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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes


ArctisTor
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I honestly saw only

his shoulder as Ray was talking to him.

Oh, okay. I thought it was

Sara

I'm guessing there were other bits from that scene in other promos? Sorry, I haven't watched them all :)

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It honestly feels like if one wanted to mix and match both extended teasers with all the promos you could construct at least half the pilot. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

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The second one, he doesn't speak, but you can see that that's who Ray's talking to, sorry to get your hopes up!

Haha, no worries, I thought I had watched a different promo from the one you were talking about :)
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I am resigned to complaining about three shows now sharing the same sets/location shots. I can handle it. I think.

Unless Legends of Tomorrow time travels back to the 16th century and starts using the costumes from Reign.

....I probably shouldn't have put that thought out there.

Reign films in Toronto so we might be all set. But who knows with the Cw?

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I thought this was interesting (also, a yin-yang reference in connection with Oliver and Barry!)...

 

Should ‘Arrow’ and ‘The Flash’ Take a Break From Crossovers?
Nick Cannata-Bowman  January 06, 2016
http://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/should-arrow-and-the-flash-take-a-break-from-crossovers.html/?a=viewall

To clarify, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with both shows emphasizing their shared universe. It’s part of what’s made DC’s TV lineup so appealing to fans, and you can hardly blame the network for playing their trump card as often as they possibly can. But there’s a marked difference between “playing to your strengths” and “doing something so often it’s not fun anymore.” If the Green Arrow calls in his friendly neighborhood speedster every time there’s a problem, it stops feeling like an occasion, and more like an unnecessary distraction.
 

The Flash and Arrow are great comic book shows because they explore different ideas of what it means to be a hero. The former treads on the side of light, operating with a strong moral compass. The latter goes down morally ambiguous path, albeit one that’s been toned down since Oliver Queen’s more murder-y Season 1 days. Together, they represent an intriguing yin and yang, intersecting at key junctures in their character development where they can each question their own respective ethical codes. When those intersections start to occur on a regular basis, it makes it difficult to focus on the story at hand for both heroes.
*  *  *
A repeat performance produces all sorts of other thematic issues. Suddenly, we have the expectation as viewers that our two heroes will turn to each other in times of crisis toward the finale. This in turn undercuts the autonomy of each character’s personal journey. It’s why the first season of Arrow carried as much weight as it did: Oliver had to face down his demons himself, without being able to count on someone swooping in at the last second to help. And while you can make the argument that working as a team is part of the journey for both shows, at some point we have to acknowledge that they’re called The Flash and Arrow, not The Flash and Arrow, and their unreasonably deep lineup of tech geniuses and super-friends.

Edited by tv echo
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* The Golden Globes have added Supergirl‘s Melissa Benoist, How to Get Away With Murder‘s Viola Davis, The Flash‘s Grant Gustin, Empire‘s Taraji P. Henson and Terrence Howard, Dr. Ken‘s Ken Jeong, American Horror Story: Hotel‘s Lady Gaga, Telenovela‘s Eva Longoria and Shades of Blue‘s Jennifer Lopez as presenters for the Jan. 10 ceremony (NBC, 8/7c).

http://tvline.com/2016/01/07/the-good-wife-matthew-morrison-season-7-cast/

(Bolding added)

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I've only quoted 2 out of the 5 things discussed by Laura Hurley (balance the ensemble and no love triangles)...

 

DC’s Legends Of Tomorrow: 5 Things It Needs To Do Differently From Arrow And The Flash
Laura Hurley  7 Jan 2016
http://whatculture.com/tv/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-5-things-it-needs-to-do-differently-from-arrow-and-the-flash.php

Arrow and The Flash are both series centered on the exploits of one main hero and his cast of supporting characters, and both shows are best when they feature the ensemble but focus on the hero. Team Arrow and Team Flash are invaluable to the shows, but Oliver Queen and Barry Allen are the leads....  Legends of Tomorrow is fundamentally an ensemble series, and so focus throughout the first season will need to be spread more or less evenly among the team of time travelers....  As long as Legends of Tomorrow explores what each character brings to the team, an ensemble focus could be fantastic for this third entry into the CW superhero universe.
*  *  *
Arrow and The Flash are both guilty of dragging the rather tired trope of the love triangle to the forefront of their heroes’ love lives, and neither show managed to write a love triangle that accomplished much of anything beyond making everybody look at least somewhat unsympathetic. Oliver/Laurel/Tommy in Season 1 of Arrow was a disaster almost from start to finish, and Barry was at his most unappealing when trying to get between Iris and Eddie during Season 1 of The Flash.... Legends of Tomorrow really needs to avoid love triangles altogether.... Besides, half of the characters of Legends of Tomorrow have already been involved in love triangles of some sort from their times on Arrow and The Flash. If Rip Hunter has knowledge of all that has happened with them in their pasts, maybe he’ll be smart enough to institute a policy of no tolerance for love triangle shenanigans.
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NBC picked up the Powerless pilot:

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/64287/nbc-picks-up-comedy-pilots-from-tina-fey-marlon-wayans-and-dc-comics/

Based on characters from DC Comics, Powerless, from executive producers Ben Queen (A to Z) and Michael Patrick Jann, is a single camera office comedy about the exceedingly average employees at an insurance company and their question to find their own power. Warner Brothers Television produces.

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Well, I guess those characters free for the Flarrow-verse and Supergirl, now. Or at least some of them.

That's a huge letdown for me even though I expected it. I was really hoping to see Dick and Babs on the live screen. :/

I wonder if they'll try to get another network to take it.

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I'm excited about Diggle and Lyla gonna fight a freaking sharkman.

I hope that it's way better than that garbage bee episode since Lyla and Diggle were amazing in the Arrow portion of the last crossover. Who's gonna be babysitting baby Sara? I kinda hope they bring her over cause that would be funny for the Flash team.

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That's a huge letdown for me even though I expected it. I was really hoping to see Dick and Babs on the live screen. :/

I wonder if they'll try to get another network to take it.

Yeah, I had high hopes for it as well. I wonder what went wrong. 

 

At this rate DC has to adore Berlanti.  Gotham is still on but isn't that it for the DC shows on TV apart from Berlanti? 

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There's Lucifer, but it hasn't started airing yet. I suspect, however, that it will end up going the way of Constantine.

ETA: oh, and there's iZombie. I keep forgetting that's a DC Comics show.

Edited by Starfish35
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Yeah, I had high hopes for it as well. I wonder what went wrong.

I read another news article that said that Tnt thinks that the market is over saturated with superhero's and the show wouldn't find viewers. Which I think is only partly true.

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It's possible but this thing has been in development limbo for awhile now.  There were probably quite a few issues going on that delayed it to the point that they just weren't sure if it was worth it.  Then they took a look at the landscape and decided there was just too much "saturation" to make it a successful show.  

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They should take Titans straight to Netflix the way Marvel has started doing - BUT I actually don't mind that it's cancelled because I hope that means DC might green light some of those characters appearing on these shows instead.  I still love Arrow and LoT looks like it's going to be great - and I really do enjoy Supergirl and Flash - but I'm not a huge television viewer so I'm starting to reach my capacity here for anything but binge watching lol.  I did enjoy the heck out of Jessica Jones that way.

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The television landscape has been saturated in crime dramas of some variety for the last forty some years and they never stop coming.   People like what they like.  And they keep liking multiple variations of the exact same thing.   Make a good show with good characters and I'm going to watch.  I absolutely would have watched Titans as long as it didn't suck. 

 

Perhaps fear of saturation is just code for their ideas sucked.  Perhaps we were just saved a repeat of the Wonder Woman disaster. 

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There's Lucifer, but it hasn't started airing yet. I suspect, however, that it will end up going the way of Constantine.

 

Well, its pilot is much, much better than Constantine's, at least. But it doesn't really feel like a comic book show in any way - you basic procedural with a twist. But at least it was entertaining - Constantine's pilot felt like it came from mid 90s, trashy and generic. And I actually really wanted it to succeed (still hope Flarrowverse will pick up the character). And while Matt Ryan wasn't bad as the lead, I was much more impressed by Tom Ellis. He really has the necessary charisma for the part.

Edited by FurryFury
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Lots of love here for Arrow and other DC TV shows...

 

8 Ways DC’s TV Shows Have Already Beaten The Movies
Sorry, but Batman v Superman will NEVER top the likes of Arrow and The Flash.
Josh Wilding   9 Jan 2016
http://whatculture.com/film/8-ways-dcs-tv-shows-have-already-beaten-the-movies.php

While the studio is going to need to do a lot to make their DC Cinematic Universe competition for Marvel’s, they’ve actually been knocking it out of the park on television for years now! In fact, the likes of Arrow, Gotham, The Flash, and Supergirl are so good (albeit in very different ways) that it’s not remotely hard to buy into the widely believed opinion that they’re better than the movies are ever going to be.

There’s certainly more than enough evidence which points to that being the case anyway, and here you will find the eight most significant ways in which the DC TV shows have already topped the movies, and why these big screen adaptations simply can’t compete even when they do start to finally get off the ground over the next couple of years... (read more)

 

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Since when is The Atom/Black Canary/Killer Frost (who people haven't even seen yet) considered fan favorites?

 

Kind of amused that he said that non-fans wouldn't know who Black Canary is. But she's Iconic! 

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During this week's TCA press tour, TNT Chief Creative Officer Kevin Reilly gave more explanation as to why they decided to pass on the Titans tv show...

 

Kevin Reilly on Turner Turnaround, 'Narcos' Envy and Conan's Future (Q&A)
JANUARY 08, 2016 2:18pm PT by Lacey Rose, Lesley Goldberg
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/kevin-reilly-turner-turnaround-narcos-853349

How much of the decision not to move forward with the DC Comics project Titans, also from Warner Bros., was based on the fact that you don’t own it?

It wasn't. Akiva [Goldsman] is a talented guy, [but] the script just wasn't there. There is an unbelievable glut of superhero things in the market right now and if you have a really good one, clearly people are up for it. But I just don't think that there's a need for one that, for me, at least on paper didn't seem to be screaming to get made.

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From TCAs

Kevin Smith directing but not writing an episode of The Flash

Vixen could spinoff from Arrow or end up on LoT

CW has no plans for a female lead superhero show

LoT is bigger, funnier than Arrow & Flash, compared it to Guardians of the Galaxy meets Doctor Who

ETA: Vixen is getting a S2 on CW Seed

Edited by Morrigan2575
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They have no plans for a female lead superhero show, but Vixen could spin off from Arrow or end up on LOT? Or do you mean spin off from Arrow and end up on LOT?

Or

Damian Holbrook (@damianholbrook) tweeted at 0:18 PM on Sun, Jan 10, 2016:Pedowtiz says #Vixen could spin herself out of #Arrow or "join #Legends." INTERESTING COMMENT! #TCA16(https://twitter.com/damianholbrook/status/686235653143674880?s=02)

Damian Holbrook (@damianholbrook) tweeted at 0:17 PM on Sun, Jan 10, 2016:No plans for a female-led superhero show at #TheCW, but Pedowitz points out Black Canary, Speedy & the arrival of Killer Frost #TCA16(https://twitter.com/damianholbrook/status/686235362763608064?s=02)

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Critic Todd VanDerWerff was not impressed with the LOT pilot, but he does have hope the cast will be able to improve the show. I'm curious now - is it normal Flarrow and he had unrealistic expectations, or is it truly bad?

 

 

Legends of Tomorrow is up now. This pilot (all two hours of it) is a horrible, horrible mess! #TCA16 https://twitter.com/tvoti/status/686256733652570112

 

 

This is too bad. I expect the cast will be good enough that they’ll figure it out eventually. #TCA16 https://twitter.com/tvoti/status/686256900984328192

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Only a few of the actors are any good, and the CW doesn't have the budget for those special effects long-term, so I'm not particularly surprised. Wonder what Mo Ryan/Sepinwall think, if they've seen it?

Also, Ray Palmer ruins everything. Also also, HA!

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Critic Todd VanDerWerff was not impressed with the LOT pilot, but he does have hope the cast will be able to improve the show. I'm curious now - is it normal Flarrow and he had unrealistic expectations, or is it truly bad?

Its not very often that I'm actually all that impressed with pilots. Usually I find them slow and clunky, Veronica Mars, Nikita, OUAT and maybe Angel are the only ones that's have really been some of my favorite episodes of the series. I'm willing to give them a bit to work out all the kinks.

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He said the first hour was overstuffed, and the second hour was just plain bad.

"Hour two is just flat out bad. Hour one is kind of funny in a, “We’re trying to do too much!” way."

Edited by AyChihuahua
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I read an earlier complaint that they just drag out the team forming waaaaaaay too long. I supposed if EVERYONE has to mull it over and be convinced it would get repetitive and dull.

He said the first hour was overstuffed, and the second hour was just plain bad.

"Hour two is just flat out bad. Hour one is kind of funny in a, “We’re trying to do too much!” way."

I'm hoping that hour two is subjective. It's not good news if the first week is kind of slow and the second is bad. Even if the third week is great, would anyone tune in? Edited by BkWurm1
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That's too bad, I remember liking some of his reviews back when he wrote for AVClub, so I tend to trust his opinion. But as it was already said, pilots tend to be clunky. Been a while since I've seen a really impressive pilot (I think I really loved 12 Monkey's last year, and Agent Carter's was good too, other than that, mediocre to awful. And some of my current favorite shows managed to have weak first seasons, not just pilots).

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Pilots are typically bad, but I also trust TVDW's opinion. I just hope it's not like the Hawks Flarrow crossover which I truly thought was horrible. I think CC and Sara will help with the tone, and I'm looking forward to seeing Rip Hunter. 

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The problem here is that it's a 2 episode pilot airing on 2 weeks. It makes it a little harder to get people to tune in for episode 3 if both episodes are bad. Especially if the 2nd episode is worst than the first.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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GB talking about a crossover with Supergirl like it's an actual thing that might happen:

The clock is ticking on whether Supergirl will crossover with The Flash and/or Arrow this year. DC Comics uber-producer Greg Berlanti say his teams on all three shows would need to lock down a plan with The CW and CBS within roughly a month in order to make a climatic multi-network crossover happen this season.


“I would love it, a lot of things would have to go right and people would have to say ‘Yes,’” Berlanti said. “It would have to figured out very soon. It would all have to be figured out in the next month or so. As it remains right now we’ve talked internally about how cool it would be, but we haven’t had official conversations. [The CW chief Mark Pedowitz] is supportive.”

 

In the same article, AK compares the development of the 3 shows aired so far:

We were blessed with The Flash, which came out of the gate fully formed in a way that Arrow didn’t. Arrow took awhile to find itself. Arrow needed Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) which it didn’t have early on, and it had voiceover, which it didn’t need. Whereas The Flash came out like The Flash — you can watch the pilot and the finale back to back and it’s the same show. Supergirl was one of those shows that had a learning curve on how to make it and how to tell the stories and the audience’s part on how to watch it.

Edited by lemotomato
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Looking at his replies seems like his issues were that too much was stuffed into the pilot (2 episodes). He also complained about the fact that it required knowledge of Arrow/Flash to know some of the stuff going on

 

I resent the fact that I need to look for some facts from the Arrow cannon on The Flash, so I completely understand this complaint. While all shows may exist in the same universe, they should be independent and able to stand on their own.

 

GB talking about a crossover with Supergirl like it's an actual thing that might happen:

 

In the same article, AK compares the development of the 3 shows aired so far:

 

I just hope the crossover is with The Flash. Aside from Dig reacting to her, I don't really see what Supergirl could bring to Arrow.

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Nice quote from AK about the shows development. I would agree with the gist of it.

He may have a reputation of being a BC/LL fanboy (earned or not), but he never shies away from praising Felicity/EBR.

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