Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Starfish35]

I think the crossover episode might have a lot to do with setting up LoT. LoT is being set up on both shows, so the crossover will probably be about bringing both sides of that together. Then episode nine might be more about setting up for Arrow 4B, so probably some big cliffhanger to do with HIVE. That's my guess. Otherwise, agree with your timeline.

About your question earlier, about watching a Super Laurel and Sara show...I've been thinking about that, and honestly I think I'd have to say no. As much as I love Sara, and as much as I do expect Laurel and Quentin to be heavily involved in Sara's resurrection arc, I just seriously don't think I could deal with that much Laurel on a regular basis, even for Sara. That's why I don't want her moving over to LoT.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Starfish35

[tv echo]

Regarding a possible BoP spinoff with KC as the BC (this is all pure speculation)...

 

MG had said a couple of  times that they're hoping to bring back Helena as Huntress next season.  If they can't get her for a BoP spinoff, then maybe Hawkgirl is their backup plan (instead of Huntress)?

 

If they need an Oracle, what about

that new character they're introducing on The Flash as Barry's new love interest - Wendy?  She's obviously a temporary character, she's a cop/scientist and a "Felicity Smoak"-like character.

Edited June 22, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Regarding MG's recent tumblr statement that they already know "what the final moments [of the Arrow series] will be"...

 

MG had previously said that they haven't decided yet on an endgame for Oliver because they don't know how long the series will run.  How is his newest statement consistent with his past statement?  It made me wonder if the EPs' plan has always been to have Oliver end up alone.

 

Coincidentally, I found that some fan had posted this same concern on Laura Hurley's tumblr page.  Here is her response:
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/122069916652/i-love-youuuuu-i-was-thinking-what-if-oliver-ends

Edited June 22, 2015 by tv echo

[lexicon]

Maybe the network is okay with that kind of penetration? 

 

Wonderwall FTW!

[quarks]

 

MG had previously said that they haven't decided yet on an endgame for Oliver because they don't know how long the series will run.  How is his newest statement consistent with his past statement?  It made me wonder if the EPs' plan has always been to have Oliver end up alone.

 

 

My guess - and this is a pure guess - is that those "final moments" refer to some sort of end shot focused entirely on Oliver - something like Green Arrow running around shooting things, or heading to the Justice League, or Oliver sitting in the Starling City mayor's office, with his bow resting in the corner.  Or Oliver back on the island, lighting a bonfire. Or all a final shot of all of the heroes on the show running out to face the Big Bad Guy - the way Angel ended.

 

In any of those scenarios, Oliver could be with anyone, or he could be alone, so I find that statement internally consistent. I don't think that anyone on Arrow is counting on EBR being there for the entire run of the show. Hoping, maybe. Counting on, probably not.

[Happy Harpy]

Here's a question, if a Super Laurel and a Super Sara show was made, would you watch it?  I LOVE Sara.  I can't say I wouldn't watch it if they were getting equal billing.  That said, I will NOT be happy if the first half of season 4 turns into the SL and SS show.  Nope. Arrow needs to be told from Oliver's perspective.

I couldn't agree more about your last sentence. I've always said that Sara didn't work for me as a lead on Arrow because indeed it's Oliver's (and OTA's) show, but I've always been in favor of her having her own spinoff.  

I do think she belongs on Arrow, as the "sixth ranger", because her roots are Oliver's roots, and it makes her presence on the show organic...except if she can have her own, since  I think that Sara has all that it takes for this. Well-rounded character? Check. Rich back-story? Check. "Blanks" in her life,  so lots of possibilities for flash-backs and all? Check. A LI, possibly of the star-crossed lovers kind? Nyssa, check. Links of her own with comics' lore? LoA, check. A disciple? Sin, check. A parent that could be a regular? Dinah (reboot, she's back to her S1 persona), check. (Wo)manpain? To kill or not to kill, check. Went to hell and back? LP, check. Actress who managed to win a good part of the audience over with her portrayal of the character? Check.

 

That's why I wouldn't watch a show where Sara would have to share the lead with the Fake Canary, a superfluous, nonsensical character imo. And that's why I won't watch LoT in spite of her presence, because I don't want Sara to play second fiddle to an inferior character -just a deduction based on who is front and center on the poster. Well, maybe I'll just have to wait for a few episodes in, when TPTB realize that she's way more able to carry a show than 50 Shades of Bland. (Yes, even I would watch LoT then, in spite of the superpower fest).

Now, you give me a modern, brazen version of BoP with Sara, Sin -as Oracle, her ending-up in a wheel chair being BoP's Queen Gambit wreck equivalent- Helena, Nyssa as Sara's LI and Lyla as the link with Arrow? I'd sign immediately, and if one or two episodes of Arrow S4 were used to set it up, it wouldn't bother me...because all those characters are imo organic to Arrow, not introduced as artificial plants to promote another vehicule, so imo it could be done while keeping Oliver and co as the focus and make me feel I'm watching "Arrow".

Unlike, imo, what would happen if S4-A was used as a set-up for LoT, since except for Sara no character was created to serve Arrow, its characters and/or its lore. But I'm afraid that TPTB won't pay attention to the warnings they received this season and go for it anyway.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[dtissagirl]

MG had previously said that they haven't decided yet on an endgame for Oliver because they don't know how long the series will run.  How is his newest statement consistent with his past statement?  It made me wonder if the EPs' plan has always been to have Oliver end up alone.

But when he said the thing about not knowing the endgame, wasn't he replying to a question about the romantic endgame?

I tend to agree with @quarks here. Knowing what the last moments of the show will be is different than knowing who will Oliver end up with in a romantic sense. For all we know the romantic endgame is decided before the actual end. Or he ends up alone. Or he ends up dead.

[kismet]

Regarding MG's recent tumblr statement that they already know "what the final moments [of the Arrow series] will be"...

MG had previously said that they haven't decided yet on an endgame for Oliver because they don't know how long the series will run. How is his newest statement consistent with his past statement? It made me wonder if the EPs' plan has always been to have Oliver end up alone.

Coincidentally, I found that some fan had posted this same concern on Laura Hurley's tumblr page. Here is her response:

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/122069916652/i-love-youuuuu-i-was-thinking-what-if-oliver-ends

Doubtful they have any specific endgame for couples in mind. They are probably very committed to one pairing, but will keep options open. Life & tv are just so fragile that anything can happen even if they have a plan in motion.

I bet its going to be like the last scene in Lost with the eye which was planned from the conception of the series. It'll probably be a call back shot to the pilot. My soft bet is probably him shooting the fire bow to light the rescue fire.

[apinknightmare]

Or he ends up dead.

 

YOU STOP YOUR FILTHY FINGERS FROM TYPING RIGHT NOW.

 

I can handle almost anything but that. He needs to live out his eighty-however many years as per Evil Eobard, okay? 

[BkWurm1]

In any of those scenarios, Oliver could be with anyone, or he could be alone, so I find that statement internally consistent. I don't think that anyone on Arrow is counting on EBR being there for the entire run of the show. Hoping, maybe. Counting on, probably not.

 

I really go back and forth.  One instinct says the real decision will come down to who is on the show at the end but really, even if an actress had moved on, they probably could get her back for a series finale to anoint a happy ending. 

 

If the CW becomes overcrowded with DC ventures, that might prompt them to cull older series of that nature to allow a new one to breath but otherwise, really, it's going to be all about if SA wants to stick around.  As long as the ratings are kind of good by CW standards (and Arrow seems the kind of show that would get those good enough ratings) and they can negotiate a contract that keeps their lead in place, the show will go on. 

 

Really, anyone else is expendable from a narrative standpoint though I'm not ready to say the same thing when it comes to viewership.  I know for me to keep watching, I have to have Felicity.  And not just in the show, but valued and treated well by Oliver (yes, my Smallville is showing)  From a time standpoint, we know SA is contracted through the 6th season.  If his film career takes off and it might, then he might give us a firm deadline to work with (though often the promise of more flexible work hours, a producer's credit (which I think he could earn now) and opportunities to direct might just induce him to stick around cause you know the money is never going to be there) 

 

Still, playing with a six year time line and assuming that we get solid couple-hood between Oliver and Felicity in season 4 (and it really feels like a natural choice)  I could see them just rolling right on together to the end, probably one hiccup thrown in so they could have another moment maybe in season five but otherwise just a steady progression.  But if the series keeps going on and on and on, then it seems almost inevitable that they would try out another coupledom even if they in the end don't stick with it. 

 

But would I stick around to watch them go through the other coupledom?  I don't know. 

[dtissagirl]

ITA, @BkWurm1

I actually think this next year is gonna be key to Stephen in figuring out what he wants for his career. If Ninja Turtles give Stephen an opening to a legit movie career, there's no way he stays on Arrow further than his 6 year contract. Maybe he even gets released an year earlier and the showrunners stick to their 5-year-plan.

[dtissagirl]

I said the next year is gonna be crucial, but I didn't realize I was so spot on. I just checked: TMNT2 opens June 16, 2016. So exactly a year from now, Arrow will be just starting production of S5 [i'm assuming a renewal is obvious], while Stephen will have had a week of being an action hero on a Summer blockbuster. By then he'll know if the movie is a hit and if the industry at large feels like banking him in other movies.

[BkWurm1]

If TMNT is a hit in 2016, I don't see Arrow letting him out of his contract early.  They'd want to bank on his expanded name recognition.  So I'd say season six is a go....unless Berlanti and Co decide they have something better than Arrow to put on the air and quickly make room but I don't get that feel.  Arrow remains different from all the new stuff planned. 

[foreverevolving]

Am I the only one who think the idea of TMNT being a hit laughable? I don't know.. just I can't wrap my head around the movie being any good, sure it may make some money but, I highly doubt it will be what sets Stephen career up (it may make it a tad easier to have a summer blockbuster.. if the movie isn't a laughing stock). I said it a few pages ago (or maybe someplace else, I can't remember anymore), for Stephen to make it and raise to B status (let alone A) he needs to make movies that have nothing to do with comic books and/or being a hero, or to be exact: Dude needs to branch out, he needs to play characters that are the opposite of Oliver Queen so that the audience and casting directors can see he has range, and will be willing to consider him for leading roles. because this era of comic books shows and movies will die down at some point (in fact I think it already is) for the general public. He needs to try and chase after parts with well respected movie makers (doesn't have to be the most famous ones, but those who have a strong reputation in the industry as the kind who make high quality movies).

Edited June 22, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Starfish35]

I don't know. Look at Chris Platt Pratt.

Edited to correct misspelling. *facepalm*

Edited June 23, 2015 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

I think it depends on what kind of career he wants. For all I know what he wants is to be a movie action hero. And he picked TMNT2 over whatever character driven movie that was with Susan Sarandon, so right now? Action movie hero was his priority.

And Summer box office hits can make careers, regardless of the quality of the movie. Especially for a handsome white male actor with charisma. Stephen legit is in the "most likely to make it" category in the Hollywood totem. No way to predict it, just like there's no way to predict TMNT2's box office now [it's too early], but the potential is there.

[apinknightmare]

TMNT will make money but will be critically panned like the first one, but that probably doesn't matter. If it spawns another sequel, then SA likely has another role, and maybe it'll open a few doors for him. SA must have jumped at getting on board a Michael Bay movie, because like dancingnancy wrote, it seems like he wants to get in on the action side of things. His career could go the way of Chris Pratt at some point, but he's going to have to get in on something that's got wider appeal than something like TMNT, IMO. 

[BkWurm1]

I don't know. Look at Chris Platt.

Gardians of the Galaxy offered Pratt as an actor a lot more range than I assume Casey Jones will do for SA but it will probably get him more recognition and chances are how he did on set (ability with stunts and who he is to work with) will be spread about long before TMNT2 is called a hit or a flop. 

 

Pratt has been in the business for a long time.  He stood out to me back in Everwood.  He should have been the annoying jock older brother, just a one note characters but he never was so I am very happy that ten years later he's making it big. 

 

SA is still a relative newcomer.  He's done pretty well for himself so far IMO.  I don't think he gets the credit though for his acting ability so yeah, he'd be smart to pick up something more character driven if he wants more exposure.  I can't decide if him making it in the movies would be a good or bad thing in the long run for Arrow. 

[dtissagirl]

Didn't he mention in one of the Upfront interviews that he actively pursued the Casey Jones role? Like, it wasn't offered to him at first, but that he had his agent/management put him up for the role? That looks to me like his intentions are on the action hero side.

To go back to the topic, this is just my informed guessing, but I think if Arrow goes on longer than 5-6 seasons, then of course Stephen is gonna have to be on board for that, but I have a harder time believing anyone else in the current cast won't be tempted to leave. Especially EBR and Willa, who are the youngest [something that is important to the industry]. The one obvious pro for EBR staying on Arrow forever is that it shoots in her backyard. But everything else she might wanna do career-wise is probably in LA.

Edited June 23, 2015 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

If the spin-offs keep coming and SA has a chance at a legit movie career with a schedule that isn't so tight, then I have to think he'd probably choose that once his contract is up. If the movie bombs for whatever reason or doesn't really do much for his career, then I imagine he'll probably stick with the steady paycheck series work provides. Whether or not that's with Arrow, IDK. 

 

He seems really excited to be working on a big-budget movie. If he can get one or two more during his hiatus, in a role that's more than just a blip, maybe he'll try his hand at that for awhile. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Delphi]

I think shooting times for movies versus television, and movies and television will also come into play at some point for Stephen as well. He's a big family guy and as of right now doesn't have tons of time to be with Cassandra and his daughter. I think if he can find movie rules that offer him more time off, or if Arrow could, that might tempt him in a certain direction.

[dtissagirl]

From a purely financial standpoint, Arrow hits the syndication magical number by episode 419. That'll give them 88 episodes. I totally believe the show will have a fifth season, but TPTB could decide to end it after S4, because that's when the studio will start profitting FOR REAL on Arrow. If all they want is to recoup money spent in production, but not spend one extra cent in it, that's okay for them after S4.

So up to the end of S4, everyone in the creative part of Arrow -- writers, actors, directors, composers, ie the people who get syndication residuals -- is in the red. After S4, they won't be anymore. Which means Stephen might have a bit more power to negotiate with Arrow for S5. Less set time [Tom Welling got this when he got bumped to EP on Smallville. His screentime dropped because he asked for it], a couple of episodes off, etc, since the strictly profit returns part of producing the show will be over. So this time next year, Stephen will have more leverage than he has right now, going with Arrow alone. If he got a break in movies on top of it, he could get even more leverage.

[calliope1975]

Am I the only one who think the idea of TMNT being a hit laughable? I don't know.. just I can't wrap my head around the movie being any good, sure it may make some money but, I highly doubt it will be what sets Stephen career up (it may make it a tad easier to have a summer blockbuster.. if the movie isn't a laughing stock). 

 

The first TMNT (2014) made 65 mil in its first weekend and 485 mil worldwide. I foresee many sequels in the future. I actually watched it (grudgingly) a few months ago. I ended up not hating it. Faint praise, but I was really expecting to be bored and annoyed by the whole thing. I don't plan on lining up for the sequel, SA or not, but if it's out in the summer, where a ton of kids have nothing else to do, and can grab the adult nostalgia factor, I think it'll do quite well again. It seems like Casey Jones' part will be fairly substantial, and doing well at the box office won't hurt SA's clout, such as it is. 

 

As others have said, a few years ago, I would never have predicted dim Bright Abbott and doofy Andy Dwyer would be headlining two of the most lucrative movies in history. Go Chris Pratt. 

 

Figuring out an actor's career trajectory is both really interesting and often impossible. A few years ago Sam Worthington was the go-to action guy, the next big thing. Not so much anymore.

[dtissagirl]

Remember that time Esquire wondered if Sam Worthington was the greatest actor of our time?

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/a6093/sam-worthington-quotes-0909/

I didn't either, but someone I follow on Twitter mocked this article just this past week. And now it's fitting.

[BkWurm1]

Seriously though, what happened?  It don't remember him in any bombs.  I don't remember him in ANYTHING after Avatar. 

 

I suppose we are looking waaay to far ahead.  Ok, hopes and dreams for season four. 

 

Don't suck. 

[dtissagirl]

I second that don't suck, but let's see if I can come up with hopes and dreams for each character:

OLIVER: Less dumb, more happy. Less arcs that are about him saving himself and/or friends and family, and more arcs about him being a hero to Starling City and its citizens. Also, if he could get about 15% more snarky I wouldn't complain at all.

FELICITY: HAPPINESS! Good partnership with Oliver in all facets of their lives together. Less of that crap of being the vehicle for somebody else's storyline, more storylines for herself. FELICITY, TAKE THE WHEEL. Give her growth by having her deal with QC falling on her lap. Give her a Big arc about her father, but make it ultimately about her, and not the father, or Oliver. If it's a little about Diggle and HIVE, that would be all right.

DIGGLE: NEEDS MORE DIGGLE. Make the HIVE/Andy Diggle storyline span the whole season, instead of the requisite Diggle-centric eps. But ALSO give us Diggle-centric eps. More of him and Lyla being so great together. More Felicity and Diggle having each other's backs emotionally. Quickly resolve the Dig/Oliver rift because I AM NOT HERE FOR ANGST.

THEA: Less Malcolm Merlyn, more Team Arrow! Give her her own stories, and never ever EVER AGAIN write any male character on this show making decisions/manipulating/mind-raping her. Let the chick make her own decisions, she's got a cool head. If we must have Lazarus Pit after effects, again, let the story be HERS, and not how what she's going through affects the male contigent in her life.

MERLYN: UGH. Please die soon.

LAUREL: Eh. My biggest wish is for her to go away and stay there, but since I cannot have nice things: GIVE LAUREL A LOVE INTEREST. That mocks her, and irritates her, but also drives her crazy in the good way. Homework for the Arrow writers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_based_on_The_Taming_of_the_Shrew

I'm also open to her having more scenes with Nyssa because--

NYSSA: WAY MORE NYSSA. I vote we replace Merlyn with Nyssa. It even fits the narrative, look at that, so far my idea is already better than anything that happened in S3.

QUENTIN: Somebody for the love of all things holy, give the guy a girlfriend. It can even not be Donna Smoak if they can find someone just as compelling, but also, it can be Donna Smoak. They also have to keep it a secret from the kids because it would be way funnier.

LYLA: I need Lyla to become the older, wiser guru for all the other ladies in this show. Also I want more of Lyla and Oliver discussing their creepy Amanda Waller programming, and Diggle and Felicity having to deal with the people they love having been creepily programmed by The Wall.

DAMIEN DARK: WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T BE RA'S. The opposite of Ra's would be ideal. Because Ra's was boring, lame, and annoying. Don't be any of that, DD, and you're already gold.

Did I forget anyone? Oh, wait: SARA: Be alive! Be kickass! Don't get suckered into any Lance Family Drama because that makes you part of The Annoying, and I don't like it when you're in The Annoying. I also want Sara and Thea to become BFF and trade embarrassing Oliver stories with Felicity in front on him. Because yes.

Who do I send this to? I wanna speak to the writer!

Edited June 23, 2015 by dancingnancy

[catrox14]

Am I the only one who think the idea of TMNT being a hit laughable? I don't know.. just I can't wrap my head around the movie being any good, sure it may make some money but, I highly doubt it will be what sets Stephen career up (it may make it a tad easier to have a summer blockbuster.. if the movie isn't a laughing stock). I said it a few pages ago (or maybe someplace else, I can't remember anymore), for Stephen to make it and raise to B status (let alone A) he needs to make movies that have nothing to do with comic books and/or being a hero, or to be exact: Dude needs to branch out, he needs to play characters that are the opposite of Oliver Queen so that the audience and casting directors can see he has range, and will be willing to consider him for leading roles. because this era of comic books shows and movies will die down at some point (in fact I think it already is) for the general public. He needs to try and chase after parts with well respected movie makers (doesn't have to be the most famous ones, but those who have a strong reputation in the industry as the kind who make high quality movies).

 

Responding to the bolded part.  Personally, I think he HAS shown his range with Oliver Queen. He's played comedy, action, heavy drama, romance, does his own stunts, pretty much the gamut with Arrow. We've seen him play 3 different versions of Oliver and IMO all were quite different and no it wasn't just a wig change that gave that nuance.  Plus he has great work in Hung playing a totally different kind of character in that show.   I don't think he has to take on a bunch of other random movie roles to  prove his bona fides and range. MO he's already done that with Oliver Queen.

 

My hope is that he'll get to play another side of Oliver Queen when Arrow actually gets back to being about Oliver Queen in s4. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by catrox14

[BkWurm1]

Personally, I think he HAS shown his range with Oliver Queen. He's played comedy, action, heavy drama, romance, does his own stunts, pretty much the gamut with Arrow. We've seen him play 3 different versions of Oliver and IMO all were quite different and no it wasn't just a wig change that gave that nuance.  Plus he has great work in Hung playing a totally different kind of character in that show.   I don't think he has to take on a bunch of other random movie roles to  prove his bona fides and range. MO he's already done that with Oliver Queen.

 

I agree 100 % that SA has shown his range but unless he can convince future producer/directors to watch multiple seasons of his show they will never know.  Even if someone listens to the masses saying he's great on Arrow, unless someone also includes specific clips and scenes, what's going to happen is they will pop in the Pilot episode and not understand the character and complain about his wooden acting.  

 

Even If he has a reel of his best moments from the show that he could hand off it seems to me that in the movie biz you already have to be a known quantity before you'd even get the chance to prove you can do it.  

 

It's kind of like SA going out for the part of Casey Jones.  To me, the part seems like such a step down for him in terms of acting but he had to bust his chops proving he was right for the part.  I still feel he's too good for the part but I doubt anyone involved in that movie know it. 

 

let's see if I can come up with hopes and dreams for each character:

 

Dancingnancy, loved your suggestions. but particularly this:

OLIVER: Less dumb, more happy. Less arcs that are about him saving himself and/or friends and family, and more arcs about him being a hero to Starling City and its citizens. Also, if he could get about 15% more snarky I wouldn't complain at all.

 

and this:

 

QUENTIN: Somebody for the love of all things holy, give the guy a girlfriend. It can even not be Donna Smoak if they can find someone just as compelling, but also, it can be Donna Smoak. They also have to keep it a secret from the kids because it would be way funnier.

 

The Oliver stuff I need 'cause smart writing is good for the whole show and the Quentin and Donna sneaking around and hiding it from the kids, oh, I want this soo bad I can taste it.  They wouldn't even need her around all the time.  Just think of all the one sided conversations we could overhear.  It's gold, it's so gold. 

[wingster55]

I don't foresee Quentin and Donna...she's fun but he needs someone who is more than that, who has layers. 

 

 

 

LAUREL: Eh. My biggest wish is for her to go away and stay there, but since I cannot have nice things: GIVE LAUREL A LOVE INTEREST. That mocks her, and irritates her, but also drives her crazy in the good way. Homework for the Arrow writers: https://en.m.wikiped...ng_of_the_Shrew
I'm also open to her having more scenes with Nyssa because--

Taming of the Shrew? Because...Laurel needs to be tamed by a man? Ok. 

[Velocity23]

How dare you? Donna has layers!

[dtissagirl]

Taming of the Shrew? Because...Laurel needs to be tamed by a man? Ok.

Sure, Laurel as a meek submissive woman subdued by ~masculinity, that's exactly what I want for her. You've nailed it!

Snarkity snarky snark rules apply.

Edited June 23, 2015 by dancingnancy

[WaitandHope]

Oh goodness.  Here we go again.  But dancingnancy, I really loved your suggestions on all fronts, and I do feel that the writers have been hopefully watching their own show and see why basically all of your suggestions are good ones for the characters that they have been creating.   My hope is they finally start putting each character back together - rather than just constantly tearing each character into pieces.  The deconstruction of Oliver Queen has lasted long enough (8 freakin' years)...let's begin the construction of the Green Arrow, please.  It's season 4, after all.  Sometimes I hate the Joss Whedon line, don't give them what they want, give them what they need.  Even Joss understood, sometimes you had to at least give them a little bit of what they WANTED - or they stopped watching your show!

 

As for the Taming of the Shrew reference, I actually love that idea for Laurel.  Mostly I love Taming of the Shrew in every iteration, and not because I love the name "shrew" - actually that is pretty awful.    Laurel would actually be a great "Kate/Kathryn" type, who is BTW my favorite Shakepearean female mostly because she's a bitchy, mouthy badass.  When Laurel owns her own edginess, she is at her best.  I never think the Laurel storyline fits into the overall story arc, but at least if it's going to be a total outlier, then they can make it an enjoyable one.   There was actually a hint of this in the Ray/Laurel interview scene I thought in the police station.  I know people don't like Ray, but there was a hint of something I thought.  And Laurel owned that scene. 

[kismet]

The first TMNT (2014) made 65 mil in its first weekend and 485 mil worldwide. I foresee many sequels in the future. I actually watched it (grudgingly) a few months ago. I ended up not hating it. Faint praise, but I was really expecting to be bored and annoyed by the whole thing. I don't plan on lining up for the sequel, SA or not, but if it's out in the summer, where a ton of kids have nothing else to do, and can grab the adult nostalgia factor, I think it'll do quite well again. It seems like Casey Jones' part will be fairly substantial, and doing well at the box office won't hurt SA's clout, such as it is. 

 

As others have said, a few years ago, I would never have predicted dim Bright Abbott and doofy Andy Dwyer would be headlining two of the most lucrative movies in history. Go Chris Pratt. 

 

Figuring out an actor's career trajectory is both really interesting and often impossible. A few years ago Sam Worthington was the go-to action guy, the next big thing. Not so much anymore.

I see the movie making a profit, but that would have probably happened without SA. His role won't make or sink the movie, but having it on his resume may be an advantage towards securing future roles. People may dislike the movie, but his role or acting maybe well received. I doubt it will be considered a critically acclaimed movie, but that doesn't generally matter for a lot of summer blockbusters so long as it makes $$. If the movie or his role flops then he might have a problem.

 

I think he has shown his range in ARROW and some of the other projects he has done. Its about choosing the right roles for him that give him the career he wants. It matters that his movie choices either make critical buzz or financial profit. That may be big budget movies or arthouse films, really all depends on him, his goals & his team. Personally, I could see him going the Tom Cruise route.

 

But back to Arrow, I think that the show will last as long as SA is committed to starring on the show. I do see him having more leverage to determine the extent of his involvement during the s5-6 negotiations. Once he chooses to significantly lower his screentime or not renew then I see the show having trouble continuing with decent ratings. That being said, I have always thought that they might do a major overhaul of the show after s6 & have it be about OQ's son taking over the role (especially if SA leaves). I could see OQ never actually taking up the Green Arrow mantle, but rather leaving it for his son. But irregardless of the GA title or not. I could see them ditching the current cast & going younger to appeal to a new audience if SA leaves the show.

[dtissagirl]

Oh goodness.  Here we go again.  But dancingnancy, I really loved your suggestions on all fronts, and I do feel that the writers have been hopefully watching their own show and see why basically all of your suggestions are good ones for the characters that they have been creating.   My hope is they finally start putting each character back together - rather than just constantly tearing each character into pieces.  The deconstruction of Oliver Queen has lasted long enough (8 freakin' years)...let's begin the construction of the Green Arrow, please.  It's season 4, after all.  Sometimes I hate the Joss Whedon line, don't give them what they want, give them what they need.  Even Joss understood, sometimes you had to at least give them a little bit of what they WANTED - or they stopped watching your show!

 

As for the Taming of the Shrew reference, I actually love that idea for Laurel.  Mostly I love Taming of the Shrew in every iteration, and not because I love the name "shrew" - actually that is pretty awful.    Laurel would actually be a great "Kate/Kathryn" type, who is BTW my favorite Shakepearean female mostly because she's a bitchy, mouthy badass.  When Laurel owns her own edginess, she is at her best.  I never think the Laurel storyline fits into the overall story arc, but at least if it's going to be a total outlier, then they can make it an enjoyable one.   There was actually a hint of this in the Ray/Laurel interview scene I thought in the police station.  I know people don't like Ray, but there was a hint of something I thought.  And Laurel owned that scene.

Yesss, to all you've said. Especially this: "My hope is they finally start putting each character back together - rather than just constantly tearing each character into pieces. " Goodness gracious, I wish I could stamp that on Guggenheim's forehead. They're over the halfway mark for their 5 year plan, it's absolutely the time to build instead of tear down. And the great thing about building characters up, putting them back together, working towards a better/fully realized versions of themselves? That breeds character-driven stories.

The thing the Arrow showrunners seem to have missed about Joss' school of tearing characters down is that Joss also knows it is absolutely necessary to have some humor/levity waved into the tragedy, to strike a balance. Otherwise you're just making misery porn. Which describes Arrow S3 to a T, I guess.

My fave Shakespeare lady is Beatrice from Much Ado, but Katherine is Top 2, definitely. And from a feminist standpoint, Taming of the Shrew is so much about how that society's internalized sexism views Kate as a "shrew", and keeps trying to tone-police her, while she's having none of it. Arrow's writing is chock-full of internalized sexism, give Laurel a chance to also have none of it. Yes, please.

[Sakura12]

My issue with the Taming of the Shrew for Laurel is that Laurel doesn't own up to being a shrew like Kat did. She knows who she is and wants to be that way. Laurel acts like that but thinks she's some sweetheart world savior. Which also what all the other characters say about her. It can't work like that if no one sees her as the shrew. 

 

If they let Laurel own up to being an entitled brat, I would've probably liked her better. But they don't. Everyone has to act like Laurel is such an awesome caring person. They may say something for half a second about it, then she does absolutely nothing different and they start singing her praises. That's more like Bianca then Kat. 

[BkWurm1]

I don't foresee Quentin and Donna...she's fun but he needs someone who is more than that, who has layers. 

 

Taming of the Shrew? Because...Laurel needs to be tamed by a man? Ok. 

Velocity23, on 23 Jun 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

How dare you? Donna has layers!

 

Re: Taming of the Shrew.

 

I have BIG issues with how the play ends but it has some early fun and some interpretations allow for more leeway over the Shakespearian ending (allowing Kate to keep her dignity) but no, I would not want a literal Taming of the Shrew relationship because that dude by my standards was a controlling abuser BUT I do think that Laurel would do best in a relationship where her LI wasn't that worried about her sharp tongue.  Oliver goes back and forth between trying to appease or ignore her.  Laurel needs someone that reacts differently when she's mad.  And by mad I mean in a snit about some perceived slight rather than any real issue.  I want someone that can cajole her out of a bad mood, someone that can role with her moods and temper. 

 

As for Donna Smoak, her layers are the reason why I fell for her character so hard.  I love the idea of her and Quentin together because she on the outside is happy and upbeat and just drop dead gorgeous and he deserves some fun and light in his life (assuming he's back on the wagon) But Donna isn't just a good time gal.  She's tough and loyal and loves deeply.  She's a fighter, a survivor and strong enough for Lance to lean on when he needs it.   It's not their show but oh, they would be so much fun to watch!    

Edited June 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

Coincidentally, Marc Sanger (General Shreive) was in my favorite version of The Taming of The Shrew, put on by the San Francisco Reperatory Company back when he was young enough to swing on the acrobat bars that for some reason were the set of the show. It was during the feminist era and his Petruchio was playing a desperate hand to marry an heiress but was by no means sure of her, ever. In the final scene with that godawful speech about women putting their hands under their husbands' feet, you knew that Petruchio was hoping Katherine would play along so he could win the bet, and that when she did, it was not because she had been brainwashed but because she knew how much he was counting on her and did it for his sake because it was a partnership between them.

 

I think the biggest problem with Laurel is that she leap frogged right over Sara not only in fighting ability but also in being brave&strong.  My biggest hope for her is now that she's in costume, they'll draw back on pushing her to the front and learn to write for the character and actress as they did for Roy but I fear there's next to no chance of that.

 

Donna is a case of this show writing yet another layered and awesome female character and hopefully they won't throw her away as the did Shado, Moira and Sara.  (Really, I think the only major miss in female characters has been Laurel and I think much of the problem with that has been the canon the character brings to the show.)  At first she started out as seeming to be a stereotypical air-head cocktail waitress, and then we learned about her strength and determination, her willingness to work incredibly hard to raise and fight for her daughter, and her good-heartedness in not holding a  grudge against Felicity's father.  At the end of her first episode we realized that while Felicity got her computer smarts from her father, she got the intangibles, the reasons why so many people love her, from her mother.  Pairing her with dour Quentin would be comedy gold.

 

If they gave me Arrow: Las Vegas, with Quentin and Donna running a PI firm out in the dessert, assisted by Roy, I'd watch the hell out of that.

 

NYSSA: WAY MORE NYSSA. I vote we replace Merlyn with Nyssa. It even fits the narrative, look at that, so far my idea is already better than anything that happened in S3.

Yes to everything you said but especially this. I am so tired of the love that the EPs have for JB/MM.  I don't want him to be a regular next season, if he has to stay on the show let him stay in Nanda Parbat and Sara and Nyssa can visit him.

[tv echo]

Laura Hurley writes about possible fun stories for Oliver & Felicity...

 

Hey! Me again! You've said that there were all sorts of fun story possibilities of Olicity as a official couple. Any in particular you'd want to see?
Jun 29, 2015 6:01 am
http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/122755890508/hey-me-again-youve-said-that-there-were-all

[kismet]

Oh the idea of Oliver as the "trophy wife" at galas is just too much to pass up for at least one episode.

 

I too hope to avoid any actual babies or baby scare for at least one more season if not longer. I feel like babies in shows like Arrow are just logistic nightmares for characters, audience, plots and production. I want them to avoid it if possible until the later seasons (& then it depends on how many seasons they plan on having). I think the writers & the characters have enough to juggle that pregnancy should be the furthest on their list of priorities for s4. A convo or joke here & there okay, but no need to actually pursue the storyline.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm guessing engaged by the end of S4, some LOA/Nyssa marriage shenanigans causing breakup in S5 when they try to get married during the season, then married by the end of S5 or sometime in S6.  I'm guessing no baby until the end of the series, which will be end of S6 unless they continue sans Amell

[Chaser]

My hope is that Arrow goes 5 seasons. 6 Max.

 

My fear is .... Supernatural

[AyChihuahua]

Supernatural really has gone on far, far too long.  Its first five years were mostly so good, too.

 

I'd guess six, because they have SA for six.  

Edited June 30, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Starfish35]

Six seasons is a good run. Five always seems a bit too short for me for some reason. But I don't think I've ever watched a show that didn't start showing its age by its seventh or eighth season.

[quarks]

Six seasons is a good run. Five always seems a bit too short for me for some reason. But I don't think I've ever watched a show that didn't start showing its age by its seventh or eighth season.

 

Sesame Street!

 

(possibly not what you meant.)

[Starfish35]

Ha! :)

[Starfish35]

Speculating on what Laurel's story might be in season four since we learned pretty much nothing from Comic-Con re: LL/BC....

I'm wondering if she is going to be the one to have Sara resurrected. I could see that happening actually. I could see her going to Malcolm and saying, you took Tommy from me, you took Sara from me....you owe me this. I think that might actually be rather in character for Laurel.

[tangerine95]

Speculating on what Laurel's story might be in season four since we learned pretty much nothing from Comic-Con re: LL/BC....

I'm wondering if she is going to be the one to have Sara resurrected. I could see that happening actually. I could see her going to Malcolm and saying, you took Tommy from me, you took Sara from me....you owe me this. I think that might actually be rather in character for Laurel.

But why so late when she knew about the LP at least since she went to Nanda Parbat? Its strange she would wait so long since Sara's already been buried.They might still do it,just doesn't make much sense.

[lemotomato]

Do we even know that LL knows about the Lazarus Pits? I guess we can assume Team Arrow told her the truth of what happened after they came back from Nanda Parbat, but show canon-wise, all we have are deleted scenes of Oliver lying to her about where they're taking Thea for treatment.

[Starfish35]

I don't know. Maybe things get worse with her dad, and she finally decides to try to resurrect Sara to make it up to him?

I'm just speculating here.

Someone is going to resurrect Sara, and Laurel and/or Nyssa seem like the most likely suspects to me.

Do we even know that LL knows about the Lazarus Pits?

No, I'm not sure we do. Maybe Nyssa comes to her and tells her about them?

Edited July 12, 2015 by Starfish35

[kismet]

Perhaps they resurrect her over the break?

IDK, I hope they do it before they realize the bad side effects - because I totally envision the reason OQ comes back to SC is because of Thea & bad LP side effects after his IGN interview.

Then again LL has been shown to be very self absorbed for 3 years that I would see it in character for her bring back SL anyway.

Then again part of me hopes that SL has been resurrected for months & being held somewhere, so maybe LL can just be the one that rescues her? Perhaps make up for some of the less supportive sisterly behavior. Maybe show that she loves her sister & won't give up on her so easily this time.