S13.E11: Breakdown

[Diane]

TIME TO RETURN THE FAVOR – Donna (guest star Briana Buckmaster) calls Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) for help after her niece, Wendy (guest star Sarah Dugdale), goes missing. The three hunters discover Wendy was kidnapped by a man who sells human parts to monsters in a grotesque online auction and race to save her before it is too late.  Writer: Davy Perez  Director: Amyn Kaderali

[catrox14]

[Jediknight]

Donna should know that she doesn't need to say anything like "I know this isn't up your usual alley", she's pretty much a Winchester, Sam and Dean are going to help her out no matter what.  I liked Dean immediately going to saying that he's family with Donna, when questioned by the FBI agent.  It's the truth, Donna's family, so Donna's niece is also family.

I'm sad to see Doug go, but I'm glad he lived.  He was a good guy, and he just wasn't cut out for the hunting life.  He doesn't hate Donna, he doesn't hate the Winchesters, he just isn't cut out for the hunting life.  Not everybody is, just don't kill him off.  I admit I would have like to see him be a happy dorky father/uncle figure to Alex, Claire, and Patience.

I thought that the window washer was going to pop up later on.  I didn't think he'd be evil, I thought he'd help out Sam and Dean, like he was a good vampire or something.

And that agent's motive was stupid.  It won't save many lives.  The monsters that don't win that auction, will go out and kill somebody to eat.  They obviously have no problem watching innocent people be killed so they can eat, so it's not a Benny situation where he was drinking from blood banks and the like.

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

And that agent's motive was stupid.  It won't save many lives.  The monsters that don't win that auction, will go out and kill somebody to eat.  They obviously have no problem watching innocent people be killed so they can eat, so it's not a Benny situation where he was drinking from blood banks and the like.

That wasn't his real motive.  He was just a psychopath trying to find a justification for what he was doing.

 

4 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

I'm sad to see Doug go, but I'm glad he lived.  He was a good guy, and he just wasn't cut out for the hunting life.  He doesn't hate Donna, he doesn't hate the Winchesters, he just isn't cut out for the hunting life.  Not everybody is, just don't kill him off.  I admit I would have like to see him be a happy dorky father/uncle figure to Alex, Claire, and Patience.

When the vampire attacked him, I was thinking I was going to be so mad if they killed him. And then I thought it was kind of weird because with the exception of Bobby, I really don't think I've gotten mad about one death on this show.  And Doug was who I was going to be upset about?  That seemed weird to me, but I'm sure I had my reasons.

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

Donna should know that she doesn't need to say anything like "I know this isn't up your usual alley", she's pretty much a Winchester, Sam and Dean are going to help her out no matter what. 

This isn't really true.  Sam didn't want to help.  He was ready to bail after finding it out wasn't there kind of thing.

[Bobcatkitten]

I liked this episode a ton!

I do think that Sam being mopey and upset kind of came out of nowhere. I wish they had set that up more. Having said that Jared did a great job. The last scene with Dean in the car flat out depressed me. Mostly because he's right. And I'm not used to hearing it from him. I'm used to it from Dean.

The case was creepy as hell. Humans suck. I was definitely on the edge of my seat. The FBI go being involved was a bit obvious but you can't have everything. Doug shone in this episode. And Donna did great with the emotion. I thought her scene with the preacher was very effective. 

Dean had some great lines. Pancakes will be meme/gif within minutes. As well as Mr. Freaking Rise and Shine and Bring it on, Twilight. 

[DittyDotDot]

Well color me surprised, I had it pegged that they'd not be able to save Wendy.

Pretty good and creepy episode. Well written and well realized; one of their best in a very long time, IMO. Donna was all sorts of awesome! Nice to see her be more than comic relief.

5 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

I do think that Sam being mopey and upset kind of came out of nowhere. I wish they had set that up more.

I thought that too at first, but then after thinking about it, I'm not sure when they could've. His mopiness is a result of what happened in The Bad Place--losing Jack and Mary and then Kaia. This is really the first episode we've seen Sam and Dean since all that went down.

Edited January 26, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

I liked this episode a ton!

I do think that Sam being mopey and upset kind of came out of nowhere. I wish they had set that up more. Having said that Jared did a great job. The last scene with Dean in the car flat out depressed me. Mostly because he's right. And I'm not used to hearing it from him. I'm used to it from Dean.

 

I feel like they memorize each other's speeches and then when they're feeling in a certain mood, they parrot them back to each other.   When Dean said, "we do save people," I'm pretty sure I remember Sam saying that to Dean.  I think what we have to worry about is them both being in a bad place at the same time.  I'm not sure how that would work.

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't mind that they gave Sam one of Dean's oft-repeated lines (it ends bloody). But having him deliver it like it's a revelation? Like it's news to Dean and oh isn't it amazing how perceptive his little brother is, because he never would've seen that? Please. 

The case was super-creepy, and an interesting twist on Dean's 'monsters I get, people are crazy' stance: The crazy people working for the scary monsters. Huh. I like Dean and Donna working together enough that I could skim over her telling Dean to get the blood and make the cure (like he wasn't going to do that anyway). Count me among the surprised that both Doug and Wendy survived the episode.. It was almost too easy that they saved Wendy - enough to make me wonder if there's more, like maybe she was turned too and they just don't know it. It was kind of weird that there was no scene with her in the aftermath. OAN it was astonishing nice to see they actually remembered Dean was a vampire for a hot minute. I knew as soon as I saw him being cured in the previouslies, somebody was gonna get turned.

And another Shaving People/Punting Things moment revealed: "Show's over." I enjoyed that.

 

ETA: At long last, somebody busted them on their true identities because they recognized the Impala. Ha!!

Edited January 26, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Katy M]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't mind that they gave Sam one of Dean's oft-repeated lines (it ends bloody). But having him deliver it like it's a revelation? Like it's news to Dean and oh isn't it amazing how perceptive his little brother is, because he never would've seen that? Please. 

I didn't get that at all.  I got more that Dean was confused as Sam is usually the more optimistic of the two and he was wondering where all of that was coming from.

[bethy]

I was really disappointed that Doug's reaction to finding out about monsters was to break up with Donna. I, too, would have loved to see him be dorky uncle/father to the girls. But I guess since Wayward Sisters is all about the girl-power, having even one consistent male character on the show - even if he wasn't a hunter/fighter - would be too much. Sure. Fine. Whatever.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I didn't get that at all.  I got more that Dean was confused as Sam is usually the more optimistic of the two and he was wondering where all of that was coming from.

That's cool. It's just not how I perceived it. I'm really kind of over them re-purposing iconic and semi-iconic lines for other people, but apart from that, it was the delivery that made it seem that way to me.

I'm honestly surprised that Sam didn't get turned by the vamp, tbh - it's one of the few things Dean has done that he hasn't. Heh.

PSA...  If, like me, you can't find the 'like' ♥ now, it's all the way over to the bottom right of the post.

[Bobcatkitten]

I also took Dean's reaction to Sam saying "it ends bloody" to him being surprised that Sam was saying it - not by the sentiment itself. 

[gonzosgirrl]

27 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Well color me surprised, I had it pegged that they'd not be able to save Wendy.

Pretty good and creepy episode. Well written and well realized; one of their best in a very long time, IMO. Donna was all sorts of awesome! Nice to see her be more than comic relief.

I thought that too at first, but then after thinking about it, I'm not sure when they could've. His mopiness is a result of what happened in The Bad Place--losing Jack and Mary and then Kaia. This is really the first episode we've seen Sam and Dean since all that went down.

Didn't you find it a little odd though, that he was all sad and 'everybody around us dies' about Kaia, but he was seemingly okay to walk away from Donna and her niece because it wasn't their kind of thing? I am not the biggest Sam fan in the world, but even I was saying wtf over that. It was so out of character for him that showing him having trouble sleeping and turning down pancakes just wasn't enough for me to believe it.

Oh, and Sam's heart is worth a cool half-mil. (I thought for a moment Sera was back, LOL)

[DittyDotDot]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Didn't you find it a little odd though, that he was all sad and 'everybody around us dies' about Kaia, but he was seemingly okay to walk away from Donna and her niece because it wasn't their kind of thing? I am not the biggest Sam fan in the world, but even I was saying wtf over that. It was so out of character for him that showing him having trouble sleeping and turning down pancakes just wasn't enough for me to believe it.

Odd? I guess, but I think that's the point. When you're depressed and down, you don't always make sense. And, if it had been in character then he wouldn't be down right now. I don't think this attitude will last, but it must be exhausting always trying to hold the faith and trying to believe it's all going to turn out okay when everything around you continues to fall to shit, so I think Sam is due a bit of a "breakdown."

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh, and Sam's heart is worth a cool half-mil. (I thought for a moment Sera was back, LOL)

I thought that was stupid, too.  There's nothing special about his heart.  They should have auctioned him off whole and alive.  I can see monsters wanting that.  Although, on the other hand, if I were the auctioneer, I would not have done that, because stupid winning monster would let him escape.  Obviously.  I could also see it perhaps making  more sense in seasons 4 and 5 when he had the special blood thing going on.  Plus, where are monsters getting a half a mill for one meal.  

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Odd? I guess, but I think that's the point. When you're depressed and down, you don't always make sense. And, if it had been in character then he wouldn't be down right now. I don't think this attitude will last, but it must be exhausting always trying to hold the faith and trying to believe it's all going to turn out okay when everything around you continues to fall to shit, so I think Sam is due a bit of a "breakdown."

Maybe so. Unfortunately, it didn't come across that way to me.

I actually agree that Sam is due his breakdown, but it wasn't handled well IMO, based on Sam's character.

ETA: What I mean by that is - I am the type of person who is great in a high stress situation, whether emotional or physical danger. As long as someone else is freaking out, I am the calm, rational, helpful one. It's when shit is going down and nobody else seems to notice, or when the situation is resolved that I tend to lose it. I am the kind of person that gets down/depressed once there is time to stew - which seems to be what's happened here. I just don't see that as being Sam's nature, so his behavior this episode seems out of left field to me.

Edited January 26, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Pondlass1]

Didn't Jared appear dog tired, tho?  In one shot he actually had suitcases under his eyes and I don't think it was makeup.

I had the FBI agent pegged right away.   But it was refreshing that someone twigged and recognized Baby.  That they drive about in such a distinctive car is a bit silly... (but oh so cool.)

Brianna surprised me.  TBH I've not been a fan of toothy gormless grins, but she actually is quite the good actress.  I hope they allow this side of Brianna to shine in WS.  It wasn't overacting or goofy or anything I'd expected from her.

YAY, Dean is back!!  He's not moping about Mother or Kaia, he's eating pancakes and bashing heads onto tables. Way to go Dean!!  

I enjoyed the episode from start to finish. It was entertaining if nothing else.  But it's beginning to feel like there are more monsters than humans.

Hope ratings are good for this one.  

***No emoji option yet? ?

[bethy]

If Sam has a meltdown, I hope at least part of it involves going off on Mary for the way she treated him and Dean last year. We got some emotional closure for Dean on that. I’d like some for Sam, as well.

[Lady Calypso]

42 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh, and Sam's heart is worth a cool half-mil. (I thought for a moment Sera was back, LOL)

I guess I read it as it being one of the Winchesters, so of course his heart was going to be high up in the bids. Just like if it was Dean's, his amount would be just as high. I mean, they're infamous for the work that they do in the monster world, so they've both made more than a few enemies along the way. However, yeah, I think monsters would have bid much higher for a completely in tact Sam or Dean Winchester. 

I agree that I was taken aback by Sam's depression. I think it's because it feels so unlike him to just give up and not want to help save people. I do think a second watch is warranted with this particular subplot, because I did come off of it as feeling a little off about the way it was handled. I guess, after 13 seasons now, I thought Sam's breakdown and depression would have happened much earlier. On the other hand, it was nice to see a role reversal, and it gave Jared something different to tackle (and also Jensen, who had to take on Sam's usual role in a way). 

I guess it makes sense for Sam to have depression now, but I wish they had sprinkled it throughout the series not just in odd episodes from time to time, so it didn't feel completely out of left field that it's happening now. I think they needed to approach the subplot differently; however, maybe if I watch a second time, I'll form a different opinion. I'd also like for it to continue this season, if this is the case, and them not wrapping up Sam's meltdown in an episode or two. 

I should have pegged FBI Agent earlier, but he didn't really make a mark on me with his scenes. He was just kind of there. I was much more interested in Donna and Doug, to be honest. 

It was a good episode, but I think I do have to rewatch at some point this weekend. 

[bozodegama]

I wasn't totally psyched about the episode but I did like that Donna toned down her accent and acted appropriately and cool.  Personally, I think she could do better than new Doug although he seems like a good guy.  Maybe if he shaved that moustache.  I thought Sam's depression was either over his mom or losing Kaia.  Otherwise, it didn't make sense.  And we've heard that same speech from him a few too many times.  I usually completely relate to Dean but I related to the way Sam dealt with his depression, by sleeping too much and laying in bed.  If that were Dean being depressed, He would've drank way too much whiskey.  The biggest thing that I heard was the bad guy saying that there were many more monsters than we thought, that we had to had a zero or two.  That's a lot of monsters.  I don't know if that was hyperbole or if the show was trying to tell us something?  Also, there was kind of a weird, non human looking monster that i've never seen before.  They do seem to be slightly tweaking old scripts as this reminded a little of the Doc Benton thing (although that episode was way cooler).  Is that a siren in the next episode?  I hate sirens.  Sirens and ghouls are the only monsters that scare me and gross me out.  

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I should have pegged FBI Agent earlier, but he didn't really make a mark on me with his scenes. He was just kind of there. I was much more interested in Donna and Doug, to be honest. 

I only pegged him because of how quickly he changed his tune and not only allowed Sam and Dean on his investigation, but asked them to be a part of it without checking them out after he had been all territorial at first. And, then there was the fact that he didn't have a partner... .

But, I think they played it well. I wondered, but wasn't sure right up until the moment he showed up at the warehouse. 

[Commando Cody]

This episode was dark. In the history of watching this show, I have found that the creepiest episodes are when the monsters are just people. 

I really liked Doug. I thought maybe his leaving was plot point for Donna to realize she didn't need to live in Stillwater anymore. Which is too bad. I can see Doug as a sort of kinder, gentler "Uncle Charlie" type figure. (From the TV show "My Three Sons" - for those of you who didn't grow up with classic TV). Since they brought Doug back in the first place, I don't know if you can count him out totally, just yet. He does know that monsters are real now. Maybe if his character gets enough positive feedback from the fans, the writers will bring him around again. 

[Morrigan2575]

I really loved this episode. Donna and Jody are 2 of my favorite supporting characters and it was great to see Donna shine. Still pissed I didn't get a Donna/Dean hug (I like them). I also thought Donna looked really pretty in this episode, her hair/makeup was on point. 

When Doug got infected I said only 2 ways this goes, Donna is forced to kill Vampire Doug setting her up for WS OR Doug dunks Donna because he wants no part of being a Hunter (less positive thought, Doug dumps Donna for "lying"). I was glad they went with option 2. Doug is a good guy, he just didn't want that life and it's fair.

[Pondlass1]

I agree with Sam's depression coming out of left field.  But so much of Sam's dynamic is a mystery to me, so I don't always 'get' him.  

Dean has bounced back obviously.  He was condemning himself for not have faith that Mother was alive while Sam still believed.  But now they have proof she's alive Dean's got the churning in his blood to get out there and do some damn hunting and saving.  If he's not gonna drink in his room, he gonna get out there gun in hand.

Sam?  I don't know what's going on with him?  Maybe his period?  I mean, I know it's been discussed to death - but he abandoned his brother and Kevin and we never really knew why; now he's all mopey and nieces can be chopped  into pieces for all he cares. 

He's an enigma.  And at least complex and interesting and not paint by numbers like most other characters on network TV.

I don't want apple pie, tied up with a pink bow stuff.  Humans are unpredictable.  Sam has a right to be depressed, even if we don't exactly know why this time.

[Katy M]

25 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I guess I read it as it being one of the Winchesters, so of course his heart was going to be high up in the bids. Just like if it was Dean's, his amount would be just as high. I mean, they're infamous for the work that they do in the monster world, so they've both made more than a few enemies along the way. However, yeah, I think monsters would have bid much higher for a completely in tact Sam or Dean Winchester. 

Oh, I've no doubt that Dean's would have gone for just as much. Still just questioning where monsters would come up with that kind of dough for one meal, or why their body parts would be so special.  He probably could have just charged to watch a torture session and made more money because more could have gotten in on it and I see them as more special in terms of payback then their actual nutritional content.

 

13 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

And, then there was the fact that he didn't have a partner... .

I knew he was the bad guy from the jump, but I don't think him not having a partner was a red flag. 

[Pondlass1]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Doug is a good guy, he just didn't want that life and it's fair.

Doug will be back I think.  A WS episode will have Donna and the girls saving him.  I also think this will happen with Father James too.

Personally I wouldn't sleep at night if I had positive proof horrid creepy monsters were real.

Also a bit weird that monsters have or even need - huge amounts of cash?  What kind of interest is offered at Monster Banks?  

Edited January 26, 2018 by Pondlass1

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I knew he was the bad guy from the jump, but I don't think him not having a partner was a red flag. 

It's been my observation that, on TV, the crazies don't have partners. 

[catrox14]

I don't know whether I liked the episode or not. I didn't hate it, but it was kind of all over the place especially Sam.

It was way too Saw/Hostel torture porn for me without all the really creepy stuff like the Benders which was more horror than torture porn IMO.

IMO, Sam should have been captured earlier and made it a dilemma for Dean to help Donna or look for Sam. Or find some way for them both to help look for both of them. Oh well.

I totally called the FBI agent being the bad guy. They really should have made him a long lost Styne and then I could understand him doing it. They could have had him never give the parts harvested to the bidders but instead kill them and keep the money and would tie back to the Stynes power. I'm sure there must be one or more Stynes somewhere. Oh well.

Sam's heart is suddenly all super special? Why? (I could make a comment about Dean's heart metaphor being given to Sam but eh, I'll let that go for now.)

And I guess Sam is now a super hacker but he can't super hack in less than an hour?  I legit laughed out loud at that and not because it was meant to be funny. It was ridiculous.  I mean at this point I thought he and Dean could hack ck government sites but neither would be able to hack the dark web even in 8 hours.  But okay Davy. You're cool. You know what Tor is. RME

Sam's emotional and mental 180 doesn't make a damn bit of sense. This was not well plotted nor seeded.

Why would Kaia's death be so upsetting to him? Does he feel guilty for trying to get Jack's help in the first place leading Jack to do what he did leading to Kaia's death? If so, fine. Otherwise it's just Sam repeating Dean's character beats of "Everyone dies around us" with no set up.  Also, if Sam was so worried about Kaia why didn't he go back and pick her up and bring her back through the Rift? He's a big strong fella who could have picked up that petite young woman.  Where is this headed?  I hope maybe Sam is finally feeling Eileen's death and he's projecting that loss onto Kaia, cause it seemed to me he never really mourned her properly and he was clearly smitten with Eileen. I'll understand Sam's loss of hope here if they tie it to Eileen's death.

Why did Dean say "Don't worry. We'll find him" wrt to Jack. Don't they have a reasonable notion that he's in AW? Didn't Kaia tell someone they were in the AW? Was it just clunky writing when what was really meant was "Don't worry Sam. We'll find a way into AW"?

Dabb/Perez you can't just flip around character beats between the brothers and expect them to work. You have to lay out why Sam is suddenly all "We can't save Mom or Cas or JacK'. Why was Cas mentioned at that moment because as far as the boys know, Cas is alive and well and out looking for Jack.  Does Sam know something about Cas but he's not telling? Cas needed to be name dropped obviously, but doing it at that point makes little sense. Or it's really terribly written foreshadowing. Weird writing on that.

I love Donna. I love how Briana plays her. I loved most of the writing for her here. I was less than thrilled and pretty pissed that she talked down to Dean "You! ...Get the blood"...leading to "AND YOU" to the vampire so she could threaten him. She could have shouted " Dean,  get the blood" or just "Get the blood!". It's not as if he WASN'T going to get the blood and had to be reminded to do it or some other nonsense, especially since he was the only one who knew about the cure in that situation.

I could better understand if somehow she was all 'OMG Dean was a vampire and that creeps me out so I no longer see him the same', but that reveal happened in the car, which was AFTER Dean made  the antidote. It was either poor writing to give Donna an angry "HEAR ME ROAR" moment which unintentionally reduced Dean to being a nameless equivalent to a monster. Unfortunately, I don't think it was unintentional.

All that said, I loved Dean and Donna's rapport. I loved Dean being a badass. Sam's attitude about helping Donna was weird but then he was a dick to her in Plush about Doug 2.0. He was a dick by acting like it was putting them out to help Donna. Does he even like Donna?

To end on a positive note, the boys and Donna looked amazing.

[Jediknight]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sam's heart is suddenly all super special? Why? (I could make a comment about Dean's heart metaphor being given to Sam but eh, I'll let that go for now.)

It's because he's a Winchester.  Demons want to eat every part of Sam and Dean.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

e (and also Jensen, who had to take on Sam's usual role in a way). 

This isn't new for Dean. He's always checked in with Sam's emotional state, offered him support and taken care of him. ***This is only a shift for this season because Dean was so bereft after Cas' death that he couldn't help him until now. But it's completely in character for Dean going all the way back to s1 and every season in between.

11 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

It's because he's a Winchester.  Demons want to eat every part of Sam and Dean.

Huh? I don't understand what you mean.

*** Non demon Dean that is. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by catrox14

[Jediknight]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Huh? I don't understand what you mean.

Sam and Dean are famous, demons will pay out their wazoos (wherever they happen to be located) for a chance to get some revenge, and eat a part of one of the brothers.  The heart, since there's only one, and it's important, oh my goodness, that might as well be a Monet.

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Why was Cas mentioned at that moment because as far as the boys know, Cas is alive and well and out looking for Jack. 

quoting myself

Also, why the fuck aren't they guys being shown to be frantically trying to find Cas at this point given they know Jack went missing? COME ON SHOW. This is stupid writing.

2 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Sam and Dean are famous, demons will pay out their wazoos (wherever they happen to be located) for a chance to get some revenge, and eat a part of one of the brothers.  The heart, since there's only one, and it's important, oh my goodness, that might as well be a Monet.

Wait, that was a demon?  I thought it was random monsters bidding on the parts. I'm not being sarcastic. I think I missed a plot point here. Help?

[Jediknight]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Wait, that was a demon?  I thought it was random monsters bidding on the parts. I'm not being sarcastic. I think I missed a plot point here. Help?

Demon (not Finn Balor), monster, same difference.  They all want the Winchesters dead.

[bozodegama]

40 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Doug will be back I think.  A WS episode will have Donna and the girls saving him.  I also think this will happen with Father James too.

Personally I wouldn't sleep at night if I had positive proof horrid creepy monsters were real.

Also a bit weird that monsters have or even need - huge amounts of cash?  What kind of interest is offered at Monster Banks?  

I think they have to do a foreign exchange,  cash for Dwarven gold, so they can buy evil stuff at the next god of greed (Plutus) auction.  Nothing like three quarters of a virgin dripping out of a paper bag for those guys.  

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Demon (not Finn Balor), monster, same difference.  They all want the Winchesters dead.

Oh I guess I see them as being quite different. Anyway thanks for answering.

[Bobcatkitten]

I would think the Winchesters are a hot topic in the entire realm of evil - monsters and demons alike. 

[Commando Cody]

I don't really buy the plot of this one. Monsters bidding on body parts? I could see it if there was someone special - like Sam Winchester - but an ordinary human? especially a skinny girl like Donna's niece. She would be like the diet plate. Do the monsters have that much expendable income? The Leviathan had the right idea. Mass produce the humans - like cattle, weed out the thin people. The Leviathan were Mon-ster-santo. Pretty much the only monster rich enough to bid on body parts to eat regularly would have been Dick Roman. Obviously, he didn't need to do that, 

[sigmaforce86]

Doug is the Dewey Riley of the Supernatural universe.

I figured they might be using Doug knowing and breaking up with Donna as a plot device that makes her want to hunt more often so she moves closer to Jody and the girls and can be a regular on Wayward Sisters since right now she's in Minnesota and Jody is in South Dakota.

"Bring it twilight" may be a corny, obvious joke but it was also perfectly done.  I did have to look up the guy who played Marlon because for awhile I thought it was Adam Scott doing a guest shot, if he ever needs a brother or cousin on Ghosted they could cast Steven Yaffe, there's a pretty good resemblance there.

I think Sam's heart brought the high bids because it's a guaranteed kill unlike a foot or arm so whoever got it also had bragging rights, they ate the body part that eliminated a Winchester and maybe in the monster world it's also delicacy.  I did fall for the misdirects on this one though - I didn't see the monsters inclusion at all, I thought it was going to be all about the crazy humans the occasionally meet like The Benders.

[Pondlass1]

16 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

I don't really buy the plot of this one. Monsters bidding on body parts?

It did seem a bit silly since they could probably go out and get their own body parts.  But I'm assuming it was the thrill of seeing them hacked to pieces on the TV screen.  People can have sex, but they still enjoy watching Porn.

[catrox14]

28 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

I would think the Winchesters are a hot topic in the entire realm of evil - monsters and demons alike. 

Oh they are for sure. I'm not suggesting otherwise. I was more talking about this specific episode and that I was confused about the demon comments because it seemed to me it was just monsters in this case not specifically demons, bidding on body parts. That said, it's an obvious metaphor to me that Sam's heart being bid on instead of Sam's brain for instance. Like his heart could be eaten but until he's brain dead he's not dead, if his death was the point, which I don't think it was. I'm sure if the agent had kept the bidding going it would have turned into 'Sam's heart is priceless". 

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

I don't really buy the plot of this one. Monsters bidding on body parts? I could see it if there was someone special - like Sam Winchester - but an ordinary human? especially a skinny girl like Donna's niece. She would be like the diet plate. Do the monsters have that much expendable income? The Leviathan had the right idea. Mass produce the humans - like cattle, weed out the thin people. The Leviathan were Mon-ster-santo. Pretty much the only monster rich enough to bid on body parts to eat regularly would have been Dick Roman. Obviously, he didn't need to do that, 

I don't really, either. First of all, I think it would be of limited use, even for monsters.  Vampires, sure.  PUreblood werewolves (which all werewolves seem to be nowadays), sure.  But, vengeful spirits.  Nope.  Crocattas.  Nope, they're selling off individual body parts and I don't think that guy has the skill to get a crocatta a soul.  Whatever Amy is?  yep.  She'd just want the brain.  Wendigos?  I'm going with no because the one we saw seemed primitive. I don't think he'd be using a computer.  Rakshasa? Maybe.  And, then, out of all those monsters, I'm sure some LIKE the hunt and kill.  Plus don't have the money for a $300 arm. And, I doubt monsters are the most trusting lot. How did this even get set up?

 

Have I put too much thought into this? Probably, because I did enjoy the episode, so I should try not to overthink it.

[Bergamot]

Sam's "being in a dark place" feels like a storyline that just got assigned to him. Like the writers had a post-it with the words "dark place" written on it and randomly stuck it next to the character's name. Not as interesting as having a storyline that develops and is organic to a character, but then, unfortunately that's the level of writing we tend to get now with the show.

I guess what will happen now is that Sam will get a "win" -- something to do with Jack or his mother -- and the writers will then pull off the post-it note and we will move on from it. Fair enough -- that's basically what the show did with Dean. It does seem odd and lacking in creativity to repeat with Sam something they just did on the show.

As far as Doug is concerned, I think that they should give the poor guy a little time to decide if he wants to be a hunter or not. After all, he just now found out that monsters exist, and then he immediately became a vampire -- that's a lot to process!

Also, I don't understand why the fact that he says he doesn't want to be a hunter IN ITSELF has to end his and Donna's relationship. He loves her, and he made clear that he admires and respects her, even after learning she had been keeping secret from him the whole truth about monsters thing. Unless she leaves the police force, he is still going to be working with her, so it isn't as if he will be able to stay completely away from her and thus be completely safe. Why can't they be a couple with her still being a part-time hunter? Or isn't Donna allowed to be a hunter if her significant other isn't one?

It came across to me as kind of sexist. If the roles had been reversed, I can’t imagine a woman saying to a man, “Well, I don’t want to be a hunter the same way that you are, so I guess we can’t be together.”

But even though there were some aspects of it that I didn't like, on the whole I enjoyed the episode, and I thought Donna was well-written and acted as a character. 

[catrox14]

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't really, either. First of all, I think it would be of limited use, even for monsters.  Vampires, sure.  PUreblood werewolves (which all werewolves seem to be nowadays), sure.  But, vengeful spirits.  Nope.  Crocattas.  Nope, they're selling off individual body parts and I don't think that guy has the skill to get a crocatta a soul.  Whatever Amy is?  yep.  She'd just want the brain.  Wendigos?  I'm going with no because the one we saw seemed primitive. I don't think he'd be using a computer.  Rakshasa? Maybe.  And, then, out of all those monsters, I'm sure some LIKE the hunt and kill.  Plus don't have the money for a $300 arm. And, I doubt monsters are the most trusting lot. How did this even get set up?

 

Have I put too much thought into this? Probably, because I did enjoy the episode, so I should try not to overthink it.

The Stynes could make use of body parts. That's why I kept thinking the FBI guy would be revealed to be a Styne. They might even be willing to let the monsters eat some parts just to keep them bidding. So it was really stupid in the end. LOL

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Bergamot said:

Also, I don't understand why the fact that he says he doesn't want to be a hunter IN ITSELF has to end his and Donna's relationship. He loves her, and he made clear that he admires and respects her, even after learning she had been keeping secret from him the whole truth about monsters thing. Unless she leaves the police force, he is still going to be working with her, so it isn't as if he will be able to stay completely away from her and thus be completely safe. Why can't they be a couple with her still being a part-time hunter? Or isn't Donna allowed to be a hunter if her significant other isn't one?

Maybe he read the Supernatural books, put 2 and 2 together and was afraid Donna would be the female equivalent of Sam with all her boyfriends dying?

[catrox14]

Okay embedding a tweet didn't work LOL

Edited January 26, 2018 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

And I guess Sam is now a super hacker but he can't super hack in less than an hour?  I legit laughed out loud at that and not because it was meant to be funny. It was ridiculous.  I mean at this point I thought he and Dean could hack ck government sites but neither would be able to hack the dark web even in 8 hours.  But okay Davy. You're cool. You know what Tor is. RME

Sam's emotional and mental 180 doesn't make a damn bit of sense. This was not well plotted nor seeded.

I agree. Unfortunately for me, I'm seeing shades of season 8 again here. Because not only were there the things you mentioned above, but Sam seemingly didn't want to really help Donna, he pretty much botched the case, and he got Samnapped. (Though that last one is a Sam character, it hadn't been one as much lately.) So in my opinion, they pretty much took most of Sam's good characteristics and threw them out the window on this episode.

I didn't even like Sam in this episode, and he's supposed to be my favorite character.

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Didn't you find it a little odd though, that he was all sad and 'everybody around us dies' about Kaia, but he was seemingly okay to walk away from Donna and her niece because it wasn't their kind of thing? I am not the biggest Sam fan in the world, but even I was saying wtf over that. It was so out of character for him that showing him having trouble sleeping and turning down pancakes just wasn't enough for me to believe it.

Thank you... looking at all of the twitter comments last night - because I wanted to see what others thought - I thought maybe I was missing something with all the praise for the episode. Because yes, I found it odd, and unfortunately after season 8 - which I didn't believe his character 180 then either - I don't much expect it to be explored in any depth. I mean yes, Sam has had some setbacks, but this is the guy who found the silver lining in having a crazy Lucifer-hallucination in his head along with a bunch of hell memories, and now he loses his hope?

Gotta go - more later...

[OrigamiNightmare]

If I remember right, wasn't Doug originally a huge dick to Donna? I seem to remember him putting her down about her weight and eventually didn't Jodie tell him off? I was confused about the character suddenly being a nice guy who was still close friends with Donna.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Sam has had some setbacks, but this is the guy who found the silver lining in having a crazy Lucifer-hallucination in his head along with a bunch of hell memories, and now he loses his hope?

I really hope it's something crazy like going through the rift does something to a person or that maybe there are alternate versions of everyone and they have been replaced by doppelgangers. I'm sure that will 100% NOT be the case but here we are LOL

Just now, OrigamiNightmare said:

If I remember right, wasn't Doug originally a huge dick to Donna? I seem to remember him putting her down about her weight and eventually didn't Jodie tell him off? I was confused about the character suddenly being a nice guy who was still close friends with Donna.

No that was Doug 1.0. In Plush Doug 2.0 came along. That's why I've been calling him Doug 2.0. Two different guys, same name.

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

If I remember right, wasn't Doug originally a huge dick to Donna? I seem to remember him putting her down about her weight and eventually didn't Jodie tell him off? I was confused about the character suddenly being a nice guy who was still close friends with Donna.

That was a different Doug who Donna was once married to. This Doug isn't a dick and was first introduced in Plush.

Edited January 26, 2018 by DittyDotDot