Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Starfish35]

I don't see anything wrong with it, it's a nickname he has for her. If they can find a good way to incorporate it into the show, cool, if they can't, cool.

It's a nickname Ollie has for Dinah, but there's been no indication that it's ever been a nickname that Oliver has for Laurel. And it's very much associated with the GA/BC pairing - why throw it in there if they're not actually together? I would personally find it very strange for him to be calling Laurel "pretty bird" while he's with Felicity. To me it would imply a level of affection that I don't think exists between them right now.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

Nicknames are for couples or people that are really close friends (and sometimes siblings). Oliver and Laurel are neither of those things to each other. 

[kismet]

I feel like unless OQ is going to start nicknaming everyone there is no organic way for him to actually call LL pretty bird. A sarcastic reference maybe, but not a legit nickname.

The only.person he has ever referred to a nickname by is his sister. I think that is because of his special bond with her. OQ just doesn't seem like a nickname guy post island. Speedy is a term of endearment from a relationship that sustained him through bad times. I just don't see him giving new nicknames to any of his crew regardless of their relationship level. I don't even see FS or Dig getting a pet or nick name.

Edited September 14, 2015 by kismet

[Starfish35]

You know, I have to admit, even the Speedy thing has always felt a little forced to me. It's not that I can't imagine Oliver giving his little sister a nickname, but "Speedy" always felt a little too much Because Comics (with apologies to Sakura12). Even from day one it just felt a little awkward. *shrug* I don't know - maybe that's just me.

Or maybe awkward's not the right word. Over on the TWoP forum they used to refer to falling anvils. I guess it just felt a little too self-conscious, if that makes any sense.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. I cringe every time Oliver calls Thea "Speedy". It takes me right out of the story. And I cringed EVEN HARDER that time he called Roy "Speedy" because he explained why, and I had to hide my face in shame.

[Starfish35]

Oh yeah that was SOOOO awkward.

[Sakura12]

You know, I have to admit, even the Speedy thing has always felt a little forced to me. It's not that I can't imagine Oliver giving his little sister a nickname, but "Speedy" always felt a little too much Because Comics (with apologies to Sakura12). Even from day one it just felt a little awkward. *shrug* I don't know - maybe that's just me.

 

So we're blaming Laurel for Thea being nicknamed "Speedy"? I'm okay with that. Lol. 

 

I get it, the "Speedy" thing did feel forced to me and I cringed every time he called her that. Did we ever get the context of why he calls her that? My younger sister had a nickname growing up that only her friends used and I never did. I'm not a nicknaming person and Oliver is not Sawyer from Lost, we haven't seen him use any for anyone else. 

[dtissagirl]

Also, it really doesn't help that I totally associate "Speedy" with Thea's drug habit.

Edited September 14, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Primal Slayer]

I'm kind of surprised that Thea doesn't seem to just go and use Red Arrow as her official name instead of just allowing the team to call her Speedy now that she is suited up.

[Starfish35]

Did we ever get the context of why he calls her that?

I think they did explain it a little in the first episode or so, but I'd have to go back and watch. It seems like it was something about the way she used to race around so fast when she was little.

I'm kind of surprised that Thea doesn't seem to just go and use Red Arrow as her official name instead of just allowing the team to call her Speedy now that she is suited up.

They might not be allowed to - I don't know. Someone with more comics knowledge help me out here, but I think Red Arrow is just Roy Harper. Not that I'm defending that logic, but I'm just guessing that maybe Red Arrow is restricted for some reason.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

Also, it really doesn't help that I totally associate "Speedy" with Thea's drug habit.

Didn't he allude to that? Like maybe he should call her Speedy for a different reason. I feel it was when he explained the nickname.

 

Can someone remind me why Roy was called Speedy to start? At one point wasn't Roy called Speedy, Red Arrow and Arsenal?

[Starfish35]

Do you mean in the comics or in the show (re: Roy Harper)?

[Chaser]

In the show.

[Morrigan2575]

I think they did explain it a little in the first episode or so, but I'd have to go back and watch. It seems like it was something about the way she used to race around so fast when she was little.

They might not be allowed to - I don't know. Someone with more comics knowledge help me out here, but I think Red Arrow is just Roy Harper. Not that I'm defending that logic, but I'm just guessing that maybe Red Arrow is restricted for some reason.

Red Arrow and Arsenal are Roy Harper's aliases. Speedy was his before he moved on from Green Arrow. When Oliver picked up Mia Dearden she became the new Speedy. Not sure if she picked it or if Oliver gave it to her. It doesn't really make much sense, there was a specific reason that Roy was called Speedy but it's comics so I don't think the internal reason matters that much...same as 3 Robin's and 3 Batgirl's

[Starfish35]

In the show.

I only remember one time Roy was ever called Speedy within the show, and that was when Oliver called him that to snap him out of his Mirakuru rage (which made NO sense and is the scene that dtissagirl was talking about). He was always called Arsenal by the team. I think the news (and maybe Lance?) called him the Red Arrow once or twice.

There was a weird instance where Lyla said something to Oliver about "Speedy" and Oliver thought she was talking about Roy, which again made no sense, because Oliver never called him that except that once that I recall. I think mostly he was Arsenal, but the others were just in-show nods to his other aliases in the comics.

[Morrigan2575]

Wasn't there something in 217 where they called him Speedy and Roy didn't like the nickname? I remember them talking about it in interviews but it could have been cut.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

I don't remember - sorry. :( It seems like after Oliver called him that once, he told him never to call him that again, but there could have been another time.

[Morrigan2575]

Could that have been in 17?

[Starfish35]

Maybe? :)

Sorry - I'm being really unhelpful. I really don't remember, and I'm not where I can look it up right now. :(

[apinknightmare]

Wasn't there something in 217 where they called him Speedy and Roy didn't like the nickname? I remember them talking about it in interviews but it could have been cut.

 

I thought he called him Speedy at some point this season. And IIRC, Oliver called him Speedy in the comics once, too.

[Morrigan2575]

That I don't know. I only watched 9 episodes this season.

[AyChihuahua]

It was in the earthquake machine episode. Roy was whaling on that guy in a Mirakuru rage, Oliver called him Speedy to snap him out of it (it worked, for whatever reason) and later on, maybe that same episode Roy tells him not to call him that again.

Actually, it might not be Tremors. I'll see if I can find it.

Birds of Prey, 2.17.

O: "The only thing that snapped you out of it was when I brought up Thea."

R: "That's why you called me Speedy. I thought you were trying to give me a nickname. But for the record, don't call me Speedy."

Edited September 14, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

Oliver has referred to Roy as both Speedy & Arsenal. It started as Speedy as a way to help him control his mirakuru, but then it just stuck. I don't really remember Arsenal coming into use until s3 when they gave more emphasis to his costume. It might have even had to do with Cisco. I don't think Roy liked being called Speedy.

Also, it really doesn't help that I totally associate "Speedy" with Thea's drug habit.

 

 

Didn't he allude to that? Like maybe he should call her Speedy for a different reason. I feel it was when he explained the nickname.

He did allude to Thea being Speedy after his saw her with some pills in her bedroom. It was not where the nickname originated, but he did make a sarcastic comment about the nickname maybe maturing into something more than just her ability to run fast as a child.

[EmilyBettFan]

The whole pretty bird would only work for Sara. Considering canaries are pretty birds and she was The Canary. When have we seen a black canary be a pretty bird?

[Primal Slayer]

Well it would be a type of Canary so it would be pretty.

[wingster55]

Hope: For Oliver and Iris to have a real interaction

[statsgirl]

I was thinking about the cross-over episodes this season and wondering who will be in them.  Now that Arrow has both Black Canary and Speedy, will Laurel and Thea be crossing over on to the Flash too?  Will Iris visit Arrow?  And what about the LoT cast? Will they be on both shows, or only the one with their origins?

 

It seems to have the potential to be a huge mess unless they delegate people to A and B teams.

[wingster55]

That's an interesting question...we may see Laurel and Thea cross over in the big crossover event...but I don't think we're gonna see Iris do so in that event. However both shows sprinkled smaller crossovers during the season. I don't see why Iris couldn't do so. I suspect she'll learn of the Arrow side of the secret in the crossover. 

[BkWurm1]

I think we are going to have to see how the show uses Iris, Thea and Laurel before we can guess how present to expect them to be in the crossovers.  I mean I fully expect Thea and Laurel to be in the big crossover for some huge fight scene but I have no idea how Iris is fitting into the Flash.  I think I heard spec that she might be based out of Star Labs in which case then when they go to Star City they would certainly see her too. 

[wingster55]

I don't know if Iris will be based out of Star Labs so much as shell frequently visit a la Joe in s1. When Oliver and co cross over they inevitably have to go to Star Labs...and thus Oliver and Iris

[kismet]

Along with the new seasons, I've also been marathoning & binging shows. Currently, I'm on Masters of Sex, and it got me thinking I really wishing ARROW would change their opening sequence. MoS has a really cheeky and fun opening title sequences, as do some other shows. West Wing had a grand & sweeping opening that really set the mood. Homeland has some mind-bending provocative images. Parks & Recs had funny memory moments of the characters. While other shows, like Lost or Revenge took the simplistic route with a reveal of title/quick music note(s). ARROW just has the repetitive monologue episode after episode. No drama, no cheeky fun, not even a psychedelic mind bend or highlight of funny character moments.

 

I'm usually against changing an opening mid-course of a series. I hated it when they did it for Felicity & Alias. Actually Alias was a good example of when to change and when not to change a theme. They dropped the reading of the Bristows dossiers once the show officially took down

SD6

; which was a good move. Fans who watched the show already knew the story. And new fans didn't need a cliff notes, they had the "previously on" to give them a background. But then they dropped the cool images for just Sydney in wigs, which was not as good as the original, a bad move.

 

I felt the OQ voiceover and explaining of his mission made sense in s1-2, but I think its time for the show to lose the voiceover. We don't really need to set the stage about who everyone is at the beginning of every episode 4 years into the show. It gets repetitive and I don't feel like it draws in new fans. Part of me wishes they would just have a simple reveal of the title with the theme. Similar to the trailers they released for s4. A more cinematic reveal of the title. People often say there is a lot of Hamlet in ARROW, but just like Simba grew up and finished his own Hamlet story, OQ has grown up too & it seems like the Hamlet portion of his story is over. I would miss the "something else" monologue, but to quote Mufasa "it is time".

[BkWurm1]

Aghhhh!  I'm only like four hours spoiler free and it's driving me crazy to see the Spoiler's Only and Spoiler discussion thread light up.  I want to know and  I don't want to know but more than that bit of conflict, I know that while I'll  wish I didn't know afterwards,  right now I don't know if I care!  

 

Six days?  Seriously?  Six days?  Avoid Twitter, Tumblr, news outlets, the LoT and FLash forums because secrets are always being spilled. 

 

This.  Is.  Hard.  I. Am.  Weak. 

Edited October 2, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Password]

I'm with you. I try so hard to stay off tumblr and this site that I even block the URL.

It's haaaaaaard.

[Morrigan2575]

Arrow is the show I'm most spoiled for. I don't trust the writers so I have to check everything. Same with Sleepy Hollow last season. I also check The Walking Dead spoilers to prepare if TIIC ever decide to kill Carol (I was really worried about her last season).

Usually if I really like/enjoy a show I'm spoiler free. I really don't know much about Flash, LoT, The Originals, Supernatural or The Vampire Diaries.

[kismet]

No offense to ARROW or the ARROW writers... but they rarely ever surprise me with their storylines. They surprise me with their pacing. They surprise me with their boldness in choosing to embrace so many stories that other series would table for a few seasons. They surprise me with how comfortable they are to do something like kill off OQ. Of course, then they disappoint me when they backtrack the next episode (FTR, glad OQ was both "killed" and lived to tell the tale). They surprise me with how easily they just forget about main characters like LL, or seem to mistreat her character season after season - but yet don't send her character away. They surprise me that they think their plot pretzeling is surprising. Their gotchas & OMGs are not on the level of some other shows, despite how epicly game-changing MG wants it to be.

 

So honestly, I never find reading the spoilers for ARROW all that enlightening or spoilery. Honestly, most of the ideas I read here on the speculation/spoiler thread are sometimes more interesting than what the writers come up with. That being said, I do enjoy the show immensely, but its not that groundbreaking in its basic story plots (which is a lot of the nuts & bolts of the spoilers). The experience of the show is generally amazing, regardless of how much I know before hand. It's just not on my list of shows that I can't tolerate being spoiled.

 

But yeah, it must be hard times for you guys out there these days who don't like spoilers. I will admit that I have a hard time with actual episodes being spoiled after they aired. I can't always watch the show live & it is brutal to have to stay away from social media. Spoilers are puzzle pieces waiting to be put together for me. But episode clips/gifs/hashtags/reviews those are deadly - so tempting that they really test my self-control.

[BkWurm1]

I plan on going back to the spoiler section as soon as the season opener is done.   I'm just afraid since people have actually seen the episode now that if I don't stay away, there won't be any cute moments that I haven't already seen since I already was such a spoiler whore. 

 

 

I'm with you. I try so hard to stay off tumblr and this site that I even block the URL.

It's haaaaaaard.

 

I was considering turning off my wi fi.  Yeah, hasn't happened yet.   

[Kymmi]

I plan on going back to the spoiler section as soon as the season opener is done.   I'm just afraid since people have actually seen the episode now that if I don't stay away, there won't be any cute moments that I haven't already seen since I already was such a spoiler whore. 

 

 

I'm so torn on it all.  I was spoiled to the gills last year, especially at this time, and while Sara's death was still shocking I felt like I had already seen most of the moments and felt let down.  Then the rest of the season let me down and I felt like I rage read the Spoiler thread and was permanently writing posts in my head for the Bitter thread.  I've seen the first 2 promos and stopped watching the others and reading other spoilers, hoping this will lead to a better outcome.

 

I have my Guggenheim voodoo doll at the ready, however.  

[Primal Slayer]

I really want them to introduce Roulette since we have all these heroines now and adapt this episode of Justice League Unlimited. Obviously sans Wonder Woman.

[BkWurm1]

,I remember that one. :)

All the girls infiltrating a fighting ring would be fun.

[kismet]

So after talking about OTH & earlier in the month about Fall Out Boy. Part of me kinda hopes that they keep the Verdant set and perhaps have TQ still own it (maybe not directly run it) but I was thinking it might be nice for the CW to have live music guests every so often on ARROW now that we are going for a happier tone. I don't want it to happen a lot, but a few times.

 

I really like being able to hear music talent on TV shows. The WB & now the CW always had a good relationship with the music industry. A lot of their shows would feature bands or musicians performing for the cast in some venue. Or better yet they can perhaps just repurpose the set and put the music acts on Flash. Afterall, in script the Flash cast is actually able to socialize and hang out outside of the lab.

[tv echo]

This is all pure speculation - the only spoilery thing is the name of S4's Big Bad,

Damien Darhk

, but does anyone not know about him at this point?  Anyway, stop here if you don't want to read further...

 

It's no secret that I'm an Olicity shipper - but playing devil's advocate, I've come up with a scenario where Oliver and Laurel could get together romantically again, despite their toxic back story. [Their lack of chemistry is a different matter, unless you bring in an AU Laurel Lance through the wormhole created by the Flash.]

 

The toxic back story belonged to the pre-island couple of Oliver and Laurel, where he lied to and cheated on her repeatedly, including with her sister Sara, and she turned a blind eye to his infidelities while visions of marriage and being Mrs. Oliver Queen danced in her head. Those people were young and stupid, but they no longer exist.

 

The first three years after Oliver returned to Starling City were a transition period for them.  Oliver lied to Laurel, and he slept with multiple women.  Laurel was hostile and angry to Oliver, and she slept with Tommy.  Oliver slept with both Laurel and Sara again.  However, Oliver was emotionally and mentally messed up during this time.  He had become an assassin.  He was suffering PTSD and was detached from his emotions.  He viewed everyone [with one notable exception] as either a threat (that he might have to eliminate) or a target (that he might have to protect), but even with the targets, he didn't trust them or allow himself to feel any real emotion.  Laurel was still dealing with unresolved issues of anger and bitterness toward both Oliver and Sara.  They never had any confrontation or closure on their toxic back story until after Sara also returned from the dead.  Oliver and Laurel completely separated as a couple or possible couple during this time. 

 

Both Oliver and Laurel went through their respective crucibles and came out the other side as completely different people.  Now they've both been transformed and essentially 'reborn' as new people.  These new people, who have adopted the personas of Green Arrow and Black Canary, don't really know each other.  Laurel is no longer the uptight, by-the-book, justice-seeking but sanctimonious, good girl.  She's now a more tolerant, still justice-seeking but sometimes law-breaking, kickass fighter.  Oliver is no longer a selfish, entitled playboy, nor is he a dark, tortured, messed up assassin.  He is now a mature, self-less, thoughtful, one-woman man with a lighter, more humorous soul.  They have to get to know each other anew.

 

Now they'll be fighting as part of Team Arrow on an almost daily basis. Just like soldiers in the trenches during wartime, they'll learn to trust, respect and care for each other.  Trust requires letting go of the toxic past and starting with clean slates.  They'll save each other's lives multiple times, and they'll develop that close bond that only soldiers who fight side by side in life-or-death situations understand.  At the same time, in their public lives, Oliver will enter politics and fight for social causes. That work will dovetail with Laurel's day job, since she has quit her ADA position and returned to working at CNRI.  They end up working together on a lot of the same social causes and become good friends.

 

Then Felicity either disappears or is 'killed', and is believed by everyone to be dead.  Oliver is devastated and mourns her.  Diggle is also devastated and turns to his family (Lyla and baby Sara) for comfort.  Thea turns to her new boyfriend for comfort.  Oliver and Laurel are left to comfort each other.  They grow closer in the months that follow and finally sleep together.  Team Arrow brings in

Curtis Holt

because they need IT expertise, and he becomes a member of their crime-fighting team.

 

As it turns out, Felicity was kidnapped by

Damien Darhk

[you can invent any number of reasons why, from DD"s toying with TA and just enjoying causing Oliver pain, to something having to do with Felicity's father].  DD puts the whammy on Felicity but it doesn't work [see P.S. below for reason], although she pretends to be whammied.  While trapped at the main HIVE facility, she meets a HIVE soldier who's also pretending to be whammied [see P.S. below for reason]. But he can't remember his past and is a dark, tortured soul who's guilt-ridden over what he's had to do for HIVE.  During the several months of her captivity, she works with this guy to figure out a way to escape. He protects her from other HIVE members. (During this time, DD is busy in Star City.) The HIVE soldier falls in love with Felicity, and while she still loves Oliver, she can't help but develop some feelings for the HIVE guy.  [Think combination of Bane-Talia and Nyssa-Sara.]  They finally manage to escape but he is wounded, so she brings him back with her to Star City.

 

Oliver and Felicity are overjoyed to reunite, but they both feel some conflict because while separated, they each developed feelings for other people as well. In addition, he feels guilty that he couldn't protect her and believed her dead, while she feels resentful that he gave up on her. There's also the fact that Oliver slept with Laurel while Felicity was presumed dead. Felicity is already feeling distanced from the rest of Team Arrow (and suffering some PTSD of her own).  She is also feeling displaced by the new IT guy on the team.  Oliver and Felicity try living together again, but it doesn't work out. In a bittersweet scene, they acknowledge that they are each other's great love, but too much has happened to them while apart for things to return to the way they used to be.  Oliver goes to Laurel, while Felicity goes to the ex-HIVE soldier. 

 

Felicity and the ex-HIVE soldier decide to leave Star City and join ARGUS. He is accepted on a trial basis while Amanda Waller tests his loyalty.  They challenge Waller frequently on missions while they try to turn ARGUS away from some of its past bad practices (like being willing to bomb an entire city of people).  At the same time, they fight enemies from his HIVE past.  Slowly, she recovers her ebullience, while the ex-HIVE guy learns to be a hero.  [Hey, repetition is key in the FLArrow universe!]

 

P.S.  In a Supernatural crossover, the HIVE guy is Dean (played by Jensen Ackles) who was captured by DD in an alternate universe and brought here years ago.  He couldn't be whammied by DD because Castiel made him immune to magic.  Felicity couldn't be whammied by DD becase, as it turns out, her father is a *fallen* angel.  Her angel genes make her immune to magic.  It's also no coincidence that she's superhero catnip.  It's part of her genetic makeup to be a "light-bringer" or "joy-bringer".  In fact, her father is the one who named her Felicity ("felicity" means intense happiness and good fortune).

 

P.P.S.  Because I just can't leave it there, eventually Oliver and Laurel break up because he just can't forget Felicity, and Felicity and Dean break up because she just can't forget Oliver.  Felicity returns to Star City and reunites with Oliver.  Laurel moves away to live closer to Sara, and they become a crime-fighting team known as the Canary Sisters.  Dean gets Amanda Waller fired and takes over as head of ARGUS.

Edited October 6, 2015 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

Interesting to say the least...lol. but if that happened, i see people just harping on Laurel for trying to take Felicitys place and swf her.

[tarotx]

At this point I just can't see Oliver turning to Laurel and being able to be the lighter quick witted Oliver from the comics. If Felicity is kidnapped he'll spend the rest of his life looking for her. If she's dead, he's devastated and dark.

[Guest]

@tv echo. Bless your ingenuity but I'd rather eat my own foot than watch that happen. Haha. And it still works on the premise that Felicity has to be removed from the show (kind of) for O/L to work. It just doesn't, IMO. He'd be destroyed.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

I was actually with your AU until the SPN crossover. Then it broke my cognitive dissonance HARD, I'm sorry.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't believe the show will go back to O/L.  I think they'd bring a new love interest first, because the anti-chemistry is unfixable.  However, if they do go back to O/L I sincerely wouldn't care, because I would have quit watching.  I'm already hanging on by a thread.

[Sakura12]

I'd believe they'd go back to O/S before ever even thinking of going with O/L. 

[BkWurm1]

At this point I just can't see Oliver turning to Laurel and being able to be the lighter quick witted Oliver from the comics. If Felicity is kidnapped he'll spend the rest of his life looking for her. If she's dead, he's devastated and dark.

The way they would get around this would be for Oliver to decide that it would dishonor Felicity and what she'd brought to his life if he let himself fall back and become the person he'd been before he'd met her.  That's how (after a bumpy period) he'd keep his new lighter outlook on life, in honor of her. 

 

Of course, I will have stopped watching before that point. 

 

Pisses me off just imagining it. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

Of course, I will have stopped watching before that point. 

 

Pisses me off just imagining it. 

 

Same. I get ragey. I don't think I've ever disliked a TV couple as much as O/L and that's saying something.

 

But yeah, if it ever started to happen I'd just stop watching. It's weird. I could probably watch the show without Olicity. I could not watch it with O/L together. No way. 

[lemotomato]

O/L is my deal breaker too, especially because Felicity would have to die, become evil, disappear, or develop amnesia (be destroyed, essentially) for it to happen.

I believe the EPs (and SA) when they respond with "never say never" regarding ships, but if O/L does come back, I can see it a) near the end of the show and b) being a mandate from DC rather than a choice by the showrunners. Maybe if DC decides to put GA and BC back together in the comics, or if they decide to do a GA movie. In any case, I will have stopped watching the show by then, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Edited October 6, 2015 by lemotomato