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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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statsgirl

statsgirl

The mask is stupid but DR seems attached to it.

 

I just watched Legends of Today, the Flash portion of the cross-over, and I'm once again struck by how unpleasant a character Hawkman is.  He's not witty or kind or engaging, he's just someone who thinks he knows it better than everyone else.  Kendra seems like a nice person but she's pretty boring.

 

What were they thinking, using these characters to try to sell the spin-off?

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way2interested

way2interested

The mask is stupid but DR seems attached to it.

 

I just watched Legends of Today, the Flash portion of the cross-over, and I'm once again struck by how unpleasant a character Hawkman is.  He's not witty or kind or engaging, he's just someone who thinks he knows it better than everyone else.  Kendra seems like a nice person but she's pretty boring.

 

What were they thinking, using these characters to try to sell the spin-off?

I don't know, it seems to me that DR doesn't really like it that much either. I feel like he likes that idea that Diggle gets his own costume in a way that isn't a vibrant color like green or red, and the fact that logically Diggle needs some sort of secret identity since he has a family, but even he complained that the helmet is literally not practical when he's filming and he was the one who mentioned that the helmet was getting an upgrade as the season goes on, IIRC.

 

But, yeah, in terms of Legends of Today, not too won over by the Hawkpeople. What worked so well with the crossover last year was that it focused on the main characters and where they were in their own stories and just happened to crossover. The focus, relatively, remained on Barry or Oliver in both episodes, and the idea of them being together was the event, rather than having to create an event for the two shows (or three, counting LoT). Heck, Rainbow Raider was only a catalyst to make Oliver and Barry fight each other and Captain Boomerang was only a catalyst for Oliver to need Barry's two cents and to have a villain that literally needed all of them to stop him. The theme of those crossovers was teamwork, and the feeling of crossover appeal and teamwork was palpable both on and off screen from those two episodes.

 

For this crossover, the shows made the actual crossing over more of a spectacle to go with the plot they needed to make to get to point C, the LoT pilot. Like in 118 of the Flash with Ray and Felicity, crossing over was used as a selling point to buy into the plot or characters that the shows wanted to sell rather than using the crossover as the grand event that it really is. I get that they had to go bigger this time around, but in going bigger (which, I guess, this meaning that they made their Arrowverse bigger by introducing the more magical/time-traveling side), they lost the most effecting aspect of the crossover from last year, in my opinion. The problematic plots of the episodes are another story, but the entire feel of the crossovers felt off from last year. I did still like some aspects to this crossover (Barry and Oliver's relationship minus the "Ollie," the teams mingling this time including Thea, and actually the first like ten minutes of each episode), and those aspects were basically newer versions of some of the best parts from last year.

 

One of the worst parts is that the writers probably felt stuck in a way in somewhat introducing Kendra and Carter, considering the fact that they had to kind of write backwards with them. The LoT pilot was already filmed before this crossover, so they had to write these two characters in a completely different way than they were being established in their own show. If they even do have a banter or a fun relationship in LoT, the writers couldn't show it here because they had to focus on Kendra embracing her destiny instead. However, any hints that they may have given in 408 didn't excite me for their relationship either. Perhaps one of the ideas is that they already did have five of the characters well-established (six, if you count the new Firestorm who was established before this, which I don't really), so simply introducing them would be enough to carry onto the spin-off, but that doesn't explain why they would want the entire crossover to depend on them as an engaging plot point. 

 

At this point I would kind of hope that next year's crossover is for Oliver and Felicity's wedding because at least the reason for crossing over would remain with the actual characters of the show. Then again, I guess some of the LoT cast might stop by next year as well.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

http://deadline.com/2016/01/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-review-video-the-cw-wentworth-miller-victor-garber-1201680214/

 

"There are many opportunities there but, at least from what I’ve seen, it’s wasted with a visit to the way overused 1970s and too much time giving everyone screen time. While Prison Break alum Miller and Alias vet Garber (who played his Dr. Martin Stein character on Flash) are solid foundations for the show, it’s hard to get a handle on the other Legends between the seemingly endless set-up, battle scenes and one hell of a bar brawl. There’s Arrow’s White Canary, played by Caity Lotz; former Superman Brandon Routh as The Atom; Dominic Purcell as Heat Wave; Ciara Renée, who also appeared on several episodes of The Flash, as Hawkgirl; Falk Hentschel as Hawkman; and Franz Drameh as the other half of Firestorm. When CW boss Mark Pedowitz called Legends a mash-up of Marvel’s Guardians Of The Galaxy and Doctor Who at TCA, he wasn’t kidding – though it would do the WBTV-produced series a favor not to make its influences so obvious."

Edited by AyChihuahua
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

http://www.thewrap.com/cbs-president-teases-supergirl-the-flash-crossover/

 

Looks like that rumored Supergirl/Flash crossover might become a reality

New CBS president Glenn Geller raised the possibility of a crossover between his network’s “Supergirl” and the CW’s DC superhero drama “The Flash.

“I have to be really careful what I say here,” Geller said when asked by reporters during the Television Critics Association winter press tour. “Watch and wait and see what happens.”

 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

Well Supergirl is getting stronger and the Martian Manhunter add was fantastic, but I think fans of both shows would enjoy it.  As someone upthread mentioned - the tone is just right for those shows to crossover in a way that even Flash and Arrow can't pull off (someone always feels "wrong" when those shows try to mix).   So while I'm sure Supergirl would in fact get a boost from it - I think it could only help Flash as well.

 

Plus no matter what convoluted way they do it for me to excuse why the Supes have not even so much as been mentioned in the Flarrowverse at this point - I will still be very happy if they connect the shows in canon.

Edited by nksarmi
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Delphi

Delphi

At this point I would kind of hope that next year's crossover is for Oliver and Felicity's wedding because at least the reason for crossing over would remain with the actual characters of the show. Then again, I guess some of the LoT cast might stop by next year as well.

Okay, so I want to cosign this because it's made of win. And secondly if it happens I want a rehash of Oliver and Dinah's wedding in the comics complete with superhero Bachelorette and bachelor parties and the wedding getting crashed by random villains just because.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'm just happy The Flash killed Hannibal Bates, so Felicity won't have to marry him impersonating Oliver, and then kill him in their honeymoon, while real Oliver has been kidnapped by some weird people Wonder Woman knows.

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tarotx

tarotx

They could always have anyone there pretending to be Oliver. Plus Earth 2 versions. But having Oliver's face attack felicity and have her kill him just wouldn't play as well on tv. The visual would be too ick for most people. They'll probably have Oliver stand Felicity up at the wedding to close The Flash Just to find out he's been Kidnapped in time for a search and rescue on the Arrow part of the crossover. 

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Trini

Trini

(edited)

Wonder how they gonna handle the different shooting locations with Vancouver and LA.

 

I figure that if they actually do it, it won't be like the Flash/Arrow crossovers that have involved nearly the whole casts. Probably just one or two characters to either show.

Edited by Trini
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Wonder how they gonna handle the different shooting locations with Vancouver and LA.

I read some spec that made sense, keep it as an AU and just have Flash crossover through a portal, similar to E1/E2.  This way, you only have one character making an appearance on Supergirl.  If they wanted to have Supergirl crossover to Flash, you could have Cisco get a vibe off of Barry, where he sees Supergirl flying around or something.

 

It limits scheduling conflicts down to just Grant and Melissa and even limits filming to one location..assuming there's nothing preventing Flash from using scenes filmed for/by Supergirl production.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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kismet

kismet

Who ever thought that CBS would pull a character from The CW for a boast? 

Well, perhaps it works out better because The CW can come to CBS. It's making the smaller network come to the bigger network, even if they are using the smaller network's audience.

 

Like someone said above, I do think that it is going to be a minimal crossover, perhaps only 1 main character and maybe only one-way. And I think it will be Grant going to the Supergirl set. One because the FLASH as a character has a built in audience. Two GG has a built in fanbase. Three the FLASH has enough established characters that they could do a whole show GG-light and be a decent story if the shooting times don't mesh well, whereas Supergirl really needs MB in every show. Also I believe that it makes sense to use the FLASH, since it does have a bigger comic base than probably Green Arrow and even Supergirl. I'm not a comics reader, but even I had more of a pop-culture knowledge of who the Flash is, prior to the show - whereas I had no idea who Green Arrow was and only a brief knowledge that there was a Supergirl who might be related to Superman.

 

I do wonder if perhaps Zoom will come up on the radar of the Govt agency on Supergirl or even Facinelli's character's radar and that will lead them to reach out to the FLASH. Or more likely, similar to his first appearance on the ARROW. GG will go to National City for information on how to defeat Zoom.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

You know, they could conceivably have The Flash and GG on Supergirl and not have it be our Barry.  It can't be Earth two either since one of the Supes would have taken out Zoom, but Earth three would work, still Barry, possibly still Oliver and even similar history but add Flying Aliens.  More likely there will be no sign of anything Arrow, a shout out at most. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Is anyone else part of the WB survey community? I just filled out a survey about LoT (which included questions about Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl) and at the end was told that I was invited to participate in a "special project on LoT". I guess this means I have to watch it?

As an aside, one of the questions asked if I considered myself a fan of some characters. The list included all the LoT characters, plus Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, and... BC.

Edited by lemotomato
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

I think Viacom owns Mtv and CBS. Or well they used to but I don't keep up. I'll go google it :p

 

I guess not. I'm so behind. They split like a zillion years ago....

Edited by tarotx
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Well, I got my new TV Guide in the mail (with The X-Files cover), and it looks like January 19, 2016, is going to be a Marvel vs. DC showdown (and ABC vs. The CW)...

 

8:00 pm (EST):
ABC - Marvel's Captain America: 75 Heroic Years ("The history of Capt. America.")
The CW - The Flash

 

9:00 pm (EST):
ABC - Marvel's Agent Carter (two-hour S2 premiere)
The CW - DC's Legends of Tomorrow: Their Time is Now (primer) and DC Films Presents: Dawn of the Justice League (special)

 

ETA:  The above LoT special is a primer introducing all the characters, it is not the premiere.

Edited by tv echo
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Idk I have this really weird feeling that LoT isn't going to do very well ratings wise which is disheartening for me because I feel like the show is going to make me fall in love with Sara and Rip and maybe even Snart... 

 

I just haven't seen so much hype for that show as I did with the Flash... and with how expensive LoT is, that's not very promising. 

 

I hope the show does well for the sake of Sara's character. But some part of me feels like this isn't going to end well... 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I have no idea really what makes a show work ratings-wise, but I hope LoT does well.  I hate it when I love a show but not enough other people do - lol.  Is LoT on directly against Agent Carter?  That may or may not work, but then again, the show is on the CW and won't need as high of ratings as Agent Carter to be successful.  I guess ultimately the big question will be - is the show profitable.  And I think they have lots of ways to make money besides ratings so we shall see. 

 

I have been paying way more attention than I normally do because I'm looking forward to the show - but it seems like most people covering it are giving LoT good feedback.  All of the actors seem to be getting loads of convention attention.  But maybe Flash got more before it launched - I have no idea.  It seems like it's getting as much as Supergirl did though and she was well known and launching on a major network.

Edited by nksarmi
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way2interested

way2interested

Idk I have this really weird feeling that LoT isn't going to do very well ratings wise which is disheartening for me because I feel like the show is going to make me fall in love with Sara and Rip and maybe even Snart... 

 

I just haven't seen so much hype for that show as I did with the Flash... and with how expensive LoT is, that's not very promising. 

 

I hope the show does well for the sake of Sara's character. But some part of me feels like this isn't going to end well... 

I've had that feeling as well. Part of the reason, I think, is because Flash's pilot was "leaked" early and that the buzz was mostly word-of mouth coming from people who either saw the pilot or knew Barry from Arrow. Plus, the Flash is kind of a more household-ish name when it comes to superheroes. When Flash was coming out, EVERYONE I knew, even as general viewers of television, was talking about it, or at least knew what it was, with most not even knowing it was a spinoff. With LoT, I have not seen as much organic buzz or word-of-mouth at all. Most buzz I've seen comes from comic people or fans of Flash and/or Arrow, along with some of the positive reviews of the pilot.

 

I don't know, the whole thing makes me feel weird, like as if the EPs expect it to be a hit without going out and trying to make a show in a way. With Flash, the show happened to become a hit, and the writers and the network didn't even have overwhelming confidence in it (they were definitely confident, since they skipped the backdoor pilot stage, but I partially feel like they only were confident in their marketing rather than the show. Heck, they made sure that EBR was coming to the show as soon as they could to create a safety net for 1a).

 

I'm very bipolar with it. I kind of cringe in anticipation with the show and the overwhelming characters that they have, but every time I see a promo I can't help but laugh and smile at it. Overall, I'm more excited to see it rather than get invested in it, if that makes sense. I think it might not do as well as they want, but I definitely don't think it's going to completely fail. Besides, if the show would get a second season and didn't do phenomenally well, you could expect budget cuts, and I doubt they would be getting rid of three characters who don't require special effects.    

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Agent Carter isn't going to be competing with LoT. AC is on Tuesday night at 9/8c - it's taking AoS' place until that show returns. LoT is on Thursday nights at 8/7c.

I too have been discouraged about the wave of negative reviews. It's why I haven't been posting a whole lot lately. I was so excited about this show ever since it was announced, and now I'm getting a sinking feeling that it's going to be a horrible flop. :( And I don't really have much to say about Arrow anymore.

Edited by Starfish35
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

Agent Carter isn't going to be competing with LoT. AC is on Tuesday night at 9/8c - it's taking AoS' place until that show returns. LoT is on Thursday nights at 8/7c.

I too have been discouraged about the wave of negative reviews. It's why I haven't been posting a whole lot lately. I was so excited about this show ever since it was announced, and now I'm getting a sinking feeling that it's going to be a horrible flop. :( And I don't really have much to say about Arrow anymore.

 

I'm sorry @Starfish35 :( Hopefully it picks up after the first two episodes! 

 

You have to admit with the premise of the show, there's a lot of exposition to get through in a short amount of time especially with the shortened season. So because the first two episodes tackle that, hopefully it gets better as they have more adventures! 

 

And about Arrow, hopefully they kill of Laurel at the end of the season so you'll have more to say :)

Edited by wonderwall
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I don't think I've read a positive review yet which seems really odd. I know Arrow has major pacing issues on the big episodes. I can see that being an issue for LoT and on a much larger scale given the size of the cast and the scope of the pilot.

I'll give it a shot so I can judge for myself.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I'm sorry @Starfish35 :( Hopefully it picks up after the first two episodes!

You have to admit with the premise of the show, there's a lot of exposition to get through in a short amount of time especially with the shortened season. So because the first two episodes tackle that, hopefully it gets better as they have more adventures!

And about Arrow, hopefully they kill of Laurel at the end of the season so you'll have more to say :)

I'm not so worried about it not improving. I'm (fairly) sure it will. I worry whether the audience will give it the chance to improve. :( I just really don't want the show to be a failure. Mainly for Sara's sake, but also because I was really excited about having a teamup show. :(

I guess I'm just depressed right now....lol.

As for Arrow....I'm not anti-Arrow right now really. I'm just kind of finding that I just don't have anything to say about it right now. *shrug*

Edited by Starfish35
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I'm not so worried about it not improving. I'm (fairly) sure it will. I worry whether the audience will give it the chance to improve. :( I just really don't want the show to be a failure. Mainly for Sara's sake, but also because I was really excited about having a teamup show. :(

I guess I'm just depressed right now....lol.

As for Arrow....I'm not anti-Arrow right now really. I'm just kind of finding that I just don't have anything to say about it right now. *shrug*

 

If LoT doesn't do well, I'm pretty optimistic that Sara will still stay in the universe and will be in Arrow/Flash kicking ass. 

 

I can understand why you don't have much to say. Not much good is happening, really. Plus Olicity doesn't really interest you so you won't talk about their drama. Aside from that we don't know much that we know that's going on...  So I get it :)

 

Plus, critics are extra harsh about these shows. I think that casual viewers will be easier to please :) 

Edited by wonderwall
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GirlvsTV

GirlvsTV

I'm not at all surprised it's getting poor reviews. With so many disparate characters I think you need writers who are very good at prioritizing (and balancing) characterization early on so viewers can connect and quickly become invested in the overall story. Unfortunately, that is not this group of writers. At all.

That Sepinwall review mentioned the writers seemed to hand-wave a lot of stuff in the pilot and I just don't think you can write that way for a brand new show. I feel like once shows establish their characters viewers tend to be more forgiving and willing to go along with those kinds of 'shortcuts.' To do that right away, though, probably just makes things confusing because it will be hard for viewers follow along and understand WHY these characters are doing these things. And if they can't understand that they won't become invested in the story and would be less likely to tune in for next episode.

I am still disappointed though. I wanted better for Sara (and CL), plus I was looking forward to having Rory on my TV again.

Ray Palmer and the birds can suck it though.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

I think part of the problem is the writers are acting as though it's an established show from the beginning because the majority of the characters have appeared on Arrow or The Flash. To those coming in fresh they'll be confused as hell and I think that's what happening. The writers will have to slow build trust, closeness and a reason for the audience to care about these characters. It can't be rushed and I think they're thinking Arrow and The Flash should have built this goodwill already without them having to earn it. Based on early reviews their assumptions couldn't be more wrong, if that's the case.

Edited by Ann Mack
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Proteus

Proteus

I've yet to read a positive review of the show. That's disappointing. I'm hoping they figure it out and that the audience sticks around for it.

There have been a lot of positive reviews for the show.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I'm not sure audiences pay a lot of attention to reviews. I think people watch what they want to watch and there might be enough curiosity about LOT for it to bring in really good numbers. It's an ensemble and actors like Brandon Routh, Caity Lotz and Wentworth Miller will bring in their fanbases. I feel like it has a good chance. I want it to do well (but not as well as Arrow or The Flash :P ).

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I'm not sure audiences pay a lot of attention to reviews. I think people watch what they want to watch and there might be enough curiosity about LOT for it to bring in really good numbers. It's an ensemble and actors like Brandon Routh, Caity Lotz and Wentworth Miller will bring in their fanbases. I feel like it has a good chance. I want it to do well (but not as well as Arrow or The Flash :P ).

 

Not wanting it to do as well as Arrow or Flash is, IMO, asking for the show to fail though considering it costs a LOT to make (and they've been pushing it hard so the network is desperate to see it succeed)  what with all the useless hawk people flying about, the time travelling, Ray's ridiculous suit, Firestorm's powers... Basically just a lot of CGI... 

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