S03.E05: A Life in the Day

[qtpye]

On 2/8/2018 at 10:39 AM, TiffanyNichelle said:

Forgot to add last night that I've been lowkey shipping Eliot and Quentin for a while and seeing them live a life together was really kind of sweet despite them being stuck working on that puzzle their whole lives. I'm really happy they got to remember it. I like that everyone in the group has bonded in different ways.

I like Quentin and Elliot better than Quentin and Alice, though I love Eliot and think he can do better then Q.

On 2/8/2018 at 12:22 PM, Delphi said:

Jesus,  can't Margo get a fucking break, she's had it so rough over the past ten episodes.  I wanted her to get her dream guy so bad.   I can't wait for her to just start killing people.

At this point I'm kinda over Alice, Julia and Kady.  Their so melodramatic and their stories always seem like the weaker parts of episodes. 

Nice seeing Jane again,  I've missed her. 

Seriously, love Margo.  I know Penny is a jerk, but he really gets kicked in the teeth a lot.  Didn't Penny sentence himself to servitude in the library for Kady?  Also, Julia literally left them all to die and they seem more okay with her.

On 2/8/2018 at 1:58 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

I'm stuck feeling really unsettled by this whole episode. For all that there were things which were great, there was just an overall sadness hanging over it. Nothing went the way it should have. I felt horrible for poor Margo! And while the Quentin/Eliot life was sweet on one hand, I kept imagining them missing their other friends, and the friends left behind who were missing them...not knowing where or how they might have been lost. And having had Q turn to Eliot physically for at least a moment (I guess it's up to the individual viewer to decide whether it was any more than a night), leaving Eliot to have just that fleeting memory for the rest of a life of presumed celibacy to sustain him...Even though they were all a family in the end and led lives with a devoted meaning behind them, it must have still been a difficult and lonesome existence on many levels.

Not that I didn't like the episode - I did. I thought it was well done and incredibly complex in the way it wove all the stories and elements together. I had watched a chunk of season 1 last night (around episodes 4 to 8-ish) since I couldn't get access to this episode until this morning, and kept noticing a lot of foreshadowing and such, which really makes it seem that the whole show is not as random and made-up-as-they-go-along as it sometimes appears to be.

I usually have to watch each episode at least two or three times to really get it straight in my mind, and while this past episode is no different in that regard, I just don't feel as though  I can go through all that again right away! 

 

On 2/8/2018 at 3:14 PM, AudienceofOne said:

Season 1 had some pacing issues because of the amount of information it was trying to impart and season 2 was mostly prologue to the loss of magic. Now the show has finally kicked into gear. So, yes, this season is much better because it's the culmination of two seasons of set up.

There is so much going on thematically in this show about entitlement and privilege and basing it around a giant religious parable about Victorian-era rich kids who never grow up - while simultaneously subverting that story - is the best thing about it.

Me too. I loved it.

I am saying it....the Magicians is a better show then the latest season of Game of Thrown.  The episode was incredibly powerful and smart.   I wish this show had more of a following.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I need to go back and watch the episode again because I swear SyFy cut some of that out.

I just rewatched that part of the episode and it's exactly the same as the clip they posted on YouTube. I even checked the time stamps and they're exactly the same length.

[iMonrey]

Yeah for some reason I just didn't register the kiss between them.

Theoretically there's no reason why Quentin and Eliot would remember a timeline that Margo prevented from taking place. But then again, since Margo did prevent that timeline from taking place, there should not have been any Old Quentin in the past to deliver that message to her on her wedding day. Which means she would never have prevented that timeline from happening. Ugh. My head hurts now.

I mean, I guess the idea here (assuming the writers thought this all out) is that there are now two timelines, and the echo of one is what Quentin and Eliot remember in the other. 

[AudienceofOne]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah for some reason I just didn't register the kiss between them.

Theoretically there's no reason why Quentin and Eliot would remember a timeline that Margo prevented from taking place. But then again, since Margo did prevent that timeline from taking place, there should not have been any Old Quentin in the past to deliver that message to her on her wedding day. Which means she would never have prevented that timeline from happening. Ugh. My head hurts now.

I mean, I guess the idea here (assuming the writers thought this all out) is that there are now two timelines, and the echo of one is what Quentin and Eliot remember in the other. 

The multiverse theory of time travel is God's gift to TV writers. No paradoxes. Or rather there are paradoxes but they just don't matter. I can hand wave this as "magic!" whereas when 12 Monkeys pulled a pregnancy from a conception that literally never happened I threw something at my TV. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah for some reason I just didn't register the kiss between them.

Theoretically there's no reason why Quentin and Eliot would remember a timeline that Margo prevented from taking place. But then again, since Margo did prevent that timeline from taking place, there should not have been any Old Quentin in the past to deliver that message to her on her wedding day. Which means she would never have prevented that timeline from happening. Ugh. My head hurts now.

I mean, I guess the idea here (assuming the writers thought this all out) is that there are now two timelines, and the echo of one is what Quentin and Eliot remember in the other. 

The part that made it ok for me is that Quentin and Elliot didn't remember until they returned to Fillory.  Fillory is a place where there is Jane has used some kind of time loop device repeatedly and created a place where  all time lines exist at once  so I can handwave that there is memory leakage to people who participated to multiple timelines.

It was also such a lovely episode that it would have been sad if no one remembered.

It is kind of interesting that a lot of last season was about Quentin's desperation to get Alice back.  And now Quentin has the memory of moving on and having a family.  It kind of underlines my feeling that this isn't a show where shipping couples romantically makes sense.  There is no one and only true love for anyone.  Its more about the bonds of friendship.

I really like that Quentin and Elliott took the position that they needed to go to Fillory to support Margo in dealing with being married to the fratricide ax murderer.

[festivus]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

It is kind of interesting that a lot of last season was about Quentin's desperation to get Alice back.  And now Quentin has the memory of moving on and having a family.  It kind of underlines my feeling that this isn't a show where shipping couples romantically makes sense.  There is no one and only true love for anyone.  Its more about the bonds of friendship.

Yes. This show more than any other show I watch(with the exception of The Good Place) is about friendship and I love that.

[WildPlum]

Not really liking where I think the Alice story line is going - as she keeps telling Q, pre-niffin Alice is dead and gone and what's left in her place is sort of nasty. Like when she kills the lamprey and watches his pretty colors, just like she killed the entire rest of his family for? I think if Julia gives Alice the demi-god seed Bad Things are going to happen.  The Alice that was willing to die for the rest of them is not this Alice. And she was one of my favorite characters.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah for some reason I just didn't register the kiss between them.

The kisses between them were definitely shown in the original broadcast. I remember because I was surprised that the show finally decided to go there, so it made sense to me when that became a time loop they didn't remember, which disappointed me. I was glad when they both remembered the peaches and plums at the same time at the end of the episode. What I loved is that Quentin kissed Eliot first. Over the years we have seen Eliot giving Quentin some looks so we knew he was attracted to Quentin. Having Quentin initiate the kiss made it clear that he was also attracted to Eliot even when he was not having a drunken threesome. I also liked that it set up their relationship in Fillory as more than just platonic friends because if you edit out that brief scene of them kissing on the mosaic, it looks like Quentin falls in love with Arielle and then Eliot is here to comfort him when she's gone, which would make Eliot's "we had a family" description sound like Quentin and Arielle had a kid and Eliot was there as the celibate uncle.

My nitpick about this episode was that Margo had just sent a bunny to Quentin and Eliot so they could have given the bunny a message for Margo ("Found the next part of the quest, be back soon!") before walking into the clock. Like seriously, you guys, you can't just walk into some kind of portal and not tell people! They will think you just disappeared without a trace! [/mom]

Edited February 13, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip: To have and to...huh?

[gemmalogical]

"... princes who like to shoot girls with arrows" was not only funny, but very meta. Well played, show.

Alternate time lines make my head hurt so I'll just settle for the loveliness of Q & E's sojourn.

[iMonrey]

Quote

My nitpick about this episode was that Margo had just sent a bunny to Quentin and Eliot so they could have given the bunny a message for Margo ("Found the next part of the quest, be back soon!") before walking into the clock. Like seriously, you guys, you can't just walk into some kind of portal and not tell people! They will think you just disappeared without a trace! [/mom]

But Quentin and Eliot didn't know they were walking into the Fillory of the past. They were headed to present-day Fillory anyway to find the next key when the got the Bunny-Gram from Margo, so there was no reason for them to reply since - as far as they knew- they were on their way to see her anyway.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But Quentin and Eliot didn't know they were walking into the Fillory of the past. They were headed to present-day Fillory anyway to find the next key when the got the Bunny-Gram from Margo, so there was no reason for them to reply since - as far as they knew- they were on their way to see her anyway.

The paranoid part of me thinks that any time you’re about to enter a magical portal, you should let people know beforehand. Quick text, a post it note, etc. will do if a bunny isn’t around. You never know what will happen and at least that way if you are gone too long, someone will know which portal you used and where you thought you were going!

[AudienceofOne]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What I loved is that Quentin kissed Eliot first. Over the years we have seen Eliot giving Quentin some looks so we knew he was attracted to Quentin. Having Quentin initiate the kiss made it clear that he was also attracted to Eliot even when he was not having a drunken threesome. I also liked that it set up their relationship in Fillory as more than just platonic friends because if you edit out that brief scene of them kissing on the mosaic, it looks like Quentin falls in love with Arielle and then Eliot is here to comfort him when she's gone, which would make Eliot's "we had a family" description sound like Quentin and Arielle had a kid and Eliot was there as the celibate uncle.

Mileage varies. I interpreted that kiss as more affection than passion and the next scene is Elliot reassuring him that he doesn't have to "read too much into it", which suggests that Quentin wasn't entirely comfortable with what happened. They were lonely and confused and lost and had a moment. I then interpreted the rest of the scenario exactly as you put it - that they were good friends and Elliot was more like an uncle to Quentin's son. I'm sure they had some more odd "moments" but Quentin is pretty squarely in the Hetero box. I saw it as a testament to how enduring their friendship is rather than a signal that Quentin is attracted to Elliot.

But there was a lot of hinting and not a lot of showing so I could be entirely wrong. And it probably doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things. They just love each other, in whatever way you want to look at it.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm sure they had some more odd "moments" but Quentin is pretty squarely in the Hetero box. 

I think this falls under the category of today's younger generations seeing sexuality as being more fluid. I tend to agree that Quentin identifies chiefly as hetero - he's had an unrequited love for Julia since they were kids, and then fell in love with Alice. The drunken three-way with Eliot and Margo doesn't really tell us much aside from the fact that the three of them were bombed out of their minds.

But I also agree there's a emotional connection between Quentin and Eliot that transcends sexual preference, and that Quentin is capable of conveying that in the way he knows Eliot wants. That says more about Quentin's feelings about Eliot than about his sexual preference. More and more today's youth doesn't need to see everything in black and white the way we used to.

[festivus]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But I also agree there's a emotional connection between Quentin and Eliot that transcends sexual preference, and that Quentin is capable of conveying that in the way he knows Eliot wants. That says more about Quentin's feelings about Eliot than about his sexual preference. More and more today's youth doesn't need to see everything in black and white the way we used to.

I agree and I love it. I myself don't like labels so I don't want to label Quentin as straight or even bisexual. He could be like Ianto on Torchwood when his sister asked him so it's men, huh and he answered her with no, just one man. In other words, it was about the person and not about defining his sexuality as one thing or another. We don't really know anything about Quentin and other men we just know his connection with Eliot and that is being portrayed as more than just a sexual thing. The show seems to be going for a more modern way of thinking and that's just one of the things I love about it. The scene can be open to different interpretations and I think that's great.

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, festivus said:

I agree and I love it. I myself don't like labels so I don't want to label Quentin as straight or even bisexual.

So while I agree with this to a certain extent and openly admit to being somewhat of a forum dinosaur, I can't help thinking of that episode of Misfits where they go:

"Why do we need to LABEL everything?"

"Because that's the only way we all know what the fuck is going on."

[festivus]

33 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

So while I agree with this to a certain extent and openly admit to being somewhat of a forum dinosaur, I can't help thinking of that episode of Misfits where they go:

"Why do we need to LABEL everything?"

"Because that's the only way we all know what the fuck is going on."

I don't think you're a dinosaur, labels can be useful and many people use them to define themselves. Just for me personally, as I get older I'm finding that I think things can sometimes be more complex than a certain label can fit.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip: the clock (which reminds me - will the key work on the clock again or was that a one time deal?)

[Kathira]

This episode reminded me of Star Trek TNG's The Inner Light, where Picard lives out a life on an planet in his mind. It wasn't quite at that level (Patrick Stewart was robbed of an Emmy), but it had that quality. At the end I wondered if they could have found the key piece sooner if they had dug around a bit, but I think the point was that  the solution to a design representing the ineffable beauty of the world (or something like that), could only be found after they had lived a lifetime dedicated to it. I like the idea that the solution was their lives, well lived. Eliot's sad, amazed comment "we had a family" at the end made me tear up a little. I like to think that that Q & E loved each other in whatever form that took. That that's what the true beauty of the world is - a lifetime of love and caring and dedication.

I love this show.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Kathira

[AudienceofOne]

6 hours ago, Kathira said:

I like to think that that Q & E loved each other in whatever form that took. That that's what the true beauty of the world is - a lifetime of love and caring and dedication.

I love this show.

I agree. And this is why I often say "sex is a red herring". 

[Guest]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:20 AM, Kathira said:

This episode reminded me of Star Trek TNG's The Inner Light, where Picard lives out a life on an planet in his mind. It wasn't quite at that level (Patrick Stewart was robbed of an Emmy), but it had that quality. At the end I wondered if they could have found the key piece sooner if they had dug around a bit, but I think the point was that  the solution to a design representing the ineffable beauty of the world (or something like that), could only be found after they had lived a lifetime dedicated to it. I like the idea that the solution was their lives, well lived. Eliot's sad, amazed comment "we had a family" at the end made me tear up a little. I like to think that that Q & E loved each other in whatever form that took. That that's what the true beauty of the world is - a lifetime of love and caring and dedication.

I love this show.

I think that piece was never there until they demonstrated lives well lived. It was basically created when Elliot's life ended.  If Quentin had intended a Viking funeral, it probably would have ended up in a wood pile.

[daisycat]

On 2/11/2018 at 2:15 PM, festivus said:

Martin was The Beast. The other brother was Rupert.

Ah, of course. Thank you.

[The Companion]

On 2/7/2018 at 11:42 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What I really loved was that they made it clear that Eliot was NOT a separate entity from Quentin’s wife and son. When they remembered what happened, Eliot said, “We had a family.” 

 

I loved this, too. We didn't have to understand everything happening there to understand that the three of them were in this together and they found a way to make it work. The story was one of a family, in whatever form that took. 

On 2/8/2018 at 5:25 PM, Philbert said:

 

True but at least they've been pointing it out as they do it. That makes me think that she's due for some tremendous revenge by the end of the season. Everybody knows that Margot is awesome, even Jane Chatwin...and she's fucking dead.

I wonder if that isn't why they threw in Jane Chatwin's comments about how her future was gonna be awesome. A promise to the audience that she is gonna get to rage later. Margot is amazing.

I am dying to cosplay her with the crown and eyepatch. I need someone with more talent than me to make that first dress she was wearing with matching eye patch. I will wear that outfit to the grocery store.

On 2/9/2018 at 8:38 PM, wayne67 said:

I think it's amusing that Quentin gets to have so much interaction with Jane, his childhood idol and escapist fantasy outlet.

 

I cannot help but be amused every time the answer to some mystery in the books is him. You can just imagine him wondering about all these whimsical characters for years, only to have it turn out to be him. 

On 2/12/2018 at 10:52 PM, festivus said:

Yes. This show more than any other show I watch(with the exception of The Good Place) is about friendship and I love that.

Seconded! Though some part of me still ships Tahani and Eleanor. Team Elehani!

On 2/13/2018 at 3:01 PM, festivus said:

I agree and I love it. I myself don't like labels so I don't want to label Quentin as straight or even bisexual. He could be like Ianto on Torchwood when his sister asked him so it's men, huh and he answered her with no, just one man. In other words, it was about the person and not about defining his sexuality as one thing or another. We don't really know anything about Quentin and other men we just know his connection with Eliot and that is being portrayed as more than just a sexual thing. The show seems to be going for a more modern way of thinking and that's just one of the things I love about it. The scene can be open to different interpretations and I think that's great.

As I said above, I think one of the best parts of the excerpts of their life is that they clearly had figured out something that worked for them. They found a way to love and support one another and raise a child together. We didn't need to know what has happening in between. I got the impression of an semi-open marriage/polyamorous relationship but it doesn't really matter where you end up on the sexual side of things. They had a family. No reason to overthink it (per Eliot).

 

So we binge watched Seasons 1 and 2, and are catching up on this season on demand. I am excited to finally find time to post between episodes! I echo the love for the bunny-grams. They are absolutely hilarious. The Q/Eliot story was so strong in this episode, that it is hard to think about the rest.

I was disappointed with Kady's storyline, but not necessarily about the anger (which I think is one of the ways people deal with grief and sadness) but more about the story feeling too much like the episode where Quentin was trapped in the asylum. Perhaps it is because I binge-watched it and the episodes are all so fresh, but it felt like more of the same. It also felt like there was too much build up for the payoff to be anger. While I think anger is a natural reaction to grief (my spouse does exactly this, getting angry instead of sad), we watched too much of Penny trying to get noticed for it to be that small of a reward. That being said, Arjun Gupta always brings his A game when it comes to emotionally charged scenes, doesn't he? 

The Julia/Alice scenes felt a little tacked on. It was like they didn't know what to do with those two characters. I imagine it will lead somewhere interesting, but I would really like to see some progress in both of their storylines. It feels like they haven't gotten to do as much as the rest of the cast. They basically got their characters turned into monsters and then semi-restored. I am ready to see something new for both of them.

[theatremouse]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:20 AM, Kathira said:

This episode reminded me of Star Trek TNG's The Inner Light, where Picard lives out a life on an planet in his mind.

I absolutely thought it was an intentional reference/homage to that episode (and the Adventure Time pillow fort episode, which was a riff on the same).

[treasaigh]

I recently binged season 2 and all of season 3 up to episode 7.  I really adored the Quentin/Eliot life.  It was truly beautiful, and come on, those two were seriously committed to the Quest.  One thing I noticed, or really flashed back to, is what the Cock mentioned to Eliot.  He was talking about Quentin and called him "brother of the heart" and "two parts of one whole".  They've been laying the groundwork for their deepening relationship for a very long time.  I'm actually wondering if the OTP of this show is Eliot/Quentin.  Maybe sexual, probably not, but I'm thinking those two might get that metaphorical ride into the sunset in the end. 

Couple random questions... did they spend the entire time at that house?  Did they ever give up for a year?  Take a trip?  Go to the market?  Get a job?  Hey!  How did they afford peaches????

I do wish when his son left, they have given us a better idea of the relationship he had with Eliot.  Is he a "Dad"?  Uncle Eliot?  That would have helped us understand the relationship between Quentin and Eliot.  His son was so young when his mother died, that the only parents he knows are Eliot and Quentin, but how does he feel about Eliot?  Inquiring minds want to know!

I also want to know how much they actually remember of that life.  Is it just moments and feelings, or do they have all the memories of that time?  If they remember it all, they need to pay that off by showing us two people who spent about 50 years together.  They should be the old married couple of the group.  At some point Margo should notice and maybe feel a little third wheel-ish.

Speaking of which, can I say how much I love Margo calling them her "best friends".  Did anyone expect Quentin to be Margo's best friend?  Cause Margo is awesome, and Quentin... is... not.  :)

[festivus]

49 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

Speaking of which, can I say how much I love Margo calling them her "best friends".  Did anyone expect Quentin to be Margo's best friend?  Cause Margo is awesome, and Quentin... is... not.  :)

I recently re-binged the whole series and there were some lovely moments between Quentin and Margo where she let him see more of the real Margo and you could see them bonding. I think the show did a great job showing their developing friendship.

55 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

One thing I noticed, or really flashed back to, is what the Cock mentioned to Eliot.  He was talking about Quentin and called him "brother of the heart" and "two parts of one whole".  They've been laying the groundwork for their deepening relationship for a very long time.  I'm actually wondering if the OTP of this show is Eliot/Quentin.  Maybe sexual, probably not, but I'm thinking those two might get that metaphorical ride into the sunset in the end. 

I've thought as I've watched the show that it's primarily about friendship even though there's lots of bed-hopping going on. Finding those people who love you for who you are with all your flaws. I think that people that have certain romantic ships may end up being disappointed at the end. I just think this show is different than something like The Vampire Diaries where the ships tend to drive the show. You never know though, this show will zig when you think it's going to zag. I do believe that Quentin and Eliot are brothers of the heart whether it's ever romantic or not. Hopefully they will ride off into the sunset together. :)

[Hanahope]

When this show is over, I'm definitely hoping to buy the entire season on DVD, because it really seems that the writers had a good plot/story line planned out and keep "asides" referenced again throughout the story.  Like the issue with Elliot's life books.  I always assumed the large number of life books was because of Jane's constant resetting the time loop.  But this more recent time travel could be there too.  

I too think that Q and E still had their family and Q's descendants will be found in Fillory.  And i love the idea that Q/E's stories created the 90s pop culture trivia quiz for kings/queens.

I love Margo's eye patches, how fashionable they are.  And I feel so much for her with that wedding and dealing with the fairy queen.  Bunny communicators are great!

I agree that while Julia may hate the source of her magic, she should think of it as a spoil of war, and not just give it away.  that will not work out well.

[daisycat]

I'm currently binging the first two seasons, and realized why the way Eliot was holding Quentin after Arielle's death seemed familiar - it was the same way Eliot held Quentin after Alice's death in "Divine Elimination".

Oh, heartbreak. Oh, Eliot.

I'd forgotten about one of my favorite moments between the two of them: when Quentin et al went back to Brakebills for the first time after Eliot and Fen's wedding. Quentin goes to say goodbye and that sad/beautiful hug between the two of them, and the laugh they share when Eliot suggests a little ass grab wouldn't be amiss...

[AudienceofOne]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 12:24 PM, festivus said:

I don't think you're a dinosaur, labels can be useful and many people use them to define themselves. Just for me personally, as I get older I'm finding that I think things can sometimes be more complex than a certain label can fit.

I've been thinking about this a lot in the last week because I just watched a Thai show called What The Duck. It's supposed to be Yaoi but I got to the end and realised it was like a subverted Yaoi. It asks a lot of these questions about love and relationships and sexuality and never really comes to a conclusion but the main OTP is two "straight" men. You might find it interesting too.

[tennisgurl]

Ever since this episode, I am kind of convinced that the show is screwing with us with its seemingly obvious Alice/Quentin endgame. They have all the signs of a classic TV OTP, but...when you really look at it, it almost seems like Quentin/Elliot endgame has been set up just as much, even going back to season 1, where Elliot was constantly engaging in pulling Quentin's metaphorical pigtails like a kid with a crush. And as this show likes to zip when you think it will zag, and subvert and play with all tropes it can find, I think they might go there. Alice and Quentin, even when I do like them together, are often kind of a mess who bring out the worst aspects of each other, while Quentin and Elliot tend to bring out the better sides, and usually have had a pretty stable relationship. Maybe, thats where this was heading the whole time? This episode also confirms that their magic based three way was not just a one time "magic made us do it" thing, but based on real feelings and attraction. I mean, Elliot has pretty obviously been into Quentin before, in the physical sense, but now its clear its not a one way street.  Maybe it wont end up being romantic (although, that would be pretty awesome and I am totally there for that) but I think Quentin's real soul mate might end up being Elliot, be it romantically or just as very close friends. 

But, I mean, when you make out and raise a family together, it kinds looks like its leaning in a certain way :) I mean, when the ghost Penny was hanging with described Quentin as a "white heterosexual hero type", I was like "well, your half right..."

[treasaigh]

Yeah, prior to this episode I was pretty much over Quentin/Alice.  How many times can someone tell you to take a hike before you finally get the message?  But this episode really did a nice job setting up Quentin/Eliot.  I don't think it'll end up being an explicit romantic relationship.  Maybe just a hint of the possibility.  Or maybe that whole poly Quentin/Eliot/Margo thing?

[Kathira]

On 2/20/2018 at 7:41 PM, theatremouse said:

I absolutely thought it was an intentional reference/homage to that episode (and the Adventure Time pillow fort episode, which was a riff on the same).

I've been rewatching the first series and there was a reference to a Star Trek episode in the one where Quentin is spell-trapped in a mental hospital of his mind. Alice shows up talking about aliens and Quentin says, no that was a Star Trek episode. I think it must have been the DS9 one where Sisko believes he's a writer in the 20th century. So there are definitely folks on the writing staff who are Star Trek fans. There's been other Trek-y stuff threaded in here and there, too.  

[tvfan1980]

I have just been watching Season 3. And saw there is a lot of talk re Quentin and Elliot. Personally, whilst the show is "fluid" on sexuality, I do think they have been clear that Elliot predominantly identifies as gay and prefers men, but has been shown to have intimate relations with women (noting the women he has had sex with on the show are women he "loves" even if not "in love" with). I think Quentin's sexuality has also been clear that he predominantly identifies as heterosexual, but has slept with Elliot (who he loves) in a moment of drunken fun and out of comfort. I don't know if I see the two being set up as soulmates. There is a lot of unfinished business between Alice and Quentin and still a lot of mileage there,which would need to start with Alice acknowledging and accepting herself before they could come back together. I think this episode was more to cater to some fans and solidify their friendship than hinting at some big build up to them being an end-game couple. I'm fully expecting season 4/5 to see Alice and Quentin coming back together. Although it is clear that Jason and Stella have a good friendship, so I have wondered if they'll toy with Julia/Quentin before going back to Alice/Quentin. 

[paramitch]

Apologies for the momentary soapbox, but there's a pretty simple word for Quentin's orientation: he's bisexual.

While I agree that Quentin may not be a 6 on the Kinsey scale, he has demonstrated incontrovertibly sexual feelings for both men and women openly on the show. He has now slept with Elliot at least twice now, both times consensually. It's canon.

So all the posts excusing Quentin's feelings or attempting to quantify them as being about "friendship" or "transcending" his sexual preference are arguably close to bi erasure for me. Eliot and Quentin have always had complex undercurrents -- as early as S1, Episode 2, Elliot jokes with Quentin (trying to distract him from his potential expulsion from Brakebills) about taking him off and seducing him, and Quentin smiles and says it "sounds nice."

I felt like the show further doubled down on this in this episode, in that it was Quentin who made the first move, just to make it clear that it wasn't Elliot acting out and Quentin responding out of loneliness, etc. Quentin wanted to sleep with Elliot again, and he did.

So, to me, Quentin's bi. It doesn't matter if his sexual feelings are for only one man or many (and yes, this bothered me when people did it with Ianto on "Torchwood" too).

I know mileage varies, so just my 2 cents.

Meanwhile, I loved this episode -- just a gorgeous chapter in "The Magicians." I tend to save up seasons of this show and then bingewatch them because I love the show so much, and this season has just been knocking me out. It's been an absolutely superb, rich season and I've been enjoying it so much.

And this is by far my favorite episode of the show ever. An absolutely gentle, complex and beautiful episode. I loved everything about it. And I love Elliot so much (and his unspoken love for Quentin), so when Quentin kissed Elliot I may have let out a pterodactyl screech of happiness. Just a really lovely moment, and so unhurried and simple.

On 2/13/2018 at 12:33 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What I loved is that Quentin kissed Eliot first. Over the years we have seen Eliot giving Quentin some looks so we knew he was attracted to Quentin. Having Quentin initiate the kiss made it clear that he was also attracted to Eliot even when he was not having a drunken threesome.

Hale is such a good actor (and I pretty much think that of all the gang, but especially Hale. The way he looks at Quentin breaks my heart a little. And I thought the kiss was absolutely lovely (and especially that Quentin initiated it). It also doubles down on Quentin having real attraction and romantic feelings for Elliot (although I've always felt that -- Quentin basically followed Elliot around with little hearts in his eyes in Season 1 even after he fell for Alice).

On 2/13/2018 at 11:31 AM, AudienceofOne said:

I interpreted that kiss as more affection than passion and the next scene is Elliot reassuring him that he doesn't have to "read too much into it", which suggests that Quentin wasn't entirely comfortable with what happened. They were lonely and confused and lost and had a moment. I then interpreted the rest of the scenario exactly as you put it - that they were good friends and Elliot was more like an uncle to Quentin's son. I'm sure they had some more odd "moments" but Quentin is pretty squarely in the Hetero box.

I thought that was Elliot providing a quiet reflexive escape clause in case Quentin freaked out (but he didn't). I definitely interpreted the rest of the scenario differently.

On 2/14/2018 at 5:20 AM, Kathira said:

I think the point was that  the solution to a design representing the ineffable beauty of the world (or something like that), could only be found after they had lived a lifetime dedicated to it. I like the idea that the solution was their lives, well lived. Eliot's sad, amazed comment "we had a family" at the end made me tear up a little. I like to think that that Q & E loved each other in whatever form that took. That that's what the true beauty of the world is - a lifetime of love and caring and dedication.

I love this show.

Beautifully put. This was one of my favorite episodes of this show -- it was so rich and expressive, and there was so much emotion, beauty and horror (poor Margo!).

On 2/20/2018 at 1:03 PM, The Companion said:

I wonder if that isn't why they threw in Jane Chatwin's comments about how her future was gonna be awesome. A promise to the audience that she is gonna get to rage later. Margot is amazing.

As I said above, I think one of the best parts of the excerpts of their life is that they clearly had figured out something that worked for them. They found a way to love and support one another and raise a child together. We didn't need to know what has happening in between. I got the impression of an semi-open marriage/polyamorous relationship but it doesn't really matter where you end up on the sexual side of things. They had a family. No reason to overthink it (per Eliot).

I was disappointed with Kady's storyline, but not necessarily about the anger (which I think is one of the ways people deal with grief and sadness) but more about the story feeling too much like the episode where Quentin was trapped in the asylum. Perhaps it is because I binge-watched it and the episodes are all so fresh, but it felt like more of the same. It also felt like there was too much build up for the payoff to be anger. While I think anger is a natural reaction to grief (my spouse does exactly this, getting angry instead of sad), we watched too much of Penny trying to get noticed for it to be that small of a reward. That being said, Arjun Gupta always brings his A game when it comes to emotionally charged scenes, doesn't he? 

Margo is terrific -- Summer Bishil manages to make her consistently tough, vulnerable, crude yet genuinely warm and empathetic. When the ax flipped during the wedding I was so shocked I actually gasped out loud. Sheesh.

I'm with you on Quentin, his wife, and Elliot -- to me it was pretty heavily implied that Elliot, Quentin, and Quentin's wife appeared to have a comfortable poly relationship. I also loved the son's final message of love and then departure -- that entire sequence was just gorgeous.

Kady is the weakest character for me in Season 3 so far. I don't always fully buy her reactions or find them logical, and that scene just didn't work for me at all. She has the man she loves in front of her -- the man she thought was dead -- who has been through pretty literal hell, had to burn his own body, has moved heaven and earth to reach her, and she literally throws down the key and silences him, then huffs off in a snit.

On 2/25/2018 at 12:20 PM, treasaigh said:

I recently binged season 2 and all of season 3 up to episode 7.  I really adored the Quentin/Eliot life.  It was truly beautiful, and come on, those two were seriously committed to the Quest.  One thing I noticed, or really flashed back to, is what the Cock mentioned to Eliot.  He was talking about Quentin and called him "brother of the heart" and "two parts of one whole".  They've been laying the groundwork for their deepening relationship for a very long time.  I'm actually wondering if the OTP of this show is Eliot/Quentin.  Maybe sexual, probably not, but I'm thinking those two might get that metaphorical ride into the sunset in the end. 

Speaking of which, can I say how much I love Margo calling them her "best friends".  Did anyone expect Quentin to be Margo's best friend?  Cause Margo is awesome, and Quentin... is... not.  :)

That's a beautiful and subtle detail. It's interesting how intertwined the relationships are now. They all love each other so deeply now, and that's a beautiful thing the show has been able to make very clear.

On 3/22/2018 at 7:22 PM, daisycat said:

I'm currently binging the first two seasons, and realized why the way Eliot was holding Quentin after Arielle's death seemed familiar - it was the same way Eliot held Quentin after Alice's death in "Divine Elimination".

Oh, heartbreak. Oh, Eliot.

I'd forgotten about one of my favorite moments between the two of them: when Quentin et al went back to Brakebills for the first time after Eliot and Fen's wedding. Quentin goes to say goodbye and that sad/beautiful hug between the two of them, and the laugh they share when Eliot suggests a little ass grab wouldn't be amiss...

The scene of Elliot comforting Quentin after the death of his wife was just wrenching. And yeah, I think there's just always going to be that little spark between Elliot and Quentin. I'm not sure if they're OTP -- I suspect not, although I'd adore it -- but I think they'll always love each other in a romantic way even if they don't express it very often.

[AuntieMame]

I loved this episode. It was poignant to the point of heart piercing. I really love the fact that emphasis is put on feelings of love for an individual rather than adherence to a strictly labeled and enforced orientation. Makes me wonder if concentrating on live and connection between the individuals involved rather than the enforcement of norms might change a lot of different types of hate. 

[CigarDoug]

On 2/8/2018 at 7:56 PM, ParadoxLost said:

It can't really be explained that the mosaic was solved in the book unless they did.  That Jane had the key on her body.  That Quentin had someone deliver the letter to Margo and it was still there when they came back with her.

I'm pretty sure if they ran an Ancestry.com DNA test that a good portion of Fillorians would be X% Quentin.

It also makes me wonder if some of the legends about the children of Earth ruling Fillory via pop culture trivia test was a result of stories Elliot told Quentin's son and grandkids.

Every interaction between our heroes and the Chatwins occurs in the book. Q just doesn't realize it until it happens. That's the beauty of timey-wimey stuff.

Jane's body had the key because she always carried it, so it remained with her physical body. The Jane that Margo met was in a magical bubble that exists across all time. That Jane knew she was dead, but she hadn't experienced it yet.

What is hard about the letter from Q? He gave the letter to someone, said to wait until a High Queen Margo shows up, and give it to her on her wedding day. It just took decades to be delivered, that's all.

Again, timey-wimey stuff. If you are part of the change in time, you aren't affected as much.

 

On 2/8/2018 at 7:56 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I'm pretty sure if they ran an Ancestry.com DNA test that a good portion of Fillorians would be X% Quentin.

When Q and Elliot first arrived for the mosaic challenge, I thought they said it was ten years before Jane showed up. Apparently, it was more like fifty years. But it's not more than fifty years at most from that point with Jane and when our heroes become Kings and Queens of FIllory. It's not HUNDREDS of years. Q would have grandkids running around, not thousands of descendants, at least in any view of Fillory we have seen.

Incidentally, did Jane and Martin become King and Queen? In the Narnia books there were four Pevensies. It looks like there are just two Chatwins, so I think the answer is no.

On 2/8/2018 at 7:56 PM, ParadoxLost said:

It also makes me wonder if some of the legends about the children of Earth ruling Fillory via pop culture trivia test was a result of stories Elliot told Quentin's son and grandkids.

That knight was ancient. Whatever person it was who gave him the questions, it's not our heroes, at least in any visit they have made so far. I think that's one question that won't be answered. It certainly wasn't Jane or Martin, who were never King and Queen (so they wouldn't have the authority), and weren't living in the 1990s on Earth prior to visiting Fillory.

[CigarDoug]

On 2/7/2018 at 11:29 PM, tennisgurl said:

Poor Margot is always dealing with something! She finds a sweet arranged husband, only to have to watch him to butchered by his sociopath of a brother who she now has to marry. I guess her asking if Micah was a "shooting women with crossbows" prince was foreshadowing. Its wasn't him, it was the little brother thats the Joffrey of the family! We should have seen it coming! And poor Micah was hot too! That little shit better get his. 

What I found more amusing and meta is that Esme BIanco, who plays Eliza/Watcher Woman/grown-up Jane Chadwick, who Margo goes to see later in this episode, also plays Ros on Game of Thrones and is the same red-haired prostitute that Joffrey ties to the bed and shoots with his crossbow.