Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Sakura12]

With LoT in the mix I don't think they have to use Arrow or the Flash for new hero set ups anymore. The LoT team can find new heroes throughout time, I think the point of this show is for that purpose especially if they plan on cast changes every season. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm interested in a cast shakeup but I think there needs to be a stable core group that doesn't change. Of course they're idea of core cast might different from mine but I think Rip, Sara, Ray are being set up as their core group. I think Cold, Heatwave, Hawkman and Firestorm might be expendable. Not sure about Hawkgirl, she seems to be very popular with fans. So I think she might be part of the core cast.

[Proteus]

With LoT in the mix I don't think they have to use Arrow or the Flash for new hero set ups anymore. The LoT team can find new heroes throughout time, I think the point of this show is for that purpose especially if they plan on cast changes every season.

I doubt any cast changes will be as dramatic as Bleeding Cool claims.

[Sakura12]

I hope so, I don't plan on watching more than a season if they change the entire cast. I'd be fine with them getting rid of some of the men and adding more women like Zatana or Lady Blackhawk.  

 

I'd continue watching if Rip, Sara, Ray, Kendra and maybe Stein (as the brains/mentor figure) are the core group. 

[KirkB]

Since it seems like Rip Hunter and his time ship (or whatever) are what moves the team through time and space he more than likely is the only character guaranteed to remain on the show. He's literally the central narrative device. But everyone else is technically expendable. That said, I would be surprise if they don't pick a core team that more or less stays intact. Sara seems likely and so does Ray. The Hawks...I don't know, that probably depends on audience reaction. If they're popular they will stick around, if not they may fade away. Cold and Heatwave are almost certainly temporary since their inclusion seems to be a particularly odd one in the first place. Firestorm is the wild card.

 

I imagine part of what they're going to do is test out a bunch of different lesser known heroes (ie the ones DC lets them have) through the various time periods to see how they do with the audience. If they get a big response they'll come back later on as part of the team. 

[nksarmi]

I kind of hope they keep LoT a spring premiere running 13 episodes non-stop because I suspect it will always feel like a tighter, more exciting show that way.  And I would mind a little setup on Arrow or Flash - depending on who/what/where/when etc....  Like if LoT wanted Roy, I would love to see him surface on Arrow first.  Same for Constantine given the implied history between him and Oliver.  I wouldn't even mind if Huntress appeared on Arrow and then went over to LoT (though she and Sara don't like each other lol).  But I don't know that I want them to dedicate any episodes to setup like they had to do with Ray and Sara - it would be just more remind the audience who this person is and have them get recruited for LoT at the end of the episode or something like that.

 

For me, I don't think many of the LoT characters are dispensable so I think how much "trade out" there is will depend on if the actor/actress wants to do other things.   And frankly, soon I think they are going to have to structure contracts with these people to read something like "will appear in 15 episodes between all three shows" rather than show-specific contracts.  Can they do that?

 

Anyway, character by character...

 

-Rip is kind of necessary as he does the recruiting and its his ship/mission.  Plus I suspect he's going to be an easy fan-favorite.  The only character I could see them replacing him with - if the actor wanted to do something else for awhile - would be Booster Gold (and then we'd probably see them both in a future season).

 

-Sara is too important for them to ever lose unless the actress wants to do something else.  They already realized the huge backlash they got from killing her and went through ridiculous measures to bring her back to life.  Plus the actress herself brings things to the table that few who could replace her would bring.  I honestly think they will keep Sara as long as Caity wants to do it and if she does want a reduced role at some point, they will leave her alive to guest on any of the shows at any time.

 

-Ray - I actually think Ray is disposable from the show but I don't think they will ever kill him.  While I'm sure they will keep BR under contract as long as he wants, I think they would still leave him alive to do guest appearances if BR wanted to do movies or something.  Frankly, I think he should capitalize on playing Ray as long as he can.  His Superman might not get fanboys excited about him - but he has a chance to lock down that comic con revenue forever with Ray.  ****Sidenote, somehow, someway, getting Ray over to Supergirl would be a funny as hell crossover.  She could even tell him he looks like her cousin.

 

-Stein/Jay - I think the Stein type character will be invaluable to this show, but I don't see the character of Stein wanting to stick around while his wife is alive so that makes me sad for what might happen there.  However, I do believe the older, wiser, "father figure" role does need to be filled so and Jay represents color for the show, so I think they might try to keep Firestorm on no matter what.

 

- Hawkgirl - while she's a woman and represents color on the show, I could see her being someone they could switch out (but not kill).  I tend to lean toward them not doing this because I think she will be a fast fan favorite, but I could see them at some point "losing" her only to "find" her later if the actress wants to do something else for awhile.

 

- Hawkman - I don't expect him to make it out of season one alive.  I think we are getting him just to up the angst for Hawkgirl.

 

- Cold - I don't think they will want to lose Cold for the Flash show, but I do think he could walk away from the mission at the end of the first season.

 

- Heatwave - I think he's disposable as well.  His character doesn't have the history with Flash that Cold does, and I don't expect him to be a fan favorite.  They might have brought him in just to kill him.  If Cold stays on the show, I expect Heatwave to be replaced with Golden Glider by the second season.

 

So yea, I think they have some room for switch outs and they definitely have characters who are already established in the Flarrowverse who could join the team.....Huntress, WildCat, Nyssa, Roy, Constantine, Dr. Light (though probably not), Golden Glider, and they could even move a character like Vibe or the yet unknown brother to Iris that people are speculating about over for a season if they want to mix things up with their original shows.  But I am hoping that if LoT does well and goes for a long time that characters like Rip, Sara, and Stein stick around.

[wingster55]

-Sara is too important for them to ever lose unless the actress wants to do something else.  They already realized the huge backlash they got from killing her and went through ridiculous measures to bring her back to life.

 

I don't know if it was that she was killed...or that she was killed to set up Laurel's BC arc. A combo of both I'm sure but I do think if she was just killed for Thea's arc (since ultimately that's what came of it)...maybe not such a huge backlash?

[foreverevolving]

Since it seems like Rip Hunter and his time ship (or whatever) are what moves the team through time and space he more than likely is the only character guaranteed to remain on the show. He's literally the central narrative device. But everyone else is technically expendable. That said, I would be surprise if they don't pick a core team that more or less stays intact. Sara seems likely and so does Ray. The Hawks...I don't know, that probably depends on audience reaction. If they're popular they will stick around, if not they may fade away. Cold and Heatwave are almost certainly temporary since their inclusion seems to be a particularly odd one in the first place. Firestorm is the wild card.

 

I imagine part of what they're going to do is test out a bunch of different lesser known heroes (ie the ones DC lets them have) through the various time periods to see how they do with the audience. If they get a big response they'll come back later on as part of the team. 

The only problem, imo, with that idea is that we already know that this is not always the case with these producers!

Laurel is by far the most... disliked (i'll be nice it's Thanksgiving) character in the Flarrow - verse and yet she's still around.

 

Personally I think Sara would be a core character, if only because they went to all the trouble of resurrecting her especially for the show!! (I call BS on it being for Buckles sake or whatever, ROFL!).

[FurryFury]

I think those new rumors are bullshit or grossly exaggerated. No way would they dump Sara and Ray after all the hard work they've put into them on Arrow. Other characters, maybe (probably not Stein or Rip though, but who knows), especially if they've learned to monitor the audience reaction. But I really don't think they'do a full-on anthology. It's not a popular format for modern TV, yeah, there's American Horror Story, but it's pretty much the only successful show of its kind. Overall, modern TV (and increasingly movies) are all about investing in characters. 

[jaytee1812]

Where was this huge outcry anabout Sara being killed, apart from a few complaints in the episode thread I didn't see anything else.

[wonderwall]

Where was this huge outcry anabout Sara being killed, apart from a few complaints in the episode thread I didn't see anything else.

 

I think the ratings spooked the network...

 

It went from a 1.1 or 1.0 or something to a 0.8 IIRC

[Chaser]

I don't think the ratings drop spooked them. I remember more than a few complaints from more than a few people. But I don't think Sara was brought back just because of that. They wanted another spin-off for their comic universe. The original intention was to spin off Ray, but the mixed to negative reaction cause them to tweak their plan. They still wanted BR/Ray but decided to go with a Team show instead and pull in some popular characters. I think the reaction to Sara's death made her a good option. Plus they probably felt they could win some people over to Laurel's side by 'fixing' an error in her story.

[wonderwall]

I don't think the ratings drop spooked them. I remember more than a few complaints from more than a few people. But I don't think Sara was brought back just because of that. They wanted another spin-off for their comic universe. The original intention was to spin off Ray, but the mixed to negative reaction cause them to tweak their plan. They still wanted BR/Ray but decided to go with a Team show instead and pull in some popular characters. I think the reaction to Sara's death made her a good option. Plus they probably felt they could win some people over to Laurel's side by 'fixing' an error in her story.

 

I think the ratings were a /part/ of it, not the whole thing. Ray was a failed character so yeah I think that was another part of it. Plus it's not a coincidence that Sara is probably a character that probably gets the most hype so it's safe to say that she definitely had a following and the network recognized that. 

[doesntworkonwood]

There was an entire 'canary lives' initiative, and whilst I'm sure that wasn't the sole reason that Sara came back, that's a lot more than just a few people on a forum. When they messed up with Ray, they knew that getting Sara back would be guaranteed to get a positive response.

[kismet]

Let's just be honest too. Caity Lotz is the perfect candidate for a team spin-off. She checks off so many boxes:

-Known to the Flarrowverse

-A fanbase of her own

-Actor crossed trained in martial arts that can do realistic stunts on her own, that has impressed the stunt teams.

-A character that requires little CGI to make her believable as part of the team.

-Relatively Cheap in comparison to the likes of BR & VG

-Female, Young, Attractive

-Demonstrated respect for the DC universe

-Lastly, her character has a knack to rise back from the dead.

 

Even if SL was not who the network or DC envisioned as a lead to their new team spin-off, she really is the perfect candidate. I don't see her going anywhere in s2 of LoT (if there is a s2) because unless her character drastically fails she really is a good member to keep as part of the core of the show.

Edited November 27, 2015 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

If I had to guess, it basically went something like this.

April/May - Berlanti and Co. Make a pitch for new spin-off about Blue Beetle. They are met with mild interest but nothing like what Pedowitz expressed over The Flash.

June - Berlanti and Co. Cast Brandon Routh as Ray Palmer (Ted Kord previously pulled by DC). Berlanti was hoping that casting a (relatively) big DC Name Actor would convince CW on the Spinoff. Pedowitz still not biting.

July/August - Full Court Press on Ray, Raylicty etc. Every interview around this time mimics the S2 summer interviews about Barry and Baricity (seriously look them up, almost word for word).

October/December - Sara is killed people online complain, ratings drop from 1.1 for 301 to 0.8 for 302 (catches CW attention but nothing much beyond that). Ray is NOT the hit with the fans that Berlanti was hoping for. Plus there are major issues with the ATOM suit which delay Ray's story. Laurel as Black Canary is leaked and they get mixed reactions but something looked promising).

January - Heroes and Villains TCA Winter Panel plus Fight Club promo. By this point Berlanti had already switched gears and was no longer pitching a Solo ATOM spinoff. I'm 99% convinced the entire point of this panel was one last push by Berlanti for the Spinoff, this time it's for a team show. Invited to the panel are ATOM, Firestorm, Cold, Heatwave and Black Canary.

We know that Berlanti was asked about the Spinoff at TCAs and said that they were in the early stages of talks. We also know that Pedowitz was asked at the TCAs and, once again stated he wasn't interested in another Arrow spin-off (at that time).

My personal opinion is that the original intent was to put Black Canary/Laurel in the new LoT spin-off. However Black Canary didn't go over like gang busters at TCAs, in fact the EP's ended spending more time defending the choice of only masks and only Black Canary in the panel (to the press). Hell, Berlanti even fell on his sword over the decision but, I never felt the writers only believed Masks were important or that BC was the only female hero worth displaying. I've always maintained TCA Winter Panel was about proving LoT could work as a spin-off.

February - LoT announced, orignal casting notices include Ray/ATOM, Stein/Firestorm (minus Ronnie), Cold and Heatwave and Caity Lotz as an unidentified character.

Again, my personal opinion, is the EPs didn't get the positive result they hoped for with Laurel as BC. So, they substituted Sara/Canary for Laurel/Black Canary.

As for why they picked Sara? Well, they knew Sara was popular, they knew the ratings took a hit after she was killed, CL has a working relationship with BR (made a movie together Summer 2014) and there was a campaign to get Sara back.

Would the campaign alone have saved Sara? Nope. Would Sara be alive now if the press and fans at TCA embraced Laurel/Black Canary? I don't think so (personally)

Edited November 27, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[jaytee1812]

I don't see any evidence Sara is popular outside this forum.

They would've been better not white washing White Canary and casting a decent actress who has a broader appeal.

Edited November 27, 2015 by jaytee1812

[bijoux]

Two things surprise me in this account. They were talking about Barry in the summer before S2 even though he only appeared in episode 8? Wow. I mean I loved 2x08 and 2x09 and Barry in them, and it makes sense due to the spin-off but somehow it still surprised me. The other thing is announcing Caity Lotz as an unidentified character. That one just makes me laugh. Like, who the hell else would she be? Unless they were maybe considering a Shado - Mei situation. Sara's lost twin. Or maybe snatching her doppelganger ancestor on one of the trips back in time.

[Morrigan2575]

Two things surprise me in this account. They were talking about Barry in the summer before S2 even though he only appeared in episode 8? Wow. I mean I loved 2x08 and 2x09 and Barry in them, and it makes sense due to the spin-off but somehow it still surprised me.

The Flash spin-off was announced in the Summer before S2 (June or July). The original intent was a 2 episode introduction (208/209) with a backdoor pilot set for 219 or 220.

Pedowitz made the decision in September, after seeing a rough cut for 208 to go with a traditional pilot for The Flash instead of the backdoor pilot originally planned.

The other thing is announcing Caity Lotz as an unidentified character. That one just makes me laugh. Like, who the hell else would she be? Unless they were maybe considering a Shado - Mei situation. Sara's lost twin. Or maybe snatching her doppelganger ancestor on one of the trips back in time.

If you go back to the very early pages of this thread you'll see a ton of speculation about CL character, very few people felt that she would be Sara resurrected via LP. The biggest argument given against that option was that it would totally invalidate Laurel's journey and the show would never do that. Many felt she would be an AU Sara, a Clone Sara, an Android that looks like Sara, a Sara that was pulled out of time by Rip Hunter right before her death and would ultimately go back to face her death at the end of LoT series, etc. Edited November 27, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

If you don't think Sara is popular why did they bend over in pretzel to bring her back then? They killed her, she was done. Caity thought she was finished with them. 

 

They didn't white wash White Canary. Sara's White Canary has nothing to do with the unnamed minor character named White Canary in the comics. Her entire story is different, she's just using the name like many characters have gone by Green Lantern and the Flash. I only consider it white washing if they use the same exact back story, then cast a white person. That is not what they did.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Sakura12

[Proteus]

I don't see any evidence Sara is popular outside this forum.

They would've been better not white washing White Canary and casting a decent actress who has a broader appeal.

Sara has a huge fanbase. Everywhere.

White Canary was not whitewashed and Caity Lotz is a good actress.

[dtissagirl]

The other thing is announcing Caity Lotz as an unidentified character. That one just makes me laugh. Like, who the hell else would she be? Unless they were maybe considering a Shado - Mei situation. Sara's lost twin. Or maybe snatching her doppelganger ancestor on one of the trips back in time.

 

There was A LOT of spec about this, but looking back now, it probably means they secured a contract with Caity Lotz before DC Comics gave them the clear on using the White Canary name.

[jaytee1812]

Why did they give the character the same name? Why not create a new character? It's not the first time they've white washed a character, it's never acceptable.

Sara has a huge fanbase. Everywhere.

White Canary was not whitewashed and Caity Lotz is a good actress.

All those things are subjective.

Caity Lotz is typical of the dumb, compliant women men like to promote they don't get challenged. See also Heather Morris on Glee.

[Velocity23]

My bet is Geoff Johns wanted Caity back as Canary.

[Sakura12]

They didn't give her the same name. The White Canary in the comics was never given a name. The hero name is a title. 

 

Green Lantern

Hal Jordon

John Stewart 

Guy Garner

Kyle Rayner

 

The Flash

Jay Garrick

Barry Allen

Bart Allen

Wally West

 

And for her it would be

 

White Canary

Unnamed Character

Sara Lance

Edited November 27, 2015 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

They wanted to keep the Canary name for her. Should they have created a whole new Canary instead?  Red Canary?  (Aresenal Speedy and Flash are already in red.)  Yellow Canary?  Accusations of racism.  Grey Canary?  Possibly.

 

Hawkgirl, who should be Mideastern, is part African.  Maybe we can call it a draw.

 

I think the two people who are safe are Ray because he's played by BR (and the show's format gives him reasons to take time outs to make movies) and Sara because they went to so much trouble to bring her back.

 

 

February - LoT announced, orignal casting notices include Ray/ATOM, Stein/Firestorm (minus Ronnie), Cold and Heatwave and Caity Lotz as an unidentified character.

That makes so much sense and explains that ridiculous panel of masks and costumes.  And why it never occurred to Berlanti to put Katrina Law/Nyssa on it too.

.

My personal opinion is that the original intent was to put Black Canary/Laurel in the new LoT spin-off. However Black Canary didn't go over like gang busters at TCAs, in fact the EP's ended spending more time defending the choice of only masks and only Black Canary in the panel (to the press). Hell, Berlanti even fell on his sword over the decision but, I never felt the writers only believed Masks were important or that BC was the only female hero worth displaying. I've always maintained TCA Winter Panel was about proving LoT could work as a spin-off.

That's an interesting thought, that the original plan was to have Laurel be the one to move over on to LoT. It certainly would have solved a lot of problems for them.
It's interesting to speculate what both shows would have looked like then.
 

Would the campaign alone have saved Sara? Nope. Would Sara be alive now if the press and fans at TCA embraced Laurel/Black Canary? I don't think so (personally)

I agree.

 

I don't know if it was that she was killed...or that she was killed to set up Laurel's BC arc. A combo of both I'm sure but I do think if she was just killed for Thea's arc (since ultimately that's what came of it)...maybe not such a huge backlash?

I think Thea unfortunately was the least important person in that decision.  Laurel first, Malcolm second, Oliver maybe third and Thea coming up fourth. They also used it to push Felicity on to Palmer Island but that was of less importance.

Edited November 27, 2015 by statsgirl

[GreatAtBoats]

Dinah took on the White Canary mantle in the comics briefly. In the very same story where White Canary was introduced. Did Gail Simone whitewash her own character?

Never mind that many people consider the comics White Canary to be a racist stereotype.
 

Caity Lotz is typical of the dumb, compliant women men like to promote they don't get challenged. See also Heather Morris on Glee.

On what are you basing this? I don't have this impression of her at all.

[nksarmi]

I don't see any evidence Sara is popular outside this forum.

They would've been better not white washing White Canary and casting a decent actress who has a broader appeal.

 

Go check out Facebook - Sara/Caity has a huge following.  One of the reasons I registered here long after most of TWOP migrated here was because I finally got tired of reading endless - and I mean endless - Sara vs Laurel arguments on Facebook anytime I clicked on something related to Arrow.  I also saw Felicity called a few names that didn't set well with me when she started dating Ray so I knew I had to find a more courteous forum stat.

 

At any rate, I saw a lot of outrage over them killing Sara, ranging from people being angry they killed a bisexual female superhero to people who just liked her being pissed she was taken out like that.  Plus there was a large negative backlash for the appearance that they killed her just to make Laurel BC and I think that seriously hurt Laurel/KC's transition into the role.  And again, I say that based on what I've seen on FB and the comment sections on several articles - not just here.  Sure, angry Internet fans aren't ALL fans, but I think it's telling that Flash rated higher than Arrow in season three and I think Sara's death was at least a part of that.

[Chaser]

SDCC - If you want to see if Sara was popular outside of this forum watch the focus and attention she gets from the audience. There is a lot of love there and that is a crowd the network listens too.

[Sakura12]

I guess we should feel really important on this forum, since we are solely responsible for getting Sara back on the show. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by Sakura12

[jaytee1812]

I assumed it was the writers intention all along.

[FurryFury]

If it were, they wouldn't just kill her off. It's clear that the resurrection arc wasn't planned all along and has only been realized due to CL/SL's popularity.

[AyChihuahua]

Two things surprise me in this account. They were talking about Barry in the summer before S2 even though he only appeared in episode 8? Wow. I mean I loved 2x08 and 2x09 and Barry in them, and it makes sense due to the spin-off but somehow it still surprised me. The other thing is announcing Caity Lotz as an unidentified character. That one just makes me laugh. Like, who the hell else would she be? Unless they were maybe considering a Shado - Mei situation. Sara's lost twin. Or maybe snatching her doppelganger ancestor on one of the trips back in time.

Theapplefour was all over social media and comments sections that he/she was POSITIVE Caity was going to play a totally different character than Sara Lance.  Even after it was announced she'd be the "White Canary."  So...yeah.

[Morrigan2575]

I guess we should feel really important on this forum, since we are solely responsible for getting Sara back on the show.

Go Us!

[kismet]

I don't see any evidence Sara is popular outside this forum.

They would've been better not white washing White Canary and casting a decent actress who has a broader appeal.

 

I'm not a comics person, but even I take a little offense at the fact that it seems they might just be using the name & disregarding the whole backstory behind the White Canary.

Two things surprise me in this account. They were talking about Barry in the summer before S2 even though he only appeared in episode 8? Wow. I mean I loved 2x08 and 2x09 and Barry in them, and it makes sense due to the spin-off but somehow it still surprised me. The other thing is announcing Caity Lotz as an unidentified character. That one just makes me laugh. Like, who the hell else would she be? Unless they were maybe considering a Shado - Mei situation. Sara's lost twin. Or maybe snatching her doppelganger ancestor on one of the trips back in time.

I really think they were kicking around some different theories and then just went with the easiest solution. Personally, I'm disappointed they didn't do something a little more interesting and then seemed to settle for the simplest name closest to her original name. It seems a little lame. But perhaps they will have something exciting to explain it all once they start the series.

[nksarmi]

Plus Caity said she thought she was done on the shows after her contractual episodes for season three.  She seemed delighted and surprised to be asked to be part of LoT.  And I don't know why you don't like her personally, but in every interview I've seen of her - she seems delightful.  I've actually taken to avoiding interviews with KC because she has said some things that just sound dumb and I really don't want KC to negatively color Laurel for me - Laurel has enough challenges as is.

[jaytee1812]

Clear to who? No-one knows what's in the imagination of a writer.

[Sakura12]

It's only white washing to me if they had used the comic White Canary's backstory, being the only girl born to an Asian family with 12 brothers, then cast a white actress to play an Asian character. 

 

Avatar the Last Airbender was white washing to it's fullest. Asian characters in Asia like place played by white actors. Changing the name and back story makes it a different character in my mind. The characters first and last name are theirs, the hero name is a title that can be used by other people. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

She's only White Canary to contrast to her sister's Black. She's not the comic book character. Give it a break.

[wonderwall]

IDk... White Canary is just a name. Everything else is completely different so I don't see that as whitewashing. Now if Sara had a similar background, personality traits, and/or destiny/reputation as White Canary in the comics, then that would be whitewashing... But that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Hell, Matt Nable being Ra's All Ghul is considered more whitewashing than anything else... 

Edited November 27, 2015 by wonderwall

[tarotx]

Caity and Heather are great dancers. Other than that common skill I don't get why you brought Heather into this conversation?

Edited December 2, 2015 by tarotx

[jaytee1812]

Caity and Heather are great dancers. Other than that common skill I don't get why you brought Heather into this conversatiom?

I just thought they were similar. compliant, pretty,and easy to work with.

Doesn't break many glass ceilings.

[nksarmi]

I just thought they were similar. compliant, pretty,and easy to work with.

Doesn't break many glass ceilings.

 

Hmmm last I checked, being pretty is something you are born with and it certainly doesn't aide patriarchy.  I don't think being unattractive fights patriarchy at any rate.

 

Being "easy to work with" is generally considered a plus in any line of work - for a man or woman.  I work in the career management industry and I assure people don't want to put "difficult to get along with" on their resumes rather its true or not.

 

Finally, I have NO idea how we know a person is compliant or not.  I mean professionally, Caity is either hired or not hired.  She is given material to work with and perhaps she can ask for changes, but I doubt she is in a place in her career - up until this point - for that to go well.  Now that she is basically the female lead on an assemble show who happens to bring a decent fan following with her, she might have some say in her character - but she still needs to be someone who takes direction well and all that - otherwise, she'd be considered unprofessional.  And generally speaking, being unprofessional doesn't break any glass ceilings either.

 

Now, I DO think the fact that Caity is trained is different forms of martial arts, in extremely good physical condition, and can do her own stunts does put her in position to be a role model for empowered women.  Furthermore, BR has joked that he and Caity were going to see who could do more rungs on the salmon ladder and he says this as a man who has no expectation that he can outdo her.  Talk about advancing male/female equality!

 

Plus, do you have any idea how much difficult it is for a woman to do that kind of upper body work out than it is for a man?  It's been awhile since I was familiar with military fitness standards, but I can tell you that when I was in high school considering a military scholarship to college - women were not expected to do chin ups at all.  Instead women were expected to get into the same position and "hang" for a minimum period of time.  For Caity to be able to match BR in that kind of exercise means she is in amazing physical condition - not just a pretty face.

[tarotx]

So this is because Caity agreed to wear the more traditional bustier corset BC costume?

[bijoux]

Theapplefour was all over social media and comments sections that he/she was POSITIVE Caity was going to play a totally different character than Sara Lance.  Even after it was announced she'd be the "White Canary."  So...yeah.

Who's Theapplefour?

[wonderwall]

Fandom talk alert! No need to bring out ragey baby!

[GreatAtBoats]

Despite saying they planned to bring her back at that Paley Center event in June, Kreisberg was quoted in TV Guide's SDCC special saying that when it came time to choose the roster for LOT, they thought, "What if we bring back Sara?"

At the WBTV panel at NYCC, the crowd went nuts every time Sara was shown or mentioned.

She's even popular on comic book-oriented sites like Comic Book Resources.

As for Caity, it was clear at SDCC this year that she gives no fucks (rolling her eyes at the Thea-killed-Sara story, complaining about the gender ratio on LOT both in terms of female representation in general as well as how it affects the portrayal of Sara's bisexuality, joking that she'd like to see Batman and Superman kill each other because her tenure on Arrow desensitized her to that sort of thing, smacking Guggenheim in the chest when suggesting Sara expand her arsenal of weapons, etc.), and her Twitter activity does the same.

She seems to be very much about representation and female empowerment and friendship.

So this is because Caity agreed to wear the more traditional bustier corset BC costume?

And even that, she pushed to change the moment she had any sort of leverage.

[statsgirl]

Doesn't break many glass ceilings.

Lack of power/status doesn't break glass ceilings. If you push when you're as low on the totem pole as CL was on Arrow, all you get is fired.

 

The only female actor on Arrow who might legitimately pushed for changes is Katie Cassidy.  Maybe EBR now, but CL was  hired for one season to play a disposable character.  She wasn't going to be breaking any glass ceilings no matter how hard she pushed.

[BkWurm1]

I kind of hope they keep LoT a spring premiere running 13 episodes non-stop because I suspect it will always feel like a tighter, more exciting show that way.

 

Didn't we hear that LoT is getting 16 episodes?

 

 

 

If you go back to the very early pages of this thread you'll see a ton of speculation about CL character, very few people felt that she would be Sara resurrected via LP. The biggest argument given against that option was that it would totally invalidate Laurel's journey and the show would never do that. Many felt she would be an AU Sara, a Clone Sara, an Android that looks like Sara, a Sara that was pulled out of time by Rip Hunter right before her death and would ultimately go back to face her death at the end of LoT series, etc.

 

At the time it did seem like it would be too good to be true to actually get the Real Sara back but even as all those speculations were made, most everyone agreed what we wanted most was OUR Sara back.  (And Rip going back in time only to put her back in the time stream to die later was a worst case option for most.  I hate even now hearing it put out in the world, lol.)    As horribly as they did Sara's return, I am so glad that they had no intentions on making her a different character than the one we know.

 

Sara, like Laurel, really did originally get stuck with a terrible backstory.  I think some still hold her bad choices against her but she was even younger and more naïve than Oliver so I have no problem forgiving and forgetting. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Julie335]

She seems to be very much about representation and female empowerment and friendship.

 

I'm relatively new to Arrow so I don't know much about the history of the fans' perceptions of the characters, but I quickly grew to like Sara / Canary. I could definitely see why they'd make her a more prominent character in a spin-off series. Now that I know more about the actress, I'm even more impressed.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Julie335