Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Starfish35]

And also, as sexist as it sounds, I can't see this show having Team Arrow consist of Oliver and three women.

But then they could bring Curtis on to replace Diggle. Not that I'm advocating that....just saying, the argument is there.

I wouldn't mind if it's Oliver's kid. Sorry not sorry but I cannot stand kids on the show and I never will.

I can't see it being William, mainly because if something does happen to William, that will absolutely be Oliver's fault for even putting him on the radar. If Oliver had just stayed away from him, likely no one would ever have made the connection.

But at the grave Oliver said that he didn't believe it was his fault. I don't believe for a moment that he would say that if it was his son in the grave.

[tangerine95]

I think the death will be a regular and someone from team arrow.Baby mama or the kid dying there is no way Oliver wouldn't feel guilty about that.Donna,Alex,Lyla,MB and the kid also aren't prominent enough to warrant this much hype.I think they are aware how underwhelming it would be to kill off a minor character after teasing this death for a season and making it look like it will be Felicity.

IMO this episode set up even more that Felicity,Diggle and Thea are the most important people to Oliver who give him reasons to keep fighting.So I think they're all safe.Digg is also always set up as a role model to Oliver.The writers and DR have said the life Diggle has is what Oliver wants in the future so I think they won't kill him off or kill off Lyla.

They dropped anvils for Laurel especially in this episode.More subtle ones than for Lance IMO.She gave Oliver that speech which is pretty much what he says at the grave and also said the same line as Felicity about deciding if she needs protection.Feels like someone from that scenario will end up dead.Lance saying he has no idea what he would do if something happened to her but it would be ugly sounds to me like we will get to see that happen.They could have given that line to Laurel and I would have taken it as a possible going dark storyline when Lance dies but they gave that to Lance instead.

[Starfish35]

Yeah the foreshadowing for it being Laurel was probably heavier than it's ever been.

I certainly wouldn't mind it being Laurel - she'd certainly be my choice to go. I just hate to get my hopes up again.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

i'm sticking with my original prediction, it's either Laurel or Quentin.

[tarotx]

Oliver inserting himself into BM&son's life takes them off the table imo. No way he doesn't blame himself.

Felicity's off the table because no way he's sane especially that soon after she dies. No matter what Oliver would still blame himself.

Diggle is my man so ease no. I love Oliver and Diggle scenes. I would hate it and think the only point was to make fans upset. Losing DR just isn't worth that. He's Olicer's only make friend.

Thea's death would be redundant. Oliver would only have blood connection with the Son he barely knows. I just can't see Oliver mot blaming g himself no matter what leads to her death. She's his baby sister.

If Laurel was a regular character (and not comic royalty) it would be her. She's a character that other charactets can fill every important avenue. And her Lawyer gig is so little used a guest star can fill that role if needed. They have even inserted Lance into Felicity's mom's life so that he has a new daughter so doesn't need Laurel for storyline. Oliver wored hard to keel Laurel out if his life style&team. It was all on her. But BC is a major comic player so I just can't see it happen. Plus as with Thea, Would they kill another female right now?

I still think it will be Lance.

Edited December 10, 2015 by tarotx

[Guest]

But then they could bring Curtis on to replace Diggle. Not that I'm advocating that....just saying, the argument is there.

 

I can see that argument but the very idea that Diggle can just be replaced with another black character makes me supremely uncomfortable. No no no. I really can't see it. I REFUSE!  *clutches Diggle tight*

Edited December 10, 2015 by Guest

[Cerulean Blue]

Yeah, after last night's episode, I'm more convinced than ever it's Laurel. Since we first saw the grave, I figured it would either be Laurel or Quentin and that the writers were using the season to kind of test Laurel out. They don't have the previous season's excuses for why people don't like Laurel any more (she's not a threat to Oliver/Felicity, she's now Black Canary, etc.), but she's still not a particularly popular character. At worst (as in the Sara resurrection arc), she's actively disliked and criticized; at best, she's generally ignored. Even the reviews I've seen for last night's review were more about how the Canary Cry is at least useful now, not  about how Laurel is useful now. 

 

And I honestly don't get how her being Black Canary means she's bulletproof. Now, granted, I am in no way a comics reader but I had legit never heard of Black Canary before I started watching Arrow. I now know that comics!BC is popular in other versions of the Green Arrow story with comics fans, but I doubt the average Arrow viewer would be aghast at killing off a character who is, essentially, Oliver's least effective sidekick.

 

Plus, going into season 4b, she's the only character without a storyline. Digg has his brother, Felicity has whatever tragic injury she has, Thea has the bloodlust and DD's seeming interest in her, Quentin has his double agent thing and his new love with Donna. Laurel has...thinking up a snappy comeback for Malcolm's sartorial insult?

 

Finally, as @tangerine95 said above, Laurel basically gave Oliver a word-for-word speech that outlines exactly what he recites at the grave. If Laurel does die, he can very easily point to this speech as Laurel making her own choices, as him not being at fault for her death. Plus, she is literally the only person on Team Arrow who Oliver didn't involve on the team. He asked both Digg and Felicity to join him, and Thea's involved because she's his sister. I think he'd feel somewhat responsible for any of their deaths. Laurel, on the other hand, wanted to join in because she was bored and angry and hitting people makes her feel better. 

[Starfish35]

I can see that argument but the very idea that Diggle can just be replaced with another black character makes me supremely uncomfortable. No no no. I really can't see it. I REFUSE! *clutches Diggle tight*

Oh definitely yes, it makes me uncomfortable too. But I'm not sure I trust the people in charge enough not to go there. :(

[nksarmi]

I still believe it's Lance, but did we get confirmation that the death is real? I wouldn't put it past them to fake a death again this year.  I actually felt that if Oliver needed to remove Felicity from Darkh's sights - he might fake her death.

Edited December 10, 2015 by nksarmi

[calliope1975]

i'm sticking with my original prediction, it's either Laurel or Quentin.

 

I don't see how it could be anyone else without it truly changing (possibly ruining) the dynamics of the show.

[Chaser]

It's crazy to me that none of the reviewers are even talking about Laurel being in the grave. Everything I've seen it's either Felicity (which most seem to now be dismissing) or Lance.

 

I'm solidly in the Lance camp. It's one of them for sure. I think this episode confirmed it.

 

I can't help but lean towards Laurel though. I think it's going to be a Team Arrow member and I don't consider Lance a member. Plus the way they wrote Felicity and Laurel this episode, it says something to me.

[Starfish35]

I think the thing about Laurel being bulletproof is because they ended up killing off a better (IMO) more developed character in their stubborn determination to make her BC, unpopularity be damned. Killing her off now would be an admission that they've failed. It's just hard to imagine that they would back down now after stubbornly pushing through the BC storyline last year like they did. And as someone who was convinced that they were going to kill her off in season two - well, once burned, twice shy, as they say.

But....I can't deny that there was some pretty heavy foreshadowing for her in this episode. So....maybe?

ETA: I guess for me, there has long been a feeling of "why the hell is she still on this show?" They took away her LI role, and they had a far better BC (IMO) in place. But that didn't seem to matter. So I guess it's hard for me to believe that whatever kept her on the show before this (whatever it is that I don't understand) has suddenly gone away. *shrug* But who knows?

Edited December 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

If Laurel was a regular character (and not comic royalty) it would be her. She's a character that other charactets can fill every important avenue. And her Lawyer gig is so little used a guest star can fill that role if needed. They have even inserted Lance into Felicity's mom's life so that he has a new daughter so doesn't need Laurel for storyline. Oliver wored hard to keel Laurel out if his life style&team. It was all on her. But BC is a major comic player so I just can't see it happen. Plus as with Thea, Would they kill another female right now?

 

I'm sorry but Black Canary is NOT and never has been Comic Royalty or a Major Comic Player.  Black Canary is a D-List Comic character who has always been a utility player in other books (Justice League, Detective Comics etc) or part of a team (Green Arrow, Birds of Prey) .  Her first solo title just launched in June and is sitting at 22K-23K issues per month.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

I still believe it's Lance, but did we get confirmation that the death is real?

Yes, in their post-premiere interviews they said that the death is real, and it won't be undone somehow.

[nksarmi]

I'm sorry but Black Canary is NOT and never has been Comic Royalty or a Major Comic Player.  Black Canary is a D-List Comic character who has always been a utility player in other books (Justice League, Detective Comics etc) or part of a team (Green Arrow, Birds of Prey) .  Her first solo title just launched in June and is sitting at 22K-23K issues per month.

 

Well, I don't know about comic royalty, but I think she qualifies as a major player (or at least mid-sized one).  She seems pretty close to Barbara Gordon level status, no?  She's a founding member of Birds of Prey and at some point, doesn't she become a leader of the Justice League? 

 

I'm not saying they won't kill her for that reason though.  I just don't know why they would kill any masks at this point.  They now have three shows on the CW and two that are loosely tied to their universe (Supergirl and TNT's Titans).  It doesn't make sense to me to kill Laurel/BC unless KC wants out.  They could so easily transition her to one of the other shows - there is no reason to kill, kill her.

 

On the other hand, Lance is playing the double agent to redeem his role in Darhk taking over the city, he is starting to respect that Laurel and Sara can take care of themselves and don't need him, and he's falling in like with Donna.  All of that spells to me, the man is going to do something sacrificial and get himself killed.

 

And his death will impact have even bigger impact because of Donna.  Oliver's future mom-in-law will be shaken, Felicity will be mad as hell, and they'll have to lock Laurel in a cage to prevent her from doing something stupid.  That's all more than enough to spur Oliver into killing Darkh.

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by nksarmi

[dtissagirl]

For what it's worth, there was a Black Canary trend attempt on Twitter yesterday, and not only the numbers were fairly low [around 3k tweets], but the most popular tweet yesterday that contained the words "Black Canary" came from Gail Simone talking about the comic book character.

 

http://topsy.com/analytics?q1=i%20love%20black%20canary&q2=black%20canary&q3=%23blackcanary&via=Topsy

 

I still believe that their plan for Laurel this season was to minimize Laurel Lance and maximize Black Canary, but it's still cray that post-Sara, neither Laurel nor BC have on-going storylines of their own. She has no personal life, whereas everybody else do, and she has no villain of her own, or mission of her own -- which they could have given her in 409 with Lance being a double agent and DD threatening her specifically, but they didn't.

Edited December 10, 2015 by dtissagirl

[tarotx]

I originally wrote GA comic. She is considered as major as GA himself. I just don't see them killing her off because of her comic importance to GA comic fans.

I'm sorry but Black Canary is NOT and never has been Comic Royalty or a Major Comic Player. Black Canary is a D-List Comic character who has always been a utility player in other books (Justice League, Detective Comics etc) or part of a team (Green Arrow, Birds of Prey) . Her first solo title just launched in June and is sitting at 22K-23K issues per month.

[Starfish35]

They could so easily transition her to one of the other shows - there is no reason to kill, kill her.

I don't believe that, personally. I think she'd stick out like a sore thumb on the other two shows. On LoT she'd end up being the lesser Canary next to Sara's badassness, and I can't possibly see how she could fit in on The Flash. They can't even do justice to the two female regulars they already have.

That's just my personal opinion though. *shrug*

Edited December 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

I originally wrote GA comic. She is considered as major as GA himself. I just don't see them killing her off because of her comic importance to GA comic fans.

 

Speaking as someone who IS a GA comic book fan, and an even greater Black Canary fan: I truly do not believe GA comic book fans have any importance whatsoever in the decisions made on the show.

[Morrigan2575]

I originally wrote GA comic. She is considered as major as GA himself. I just don't see them killing her off because of her comic importance to GA comic fans.

That is different, and I think it would depend on what comic fans you talk to.  I've encountered quite a few who couldn't give a shit about Black Canary because the only Green Arrow Partnership of value (to them) is the Green Arrow/Green Lantern Partnership/friendship.  I'd also argue that anyone getting into Green Arrow now is not going to place a huge importance on Black Canary since she hasn't been a part of the Green Arrow story since 2011.

 

Well, I don't know about comic royalty, but I think she qualifies as a major player (or at least mid-sized one).  She seems pretty close to Barbara Gordon level status, no?  She's a founding member of Birds of Prey and at some point, doesn't she become a leader of the Justice League?

 

Green Arrow and Black Canary are C/D List Comics characters they are not on Batgirl's level.  Batgirl, Dick Greyson/Nightwing, Robin, Oracle are all B List Characters. 

 

Speaking as someone who IS a GA comic book fan, and an even greater Black Canary fan: I truly do not believe GA comic book fans have any importance whatsoever in the decisions made on the show.

 

I don't think any one fan group has a major influence on the show, except for the writers themselves, DC Comics, WBros Lawyers/Accountants, CW Suits  

Edited December 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

DC doesnt care

[Balaclava]

I originally wrote GA comic. She is considered as major as GA himself. I just don't see them killing her off because of her comic importance to GA comic fans.

 

She's not consider as major as GA himself, that's reaching a bit, we're talking about a C and a D, and she's the D in this. Her importance to GA comic fans is debatable (very) she was brought into GA comics with the intention of giving him a LI, that lasted more or less 2 years, as it stands now they don't even now each other.The majority of GA fans i know don't really care about BC, and the ones that do, not that much

 

During season 3, there was an ongoing discussion among the comic book squad regarding Ra's Al Ghul, if Arrow would kill him or not and if DC would allow that to happen, Arrow killed Ra's Al Ghul, what makes anyone even think, if they want, they wouldn't kill BC/Laurel? 

Edited December 12, 2015 by Balaclava

[dtissagirl]

I don't think any one fan group has a major influence on the show, except for the writers themselves, DC Comics, WBros Lawyers/Accountants, CW Suits  

 

Yup, I agree. Whoever involved on the show who happens to be a huge GA comic book fan? That person has story influence. But that does NOT apply to the general audience.

 

How do you even track who in the audience of the show is a GA comic book fan? Or who from the current GA readers are also watching Arrow? There's no way to do this. Plus, the good ol' [male liberal] GA fans who loved the character in the 70s and 80s are either completely out of the demo now, or have one foot out.  It makes zero sense to make creative decisions to cater to a parcel of the audience that can't be tracked, or that's [close to becoming] obsolete.

[Velocity23]

And DC would still have a Canary in the Flarrow universe with Sara.

[Morrigan2575]

Great Point Velocity - this show killed of Ra's Al Ghul...even if he was the lamest Al Ghul in history of TV/Comics/Cartoons...if you can kill of Ra's Al Ghul anyone but Green Arrow/Oliver Queen is fair game, IMO.  Hell, I wouldn't even be shocked if they killed Oliver/GA off at the end of the series, or simply had GA disappear into anonymity while someone else takes over the title.  These guys love ripping off Nolan, so a series ending with GA faking his death and Diggle running into Oliver + Companion on the street somewhere quite possible.

[dtissagirl]

I think the fact that they've established that superhero and villain names/suits/masks can be passed on to other people, and that there can be more than one version of any given mask lets them get away with killing and/or writing off pretty much anyone.

 

Well, probably not Barry. *g*

[Morrigan2575]

I think the fact that they've established that superhero and villain names/suits/masks can be passed on to other people, and that there can be more than one version of any given mask lets them get away with killing and/or writing off pretty much anyone.

 

Well, probably not Barry. *g*

Who know, there's always Jay Garrick, Wally West, Bart Allen, etc waiting in the wings to take over.  However, I doubt they'll get rid of Barry anytime soon, he's way to popular.  

 

I really do like the idea of Oliver faking his death at the end of the series, that would be one Nolan ripoff I'd let them have without much bitching.  Oliver deserves a happy ending, and given his love for being a Suburban House Husband I could totally see that happening.

[SmallScreenDiva]

You guys are giving me hope they'd drop LL and I really don't want to hope and be disappointed. I haven't changed my bet. I think it'll be Quentin, but I'm hoping it translates to Laurel leaving Star City because of all the bad memories and going hero-ing someplace else. 

[dtissagirl]

I still think it's gonna be Quentin because him dying causes the least amount of change in the story. But I can't rule out Laurel because the character is still not tracking enough to matter, and it would so happen that her dying also doesn't affect the story that much.

[nksarmi]

I don't believe that, personally. I think she'd stick out like a sore thumb on the other two shows. On LoT she'd end up being the lesser Canary next to Sara's badassness, and I can't possibly see how she could fit in on The Flash. They can't even do justice to the two female regulars they already have.

That's just my personal opinion though. *shrug*

 

But there is still Titans as an option if they all end up operating in the same universe.  And they could release KC from a contract and still have the option to bring her back as a guest star on any of the shows like they did with Roy.  Again, I think they will keep their options open with her in a way they wouldn't with someone who isn't a mask.

 

Oh and a person that I don't think we've considered is Donna.

[Morrigan2575]

Titans isn't part of the Flarrow Universe.

[nksarmi]

I think the fact that they've established that superhero and villain names/suits/masks can be passed on to other people, and that there can be more than one version of any given mask lets them get away with killing and/or writing off pretty much anyone.

 

Well, probably not Barry. *g*

 

Reverse Flash told Oliver he lives to be 80+ years old.  I don't care if that timeline was erased.   Oliver grows to be an old man and that's canon. :P

[Starfish35]

But there is still Titans as an option if they all end up operating in the same universe. And they could release KC from a contract and still have the option to bring her back as a guest star on any of the shows like they did with Roy. Again, I think they will keep their options open with her in a way they wouldn't with someone who isn't a mask.

Titans/Blackbirds isn't in the same universe. Not the same people involved.

I'm not arguing that they definitely are going to kill her off. I've said all along that I thought the more likely option, assuming they were to write her out, would be to put her on a bus. But I highly doubt they'd ever move her to another show. If they were going to do that, they'd have moved her to LoT and saved themselves the trouble of bringing Sara back from the dead.

Oh and a person that I don't think we've considered is Donna.

I included her on my list, with reasons I don't think it's her. I think Oliver would feel guilty if she was to be caught in the crossfire, plus she's not someone who's willingly made the choice for this life like the rest of them. Plus she's really popular, she's Felicity's family, and dropping her means losing a main PoV for their de facto leading lady. Long story short - I don't think there's any way it's her.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

I think anyone that's not a series regular is a major cop-out.

[Starfish35]

That's true too.

[dtissagirl]

TNT picked up two new shows today, and the Titans one wasn't it. It looks like it's dead, or at least stuck in development limbo. In anyway, it has nothing to do with Berlanti Prod.

[Morrigan2575]

TNT picked up two new shows today, and the Titans one wasn't it. It looks like it's dead, or at least stuck in development limbo. In anyway, it has nothing to do with Berlanti Prod.

I've been wondering if it got abandoned for awhile now. Shame, I was really looking forward a Teen Titans based show.

[Trini]

Other than Quentin, I don't think TPTB have the balls to kill off a regular or a favorite. Everyone else is fair game.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Trini

[nksarmi]

I think anyone that's not a series regular is a major cop-out.

 

I'm kind of anticipating a cop-out personally. 

 

But if it must be a series regular - I think it's Quentin.  I mean, don't get me wrong - I don't believe that Laurel/KC is vital to the show by any stretch of the imagination.  In fact, I think they have gone out of their way to make her not fit in well.  But it just doesn't feel like they are going to let her go unless the actress wants out for some reason.

 

Plus I honestly thought Quentin was a dead-man walking last season.  Now that he's getting some love from Donna? I definitely think he's marked for dead.

 

And - on top of everything else - I could see them interpreting the hugely negative backlash they got for killing Sara as they shouldn't kill any female characters.  For that reason, Laurel, Thea, AND Felicity might all be safe until the last season of the show.

[bijoux]

Great Point Velocity - this show killed of Ra's Al Ghul...even if he was the lamest Al Ghul in history of TV/Comics/Cartoons...if you can kill of Ra's Al Ghul anyone but Green Arrow/Oliver Queen is fair game, IMO.  Hell, I wouldn't even be shocked if they killed Oliver/GA off at the end of the series, or simply had GA disappear into anonymity while someone else takes over the title.  These guys love ripping off Nolan, so a series ending with GA faking his death and Diggle running into Oliver + Companion on the street somewhere quite possible.

I fully support the notion of the GA mask being passed on like Zorro. But I don't really want Oliver's story ending with him not being allowed to be Oliver Queen any more. It was different with Bruce. Bruce was stuck in Oliver's Season1 mode where he used his real name as another persona and a cover up for his Batman endeavors. He wasn't really living as Bruce Wayne. And this is something Oliver has finally started to do this season. He's embracing life as Oliver Queen. I don't want that taken from him. I want him to pass on the mantle of GA and continue his life as Oliver when the time comes.

[Velocity23]

For me the choice of not giving LL even a slight trace of personal life outside of being vigilante is quite weird. I am feeling Thea is getting all the beats that should be going to LL/BC if she was really that important to the show. And the EP giving her all those closures with Oliver, Sara and Quentin are really telling. That goodbye scene with Sara felt really final. They also giving everyone some kind of connection to Laurel. From Diggle to Thea to even Malcolm. They also trying to giving Felicity and Laurel some friendship beats. She also forgave Quentin very easy after his "betrayal". And that was one of the plot points mentioned for Laurel before the season started. It feels like they giving her closure. And if i am not wrong they basically gave LL a similar line that they deleted from O/F scene from the premiere. Also the whole deja-vu comment. Its just seemed weird at that moment.

 

I reallly think the death is someone who was in the crossover. And Quentin was nowhere near that battle.

[Morrigan2575]

I do like that Final Destination theory where the universe tries to reset itself after Barry time traveled.

[Velocity23]

Its in my head ever since Andrew Kreisberg hinted at this type of events in  the interview after the cross-over. He also mentioned Sara in that interview. What exactly was the price for bringing Sara back to the land of the living? Because doesnt resurrection demand some kind of sacrifice. Like a death for a death?

 

KREISBERG: The key is the consequences. When Sara was brought back, when Thea was brought back, when Barry changed the timeline, or any of these things that feel like the right thing to do, there’s always a price to be paid. Whether or not that price is paid immediately, or whether that price gets paid later on, in ways that you don’t foresee, it always comes back to haunt you. On Legends, Vandal is the big bad, but the big bad truly is time itself. Time wants to go in one direction. When people die, the universe wants them to stay dead. Anything you do to change that is going to have a cost, and these characters are constantly paying that price. As much as they have these powers, abilities and technologies that they have, there’s always a price to be paid for using them.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Velocity23

[Happy Harpy]

I fully support the notion of the GA mask being passed on like Zorro.

Now I'm seeing Oliver telling stories of Green Arrow to his and Felicity's baby in his crib. With his goofy lovey-dovey dork face. Like the last scene of the Mask of Zorro.

 

My money is still on Roy in the grave. Unfortunately.  I miss him. Alex is nicety-nice but blandity-bland and for me, Roy was Thea's "Felicity", the one who made her better and vice versa and I want him back still. She made her first really badass move to save him. They're my babies.

 

 I've been thinking the same thing since mid-S1, Laurel has no place on this show. For me, she was the logical death at the end of S1 and she should be the one in the grave this season. Lance is imo ten times more interesting as a character especially right now, he as another daughter on another show so crossover potential. Plus, Donna.

When it comes to hopes I'm kind of torn, though. Laurel is imo the main reason why OTA is no more, so if she's gone I should finally get my OTA back. But BM aka the one night stand who got wayyy over her head is the most unbearable character belonging to the most nonsensical, show-ruining plot right now. So I would rejoice if she's the dead one. 

(And how dared the writers give her spawn the name of Mulder and Scully's child. I hate time travel and yet I want him time travel-erased. Hate!)

[Starfish35]

If Samantha is the one in the grave, I would expect that to mean that William would be coming to live with Oliver and Felicity. DO NOT WANT!!! So for that reason I would prefer Samantha stay alive.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm not worried about Laurel but i do hope DD goes after her whenever he and Quentin fall out resulting in a knock down, drag out fight with Laurel/minion of the week.

[BkWurm1]

I'm not worried about Laurel but i do hope DD goes after her whenever he and Quentin fall out resulting in a knock down, drag out fight with Laurel/minion of the week.

I guess DD just coming after her could be what all the anvils were about. I suppose the could nearly kill everyone in the running for the grave so that no one is off the list.

Chances are it is Quentin. That's the rule I have to remind myself about. It is almost always the most likely choice even if we spend most of the season trying to convince ourselves otherwise. Stacked up against Quentin we have, heart condition, in the older demo, not directly on Team Arrow, in the Big Bad's line of sight, has made peace (mostly) with his daughters being able to take care of themselves, pissed off a lot of fans with what he did last season, and has been given a love interest whose reaction to his death would make the audience care even if they are still mad at him for last season.

I've been vocal about not wanting it to be Lance but yeah, it's him in the grave.

[theacostov]

Yeah I think it's Lance too.

Teeny tiny amount worried about Diggle. He didn't really have any anvils and that worried me.

[kismet]

Yes, in their post-premiere interviews they said that the death is real, and it won't be undone somehow.

I don't trust the writers to not go back on their words. I don't want to hash through all of their answers again, because I feel like we already did that before. But I don't recall their answers being that definite that they won't go back on them. They used wiggle words at best.

I am eager to hear how they answer questions about it now. Because now they know for sure who it is and probably the basics of how it is done. So now they have to really answer the questions to evade thd truth without downright lying.

I still think its going to be a Lance. For me a LL has always seemed to be the choice that packs the biggest punch and is mord expendable to the story. QL is still needed as a police connection and now provides humorous moments with MamaSmoak. Even in her best ep to date the most LL was used for was her scream and to answer phones off screen.and even then she still had to remind OQ & TA that she "helped too".

We can make a reason to put a supporting guest cast in the ground. But I think some (Lyla, DS) would be detrimental to the story. William has too much story left in him & BM is needed alive to keep him offscreen. So really the only one I could think of that would make an impact is Alex. And he role is prominent or whatever word WM used to describe the grave victim. Plus since DD is targeting OQ and not TA, Alex is the public face that puts him in the crosshairs.

So it all depends on how much we trust the writers' answers. If I trust them without decoding their answers my first choice is LL because nothing has pulled her off the option table. If anything there were more in script anvils for her dropped in wf. If you parse the writers answers then I think it could be LL or Alex. But i still believe that fhe writers are not opposed to going against their previous answer and reversing the death sticking.

Edited December 11, 2015 by kismet

[Cerulean Blue]

While I completely don't trust the writers, I do think they're going to make this death stick and have it be a main cast member just because they've gotten called out a lot recently on how little deaths on Arrow matter (not just by fans, but by professional reviewers as well).

 

It's pretty much become a joke how little nerve the writers seem to have when it comes to killing off characters--they chickened out on having Sara be dead (a good call in my opinion because I like Sara, but it very much cheapened the gravitas of what they were trying to achieve narratively with her death) and then Roy's death turned out to be fake too. 

 

So I think they might be chomping at the bit to prove how they can kill off--and really, permanently kill off--a main character. Killing off Lyla, Samantha, Alex, William, or any host of recurring characters wouldn't achieve that. Quentin seems likely, but he's too easy. Killing off the one older character with a heart condition isn't particularly ballsy.

 

But killing off the Black Canary would definitely give off the "no one is safe" vibe they keep trying to project while at the same time being the safest, easiest character to eliminate from a writer's perspective. They get the glory of being "shocking" and "daring" without actually having the guts to kill of a character who actually matters to the plot.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Cerulean Blue