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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Iris reacted to Linda the same way she did to Becky Cooper in high school. And Patty she said "she's so great " in a very fake voice if that makes sense.

 

I was actually waiting for Iris to be/sound jealous about Patty, and I got nothing from her. She absolutely was jealous of Linda, though. I have no idea why they are failing so badly with Barry/Iris, well, other than these are terrible relationship writers, but I completely understand why people have bailed on the ship. 

 

I was always a huge fan of Linda Park/Wally West. Now, I don't know if I would want them to go that route because it's would start to get gross with all the swapping. Plus, I'm not even sure how old WW will be when/if he shows up. 

 

In short, once again, the Flarrowverse writers suck at writing healthy, organic, romantic relationships. What's worse is they clearly aren't learning from their past mistakes. 

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I was actually waiting for Iris to be/sound jealous about Patty, and I got nothing from her. She absolutely was jealous of Linda, though. I have no idea why they are failing so badly with Barry/Iris, well, other than these are terrible relationship writers, but I completely understand why people have bailed on the ship. 

 

I was always a huge fan of Linda Park/Wally West. Now, I don't know if I would want them to go that route because it's would start to get gross with all the swapping. Plus, I'm not even sure how old WW will be when/if he shows up. 

 

In short, once again, the Flarrowverse writers suck at writing healthy, organic, romantic relationships. What's worse is they clearly aren't learning from their past mistakes. 

The italics I absolutely agree with you esp when it comes to canon relationships & relationships that have a weekly presence & not just guest appearances. The exception right now being O&F.

 

Right now I'm okay with them putting the brakes on I/B, so I am excited that they are not having her jealous of Patty. I think it is healthy for the longevity & believability of the canon pairing to have IW & BA spend sometime being just friends and happy that their friend is trying to find happiness. The jealousy can come in a few seasons when they finally decide to commit to

the pairing.

 

I have no idea about the comic canon. But in the show, I do not think it would be considered swapping of anything considering that Wally West grew up completely separate from the Flash crew. People do date their friends exes and their long-lost sister's work colleagues. I do however, have no idea what there big plan is with Wally West and that concerns me more because I don't like the way they are having Iris handle her mother & possible brother (who may in all likelihood be WW). So I'm more leary they will mess up the entire arc.

Edited by kismet
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nksarmi

nksarmi

You know - I'm not sure the Flarrowverse writers have a hard time writing romantic relationships - they just can't write the process of getting couples together well.  They seem to do just fine when the couple is in the "friend zone" or established.  It's the process of getting together they fail miserably at I think.

 

Let's review:

 

Oliver and Laurel were a mess always - so I got nothing there

Oliver and Sara - have been good as lovers and friends

Oliver and Felicity - were only bad when the writers were trying to keep them apart in season three

 

Felicity and Barry - cute

Felicity and Ray - ok I know a lot of people hate this relationship, so I'm going to just let this be a bad example of "romance" but I think they work well as friends

Felicity and Oliver - once they are a couple - perfect

 

Diggle and Lyla - great couple

 

Thea and Roy - great couple, even when they weren't really a couple

 

Barry and Linda - they were cute even though you knew it wouldn't last

Barry and Felicity - cute as can be but you knew it wasn't going to happen

Barry and Patty - they are just trying to hard at this point

Barry and Iris - you can see how they would make a good couple someday, but it's painful to think about how the writers are going to get you there

 

Iris and Eddie - I thought they were a great couple - still sad he is dead

 

Caitlyn and Ronnie - I think they were fine as a couple, but they qualify as already established as far as I'm concerned

Caitlyn and Jay - getting painful to watch

 

Bottom line - I think the shows fair better with couples in established relationships than ones that are trying to get there....

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kismet

kismet

That's insightful @nksarmi. They do seem better when writing a couple or a friendship... it's when the relationship is in transition from one to the other that they really struggle.

 

That's why I'm pissed that I missed seeing the developing stages of O&F during both summer hiatuses, but part of me is kinda happy that those stories were left to fan fic writers who seem to have a better pen for romance & beliavable/digestible angst.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Right now I'm okay with them putting the brakes on I/B, so I am excited that they are not having her jealous of Patty. I think it is healthy for the longevity & believability of the canon pairing to have IW & BA spend sometime being just friends and happy that their friend is trying to find happiness. The jealousy can come in a few seasons when they finally decide to commit to the pairing

 

I don' t mind waiting for them to go for Iris and Barry romantically but I do wish that right now they'd pay more attention to their friendship.  It really does need more time in the spotlight, if only to justify Barry's feelings last season.  I so want to see WHY I should root for them.  I got that with Oliver and Felicity.  I saw how they were apart and saw how they were together and IMO they were better together.

 

With Iris and Barry, they seem fine as is. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Joe doesn't know about Wally's existence so his wife must have had the baby 7 months after she left.  I think I remember that being 15 years ago, although I could be wrong, so Wally would be 14 years younger then Iris.

 

Iris crushing on The Flash last season made it worse because she was hung up on the image, not the actual man. 

 

 

How exactly? Because she thinks he's great and deserving of a great girl? That's basically half the battle. "I love you and I like you"

No, because she was attracted to The Flash in all his mystery and hero glory but not to Barry who is the real guy rather than the myth.  Except for a brief moment when she seemed like she wanted to tank  Barry's relationship with Linda, she hasn't been jealous or shown any sign that she wanted Barry for herself.

 

In contrast Felicity was crushing on Oliver the man long before she knew that he was The Hood.  Iris acts like Barry is the brother she calls him.

 

Well she couldn't just drop Eddie after making the commitment to move in just cause Barry came clean.
Why would she dump Eddie after finding out Barry was the Flash?
And she got back with Eddie out of a bit of stubbornness. A "no one can decide my fate"...and it'd be silly to be "Barry I'm with you because of a newspaper in the future that an evil speedster possessed ". But notice Thawne still existed..his existence was dependent on Eddie NOT ending with Iris.

If Iris were attracted to Barry (Flash or foster brother), dropping Eddie would been the honest thing to do when he told her that he had feelings for her.  At the very least, if she had any romantic feelings for Barry, she should have put moving in with Eddie on hold.  What happened on the show is that Barry told her his feelings, she was taken aback, and then she moved in happily with Eddie.

 

It would be silly to deny herself the guy she wanted because of a newspaper article from the future so she didn't.  But that means that Eddie was the guy she wanted to be with, not Barry.

 

They've really screwed themselves with that because even if she does end up with Barry now, he'll be second best because the guy she wanted, Eddie, died.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Joe doesn't know about Wally's existence so his wife must have had the baby 7 months after she left.  I think I remember that being 15 years ago, although I could be wrong, so Wally would be 14 years younger then Iris.

 

Just double checked.  Joe says it's been twenty years since Iris's mom left. And I think Iris knew her mom more from pictures than anything, though the story Joe tells of right before her mom left, is Iris being old enough to call 911 and say her mom had taken pills and wouldn't wake up.  But Iris doesn't remember that soo...  How old is Iris supposed to be right now?

Edited by BkWurm1
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wingster55

wingster55

"o, because she was attracted to The Flash in all his mystery and hero glory but not to Barry who is the real guy rather than the myth. Except for a brief moment when she seemed like she wanted to tank Barry's relationship with Linda, she hasn't been jealous or shown any sign that she wanted Barry for herself."

Flash is Barry at his most confident and free. So it's not a duality thing.

She stayed with Eddie because she's loyal and believes she has to honor her commitment.

And she's never viewed Barry as a brother. Or called him that except semi once in the pilot. As we know not everything in a pilot is seen in the rest if the show.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

It's kind of difficult not to hold onto that line though, considering it was the very first comment we got from Iris about how she feels towards Barry. Even if you don't believe that she sees him as a brother, if you're a guy with feelings for a girl, and she says you're like brother and sister, even if she immediately follows that up by clarifying that you aren't actually brother and sister? That means she has zero romantic feelings for you. Negative romantic feelings for you, if that's possible. She basically sees you as a living, breathing Ken doll - completely void of any sort of parts below the waist.

It's not the thing that ships are made of, which is why some people just don't see it. Personally, I don't care. If Iris ever gets to the point where she wants him romantically, I hope she gets that.

Edited by apinknightmare
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Wally will be about 20 going by Joe's story. Iris was about 6 when her mom left. And then there is the fact that the actors who portray Linda and Wally are pretty much the same age (1991 babies). So even with Wally younger it won't look awkward.

Edited by tarotx
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statsgirl

statsgirl

And I think Iris knew her mom more from pictures than anything, though the story Joe tells of right before her mom left, is Iris being old enough to call 911 and say her mom had taken pills and wouldn't wake up. 

 

It's strange -- I don't mind parallel Earths or time travel but the idea that Iris' mother was taking drugs while she was pregnant really bothers me.

 

Flash is Barry at his most confident and free. So it's not a duality thing.

She stayed with Eddie because she's loyal and believes she has to honor her commitment.

I think where we're disagreeing here is how we perceive her staying with Eddie after Barry tells her that he loves her.  I think you see it as a good thing that she's honoring a previous commitment whereas I see it as evidence that she doesn't see Barry the way he saw her because it would be a bad thing on her part to move in with Eddie when she has romantic feelings for Barry.  It's not like she's been married to Eddie for years and they have children and it would hurt a number of people if she went to her true love Barry.  She's just starting out with Eddie and I think it would dishonest to both men to move in with one when she had feelings for the other.

 

She doesn't seem to be sexually attracted to Barry now even though she knows he's the Flash.  So what the show is telling me is that she was attracted to The Flash but now that she knows he's Barry, it's back to  sibling affection again.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

It's strange -- I don't mind parallel Earths or time travel but the idea that Iris' mother was taking drugs while she was pregnant really bothers me

 

It's had me concerned as well.  Alcohol is bad enough but who knows what kind of pills she was taking for at least the first two months of his life. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Andrew Kreisberg on Supergirl, Superman, Fan Theories and More
Russ Burlingame- 11/16/2015
http://comicbook.com/2015/11/15/andrew-kreisberg-on-supergirl/

As always, we kind of look at the totality of the work. I mean, we read Supergirl comics from the '50s and the '60s where all she was is man crazy. There's even bits we've cherry-picked from the movie. Just like with Arrow and just like The Flash, Arrow isn't a direct adaptation of The Longbow Hunters and The Flash isn't a direct adaptation of Rebirth. We sort of cherry pick parts from every era and throw them into the grinder with our own ideas, and what comes out is what you see.
*  *  *
The truth of the matter is, I think that people would love to believe there's this antagonism between us and DC but the fact is, they've opened up their playbook to us in ways that we'd never imagined and certainly never thought of when we were starting Arrow and it was just Oliver Queen. Now there's this universe with four different shows and a bunch of different characters and we really are excited with all of the ones we get to do.
 

We certainly check out the comics -- especially Green Arrow and The Flash, but it's more like, is there a cool idea in there? Is there a cool name? Do they introduce some businessman that we can introduce on the show? Again, we always try to introduce this crazy melange of including something from The Longbow Hunters or from Kevin Smith's run, or including something from a more recent run. We want it to feel like it belongs to the entirety of Green Arrow, and the entirety of The Flash. Now we're getting the opportunity to draw from the entirety of Supergirl's comic book adventures. There's always one little bit that somebody loves from some era.
*  *  *
I think the one thing that The Flash taught us, that we were certainly a little more cautious of in the beginning with Arrow is to really embrace what this thing is. The Flash is The Flash. As Geoff Johns said to me once, "This is the most DC DC thing that there's ever been." It's got time travel and the Reverse Flash and Grodd and Captain Cold. It is the comic book come to life, and we didn't learn that lesson as early on on Arrow. Once we had Deathstroke on in the second season, we started to embrace that....

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

Ezra Miller on how his The Flash will differ from The CW's version
BY JAMES HIBBERD   November 16 2015 — 1:47 PM EST
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/13/ezra-miller-flash-justice-league

“Well, [first] it’s going to be a movie,” he said. “I’d like for it to be an exploration of a human being, a multi-dimensional human being, to speak.” Miller pauses. “Wow, I just made such a pun, without meaning to!” he says, referring to The Flash’s parallel universe storyline in the comics. Miller continues: “I’d like the character to have many dimensions. But really, I’d like him to have the usual dimensions we know and love, and then some extra ones that are part of the amazing consideration of this superhero. I hope to realize him as a person, and I think what’s most exciting for me in superhero mythologies is when we feel the humanity of someone who is heroic — or the heroism of someone who is a flawed, deeply human person.”
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I don't know how i feel about Ezra Miller as the Flash, from his description he could be describing any character. I don't get the feeling he really knows or cares about the comic Flash. Although this is the DC movie verse where Superman is a hopeless, mopey, destructive, murderer. So we'll probably get dark, mopey Flash. 

Edited by Sakura12
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

I don't know how i feel about Ezra Miller as the Flash, from his description he could be describing any character. I don't get the feeling he really knows or cares about the comic Flash. Although this is the DC movie verse where Superman is a hopeless, mopey, destructive, murderer. So we'll probably get dark, mopey Flash.

Of course you'll see a dark, mopey Flash. This is the WB/DC movie verse...dark is all they know. I, too, never thought they'd find a way to make Superman depressing, but there it is.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Well I had read that they were going to make a "dark" version of Superman prior to seeing Man of Steel so I was bracing myself for whatever the heck that meant - as a result, I came away liking the movie more or less.  It just needed about 30 minutes of content trimmed.  And I say this as someone who really enjoys long movies, but the final fight with General Zod just went on and on and on....  And while I do feel some chemistry between Superman and Louis, that kiss was unnecessary, badly placed, and almost made me want to boo.  A kiss between two iconic characters should not make me feel like that.

 

Hmmm I guess this generation of movie DC makers have a problem writing relationships as well, because I have to say that I never liked or cared about any of Batman's love interests in the Nolan movies.  I thought Michael Keaton and Michelle Phiffer popped, sparkled, and sizzled on screen back in the 90s.  I got nothing from Bale and Hathaway and I liked both those actors a lot.  Oh well, I guess that won't matter as much in the Justice League movies but it's kind of shame that I don't really anticipate any well-done romantic pairings out of any of those movies.  Though it does make me view the TV romances in a slightly better light! :)

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

Cisco's vibe?

Yes.  Costume looks cheesy and I'm not sure the actress is all that great.  (I get that it's very early days for her, I'm just saying, she doesn't seem to be awesome out of the gate.)

 

Oh look, Barry's got the yips.  Just like Oliver in 1.10.

 

Oh good lord at Caitlin's Fay Wray outfit.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Barry is just so depressing this year. And this from someone who loves a moody Oliver. I usually have a soft spot for depressed people. But really BA needs to get it together. He's just so sad. You would think that kissing Patty or having his father come back after randomly abandoning him would up his mood. He's just so Meh.

 

And this new Wells is just a cheap knockoff of his old self. Also we got confirmation that Iris sees Joe as Barry's Dad. So take that as whatever you want. And we got a shout out to Joe missing a son he doesn't even know exists.

 

In your eyes - really? This is so fake cheesy... It's like Velveeta

Edited by kismet
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Cisco gave her his heart, and she gave him a pen!

Isn't that from a John Cusack movie? I swear I can see him saying it in head but I can't figure out what movie it's from.

ETA: Say Anything...I should have remembered that one right away.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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KirkB

KirkB

I may be in the minority but I really like Grodd. Yes, a giant telepathic gorilla is utterly ridiculous but so is a man running at the speed of sound. The more over the top comic book it is the more there is to enjoy as far as I'm concerned. I can understand why that isn't for everyone.

 

Of course Henry was the key to helping Barry. No matter how close he is to Joe or Iris, Henry is all that is left of his real family.

 

Why did Cisco run off when he vibed the winged figure the first time? I get him being a little freaked but in Central City a winged metahuman is actually not the strangest thing they have encountered. At least the second time I guess he was excited about the fact his new girlfriend might be a meta too. 

 

That was Gorilla City, right? Or at least the Earth 2 version?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I really like Grodd, which means that I hate how The Flash treats him.  Shouldn't someone have checked that there really were other apes where they sent him? Poor, poor Grodd.

 

I'm glad it was Henry who helped Barry in the end.  Because dammit, he's Barry's father and those years were stolen from him!

 

Supergirl got a 1.8 last night, up 0.1 from last week.

 

But fewer viewers.  Why are they happy? (I know, only ratings count.)

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

I really like Grodd, which means that I hate how The Flash treats him.  Shouldn't someone have checked that there really were other apes where they sent him? Poor, poor Grodd.

 

 

Grodd does an excellent woobie face.  I was very happy that Caitlin cared about him.  Annoyed that Barry was hailed as the hero when Grodd's hope in Caitlin is was really the only reason they were able to send him away.

 

About where they sent him.  That jungle, that was still Central City, wasn't it?  I swear I saw Star Labs in the background.  Does that mean that Grodd didn't go to E2 but to the Planet of the Apes? 

Edited by BkWurm1
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Grodd does an excellent woobie face.  I was very happy that Caitlin cared about him.  Annoyed that Barry was hailed as the hero when Grodd's hope in Caitlin is was really the only reason they were able to send him away.

 

About where they sent him.  That jungle, that was still Central City, wasn't it?  I swear I saw Star Labs in the background.  Does that mean that Grodd didn't go to E2 but to the Planet of the Apes? 

 

ParaWells said something about the breaches in Earth-Two being all over the planet instead of being concentrated in one city like original Earth. I've seen references to Gorilla City on Twitter. And now I'm expecting an ape invasion sometime this season. Flash was really doing King Kong with Caitlin and Grodd, wasn't it? I mean, they even had Caitlin in white

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

ParaWells said something about the breaches in Earth-Two being all over the planet instead of being concentrated in one city like original Earth.

 

I remembered, I just wondered if maybe he'd lied and that a bunch of the breaches went to a bunch of different earths but then how come they could use so many different breaches to contact Zoom? 

 

I need not to think so hard about this.  The Flash never follows it's own science-y rules.  I shouldn't try to use any kind of logic. 

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bijoux

bijoux

Oh that's complete and total bullshit.

 

Well, not completely. This part certainly rings true:

 

“Arrow” Powers That Be thought Lauriver might work, despite the fact that Oliver had, from all accounts, been the worst boyfriend in the history of boyfriends.

I mean, he may not have been the actual worst, never saw Ollie torturing small animals, but he gave the guy who holds that title a run for his money.

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