Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Velocity23]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

I'm sorry -  I'm being particularly dense today. :(  I'm not getting what you think is incorrect, other than that one pap's tweet saying that Legends would start filming in August.  Obviously that is not true - they did start filming in July.  So all the other sources that list production dates of July 6 - February 26 can be assumed to be correct, no?  What am I missing? 

Lol its not just one pap. The info came from a reputable source that lists all production times for BC. Why is one data more correct if they all came from the same source. 

[Proteus]

45 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I don't think it would make sense for LoT to have 17 episodes this year now that Black Lightning is slated to take its position in the spring. I honestly can't believe that CW would push BL out of the way like that right off the bat. It makes sense why they aired iZombie in April (its ratings aren't that great - and viewership really suffered by the CW pushing it back that far), but to not let a new series start with the rest of the shows is strange and unfair to Black Lightning which deserves a fighting chance. 

Unless I'm completely wrong and it's not going to take LoT's position on Tuesdays?

I have a hard time believing that Legends is going to be given a shorter season to make room for a new show that is an unknown commodity. Especially when Legends is coming off a season that got a lot of praise.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I have a hard time believing that Legends is going to be given a shorter season to make room for a new show that is an unknown commodity. Especially when Legends is coming off a season that got a lot of praise.

Because why start a new show if you have zero faith in it and don't give it a fighting chance and see where it goes? I get you love LoT but objectively this just makes no sense. If LoT has 17 episodes then it's likely they won't air BL in its slot. It'll likely take on Valor's spot as Starfish35 has pointed.

[Starfish35]

35 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Lol its not just one pap. The info came from a reputable source that lists all production times for BC. Why is one data more correct if they all came from the same source. 

I'm sorry, but I'm still confused. Whether it was one pap or every single one of them makes no difference.  Obviously they did not start filming in August.  They started filming July 6, which is what the production sheets say. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/882974450429288448

So what am I missing here? I'm sorry for being dense but I'm just not getting it.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Starfish35
Added link for tweet

[Proteus]

16 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Because why start a new show if you have zero faith in it and don't give it a fighting chance and see where it goes? I get you love LoT but objectively this just makes no sense. If LoT has 17 episodes then it's likely they won't air BL in its slot. It'll likely take on Valor's spot as Starfish35 has pointed.

Objectively, I think what you're saying makes no sense. I get that you don't care for LOT, but IMO, LOT is not going to be sidelined for Black Lightening. 

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Proteus said:

Objectively, I think what you're saying makes no sense. I get that you don't care for LOT, but IMO, LOT is not going to be sidelined for Black Lightening. 

LOL ok... Once again we can agree to disagree. If BL will be on Tuesdays it makes no sense to greenlight a show that the CW is going to actively be pushing to fail (which it will be if it airs BL in April). 

Again this is a big IF. You don't have to agree with me. I don't think LoT is as successful as you think it is - but then again it's all conjecture. 

[Proteus]

Yup. We'll never agree on anything regarding Legends Of Tomrrow since you think little of the show while I don't. 

[BkWurm1]

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1623289/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-what-we-know-so-far

Quote

Although Season 1 of Legends of Tomorrow was an abridged run of episodes in Spring 2016, Season 2 of the sci-fi series premiered last October and ran for a full 17-episode arc. Season 3 is going to follow that model and use a similar release window. In fact, it was recently announced that Legends of Tomorrow Season 3 would premiere on Tuesday, October 10 at 9 p.m. EST -- right after the Season 4 premiere of The Flash at 8 p.m. EST.

While not as definitive as I'd prefer, this matches what I remember being said earlier this year. Unless something changes, I do believe 17 is the number.  

[Starfish35]

I think all the evidence does point to Legends getting a 17 episode season.

I'm not as willing to go out and say that it won't be moved at midseason. They very well might do that, so that BL can have the best lead-in available from The Flash.  However, I think it's just as likely they could put BL after Supergirl when Valor ends and save them having to find a new slot for Legends.  Or they could do something else entirely.  *shrugs*  We'll see.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

34 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Yup. We'll never agree on anything regarding Legends Of Tomrrow since you think little of the show while I don't. 

Well yeah, I don't watch it, never even watched an episode, so I don't have any opinion on it. I don't think negatively of it. Just don't really have any feelings about it in any which direction.

Edited August 22, 2017 by wonderwall

[BkWurm1]

I get the impression that Supergirl is considered a girl show and therefore they'd only pair a girl show with it (insert eye roll) on Monday.  Personally, the only thing that put me off more than the clip for Valor was the clip for Dynasty, the other "girl" show.  I think I've gone past the point of not planning on watching to actively rooting for its demise.  

[Starfish35]

Yeah I think Dynasty has even less of a chance of survival than Valor does.  But I've been surprised before.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah I think Dynasty has even less of a chance of survival than Valor does.  But I've been surprised before.

True.  I really liked Riverdale.  Didn't expect that at all.  

[statsgirl]

It's disheartening that when the CW wants to pull in more of the female audience, they think it should be done with cat fights in Dynasty.

Even more so that they consider Supergirl a girl show when she's taken a back seat to both Superman and Mon El this season.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Even more so that they consider Supergirl a girl show when she's taken a back seat to both Superman and Mon El this season

I don't think Supes took over the show though just showing up took over the news cycle for a while.  Mon-El was around a lot but they finally seemed to get a handle on him in the back half of the season.  He was finally Kara's supporting character, not the other way around.  

[Featherhat]

With BL it might depend on how they want to schedule it in regards to Black Panther, before or after? The Olympics might make that decision for them (premiere in Jan and be off for Feb/low rated/counter programming?) for a lot of Feb? Yeah they're obviously going to take BL into consideration with the DCCW schedule this year but that doesn't mean automatically trimming LOT's ep count. Yes it's expensive but few episodes, even at 17 means 6-7 episodes less expenditure than the other shows and it got ok if not amazing ratings last year and a fair bit of astonishing turn around in reviews. Not to mention all the other new show wild cards. Even if it does only officially have 13 episodes so far this season, like last season it's entirely probable they would order more. And whilst this isn't a scientific indication of anything, all the people interviewed about the new season of LOT have seemed down right chipper about it, which really doesn't strike me as a show on the edge or in need of making big changes to keep/attract new audience. None of the "masks, masks, gritty, vigilantes, COMICS, noromo!" stuff that permeated the Arrow interviews this time last year.

[BkWurm1]

LoT is coming off a fun season that got a lot of positive feedback.  That has to be so much more comfortable than between 1 and 2.

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

Mon-El was around a lot but they finally seemed to get a handle on him in the back half of the season.  He was finally Kara's supporting character, not the other way around.  

Yeah, I think it really just seemed overwhelming because the ending villain and Kara's main relationship plot both came from him, so it was like he had a connection to a lot of what was going on. The only thing that really bothered me was more that I became aware that I didn't like Mon-El as much as the writers wanted me to (like Nate on LoT, I didn't hate them, but the story and other characters liked them more than I did).

[statsgirl]

One of my problems with Mon El was that he took Kara away from all the other characters.  There was minimal Kara/Alex emotional connection time (I can really think of only two episode, when Jeremiah came back and when Alex was kidnapped. plus a couple of coming out scenes), the Winn/Kara/James capers were completely dropped and when Kara worked for the DEO, it was with Mon El rather than J'onn or Alex as she did last season..

Two of the differences between Mon El and Nate weres that Nate didn't have as much screentime as Mon El, and that Nate formed connections with other characters on LoT besides Amaya (e.g. Ray) while Mon El was pretty much exclusively in Kara's storyline.  It's like they were trying to make Mon El the co-star of the s how.

Edited August 23, 2017 by statsgirl

[Starfish35]

28 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

With BL it might depend on how they want to schedule it in regards to Black Panther, before or after? The Olympics might make that decision for them (premiere in Jan and be off for Feb/low rated/counter programming?) for a lot of Feb?

My guess is they will schedule it after the Winter Olympics, rather than start it then have a break. The Olympics run from February 9-February 25. So after that would be my guess.  

[ruby24]

I wonder how the Olympics will affect the rest of the shows for those two weeks. Will they be off?

[Mellowyellow]

I really disliked Mon El at first and all the silly Kara/Mon El drama but I liked him by the end. They started  branching him out and making him friends with Winn, wrote him as supportive but still a bit clueless. I thought that worked very well. 

I'm hoping they'll mix up the supporting characters next season and have them mingle more. Towards the end it felt like they were headed that way and I really enjoyed the final few Supergirl eps.

[Miss Dee]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

One of my problems with Mon El was that he took Kara away from all the other characters.  There was minimal Kara/Alex emotional connection time (I can really think of only two episode, when Jeremiah came back and when Alex was kidnapped. plus a couple of coming out scenes), the Winn/Kara/James capers were completely dropped and when Kara worked for the DEO, it was with Mon El rather than J'onn or Alex as she did last season..

Two of the differences between Mon El and Nate weres that Nate didn't have as much screentime as Mon El, and that Nate formed connections with other characters on LoT besides Amaya (e.g. Ray) while Mon El was pretty much exclusively in Kara's storyline.  It's like they were trying to make Mon El the co-star of the s how.

I don't mind Nate forming connections with characters, but can he stop stealing Mick's connections to do it? ?

[Trini]

6 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I wonder how the Olympics will affect the rest of the shows for those two weeks. Will they be off?

Arrow was the only DC show airing during the last Winter Olympics (2014), and they aired re-runs instead of new episodes. It will probably be the same in 2018.

[Starfish35]

17 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I wonder how the Olympics will affect the rest of the shows for those two weeks. Will they be off?

The last time the Winter Olympics aired only Arrow was airing, and they did break for the Olympics.  I'm just assuming they will again this year, but I don't know.

ETA:  or what @Trini said. :)

Edited August 23, 2017 by Starfish35

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Two of the differences between Mon El and Nate weres that Nate didn't have as much screentime as Mon El, and that Nate formed connections with other characters on LoT besides Amaya (e.g. Ray) while Mon El was pretty much exclusively in Kara's storyline.  It's like they were trying to make Mon El the co-star of the s how.

Oh, I don't think Mon-El and Nate are actually comparable, I just meant they are comparable with how I feel about them in their respective shows. Like, the writers liked them more than I did and I wasn't as interested in their roles in the story or the connections they were making. Both of their characters rubbed me the wrong way, even though I definitely think Nate was weaved into the show a lot better than Mon-El was.

[Morrigan2575]

11 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

The last time the Winter Olympics aired only Arrow was airing, and they did break for the Olympics.  I'm just assuming they will again this year, but I don't know.

ETA:  or what @Trini said. :)

Everything breaks for the Olympics. No one wants to compete. Sad because, while i watch some of the Winter Olympics I'd rather have my shows as a option 

[Starfish35]

Brief swerve:  I was digging around trying to find more on CW episode orders, to try to imagine what the midseason schedule might look like. I ran across this, not related to episode orders, but interesting none the less.

Quote

The CW’s head of sales Rick Tuck touts the network’s digital reach, and the ownership of all of the CW’s in-season stacking rights as of this season, which has led to doubling the number of initiated episodes. 

http://deadline.com/2017/05/the-cw-upfront-presentation-live-blog-2017-new-shows-1202096575/

So if I understand "stacking rights" correctly, this means they're able to have the entire current seasons of all their shows available on their website/app, not just the most recent five episodes. Am I understanding that right?

Edited August 23, 2017 by Starfish35

[LeighAn]

Every time Danny Rand says "I am the immortal Iron Fist"  I want to crack up at the sheer cheesiness. That goes down as lol worthy as uber fake and lame Shark Boy on The Flash.

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Every time Danny Rand says "I am the immortal Iron Fist"  I want to crack up at the sheer cheesiness. That goes down as lol worthy as uber fake and lame Shark Boy on The Flash.

I love how the other three have varying levels of scoff in reaction. 

[Trini]

It'll be interesting to see how the spring half of the season goes on CW, with both a later start AND the Olympics.

[LeighAn]

I've just started episode 4 and I feel like every scene with Signourey Weaver and Electra are going to end with them making out.

[scarynikki12]

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I've just started episode 4 and I feel like every scene with Signourey Weaver and Electra are going to end with them making out.

Not gonna lie, that would have been an amazing twist. 

[Proteus]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

LoT is coming off a fun season that got a lot of positive feedback.  That has to be so much more comfortable than between 1 and 2.

 

8 hours ago, Featherhat said:

With BL it might depend on how they want to schedule it in regards to Black Panther, before or after? The Olympics might make that decision for them (premiere in Jan and be off for Feb/low rated/counter programming?) for a lot of Feb? Yeah they're obviously going to take BL into consideration with the DCCW schedule this year but that doesn't mean automatically trimming LOT's ep count. Yes it's expensive but few episodes, even at 17 means 6-7 episodes less expenditure than the other shows and it got ok if not amazing ratings last year and a fair bit of astonishing turn around in reviews. Not to mention all the other new show wild cards. Even if it does only officially have 13 episodes so far this season, like last season it's entirely probable they would order more. And whilst this isn't a scientific indication of anything, all the people interviewed about the new season of LOT have seemed down right chipper about it, which really doesn't strike me as a show on the edge or in need of making big changes to keep/attract new audience. None of the "masks, masks, gritty, vigilantes, COMICS, noromo!" stuff that permeated the Arrow interviews this time last year.

 

There's nothing pointing to BL's future having anything to do with Legends future. Unless I hear otherwise, I'm not going to believe that these two shows fates have anything to do with one another. The same goes for the idea that Legends is on the verge of being canceled.

Everything suggests Legends has 17 episodes this season. BL has nothing to do with Legends IMO.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Proteus

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, way2interested said:

Oh, I don't think Mon-El and Nate are actually comparable, I just meant they are comparable with how I feel about them in their respective shows. Like, the writers liked them more than I did and I wasn't as interested in their roles in the story or the connections they were making. Both of their characters rubbed me the wrong way, even though I definitely think Nate was weaved into the show a lot better than Mon-El was.

Same here.  They're both Gary Stus to me but Nate was incorporated into the show better.

[LolaRuns]

21 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Well I mean even ignoring the Katie BTS rumours what purpose would Black Siren even serve in the crossover? Like I hope her fans aren't seriously expecting she's actually going to feature across the shows? The crossover is likely to have its own villian story that's independent from the other shows season archs. At most they might do what they did with Damien in season 4 and have BS be someone they're battling before getting called away but even then why show Katie Cassidy if you could show Michael Emerson? 

I think Black Siren could make sense in a crossover if it was Legends based, since Sara is now basically the lead of Legends and so far they have protrayed it as Laurel's death being a big influence on Sara. So Sara meeting and being tortured/taunted by an evil version of Laurel and angsting about it could make some sense as part of a crossover. 

The main problem is that Black Siren is primarily based in Arrow and Arrow just doesn't really lend itself to producing those universe spanning threats that would make sense for a crossover. 

If they found a way to let's say have Black Siren be the henchwoman of Darkseid, then by all means, giving her some action in a crossover, primarily on Legends would maybe work. 

I don't think that she will play a role in this crossover at all, because Legends is the last episode and I'm pretty sure by the time the next next crossover is around Black Siren will already be unimportant. 

 

Quote

Even more so that they consider Supergirl a girl show when she's taken a back seat to both Superman and Mon El this season.

I don't think that "Girl Show" really had much to do with what role the men play. I'm pretty sure Vampire Diaries was considered a girl show in their mind and that was very male character dominated as well. Girl show means that the primary audience is or is supposed to be girls, nothing more, nothing less. 

Just like let's say Lara Croft (original version) can be primarily be a male idol. You could in theory have "a girl show" that was 90% male beefcake. 

To me this whole "Supergirl taking a backseat to Superman" meme has never made any sense to me. If anything Kara was way, way, way more deferential to Superman in season 1 and they used his presence in season 2  to show that that isn't the case anymore. They start off by showing Kara self confident and working with him in the beginning and actually beating him and proving herself the superior superhero in the finale (which is repeated and confirmed even by Superman himself). If anything the whole point of him in season 2 was to me to put the final nail into that coffin and show once and for all as far the show is concerned, Kara really is superior to Superman in every way. 

[Miss Dee]

It's an alternate Earth; plenty of room in the multiverse for Earths where Superman is stronger and others where Supergirl is stronger. We happen to be watching the latter.

This is also the one story where Superman could be fridged for good or turn evil without tanking the story completely because Supergirl is the lead. I almost hope they go there just for the sheer ballsiness of it.

[tofutan]

I've been rooting for a while for a story where Superman is at least "lost" for several years, simply because it would work as a quick explanation why Kara doesn't just call him for backup every time she encounters a more challenging foe (especially since they have moved away now from her having to prove herself and living in his shadow). Not to mention it would emphasize just how much responsibility is resting on her shoulders. 

I wonder if in this crossover whether we will again have villains that are fairly standalone for the crossover, so the crossover can be watched on its own without missing too much on this front. 

[Velocity23]

I always suspected the crossover will have something to do with Mon-El being rescued. 

[tv echo]

Good article - talks about Blake Neely's music for Arrow, Flash, Supergirl and LoT (also includes audio snippets of various music themes)...

Inside the Creation of the Arrow-Verse's Iconic Themes
By Alexander Zalben | Aug 22, 2017 10:54 AM EDT
http://www.tvguide.com/news/blake-neely-soundtrack-arrow-the-flash-supergirl-legends-of-tomorrow/ 

Edited August 23, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

Flash spoiler for episode 4x05

http://tvline.com/2017/08/23/this-is-us-season-2-spoilers-jack-kid-young-flashback/

[Primal Slayer]

MG is probably annoyed that they are talking about Felicity in present tense confirming she is alive. 

[way2interested]

He already talked about Felicity in the present tense already by giving a spoiler to TVline a few weeks ago about Smoak Tech, so I don't think he minds.

[BkWurm1]

14 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Same here.  They're both Gary Stus to me but Nate was incorporated into the show better.

I agree and yet when I saw "Nate" with his very thick neck at Comic Con, I found myself sooo much more irritated than when I saw Cris Wood with the Supergirl crowd.  

[Starfish35]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I agree and yet when I saw "Nate" with his very thick neck at Comic Con, I found myself sooo much more irritated than when I saw Cris Wood with the Supergirl crowd.  

Yeah I like Chris Wood a lot better than Nick Zano.  And it's probably because I wasn't as invested in the Supergirl relationships as I am in the Legends relationships, but Nate bugs me a whole lot more than Mon-El does (although I do think Chris Wood is the better actor of the two as well).  I'm not saying Mon-El was written well, but he doesn't annoy me the way Nate does (although I think I'm in a tiny minority on that one).

[tofutan]

Nate personally confused me more, he felt more all over the place. Maybe that's to some extent the behavior of the character bleeding over, but to me it felt like a hyperactive writer trying out 5 different things with him. I think I hate Nate/Amaya a lot less than most (mostly because I was not invested in Mick/Amaya), but even I dread it when the LOT people drop hints about the potential of more Nate/Amaya in season 3. 

[Guest]

Is anyone else struggling with The Defenders? I've only just finished episode 3 (gonna start 4 later) but I have to admit I've not really felt that need to continue watching the next episode. 

Spoiler

Danny is annoying me and the actor seems to be over-acting to everything. Elekra's fight scenes are awesome. And I'll always love Sigourney Weaver. But on the whole I'm not really feeling it tbh. Though I did kinda go "Finally!" when they all met. Maybe I'm not giving it enough time.

[statsgirl]

I think Nate had all the signs of a network pet at the beginning but by the end of the season he was no longer the Golden Boy of the show.  Mon El, on the other hand, got worse.  Chris Woods' acting is better than Nick Zano but it's always the same, it's Chris Woods not the character that he's playing.

I really like Mick/Amaya scenes and I thought they had a lot of chemistry but that was never going to happen, especially on the CW.  Pretty young things only match with other pretty young things.

3 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

I always suspected the crossover will have something to do with Mon-El being rescued. 

Nooooooooooo!

That's what I hate about the crossovers, you have to watch characters from shows you don't want to want.  Even less do I want Felicity and Diggle involved in getting back a character I would rather stay offscreen wherever he is.

Edited August 23, 2017 by statsgirl

[Starfish35]

19 minutes ago, tofutan said:

Nate personally confused me more, he felt more all over the place. Maybe that's to some extent the behavior of the character bleeding over, but to me it felt like a hyperactive writer trying out 5 different things with him. I think I hate Nate/Amaya a lot less than most (mostly because I was not invested in Mick/Amaya), but even I dread it when the LOT people drop hints about the potential of more Nate/Amaya in season 3. 

Yeah Nate makes less sense to me as a character than Mon-El does.

[Primal Slayer]

Titans’: Anna Diop Cast As Starfire

http://deadline.com/2017/08/titans-anna-diop-cast-starfire-live-action-series-dc-digital-service-1202155063/