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S06.E10: Divided

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
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lemotomato
lemotomato

So Felicity has been pulling all-nighters for 3 weeks and and Oliver has been risking capture going out patrolling, all to look for Cayden James and BS. Meanwhile the newbies have been sulking and "un

apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I hate that Dinah and Curtis are more angry with Oliver - who had good reason to be suspicious of them - than they are at the guy who actually betrayed him. If your whole argument is about trust, you,

apinknightmare
apinknightmare

Same. When Oliver apologized and Curtis still acted aggrieved I was like OH NO YOU DO NOT.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

OTA is back and OTA is all that we need.

I didn't think it was possible for my hatred of the newbies to grow as much as it did in this episode. I was wrong. Send them to another city, to another Earth, just get rid of them. Their attitudes are pissing me off. Curtis is probably the worst out of them too with his whole "nope, don't like that we're not all on the same level, how dare you trust your wife and brother more than us" thing. 

While I'm glad Diggle can get back into the field, I don't like that Curtis helped even though it makes sense that he did. (That's where I am with my hatred of Curtis. I even hate it when he does things I know he should be the one doing.) 

Black Siren likes to kill. She wants to kill. That's pretty much all there is to her character, which is why it looks like her scenes with Lance in 609 are part of Cayden's plan. So, Thea, Lance, no, don't waste any time or energy trying to find any bit of good in her. (Mainly because I don't want either of them trapped in that kind of storyline when we barely get enough of either of them - especially Thea - as it is. I kinda wish there was surveillance of BS telling Thea she'd put her in a coma again because maybe they'd let this stupid idea go.) 

I might not totally hate Vigilante anymore after this episode? I feel like they did a decent job of setting him up as infiltrating Cayden James or at least making us think he has - his scenes with Dinah, him saying he wanted to talk elsewhere when she confronted him and Cayden's concerns about him. At least in a better way than any possible redemption arc for BS. 

Dragon is ... a thug. That's pretty much it. 

And again, I hate the newbies more than I did before, to a degree I didn't think was possible. 

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

Aw yeah, badass Diggle is back! I’m so freaking excited about that!

*deep breath*

When do we get to the part where I’m supposed to think Dinah, Rene, and Curtis are anything more than entitled asshats? Honestly, they can all go die in a fire. I’m done with them.

And gee, why would Cayden leak audio of Rene and not the other members of the team? Maybe because he knew Rene is a self-involved jackass who’s only loyal to himself and will roll over on anyone to protect himself? Curtis and Dinah had better watch their backs.

For as much as Curtis thinks he’s special because he’s been team-adjacent the longest, he doesn’t know Oliver at all. Asking if he had any hard feelings? Bitch, please. Oliver has worked with Malcolm Merlyn and Slade Wilson when it suited him. He’s the most “ends justify the means” guy ever. The fact that Curtis thinks he’s grudge-worthy in Oliver’s eyes is so laughable.

Dinah’s not even worth a discussion.

Speaking of things not worthy of discussion, I’m gonna need Quentin and Thea to stop being so gullible and stupid. Not!Laurel is Not.Laurel. Go talk to Oliver about Earth X Tommy. Jesus.

Finally, Dear Show: the case has been “moved back to the Star City DA”? Really? I said the other day in the Mind Your Surroundings thread that the Arrowverse shows need to hire a legal adviser and it’s so true. I volunteer, BTW. Just sayin’.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, KenyaJ said:

Speaking of things not worthy of discussion, I’m gonna need Quentin and Thea to stop being so gullible and stupid. Not!Laurel is Not.Laurel. Go talk to Oliver about Earth X Tommy. Jesus.

Or even talk to Oliver about Earth X Lance. And Earth X Oliver. "So, Quentin, let's chat about what our Earth-X versions were like. Then we can talk about Earth-2's Laurel." 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Apart from wishing the newbies dead, if they really want to redeem Evil Laurel, I wish they'd just approach it from Quentin just wanting his daughter back and wanting to reach out to and help the woman who looks like her. The whole line of thinking that he saw his Laurel in her eyes when she decided NOT to murder him - what a low-ass bar to clear. I'm disappointed that Thea went along with it too, invoking Malcolm. Girl, get better judgment!

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

5 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Oliver has had his asshole moments over the years but the new team makes him look like a saint.  I hope her rubs it in when hey inevitably get in over their heads and he has to bail them out.

I mentioned this in the live thread, but the scene where he acknowledged he was wrong to put them under surveillance (even though he wasn't) showed so much growth. I was so impressed, because I would have read NoTA for filth. Oliver is officially a better person than me now. How did this happen? LOL.

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catrox14

catrox14

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Yo. Team Noobs. Get out. Don't come back. Fuck off. You don't deserve OTA.

In my head this is what Oliver actually said:

fSmajPt.gif

And screw this redeeming Black Siren garbage. THEA. SHE IS NOT LAUREL. She is a different person. And I really wish they wouldn't put Quentin through this awful SL. It's cruel to him. STOP IT SHOW.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

1 minute ago, JJ928 said:

I do think they're setting up Siren to make everyone think she's being redeemed, only to have her turn on Lance towards the end of the season.

They really arent showing anything from BS that could even lead to it. At least with Vigilante they're showing some things that make you question which side of the line he'll end up on. With BS it's psycho killer who gets off on killing and having Lance and Thea who know nothing about what she's doing going on she's totally redeemable. 

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Lantern7

Lantern7

NTA = New Team Arrow = Curtis/Rene/Dinah? I'm sorry, guys, but I get their point of view. I also get Oliver's POV as well, which makes the split worse. If this had happened before Earth-X, the only way NTA would've fought is if there knew that the other Oliver was the leader. Then they'd try for catharsis. I'm not gonna hate NTA or whatever they'll dub themselves (if anything), and I'll be more concerned about how all of the bad guys are going to be taken down. Also, hoping that Quentin and Thea break their kindasorta father/daughter relationship by turning it into something more . ..  dubious.

Seriously, has Oliver faced a mob like this? A bunch of asshole enemies and their respective armies . . . doesn't seem fair. I know, that's the point, and that's nowhere near as bad as what's going on in The Flash ("Hey, can we borrow Vibe or Kille- . .. wait, what do you mean your hands are tied?") , but even with casualities on his side, Oliver will probably win, and that mean a less-believable story. For a superhero-based drama, I mean.

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
16 minutes ago, RandomWatcher said:

Team Broken Arrow

I'm ok with NTA.  It can mean both New Team Arrow or Not Team Arrow if one likes.  

9 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

NTA = New Team Arrow = Curtis/Rene/Dinah? I'm sorry, guys, but I get their point of view. I also get Oliver's POV as well, which makes the split worse. If this had happened before Earth-X, the only way NTA would've fought is if there knew that the other Oliver was the leader. Then they'd try for catharsis. I'm not gonna hate NTA or whatever they'll dub themselves (if anything), and I'll be more concerned about how all of the bad guys are going to be taken down. Also, hoping that Quentin and Thea break their kindasorta father/daughter relationship by turning it into something more . ..  dubious.

Seriously, has Oliver faced a mob like this? A bunch of asshole enemies and their respective armies . . . doesn't seem fair. I know, that's the point, and that's nowhere near as bad as what's going on in The Flash ("Hey, can we borrow Vibe or Kille- . .. wait, what do you mean your hands are tied?") , but even with casualities on his side, Oliver will probably win, and that mean a less-believable story. For a superhero-based drama, I mean.

3

Sincere request, could you explain what you think makes NTA's PoV reasonable though?  Cause I am not getting it at all.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

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This is what I want to happen. Desperately:

Evil League of Evil: "Muahahah, you cannot defeat us Green Arrow! There are more of us than there are of you!" 

Oliver: "Hey, guys! Its your cue!" 

*Reveals literally every other superhero available ready and waiting to kick the asses of these not super powerful guys*

Oliver: "Raise your hand if you have super powers" *hands raise* "Now raise your hand if you have no compulsions about killing" *more hands go up* "So, you guys wanna do this?" 

Evil League of Evil: "...should we surrender here or at the police station?" 

 

*Several hours later* 

Newbies: "We have arrived to stop the villains...where did everyone go?" 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

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1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

*Reveals literally every other superhero available ready and waiting to kick the asses of these not super powerful guys*

 

Look...I hate them so much that I want even...I want even Barry to come in and save the day so they can stay gone. That should explain the depth of my hatred for these people that BARRY is a preferred option.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

So, uh, I missed the first 15 minutes of the episode but judging by that warehouse fight scene, this was directed by Bamford, wasn't it? Ugh. Why does he keep tormenting me with his spinny camera? Does he like twirling while lugging that camera around and pretending like he's in the fight, too, or something? Double ugh.

Why would anyone (not from Reddit) actually choose the newbies over OTA? What a bunch of dinks. My eyes got quite the workout from all the rolling it did whenever Rene (and Curtis, with his hypocritical ass) kept trying to make it seem like OTA were the ones who were really at fault for the lack of trust in the team. Who was it again that was going to testify and turn Oliver in to Samanda Watson, which could have led to ALL of them going to jail except for the turncoat?

gfDIzzb.gif

Nah. I'm not wasting my thoughts on them. Fast-forward material is what they are. I was getting fired up and mad at all the hypocrisy of their holier than thou attitude after Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle kept trying to extend an olive branch but nah.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

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(edited)

Ok, things I liked.  Literally every scene with Oliver, Diggle and Felicity.  I've missed hearing just the three of them talk.  I swear the show is smarter sounding when it is just the three of them.  Plus how cute was John bringing Felicity coffee and Felicity just slumped on the steps watching Oliver brood over his arrowheads.  And Oliver and Felicity had subtle moments but still had moments.  

Also loved how pissed Felicity seemed at the Newbs.  They are really such children.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

(edited)

Oliver: "OK, I admit that I screwed up.  I had the right intentions and y'all admittedly gave me good reasons to be suspicious, but fine, it was wrong to spy on you.  I apologize.  Sincerely.  Now, lets try and move on and deal with this clearly big threat and his amazingly stacked posse."

Stupid Noobs: "Fuck you, guys!  Who cares if our judgement was shit?  We can't trust you for what you did!  Never!!  Sure, maybe we've done things like betray you to a vengeful FBI lady and likely get you locked up, and even flirt around with someone we clearly is a known a psycho!  It's about trust, man!  We're out of here!  Peace!!!"

Seriously, this whole thing is dumb.  So dumb.  All I see is one side admitted that they did something wrong and trying to move forward, but the others not only holding a petty grudge, but not admitting they fucked up.  Yes, Rene admitted his guilt to Curtis, but I never once seen him legitimately say he is sorry for what he did to Oliver, and just offer half-hearted "I did what I had to do!" platitudes.  And don't even get me started on Dinah, and how she practically dodges every question about her thing with Vigilante.  Instead, they keep pointing their fingers at Original Team Arrow (OK, honestly, they're just Team Arrow to me.  The rest of these fools will never be worthy of them) for not taking responsibility, even though it feels like they have, but since they aren't groveling but calmly explaining why they did what they did, the Noob Squad is getting all pissy.  To which I say, Dinah?  Curtis?  Rene?  Kindly go fuck yourselves.  Seriously, they are worst then actual children.

At least Diggle is finally cured now, so hopefully he'll be a bigger asset to Oliver going forward.  Really could use some Original Arrow action now.

I do like how Cayden seems to be going through similar issues, where he's like the annoyed father trying to get things done, but has to put up with his kill happy daughter making messes, Baby Dragon always puffing out his chest, and his son consistently sneaking out to meet his girlfriend and blab out secrets.  At least Uncle Anatoly seems to have a level head.  But again, my general affection for Cayden will always be Michael Emerson.  He really can make everything better.  Still wish his henchman was played by Jim Caviezel though!

Holy shit, Thea is not only back, but she even reminds Quentin that he has another (and frankly, more awesome) daughter, so maybe moping about fake evil daughter is a bit much there!  Of course, she suddenly reverses that stance after.  Poor Thea.  She's never written as an actual character anymore, but just used to move the stupid plots forward.

More "classic" James Bamford fight scenes, with shaky camera work and dark lighting, but since it's all in one take, he'll be treated like he's a future John Wick director in the making.

Did like seeing Canadian actor vet Louis Ferreira as the Bertinelli crime lord.  Too bad he's already gone. 

Still, way better then The Flash's return, so points for that!!

Edited by thuganomics85
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Lantern7

Lantern7

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Sincere request, could you explain what you think makes their PoV reasonable though?  Cause I am not getting it at all.  

I'll try to articulate, since I've been having problems with that lately. Basically, I feel that both sides have done shady shit. I don't think that those actions cancel each other, and Rene turning on Oliver to get his kid back -- a girl whom he's finding it difficult to bond with -- is unjustified and irredeemable. Okay . . . I get the hate. I just don't get the "these people should get killed in humiliating ways" POV. I mean, everybody is fictional, but it seem feels like overkill. That's how I feel. Once again . . .  I hope that I've said my peace (piece?) in a comprehensible manner.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

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6 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

NTA = New Team Arrow = Curtis/Rene/Dinah? I'm sorry, guys, but I get their point of view. I also get Oliver's POV as well, which makes the split worse.

I could understand their POV in 609. But I will never understand why Oliver — who's facing the prospect of going to prison and being taken away from his son and his wife, thanks to Rene — can forgive them and move on for the sake of the city, but Rene, Curtis, and Dinah — who suffered no significant consequences as a result of being surveilled — can't rise above their hurt feelings to do the same. They're such children.

On the flip side, the very best part of this storyline is getting so much Diggle/Felicity interaction. This show is so much better when it honors that relationship.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

4 minutes ago, SleepDeprived said:

So, uh, I missed the first 15 minutes of the episode but judging by that warehouse fight scene, this was directed by Bamford, wasn't it? Ugh. Why does he keep tormenting me with his spinny camera? Does he like twirling while lugging that camera around and pretending like he's in the fight, too, or something? Double ugh.

Why would anyone (not from Reddit) actually choose the newbies over OTA? What a bunch of dinks. My eyes got quite the workout from all the rolling it did whenever Rene (and Curtis, with his hypocritical ass) kept trying to make it seem like OTA were the ones who were really at fault for the lack of trust in the team. Who was it again that was going to testify and turn Oliver in to Samanda Watson, which could have led to ALL of them going to jail except for the turncoat?

gfDIzzb.gif

Nah. I'm not wasting my thoughts on them. Fast-forward material is what they are. I was getting fired up and mad at all the hypocrisy of their holier than thou attitude after Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle kept trying to extend an olive branch but nah.

I think Bamford really was trying to film the fight as if it was a video game and the viewer the player so it was supposed to be what Oliver saw but instead it was just Oliver constantly falling out of the shaky camera frame.  It could have been such a good fight scene if I could have actually seen it.  

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

So, there were some good things here. I enjoyed  the bits of Olicity we got, and I was thrilled to get so much OTA interaction. I liked how pissed off Felicity got about the idiocy of the Newbies. The camera work was awful, but the fight scene was kind of cool. I liked seeing the Berlanti family again (even though I wish Helena would come back for an episode or two), and I liked how competent OTA was throughout. Even though it was kind of ruined later by Thea insisting that Black Siren could be redeemed, I always love Thea and Quentin interactions (especially when Quentin was all pissed about Oliver having to work with Rene, and Thea saying he was like a father to her), and, most of all, I love the character development it showed in Oliver. He has come such a long way from the angry, unstable loner he was in season one, and I am honestly super proud. He acted like a mature, intelligent adult, who took responsibility for what he did, and showed the ability to forgive and move on to focus on the greater good. It was great. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

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(edited)
18 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I'll try to articulate, since I've been having problems with that lately. Basically, I feel that both sides have done shady shit. I don't think that those actions cancel each other, and Rene turning on Oliver to get his kid back -- a girl whom he's finding it difficult to bond with -- is unjustified and irredeemable. Okay . . . I get the hate. I just don't get the "these people should get killed in humiliating ways" POV. I mean, everybody is fictional, but it seem feels like overkill. That's how I feel. Once again . . .  I hope that I've said my peace (piece?) in a comprehensible manner.

I agree, no need for any of them to die, but I'm at the go away stage because I can't imagine how the show will make me ever like any of them.  I agree both sides did less than perfect stuff but I can't help but think the level of mistakes isn't equal. It's like in Felicity's analogy when the child wails about breach of privacy when the parent finds out they've been breaking important rules (agreed upon to keep them safe) after a look at a diary (or the more modern version - reading their texts).  Or the boyfriend you find out is cheating who tries to turn it around on the girl for looking at his credit card reciepts. 

Though while what Dinah did might be equal to breaking curfew or not calling when she's going to miss a date (if we use the other analogy) what Rene did is more equivalent to making a deal with the FBI to cover his ass but send the rest of his family to prison. 

And Curtis feels like he's mad just because he wanted a reason to be mad.  He literally did the same thing to Felicity all on his own for less reason last year and yet he's made his moral outrage for something that the OTA did reach levels where they never deserve forgiveness for their actions.  And that's an attitude I find more unforgivable than what Rene and Dinah actually did do.    

Edited by BkWurm1
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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

10 minutes ago, EmilyBettFan said:

I was so prepared to like the fight because it was Oliver going at it alone like old times. But I saw Oliver kick a goon and miss and the goon still went down. They need better stunt coordinators. Bamford should stop directing. 

Come to think of it, wasn't this the big action scene MG was hyping shortly after the midseason finale? It could have been really great if anyone else had directed it.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And Curtis feels like he's mad just because he wanted a reason to be mad.  He literally did the same thing to Felicity all on his own for less reason last year and yet he's made his moral outrage for something that the OTA did reach levels where they never deserve forgiveness for their actions.  And that's an attitude I find more unforgivable than what Rene and Dinah actually did do.    

I feel the same way about Curtis. He has been acting bitter for awhile about how being on Team Arrow screwed up his marriage, especially during his bitter toast at Olicitys wedding reception, and I think he is just happy to have an "excuse" to be pissed off at OTA. He blames them, on some level, for ruining his marriage, even though that is 100% on him. No one forced him to be on the team, in fact he insisted on going into the field, even when Oliver said it wasn't a great idea. He just doesn't want to admit that, and instead wants to blame everyone else. 

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