Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Zalyn]

I would love to see a hardened Thea come back after some badass training with Malcom.  There is some great potential for some good dramatic interactions between her and Oliver after she becomes the stronger person she is now determined to be.

[apinknightmare]

I've been thinking, since there's really not much of a way they can keep an Arrow-esque vigilante operation going without some kind of cash flow, is Oliver going to be able to get his family's company back within short order, or is Team Arrow somehow going to become flush with cash? I've been wondering if maybe that's how they're going to bring Felicity's father into the picture. He could be a villain, not a villain or just in general a shitty father who wants to pay his daughter off to get back in her good graces?

 

It's wild speculation of course, just something my brain cooked up while I was working on a mind-numbing spreadsheet. Could lead to some meaty conflict if it happened.

[GirlWednesday]

That's why I think they should pull a heist on a criminal. What a way to start a new season. Solving the cash poor issue without having to deal with the horrendous financial plot of season 2. Laurel DA can be at odds with them over it and that will keep her out of the arrow lair.

[bluebonnet]

I hope he just gets his company back or just pretend that the show never said they were poor despite owning majority share in a company with increasing stock.  Or maybe sell the Queen castle.  That should bring in a tidy sum.  I liked that Felicity 'tortured' the dude with her wifi and bank transfers, but that money went to charity.  I don't think I'd feel as comfortable if the bright and shining hero (I'm taking about Felicity here) becomes a thief in order to pay Team Arrow's bills.  

[GirlWednesday]

Now that you mentioned it, a good plot for next year could be that Felicity has been robin hooding for glade victims and the criminals come after her and try to force her to get the money back by pulling a heist. I'd like that to see that.

[KirkB]

Now that Isabel is dead, again, what happens to the company? Maybe Oliver (or Thea, with help from Malcolm) can get control?

[quarks]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but in the Oliver Loses His Money From Major Contrivance Plot, the Queens lost "all" of their assets because Thea didn't sign the papers, right? This is why Oliver is now broke and looking for a job.

 

And these assets included the mansion, right? (Right? I think of a mansion as an asset.) Because if he hasn't lost the mansion, why is he claiming that he's broke?

 

So if he lost the mansion, how was he still able to get in? Wouldn't Isabel have changed the locks? And does this mean that we won't be seeing the mansion at all next season? And in the meantime, where is Oliver living?  Not the mansion - even apart from whether or not he owns it they did the whole dust cover thing - and not the Foundry and the cot because the Foundry is all smushed. Is he shacking up with Diggle?

 

On a related note, why ARE there dust covers on the furniture? If the mansion was an asset that they lost, then Thea isn't coming back to it, so she or the new owners should be selling the furniture, not putting dust covers on it.  Or, if the new owners are planning on selling the place, surely it would be easier to sell if it either: showed what it looks like furnished and all clean, or, completely empty?  (I've gone house hunting. I've done empty houses, but never houses with furniture under dust covers.)

 

And, also, who has the assets now?  I mean, presumably they went to somebody, especially since the stock price went up.

[bluebonnet]

Frankly, that financial plot was so confusing and ridiculous that the only thing I know is they are supposed to be poor.  I don't blame Thea for not signing the papers because it was really dumb.  Unless it's normal for owners/CEO's of large companies to tie all of their personal assets into said company.  I have no idea but that just seems really incredibly stupid.  Did Isabel also own their clothes?  All that artwork?  Books and furniture (and I guess those dust covers)?  Did she claim their underwear, too?  I bet Oliver Queen's underwear on Ebay could fetch a decent price.  That is, if he still technically owns it.  

[KirkB]

I don't even get what the point of making him poor is anyway. Are they trying to make Oliver seem more down to earth or put him on the level of all the little people he was ignoring when he was saving them from criminals every night? Oh wait. While you don't need to be a billionaire to be a costumed vigilante it helps if you at least have a a place to hideout and maybe some equipment. I guess he can whittle some new arrows. And I don't particularly want to watch Oliver Queen, Wal-Mart employee by day, Arrow by night.

Edited May 17, 2014 by KirkB

[GirlWednesday]

Ok! Since I'm getting my hair done and am stuck in this chair for a while. I'm going to take a Stab at this. Here it is. How GirlWednesday would take over a company and destroy the original majority shareholders.

QC was traded publicly, 55% of total shares. Queen family holds 45% of the shares. After the undertaking, 55% shareholders panicked and sold onto the market. Isabel through Stellmoor bought 50%. The last 5% shareholder sold out and Walter/Bank bought in. The board of directors have shareholders and independent members. Isabel convinced them to vote non-confidence in Oliver/CEO and usurped his position. Next I would convince the board of directors to approve a stock split. This achieves two things. One - it removes Oliver as a future threat because it erodes Oliver's 45% stock holdings in QC. Two - it will devalue company on the market (earnings per share just got halved), scaring away potential angel investors, etc. Stellmoor buys up the new shares. At the same time, to destroy Queens financially, I/Isabel would call the shareholder loans that Robert/Moira and then Oliver would have had and it would have been secured by personal guarantees or guaranteed by the family trust . The only way to protect the personal assets would have been to move them from being held personally/by the trust. Guarantees must have been provided by the trust. Only explanation as to why Thea's signature was SO important. They couldn't move the assets out of the trust without her approval. Thea doesn't sign. Isabel as CEO calls the shareholder loans and QC seizes the trust assets. If family trust had provided any other guarantees for other investments, bank would have panicked and gotten a court order to freeze all other assets held by Queen family to limit the bank's exposure on the guarantees. Instant poor. I handwaved some details, because I'm evil and don't care about the law. you finance experts can correct me.

How does Oliver get out of this? Get Walter/Stellmoor to vote non confidence in the board that voted Isabel as CEO and approved the stock split. Oliver gets a board of his dad's friends that will side with him against Stellmoor. Oliver still has 45% of the shares prestocksplit so he is still the second largest stockholder. Even if it is not worth as much $$$ as it used to be. He needs figure out if Stellmoor is friend or foe and act accordingly.

Only reason for this poor plot is if Stellmoor is a player next season. Otherwise why bother..

Edited May 17, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[statsgirl]

If there is a stock split, wouldn't the Queen family still keep the same percentage as before, just each share is worth less?

 

I'm in awe. I've read it over three times and I still don't understand it all.  I really need to learn some more about finances.

 

 

So if he lost the mansion, how was he still able to get in? Wouldn't Isabel have changed the locks?

Usually locks aren't changed when a house goes up for sale, and it would take a long time to sell anything as expensive as the Queen mansion.  Of course, Isabel could have organized it but it was only a short time since the crash happened (about a week between that and Moira's death?  Oliver was in the house on the day of Moira's funeral, which should have been the day before All Hell Breaks Loose in the last set of episodes and part of that time Isabel was busy being dead.  If anything I would have expected the codes on the alarm system to be changed but not the locks.

 

The furniture under dust covers was bizarre because wouldn't the Queen's still own the furniture?  I can see mortgaging the house and the art collection to get money for QC, but who thinks to mortgage furniture?  Although when Oliver took Felicity there, there was much less furniture left, I noticed that the table in the foyer was missing.  I guess there was enough furniture left so that Slade could still use a bug or two.

 

 

I don't even get what the point of making him poor is anyway.

Something different in terms of story telling for next season and it happened in the comics.

 

I can see Felicity getting a job right away with her IT skills, and Diggle as a body guard for... the possibilities are huge... but if Oliver can't, what would he live off of? Would he agree to let Diggle and Felicity help  him, or would he start serving up burgers at the Big Belly?

 

And then there's the $1 million severance pay he gave Diggle and Felicity at the end of last season. Felicity used her to re-stock the Arrow Cave but what did Diggle do with his?

[GirlWednesday]

Hmmm been playing on the private side of the public/private side of things too long. I was trying to think of a mechanism that devalues the company quickly. What would accomplish that is if Isabel took the value (say QC is worth 1billion) and somehow decreased its value to the stockholders. There was a brief beat where a character said shares are devalued.. Don't remember the details.

So she Either made bad investments that lost money ( but not enough time had passed) or did something that directly decreased the equity in the company... That's why I went with stock split but maybe that's not the right vehicle. Anyone here a CPA in the states? Please share a theory. I'm sure the writers did some research on this. Or talked to their in house accountants.

But based on my experience, only way for Isabel as QC CEO to go after Queens personal assets is if Queens had a loan from QC and secured it with their personal assets.

This happens in companies started by/controlled by families. When family members need money, they take out "shareholder loans" at low interest/zero interest. As shareholders/directors, they would have provided personal asset security guarantees for banks in order to borrow money to grow, etc.

To protect family members from legal complications from the growing company. Part of the ownership and personal assets are transferred into a trust. All family members are members of the trust. This protects them to a certain degree. I don't know American legal system and how it works there but the way Queens accountant described the need to move assets, it's sounds like they were exposed at whatever level their other personal assets are held together in one entity. Trusts are normally a good thing because it's supposed to protect the value of your assets, etc. but if Queens borrowed money from Qc (say Moira to salvage Queens gambit, pay for assassins to kill Meryln) and secured those loans by their assets. It exposed them all to potential seizure. If Oliver took back control, he should be able to get it all back QC.

Another option .. Maybe a more likely scenario is that QC is a consolidated group of companies and one of those companies held Queens personal assets in trust. When Isabel took over, she went after that company as CEO of the parent company. There was a small window where Queens could have moved it out of the trust company controlled by QC and they missed the window because Thea didn't sign the papers. This theory doesn't make sense to me because QC is publicly traded. No way RObert Queen took QC public and left his personal assets In a company controlled by a board.

The dust covers made me think of bankruptcy/insolvency cases where courts /banks seize assets and close down the house, kick people out of them and then things get hung up in court.

Edited May 17, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[SleepDeprived]

I understood about 30% of what you're talking about, GirlWednesday. But thank you for trying to make sense of the financial contrivance to make the Queens poor plot point.

 

The only thing I can contribute to your musings is regarding Stellmoor International, the company that Isabel worked for. In the comics, Stellmoor International/Industries was founded by Simon Lacroix, also known as Komodo, who has a vendetta against Oliver Queen. So, even if Stellmoor becomes a player in Season 3, I highly doubt they would be portrayed as a good guy company but rather as evil central. I don't think they would help Oliver get his CEO position or Queen Consolidated back. Malcolm Merlyn, on the other hand, being the shrewd businessman that he is, could, hypothetically, get an in with Stellmoor. And with Thea as his apprentice then, perhaps, we might see Thea Dearden Queen-Merlyn (boy, what a mouthful!) heading up QC some day.

[quarks]

Usually locks aren't changed when a house goes up for sale, and it would take a long time to sell anything as expensive as the Queen mansion.

 

 

Agreed on this, but I thought the implication was that the Queens had lost all their assets. So the house wasn't sold exactly, but Isabel just took it along with the other assets.  Usually when houses change ownership the new owners change the locks, and given that Isabel took the time to go to Verdant to serve eviction papers, I can't see her neglecting this little detail.

 

And, as someone who just did househunting a few years back, when the previous owners vacate the premises for whatever reason before the house is sold, a big Special Lock is put on the front door with an access code that real estate agents can use to let prospective owners see the house and cleaning crews can access for regular visits.  The access code is changed monthly, which means that occasionally you stand outside the door in the rain while the infuriated real estate agent calls the real estate agency handling the sale and says, hey I told you I was bringing people by to see the house. 

 

Anyway, I'm still left with the main question: do Oliver and Thea still own the mansion? If not, is "getting the mansion back" going to be a subplot for next year? The show did make it clear that "Oliver tries to get his company back" will be one of next season's plot lines, and it's one plot line that I could actually see Laurel contributing to - although Walter would make more sense there. I'm just wondering what they will do with the mansion until that plot line is resolved.

 

GirlWednesday, the idea that the Queens might have secured a QC loan with personal assets makes sense, and probably could be what the writers were going for. I wish a line about that had been inserted into the script.

 

It was never clear, but I figured with a name like "Queen Consolidated" QC was a consolidated group of companies, like, to pick a random example, CBS, and the company that owns about 45% of CBS. 

[GirlWednesday]

How QC has always been described on the show has been little confusing. My guess is that start of season two and the company crisis with Isabel, the writers were trying to go for what happened in batman begins. Up to that point, it made perfect sense. Then QC basically has three shareholders in season two. I think it's a SEC requirement to have independent directors on the board of public company. What the writers went for and I found confusing is that Oliver signed over and made her temporary CEO, Isabel called the board meeting, she ousted Oliver as CEO. So I guess he was never a board director. You would think One Queen would have been. But hand wave ... Maybe it had to do with bad press of the undertaking, who knows.

I'll have to go back and rematch those episodes to see if I can gleen any more sense out of it. Quarks, I think that's what the scene with the accountant was for. But that beat was too fast.

Edited May 17, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[KirkB]

Those of your with more understanding of the subject than me, I have a question. By the end of season two, who actually owns QC? Someone has to be in control of the majority of the shares. The bank? The board? And with Isabel's death, which I presume will have to be public this time, is there any way controlling interest returns to the Queens? Or do they go up for public purchase? Because if it's anything like the latter, couldn't Malcolm buy them and run the company, which would be a good reason to have John Barrowman on more? I don't pretend to understand any of this but whether the company is dissolved and all its assets are sold off or its gets bought out by someone else the money, one way or another, has to go somewhere, right?

[Carrie Ann]

I can't begin to understand the Queens' financial situation, what's happening with QC, but I don't think the writers understand that stuff either, so trying make sense of it in regard to how the real world works might be futile anyway.

 

But in terms of the fallout, if I had to guess, I think that was probably the last we'll see of the mansion. Now that Thea's checked out, I think they'll have Oliver living in a loft or something. And I don't think he and Thea will be roomies ever again. So the mansion is sort of overkill, and from a production perspective, it saves them some money to let go of that location. I don't actually imagine Oliver getting a normal job, so maybe Walter will help him try to get the company back? Maybe they'll go after subsidiaries one at a time.

[JenMD]

Yeah, the producers have said we're losing a couple of locations next year and getting some new ones.  If I had to guess, I'd say the mansion, the old foundry and probably QC are gone.  I include QC because even if Oliver gets its back, I don't think they'll have him run it, if just for the opportunity to have him do something different, plus I think they didn't really incorporate him as CEO and the difficulties that would present regarding his night job nearly as much or well as they could, imo.

[GirlWednesday]

If Isabel bought all of QC shares through Stellmoor, then Stellmoor/bank/queens own the shares. I wrote earlier about what possibly happened to make the Queens poor.

Death stroke episode - Oliver had to attend the annual board of directors. By this time, he had missed a month of being at QC. Isabel has been acting As defacto CEO. After Thea was kidnapped, Isabel says that board had to nominate new officers (SEC thing) At the annual meeting that took place earlier that day. The board vote to finalize the officers of the company had to be done by CEO within 24 hours. Oliver appoints CEO temporarily to Isabel to take care of it. Directors made Isabel CEO permanent and unseated Oliver as CEO. Isabel retasks applied sciences to make mirakuru.

Man under the hood - team arrow blow up applied sciences. New appreciation for team arrow all in leather. Didn't appreciate it enough the first time. :o)

Meeting with the accountant. He says Isabel laid the groundwork for months and even though queens are majority shareholders, Isabel diluted the value of the shares. That could imply that Isabel convince the board to issue new shares, diluting the value of the old shares so the shares individually are worthless and "on paper" queens are virtually broke. Implying that majority of queens net worth was from QC shares. Accountant says Queens have assets still and they have to move the assets into a NEW trust that Isabel cannot touch. All beneficiaries from the current trust have to sign off and then lawyers/accountants can move into the new trust.

I think Isabel could only go after trust if it provided guarantees for shareholder loans from QC. That's probably how Queens had everyday cash.

Once the trust assets were seized because Thea didn't sign the move into a new trust, Everything was frozen and titles were transferred to QC.

Where the narrative should go is Stellmoor comes into play next season. Honestly I would love it if Merlyn helps Thea get everything back. It will give her something to do besides focus on team arrow.

[bluebonnet]

GirlWednesday, you've done a brilliant job at piecing together how the Queens went broke.  Thanks so much!

 

I don't understand finances all that much apart from the basics that I need to know for myself and family.  I definitely don't understand when it gets to huge wealth.  Hope you don't mind me sending more questions your way.  

 

So, Tommy had a trust that he lived off.  Of course, Merlyn has no control of his company because he's supposed to be dead but he probably had offshore resources and Tommy is dead so his trust doesn't matter to the story now anyway.  Wouldn't Thea and Oliver have had trusts?  Is it normal to tie up kid's money so tightly with a company?  I try to compare it to my personal experiences and it just doesn't work.  For example, say I create accounts when my kids are born and eventually these will be available to them when they become adults to use for college or whatever.  While I might have that account earning money in some way (stocks, mutual funds, whatever, though I've never done anything financially risky), there's no way I would gamble all that was put into the account so there will always be hard cash available, at least as much as I initially deposited.  Would a trust not work this way?  Wouldn't Thea's and Oliver's own personal accounts be fine?  If not, why?  

[GirlWednesday]

You are probably thinking of trust funds. Season 2 ep 1, Isabel tells Oliver his trust fund doesn't have enough money to buy the remaining 5%. Implying his personal trust fund had limited funds. I'm sure that both Oliver and Thea's personal accounts are fine as long as they didn't sign any personal guarantees. Thea could have signed a personal guarantee for verdant (the club land and building could have been held in the family trust) but to operate the business and get loans to start up operations oliver/tommy had to borrow startup funds. Something else that could have happened is that the bank could have frozen everything including personal accounts if they had a stake in this.

That's the thing with being business owners/ executives/directors, you typically have to get personal liability insurance because you do have to provide guarantees to banks, etc. Successful businessman rarely invest personal funds into a venture. They provide small startup cash, provide personal guarantees secured by personal assets and then get banks to provide the rest.

Now that tommy is gone and Meryln is dead, technically Thea is still very rich if everything related to the Meryln estate was in limbo due to lack of heir apparent. This might be a good reason for Meryln to seek Thea out initially.

Oh ... The trust I'm referring to above is a family trust. High net worth families typically move their assets (shares in investments, shares of company family owns, land building, etc) into the trust for tax planning, blah blah. Trust fund is basically a really big bank account that is protected in the name of someone else, kids of rich parents.

Edited May 17, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[bluebonnet]

Gotcha.  This is awesome because now it's much easier to buy the money plot and I'm actually looking forward to seeing how Team Arrow work it out.  Thanks, GirlWednesday!

[KirkB]

While I wouldn't be surprised if Malcolm had millions squandered away somewhere apart from Merlyn Industries (or whatever his company name is), I am a bit surprised Robert and Moira didn't. Also, as I was reading the last few posts I was just thinking that might be another reason for him to seek her out. The only thing is, as I understand it, Thea is officially recognized as being the daughter of Robert and Moira Queen, even if biologically she is actually the daughter of Moira Queen and Malcolm Merlyn. So she would have to have a DNA test and whatever other hurdles are necessary for her to legally be recognized as Thea Merlyn, if she decides to go that route. Though I'm not sure that's a good idea, considering the fallout that came from being related to a woman who had a part in the Undertaking, would she really want the world to know she is the daughter of the man who actually CAUSED it?

Edited May 17, 2014 by KirkB

[GirlWednesday]

You are welcome. The dialogue on this part of the narrative was pretty succinct. I had to rewatch the scenes with the accountant three times before I got it. From the storytelling perspective, writers have actually done something very smart. They kept it vague enough so the future is a blank slate.

- If they chose to keep QC/Queen scion story alive and going, they laid the basics down. Oliver has QC shares, but is not on the board and does not have control. Qc has his family's assets from the trust. His personal finance situation is a grey area enough, that it is an uphill battle to get the company back. From a character development perspective, I'd like to see him step up and learn to appreciate what he took for granted as CEO. And if Stellmoor is evil.

- on the other hand, if the writers wAnted to move away from Qc, they could have Stellmoor run the company just fine and keep team arrow out of it completely. They could say that Stellmoor liquidated the family trust assets to help rebuild applied sciences. And we would never hear about getting queens money back because it's all gone.

Yeah Thea is going to need some therapy after all this. Lol

[JenMD]

-Oliver has QC shares,

 

If Oliver, and presumably Thea, still have shares, how are they poor?  Shares went up after Oliver was ousted, per a news report.  Even if he has no control over the company, he should be all set financially.  Also, I have a hard time believing that their financial advisors didn't diversify their assets into places not related to QC, just per the normal order of business, and that there aren't other accounts, as KirkB suggests above, that would provide income.  Even if Oliver used everything he had to try to buy the stock necessary before going in with the bank/Walter, I have a hard time believing he'd touch Thea's money without leaving her sufficient income available.  And honestly, I also have a hard time believing these writers did any kind of research more than the superficial, they certainly didn't spend enough time proving it (and they've shown research isn't their strong suit, see: anything to do with the law/trials/etc).

[GirlWednesday]

Yeah he still has shares. The stock price did go up. But for him to get cash that's substantial and be worth anything to Oliver personally, he'd have to sell all of it. Lol... I'm getting flashbacks of an old Eric stolz movie with Christopher Plummer.'

[slayer2]

 

I just want to say, if "Unthinkable" turns out to be that Felicity is actually evil (DAMN YOU FAN SPECULATION FOR PUTTING THAT THOUGHT INTO MY HEAD because it really should be unthinkable) then I for one will need a lot of mint chocolate chip ice cream. Mixed with Godiva liquor. A lot of it.

Omigod they have that flavour? That's totally one of those good news/bad news things. 

Who's up for the spec that homeless Oliver has to move in with a member of Team Arrow? Probably Diggle but I'm hoping for Felicity....just saying.

Edited May 20, 2014 by slayer2

[statsgirl]

One of the reasons to regret the time-jump -- we won't see Oliver looking for a home.

 

If Lyla got pregnant during Suicide Squad (March 19th), there is going to be a 7 months pregnant Lyla at Diggle's apartment, if she got pregnant earlier, the baby could already be there. Oliver moving in with Felicity is the stuff of fanfic, of which there will probably be lots over the summer.

 

Maybe he'll be living in the new Arrow lair.  I hope there are shower facilities for when the guys get sweaty.

 

Worse, he could be living with Roy! 

 

I wonder if Diggle is going to take assignments for ARGUS to earn money for his new family, given that Oliver can't pay him any more and Lyla shouldn't be working.

 

Thanks for all the information, GirlWednesday.  I'm going to take my notes away now and study them.

 

ETA:  Here's an interesting thought from the TV Fanatic reviewer

 

Will Lance die? I don't think so. It does call into question whether he might run for that open mayoral position, however. Maybe hitting the streets will be too much for him. He has the best head on his shoulders in the city and is in the best position to work with the heroes to protect it.

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/05/arrow-review-the-journey-is-complete/

Edited May 20, 2014 by statsgirl

[JTMacc99]

Heh.

 

I understand financial machinations, but I also understand the CW and superhero stuff.

 

And I have chosen to explain the "Oliver loses the company" story in my head entirely with logic from the latter. I figure that if I can so easily accept people catching arrows out of mid-air a millisecond before it goes through their forehead, I can also accept that some sort of financial mumbo-jumbo led to Oliver being broke. And I will also accept that some sort of nonsensical financial situation could make him rich again. And most importantly, I certainly don't want the show to spend more time explaining reverse stock splits and board of director votes.

[writersblock51]

Hi - a friend shared this link with me about some suggestions for Season 3.  I wasn't sure if this was the right spot for it.

 

http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-3-10-things-must-happen.php

 

I liked the breakdown of each suggestion, too.  I agree with most of them.

[slayer2]

Wow, that was an interesting read. Thanks for that.

[icandigit]

 

t is clear that Laurel can handle herself, having tangled with a few thugs before, but there is a huge difference between punching a lowlife in the face and tangling with someone like Slade Wilson – her kidnapping portfolio should be evident to this.

Read more at http://whatculture.com/tv/arrow-season-3-10-things-must-happen.php/2#RMPI3LBghLoH8J9q.99

lmao

Edited May 21, 2014 by icandigit

[Morrigan2575]

I strongly disagree on tying Arrow into the DCCU.  I also think getting Nightwing or Harley on this show is pretty much impossible with Gotham coming on the air in the Fall.  But I strongly agree with #9 and wouldn't be opposed to Ra's appearing.

[writersblock51]

Morrigan, I'm iffy on the DC U stuff, too.  The part of that I agreed with was if there's going to be a Green Arrow appearance in the movies, it should be SA filling that role. 

 

I'd love to see Harley Quinn on the Villain side and Dick Grayson on the Hero side but yeah, I think DC is holding tight to those, for whatever reasons.

 

I didn't know that Jason Issacs had a link to Ra's - if the show ultimately brings Ra's on screen, I'd love to see Jason Issacs in the role though there are a few other actors who would also be great.

[slayer2]

Have there been any other JLAers on this show besides Flash and Black Canary? I wonder if maybe Cyborg might show up or if Diggle could somehow inherit that in an "accident" or something.

Edited May 21, 2014 by slayer2

[statsgirl]

Handled well, she could end up being an excellent adversary to Oliver who will go through a full series of emotions having to battle his own baby sister – a girl whose good heart he praised.

 

I think this is what I like the most, since Oliver said that she was the best of them. It would be a good twist, and tie in to Oliver's determination to keep secrets.

 

Other than that, I'm meh on more of the DC world showing up because the comics are not why I started watching the show in the first place and there's the risk that it could get too crowded on scree. Already they had a problem balancing everyone this season.  But I do appreciate that they need more of an audience.  Did the numbers really go down that much this season?  I thought the show was doing better than in s1.

 

 

Many cite Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin’s lack of star power as a reason they shouldn’t be involved...It’s unfair that Amell pours his heart and soul into a role, and spends his free time with fans only to be replaced because he’s not a household name.

Henry Cavill who?  Since the movies are not doing that well on their own (justified in terms of Man of Steel) unlike the Marvel movies, I think having Stephen Amell bring along the Arrow fans would be a draw, not a liability.

[slayer2]

Man of Steel sucked IMO and HC was the worst Superman I've ever seen (and I've seen 5 of them now) the DC franchise would only be lucky to have SA in a world where Ben Affleck is Batman they can't exactly afford to be elitist. Arrow has more street credit then Batman vs Superman anyway. I really want to see more DC characters show up, people with actual powers, it's a bit dull with Arrow, Black Canary (sans scream) Roy sans Mirakuru and now speedy and it's all just martial arts. I love martial arts but I'd love to see a season with an ally or villain with super-powers. It's one of the reasons why I'm so excited about the Flash.

[KirkB]

CW may be waiting to see how audiences react to the Flash to decide how many super powers they want to introduce on the show. And honestly, while I wouldn't mind seeing some of it myself you have to consider, there is a limit to what kind of metahuman a guy with a bow can really handle. Just look at how badly Oliver, Diggle, Sara and Roy (who was super strong) did against the relatively low powered Slade.

[slayer2]

Yeah they can't really introduce crazy metahuman villains and expect us to believe a normal guy with a bow can beat them. I know it's based on comics so there has to be suspension of disbelief but I think they have to make it somewhat believable. I hope season three gets back to more "real" things; no more super soldiers, please!

That makes sense, but who are Green Arrows chief arch-nemisi?

[writersblock51]

 

That makes sense, but who are Green Arrows chief arch-nemisi?

Are you asking in terms of the show that we've seen before or in the comics?

[KirkB]

On the show so far it has been Malcolm and Slade. As for the comics, being less familiar with GA than some DC characters I did a quick search and this is the list I came up with.

 

BRICK- Super hard skin.

CLOCK KING- No powers, also seen on the show.

CONSTANTINE DRAKON- Martial artist, may or may not be metahuman.

COUNT VERTIGO- Electronic device allowed him to affect people's balance and cause...well, vertigo. On the show, drug dealer.

CUPID- Martial artist, she later got enhanced strength.

DEATHSTROKE- Him we know. He's actually worse and more complicated in the comics.

DOCTOR LIGHT- Not surprisingly, given the name, manipulates light.

KOMODO- Martial artist (I sense a trend) and archer.

MERLYN- Tommy, not Malcolm, archer.

ONOMATOPOEIA- Athlete, martial artist (big surprise) and weapons expert.

RAINBOW ARCHER- Would you believe he's an archer?

 

There's a much longer list of lesser known villains I'm not going to bother with but if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_Arrow_enemies#Central_rogues.27_gallery

Edited May 22, 2014 by KirkB

[slayer2]

Great! Thanks Kirk!

[tv echo]

I agree that the "Oliver losing his fortune" storyline is ridiculous.  The whole point of incorporating is to protect your personal assets.  Also, losing your job as CEO should not affect your status as a shareholder.  Devaluing the stock of a company will drive the company into bankruptcy and it'll be bought by another company.  Where's Walter through all of this?

 

I seem to recall that Oliver gave Diggle and Felicty each a million dollars before he left for the island after Season 1.  Even if Felicity used some of her money to redo the Arrow Cave, they should still have enough money to set up the new Arrow Cave.  I still can't believe that Oliver has no money or valuable personal assets (family art, jewelry, property, etc.) at this point. 

[Password]

When did Oliver give Felicity and Dig a million dollars each?

[KirkB]

I can understand taking QC away from Oliver. From a dramatic standpoint, it could be interesting to see a guy who spent 3/4 of his life with access to nearly unlimited wealth dealing with not having all those resources available at his fingertips. Oliver and Thea may not understand how finances work so I can see why they don't have portfolios outside of the company on their own but Robert and Moira, being actively corrupt and thus aware of the vulnerability of their fortune, shouldn't have left every dollar locked up in QC. But from a TV show standpoint, Oliver should have at least enough funding to keep Team Arrow going, because I don't think anyone wants to watch him working at Wal-Mart. And while he doesn't need vast wealth to fund his heroics in the same way Batman does since his tech is not so hi, repairing the bows he actively uses to fight can't possibly be cheap, not to mention he no longer has QC connections to disguise the fact Oliver Queen is buying all the bows/bow equipment and arrows in Starling.

[statsgirl]

 

When did Oliver give Felicity and Dig a million dollars each?

It was in the comics.

 

There is a series of comics written by AK and MG about what happens after the finale, and after season 1 Oliver give Diggle and Felicity each $1 million as severance pay before he went to mope on his island (and get all sweaty but that's another topic).

 

I  saw an ad for the new one after Unthinkable. Has anyone read it?

 

 

I still can't believe that Oliver has no money or valuable personal assets (family art, jewelry, property, etc.) at this point.

I can believe that the art and jewelry could have been bundled into the general Queen fortune and thus lost when Isabel called in the loans.  But the furniture would probably still have been his because no one thinks of valuing the furniture like that (individually too small), and given the look of those antiques, worth enough to live on for a while. Not enough to get QC back, which is probably going to be the arc of the beginning of the season, but enough for him to live on for a while.

[Password]

So it was in the comics but not mentioned in the show. Agh for goodness sake. Here I thought Felicity is paid really well.

[JenMD]

I've been thinking about our Daddy-palooza theme we've got coming next season and had a thought about how Felicity's father might fit in, so I figured I'd toss this in the spec pile.

 

We've got:

 

Thea and her Evil Daddy issues

 

Diggle being a new daddy; he's got the benefit of all the dads we'll see of having a loving partner by his side in Lyla who is his equal in baddassery and knows exactly the dangers life presents.  There are still plenty of questions - will he want to pull back from Arrow duties, what dangers does their lifestyle presents, etc.?  My guess is they'll find a middle ground and a way to make it all work.

 

Oliver's unknown daddy situation will apparently make itself known.  He's certainly not in the headspace to become a parent at the moment.  He's going to be poor (as stupid as that story is, imo), so financial assistance will be a challenge.  He's going to be dealing with yet another Moira betrayal and she won't even be around for him to be mad at.  We have no clue yet as to how he'll find out - will the child's mother think it's "safe" to come forward with Moira dead? Does she come to him for financial/medical/emotional reasons?  Will Oliver not want to be involved in his child's life for reasons relating to his "because of the life I lead" stance?  They could go a million different ways with this.

 

Felicity's dad (and hopefully her mom) will be story next season and tying into the daddy issues above, I'd love for him to be a good guy who left his family to keep them safe from threats only to come back into his daughter's life to find her all grown up and partner to a vigilante, the kind of hero her dad is/was and knee deep in all the danger he left to keep her out of.  She grew up a hopeful and smart and loyal without him, but her abandonment issues are on him, certainly and they've missed all those years together. 

 

They'll probably go with Felicity's dad being a villain, but I figured I throw out something a little different.

 

[slayer2]

Oh god, daddypalooza, I didn't think of it that way and now I wish I hadn't. Fawk!

[tv echo]

I don't think Detective Lance will die.  However, it's possible that his injury may take him out of the field and he'll be promoted to police captain or even chief of police, since he took charge of the precinct during the mirakuru army attack and a lot of higher ups were killed.

 

I can see the EPs making Laurel the new DA.even though this would be completely ludicrous in the real world.  I'm sure there are plenty of more experienced - not to mention more ethical - ADAs who survived the attack.  However, if they decided to go another route, maybe Laurel could quit the DA's Office and enter the police academy during the hiatus.  She would get police training at least and, when the show returned in the fall, she could be a rookie police officer.  That way, she could get useful info on the streets to pass on to the Arrow.  She could also get another love interest in the form of her cop partner.  Unfortunately, I don't see the EPs going that route - I mean, then KC would be stuck wearing an unflattering police uniform all season rather than her fashionable, flattering outfits (which I have no idea how she afforded on her nonprofit and then government job salaries).

Edited May 28, 2014 by tv echo