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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes


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15 hours ago, LolaRuns said:

To me it still feels like it would be odd to have the WestAllen wedding right in the middle of the crossover. To me it just seems that a wedding would work better right at the beginning (the events start by the wedding getting disrupted) or at the ending (as the happy end to the crossover). But neither Supergirl nor Legends seem really suitable for this. And I don't think it would be good for the ship if the wedding took place on another show, because that means either would be missing from the season dvds or the season dvds would have to include episodes from the other shows (which hasn't been the case so far).
 

Presumably the events start on Supergirl and whatever happens makes her convinced to team up with the rest (either the threat is so big she needs support, or she discovers something that will effect Earth Prime). They have promised that this time Supergirl would be more well integrated into the crossover, so even, let's say, Supergirl learns about things, but it takes place mostly on her show and Arrow starts with Supergirl crashing into their verse and maybe interrupting the Olicity wedding would feel odd, because that would even mean that the Supergirl is only superficially related to the crossover rather than crossover characters showing up in the Supergirl episode already. 

So either you have WestAllen wedding in a way that Barry is not that involved in the first 2 parts of the crossover (which I can't picture) so he would still be in the right happy headspace for the wedding, or he would decide to go forward with the wedding, despite the presumably being a huge threat affecting the world.

The only other options I could picture if there is a fakeout victory at the end of Arrow. Episode 1: Supergirl discovers the threat. Episode 2: The threat appears to have been dealt with, but under some sort ot great loss. Episode 3: Thinking the threat has been vanquished they go forward with the WestAllen wedding, but it turns out the threat is back. Episode 4: Everything is wrapped up on Legends. 

To me the more traditional pacing would be the team getting their first big ass handing to them in the second episode. 

Episode 1: Threat is establish. Plans get formed to defeat it. Episode 2: Plan fails. Episode 3: Low point/character building. Episode 4: They find a way to defeat the threat. 

I agree that a wedding in the Flash episode wouldn't fit with the traditional pacing. (And we still don't know if there will be a wedding at all, and who and when.) However, Arrow managed to have it's 100th episode tribute mostly unconnected to the larger crossover threat/events, so I think it is possible that they could pull off a WestAllen wedding during the Flash episode. To me, having the central couple (from whichever show) get married on another show is less likely than them breaking the format.

 

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

  And then yes, the full crossover movies would be on all the DVD's.  Didn't they do that the last couple years anyway?  

Not this year, unfortunately. It was only for Flash Season 2 and Arrow Season 4 where they put the crossover episodes on the DVDs.

 

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Yeah, just because Flash has a girl's episode (And I really hope it does end up being one where the boys go out of town or at least take a backseat to the action) doesn't mean we won't get something on Arrow.  And we have plenty of girl power anytime they want to go there.  

Oh and I just need to take a moment to geek over Katee Sackhoff showing up!  Yay Starbuck!!!!

It could be a bachelorette party, but I'm not getting my hopes up so soon. I'm glad Iris will get to hang out with other females.

As for who could stand for Iris at the wedding, there's Linda (everyone wants her back, make it happen, Show!), Felicity, and to a lesser extent, Kara, Jesse and Cecile (and maaaaybe Cecile's daughter). For some reason, they never really developed a friendship between Iris and Caitlin (despite them both being regulars for 3 seasons) and then Caitlin colluded with Iris' would-be-murderer last season, so she is OUT of the running.

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1 minute ago, Trini said:

then Caitlin colluded with Iris' would-be-murderer last season, so she is OUT of the running.

Months will have passed since then. If they want Iris to make Caitlin her maid of honor, it'll happen. (I'm not saying it should. But I really don't care who's the maid of honor, who's the best man, etc. for the WA wedding. Really, I care more about seeing Joe walk Iris down the aisle than I do about seeing Barry and Iris get married, so ... yeah.)

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21 minutes ago, Trini said:

As for who could stand for Iris at the wedding, there's Linda

I don't know what wedding etiquette rules are regarding having someone your would-be husband dated as your bridesmaid. 

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EBR and Katee Sackhoff on TV together?!?!?!?!  I may spontaneously combust and die from the awesome.  A flailing Kermit the frog GIF would be appropriate for my feelings.

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12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Seriously, I read just that by at least one poster on reddit.  

But for the most part, the news of EBR being on The Flash has ended the denial and insistence that she dies on the island.  A moment of silence for all the fallen hopes.  ;)  ?????????

There's a lot of "she's always the one that gets the crossovers!" carping at the moment. But 1) It's "GNO" that means none of the guys crossing over for it would make sense and Felicity is the only one who really knows Iris that is a regular 2.) It's not Felicity's fault the Flash writers can't give Iris more friends or have a bigger permanent female cast. 3) We don't know which other female characters will be in the episode, they could have been trying to arrange for Malese Jow to come back for all we know (kinda doubt it but still). 4) That means they think it's worth it because she's popular (and they probably have data showing it). 5) It's more difficult for the title characters to crossover because they're often in 90% of the scenes per episode.

It annoys me when people say EBR is getting special treatment with the crossovers, she's roughly consistent with the 1 person or small crossovers with a lot of the other cast. Not counting big team "full" crossovers or characters originating on Flash or Arrow before becoming regulars on LOT, otherwise BR would win or the fancy "Flarrowverse regulars" contracts in place last season otherwise JB, WM and NMD would eclipse a lot of this list.

EBR has been in 3 of Flash and 2 of LOT

SA has been in 2 of Flash and 3 of LOT

KC has been in 2 of LOT and 2 of Flash

PB has been in 2 of LOT and 1 of Flash

GG has been in 4 of Arrow and 2 of Supergirl

CV has been in 2 of Arrow, 1 of LOT and 1 of Supergirl

So she doesn't have more than SA really, although maybe a bigger part of the Flash ones than him, though he had a much bigger part than either of her two LOT episodes (that weren't Invasion).

Edited by Featherhat
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WONDER WOMAN BECOMES HIGHEST GROSSING DOMESTIC SUPERHERO ORIGIN FILM EVER
Jonathan Dornbush   21 AUG 2017
http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/08/21/wonder-woman-becomes-highest-grossing-domestic-superhero-origin-film-ever 

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Crossing the $404 million mark at the box office this past weekend, Wonder Woman has now become the highest grossing superhero origin film at the domestic box office.

Wonder Woman, which released in theaters on June 2, has made an estimated $404,008,376 million domestically, eclipsing the original Spider-Man's long-held record of $403,706,375.

Spider-Man has held that top spot of all superhero origin films since 2002, with Deadpool most recently coming close to its record, though that 2016 X-Men spinoff still missed the mark by about $40 million. (Deadpool star Ryan Reynolds congratulated Wonder Woman once the film surpassed his movie's box office total.)
*  *  *
That number is, of course, is unadjusted for inflation — when accounting for inflation, Spider-Man's domestic total becomes $549,314,445, a much higher final tally than Wonder Woman has or likely will ultimately amass. And worldwide, Wonder Woman is still shy of Spider-Man's $821 million haul, compared to the $800 million milestone that Wonder Woman surpassed this weekend.

Edited by tv echo
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She should be the one that gets lots of crossovers! She's one of the most popular characters in Arrowverse and the fans lose their sh@t when she does crossover! People just need to accept that and move on! If their favourite character was as popular and generated as much buzz maybe they would crossover too. Alas they probably just generate crickets! Get over it! 

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12 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I don't know what wedding etiquette rules are regarding having someone your would-be husband dated as your bridesmaid. 

I don't think the EPs care about wedding etiquette rules. If Laurel had not been killed, would she (and Thea) have been bridesmaids at Oliver & Felicity's wedding? If Laurel had stayed Oliver's main love interest on Arrow, would Sara have been Laurel's bridesmaid?

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Laurel and Felicity have no bad history though. As far as Felicity is concerned she (Felicity) is the love of Oliver's life and Laurel is an ex from his past. Nothing to do with her at all. I reckon Laurel would have been a bridesmaid. Felicity would have wanted her to be imo.

I thought s3 did a lovely job of highlighting that Oliver was going to hide in a hole, brood and die if he couldn't have Felicity (even though he instigated all of the foolishness) so it just wiped out all his exes for me as if they didn't really matter at all. 

Haha the Sara and Laurel situation is a hot mess!

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Felicity is a character that appears on other shows a lot..I guess the writers must enjoy writing her or think she fits well in different shows or want to use her popularity of a bit of all reasons..the thing is it's not that if she stayed only on Arrow the writers would make Iris or other characters they usually don't use in crossovers appear on other shows..they could use them more now or could have had in the past but for whatever reason they choose not to.

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EP Phil Klemmer Talks Legends Of Tomorrow Season 3 With DCLegendsTV
August 21, 2017 
http://dclegendstv.com/2017/08/21/ep-phil-klemmer-talks-legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-with-dclegendstv/

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Is there any chance we might see Mari at some point?
We’ve certainly entertained the idea countless times ourselves. It’s not for lack of desire.

Might Black Siren and White Canary meet?
I don’t know. We haven’t broken that story yet. Our docket is full of characters that we know we have to see. We haven’t really been able to get to the ones that we would like to see.

Is Sara aware that Black Siren is running around, at least?
I would save that question for Marc and the Arrow [writers]. We unfortunately don’t get to get that deep into her backstory before she’s pulled back in, Godfather III style, into the world of being a time traveling captain.

DC's Legends of Tomorrow star drops season 3 spoilers – and reveals hopes for the next crossover
MORGAN JEFFERY   21 AUGUST 2017
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow/news/a836114/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-spoilers-crossover/

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Victor Garber – who plays Martin Stein – told Digital Spy that his character is "questioning everything" in the superhero caper's upcoming third season.

"A lot goes on – in his real family life, and his family life on [the Waverider] and he has to choose some things and make some decisions," Garber hinted. "Martin is questioning everything in season 3, which I think is very appropriate – for someone of my age and also of Martin's temperament."
*  *  *
"I'm not well-versed in this world that I'm inhabiting – so the most interesting part for me is the human connection," Garber explained. "For me, it's all about what happens between people and so when they introduced Lily, I was very happy about that... and continue to be.

"There's a lot more going on this season, that I'm probably not allowed to speak about, but it just gives me something to do. Other than talking about physics – which I don't understand at all, by the way!"
*  *  *
Garber told us that he'd love for Martin to share scenes with Supergirl (Melissa Benoist) and the Green Arrow (Stephen Amell) – and that he'd love to share more scenes with The Flash cast, since Stein originated on that show.
*  *  *
"I'm in love with Melissa, who plays Supergirl, and I haven't really had much to do with her at all. But when I've just been in the room with her, she's just so enchanting," he said.

"And The Flash... that's where I started, so I have a kind of special feeling for all those people, and I'm excited to get back on that set again. Arrow, I've never worked on and I only know Stephen from Comic-Con – we did a crossover together but we had very little to do, but I think he's great.

"So I'm excited about all of that that. As exhausting as all of that is [crossing the shows over], and very disruptive to schedules – because everybody's trying to figure out how they're going to shoot their episode that week – it turned out to be a lot of fun."

Edited by tv echo
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From the way klemmer talks about BS, they are doing their best to avoid having KC on the show which imo is hilarious. He basically said that BS is Arrows problem and to me Klemmer made it sound like more of a burden than anything else. Imo this further proves to me that none of the EPs across all shows wanted her back. 

If she came back because she's popular then I'd have expected all the EPs to embrace her return and write towards it on their own shows. But nope. It doesn't even seem like Sara will even know about BS

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19 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

From the way klemmer talks about BS, they are doing their best to avoid having KC on the show which imo is hilarious. He basically said that BS is Arrows problem and to me Klemmer made it sound like more of a burden than anything else. Imo this further proves to me that none of the EPs across all shows wanted her back. 

If she came back because she's popular then I'd have expected all the EPs to embrace her return and write towards it on their own shows. But nope. It doesn't even seem like Sara will even know about BS

he's like there are more other important characters for our show and since we have only 16 episodes we can't afford to do fillers with unwanted characters.

I don't think Flash wants her either, Katie was talking about how she was going to be on the flash last season and nothing was done. Unfortunately Arrow has to be the one to deal with this.

And this gives me a little hope that we won't see her in the crossover.

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3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

he's like there are more other important characters for our show and since we have only 16 episodes we can't afford to do fillers with unwanted characters.

I don't think Flash wants her either, Katie was talking about how she was going to be on the flash last season and nothing was done. Unfortunately Arrow has to be the one to deal with this.

And this gives me a little hope that we won't see her in the crossover.

Well to be fair Kreisberg talked about her being on an episode of the Flash also. 

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Well I mean even ignoring the Katie BTS rumours what purpose would Black Siren even serve in the crossover? Like I hope her fans aren't seriously expecting she's actually going to feature across the shows? The crossover is likely to have its own villian story that's independent from the other shows season archs. At most they might do what they did with Damien in season 4 and have BS be someone they're battling before getting called away but even then why show Katie Cassidy if you could show Michael Emerson? 

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8 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

he's like there are more other important characters for our show and since we have only 16 episodes we can't afford to do fillers with unwanted characters.

I don't think Flash wants her either, Katie was talking about how she was going to be on the flash last season and nothing was done. Unfortunately Arrow has to be the one to deal with this.

And this gives me a little hope that we won't see her in the crossover.

Even with the material she was given last year I don't even think the Arrow writers want to keep her around. 

I mean one could say this is disrespectful to KC and I guess I agree? The writers hold zero respect for her. And judging by how much she's been filming I do think the writers are running down the clock for her. 

Which begs the question of why she's even back... Well unfortunately she didn't have any other prospects and I do understand that she needs the money and the job. 

I hope that she doesn't come back next year because if she does that's kind of pathetic? Maybe she should focus on fashion because I think her acting career after Arrow is dead. 

Edited by wonderwall
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5 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

he's like there are more other important characters for our show and since we have only 16 episodes we can't afford to do fillers with unwanted characters.

I don't think Flash wants her either, Katie was talking about how she was going to be on the flash last season and nothing was done. Unfortunately Arrow has to be the one to deal with this.

And this gives me a little hope that we won't see her in the crossover.

I thought they got 13 episodes guaranteed this season (same as the last 2).  I wonder if they'll get extra scripts this season (as in the past two years) with Black Lightning waiting in the wings?

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7 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Well I mean even ignoring the Katie BTS rumours what purpose would Black Siren even serve in the crossover? Like I hope her fans aren't seriously expecting she's actually going to feature across the shows? The crossover is likely to have its own villian story that's independent from the other shows season archs. At most they might do what they did with Damien in season 4 and have BS be someone they're battling before getting called away but even then why show Katie Cassidy if you could show Michael Emerson? 

Yeah I agree, I don't see a purpose for her having her in the crossover but I wasn't sure about what contracts they negotiated with her.

 

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I thought they got 13 episodes guaranteed this season (same as the last 2).  I wonder if they'll get extra scripts this season (as in the past two years) with Black Lightning waiting in the wings?

Oh I just assumed it would be 16 again but yeah it depends on the extra scripts they choose to order.

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3 hours ago, tv echo said:

I don't think the EPs care about wedding etiquette rules. If Laurel had not been killed, would she (and Thea) have been bridesmaids at Oliver & Felicity's wedding? If Laurel had stayed Oliver's main love interest on Arrow, would Sara have been Laurel's bridesmaid?

Going by the 100th episode, I'd say that's a "yes".

17 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

 At most they might do what they did with Damien in season 4 and have BS be someone they're battling before getting called away but even then why show Katie Cassidy if you could show Michael Emerson? 

That kind of encapsulates the TV/comic book dilemma.  TV viewers would probably rather see Michael Emerson but I have the feeling that comic book readers would rather have the masked and costumed Black Siren, mask >>> acting.

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Crossing the $404 million mark at the box office this past weekend, Wonder Woman has now become the highest grossing superhero origin film at the domestic box office.

I'd love to think that the takeaway from this is going to be "films about female characters can make a killing at the box office" and "a good movie requires a good script and an intelligent director" but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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47 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Even with the material she was given last year I don't even think the Arrow writers want to keep her around. 

I mean one could say this is disrespectful to KC and I guess I agree? The writers hold zero respect for her. And judging by how much she's been filming I do think the writers are running down the clock for her. 

Which begs the question of why she's even back... Well unfortunately she didn't have any other prospects and I do understand that she needs the money and the job. 

I hope that she doesn't come back next year because if she does that's kind of pathetic? Maybe she should focus on fashion because I think her acting career after Arrow is dead. 

She's been filming more then PB/WH both of whom the writers seem to want to keep. Not to mention that PB gets practically nothing each year so it doesn't really raise any concerns for me especially since she is a villain so who would expect her to get mega watts amount of screen time? 

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half days according to Ken P and apparently only this episode has she filmed for more than 2 days...I am sure they are trying to get those 13 episodes out of the way for her. I'd be even shocked if we see her past episode 15 this season. I do know there are 3 parts to the story this year so we might only see her for part 1 and 2. 

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13 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Probably getting those bonding scenes with Dinah that will result in making Dinah The Black Canary. 

But but they're totes going to redeem BS and make Her THE Black Canary! Obviously Dinah Drake is going to turn out to be a Villain Because Comics!  ???

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1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

But but they're totes going to redeem BS and make Her THE Black Canary! Obviously Dinah Drake is going to turn out to be a Villain Because Comics!  ???

I mean they could STILL redeem BS. But the second they do that she's a goner (from the show).

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1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

 

 

Oh I just assumed it would be 16 again but yeah it depends on the extra scripts they choose to order.

They ended up with 17 last year and I swear I read that they had the same again but I can't be certain. Not really enough for too much filler anyway. And they already have a ton of stuff from their own show (well and some borrowed stuff that other shows aren't currently using it has to be said) that they want to explore.

Sara already said goodbye to Spear!Laurel and will likely be focused on DD again, thus giving her something about LL without having to have BS on the show. Plus since I guess Nu!BC will kick her as eventually it would add insult to injury when White Canary does the same.

51 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

half days according to Ken P and apparently only this episode has she filmed for more than 2 days...I am sure they are trying to get those 13 episodes out of the way for her. I'd be even shocked if we see her past episode 15 this season. I do know there are 3 parts to the story this year so we might only see her for part 1 and 2. 

Hmm don't know. I can see them using her later in the season but taking a significant break part way through. Doesn't seem like she'll shake out as the Big Bad though and redeeming her would be completely pointless as she'd go back to having all the same problems E1LL had.

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6 hours ago, tv echo said:

I don't think the EPs care about wedding etiquette rules. If Laurel had not been killed, would she (and Thea) have been bridesmaids at Oliver & Felicity's wedding? If Laurel had stayed Oliver's main love interest on Arrow, would Sara have been Laurel's bridesmaid?

If Oliver and Laurel had married, Oliver would have slept with at least half the bridal party. And that's a conservative estimate.

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4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I was told that it was announced st SDCC that they had 13 episodes. I don't know if that's correct or not.

I never saw anything reported about it, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

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I'm wondering if the 17 episodes comes from the longer production dates.  They're not as long as shows that have full seasons, like Arrow, but they're longer than shows that only have 13 episodes, like iZombie.  They're also longer than they were last year initially, when their production dates were reported to be July 18-January 10 for that initial 13 episode order.  This year they started July 6 and they're going to February 26.

2016-2017 production dates: http://yvrshoots.com/2016/07/start-supernatural-once-upon-a-time-arrow-the-flash-supergirl-legends-of-tomorrow-the-100-izombie-lucifer-timeless-frequency-filming-start-dates-in-vancouver.html

2017-2018 production dates: https://www.dgc.ca/assets/Uploads/BritishColumbia/AvailsProductionLists/Documents/Production-List.pdf

http://www.hollywoodnorth.buzz/2017/05/start-dates-new-seasons-of-riverdale-the-flash-supergirl-arrow-dcs-legends-supernatural-in-vancouver.html

Edited by Starfish35
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10 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I'm pretty sure it's 17 episodes; I remember it from the beginning of summer, because I remember thinking "at least it's the same as last year."

At the TCA's Pedowitz listed all the shows with 13 episode orders and LOT wasn't one of them.

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I don't think it would make sense for LoT to have 17 episodes this year now that Black Lightning is slated to take its position in the spring. I honestly can't believe that CW would push BL out of the way like that right off the bat. It makes sense why they aired iZombie in April (its ratings aren't that great - and viewership really suffered by the CW pushing it back that far), but to not let a new series start with the rest of the shows is strange and unfair to Black Lightning which deserves a fighting chance. 

Unless I'm completely wrong and it's not going to take LoT's position on Tuesdays?

Edited by wonderwall
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Well because I like to make lists.... ;) (Production dates from the links above)

Arrow: July 7-April 26

Legends: July 6-February 26

IZombie: August 8-January 18

Life Sentence: August 9-January 12

Riverdale: June 22-March 21

Supergirl: July 6-April 28

Supernatural: July 12-April 19

The 100: August 14-January 29

The Flash: July 4-April 21

 

9 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Werent those the midseason and friday shows? 

Whether it was or not, their production time this year is about two months longer than it was initially reported to be last year for thirteen episodes, so I think 17 episodes is probably a safe guess.

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Unless I'm completely wrong and it's not going to take LoT's position on Tuesdays?

I'm not sure it's been announced where it's going to go.  It was assumed that it would take Legends' place, but it could just as well take Valor's place following Supergirl (especially if Valor crashes and burns as bad as I expect it to).

Edited by Starfish35
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I wonder if there was a mix up with Legends though? Since it was first reported that Legends would start filming in August.

 

Anyway i have hard time believing LOT will stay after Flash during midseason. Especially with BL premiering and Winter Olympics delaying airing throughout February. LOT is in their 3rd season and they should give BL the proper exposure. 

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3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm not sure it's been announced where it's going to go.  It was assumed that it would take Legends' place, but it could just as well take Valor's place following Supergirl (especially if Valor crashes and burns as bad as I expect it to).

This would make more sense than airing BL in April after LoT finishes...

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3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

 

I wonder if there was a mix up with Legends though? Since it was first reported that Legends would start filming in August.

What do you mean?  What kind of mixup?

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Anyway i have hard time believing LOT will stay after Flash during midseason. Especially with BL premiering and Winter Olympics delaying airing throughout February. LOT is in their 3rd season and they should give BL the proper exposure. 

Well that's possible too, that they move Legends at midseason.

I forgot about Winter Olympics coming up to be honest.

Edited by Starfish35
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1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

At the end of May the paps were saying LOT would start filming in August

Well they did start filming in July, so obviously the paps were wrong.  I guess I'm still not sure what you're getting at.  

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Just now, Velocity23 said:

I have a hard time believing that the data that covers all production teams in Vancouver was wrong just for LOT. But that the mistake was made through the team responsible for LOT.

I'm sorry -  I'm being particularly dense today. :(  I'm not getting what you think is incorrect, other than that one pap's tweet saying that Legends would start filming in August.  Obviously that is not true - they did start filming in July.  So all the other sources that list production dates of July 6 - February 26 can be assumed to be correct, no?  What am I missing? 

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