S16.E08: Beto O'Rourke, Billy Bush, Andrew Ross Sorkin, Pete Dominick, and Nayyera Haq

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Bill's guests - Congressman Beto O'Rourke, Billy Bush, Pete Dominick, Nayyera Haq & Andrew Ross Sorkin

[Paws]

I think I’m done with him. Once again, a dude heavy panel minimizing what the lone woman is saying. It’s enraging. Nayyera Haq is a fucking hero for standing up to them and I appreciate that Pete Dominick supported her. Sorkin's hands were flying all around her personal space, he brushed off what she said, and The Two Bill(y)s just gave her withering looks. Fuckers. 

The whole time Bill was going on and on about how Billy Bush didn’t do anything wrong I was simmering with rage. I was so happy when she spoke up about how this was confirmation of what women know men do in private spaces. And then they tried to shut her down. 

[DB in CMH]

When did Pete Dominik become so fucking strident? I used to listen to his show years ago but wow, he has changed. Comparing Bush to rapists and murderers? Bitch please. 

 

I appreciated Haq's views - very well reasoned and expressed, but she didn't look thrilled to be there. Her very audible "I'm not laughing at that." it wasn't a strong segment, granted, but take the stick out of your ass. You know what the show is before you come in it so don't act shocked when you're there. 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

That was an extremely uncomfortable panel/overtime segment.

[Caseysgirl]

This whole show was uncomfortable. I didn't  know any of these people,except Billy Bush, so I don't know where any of them stand on anything. I think if Bill was interested in rehabilitating Billy Bush, he should have made him the opening interview. I felt anxious and depressed after I watched the show and I'm not sure why.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Caseysgirl
Misspelling

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, DB in CMH said:

When did Pete Dominik become so fucking strident? I used to listen to his show years ago but wow, he has changed. Comparing Bush to rapists and murderers? Bitch please. 

I don't think he was exactly doing that. He was just talking about the rehabilitation thing in general. When the tape came out nobody thought Bush was the villain. I think everybody got that even if he was, secretly, a big feminist who was bothered by that kind of talk, sucking up to the celebrity was his job. Haq had already addressed the real problem there, iirc,--as a man of course Billy Bush would understand the rules of sexist conversation. I loved her line about how it was braver to risk social awkwardness by calling that stuff out than to go to a rally where everyone agrees with you already. It's not some unique personal flaw of Billy Bush's--no doubt he's laughed along with plenty of other terrible things celebrities have said. PD did kind of suggest a moral equivalence by introducing the rehabilitation idea by pointing to Billy Bush but it was pretty obvious. That basically was what Bush was doing there, hoping to get his life back.

But I can't say I'm surprised that Bill would see Billy Bush as the victim he wants to help out because he totally thinks this kind of joking is no big deal.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, DB in CMH said:

Her very audible "I'm not laughing at that." it wasn't a strong segment, granted, but take the stick out of your ass.

To be fair that was probably the worse mid show bit I've ever seen. I'm typically on the side of Bill hazing his audience, but the jokes were just terrible. I wasn't laughing either. It just wasn't funny. I also think she was getting pissed off because she could barely get a word in. 

46 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think everybody got that even if he was, secretly, a big feminist who was bothered by that kind of talk, sucking up to the celebrity was his job.

I can kind of see that. I buy him saying, "I probably would have just changed the conversation." Why not just do that then? Though I don't think it's that difficult to be like, "uh, you don't *really* just grab at women right? You're making a joke." What I think the problem is, after the conversation on the bus, Billy (who shouldn't be rehabilitated simply because grown men shouldn't be called Billy) comes out of the bus and basically pimps Trump to the woman who was there meeting them. So yeah, dude, maybe you're a little too spineless to call it out because you were worried about what to say or whatever, but after that, it's on you. You can go away and not come back. You went to *rehab*? For what, being an asshole? I don't think it worked. 

If Bill thinks there is any shred of comparison between Bush and Griffin, he's delusional. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by ganesh

[iMonrey]

I wanted a whole hour of Beto O'Roarke. I didn't find the panel particularly useful. I can't get past how much Andrew Ross Sorkin looks like Pee Wee Herman. Stick a bow tie on him and he's a dead ringer.

I actually agree that it's absurd Billy Bush should get fired for basically doing his job while Trump is elected President of the United States after actually saying the foul thing that cost Bush his job. On the other hand I've never really liked him and I can't muster any sympathy for him.

Thought Bill totally nailed New Rules - something we'v been harping on for years. Democrats letting Republicans control the narrative. Democrats run away from Nancy Pelosi, run away from Obama, run away from Obabacare - it's ridiculous. And I think he's onto something (deliberately or not) about people wanting to vote to "get back to normal." I think that's the real driving force behind these legislative races being flipped blue. It's not so much that people are responding to particular issues, it's more that people are tired of being the laughing stock of the country or of the world. 

(I also kind of like the idea of erecting a Ninja Warrrior style wall!)

[ganesh]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Democrats letting Republicans control the narrative.

We haven't said that enough. And it's not the 'democrats need to fight dirty like the gop'. Just call out the bs and stick to it. If something is working, say it's working and take the credit for it. 

[ganesh]

Also, we need to retire the "I have daughters, sister, wife, whatever" qualifier. How about just telling bags to knock it off because it's the right thing to do? 

Why was Bill such an asshole tonight? That guy calling out Bush was correct. You let it go; that's on you. 

Also, I can only assume Bill has never been in a locker room because even in the 80s and 90s when I was in locker rooms everyday because I played a million sports, even dumb teenaged boys didn't say that. I did like how the guy was like, "when I was in the locker room they all said how no one would ever fuck me." 

Bill really needs to get some context on the issue because all his responses are binary. "Oh you never said anything ever in the locker room?" "Why do people have to just go away?"

No one is saying people have to go away, but this has been going on for a while and people have been *getting away* with it, and now people are fed up and stepping up. There should be real consequences, and while whomever should have the opportunity for "rehabilitation" you still should be genuinely sorry, not just sorry you got caught. And I wasn't seeing that from Bush. Maybe he shouldn't have gotten fired, but now much you want to bet that wasn't the only conversation like that he's had? And, again, I buy his context in that he's supposed to suck up to the talent, but I can't get past when they got out of the bus. You can be snippy about it all you want when the other guy is tearing into you, but you know what? If you didn't do it in the first place, then you wouldn't. So there is that. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by ganesh

[sistermagpie]

36 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I can kind of see that. I buy him saying, "I probably would have just changed the conversation." Why not just do that then? Though I don't think it's that difficult to be like, "uh, you don't *really* just grab at women right? You're making a joke." What I think the problem is, after the conversation on the bus, Billy (who shouldn't be rehabilitated simply because grown men shouldn't be called Billy) comes out of the bus and basically pimps Trump to the woman who was there meeting them. So yeah, dude, maybe you're a little too spineless to call it out because you were worried about what to say or whatever, but after that, it's on you. You can go away and not come back. You went to *rehab*? For what, being an asshole? I don't think it worked. 

Yeah, exactly. He wasn't bothered by it. He'd probably had hundreds of conversations just like that with hundreds of other men in the business. The only difference here was that it was on tape and got played when the guy was running for president. He probably didn't even remember the conversation.

I'm also so sick of this silly rehab narrative--Weinstein's at some retreat too. So many asshole treatment centers!

19 minutes ago, ganesh said:

We haven't said that enough. And it's not the 'democrats need to fight dirty like the gop'. Just call out the bs and stick to it. If something is working, say it's working and take the credit for it. 

They could seriously take so many lessons from the Parkland kids. It's not like they're rhetorical geniuses. They just know what they believe and know what's true and keep saying it. They don't freak out every time the republicans say something terrible and start desperately trying to prove what they said wasn't true. David Hogg hasn't switched his focus from gun control to trying to prove he's really a high school student. Why on earth do you start talking about the right's boogeyman, Nancy Pelosi?

[ganesh]

18 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

He'd probably had hundreds of conversations just like that with hundreds of other men in the business.

I just said the same thing. I bet he didn't remember the conversation. I also don't necessarily think he should have been fired. But you have to walk back from that real quick. He's saying he's a different person when the tape was released. Well, you look like a smarmy asshole, so I don't know if you're so different what you were like then. 

Bill needs to do his homework better. There was a big scandal in the forest service that PBS broke leading to some people resigning, and I don't think that's a big liberal profession.

Edited March 17, 2018 by ganesh

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I just said the same thing. I bet he didn't remember the conversation. I also don't necessarily think he should have been fired. But you have to walk back from that real quick. He's saying he's a different person when the tape was released. Well, you look like a smarmy asshole, so I don't know if you're so different what you were like then. 

Yeah, no way do I believe he was a different person when that tape was released. Now, sure, he knows he has to suck up to people besides Trump but if that conversation had happen the same week it was released I'm sure he'd handle it the same way, laughing along.

[Victor the Crab]

44 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Thought Bill totally nailed New Rules - something we'v been harping on for years. Democrats letting Republicans control the narrative. Democrats run away from Nancy Pelosi, run away from Obama, run away from Obabacare - it's ridiculous. And I think he's onto something (deliberately or not) about people wanting to vote to "get back to normal." I think that's the real driving force behind these legislative races being flipped blue. It's not so much that people are responding to particular issues, it's more that people are tired of being the laughing stock of the country or of the world. 

A couple of problems I have with Bill's New Rules sermon. 1) Democratic candidates need to appeal to these red districts if they're to have any chance of winning them. The district Conor Lamb won Tuesday has been so GOP dominated that Democrats never even bothered fielding candidates on a couple of occasions. It not what you want, but rather what you have to deal with. Then get them to come around later on. As was sung by the Rolling Stones; You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you get what you need.

And 2), Bill is giving those on the far left, that he has chastised on more than one occasion, ammunition to make their case that "both sides" are dirty and corrupt and that only third party choices, like Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein, are what's needed to save America. Thus splitting the left further and allowing the likes of Drumpf and other Republicans to win elections. You'd think Bill would think this through first, but then thinking has never been his strong suit.

Anyone ever seen Last Week Tonight with John Oliver's And Now... fillers about Billy Bush, which shows him to be a sexist douche around attractive women, and him playing Chester to Drumpf's Spike? Well, fuck that guy! I don't feel the least bit sorry for his downfall. I'd imagine the only reason Bill was trying to "rehabilitate" him was he thought him to be every bit the pig he is.

[ganesh]

I think democrats need to be more realpolitick than anything. Showing the example of Clinton saying the right thing and then backing away from it isn't the answer. And yes, that means maybe in a red district you have to take more conservative positions. Lamb is actually a good candidate; young, military service, etc. You can run on that. You don't have to be pro-coal, but you can be pro-jobs. 

[Caseysgirl]

To be honest, I don’t blame Billy Bush for seeming like a sycophant with Trump. We have years and years of clips, interviews and pictures of people sucking up to Trump even though he’s always been an asshole ( I’m looking at you Hillary, Oprah, Howard  et al).It kind of goes with the territory. He was just unfortunate enough to be caught on tape when he didn’t know it.

[ganesh]

That's fair only to a point though. Getting out of the bus, after what was just said, is totally on Bush. I'm not buying any of the "different man now" just because he went to rehab. He's just sorry he got caught. 

[attica]

Beto did a very nice job. Plus, he has very nice posture, which always pleases me. No slouchy manspreading.

Sorkin isn't very often right about stuff, so I've found. But he gets taken seriously anyway. And here he was confidently insisting that "people vote with their wallets." My dude, if the election of 2016 taught us anything, it's they so very much do NOT. They vote with their tribe. They vote with their biases. They vote with their fears.

Look, I don't care if Billy Bush is "rehabilitated" or not. I think he is not entitled to his job, and I think any number of people. i.e. women, could do it better and ought to get the chance. Employed people get replaced all the time (hi, Ann Curry!); his position is nothing special. And if NBC's audience is telling the suits that his on-air presence is odious, then, they're smart to show him the door. I sure don't miss him and his smarmy-assedness. Boy, bye.

[Cyranetta]

Quote

They could seriously take so many lessons from the Parkland kids. It's not like they're rhetorical geniuses. They just know what they believe and know what's true and keep saying it. They don't freak out every time the republicans say something terrible and start desperately trying to prove what they said wasn't true.

I recently read an article that pointed out that the reason the Parkland kids are so effective is that they get a damn good education. Their curriculum includes debating and journalism, both of which prepares them well to be effective communicators. I did like Bill's "Rules" point about sticking to a position (which debate class certainly would emphasize), and I got a kick out of the 'I blend into  the couch, so vote for me..." (or words to the effect).

[Sheenieb]

Quote

Why do people have to just go away?"

 

When he said that, I was like, oh, like how you and some of your guests said that Hilary should've gone away after she lost the election? I see.

The irony of Bill getting salty when the audience groans at his jokes is lost on him. He calls them 'sensitive' and 'snowflake' but he doesn't realize that he's acting snowflake-y himself. Besides, I don't interpret audience groaning as if the joke isn't funny, more along the lines of 'this might be going too far, but I'll give it an uncomfortable chuckle.'

And WTF was he talking about when he mentioned he didn't hear any me too stories about non-entertainment industries. He clearly missed the expose the New York Times featured about women working at the Ford plant. The New Yorker had an article about women on Wall Street. I work in advertising, and I got an email about Time's Up advertising. Bill has to realize that these things happen in waves. Entertainment is just the tip of the iceberg.  

Edited March 17, 2018 by Sheenieb

[ganesh]

This time the groans were because the jokes weren't funny. It was just a bad bit. Someone in the writers' room needs to stand up to him. 

[Victor the Crab]

There have been FAR TOO MANY TIMES when Bill went mega diva over the audience not finding his so called "jokes" funny. Asshole had better fucking understand that he doesn't deserve applause every time he attempts a "joke". 

[The Mighty Peanut]

3 minutes ago, Victor the Crab said:

There have been FAR TOO MANY TIMES when Bill went mega diva over the audience not finding his so called "jokes" funny. Asshole had better fucking understand that he doesn't deserve applause every time he attempts a "joke". 

 

ITA. He wants applause for all three of his solo comedic showcases—the opening monologue, his snarky gimmick of the episode (fake tweets this time), and new rules. He wants the audience to applaud his points with the biggest cheers, but never boo his shitty jokes, and he is visibly irritated when the panel steals his thunder. 

But everyone else is a snowflake.

[ganesh]

He doesn't seem to be able to discern between a 'groaner' and when a joke isn't landing. I'm not one that maintains a joke has to be funny, per se, to land. For example, Trevor Noah, "There were so many black people missing from the state of the union address that Boko Haram was taking credit." That's not really funny, but it's a killer joke. The audience groaned, understandably, and Trevor put their groans in his jar. 

I do like when a comic is a little antagonistic with their audience; there's a huge history of that, and I certainly agree comics should be pushing the line, but if the joke isn't funny, move on. The audience has certainly groaned at jokes that were actually good but line-pushing, and Bill correctly chided them. This bit just wasn't working. For someone with decades working, Bill should know that. I'm not saying crafting jokes is easy. This bit was terrible and he knows it. The entire premise was dumb. So some guy unplugged because Trump was president? Low informed voters is the root of the entire problem. I'm having a hard time seeing how you can mine funny from people who want to be deliberately ignorant. 

[Kenz]

8 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

To be honest, I don’t blame Billy Bush for seeming like a sycophant with Trump. We have years and years of clips, interviews and pictures of people sucking up to Trump even though he’s always been an asshole ( I’m looking at you Hillary, Oprah, Howard  et al).It kind of goes with the territory. He was just unfortunate enough to be caught on tape when he didn’t know it.

I agree. And why did swarmy Howard Stern always get away with egging Trump on in interviews and he and his sidekick chuckling over Trump's blatantly sexist and outrageous claims? Howard Stern always seems to get a free pass and he has said things much worse than Billy Bush did on that bus.

[DB in CMH]

Clapping back at the audience is part of Mahers shtick. I wouldn't read too much into it. 

4 hours ago, Kenz said:

I agree. And why did swarmy Howard Stern always get away with egging Trump on in interviews and he and his sidekick chuckling over Trump's blatantly sexist and outrageous claims? Howard Stern always seems to get a free pass and he has said things much worse than Billy Bush did on that bus.

I agree. I think Bush got a raw deal. I never cared for him nor believe that it is his right to have a TV show, but his treatment did draw sympathy from me. My boss (at a university) also says inappropriate things, a lot. Not Trump level, but not certainly not kosher for a professional setting. I cringe, but there's little else I can do except hope that somebody higher than me takes him aside. According to Dominick, that makes me complicit. I have no idea if Bush harbored the same feelings as I do - probably not - but it's not as black and white as some would imply. Dominick appears to have been born with angel wings and that's lovely, but not all of us are so lucky. 

 

Clapping back at the audience is part of Mahers shtick. I wouldn't read too much into it

[Pete Martell]

10 hours ago, Kenz said:

I agree. And why did swarmy Howard Stern always get away with egging Trump on in interviews and he and his sidekick chuckling over Trump's blatantly sexist and outrageous claims? Howard Stern always seems to get a free pass and he has said things much worse than Billy Bush did on that bus.

If Howard Stern had been the one on the bus and the one who had the job at NBC News he probably would have met the same fate.

I've never really understood why we were supposed to feel sorry for Billy Bush. It sucks to lose a job, I'm not downplaying that, but he has this wonderful family he keeps mentioning, he's wealthy, and there are always opportunities out there for someone like him, as shown by him being made into a martyr on this show. 

If he hasn't bounced back from it I have to wonder how much is related to him supposedly not being all that popular at the Today Show or Access Hollywood. 

16 hours ago, Cyranetta said:

I recently read an article that pointed out that the reason the Parkland kids are so effective is that they get a damn good education. Their curriculum includes debating and journalism, both of which prepares them well to be effective communicators. I did like Bill's "Rules" point about sticking to a position (which debate class certainly would emphasize), and I got a kick out of the 'I blend into  the couch, so vote for me..." (or words to the effect).

The problem for me about the debate around the Parkland kids is that I just don't know if anything has changed, or will change. I've lost count of how many times things were supposed to change in the gun debate. I have a lot of respect for the kids for fighting for this cause when they are likely still in such shock, dealing with PTSD, knowing that they will be getting a wall of hate and threats and rage (and from what I've read about survivors and families of victims who didn't survive, these threats go on for years and years), but I am wary of how much the media and smarmy, phony hacks like Bill Maher are simply patting them on the head and then sneering after the 15 minutes are up. I really hope someone is there for those kids when this is all over.

[Pete Martell]

19 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

A couple of problems I have with Bill's New Rules sermon. 1) Democratic candidates need to appeal to these red districts if they're to have any chance of winning them. The district Conor Lamb won Tuesday has been so GOP dominated that Democrats never even bothered fielding candidates on a couple of occasions. It not what you want, but rather what you have to deal with. Then get them to come around later on. As was sung by the Rolling Stones; You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you get what you need.

And 2), Bill is giving those on the far left, that he has chastised on more than one occasion, ammunition to make their case that "both sides" are dirty and corrupt and that only third party choices, like Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein, are what's needed to save America. Thus splitting the left further and allowing the likes of Drumpf and other Republicans to win elections. You'd think Bill would think this through first, but then thinking has never been his strong suit.

Bill Maher's main thought is how to posture and preen for viewers. He's been an expert at it for decades. I doubt he cares if Democrats are elected or not, as long as he gets to sit on a high horse. It reminds me of an MSNBC reporter who was sneering about Lamb ducking her questions (on Election Day no less) about Tillerson. When you're in a very privileged position, or when you aren't being impacted beyond the strain of your Twitter fingers, you can talk about how bad-ass a Democrat needs to be. You can talk about how "anyone can win," even though they rarely do, because you don't actually care anyway. You get to look superior, which is all that matters. 

None of these voices were ever there for the Democrats when it mattered, which is why the outsized importance they are given is just another example of a lazy media narrative that gets a thrill out of filing "Democrats in disarray" stories year in and year out. Maher has gotten money and viewers on that shtick from the first days he fawned all over Ann Coulter at Politically Incorrect. He'll never give it up. And people will always act like it's somehow any more valid to reality than it ever was before. 

[scrb]

Bill has repeatedly said some on the left imposed purity tests and failed to do the grown up thing of supporting Clinton, which is why we have Trump.

If him coming down on the Bernie Bros makes them run further away from the Democratic nominee, that's on them for voting in effect for Trump and helping people of that ilk gain power.

What's he suppose to do, suppress the truth about what happened?

[The Mighty Peanut]

3 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

 

I've never really understood why we were supposed to feel sorry for Billy Bush. It sucks to lose a job, I'm not downplaying that, but he has this wonderful family he keeps mentioning, he's wealthy, and there are always opportunities out there for someone like him, as shown by him being made into a martyr on this show. 

I have a little sympathy for Billy because I believe his intent 13 years ago was not to enable a groper, but to tow the company line. He’s not like Jared the pedophile and ex-Subway spokesperson, but you would think he was the way NBC dropped him.

With that said, yeah, Billy Bush is still extraordinarily lucky. Human Resources in corporate America is no joke. At one job in my past it wa made very clear  you are still representing the company when you’re living your personal life. I have seen people get fired for posting a picture of themselves on social media pretending to grope a boob on a statue while vacationing.

They didn’t get to go to rehab, or rediscover themselves at a quaint Malibu hideaway. They had to get another damn job or become homeless. I don’t think Billy or Bill gets it. For Billy, it’s an ego thing—“aw, shucks, I’m not such a bad guy”—, and for Bill it’s about political correctness. But for most people who make a workplace blunder on a smaller scale than Billy, it’s about your entire future being destroyed.

Edited March 18, 2018 by The Mighty Peanut

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, I can only assume Bill has never been in a locker room because even in the 80s and 90s when I was in locker rooms everyday because I played a million sports, even dumb teenaged boys didn't say that. 

There are certainly many Trumps and Harvey Weinsteins who do talk that way about women and think it's perfectly normal "locker room talk." God knows I've met them in my life. They're called "pigs." But you're never going to get them to see the light of day on this. At best, they can be cowed into silence but they're always going to believe in their heart of hearts the liberal elite has forced them to be politically correct. If any guy ever stood up to them and said "Hey, that's offensive," their response would be "What are you a f_g?" You'd just get bullied. Remember? Pigs.

Quote

The irony of Bill getting salty when the audience groans at his jokes is lost on him. He calls them 'sensitive' and 'snowflake' but he doesn't realize that he's acting snowflake-y himself.

Yeah, I think it's time to retire this "snowflake" thing. It's gotten too broad and lost its impact. Now everyone who isn't an outright asshole is apparently a "snowflake." That's bullshit. The joke about Tom Petty tickets was just in poor taste. It's not because the audience is full of "snowflakes." You don't have to be overly sensitive to see a joke as being in bad taste. The man died just recently. No, I didn't know him personally Bill, that's got nothing to do with it. Too soon.

[ganesh]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There are certainly many Trumps and Harvey Weinsteins who do talk that way about women and think it's perfectly normal "locker room talk."

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Writing it off by using the term "locker room talk" is demonstrably false. Because no one talks about raping women in the locker room.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I have a little sympathy for Billy because I believe his intent 13 years ago was not to enable a groper, but to tow the company line. He’s not like Jared the pedophile and ex-Subway spokesperson, but you would think he was the way NBC dropped him.

Where Bush does have reason to be indignant, imo, is that while I get why NBC felt they needed to fire him (and don't have sympathy for him being fired over this) far from this being a fireable offense in the past it probably really was his job. Had Bush pushed back on Trump hard enough for Trump to get that he disapproved, or felt judged, he would have complained and Bush would have lost his job over that. The only reason they fired him now was because of the PR. t the time I don't believe for a second he would have been expected to laugh along with just about anything Trump said and if he made Trump mad and defended himself by saying he was joking about sexual harassment I think he would have been laughed right out of his job. So acting like getting rid of Bush is getting rid of the problem is totally exonerating themselves where they don't deserve it. No question they not only tolerated that kind of thing from Bush back then (and no doubt now), they made it clear it was part of his job.

So while I don't have much sympathy for Bush personally, he's certainly right that his firing was a really hypocritical symbolic gesture. And nobody really felt like it was a big triumph since the guy who was actually bragging about assaulting women got elected president. In fact, Trump's bragging about exactly the same thing that made sure Bush would laugh--he's the celebrity so he needs to be coddled.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Had Bush pushed back on Trump hard enough for Trump to get that he disapproved, or felt judged, he would have complained and Bush would have lost his job over that.

Would he though? Or would they just move him to another position? Because if he got fired because Trump whined about it, Bush likely would have a case of wrongful termination. Maybe going along with Trump on the bus wasn't firable, but him pimping out Trump after that is really problematic. That wasn't him "just doing his job". They didn't really address that on the show. He told Bill he probably should have changed the subject, but he was really still party to the whole thing. 

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Would he though? Or would they just move him to another position?

Oh yes, I wasn't necessarily thinking that he'd be literally fired for that. I meant more that if he was somebody celebrities didn't like he'd be replaced in that position, possibly putting him in a less desirable one, and if that happened enough he just wouldn't have the career he wanted. So more that it's generally understood that in order to succeed in the job of being a celebrity interviewer you better be somebody celebrities don't complain about. If the celebrities like you enough that they praise you, that's probably even better for your career. So while that doesn't excuse what Bush was doing, it's not like NBC probably would have been obviously supportive of him not doing that either. They'd probably replace him as Trump's point person rather than, say, support him against Trump.

[DB in CMH]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

Would he though? Or would they just move him to another position? Because if he got fired because Trump whined about it, Bush likely would have a case of wrongful termination. Maybe going along with Trump on the bus wasn't firable, but him pimping out Trump after that is really problematic. That wasn't him "just doing his job". They didn't really address that on the show. He told Bill he probably should have changed the subject, but he was really still party to the whole thing. 

When was he pimping out Trump? His job was to cover Trump and The Apprentice (Access Hollywood is owned by NBCU, and so was The Apprentice) and that's what he did. AFAIK, Billy is pretty apolitical. I have no idea of Bush's intention back then, if he enjoying playing along with Trump or he didn't, but none of us really do. I give Bush latitude because I've been in his position. If somebody were recording my life, I'm sure they could easy dredge up a tape of me seemingly going along with something even though I was biting my tongue and thinking "just get me the fuck out of here." We've all been there.

Except Pete Dominick, of course.

[ganesh]

It's nothing to do with politics. I meant actual pimping. When they got off the bus after Trump asked for the tic tac, and they were meeting whomever the woman was, Bush was like, "hey how about a big hug for the Donald!" That's on him. If he had concern about how Trump was acting, he wouldn't have done that. 

4 minutes ago, DB in CMH said:

I'm sure they could easy dredge up a tape of me seemingly going along with something even though I was biting my tongue and thinking "just get me the fuck out of here." We've all been there.

My overall point is that I don't think that applies. On the bus, maybe. Bush himself invalidated the premise because he said he could have just changed the subject. But he didn't, and then getting off the bus, he took it upon himself to goad the woman into hugging Trump. I've been consistent in saying I understand the context of being on the bus and don't think he was in a position to call Trump out explicitly. After that though, he actions belie that he was thinking "just get me the fuck out of here."

I don't think he would have been fired if the entire thing was just him going along with Trump on the bus and that was it. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Late to the party, but I was thinking that this started out to be a good show, and then it just derailed. For me.

First, I was hoping the panel would talk more in depth once Haq pointed out that Drumph was trying to run the Presidency, all other branches of government as if it was a BUSINESS and not a Government. That you can't run the government as a business. And that he was a horrible businessman before he became President. But it went nowhere.

Billy Bush was just a waste of space and I still don't know why he was there.  IF he feels he should still be on this rehab tour, he should have come on this show weeks ago, when he was going on and all over the daytime shows. I have found that those that appear on The Daily Show, Late Show with Colbert, The View also show up on this show during the same week. I remember Billy from when he had his morning radio show in DC; met him a few times. Friendly enough, but always had a sheen of smarm about him. If he felt he had to suck up, fine, but when someone says something that is clearly criminal, he should have stopped him there. But nooo. Had to laugh along, and egg him on. All he had to do was the minimum. And then to prod Arianne Zucker (Actress from Days of Our Lives) to hug Drumph, was beyond gross. So no, no sympathy from me. Because he hasn't really suffered. Oh, and now Bill is questioning why anyone should go away? Oh, like you keep harping that Hillary should go away? STFU Bill. I wish Haq had called him out on that.

And Bill should just stay away from any talk of the #MeToo movement. He just fucks it up and makes himself look worse. 

Was it in the monologue or the panel that he faux-pretended that people shouldn't wear "Kiss me, I'm Irish" shirts, because that would be assault? First, just wearing a shirt like that isn't wrong. If a person wearing said shirt like that, be it Irish, Italian, Scottish, Indian, etc., grabs the person and then forcibly kisses her/him, then we can talk.

But Haq did get Bill flustered at whatever it was he said that had a double meaning/was a double entendre when she asked him how he wanted that or something. I can't recall, but she was yanking his chain, so I don't agree that she had a stick up her ass.

Sorkin was another waste of space and didn't add anything to the conversation. Or if he did, it was so word salady, I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

I also enjoyed most of New Rules, but especially when he pulled out his "Southern" accent near the end. It reminded me of last season's New Rules when he said "We the Rebels NOW!"

But Overtime was just awful.

Edited March 20, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[Ruby Gillis]

On 3/18/2018 at 6:18 PM, ganesh said:

It's nothing to do with politics. I meant actual pimping. When they got off the bus after Trump asked for the tic tac, and they were meeting whomever the woman was, Bush was like, "hey how about a big hug for the Donald!" That's on him. If he had concern about how Trump was acting, he wouldn't have done that. 

Yeah, after you treat one of your co-workers like that, you should be fired. That's entirely on Billy Bush.