feels like the criminals are outnumbered which is a bit bizarre.

Also with all those masks it's always the same pattern over and over again. Nothing new, nothing original. So much that you can change one team member with another and everyone can fill that role. They had the chance to do something original with Thea making her go dark at first and they didn't which for me was disappointing.

Laurel stole Sara's identity, Thea is running around in Roy's costume and I guess next year Curtis will be the genius in the field with the fancy suit. Basically who Ray was. 

As the writers struggled to manage more than OTA, having a secondary team would have worked so much better in Season 3 and 4. Roy, Thea (and maybe another secondary character: Curtis? Sin? Even Laurel as she was unfortunately still around) teaming up and doing their own thing would add complexity to the show.

(And yes, I'm forever bitter than they teased Thea going dark at the end of S2 and threw it aside for Is Malcolm A Good Or Bad Father debacle. Ugh.) 

6 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

The fighter-fighter-fighter-fighter-hacker lineup would work for me if every mission was a fun action/adventure spy/heist thing with Felicity leading everyone into different places to steal different things and rescue different kidnapped people and disable different evil do-dads about to explode the city.

But Arrow's idea of fighter-fighter-fighter-fighter-hacker is Felicity finding where rando anonymous Ghosts are and then interminable fight scenes shot at a distance and zzzzzyawn *falls asleep*.

I basically wish Curtis was a doctor, because a doc would fit the lair way better than an engineer.

Yes to all this. The show overloaded with fighters and didn't even make the most of them. Heists are fun! Having missions with an end goal and strategy and different roles are fun! Four masks bashing things in a dimly-lit warehouse while Felicity talks on the comms....not fun. 

Curtis as a Doctor would be so much better because that's a skill the team actually needs. As it is, both his skills and personality feel too close to Felicity's role. 

Edit: That got super long and I apologize. Also for me a show that really nailed team-building was SG-1 where you had the same four members for eight straight seasons (minus the Season 6 Daniel hiccup) and it didn't get boring. Because they all had different skills - Military leader, scientist, archaeologist/linguist and alien -  and all four members had genuine, distinct friendships with each other. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[kismet]

Cmon guys... Curtis is probably already doctor. A surgeon with IVY league credentials in his spare time. A doctor on the squad would make sense.

I like smaller teams because I think the writers do better with trios or quads. The minute they go above 4 people, they lose they writing juju. I think OTA worked really really well, however I also liked the Junior Arrow Trio with Roy/Sin/TQ. But since s3, they have tried to become an ensemble show and the writers just can't do that every week. A few episodes here and there are fine, but the writers just can't write 23 episodes of group dynamics as the main driving force. It's just not in their wheelhouse.

[TimetravellingBW]

Given Curtis's thing is being "terrific" at everything, it would have been better to make him a genius surgical doctor who invents and develops medical technology. That way he could still be invent some ~miraculous spine healing doo-dad ~ to fix Felicity. (I know as much about medical and surgical science as the writers clearly). And then his main role would be the team doctor.

We already have Felicity as a hacker, Ray as the inventor last year and Cisco as an engineer when they need to some new gadget. Is Curtis's role going to be inventing new things in the background that will conveniently tie in with TA's weekly problem? Hacking is an active, day to day useful skill for team, inventing not so much.

Edited June 14, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[kismet]

In talking about Tommy in another thread it got me thinking, I am really curious how they are going to kill off Curtis or whoever next year's victim is. Unless things change next season, I volunteer Curtis for that part.

Both Tommy & Moira got hero deaths. Sara got killed & resurrected for plot. Laurel was just killed, I know there was a lot of post-mortem hero-worship, but the fact is LL was simply just killed off. Which makes me wonder if the next person will be given a hero's death or simply used for plot?

[TimetravellingBW]

I really hope they don't kill a main next season. We've had four seasons with an obligatory "what major character shall we kill this year." (Tommy, Moira, Sara, Laurel). Tommy was a shock, Moira less so - and her death has harmed the show ever since, Sara only caused outrage and a miserable mood all season and Laurel fueled the grave mystery but her death itself was underwhelming. Also the constant merry go round of introducing characters, spending so long setting them up and then waving goodbye feels like a waste of time. Plus the 1 Big Death Per Season has become so freaking formulaic - that's why everyone bought the Roy fake out in Season 3. Writers for Season 5, please let the big twist be someone not dying. (Unless it's Malcolm. In which case go ahead). 

But if they do kill someone. Paul seems likely (as commented before), because the law of the Arrowverse is a loved one dying gives you vigilante powers. (Again, it would be great if they did something different). He'd probably have a tragic death bleeding out in Curtis's arms or something along those lines :(  I think Donna or Quentin are more likely to die than Curtis, but hopefully they'd get more "heroic" deaths than Sara and Laurel's undignified endings.

5 hours ago, kismet said:

I like smaller teams because I think the writers do better with trios or quads. The minute they go above 4 people, they lose they writing juju. I think OTA worked really really well, however I also liked the Junior Arrow Trio with Roy/Sin/TQ. But since s3, they have tried to become an ensemble show and the writers just can't do that every week. A few episodes here and there are fine, but the writers just can't write 23 episodes of group dynamics as the main driving force. It's just not in their wheelhouse.

I think it's true the writers are good with trios: Original Team Arrow, Teen Arrow with Roy/Sin/Thea, (the show dropping that dynamic is still one of the things I'm most bummed about, I remember being really annoyed Teen Arrow investigating Blood got handed over to Laurel because she needed something to do). Also Slade/Oliver/Shado, Slade/Oliver/Sara and Oliver/Maseo/Tatsu in flashbacks were pretty good. But more people than that and the writers struggle. Also having smaller teams in Season 5 would give some layers to the show, as having different characters off providing different plotlines rather than 85% of the cast crowded in the lair all the time would be more interesting. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[kismet]

I sincerely hope they never not kill off Quentin... He is truly the last and really the only non-mask hero on the show. FS is a non-mask by a technicality, for all intent purposes she is a mask without an official mask. FS has a superpower (her brain) and has been on Team Arrow since ep 103, 114 if u want to be technical. She has the 3rd most seniority on Team Arrow, while fundamentally keeping it afloat on many levels from morale to monetary.

Meanwhile QL has never been shown to be special or have any superpower. He is just a decent guy trying to save his city in a rather dangerous job. Also I have fundamental issues with him always being on the short kill list because of his lack of superpowers or his age. He grounds the show in a way none of the other characters do. The minute they kill off QL, I will begin to question if they have fallen too far off course. Even if PB wants to leave the show, they should let him just move away somewhere sunny and nice. For me keeping QL alive keeps the show authentic to its roots.

[Delphi]

So last night I had a dream that it was October and it was premiere night.   I don't recall all the details but I remember that somehow Barry's antics resulted in Moira still being alive and she was helping Oliver get used to being mayor and such.   Now that's all I really want for season five.   I don't care how it gets worked out but I need it. 

[wonderwall]

I'm doing a rewatch of Don't Trust the B in Apartment 23 and guess who shows up?! Papa Smoak! God I hope he comes back onto Arrow :) I feel like he's more of an interesting character than Donna tbh. And I like Donna (well, as long as the show doesn't overuse her like they did in season 4)

[Last Time Lord]

On 6/16/2016 at 7:58 PM, Delphi said:

So last night I had a dream that it was October and it was premiere night.   I don't recall all the details but I remember that somehow Barry's antics resulted in Moira still being alive and she was helping Oliver get used to being mayor and such.   Now that's all I really want for season five.   I don't care how it gets worked out but I need it. 

This sort of ties into what I am hoping for in the next season, specifically that I want there to be at least some aftereffect of Barry just pissing in the time stream the way he did in Flash's finale that affects this show, too.

Keeping with the same, but slightly different feel that Flashpoint had (well, the animated movie, anyway. I've not read the comic) a quick thing I can come up with is during the Mirakuru Siege at the end of season 2, let's say, instead of Malcolm saving Thea, Roy did, but in the process, had gotten seriously hurt (Let's say an arm injury because I believe that actually happened to Roy in the comics), so Thea became Speedy at that point under Oliver's training, Thea and Roy remain together, and eventually produce Lian Harper.

I realize there are some gaps to fill in, but dealing with an AU, here, there's literally million of ways to fill in the discrepancies between the what actually happened and what happened in this Flashpoint.

[DrSpaceman10]

I hope that Arrow isn't affected by Flashpoint at all. I'm tired of Arrow having to bend over backwards for the spin-offs. 

I'm not feeling that hopeful about Season Five. The biggest plus for me is that LL is finally gone, which should at the very least help the team dynamics.

I almost feel like Oliver/Felicity are back where they were at the end of Season One, which makes me wonder what all the angst was for. I still don't understand why they had them get engaged so quickly and then broke them up in the most contrived way possible only for them to (imo) pretend like they never even dated. I  also kind of think that they'll give Oliver and/or Felicity a new (most likely temporary) love interest, which I don't think will do the show any favors.

I don't think OTA is going to have that many scenes together, because I think they'll pack the team with masks again (maybe Curtis and/or a new character). I also don't think Felicity is ever going to get a more in-depth story arc than she did in Season Four, with people screaming 'Felicity and Friends' every time they try to give her any kind of arc. 

Hopefully, there'll be spoilers that get me more excited for Season Five. 

[quarks]

I'm not worried about Felicity getting story arcs - "A.W.O.L." got quite a bit of praise, and the major criticism of the wheelchair storyline was how quickly she got out of the wheelchair.  Even with the "Felicity and Friends" stuff, she's still popular. Plus, Curtis will presumably have a lot of scenes with her, and I expect that she'll also be appearing in a couple of the crossover episodes - probably not all four, but at least Flash and Arrow and possibly Legends of Tomorrow.

I am concerned about Thea getting story arcs. 

[wonderwall]

11 minutes ago, quarks said:

I'm not worried about Felicity getting story arcs - "A.W.O.L." got quite a bit of praise, and the major criticism of the wheelchair storyline was how quickly she got out of the wheelchair.  Even with the "Felicity and Friends" stuff, she's still popular. Plus, Curtis will presumably have a lot of scenes with her, and I expect that she'll also be appearing in a couple of the crossover episodes - probably not all four, but at least Flash and Arrow and possibly Legends of Tomorrow.

I am concerned about Thea getting story arcs. 

To be fair, the Felicity and Friends stuff came from the fans... The critics were actually HARSH on Arrow for not following through with any of Felicity's storylines especially with her wheelchair arc and Havenrock.

[DrSpaceman10]

18 minutes ago, quarks said:

Plus, Curtis will presumably have a lot of scenes with her, and I expect that she'll also be appearing in a couple of the crossover episodes - probably not all four, but at least Flash and Arrow and possibly Legends of Tomorrow.

I am concerned about Thea getting story arcs. 

I like Echo, but Curtis is another thing I'm not looking forward to next season. IMO they're just siphoning off Felicity's role to give him stuff to do. 

I don't really care either way about Thea getting a story arc, she's not one of the reasons I watch Arrow. That being said, if John Barrowman does appear in fewer episodes next season, she'll have a better chance of finally getting a story arc of her own. 

[quarks]

Just now, wonderwall said:

To be fair, the Felicity and Friends stuff came from the fans... The critics were actually HARSH on Arrow for not following through with any of Felicity's storylines especially with her wheelchair arc and Havenrock.

Right. But the main complaint wasn't so much that Felicity was put into a wheelchair, or that Arrow spent time showing Felicity adjusting to that wheelchair, but that she was miraculously cured in about four to five episodes. Which is to say, it's not so much that fans/critics were complaining that Felicity got an arc/screentime, but that Arrow didn't spend enough time on that arc to do the storyline justice. Which I think was true about a number of the other arcs this season.

Even the flashbacks. Yes, I know I spent the entire season complaining about how boring they were so this is hypocritical of me, but one issue with the flashbacks is that they never really bothered to give Poppy much of a character or tell us much about her beyond the fact that she was Russian and liked scuba diving and could cook lizards, which made it difficult to get interested in her.

[Password]

I have been wondering how they'll get Oliver and Felicity back together and I'm resigned to a new LI being thrown in there somewhere. But who will get the LI is something I'm not sure about. And how the LI will affect Olicity is something I'm hoping fanfiction writers will get onto.

Hopefully there aren't ANY new LIs but eh.

[dtissagirl]

In my dream scenario, a very nice woman gets interested in Oliver, and HE FREAKS THE FUCK OUT that someone is interested in him, because in his head he's not available. Which jumpstarts him actually talking to Felicity about their status. O/F hijinks ensue.

[looptab]

My headcanon is: woman flirts with/pursues him. He's like "No way, actually yesterday I brought  all my sheets and towels to be embroidered with "O&F" by blind nuns". Someone insists that he  give it a try, he begrudgingly agrees - meanwhile Felicity's like "I'm sooo cool with this. Seriously" - but at the last moment he stands the poor woman out and goes at Felicity's instead. With dinner possibly. They can talk or do other stuff.

Looptab's cliches: 1¢ :D

Edited June 19, 2016 by looptab

[Guest]

I'm kinda resigned to a new love interest in there somewhere and I totally think it will be one for Oliver this time. But I could do without it. It doesn't make sense to me when O/F are still in love with each other and were legit about to be married. Love interests after such a huge near-commitment are always tricky and could taint things. So I'm wary but resigned to it because this is Arrow.

If we do have to go there I'd rather it only be like @dtissagirl said and it lasts like one or two episodes as a way for O/F to start to figure things out. I have a feeling they're gonna be in relationship limbo throughout hiatus so they'll need something to kickstart things.

Or they could surprise us all and have them already moved on. IDK. I'm sort of prepared/resigned to any possibility at this point after the way they dropped O/F from the narrative at the end of s4.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited June 19, 2016 by Guest

[DrSpaceman10]

I can't see them giving Oliver (or Felicity) a new love interest for only a couple of episodes. Most of the romantic relationships the two of them have had have been full on dating/committed relationships. 

My speculation is that Oliver and/or Felicity will decide they're ready to move on at the beginning of Season Five. Probably Oliver will meet someone (maybe in the mayor's office or even a new vigilante), start dating around November sweeps, break up mid-season, then maybe they'll do something romantic with Oliver/Felicity at the end of the season. 

Maybe that's why they kind of ignored that O/F had dated/been engaged after they broke up, so they could test them as just friends to see if it would work for Season Five. 

[kismet]

If they do get a new love interest I hope its better written & cast than RP/BR for FS. And if its for OQ, I hope its not a female mask.

[tv echo]

After everything that Oliver & Felicity went through in S4 and before (and everything that they've said to each other), it just wouldn't feel natural (or 'organic') to me that either of them would fall in love with someone else while they're still in each other's lives on a daily basis. They still have that chemistry together. And if Oliver couldn't make it work with Felicity, then how could he possibly make it work with someone else? But I don't write or run the show.

[way2interested]

Idk, I just don't see them doing the love interest thing after having 2 seasons back-to-back doing the love interest thing along with doing a flip of the pattern in it for s4. Granted, the pattern for Arrow's romance story is so well-established I guess it would be hard to not do it for the next season, but it just seems off for the story to do it at this point to me? I think it's just because at this point any love interest would have to not be spin-off bait or a vigilante to really be different from anything they've done at this point, and if the love interest was a normal person, then the person would have to be either a continuing presence in the plot through a good chunk of episodes (about at least 510ish, or even earlier, towards 520ish to follow the pattern from s2 and 3) or show up, be the love interest, and then completely disappear from the entire universe (which would kind of be a step down and something they hadn't really done since McKenna in s1). Plus, it seems like to me that it was just the circumstances around the last few episodes that prevented the show from pushing Oliver and Felicity forward on any romantic fronts rather than them purposefully wanting Oliver and Felicity to decide to never be together again to create a dramatic get together arc later down the line. Between Laurel dying, the world possibly ending, and the finale taking place over the course of about 2 days, I think that they just didn't want to rush Oliver and Felicity back together and didn't want Oliver and Felicity getting back together to be connected to Laurel's death. 

That's not to say they won't be another love interest. I just don't think it would work with what they've been doing, but we'll probably get more news on where they're going at SDCC. Personally, I just hope that they stay away from any love interests for s5 and then just work on trying to get Oliver and Felicity back together during those Feb or May sweeps period.

[dtissagirl]

That's why my dream scenario isn't a love interest -- it's a fakeout love interest that's gonna fool the audience into thinking they're giving Oliver a new girlfriend [bonus points for stunt casting to make fandom go nuclear], but psych! -- lady is there just to make Oliver realize he doesn't wanna date anyone, he wants to *be old marrieds* with Felicity.

[Guest]

I might be resigned to it but I legit have no interest in watching either Oliver or Felicity flirt and date someone else - like it's probably something that will finally make me drift away from the show because O/F's relationship is one of the last remaining reasons for my continued investment. And I feel like we're way past the point of no return here. If they wanted to mess around with new love interests they should have done that before they put O/F together in such a serious and committed way. 

So that's why my hope is the same as @dtissagirl: fakeout love interest. They can keep anything more. No thanks. Bye! Haha.