Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[calliope1975]

I think I get what Kismet is asking for, though I don't think I'd stick around to watch it. The writers inability to recognize their faults is frustrating, especially when their EP enjoys trolling and telling the audience they're watching the show wrong. 

 

I do think if they are going to destroy the OTA dynamic, they may as well implode the whole show while they're at it, which I believe Oliver/Laurel would do. Better a major catastrophe that I can gladly run away from, then the slow death of S3 where each episode made me progressively bitter.

[bijoux]

kismet, I've got to admit I'm enjoying your posts in a perverse way. It's like a chose your own adventure and the worst possible path. But I think you need a shower. And a nap. ;)

[kismet]

Theoretically if they they wrote O/L back together it would probably implode the show & the ratings, so that in the end it would result in only 1 season remaining. So they could write Olicity drama & angst free because we all know in the final season of the show couples are allowed to be happy. So I could possibly get my happy ending.

 

I don't know what I really want the writers to do. But something needs to stop them from torpedoing the natural and organic O/F relationship with O/L designed concepts. I don't know what can shock them or make them realize that they are killing so much story & character potential by refusing to change the preconceived notions of romance on Arrow. I don't really want to see O/L back together. But that could at least cause enough damage, that they may actually take the time to assess the situation. Positive reviews don't help. Constructive criticism is spat upon. And negative reviews just put them on the defensive, which leads them to spit out the same old same, just different packaging.

 

I want the show I was promised in s2. And so far, with the exception of a handful of episodes in s3&4- I'm being sold imitation product in fancy packaging. I want the genuine goods. How to get what I want? ~ Not quite sure. Today, I'm taking the blow up the show to almost unwatchable standards route and pray for a rebirth.

kismet, I've got to admit I'm enjoying your posts in a perverse way. It's like a chose your own adventure and the worst possible path. But I think you need a shower. And a nap. ;)

You're probably right. I am going on 28+hrs awake due to extenuating life circumstances & too much caffeine. I probably should also lay off the Adele :)

[kismet]

I think I get what Kismet is asking for, though I don't think I'd stick around to watch it. The writers inability to recognize their faults is frustrating, especially when their EP enjoys trolling and telling the audience they're watching the show wrong. 

 

I do think if they are going to destroy the OTA dynamic, they may as well implode the whole show while they're at it, which I believe Oliver/Laurel would do. Better a major catastrophe that I can gladly run away from, then the slow death of S3 where each episode made me progressively bitter.

Thanks! I just want to take the hit and get up while I still have my dignity intact. Make the final blow quick & all the way through. Let me walk away with my head held high, knowing there was nothing left to salvage from their clusterfuck of ego & writing deficiencies.

 

The last two episodes had such lovely OTA, Olicity, TA & other character moments. Really sweet moments that you all raved about. Pure classic ARROW chemistry gold. And all I could think of is why are the writers ruining such lovely potential with their plots of crap, angst, topped with oversize serving of D.R.A.M.A and a side of bad action/stunt scenes. I should have enjoyed the moments, even if the overall episode was flawed. Instead, I was bitter. Weds night I sent 3 tweets (2 for Roy & 1 to rag on the writers for taking both epic & game-changer from interview fodder to official Arrow lines). And it was the first time I could live tweet since the MWP! I haven't read a review or recap since before the MWP. Not even JbuffyAngels crazy spin theories or Laura Hurley's insightful analysis. TPTB are ruining my show and I am powerless to stop it. I'm standing at a crossroads and I know at the end of each path I will most likely find disappointment & bitterness.

 

So I'm getting desperate to fix it. L/O getting back together again will probably destroy how I forever see O/F. But so will having to defend or understand OQ's actions through his annual surge in stupidity for plot purposes from Feb to May. Or having to pardon them for their inevitable insensitivities after they just patted themselves on the back for being so politically & socially progressive for a few episodes. Last year it was sexual orientation, this year it will be physical disabilities. And the big "death", just a cheap way to drum up interest - when really they lack the creativity to come up with anything actually jaw-dropping & stunning anymore. Other shows can have my jaw on the floor for whole commercial breaks without one cast member dying predictably same time each year. 

[tarotx]

After reading today's post in this thread now I really want Laurel in the grave >.< And I like Laurel enough and even think they could have done something with KC's talents. Arrow is just not fun (I mean the characters have no fun) or cartoonish enough to deal with a chemistry lacking main couple. Original Team Arrow's chemistry is the driving force of the show. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by tarotx

[wonderwall]

Lol Yeah sorry Kismet... But... No. I get why one would be upset with the show today. But I don't get why one would want to make it worse and torture themselves by watching it :p That being said, if the writers go down that route, not only would they just destroy everything I like about Olicity, but the writers would also destroy OTA. At least it'll be easier for me to quit if they went down that road. But I hope they don't because I still massively enjoy those two aspects of the show and I don't want it taken away from me. 

[lemotomato]

I think I'm going to have to stay out of this thread. I'm sorry, but in the words of Goth Felicity, I thought vomiting inside my mouth was just an expression.

[nksarmi]

You know what's funny?  I was having very similar thoughts as kismet earlier today.  I was just thinking that I'm so bummed about Felicity in a wheelchair, and Felicity's evil dad, and Oliver lying to Felicity, and probable breakup, and Felicity being angry in the limo and wanting Oliver to kill someone, and all the angst these writers are throwing or are foreshadowed to throw at her that I'm really NOT looking forward to the rest of the season.

 

The pending death - even if it's Lance - has me bummed out too.  Because I get to look forward to however many more episodes of wondering who the hell they are going to kill off.  I get to wonder if Thea will survive her issues with the pit.  I get to wonder if Darhk will discover Quentin's betrayal and kill him.  I get to wonder/dread whatever the hell is going to happen with this kid.  I get to anticipate the show telling me Nyssa can't kill Malcolm (puke).  I mean this is just not fun.

 

So yea, I'm ready for them to just break Felicity and Oliver up for good - no backsies.  I will bite my lip and watch Felicity turn cold and hard as she chooses to work with the man that broke her heart because it's her mission and her team too.  I will watch Oliver suffer in silence.  I don't want anymore damn cuteness while he's lying behind her back.  I don't want them to make Felicity suffer anymore for her relationship with Oliver. 

 

So yea, break them up.  Write Laurel and Oliver together (because she's stupid enough to go back to him when there is no way in hell she should), then have him cheat on her again, break her heart, kill her - whatever.  And let Oliver end the damn series alone the way he should. 

 

I might get over this feeling in a couple of months - but needless to say - I think I might ship Felicity and Sara or Felicity and Nyssa before I ship olicity again.

[bijoux]

Lol Yeah sorry Kismet... But... No. I get why one would be upset with the show today. But I don't get why one would want to make it worse and torture themselves by watching it :p 

 

I got the impression kismet's point was that if that happened, it would be easy and painless to walk away and stop watching the show.

[Starfish35]

I don't know. Maybe it's because I just had a show (Grimm) implode on me and I'm still very bitter. But I'm not at the point with the show where I'd rather it just blow itself up. There's a list of things I'm not thrilled about (and right now this new LoA storyline is at the top of the list), but I'm still, so far, enjoying it more than season three. *shrug* That may change by the end of the season, and depending on who is in the grave. But right now my knee jerk response to anything Lauriver is always going to be "gahhhh!!!! Kill it with fire!" Lol. Sorry about that. :)

[kismet]

I got the impression kismet's point was that if that happened, it would be easy and painless to walk away and stop watching the show.

Yep, I would walk away easy breezy. A little sadness, but nothing a little quality fanfic can't fix. Plus Arrow would join the elite class of shows I used to enjoy that I quite for their own stupidity. It's a very small list. I am a very loyal viewer once I've invested a few seasons. But some shows just struggle to get the concept of respect your audience and your characters.

Edited February 5, 2016 by kismet

[nksarmi]

Yep, I would walk away easy breezy. A little sadness, but nothing a little quality fanfic can't fix. Plus Arrow would join the elite class of shows I used to enjoy that I quite for their own stupidity. It's a very small list. I am a very loyal viewer once I've invested a few seasons. But some shows just struggle to get the concept of respect your audience and your characters.

 

Yea I can't say I'm all that loyal, but I try.  Charmed lost me on it's last season and I've never seen the series finale (it almost lost me when they broke up Piper and Leo).  Once lost me temporarily with the "we aren't bad we are just written that way" Author plot and then for good when they turned Emma into the Dark One.  I might go back for the series finale, but that's probably it.

 

I'm on the edge with Arrow.  My significant other has stopped watching.  I almost skipped the last episode and only watched because I was spoiled that Roy would be back.  I just feel like there is nothing left on this show to look forward to.  I know shows are hesitant to put couples together because they think people will stop watching, but it's always the angst that makes me check out.  I can't stand stupid internal angst.  I could watch a couple deal with all sorts of hell get thrown at them - as long as they do it as a couple.  But the betrayals, lies, and drama* bore me every time.

 

*Which is why I instantly knew I didn't want Oliver and Laurel together.  And I do kind of think if they went that route, I would quit.  But I just can't enjoy Oliver and Felicity together anymore.  And the thought of them reuniting only to go through this again next season makes me want the show to be over already.

Edited February 5, 2016 by nksarmi

[AyChihuahua]

There's a list of things I'm not thrilled about (and right now this new LoA storyline is at the top of the list), but I'm still, so far, enjoying it more than season three. *shrug* 

Out of curiosity, do you have any thoughts re why they're rehashing the LOA crap? I mean, anything beyond Guggie is a moron and thinks it's superkewl? I really don't get it. Nobody liked this last year. Does he think we only hated it because Nable was such a total fail, so if it's redone with a better actor as RAG it'll be great?

 

As an aside, and not at all specific to you, I love that so many people say "Well, still better than season 3." The damning with SERIOUSLY faint praise cracks me up. My newest foster dog's watery poo is better than season 3. (He's SO CUTE, tiny little apple-head Chihuahua!!! His poo, however, is NOT CUTE.)

[dtissagirl]

I just find it a bit... extreme, to want a show to implode so one can finally quit it. The choice to quit is actually always there. And if the show implodes, it also implodes for the people who are right now enjoying it, not just for the potential quitter.

[AyChihuahua]

I just find it a bit... extreme, to want a show to implode so one can finally quit it. The choice to quit is actually always there. And if the show implodes, it also implodes for the people who are right now enjoying it, not just for the potential quitter.

I think people are just venting. The show is frustrating right now.

[dtissagirl]

I get that, but also -- I legit enjoyed the last two episodes a whole lot, so wishing L/O to rain on my parade is kinda unnerving just the same.

Edited February 5, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Starfish35]

Out of curiosity, do you have any thoughts re why they're rehashing the LOA crap? I mean, anything beyond Guggie is a moron and thinks it's superkewl? I really don't get it. Nobody liked this last year. Does he think we only hated it because Nable was such a total fail, so if it's redone with a better actor as RAG it'll be great?

I have never been good at figuring out their rationale. I don't know why they thought replaying this is a great idea, except that they know Nyssa is a fan favorite, and they wanted to tie up that loose end. Why they wanted to do that now, in this way? Your guess is as good as mine. I did want to see Nyssa get her revenge on Malcolm, badly. But not like this, not when I'm pretty sure it's going to end up backfiring on her and Malcolm walking away unscathed at the end of it.

As an aside, and not at all specific to you, I love that so many people say "Well, still better than season 3." The damning with SERIOUSLY faint praise cracks me up. My newest foster dog's watery poo is better than season 3. (He's SO CUTE, tiny little apple-head Chihuahua!!! His poo, however, is NOT CUTE.)

Lol yes saying something is better than season three is setting the bar rather low. ;)

[AyChihuahua]

I get that, but also -- I legit enjoyed the last two episodes a whole lot, so wishing L/O to rain on my parade is kinda unnerving just the same.

Yeah, L/O is about as fun as bedbugs.

 

It doesn't bother me because it's the one thing I don't worry about this show ever doing.

Edited February 5, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I get that, but also -- I legit enjoyed the last two episodes a whole lot, so wishing L/O to rain on my parade is kinda unnerving just the same.

Sorry, didn't mean to rain on your parade :) Or invite bed bugs.... ew

 

I really wanted to like the last two episodes, I really did but it felt hollow because of what I know is coming down the pike for no good narrative reason. I know they are good episodes, but I also feel like they are bribes from the writers to keep us calm before they wreck everything for plot & plot. Its also because of episodes like that those that I can't just quit or ragehate watch the show. Because the show has so much potential that it is just squandering...

 

I don't quit on things that have potential until they push me over my limit. My limit would probably be L/O pairing, even though it would probably deliver the ratings that would make the writers realize something is amiss. I truly fear that they do not believe anything was really wrong with s3 because the ratings were so good, which is why we had LoA back, Thea on death's door, another round of who's turn is it to fake kill MM & steal back the one ring to rule them all. So I apologize for wanting to implode the show. I just want it to live up to its potential. Because it is bursting at the seams with it, if they only realized it and learned how to harness it.

[Guest]

Wow. This really is the bitterness thread today.

 

*Panic moonwalks back out*

[dtissagirl]

I truly fear that they do not believe anything was really wrong with s3 because the ratings were so good, which is why we had LoA back, Thea on death's door, another round of who's turn is it to fake kill MM & steal back the one ring to rule them all.

 

I can say with a great amount of certainty that they REALLY don't think there was anything wrong with any of those things. They course-corrected other stuff -- the show isn't as depressing this season, they're skipping love triangles entirely, they made the villain vibrant and amusing instead of morose, they even toned down crazy eyes Palmer for LoT. But everything else -- the ratings back them up, and the pro-critics weren't raging against the LoA storyline with that much gusto. And the EPs know what it looks like when pro-critics are coming at them, because it happened with Laurel in S1/S2 [and now it happened again with the BM lie of doom, but that'll only have the chance to be fully course-corrected next season].

 

So, I dunno, instead of wanting the show to implode, maybe try disengaging from slowly? That has helped me quit a bunch of shows I thought I would never be able to. And stopping reading spoilers helps A LOT, because then you're not at all prepared for when something is SO DUMB YOU HAVE TO QUIT, so you quit it.

Edited February 5, 2016 by dtissagirl

[nksarmi]

I get that, but also -- I legit enjoyed the last two episodes a whole lot, so wishing L/O to rain on my parade is kinda unnerving just the same.

 

 

I just find it a bit... extreme, to want a show to implode so one can finally quit it. The choice to quit is actually always there. And if the show implodes, it also implodes for the people who are right now enjoying it, not just for the potential quitter.

 

I actually don't really want the show to implode.  It was just after reading post after post about how the writers HAVE to have their couples angst and how Oliver and Felicity will probably get back together this season just to rinse and repeat - on some level - every season from now on that I was just like "oh hell no."  I like Felicity too much for this.  I'd rather she and Oliver break up and somehow end up in the friend zone if this show is going to go another three or four seasons than a constant up and down angsty roller coaster. 

 

Actually, I can honestly say that I won't make it if that's the plan.  I will get through season four and I will probably make it through season five if that's all the show goes.  But if it goes any longer and there is an up and down olicity ride - I will leave it some point and only come back for the finale.  I just know myself.

 

So oddly enough - part of me really thinks I could handle it all better if they just broke up, were cold to each other for awhile, and then became friends, and maybe even reunited at the very end or Felicity was happy with someone else and Oliver ended up alone.  I know that's not what most people want - I'm just saying that my viewing loyalty could probably survive that better than a breakup / makeup / breakup / makeup / etc... ride.  But maybe they won't do that to us?

[Chaser]

I think I'm the only person that doesn't think its going to rinse, lather, repeat.

 

I think they will break up this season, get back together either by the end of the season or the start of the next and I think they will get married in the next crossover. No more break ups at that point.

 

I'm being oddly optimistic but I honestly think we only get the one break up. Whatever drama comes out after that point will be external.

 

Arrow is not going to be a 10 year Smallville marathon. I can't really see it going more than six and I think they are interested in doing a married superhero.

[wonderwall]

I think I'm the only person that doesn't think its going to rinse, lather, repeat.

 

I'm actually right there with you on this one. The show is testing the couple and whether it can stand whatever Guggenheim can throw at them (no matter how nonsensical), and if/when they do get back together after all of these hurdles, and when they do get married, I don't think we'll be seeing any breakups, just them being a married couple dealing with their issues. And unless the show makes Oliver/Felicity do something completely unforgivable, which I don't think they will because then the audience will lose respect for both the most important/popular characters on the show, then I don't see them going anywhere.

[kismet]

It's too soon for me to call what MG & team has in store for us. I agree I think they want to try out a married superhero couple. I think I just fear what MG & co think that entails. I have seen some married couples on TV and it doesn't stop the crazy nonsensical drama. I would love stable happy O/F fighting external challenges together, I just hope the writers want that too.

 

But I will try to believe in the hope that @wonderwall & @chaser have discussed in being optimistic that it won't be wash, rinse, repeat. I'm just being hesitant because I am feeling the burn of some of their recent story choices.

[BkWurm1]

I think I'm the only person that doesn't think its going to rinse, lather, repeat.

 

I think they will break up this season, get back together either by the end of the season or the start of the next and I think they will get married in the next crossover. No more break ups at that point.

 

I'm being oddly optimistic but I honestly think we only get the one break up. Whatever drama comes out after that point will be external.

 

Arrow is not going to be a 10 year Smallville marathon. I can't really see it going more than six and I think they are interested in doing a married superhero.

I'm right there with you. Every couple on TV always breaks up once before being together.  Some couple then break up for good but many then stay together after that (baring weird behind the scenes show stuff).  I do think the show runners listened to the majority of the complaints about season three and strove to fix them and I've really liked even loved most of season four.  It's not perfect and I don't think it ever will be and yeah, I'm not happy about pending BMD but it's just plot, plot, plotty stuff to move the players around on the board so they can get to their next move and hit their preplanned end point. 

 

I just don't think it's enough to blow the whole show up over.  The annoyances that are coming are not great but I think the fact that they've been hanging over our heads for so long is making them feel like a bigger issue to the show than they will be in the long run.  Poor Quentin has been dead man walking since they gave him a heart condition.  The only twist will be if he manages not to die of a heart attack. 

 

The BMD will be the big stall but yeah, will either be resolved by seasons end or fixed next season.  In the meantime, the relationship I've seen on screen this year minus their blip in a time line that no longer exists, has been one of the best I ever seen on television.  And I've watched A LOT of television.  The positive for me vastly outweighs the negative.

 

I have my days where I spiral too but honestly, overall this show has been pretty good to me and what I want from it.  The twists getting there aren't the easiest but can anyone remember watching toward the end of season one and having that moment where you really wished that something would happen with Olicity without really believing they'd ever deliver? They've delivered on a scale I never dared dream.  I honestly feel that while Arrow is not just Olicity, Arrow isn't Arrow without it. 

 

And I think ALL the show runners and those involved in the show know it and will guard it, not just for the creative reasons in protecting something they've built, but because that is where their bread is buttered.  And yes, BMD is their version of protecting the ship.  If it was Oliver and Laurel he'd get drugged and sleep with another woman.  I am counting my blessings. 

Edited February 6, 2016 by BkWurm1

[looptab]

 

[kismet]

Dear Forum,

 

Sorry I spiraled yesterday... TBH, it really is the wheelchair story just for a story that pushed me over the edge. I'm mad at the writers for that. The BMD is stupid and wasted potential, but par for the course with them. I should not take it out on Olicity or this board. I love the characters; I just really hate the writers right now. They have genuinely decent ideas (most of the time) that they execute in the most ridiculous & sometimes questionable fashion.  I will try to be less fatalistic moving forward. It’s going to be challenging. But hopefully worth it in the end. :)

[DeadZeus]

I feel REALLY stupid, but i literally JUST realised that the episodes don't start with "My name is Oliver Queen" anymore.. It literally JUST hit me... I guess that means Oliver officialy isn't the main focus anymore? But they all are?

[nksarmi]

I feel REALLY stupid, but i literally JUST realised that the episodes don't start with "My name is Oliver Queen" anymore.. It literally JUST hit me... I guess that means Oliver officialy isn't the main focus anymore? But they all are?

 

I hadn't caught that either.  I hope the next thing to go is the flashbacks. Or at least, that they really, really, really spread the flashbacks around. 

[lemotomato]

I feel REALLY stupid, but i literally JUST realised that the episodes don't start with "My name is Oliver Queen" anymore.. It literally JUST hit me... I guess that means Oliver officialy isn't the main focus anymore? But they all are?

Some episodes start with the "My name is Oliver Queen" intro and some skip it. The used the intro in 401-404 and 409. They probably decide based on how much time they need to spend on the "Previously, on Arrow" section.

[wonderwall]

Also it's season 4. We all know his name already -_-

[Chasity]

The fight sequences from the past 2 episodes have given me hope that Oliver will be the main focus in the action scenes again instead of having 90% of it focus on Thea and Laurel, while Oliver just stands around and watches.

[bijoux]

The fight sequences from the past 2 episodes have given me hope that Oliver will be the main focus in the action scenes again instead of having 90% of it focus on Thea and Laurel, while Oliver just stands around and watches.

Shhhh. You'll jinx it.

[Trini]

So Season 3 started with a shocking death, and Season 4 started with a future glimpse of a shocking(?) death; I assume that Season 5 will start with a death somehow, with the way this grave mystery has everyone speculating. But they can't keep killing off characters, so maybe the imminent death of Starling City... again?

[BkWurm1]

Season five could start with a shocking death in the future (or what looks like one) and then the season can show how they get to that point.  Yep, they'd be stealing a "twist" from How to get Away with Murder. 

 

Or maybe someone will go "evil". 

[bijoux]

Here's what I'm hoping for. We've been told that the first three seasons were an origin trilogy. I'd like a clear indication of what the next few seasons are about as a whole.

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so I've been thinking about this upcoming Baby Mama Drama stuff and I hate it and will most likely continue to.

 

There is something that I fear, though, and something I don't want to happen after Felicity finds out and inevitably breaks things off with Oliver because of it. As much as this is his fault and he should face the consequences, I don't want him to revert back to mopey, angsty,  'Everything is my fault and I'm better off alone because I just hurt the people I love' Oliver Queen. I don't like self-loathing Oliver at all. It makes me feel bad for him in a way, and I know that I shouldn't feel bad for him because he did lie to his fiancee about his son. I don't want him to retreat or pull away from anyone because I do think that when he does that, worse stuff happens. I don't want his entire team to pull away from him, although I do want his team to side with Felicity.

 

The only good thing that I could see coming out of this is if Oliver doesn't fall back into old habits, and he works hard to make it up to Felicity. He does something DIFFERENT for a change and he grovels and begs to be forgiven, but also shows that he is a changed man because of her in his life. If Oliver can not go back to his self-loathing self and fights for Felicity, then MAYBE I'll be able to suffer through this BMD shit-fest that it's already turning out to be.

[BkWurm1]

I don't want his entire team to pull away from him, although I do want his team to side with Felicity.

 

I think it's most likely that the team won't take any sides at all once the break up happens and before that it will just be surprise followed by concern and sympathy for Oliver once DD makes a move on William. 

 

I am really not looking forward to the show's dynamic once all the subtle moments between Oliver and Felicity are gone.  Plus they will write their story lines so they are apart most of the time.  This is going to suck so bad. 

[nksarmi]

wrong thread

Edited February 11, 2016 by nksarmi

[NumberCruncher]

I am really not looking forward to the show's dynamic once all the subtle moments between Oliver and Felicity are gone.  Plus they will write their story lines so they are apart most of the time.  This is going to suck so bad.

Not just the subtle O/F moments...all the subtle moments. When the show takes its time and allows the characters to breathe is when it's at its very best. Unfortunately most of those moments are O/F so we're in real trouble because TPTB's default is to automatically revert to more fight scenes and they skip over character development.

[DrSpaceman10]

I completely agree with the above posters. In my opinion, O/F's relationship is the core relationship of the show, so many of the important character moments and development (especially for Oliver) happen in scenes with the two of them. What's going to happen to the show when they take that away? What's going to happen to Oliver's character? It's not going to be pretty. 

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. My bet is the show is gonna lose all of the je ne sais quoi O/F brings to the story again, exactly like it did last season.

[kismet]

So if QL is the one that is killed for reasons... is anybody else wondering if the audience will even notice? I mean I'm a QL fan and enjoy his character, but he's been missing for so long, I'm not sure the general audience will even remember who he is or why his death is so emotional or pivotal.

 

I do wonder if the longer they keep him off the screen, the more likely he is not in the grave. Or perhaps, TPTB won't care - I don't think anyone is putting much thought into why someone needs to be in the grave besides we need to kill somebody every year for reasons.

[Starfish35]

I do wonder if the longer they keep him off the screen, the more likely he is not in the grave

I've been wondering that myself. Of course, they might just focus on him two or three episodes before they kill him off. *shrug*

The other thing, though, that has made me wonder about it being Quentin....I was initially assuming "him" was DD. Now I'm thinking it's probably MM. Not that Malcolm isn't perfectly capable of killing Quentin, but the motivation isn't there like it was set up with Darhk.

I'm still leaning toward it being Quentin, just because I won't get lucky enough for it to be Laurel, and it being Diggle is unthinkable. But it doesn't quite seem to fit as well as it did before.

[way2interested]

I've been wondering that myself. Of course, they might just focus on him two or three episodes before they kill him off. *shrug*

The other thing, though, that has made me wonder about it being Quentin....I was initially assuming "him" was DD. Now I'm thinking it's probably MM. Not that Malcolm isn't perfectly capable of killing Quentin, but the motivation isn't there like it was set up with Darhk.

I'm still leaning toward it being Quentin, just because I won't get lucky enough for it to be Laurel, and it being Diggle is unthinkable. But it doesn't quite seem to fit as well as it did before.

Yeah, the only person who would really be set up with Malcolm would be Thea at this point (or the kid, but I've always been far from the Baby Mama/Kid is in the grave theory train), which would give Oliver the final draw to kill Malcolm, since Malcolm and Thea can't very well have a "normal" relationship if she's dead. However, with Thea now having 2 near-death experiences over the span of a year, it really shouldn't be her. 

 

Then again, since the switch from Darhk to Malcolm being the SOB is now very palpable, I wonder if there's going to be a switch in the show again for the death too.

[Lady Calypso]

I'd be very disappointed if it ends up to be William or Baby Mama in the grave. I know it would at least start to fix the problem (I think the BMD has been the biggest mistake thus far....with now Malcolm staying alive as the second biggest but whatever), but it would feel like such a cop-out. I don't want to see Baby Mama or Kid ever again. I'd love for them to disappear and never return. I just don't want one, or both, to die just because the showrunners see how it's affecting the show overall. 

 

You see, at the beginning of the season, I was 100% convinced it was Quentin. They led up to it very well, actually. They had him conspiring with Darhk as a secret, he is now in on the Oliver secret and was let into the lair officially, they had him find out about Sara and reconcile with her, he's been on better terms with Laurel, and even his relationship with Oliver has been mostly fixed. The only thing they need is Darhk to be onto Quentin and his lies and there's a reason for him to actually die to save Laurel or something. But then other factors came into play. Anarky, The Calculator, now Malcolm. I'm still convinced it's likely to be Quentin than any other regular, but I'm not 100% convinced anymore. Now I think they could cop-out and kill the Kid or Baby Mama. The showrunners sometimes change their minds when their surprises don't go their way. I think maybe they knew they wanted it to be Quentin at the beginning with the leading up to it, but I'm wondering if (assuming it WAS their plan because I could be so off) they're starting to lean toward other choices. 

 

Also, another thing that could make it Quentin is that he's the only character that wasn't 'killed' in the crossover episode (someone said Malcolm had been in Central City but I'm not so sure?); if everyone has their own 'Final Destination' near death, Quentin wouldn't and he could be a surprise kill because of it. Now I'm kind of hoping that he has a near death experience soon just so I can possibly be relieved of his death. But I think the death is still most likely him, except there's less reason to kill him off now. 

[statsgirl]

I don't understand the 'Final Destination' idea.

 

It's what Barry said about the timeline readjusting itself?  How would that even work?  Would someone who was killed in the previous timeline die in this one?  Would someone who survived before be killed die now?  What would be the decision rule?

 

And do the writers even remember that this idea exist?

[Password]

But considering they all died, wouldn't they all have to die to set things straight? In the Final Destination movies most of them died. And if you didn't die, or had a near miss, death still comes back around to get you.

Why should only one person die?

Edited February 12, 2016 by Password

[Genki]

I wonder how much adjustment has been done to the initial season outline.

 

This is pure speculation but I wonder if they started to plan the season with DD as Felicity's father, but then realised it would be too much like Thea/MM especially if they wanted to make Malcolm the villain again.

 

If this did happened would explain why it seems like they rushed  save Palmer Tech resolution and the Papa Smoak reveal (they knew they had to have the reveal of Papa Smoak in S4, since it was promised). It seems like they were set up as big plots and now seem to be over so quickly, maybe it was just me being over excited and now feeling a bit bewildered, that that was all there was to these storylines.

 

I also wonder now if the Death will happen in 4.23, so that the Oliver/Felicity Limo scene could occur at the end of the season to set Malcolm Merlyn up as the S5 Big Bad.

 

Which I think would make so much sense in closing of the 5 Chapters of Arrow which align with Oliver 5 years away.