Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Actionmage]

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After Arrow & The Flash - The CW's THIRD Superhero Show Will Be...?

by Jashan Boparai ⋅ Posted on October 19th, 2014

http://moviepilot.co...external,manual

 

ITA- none of the above.  I'm a DC fan and I'd rather see a Vixen/Zatanna/Amethyst/Wonder Woman/ Black Canary/Oracle/Katma Tui and Arisa show before any of the guys. Or, like the Titans, an ensemble.

 

If the DCMU is supposed to be separate from the TV verse, then why no Wonder Woman for the CW or Fox or whichever network?  If the totally adorable Grant Gustin  or very handsome Steven Amell aren't good enough to put on the Silver Screen, then I think we deserve an Amazon on our TVs!

 

.edited because non and none aren't the same.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Actionmage

[tv echo]

This looks awesome...

 

'Avengers: Age of Ultron' trailer leaks, but Marvel celebrates first look at James Spader's villainous robot (VIDEO)
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/avengers-age-ultron-trailer-unexpected-early-release-article-1.1984095

[Morrigan2575]

The Age of Ultron promo looks really good.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[KirkB]

I loved the good look at the Hulkbuster armor. but I kind of felt bad for Tony that he spent all the time and money designing it and it's probably going to be destroyed so quickly.

 

Ultron looks pretty damn cool.

 

I was already looking forward to this movie. Even more so now.

[calliope1975]

I loved the good look at the Hulkbuster armor. but I kind of felt bad for Tony that he spent all the time and money designing it and it's probably going to be destroyed so quickly.

 

It hurt me in a special place when Tony had to destroy all the iron men at the end of IM3. I understood Pepper's point, but at what cost, Pepper? At what cost?

Edited October 24, 2014 by calliope1975

[Starfish35]

Marvel Phase 3 lineup -

http://deadline.com/2014/10/new-superhero-movies-marvel-titles-release-dates-captain-america-3-black-panther-captain-marvel-864131/

I guess no Black Widow movie, but we are getting Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers). Four years from now, but at least they are doing it. But I can't say I'm thrilled about the confirmation that they're going with the Civil War storyline. I've not heard anything good about that.

[Morrigan2575]

Hmm, never read it, just dealt with the aftermath when they rebooted New Warriors with Jubilee.

I like Carol Danvers so, yay! I'd actually prefer her movie to Black Widow although I might be in the minority there.

Also happy with the Inhumans movie although I hate having to wait so long to get it. Luna, Crystal and Gorgon just showed up in X-factor.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[calliope1975]

I feel bad saying it, but I'm also okay with not getting a Black Widow movie. However, I'm very excited to see Medusa in the Inhumans. I'm loving her in the current comics. I also hope that there can be at least a Kamala Khan cameo since she's the current Ms. Marvel and an Inhuman.

[Danny Franks]

I feel bad saying it, but I'm also okay with not getting a Black Widow movie. However, I'm very excited to see Medusa in the Inhumans. I'm loving her in the current comics. I also hope that there can be at least a Kamala Khan cameo since she's the current Ms. Marvel and an Inhuman.

 

I've no idea how they'll make Black Bolt work, on the big screen. His powers are hardly conducive to making him relatable or sympathetic. They'll need an actor with serious physical charisma to pull that role off. And if they could just not include Lockjaw, that'd be great, thanks.

[Starfish35]

I'm not too disappointed about not getting a Black Widow movie either, but I know some will be.

It may be heresy, but I've never been totally convinced that ScarJo was the right pick for Black Widow. I don't hate her in the role - it's certainly a far cry from how I feel about the Katie Cassidy situation. But....I'm not a total fan either. Is that complete and total heresy? *cringes*

How do you all feel about the reports that Benedict Cumberbatch is going to play Doctor Strange?

[Danny Franks]

I'm not too disappointed about not getting a Black Widow movie either, but I know some will be.

It may be heresy, but I've never been totally convinced that ScarJo was the right pick for Black Widow. I don't hate her in the role - it's certainly a far cry from how I feel about the Katie Cassidy situation. But....I'm not a total fan either. Is that complete and total heresy? *cringes*

How do you all feel about the reports that Benedict Cumberbatch is going to play Doctor Strange?

 

I like Scarlett Johansson, and I think she makes a really good Natasha Romanoff. But I can't help wondering what Emily Blunt would have done with the role. I think she looks more like comic book Natasha, and she'd have brought a very different energy to the role that would would have been exciting to see.

 

As for Cumberbatch? Eh. A middling choice for a silly character. I'm not convinced that movie ever sees the light of day. At least not without giving Strange a total makeover that renders him unrecognisable from the comic books.

[NumberCruncher]

How do you all feel about the reports that Benedict Cumberbatch is going to play Doctor Strange?

I like Cumberbatch, but I can't say I'm super-excited to see him as Dr. Strange. He'll be fine, I suppose (i.e. I won't hate him), but I think I would have preferred them to find an older actor with a bit more gravitas to play the part. There's a part of me that wonders if this isn't just a case of inserting Cumberbatch into yet ANOTHER big blockbuster movie because he's big right now rather than because he's truly the right man for the job. He's starting to enter Jennifer Lawrence territory, both being in every big movie and (coincidentally) playing a character beyond his years. Maybe that's just me though.

And ditto on me not caring about getting a standalone Black Widow movie. I've enjoyed what I've seen of the character and I think Marvel has used her very well so far, but I'm not really dying to see more.

[dtissagirl]

Ugh Benedryl Cucumbersome. I'm legit scared of him, so I avoid looking at him directly for fear that he's gonna come off the screen and eat my brain with his scary alien face of doom.

[manbearpig]

Black Widow is my favourite thing about the entire Marvel movie universe, so I am upset that she isn't getting a solo movie. But they've used her really well in the Avengers and the Winter Soldier, and as long as they continue to do that I'll be happy enough. Marvel has a pretty solid line-up though. Apart from the main Avengers movies I'm most excited for Captain Marvel and Black Panther.

 

I also hope Joss Whedon ditches Marvel after Age of Ultron and does something else. Whether that be movies or television or whatever. I loved the Avengers, but I'd really like to see him make something different.

[Starfish35]

“Black Widow couldn’t be more important as an Avenger, but like Hulk the Avengers films will be the films where they play a primary role,” said Feige. “Her part in Avengers: Age Of Ultron is very, very big and further develops her character. The plans we have for her through the rest of the Avengers saga are very big and she is a linchpin, in fact, to those films. So instead of taking her out there or doing a prequel which we haven’t done yet, we’re continuing the forward momentum of the continuity of the Cinematic Universe, of which Widow is a key part.”

http://deadline.com/2014/10/marvel-black-panther-chadwick-boseman-black-female-superhero-movies-864294/

I hope that puts to rest the rumors I've seen in some quarters that they're going to kill her off due to ScarJo's pregnancy.

Also, Chadwick Boseman (Black Panther) is signed for five films.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Starfish35

[JayKay]

I looove mystic Marvel but Dr. Strange has never been a pull for me. I'm hoping for Umar and Dormammu though. Pleasepleaseplease. I have no interest in watching a "Strange Begins" film. But give me Clea and Brother Voodoo and Satana, even if you have to use Stephen Strange to get there. And Strange is kind of a meta-creeper so the casting could end up perfect if Cucumberpatch gives people the willies.

[calliope1975]

How do you all feel about the reports that Benedict Cumberbatch is going to play Doctor Strange?

 

I am so not here for BC playing Dr. Strange. He's a great actor and would probably do well, but I want some more color in the MCU. I was rooting for Oded Fehr (my top pick), Edgar Ramirez, or Raul Esparza. 

[tv echo]

When I was watching Agents of SHIELD this week, there was a scene with Mockingbird (Agent Morse) fighting - she had long wavy blonde hair, wore an all black leather suit, and had weapons in two hands.  It was so reminiscent of Sara's Canary fighting on Arrow that I was taken aback.  

[Morrigan2575]

When I was watching Agents of SHIELD this week, there was a scene with Mockingbird (Agent Morse) fighting - she had long wavy blonde hair, wore an all black leather suit, and had weapons in two hands.  It was so reminiscent of Sara's Canary fighting on Arrow that I was taken aback.  

Mockingbird is a rip off of Black Canary...right down to being married to Marvel's Archer (Hawkeye)...

[foreverevolving]

I won't rest and be satisfied until i get my Batwoman Trilogy.

there is so much that can be done with her character. (and that's besides the gay aspect). the entire rise of the current Batwoman is due to Batman "dying" so she took his name and made it her own mission. they can totally take it that way, especially with the twin sister turned evil thing.

they'll need to find a really good actress to be able to portray both sisters and do the physical stuff. but.. I'm sure there is someone out there.

[Danny Franks]

I posted this in the media thread, in response to an article comparing Arrow and The Flash. Should it go in this thread instead? Maybe. Who the hell knows. Anyway:

 

The problems with the Flash revolve around the leads, in my view. Gustin just isn't leading man material. From what I've seen, he simply cannot do anything with any gravitas at all. He's fine when he's being fun loving and carefree, and even when he's boyishly pining for his sister (yuck), but when he's trying to shout or threaten or angst over his father or some guy who died by mistake? Weak. He looks like a little boy playing at being an adult.

And Blaurel, as I'm calling Iris, is just another mistake by the writers. She's bland and forgettable, the third leg of a love triangle that really has no legs. She has no connection to any of the main storylines, that I can see. She's the mug who is being kept in the dark when everyone else is in on the secret, and the only ties she has are as the cop's daughter and as the hero's unrequited, icky love interest. Sound familiar?

I like Caitlin, a lot. I like Wheelchair Ed. I like Cop Dad v.2. But those three aren't enough to get me at all invested in a show.

[FurryFury]

I actually enjoy Barry way more than I ever did Oliver. He's just much more likable, and I like the actor, too (even since his Arrow role). I was so sick of Oliver's manpain after two years of Arrow, watching somebody nice and energetic and funny feels very refreshing.

 

And Iris is much better than Laurel, there is no cringeworthy cheating drama in their past and they have an actual friendship, also, the actress is much better than KC and has actual charisma. I do agree that she needs to get something to do, pronto, otherwise she'll risk becoming Laurel #2, but so far, she's not. 

 

My favorite character is probably Dr. Wells so far, but I'm a bit afraid the show's going to go the predictable route of making him a villain, but I do hope it's better that that.

 

I'm a bit sad Felicity's not on Flash - Barry has much better chemistry with her than any other females on his own show, and as I don't watch Arrow anymore, I don't get to see her anywhere.

Edited November 2, 2014 by FurryFury

[Velocity23]

Well you get to see her back on Flash for the crossover for 1x08

[FurryFury]

That's not enough :( She wasn't my favorite character on Arrow, but all my faves are either dead or gone, so she's the only one I miss (well, and Diggle too). And we had to watch the Olicity shilling even on Flash, which was definitely overkill (I don't hate them, it just felt unnecessary).

BTW, who are the other characters to cross over?

[Velocity23]

Emily, Stephen & David were at the table read. So my guess is they are definitely there.

[Danny Franks]

That's not enough :( She wasn't my favorite character on Arrow, but all my faves are either dead or gone, so she's the only one I miss (well, and Diggle too). And we had to watch the Olicity shilling even on Flash, which was definitely overkill (I don't hate them, it just felt unnecessary).

BTW, who are the other characters to cross over?

 

 

I don't know that I'd ever call character continuity 'unnecessary'. Felicity is supposed to be hurt that Oliver things being miserable is more important than being with her. She's visiting the guy who called her out on her feelings for Oliver, and who admitted his own unrequited feelings for someone. It seems natural to me that, at some point, the issue of Felicity's feelings for Oliver would be acknowledged when she talks to Barry.

 

Not only that, but they can parallel Felicity/Oliver with Barry/Iris and try to build on the fact he's in love with his sister in ways more subtle than just having him say 'I'm in love with my sister'.

[FurryFury]

I just don't feel that a love story that only concerns a guest character is important enough to mentioned in such an obvious way. Of course, YMMV. Hinting would have been enough for me. Personally, I'm sick of Oliver as it is and hearing about him on another show, even if it's a spin-off, didn't make me happy. Didn't care about his appearance in the pilot as well, but at least I could understand it. 

[Shanna]

I thought all of their conversation about arrow and Oliver and team issues were directly related to what's going on on the flash. Except that iris looks completely uninterested in Barry whereas Oliver was hilariously jealous when Barry was on arrow.

[Password]

Iris and her brotherly love for Barrles is starting to really bother me.

[Sakura12]

I loved seeing Felicity on the Flash and wouldn't mind at all if she moved to Central City. I'm not an Olicity shipper so I don't care about that. Felicity is more than a love interest so I don't need her to be one for Barry. She can be his friend and team member. I loved being able to see Felicity outside of work and having fun with other people.

 

When Team Arrow comes to the Flash I hope they leave their depressing dark storylines behind in Starling City (that's one of many reasons I'm not watching Arrow). I'm enjoying the Flash because of it's lighter tone. 

 

I don't remember connecting with the Arrow cast until after the second half of season 1, so I'm giving the actors on Flash some more time to get into their roles. I do like Barry and think he's doing well with what he's been given so far. He's not a dark character like Oliver so any darkness he faces is going to be handled differently. 

Edited November 2, 2014 by Sakura12

[formerlyfreedom]

The place to discuss the comics' universes and where they intersect (and don't)...

[wingster55]

Iris and her brotherly love for Barrles is starting to really bother me.

I actually don't mind this and don't think it'll hamper the future relationship. 

[Danny Franks]

Iris and her brotherly love for Barrles is starting to really bother me.

I'm more bothered about the fact that Barry has an inappropriate interest in his surrogate sister. The idea of their relationship becoming romantic makes me genuinely uncomfortable, and I don't even care about either character. But Iris clearly doesn't see him as a potential boyfriend, and seems to genuinely love him like a brother. On top of that, he's obviously not her type.

I can see where it's going though. At some point, people will probably get annoyed with her for not reciprocating as though the mere fact that Barry wants her means she should just go with it. As though she owes him something because he loves her.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Password]

I can see where it's going though. At some point, people will probably get annoyed with her for not reciprocating as though the mere fact that Barry wants her means she should just go with it. As though she owes him something because he loves her.

 

I can definitely see this happening as I myself am frustrated with Iris. But mostly because Barry seems such a sap for acting the way he does and Iris being as oblivious as she is. It's not cute and romantic, it's annoying and bothersome because I genuinely think it'll be super difficult for her to overcome this barrier. If there was even a hint of indecision on her part, I'd run with it. But as it is, there are zero romantic feelings so I'm at a loss as to why Barrles isn't with someone else.

[DrSpaceman10]

It can't be a good sign that my favorite episode of Arrow this year was The Flash 1x04...

[Danny Franks]

I can definitely see this happening as I myself am frustrated with Iris. But mostly because Barry seems such a sap for acting the way he does and Iris being as oblivious as she is. It's not cute and romantic, it's annoying and bothersome because I genuinely think it'll be super difficult for her to overcome this barrier. If there was even a hint of indecision on her part, I'd run with it. But as it is, there are zero romantic feelings so I'm at a loss as to why Barrles isn't with someone else.

A guy or girl hopelessly pining and doing nothing about it is never cute or romantic, in my view. With this show, it seems like Iris only appears so Barry can look tormented and smitten. If she has no more reason to exist than that, then she shouldn't exist.

It's not even as though she's friendzoned Barry, which he might eventually be able to escape from. She's siblingzoned him. From what I've seen, Iris considers Barry to be her dorky little brother. I can't see any way for them to turn that around without it getting gross. Incest ain't sexy.

[apinknightmare]

I can definitely see this happening as I myself am frustrated with Iris. But mostly because Barry seems such a sap for acting the way he does and Iris being as oblivious as she is. It's not cute and romantic, it's annoying and bothersome because I genuinely think it'll be super difficult for her to overcome this barrier. If there was even a hint of indecision on her part, I'd run with it. But as it is, there are zero romantic feelings so I'm at a loss as to why Barrles isn't with someone else.

 

I get why he wouldn't be with someone else at this point, because he's never made his feelings clear to Iris, so he's still holding out that hope that she'll feel the same way about him. Until that hope is dashed, he's probably not going to move on. Although there really does seem to be zero interest on her part, and she did make that sibling comparison, so...not sure how the show is going to attempt to overcome that.

It's not even as though she's friendzoned Barry, which he might eventually be able to escape from. She's siblingzoned him. From what I've seen, Iris considers Barry to be her dorky little brother. I can't see any way for them to turn that around without it getting gross. Incest ain't sexy.

 

The Arrow/Flash showrunners love to keep it in the family. Laurel and Sara/Oliver, Diggle with is sister-in-law, Iris and Barry. Ray will probably wind up being someone's cousin.

[Password]

Barry, which he might eventually be able to escape from. She's siblingzoned him. From what I've seen, Iris considers Barry to be her dorky little brother. I can't see any way for them to turn that around without it getting gross. Incest ain't sexy.

 

What I bolded (is that a word?) is what I feel makes the whole thing even more terrible than unrequited love. It's that she mentions every 10 minutes how much of a brother she sees him as. It's really something they need to drop.

 

 

I get why he wouldn't be with someone else at this point, because he's never made his feelings clear to Iris, so he's still holding out that hope that she'll feel the same way about him.

 

The problem I have is that she has shown nada, nothing on her side for him to hold onto. I can't help but compare it to Oliver and Felicity where there were these moments that made you say "Hmm what did he mean by that?" or "Is he talking about her?", things that would've given Felicity food for thought, but she still chose to move on with her life in spite of her feelings for him. Barrles pining after Iris doesn't seem that sweet and cute, it just seems...pitiful. I don't want to use the word pathetic because I adore Barry Allen, but please now.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Limbo

[apinknightmare]

The problem I have is that she has shown nada, nothing on her side for him to hold onto. I can't help but compare it to Oliver and Felicity where there were these moments that made you say "Hmm what did he mean by that?" or "Is he talking about her?", things that would've given Felicity food for thought, but she still chose to move on with her life in spite of her feelings for him. Barrles pining after Iris doesn't seem that sweet and cute, it just seems...pitiful. I don't want to use the word pathetic because I adore Barry Allen, but please now.

 

Oh, I know she hasn't, but I think he may have a serious case of 'what-if' going on in his head, so I think it's something he might not be able to let go of until she tells him there's no chance. I really wish they hadn't made them semi-siblings though, because it is gross. It's like these people just can't stop themselves from pooing all over canon relationships.

[wingster55]

It's that she mentions every 10 minutes how much of a brother she sees him as.

 

She's only done that once. 

 

The problem I have is that she has shown nada, nothing on her side for him to hold onto. I can't help but compare it to Oliver and Felicity where there were these moments that made you say "Hmm what did he mean by that?" or "Is he talking about her?", things that would've given Felicity food for thought, but she still chose to move on with her life in spite of her feelings for him. Barrles pining after Iris doesn't seem that sweet and cute, it just seems...pitiful. I don't want to use the word pathetic because I adore Barry Allen, but please now.

 

Honestly it seems that neither really dated from the time Barry was brought in to the West home to present day. Barry may have been content to just be with her regardless. Also I don't think he ever wanted to rock the boat until he met Felicity. 

 

I don't see why Iris isn't allowed to have her feelings change. Things happen, feelings change and suddenly the person who was just a friend is now your boyfriend. 

[Orion]

Watching how they handle Iris/Barry convinced me that the producers really have no idea why Laurel/Oliver didn't work. They had the chance to structure The Flash any way they wanted. They could have made that relationship be anything or nothing.  And they basically choose to double down on the mistakes the made on Arrow with less anger. They set up a weird history. They failed to show how these characters met or why they have the feelings that they have for each other. The stuck the female in a love triangle without exploring her independent of that relationship. They manufactured/shoehorned her into having something to do with the hero but aren't letting her in on the secret. And so far they have written it where those two actors have no chemistry between them.

 

I can't believe they didn't look at how Felicity and Oliver met and how successful having the cute meet be their first interaction was and work toward that.

 

The brotherly feelings make me super uncomfortable. Just because they are not blood related does not change the sibling feelings she has towards him.

 

They still have time to turn it around but they better start doing so quickly because every time I watch Iris either be oblivious towards Barry's feelings or try to pawn him off to other women my discomfort factor increases 10 fold.

[Shanna]

What I bolded (is that a word?) is what I feel makes the whole thing even more terrible than unrequited love. It's that she mentions every 10 minutes how much of a brother she sees him as. It's really something they need to drop.

I would rather they drop Barry's infatuation altogether. If they have to be together because comics or something they could still drop it for years and then have a go at it. Having him waste his energy pining over someone with zero interest just makes him look pathetic. Iris is doing nothing wrong of course. There is actually a thing about being raised as family with people that makes you not view them romantically so she is totally normal.

I can't help but compare it to Oliver and Felicity where there were these moments that made you say "Hmm what did he mean by that?" or "Is he talking about her?", things that would've given Felicity food for thought, but she still chose to move on with her life in spite of her feelings for him. .

On rewatching season two there are so, so many comments that can be interpreted as Oliver basically confessing that he is totally into felicity but just can't do it right now! It's all over that season. And you can tell from her expression that she got it, and she still gave it a go with Barry a bit (he thankfully seemed a bit less hung up on iris then). With Oliver making comments about him being carded in the background heh. Rewatching his episodes on arrow made me realize what didn't feel right about them to me, aside from being hung up on other people. I think Felicity seems to give off a more mature vibe than Barry. No idea what GGs real age is, they are probably in the ballpark but although they are both sunny characters, Felicity somehow seems to have more weight to her. Maybe as they develop Barry into the flash he will mature as well and seem a better match (not that I'm shipping them or anything). Maybe it will make him a better match for Caitlin or Iris.

[Danny Franks]

She's only done that once. 

 

Honestly it seems that neither really dated from the time Barry was brought in to the West home to present day. Barry may have been content to just be with her regardless. Also I don't think he ever wanted to rock the boat until he met Felicity. 

 

I don't see why Iris isn't allowed to have her feelings change. Things happen, feelings change and suddenly the person who was just a friend is now your boyfriend.

But the point wasn't that she sees him as a friend it was that she seems to see him as a brother. So if "things happen" there, it's pretty weird and unhealthy. I don't see any reaction from her but horror and then sympathy, if she learned Barry sees her like that.

Anyway, as I've said before, it just seems like another writing decision to put obstacles in front of their chosen couple, and just like on Arrow, they made the obstacle too big for a lot of people. So if you create a potential pairing that some fans don't want to root for, those fans will start looking for alternatives. Felicity, Caitlin, any other female guest stars or temporary love interests for Barry. So far, so Arrow.

[wonderwall]

I actually don't mind seeing Iris's emotions for Barry develop. I wonder what will be that moment that makes her think "huh, maybe I love him in more than just a brotherly way". I think Linda will help spark that but I hope that it's not it. I also hope she develops feelings for Barry BEFORE she finds out he's the Flash. Otherwise it'll just make me wonder if she's actually in love with Barry for Barry and not because he's the flash. I'm all for seeing this growth on Iris's part. I just hope they make her a lot less boring, because she kind of is boring to me. 

[Morrigan2575]

Sadly, I think they're going for the triangle built for 2...Barry loves Iris, Iris crushes on The Flash. We'll even get scenes of Iris confessing her feelings about the Flash to Barry asking what she should do because she doesn't want to hurt Eddie.

Iris will find out that Barry=Flash which will allow/cause her to view Barry in a romantic light...

Edited November 2, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Shanna]

Sadly, I think they're going for the triangle built for 2...Barry loves Iris, Iris crushes on The Flash. We'll even get scenes of Iris confessing her feelings about the Flash to Barry asking what she should do because she doesn't want to hurt Eddie.

Iris will find out that Barry=Flash which will allow/cause her to view Barry in a romantic light...

God I hope not but it does seem plausible. Now that I think about it, they tried that with laurel on arrow too.

I hate those kind of stories because it's like they are just crushing on someone because they are famous or something. And it is weird with iris because she already loves Barry just as a brother. If I found this out about a brother I would be worried for them. That the only change I can see happening.

[dtissagirl]

More than the icky incestuous tones across two shows and several characters, Barry/Iris also robs me from one very important thing wrt deciding to 'ship a couple: I want to see them actively fall in love. I never ever want to start out with one of them already head over heels, and only be told about it. Imo, the first meeting is important, the getting to know each other part of the relationship, even more so.

And frankly, both Laurel/Oliver and Barry/Iris have this undertone of first love = one true love that I find INCREDIBLY high-schoolish and silly. But the EPs seem obsessed with the idea behind it. Even retconning Lyla into being Diggle's ex-wife seemed to me like highlighting that. It will not ever stop being weird for me.

[TanyaKay]

The Arrow/Flash showrunners love to keep it in the family. Laurel and Sara/Oliver, Diggle with is sister-in-law, Iris and Barry. Ray will probably wind up being someone's cousin.

 

Ray could be related to Caitlin (they have similar coloring) or perhaps her fiancé Ronnie which will make Ronnie and Caitlin indirect cousin and I think I just grossed out myself thinking about that.

Please stop with all these incesty relationships. There are supposedly 7 billion people and counting, familial relationships should be totally separate from romantic ones.

[ban1o]

Don't really see THAT a big deal with Barry/Iris. They never really refer to each other as brother sister. Even Iris said "we grew up together like brother and sister, but since we're NOT like brother and sister...." Sure it's kinda weird but that's just CW being CW with the weird, slightly awkward relationships. Joe never adopted Barry so they're not really brother and sister. I think they wanted to avoid making Iris "just the love interest" like Laurel  so they made her a surrogate sibling as well to make her more involved in the plot and with Barry. It's funny I remember seeing an interview with one of the EP's (I think it was AK) and he didn't think there was anything weird about the surrogate sibling thing and thought it was "kinda like a fairytale"  I believe. (LOL) A lot of people still  ship them from what I've seen so it hasn't hurt it the "ship" that much haha. 

Edited November 2, 2014 by ban1o

[Danny Franks]

More than the icky incestuous tones across two shows and several characters, Barry/Iris also robs me from one very important thing wrt deciding to 'ship a couple: I want to see them actively fall in love. I never ever want to start out with one of them already head over heels, and only be told about it. Imo, the first meeting is important, the getting to know each other part of the relationship, even more so.

 

 

This, and Orion's earlier post about the value of a meetcute and the clear benefits it has had for Oliver and Felicity, leave me baffled as to why they've decided, on both shows, to proffer up the endgame couple from the beginning, complete with baggage and awkwardness and obvious reasons for fans not to want them together.

 

Even shows like Castle or Bones, where the endgame couple has been obvious from the start, didn't create a pre-existing relationship that the viewers weren't privy to. Imagine if the first episode of Castle had been Beckett going to see her douchebag ex who writes crime novels. The exciting spark of that first meeting, the chemistry that's discovered by the characters at the same time as the viewers, the clash of personalities that is brand new and completely fresh. None of that. Instead, they'd be like Oliver and Laurel; bitter and angry and pissy. And yelling at someone doesn't always translate into sexual tension. On Bones, yes Brennan and Booth had met and worked together before, but only briefly (I think that may have been retconned after I quit watching the show, but the point still stands. A retcon doesn't alter the first meeting that viewers saw at the start of the show).

 

You do not have to layer in immediate, deep-seated reasons for a couple to not get together. You can show two people getting to know one another, and then their relationship takes a non-romantic turn, and it takes a while for them to get to where they want to be. You can have them flirt up a storm, but just not go any further. Yes. you can even have one be attracted to the other, but the other is already in a relationship.

 

So why not make Iris a cute journalist who Barry runs into on a case? Why not make her an internet blogger who gets interested in this superhero guy? Why not make her a new cop in town who gets annoyed with Barry being late, but appears to develop softer feelings for him underneath that? They could have made her absolutely anything they wanted. They chose to make her his pseudo-sister. Weirdos.

 

And with Arrow, why not make Laurel Lance the lawyer who Oliver starts to cross paths with during his vigilante escapades? A feisty, tough, passionate young woman who wants justice for the people of the city just as much as he does? A woman he's never met before, but finds himself drawn to. If they had given Oliver and Laurel a scene where they meet for the first time, and Laurel is disapproving without being poisonous, and Oliver is louche and charming, perhaps the show would be very, very different now.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Danny Franks