Shanna Marie December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 Simply because Lance in Sb could have immediately told the Nevengers that Arthur was shady. As Charms hadn't bonded with Arthur in Storybrooke, and had no memories from Camelot, both he and Snow would've believed Lance right away. They needed the drama to play out in Sb. And then it all pretty much amounted to nothing anyway. But that seems to have been the idea. Thinking about it further, I suspect the real issue was that Lancelot in Storybrooke would have revealed to the audience that Arthur was shady from the start, so they would have lost the Surprise!Twist! of that revelation later in Camelot. So it wasn't so much about David and company not learning it in Storybrooke, since that made no difference -- and even learning that Arthur had lied about the mushroom didn't make them rethink what Arthur had told them about Emma's grand plan to snuff out all light magic -- but about us not learning it until they were ready to reveal it in Camelot. David would have looked like even more of a chump if we already knew Arthur was shady while they were having their bromance bonding adventure, and since that was in flashback, we wouldn't even have had the "audience superior" brand of suspense of "no! don't trust him! You're putting yourself in danger!" since we knew he'd already come out okay. And I guess that's the real reason that Emma erased all memories from the moment of entering Camelot rather than just stopping before Hook's death. There's no real character reason for her to have done that. They just needed that in order to maintain the surprise twists. Ditto with Merlin not warning them about Excalibur and the Paper Cut of Doom -- we'd have lost the dramatic moment when a seemingly okay and healed Hook collapsed. 1 Link to comment
Amerilla December 8, 2015 Share December 8, 2015 That's why I don't really get the way they handled his death. They could have done it in a lot of ways that would have suggested that he wasn't dead-dead and therefore a somewhat living person was trapped in the Underworld where he couldn't survive for long and therefore needed to be rescued. He could have also been sucked into the sword. He could have been sucked into the lake portal. He could have vanished so there was no body. They could have used Merida's Hotline to the Afterlife Ale to find out where he was. But they went with the very mundane, real-world detail of showing his body on a gurney with his face being covered by a sheet. Replying in the Morality thread 1 Link to comment
Camera One December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 Did Merlin ask what happened to his Apprentice? Did Merlin talk to Henry about his new role as Author, to maybe... uh, define what the job actually is? Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 9, 2015 Share December 9, 2015 Did Merlin ask what happened to his Apprentice? Did Merlin talk to Henry about his new role as Author, to maybe... uh, define what the job actually is? Pretty sure Merlin cares about addressing important matters as much as Blue or Glinda. 4 Link to comment
Shanna Marie December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Did Merlin talk to Henry about his new role as Author, to maybe... uh, define what the job actually is? Did they even have a scene together? Henry was able to use the mushroom phone because as Author he was "chosen" by Merlin, but I don't recall them even speaking, let alone Merlin recognizing him as Author or discussing the job. Which Henry is failing at. Supposedly, his job is to record the stories, but he was on the front row to watch a brand-new fairytale, that of the Dark Swan Princess, playing out around him, and we never saw him write a single word. No sitting in a booth at Granny's with a notebook and taking notes, not even being at work recording everything that happened in the aftermath when Emma came to them (and according to cut parts of the script, he said he needed to go because he was the Author). Yo, kid, Violet's father didn't disapprove of you because you're a writer rather than a hero. He disapproved because you're the kind of pretentious twit who calls himself a "writer" because he owns a pen and hangs out at Starbucks. 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Which Henry is failing at. Supposedly, his job is to record the stories, but he was on the front row to watch a brand-new fairytale, that of the Dark Swan Princess, playing out around him, and we never saw him write a single word. Maybe he took a few tips from Regina. You don't actually have to do the job - you just have to call yourself what you want to be. "Hero", "Author", whatever impresses others. Then they'll treat you like it. 2 Link to comment
kili December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Which Henry is failing at. Supposedly, his job is to record the stories, but he was on the front row to watch a brand-new fairytale, that of the Dark Swan Princess, playing out around him, and we never saw him write a single word. No sitting in a booth at Granny's with a notebook and taking notes He's 12 - he's not going to use a notebook. In a deleted scene (speculation), Merlin gave him a magical iPhone that Henry uses to tweet out all the stories. Sometimes he records vines. Magic is clearly the only explanation to explain a charged smart phone for six weeks with no access to power. This also helpfully explains why Henry had "Harold and Maude" on his phone. That is just the kind of idiotic thing Merlin would preload onto a phone intended for a 12 year old - idiotic is the way Merlin roles. 3 Link to comment
Shanna Marie December 10, 2015 Share December 10, 2015 Magic is clearly the only explanation to explain a charged smart phone for six weeks with no access to power. Granny mentioned a generator. So maybe he had enough to keep it charged. He's 12 (or haven't they said he's now 13?), so that would be a priority, even over lights. As for Merlin, ever since someone pointed out that Elliot Knight played Sinbad in that short-lived BBC show, I can't unsee it, and Sinbad was, let's face it, pretty gormless. His reaction to just about everything was a slackjawed "huh?" expression. So now, even though he played Merlin totally differently, I seem to be mentally mapping Sinbad's idiocy onto him, and it makes it all make so much more sense. Merlin's planning here is very much on the same level as Sinbad's planning ability. Link to comment
Writing Wrongs December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 Back to the town line thing: Whenever they show outside Storybrooke looking in, it shows just a road. So what happens if someone drives towards it. Will it be like what happened to Greg and they'll bust through or is it enchanted so no one will drive down it? It still doesn't explain how they get supplies and deliveries and stuff. Link to comment
Jul 68 December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 Back to the town line thing: Whenever they show outside Storybrooke looking in, it shows just a road. So what happens if someone drives towards it. Will it be like what happened to Greg and they'll bust through or is it enchanted so no one will drive down it? It still doesn't explain how they get supplies and deliveries and stuff. Thank you for bringing this up. It is a constant source of annoyance to me. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 Alright, it's not because the episode needed more drama, or blood, or whatever, but Emma just got done stabbing Hook with the sword, and he collapses against her, why isn't her very white sweater bloody? Link to comment
OnceUponAJen December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 Alright, it's not because the episode needed more drama, or blood, or whatever, but Emma just got done stabbing Hook with the sword, and he collapses against her, why isn't her very white sweater bloody? Magic? :) Link to comment
Shanna Marie December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 Alright, it's not because the episode needed more drama, or blood, or whatever, but Emma just got done stabbing Hook with the sword, and he collapses against her, why isn't her very white sweater bloody? I wonder if maybe that was a metaphysical rather than a physical wound, where the sword was supposedly pulling the darkness into him so that when he died he'd take it with him. The sword disintegrated, so maybe it wasn't a normal stab wound. At least, that's my handwave for it. Back to the town line thing: Whenever they show outside Storybrooke looking in, it shows just a road. So what happens if someone drives towards it. I've been thinking of it as the town being slightly out of phase, so you only see it if you've got the right magic. Otherwise, it's just an empty road. We saw that when Ingrid was standing in an empty road, then she read the scroll, and the town materialized around her. So without the magic, you'd just drive down the road and never know you were passing through a town. My question is: what do the Storybrookers see when that happens? Do they see someone just passing through, or is that car invisible to them? Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 My question is: what do the Storybrookers see when that happens? Do they see someone just passing through, or is that car invisible to them? That train from 4x15 still weirds me out. Trains don't stop in Storybrooke, so was that train from out of town? Would the Queen Team get run over if they hit it? Link to comment
YaddaYadda December 11, 2015 Share December 11, 2015 I wonder if maybe that was a metaphysical rather than a physical wound, where the sword was supposedly pulling the darkness into him so that when he died he'd take it with him. The sword disintegrated, so maybe it wasn't a normal stab wound. At least, that's my handwave for it. I'm sure the writers didn't think of metaphysics. The sword was bloodied when she stuck it in, and took it out. 2 Link to comment
Camera One December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 (edited) I'm sure the writers didn't think That pretty much is the answer to everything in this thread. Edited December 12, 2015 by Camera One 7 Link to comment
MaiLuna December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 I don't mind the lack of blood since Killian's sword injury wasn't even there at the end (he died from his neck wound). It wasn't a normal wound. What I don't get is how Emma got the darkness out of her. We didn't see it get sucked into the sword yet when she stabs Killian she's clean again. It could've been fixed with some CGI black goo coming out of her and it annoys me a lot. Link to comment
Camera One December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 What I want to know is... What criteria did Excalibur use to define Rumple as a "hero"? Who set the criteria for this? Does a hero not have to be a good person? They just need to be willing to risk their life to save someone they love? 1 Link to comment
Camera One December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 (edited) Were the other Dark Ones bugging Rumple to open up the portal to the Underworld and set them free before Season 5? Edited December 12, 2015 by Camera One Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 What I don't get is how Emma got the darkness out of her. We didn't see it get sucked into the sword yet when she stabs Killian she's clean again. It could've been fixed with some CGI black goo coming out of her and it annoys me a lot. Neither did we see the Darkness getting into Rumple. Also why didn't he disappear and reappear at the Vault? Why are the writers so irritatingly inconsistent even withing a single episode, let along an arc. Are they that lazy that they can't come up with logical explanations? They just throw out continuity and go with what seems to work for a given scene. They completely stopped giving a crap about continuity this season. 4 Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 (edited) So why exactly didn't Rumple free Merlin and crush his heart using Nimue to cast the curse? There's probably an explanation, but it's weird that freeing Merlin and casting the dark curse didn't look much harder than throwing some ingredients into a dry ice cauldron. Was it my imagination, or did you need the scroll to cast the Dark Curse? It might just be a recipe, but Regina ripped it in 3x11, thus ending it. Edited December 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts 1 Link to comment
KAOS Agent December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 So why exactly didn't Rumple free Merlin and crush his heart using Nimue to cast the curse? It seemed like Emma used both light and dark magic to free Merlin, so maybe only she could do it? Also Merlin's magic seemed to be stronger than Emma's as the Dark One. Hook/Nimue were only able to get his heart and crush it once Merlin was depowered, so I feel like there are explanations as to why Rumpel didn't do what Hook did (although I am vastly entertained that it took Hook less than 24 hours to cast a curse it took Rumpel hundreds of years to cast) 2 Link to comment
Camera One December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 I remember someone saying before 5A that they hadn't yet revealed anything about the origins and workings of the Dark One, so they will be able to create this from scratch in this half-season. Frankly, I'm more confused than ever about the Dark One Curse, the dagger, the sword, the Vault, Darkness, black goo, the Dark Ones, etc. 2 Link to comment
DigitalCount December 12, 2015 Share December 12, 2015 And of course, shouldn't Malcolm have come back with the Dark One army? Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 Gold tells Emma that he should have realized she could hear the Dagger calling because she is a former Dark One. But he ought to have known that already! He would have been hearing the Dagger calling to him ever since Dark Emma revived him out of his coma. Does this also mean that Rumple's new Dagger is the same as the old one? What happened when we saw Excalibur crumble away? Did it merely get transported to Gold's shop and reassemble as the Dagger? What happened to the Excalibur half? Trying to make sense of this Show is an exercise in futility, I know, but I need at least headcanon logic to make sense of it. And of course, shouldn't Malcolm have come back with the Dark One army? Why? He wasn't a Dark One. 3 Link to comment
Writing Wrongs December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 (edited) I've been re-watching some S4 episodes and am confused about this: Was the whole Marian/Zelena frozen and need to leave town thing fake? Because when they bring Zelena back she has no problem. And wow, that Lily storyline went nowhere Edited December 13, 2015 by Writing Wrongs Link to comment
Curio December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 There's a lot of stuff in Season 4 that went nowhere. We barely got any fallout from Emma about the Snow Queen and how it felt to get all those childhood memories back. Emma never talked about how it felt to lose her only healthy female friendship when Elsa left. Hook never got to have a legitimate conversation with Emma about how it felt to be controlled by Rumple or apologize for lying to Emma in 4A. (That was all basically summed up with "That was Gold, not you.") Absolutely no one got to call Regina out on the idiocy and incompetency of Operation Mongoose, and that's awful considering pretty much all of the terrible events from Season 4 could have been avoided if someone stopped Regina ahead of time and said, "This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. And the way you're attempting to get your happy ending is totally cheating. Stop it." And there wasn't any fallout to the Alternate Universe, either. Emma still couldn't say "I love you" when it mattered most, Regina never apologized to Snow for walking a day in her shoes and realizing how terrible she was to Snow as the Evil Queen, and the Author character was dropped like a hot potato. (He's apparently in jail somewhere? Or house arrest?) Will and Belle's breakup happened off screen (I guess their decision to start dating happened off screen, too), we never learned what happened to Ana, Lily's father storyline went nowhere, and we don't know what August is up to now that he's an adult again and apparently "friends" with Emma. Season 4 was such a mess. 3 Link to comment
DigitalCount December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 Why? He wasn't a Dark One. But isn't that how he was killed? DO dagger to the heart, going all the way through so it would kill Rumpel too? Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 Well summed up, Curio! Absolutely agree with you. But isn't that how he was killed? DO dagger to the heart, going all the way through so it would kill Rumpel too? It just was a magical weapon that aged Pan back to Malcolm and killed him. It didn't make him a DO. Link to comment
Camera One December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 we don't know what August is up to now that he's an adult again and apparently "friends" with Emma. Where was everyone's friends when they got back to Storybrooke? I don't think The Blue Fairy checked in once. Link to comment
DigitalCount December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 It just was a magical weapon that aged Pan back to Malcolm and killed him. It didn't make him a DO. Why would the dagger do that, and why did he need to kill himself in order to accomplish it? I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but it just seems odd that it would be possible to achieve this. Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 13, 2015 Share December 13, 2015 (edited) Why would the dagger do that, and why did he need to kill himself in order to accomplish it? I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but it just seems odd that it would be possible to achieve this. I think Rumple just ended up killing himself because he was practically hugging Peter to his chest when he stabbed him. It still bothers me that Pan didn't magic himself away from Rumple's hold. But anyway none if it was ever explained. So, we are free to think what we want. lol Was the whole Marian/Zelena frozen and need to leave town thing fake? Because when they bring Zelena back she has no problem. It's hard to know whether Marian/Zelena was cursed by Ingrid's Ice Cream or not. But afterwards, yeah, we are supposed to think Zelena faked succumbing to it. Zelena's master plan to separate Robin and Regina was apparently to go into the Land Without Magic with Robin and Roland. Edited December 13, 2015 by Rumsy4 Link to comment
Camera One December 24, 2015 Share December 24, 2015 (edited) Why didn't The Apprentice just tell them Merlin was trapped inside a tree in Camelot? It's not like it was a secret. Edited December 24, 2015 by Camera One Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 24, 2015 Share December 24, 2015 (edited) I don't think Zelena faked the first freeze spell. She would have used her time "frozen" in Regina's vault to make some mischief. Plus, there would have been a crypt sex comment later. She totally fabricated the second time though. Edited December 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
Camera One December 25, 2015 Share December 25, 2015 So do you feel Eddy's answer in the EW interview answers the question about what happened to Excalibur? KITSIS: I believe that is because when he stole the Dark power from everybody and put it into a new dagger, we’re seeing the effects of the merged, re-formed Excalibur reverting back into a dagger. Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 25, 2015 Share December 25, 2015 Nope. :-p Excalibur was never just the Dagger. So, I don't see how it could "revert" back into a Dagger. What happened to the other half? lol 1 Link to comment
Camera One December 25, 2015 Share December 25, 2015 (edited) I find it hilarious how he answers with "I believe that is because...". Uh, didn't you decide what happened? Edited December 25, 2015 by Camera One 3 Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 29, 2015 Share December 29, 2015 (edited) Except Emma wouldn't have come over. If Charming hadn't placed her in the wardrobe when he did she would have been killed. Regina even said killing a newborn just made her to do list. It's weird that Rumple told Regina about Emma. I can't think of why that was necessary. He told Snowing to get Emma to safety, which is the reason they were adamant about the wardrobe even when only Emma could go through. But they probably could have hidden her where Regina couldn't find her. Then once the curse came over, Regina couldn't kill her because it would break it. Honestly I think living in Storybrooke, even with Regina as Mother Gothel, would have been better than foster homes and stealing cars. Both options are far from ideal, but still. There are a lot of plot holes and stupidity when it comes to people who decided Emma's fate. August, Geppetto, Neal, the Apprentice, Merlin, Ingrid, Blue, Jiminy, etc. I really don't blame Snowing for the wardrobe, but I do take heaps of issue with the fetus lobotomy. That, however, is another discussion. Edited December 29, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
babyPhat279 December 29, 2015 Share December 29, 2015 I thought that every new Dark One had all the power of the previous dark ones by default. Is that wrong? That would mean that Rumple has whatever power he had before + Dark Emma + Dark Hook. But since the latter two didn't really bring much to the "dark" table, isn't he really just about as powerful as he was before? I'm not getting the dun-dun-DUN of him being the Dark One again. Link to comment
Faemonic December 29, 2015 Share December 29, 2015 The lack of medieval spelling conventions aside, Rumple's name is supposed to be spelled R-U-M-P-E-L-S-T-I-L-T-S-K-I-N. So, the dagger's been misspelled since the first season...and I think the Super Dark One dagger kept the misspelling. KITSIS: I believe that is because when he stole the Dark power from everybody and put it into a new dagger, we’re seeing the effects of the merged, re-formed Excalibur reverting back into a dagger. So, the way I understand this is...Rumpel, being a high-level Sorcerer in this realm, is also a 3D Printer. (Ingrid could create a duplicate mirror that was a total fake, and Regina could poof cakes and candy bars that kids probably shouldn't eat because I think they're really just made of magic buckyballs.) Rumpel made a duplicate Engagement Dagger to give his wife. Duplicate Dagger doesn't do anything. Then the real dagger reunites with Excalibur, and then Hook vacuums up all the Dark Ones in all the realms and history ever. We get a Hook-kebab. ...potion... And so, the power of all the Dark Ones then transfers to 3D Printed Dark One dagger replica. What I'm wondering is...as though it matters, but I suspect that it's really not going to...does the upgraded Dark One dagger come with new features? By "the effects of the merged, re-formed Excalibur reverting back into a dagger" does Kitsis mean that 1. This dagger doesn't control anyone anymore, 2. But it can still kill the Dark One if they're stabbed, and 3. Radiates a constant and annoying susurrus? I'm actually okay with Emma hearing the susurrus because she has magic, so perhaps it's been in the air all the time but it wasn't until she learned about it that she knew what to pay attention to. Sort of like the annoying person who tells you that there's a crackle in your ears every time you swallow your spit, or that your tongue is touching your teeth, or you're breathing right now. Then you start thinking about it, and I lost the game. they probably could have hidden her where Regina couldn't find her. Then once the curse came over, Regina couldn't kill her because it would break it. Would Emma have grown up, though? She would have been time-frozen as a newborn forever. From the Writers thread: I think a lot of the issue is that they aren't clear on what the curse itself really is and what really breaks it. There was the punching through the barriers to get to another world, creating Storybrooke, and physically transforming people into something that fits into the World Without Magic. That wasn't actually "broken" until mid season 3 when Regina undid the curse, erasing Storybrooke and returning everyone to their homes and their true forms and selves. When they've repeated the curse later, this was the part that actually happened, so that must be the core of the curse, and Emma had nothing to do with breaking it unless you consider that she influenced Regina into being the kind of person who would choose to undo the curse. Then there was the memory and identity part, where the victims didn't know who they really were and were made to think they were someone else. Apparently that's an optional add-on, like the memory rider Zelena and Emma added to later curses. (...) And then there was the time standing still part, which Emma broke by deciding to stay in town. That also seems to have been optional for the curse, since it hasn't happened with subsequent curses. Sounds good so far, but I suspect (and agree with the final sentence quoted below) that the core of the spell being physical transformation and imitation of Land Without Magic stuff is an out-of-world matter. Basically, the writers want it. In-world, I would have thought the Dark Curse ought to be made out of three parts: 1. the identity rewrite, 2. looped time, and, with so much fine print, 3. anti-magic magic in the land without magic that still has magic everywhere all the time. This was the part Emma broke with the True Love's Kiss with Henry, which actually makes no sense if you think about it -- why would a TLK between people who were both outside the curse break the spell? If they were going to go that route, it should have been a TLK between Emma and Snow, since the curse was centered around Snow. Wake her up, and it breaks the curse on everyone, like in the Sleeping Beauty story or the Beauty and the Beast story, where breaking the curse on the object of the curse saves everyone else. Basically, what it boils down to is that they wanted to have Storybrooke as part of the premise of the show, and they didn't really think beyond that in working out the specifics of how the curse worked, and they keep using the curse as a crutch for getting people where they need them to be without worrying about consistency. Maybe that was why they could break the spell, precisely because they had dodged it and were outside it. Link to comment
Rumsy4 December 29, 2015 Share December 29, 2015 Would Emma have grown up, though? She would have been time-frozen as a newborn forever. The savior clause might have allowed her age normally. After all, time started moving in Storybrooke as soon as Emma decided to stay. Link to comment
KingOfHearts December 29, 2015 Share December 29, 2015 The savior clause might have allowed her age normally. After all, time started moving in Storybrooke as soon as Emma decided to stay. Henry aged and Ingrid didn't. Neither of them were from the curse. That's weird. Link to comment
Camera One December 29, 2015 Share December 29, 2015 (edited) These are writers who decided egg shells could somehow prevent Ursula and Cruella from aging. Maybe that Scroll thing prevented Ingrid from aging too. All their explanations are just arbitrary, so anything goes. Edited December 29, 2015 by Camera One 1 Link to comment
jhlipton December 30, 2015 Share December 30, 2015 Either the writers messed this one up completely, which see: everything else, or the guy is a liar who lies. The two are not mutually exclusive. Is Gwen still sanded? Whatever happened to Violet -- you know, the girl who was so important to Henry that his tears of heartbreak when she friendzoned him were magically powerful and Henry didn't want to speak to Emma when he learned that Emma made her friendzone him? For someone so important to him, Henry managed to head off and leave her without so much as a word. Repunzel, and now Gwen and Violet -- left without a storyline.. I find it hilarious how he answers with "I believe that is because...". Uh, didn't you decide what happened? He doesn't even know his own plots. TSTW!!! Link to comment
Shanna Marie December 30, 2015 Share December 30, 2015 The lack of medieval spelling conventions aside, Rumple's name is supposed to be spelled R-U-M-P-E-L-S-T-I-L-T-S-K-I-N. So, the dagger's been misspelled since the first season...and I think the Super Dark One dagger kept the misspelling. I've just decided to go with the misspelling because he's no more the fairy tale Rumpelstiltskin than he is the fairy tale (or Disney movie) Beast. Rumpelstiltskin is his cousin, who also tried the spinning straw into gold scheme on some other miller's daughter and killed himself when she got his name right. When they did the spinning straw into gold with a miller's daughter episode and the name issue didn't even come up, they'd removed themselves from the main point of the original fairy tale. I haven't figured that out -- it seems tailor-made to Cora's personality (since the miller's daughter actually kind of cheated to get the name), and Rumple seemed more known as The Dark One than by his name. He hadn't really been established yet in that point in the timeline, so they could have said that he wasn't known by name up to that point. It's like doing the Snow White story and she never eats the apple, or Sleeping Beauty and she never goes to sleep. What I'm wondering is...as though it matters, but I suspect that it's really not going to...does the upgraded Dark One dagger come with new features? By "the effects of the merged, re-formed Excalibur reverting back into a dagger" does Kitsis mean that 1. This dagger doesn't control anyone anymore, 2. But it can still kill the Dark One if they're stabbed, and 3. Radiates a constant and annoying susurrus? I think the new dagger is an entirely new construct made from what used to be Excalibur. I suppose they have freedom to play with it to decide what its powers are. Presumably, Rumple was always aware of the dagger, and now that Emma has been the Dark One, she can sense it. When/if they revive Hook, I suppose he'll be able to, as well, which should pretty much kill any attempt to play fake dagger in the future. Hook won't just be guessing based on Rumple's behavior. He'll know for sure if a dagger is a fake. On the other hand, would Rumple have had to trick Belle into giving him the dagger from her hiding place in 4B if he were able to hear it? Unless the new dagger is incredibly dense, or unless conservation of mass doesn't apply, what happened to the rest of Excalibur? Did it reform into the Slightly Less Holy Grail? Another broken sword? I'll take analysis of the Curse(s) to the Magic, Spells, and Enchantments thread. Link to comment
Faemonic December 30, 2015 Share December 30, 2015 (edited) I think the new dagger is an entirely new construct made from what used to be Excalibur. I suppose they have freedom to play with it to decide what its powers are. Presumably, Rumple was always aware of the dagger, and now that Emma has been the Dark One, she can sense it. When/if they revive Hook, I suppose he'll be able to, as well, which should pretty much kill any attempt to play fake dagger in the future. Hook won't just be guessing based on Rumple's behavior. He'll know for sure if a dagger is a fake. On the other hand, would Rumple have had to trick Belle into giving him the dagger from her hiding place in 4B if he were able to hear it? Nyar, that's right, he could have just listened for where it was buried. Then again, the new Darth Jones could only hear Excalibur when Emma went away to scout their path (even though they can both teleport), and Un-Darked Emma could only hear it after she'd been resting after crying a long while. Consistency... Unless the new dagger is incredibly dense, or unless conservation of mass doesn't apply, what happened to the rest of Excalibur? Did it reform into the Slightly Less Holy Grail? Another broken sword? Excalibur did crumble after making the Hook-kebab. Maybe the substance of the Grail poofed itself like it made Merlin's friend go poof, but the corrupted magic of it went to the new and improved Darkest One Dagger. Edited December 30, 2015 by Faemonic Link to comment
KingOfHearts January 5, 2016 Share January 5, 2016 Some have mentioned the plot hole about Regina putting a preservation spell on Daniel's body before she learned magic. Perhaps either preserving bodies is commonplace in EF, or Regina stole a potion from Cora. Link to comment
KingOfHearts January 8, 2016 Share January 8, 2016 In 2x10, Pongo is able to escape through two doors - Archie's office and the door outside. Um... how? Link to comment
daxx January 8, 2016 Share January 8, 2016 We can probably assume Cora left the door open to his office. The other maybe he ran out when someone was leaving. Link to comment
KingOfHearts January 8, 2016 Share January 8, 2016 We can probably assume Cora left the door open to his office. The other maybe he ran out when someone was leaving. But we see Pongo come from across the street and no one is heading out... Link to comment
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