Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[SmallScreenDiva]

No mention of a pre-emption in the reports so Supergirl is really down to 0.4 in its, what, 3rd season? Yikes.

[Morrigan2575]

Did people even know it was coming back? Honestly, I'm sure The CW expected it, you can't put a show on Hiatus and expect it to come back to the same numbers, especially as you move into Spring.

[lemotomato]

This was the second episode after their hiatus, though. If people tuned in last week, they should've tuned in this week too. 

[Starfish35]

Yep.  It coming back from hiatus down was not a surprise.  The 500,000+ viewer drop from last week to this week?  That's a bit perplexing.

[Lady Calypso]

Hopefully, numbers go back up next week and that way, I can count it as an outlier for the season.

[scarynikki12]

What are the delayed viewing numbers?  Flash, Arrow and LOT all have much higher delayed views than live views so I wouldn't be surprised if Supergirl's the same.  I think these numbers just show that it's not priority television for a lot of people anymore.  If they still have their audience and those viewers are just waiting for a better night then it may not be something they care about. 

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

What are the delayed viewing numbers?  Flash, Arrow and LOT all have much higher delayed views than live views so I wouldn't be surprised if Supergirl's the same.  I think these numbers just show that it's not priority television for a lot of people anymore.  If they still have their audience and those viewers are just waiting for a better night then it may not be something they care about. 

I hope so. It's just a very sudden and drastic drop after last week's preliminary numbers. I mean, Supergirl's ratings are in the top four highest for The CW, if not second behind The Flash (it's fourth in the demo). For it to have its numbers drop to the equivalent of Arrow's average ratings, and it's just a surprising change. 

[Sakura12]

Almost all the shows have a huge drop in viewers this season. I think that does show that watching tv live is a thing of the past. With so many different ways to watch now we can choose our tv schedule. We can just hope the networks understand this new normal and plan for that. They really should care more about the delayed viewing numbers that's more of an indicator if the show is being watched. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Sakura12

[Velocity23]

Supergirl ............................. 0.374 ... (0.381 ... 0.367)
iZombie ............................... 0.209 ... (0.220 ... 0.199)

[tv echo]

Early (spoiler-free) twitter reactions from media are generally positive - go to article links if you want to read media tweets (actual reviews will probably be published starting tonight or tomorrow)...

First ‘Infinity War’ Reactions Praise a Gutsy, Flawed Epic with One of Marvel’s Best Endings
BY HALEIGH FOUTCH      APRIL 23, 2018
http://collider.com/avengers-infinity-war-reviews/

Avengers: Infinity War reactions are in and it's 'jaw-dropping' and 'epic'
CLAIRE REILLY  APRIL 24, 2018 8:42 AM PDT
https://www.cnet.com/news/avengers-infinity-war-early-twitter-social-verdicts-review-epic-beyond-compare/

Edited April 24, 2018 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

14 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Supergirl ............................. 0.374 ... (0.381 ... 0.367)
iZombie ............................... 0.209 ... (0.220 ... 0.199)

Ouch!  What was going on last night? 

Was everyone watching the Infinity War red carpet live stream? Lol. ;)

[tv echo]

(source)

Edited April 24, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Our Favorite TV Superheroes Ranked
BY K. THOR JENSEN 04.24.2018
https://www.geek.com/comics/tv-superheroes-ranked-1737721/

Quote

13. Legends Of Tomorrow
The CW’s goofiest superhero program is sometimes also its most fun, dipping deep into the snuff that is DC’s eternally complicated multiversal timeline. Time Master Rip Hunter recruits a motley crew of heroes and villains to protect the future from catastrophe, which leads to a lot of one-and-done episodes where the team travels to a famous historical event. It’s sort of like Quantum Leap with spandex. That means that on a show-by-show basis it can be frustratingly uneven. The highs are fun and impressive, but the lows will make you wonder why you even bother watching it.
*  *  *
12. The Flash
CW’s second superhero show hit the ground running as a backdoor pilot on Arrow, and The Flash is the perfect superhero junk food: it’s entertaining while you’re watching it but leaves you unsatisfied at the end of the episode. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, and the show has plenty to recommend it – the rapport between the lead actors is fun, the dedication the showrunners have to digging through the DC universe and the Flash’s legendary rogues’ gallery is solid, and episodes are properly brisk. On the downside, multiple time travel and alternate universe shenanigans kind of suck any dramatic weight out of Barry’s heroics, but if you don’t think about it a lot you’ll have a good time.
*  *  *
11. Black Lightning
You may have noticed that all of the CW’s DC universe shows are sort of clumped together in the middle of this list. That’s because they belong there. None of them have done anything truly exceptional with the format, but at least Black Lightning is trying. Not a part of the overarching Arrowverse, it follows Jefferson Pierce, who hung up his superheroic identity years ago to settle down and raise a family. When his kids get pulled into gang violence, he has to go back on the promise he made and take up the cowl once more. Black Lightning works because it’s not caught up in the crossover madness of the other CW shows, instead of slowing down and taking the time to really explore its characters and relationships.
*  *  *
10. Arrow
The show that started it all for the CW, Arrow seemed like a longshot at best when it premiered. Taking one of DC’s most dependable C-listers in Green Arrow and reinventing him for the 21st century, Oliver Queen is a spoiled Starling City scion who is shipwrecked on a deserted island and returns five years later hardened by the experience and pledges to clean up his hometown. The show pushed the “super” part of superheroics to the backburner, portraying Oliver as deeply human and very flawed. Over the course of six seasons, it’s lost the plot a little bit, but the first two are still solid and the fifth one was a return to form. Now that Oliver is mayor (spoilers), it remains to be seen how much more juice they can squeeze out of the concept.
*  *  *
4. Supergirl
Bringing DC’s Kryptonian heroes to the small screen is a tough proposition – when you have a protagonist who can do nearly anything, it stretches both the effects budget and the audience’s credulity. But Supergirl, which debuted on CBS before moving to the CW to join its Arrowverse brethren, skirts this issue with aplomb. Kara Zor-El is the Man of Steel’s cousin, sent to Earth to protect Kal as a teenager but accidentally trapped in the Phantom Zone for a quarter-century. Now she’s out and using her abilities as a superheroine. Supergirl works as well as it does because it walks the tightrope between “villain of the week” stories and an overarching narrative with confidence, folding in the greater DC universe without being dependent on continuity.

16. Iron Fist
15. Inhumans
14. Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.
13. Legends Of Tomorrow
12. The Flash
11. Black Lightning
10. Arrow
9. The Gifted
8. The Punisher
7. The Tick
6. Runaways
5. Luke Cage
4. Supergirl
3. Daredevil
2. Jessica Jones
1. Legion

Edited April 24, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Posting here because of Siren X discussion (artcle correction: Siren X is popping up on Flash, not Arrow) - eh, not sure I agree with the argument made below, based on the criticism made below...

How We’d Envision a “Black Siren” Standalone Show or Movie 
Nat Berman  April 24, 2018
https://www.tvovermind.com/tv-news/wed-envision-black-siren-standalone-show-movie

Quote

Still, there seems to be something of a fascination with the character from certain segments of the fandom. As a result, it can be fun to speculate about potential standalones centered around Black Siren. Certainly, the chances of such are not particularly high, but brainstorming about it can serve as an exercise in creativity if nothing else.

Currently, there seems to be an effort to redeem Black Siren in some manner, which has not been executed that well. First, the problem is that Black Siren doesn’t actually seem to have a lot of qualms about what she is doing on a regular basis. There was one recent moment when she seemed to show a moment of hesitation when a man was burned to death, but that reaction was undermined by her involvement in various other villainous acts over the course of the season. Second, there is an irritating insistence on the part of Quentin Lance that there must be some good in Black Siren, which makes sense from an in-character perspective but has some potentially problematic implications from a narrative perspective because that undermines the character’s agency.

To solve these problems, one simple and straightforward solution would be having Black Siren meet her counterpart from Earth X, who will be popping up in Arrow. In short, the idea would be that the Earth X Laurel Lance is worse than her Earth Two counterpart by a significant margin, which would work because she is the one who comes from a timeline in which the Nazis won World War 2. As a result, Black Siren gets a good look at how far down her chosen path can lead, which causes her to question her choices out of disgust. This in turn, causes her to turn on her current allies, thus fitting into the efforts to redeem her while still ensuring that she is the one who is actually making the choices that make the narrative move forward.

Moreover, if it is necessary, such a scenario could set up other plotlines as well. Simply put, redemption isn’t simple and straightforward, meaning that there is room for stories about making amends as much as possible, stories about struggling with old habits in light of new aspirations, and stories about moving forward in a world that has essentially been turned upside down. Granted, the chances of a Black Siren standalone are not exactly high, but on the whole, making one seems like a natural flow from what has preceded it.

Edited April 24, 2018 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

I think the bigger question is what would they even do with Black Siren if they redeemed her? They already have a BC with the exact same power. They don't need 2 of them. I think that would mean they would get rid of her, either send her back to Earth 2 or make her final redemption dying to save Team Arrow. I would think her fans would rather her stay bad so she has a better chance of continuing on the show. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I would think her fans would rather her stay bad so she has a better chance of continuing on the show. 

From what I've seen, a lot of them seem to think that redeeming her would be the first step toward getting her back as Black Canary - either by killing Dinah off or her leaving town. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Ouch!  What was going on last night? 

Was everyone watching the Infinity War red carpet live stream? Lol. ;)

The weather since this weekend has been shockingly nice after a very drawn out winter. (This weekend it was in the 60's while just the weekend before here in MN we got a foot of snow dumped on us.)  I'm guessing just wanting to be outside played a big part of the numbers drop.  If it did, then the numbers should be down for the rest of the week as well, though maybe not as much as the work week grinds on.  

[statsgirl]

45 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Currently, there seems to be an effort to redeem Black Siren in some manner, which has not been executed that well.

Or they're not really serious about redeeming her, just teasing at it, and it's executing fine.

[lemotomato]

36 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I would think her fans would rather her stay bad so she has a better chance of continuing on the show

Her fans think that redemption is the key to BS reclaiming what they feel was LL’s rightful role, that both Dinah and Felicity will get dropped from the show and future seasons will become GA with just BS-turned-BC as his partner with Roy as their sidekick. 

[tv echo]

TCA Summer Press Tour - tentative schedule...
http://tvcritics.org/press-tour-schedule-overview/

Quote

Press Tour Schedule Overview
Here is a working overview of the Summer 2018 Press Tour Schedule….

*TENTATIVE. ALL DATES SUBJECT TO CHANGE*

July 25 – CTAM
July 26 – CTAM
July 27 – CTAM
July 28 – CTAM
July 29 – CTAM
July 30 – PBS
July 31 – PBS
August 1 – Studio Day/Set Visits
August 2 – FOX/FX
August 3 – FOX/FX
August 4 – TCA Business Meeting/TCA Awards
August 5 – CBS
August 6 – The CW/Showtime
August 7 – Disney-ABC
August 8 – NBC Universal

Edited April 24, 2018 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

Last night's ratings - finals

Last week's finals

Edited April 24, 2018 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

Black SIren wouldn't need to meet Siren-X to drive a point home. The writers have her taking over her doppelgangers life....that is enough story material right there just to have her see what people thought of a different version of herself. When Faith took over Buffys body in BTVS, it was the straw that broke the camels back. Seeing how people treated her, what it meant to be a hero. The Arrow writers are ignoring all of that with Siren being Laurel.  

[kes0704]

Quote

To solve these problems, one simple and straightforward solution would be having Black Siren meet her counterpart from Earth X, who will be popping up in Arrow.

Uhmm, the possibility of two “Laurel’s” meeting each other on Arrow? That would be a firm “no thank you” from me. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by kes0704

[Primal Slayer]

Im just gonna say for right now...the Canary Cry effect on The Flash is 10x better then it is on Arrow.

[Starfish35]

So what is it that Siren-X is supposedly able to do that Black Siren can't? 

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Im just gonna say for right now...the Canary Cry effect on The Flash is 10x better then it is on Arrow.

Better special effects budget?

[Primal Slayer]

8 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

So what is it that Siren-X is supposedly able to do that Black Siren can't? 

Better special effects budget?

Open up dimensional breaches and use her Cry as a sonar effect to hear others.

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Open up dimensional breaches and use her Cry as a sonar effect to hear others.

Interesting.  Thanks.

[Primal Slayer]

And of course she was infatuated with Oliver-X lol. 

But I love seeing doppelgangers, they are fun. That's why my body is aching for LoT to do a whole season out of it!

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

And of course she was infatuated with Oliver-X lol. 

Lol @lemotomato called it.  Was she out for revenge?  Was she killed off or sent back?

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Lol @lemotomato called it.  Was she out for revenge?  Was she killed off or sent back?

She was one of the last remaining Nazi's not captured and wanted revenge for her regime. She was knocked out and thats the last we saw of her. I'm guessing Leo brought her back to E-X.

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Was she killed off or sent back?

No idea. They didn’t say (which could be how Cassidy stays in the ‘verse if Siren gets killed off). She followed Leo to Earth-1 to get revenge against those who defeated and killed Dark Arrow. 

Once again The Flash implies that Snart became heroic because of Barry. His character arc on LOT would disagree and so would the team. He wasn’t a hero he was a Legend! That’s how they roll. 

[lemotomato]

9 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Lol @lemotomato called it.  

They're so predictable, lol.

Also @Starfish35, you'll be happy to know that Cisco described Laurel as "the second BC after her sister Sara". 

3 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

She followed Leo to Earth-1 to get revenge against those who defeated and killed Dark Arrow. 

On every Earth, she wants him more than he wanted her. That's pretty pathetic.

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

Also @Starfish35, you'll be happy to know that Cisco described Laurel as "the second BC after her sister Sara".

Cisco my man!  You always were my favorite. :)

(not really, but for this moment....)

Edited April 25, 2018 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, lemotomato said:

On every Earth, she wants him more than he wanted her. That's pretty pathetic.

Well we don't know about E2! 

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Well we don't know about E2! 

Even if we believe the story BS told, her Oliver got on a boat with his dad and sailed away from her. 

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

They're so predictable, lol.

Also @Starfish35, you'll be happy to know that Cisco described Laurel as "the second BC after her sister Sara". 

On every Earth, she wants him more than he wanted her. That's pretty pathetic.

YES! I loved that. Bout time someone remembered that. Now I just need Arrow to remember her before she shows up. I’m half expecting Q (for arguments sake I’m assuming he’ll be alive though I still think he’s getting killed off) to not recognize her when she arrives. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, lemotomato said:

Even if we believe the story BS told, her Oliver got on a boat with his dad and sailed away from her. 

Who doesn't go on vacation? 

[Starfish35]

11 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

(which could be how Cassidy stays in the ‘verse if Siren gets killed off)

I can see it now.  BS gets killed/goes back to E2/otherwise exits, and next season it's Siren-X! Now with even more Evil! ROFL.  

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

I’m half expecting Q (for arguments sake I’m assuming he’ll be alive though I still think he’s getting killed off) to not recognize her when she arrives. 

"Laurel, is that you baby? You colored your hair!"

[BkWurm1]

32 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Open up dimensional breaches and use her Cry as a sonar effect to hear others.

I suppose they could have end up having BS figure out how to open breaches too and then send herself back to E2 but I liked it better when I thought she wouldn't be able to come back.  

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I can see it now.  BS gets killed/goes back to E2/otherwise exits, and next season it's Siren-X! Now with even more Evil! ROFL.  

But can she be redeemed!

[scarynikki12]

For clarification, SirenX didn’t open a breach but got to Cisco’s just as it was closing, stopped it before it finished, and used her cry to widen the opening. If she could breach then there was nothing stopping her from coming to E1, since she she was out for revenge and knew those who defeated Dark Arrow came from here. Now, why she ended up at a different place than Barry, Cisco, and Leo even though she went through the same breach mere moments later is a question I don’t have an answer to. 

[lemotomato]

I think it's pretty funny that they introduced Earth-X BS 5 months after the crossover, in a filler episode for different show. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

For clarification, SirenX didn’t open a breach but got to Cisco’s just as it was closing, stopped it before it finished, and used her cry to widen the opening. If she could breach then there was nothing stopping her from coming to E1, since she she was out for revenge and knew those who defeated Dark Arrow came from here. Now, why she ended up at a different place than Barry, Cisco, and Leo even though she went through the same breach mere moments later is a question I don’t have an answer to. 

Thanks for clarification because it looked like it had closed and then she screamed and it opened so I was confused and just went with it!

[Mrs. de Winter]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I can see it now.  BS gets killed/goes back to E2/otherwise exits, and next season it's Siren-X! Now with even more Evil! ROFL.  

Nope - I am sure evil Earth 2 BS will survive - after all Sarah is coming to Arrow to bond with her over Quentin's death.  Since there will be no reason for BS to stay in Star City without her fake daddy she will go with fake sis Sarah to LOT where she can be fully redeemed by the love of said same fake sister and use her screaming for good instead of evil.  The End.

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I think it's pretty funny that they introduced Earth-X BS 5 months after the crossover, in a filler episode for different show. 

I'm glad they at least introduced more outside of the ones they did since obviously she isn't a counterpart to the Big 3, of course they left her out. But I was wondering where all the other Nazi-baddies were during all of this.

[BkWurm1]

11 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

For clarification, SirenX didn’t open a breach but got to Cisco’s just as it was closing, stopped it before it finished, and used her cry to widen the opening. If she could breach then there was nothing stopping her from coming to E1, since she she was out for revenge and knew those who defeated Dark Arrow came from here. Now, why she ended up at a different place than Barry, Cisco, and Leo even though she went through the same breach mere moments later is a question I don’t have an answer to. 

3

Thank you very much for the clarification!  :D

[KenyaJ]

23 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I can see it now.  BS gets killed/goes back to E2/otherwise exits, and next season it's Siren-X! Now with even more Evil! ROFL.  

The bigger the evil, the bigger the redemption!

[insomniadreams88]

36 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

On every Earth, she wants him more than he wanted her. That's pretty pathetic.

I feel like it was also unnecessary here? They didn't have to say she had an unrequited thing for him. Could've simply made it about her wanting revenge against those who defeated the Earth-Xers in general. 

[Chaser]

At this point it’s like a running joke. 

[tennisgurl]

"But she could be redeemed! She looks exactly like Our Laurel who was the Very Greatest Hero! So what if shes a psychopathic Nazi, there must be good in her!"-Quentin Lance, certain internet fans who shall go nameless. 

I mean so desperate for someone to come back at Quentin rambling about Black Siren really being good with "oh, did I forget to tell you? We met a doppleganger of you too! He was a Nazi who ran a literal concentration camp and killed his version of Sara for being bisexual. Weird". 

Edited April 25, 2018 by tennisgurl