Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[BkWurm1]

I can imagine changes to the stunts would be even less well received on Arrow since they've built up Bambam as this god of stunt coordination.

[Trini]

[leopardprint]

Didn't MG get in a twitter fight with her last year over a comment from her that was not at all directed at him but he just had to respond? I don't think she will be asked back anytime soon even though MG has made and somewhat delivered on a commitment for more diverse directors.

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can imagine changes to the stunts would be even less well received on Arrow since they've built up Bambam as this god of stunt coordination.

I honestly don't understand the praise that Arrow and this dude get because I don't find the stunts to be better than average for TV. I think they were a lot better in S1 and S2. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[SmallScreenDiva]

The stunts were very good when it was just Oliver pretty much or Oliver & Diggle training. Even the Oliver & Sara stunts were very good. But they can't seem to handle more than 2 people, especially in fight scenes. And the fight scenes have gotten progressively worse as the show added more masks. That's why I found the fight scenes during the crossovers ultimately boring. They want to create a "Justice League" of their own but can't deliver on a well-shot, exciting action sequence for their masks, IMO. 

[statsgirl]

I dislike his stunts in the episodes Bam Bam directs because they're so dark, I can't see what's going on. That's when I check my twitter account.

9 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

But they can't seem to handle more than 2 people, especially in fight scenes. And the fight scenes have gotten progressively worse as the show added more masks. That's why I found the fight scenes during the crossovers ultimately boring. They want to create a "Justice League" of their own but can't deliver on a well-shot, exciting action sequence for their masks, IMO. 

That too.

But I dislike his directing even more. Invasion was on TV a few weeks ago and I felt dizzy in the garden scene, the camera going around and around and around.  I don't understand why they think he's so great.  Not to mention, so obviously biased in favour of the masked characters.

[Morrigan2575]

12 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

The stunts were very good when it was just Oliver pretty much or Oliver & Diggle training. Even the Oliver & Sara stunts were very good. But they can't seem to handle more than 2 people, especially in fight scenes. And the fight scenes have gotten progressively worse as the show added more masks. That's why I found the fight scenes during the crossovers ultimately boring. They want to create a "Justice League" of their own but can't deliver on a well-shot, exciting action sequence for their masks, IMO. 

I don't know if it's lack of resources (not enough stunt people), lack of $ for extras, lack of ability (head coordinator can't handle multiple fights) or lack of interest. However, it was blatant in S4 with certain characters just standing around or exiting stage left before fight began. 

It wasn't as bad in S5. I thought they did better with trying to balance the fights and find ways for everyone to get involved. However, it still can't compare to the early fights (S1/S2). It doesn't help that you have 3 "gritty" street type fighters (Arrow, Spartan, WD - hand to hand and projectile weapons) then you have BC (scream) and Curtis (I refuse to use his code name) T-Spheres), which don't exactly fit and probably require a different approach (as far as stunt planning).

[RedVitC]

Random thought I just had: was there ever any talk of bringing Cassandra Savage back? I have vague memories that there was quite some press during her appearance (but I might be wrong), but maybe her appearance wasn't successful (because of her connection to Vandal, who I think wasn't very popular?)

[tv echo]

If you want an overview of the entire CW presentation day on August 2 at TCA...
 
TCA Summer 2017 Tour: Quick Takes from CW Presentations
By Tiffany Vogt  Published on August 6
https://seat42f.com/tca-summer-2017-tour-quick-takes-from-cw-presentations.html

[tv echo]

Uh oh - Disney/ABC had their TCA presentation day on Aug. 6 and apparently the Inhumans pilot and panel were not well received...

Internet Reacts To The TCA Panel For Marvel's Inhumans
by Megan Peters | August 6, 2017
http://comicbook.com/marvel/2017/08/07/marvel-inhumans-cast-photo-tca-panel

Quote

Earlier today, ABC held its press event with the Television Critics Association. Marvel TV brought out the crew for Inhumans, but the panel did not go well according to a slew of journalists. The press attending the panel say the event went over as well as the first Inhumans trailer did - and social media is buzzing over the comparison.
*  *  *
As you can see in the slides below, journalists left the panel with more infinitely more questions than answers. The event, which was actually cut short, is being described as an awkward one overlaid with thinly veiled bewilderment. However, when it came to the event’s Q&A, Marvel TV head Jeph Loeb did stress Inhumans was not yet complete.
*  *  *
While sites have since taken down their initial impressions of Marvel's Inhumans, the show's pilot received little love last week. The series sent out pilot screeners which were quickly criticized, so this comparison isn't too flattering.

Marvel’s Jeph Loeb Counters ‘Inhumans’ Criticism
Daniel Holloway   AUGUST 6, 2017 
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/inhumans-tca-1202517058/

Quote

Marvel head of television Jeph Loeb defended the studio’s upcoming series “Inhumans” Sunday at the Television Critics Association press tour against assertions that the show’s premiere episode does not match the quality of previous Marvel efforts.

“I can tell you that it was written on the material that you were given that the show that you have seen is not the finished product,” Loeb said when asked whether the series had turned out as he had hoped it. “If you’re asking me whether or not it was done, it’s not. So to be perfectly honest, I don’t understand your question.”

Trailers for the forthcoming action-adventure series — whose first two episodes will premiere as a 75-minute movie in IMAX theaters — and three scenes screened last month at Comic-Con have drawn  negative reactions on social media. The first episode of the show was made available for TCA members to screen prior to Sunday’s press tour presentation.

When one reporter prefaced a question with an assertion that the quality of the episode shown to critics was “not suitable” to IMAX screens, Loeb said, “I think you’re making an editorial statement, and I’m wondering what the question is.”

ABC Entertainment president Channing Dungey addressed criticism of the show earlier in the day during her executive session.

“I think that the episode that you guys have seen is still a bit of a work in progress,” Dungey said. “We are still a month away from final air, but I do feel like there’s great opportunity there as well”

Loeb also spoke about how the series will tie in with ABC’s other Marvel series, “Agents of SHIELD.”

“You have to watch the show to find out how it all works out,” Loeb said. “What you do know is that they certainly are aware of what is happening in the continuity of ‘SHIELD.'”

ETA: Incidentally, according to the TCA summer press tour schedule, today (August 7) is "Studio Day/Set Visits" so I wonder if we'll get any more interviews coming out later.

Edited August 7, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

How creaking thin skinned is that dude? Like ZIm sorry people think your pilot sucks, but don't throw a temper tantrum about it.

[Featherhat]

Eh, Inhumans doesn't seem that interesting from everything so far. I'm certainly not going to get IMAX tickets for it, sorry. We've seen it all before and it's fine but not at spectacle *or* something appointment TV.

[Morrigan2575]

I've been looking forward to Inhumans since the Phase 3 Announcment. It'll be an absolute shame if they butchered such a promising story. 

I'm going to give them a chance, like I've done with every Comics Show (except FOX's X-Men they broke trust long ago). I hope it's good but, I will prepare for disappointment.

[wonderwall]

Just now, Proteus said:

But your implying that Legends is in danger of being canceled. It's not. That's like me randomly saying maybe Arrow or Flash will be canceled to make way for a BOP spin off. There's no evidence that any of the DC shows are in danger.

IMO this is false equivalence. Arrow is the cheapest show and has similar ratings to LoT and Flash is the highest rated show and seems like it's cheaper than LoT...

But like I said, it's all conjecture because while I don't have indisputable proof that it is, you don't have indisputable proof that it isn't...

For me I think the fact that it's expensive and has iffy ratings will lead to its cancellation. But again, we'll see. Maybe it's digital numbers/merch sales will keep it afloat for one more season... But I doubt it'll get more than 5 seasons...

[Proteus]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IMO this is false equivalence. Arrow is the cheapest show and has similar ratings to LoT and Flash is the highest rated show and seems like it's cheaper than LoT...

But like I said, it's all conjecture because while I don't have indisputable proof that it is, you don't have indisputable proof that it isn't...

For me I think the fact that it's expensive and has iffy ratings will lead to its cancellation. But again, we'll see. Maybe it's digital numbers/merch sales will keep it afloat for one more season... But I doubt it'll get more than 5 seasons...

My point is that you are making it sound like Legends is on the chopping block and I think you are wrong about that. I'm not going to keep arguing about this. It's clear we're not going to change each other's minds. I'm not worried about my favorite show and you've provided me with no reason to be.

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, Proteus said:

My point is that you are making it sound like Legends is on the chopping block and I think you are wrong about that. I'm not going to keep arguing about this. It's clear we're not going to change each other's minds. I'm not worried about my favorite show and you've provided me with no reason to be.

I didn't state it as a fact though. I literally said it's just a feeling.

Quote

Maybe use it to test the audience? I have a feeling they might cancel LoT and greenlight a BoP series (with CL, JH, JDG (maybe), KC-ish)

I have nothing against Legends. All I see is that it's an expensive show and maybe the ROI might not be that attractive to the CW/DC...

But again I didn't state it as a fact. Just a feeling. I may be wrong but I do feel like there is a possibility especially if they think they have another promising show on the backburner... 

And I definitely wasn't trying to convince anyone with my comment lol 

Edited August 7, 2017 by wonderwall

[Velocity23]

[Morrigan2575]

I imagine they'll be at NYCC in October as well.

[Trini]

I think I may figured out this year's theme for the Berlanti-verse -- "Fathers"*. With the fathers of several supporting/guest characters showing up on Supergirl and Flash, and Oliver taking care of William on Arrow. Not sure if there's anything related in Legends spoilers.

 

*(Or maybe it's broader, like 'Parentage', or 'Origins'.)

Edited August 8, 2017 by Trini

[Miss Dee]

We're gonna see Ray's childhood, so possibly. And I heard a rumor that Quentin Lance would be showing up as well.

[Starfish35]

6 hours ago, wonderwall said:

For me I think the fact that it's expensive and has iffy ratings will lead to its cancellation. But again, we'll see. Maybe it's digital numbers/merch sales will keep it afloat for one more season... But I doubt it'll get more than 5 seasons...

We're talking about the CW here.  How do you define "iffy ratings"? It still ended up third highest rated on the network for the season (though admittedly only fractionally ahead of Arrow), and had the smallest year-to-year ratings drop of the four DCTV shows. 

Personally I see Supergirl getting cancelled before Legends does, especially if the ratings don't stabilize.  It's more expensive, as @quarks verified, and it only has two seasons to syndication vs Legends' three-ish (due to the shorter seasons).   I do agree that Legends probably won't go more than 5-6 seasons.  But I don't see it as first to be cancelled, either.

ETA: Here's the CW 2016/2017 season ratings chart from TVSeriesFinale.com. Only five shows on the network average 0.6 or over.  Everything else is 0.4 or under.  That has to be kept in perspective when looking at the ratings.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Starfish35
Adding ratings chart

[Mellowyellow]

Oh wow Supergirl took a nosedive. 

Can't wait to see what next season looks like. 

[Trini]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Oh wow Supergirl took a nosedive. 

Can't wait to see what next season looks like. 

The show or the ratings?

[Starfish35]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Oh wow Supergirl took a nosedive. 

Supergirl should have an asterisk beside it, because it's hard to compare year-to-year due to it changing networks.  The problem is that it continued to drop even after it moved to the CW, dropping from a 1.09 for the season premiere to a 0.63 for the season finale.  Here's the chart, again from TVSeriesFinale.com:

Edited August 8, 2017 by Starfish35

[quarks]

[/prohat]

Forget syndication and a show's chances of making it to syndication or not.  That used to be important, but as of now, no, for two different reasons: 1) syndication is bringing in considerably less revenue than other post view sources (international licensing, streaming, DVD/Blu-Ray, targeted licensing (read, airlines) and so on, (Supernatural makes CONSIDERABLY more money through DVD sales) 2) the old rule of needing 88 or 100 episodes no longer applies; shows can now syndicate with as few as 20 episodes.

Both Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl have enough episodes to go into syndication if need be, but as of now, both shows are presumably making far more money through the WB/CW deal with Netflix. That might well change it Netflix continues to blow money like water, but there's always the potential of heading back to Hulu, or simply holding the shows for this upcoming DC streaming service, which is going to need something to convince viewers to cough up money.

[Starfish35]

Interesting.  So then what are your feelings on Legends' prospects vs the other CW Arrowverse shows?  Do you think it's likely to be cancelled? 

[BkWurm1]

17 minutes ago, quarks said:

or simply holding the shows for this upcoming DC streaming service, which is going to need something to convince viewers to cough up money.

This is where I'm thinking the shows will eventually end up going, but DC is a niche market compared to a Hulu or a Netflix.  So it's hard to envision them being able to make as much money off of them only at the DC streaming platform.  Maybe they'll work out a dual platform deal?  

[Mellowyellow]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

The show or the ratings?

The ratings. I quite enjoyed the show in both seasons.

[tv echo]

Ha, ha...

Inhumans Changes the Tone With New Character Posters
By Rob Leane  Aug. 7, 2017
http://screenrant.com/inhumans-tv-show-posters-characters/

Quote

The latest character posters for ABC and Marvel’s Inhumans event series seem to be changing the tone. Indeed, selling this show has been a tricky task so far, with the promo materials struggling to get across a mythos that includes military coups and giant teleporting dogs, among other things.

The series, which stars Anson Mount as the super-powered monarch Black Bolt (whose voice can level cities) and Serinda Swan as his wife Medusa (who has prehensile hair and telepathy), sees the Inhuman royal family ousted from their home on the moon by Black Bolt’s scheming brother Maximus (played by Game of Thrones’ Ramsay Bolton actor, Iwan Rheon).

This pile of posters certainly seems to be playing up the throne-related drama side of things, with lots of serious shots of people in nice outfits glowering down the camera lens. Alongside Mount, Swan, and Rheon, you’ll also see Eme Ikwuakor as Gorgon, Isabelle Cornish as Crystal, Ken Leung as Karnak, Sonya Balmores as Auran, Mike Moh as Triton and Ellen Woglom as a character named Louise:
*  *  *
That image of Woglom, clad in a blue shirt and some glasses, certainly seems to give off a ‘Felicity Smoak from Arrow’ vibe. Perhaps Louise is a human character that will offer tech support to the outcast Inhumans royals, during their time on Earth. Or maybe this picture is a bit of a curveball, and she’s actually got a cool power of her own that we don’t know about yet. Only time will tell.

Edited August 8, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

Lol every superhero show needs its Felicity type character. Iconic! 

[tv echo]

More detailed MG interview (from TCA) than previous reporting...

‘Legends of Tomorrow’ Season 3: Marc Guggenheim Teases the Return of Gorilla Grodd, Damien Darhk
BY CHRISTINA RADISH      AUGUST 7, 2017
http://collider.com/legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-marc-guggenheim-interview/

Quote

Collider:  In sheer scope and scale, Legends of Tomorrow is the biggest show in the Arrow-verse. When the series started, what were you most concerned about being able to pull off, and now that you’re in the third season, what are you most excited about getting to do? 
GUGGENHEIM:  That’s a good question. Straight up, to be honest with you, it’s not just about producing the show. We’re always going to be able to produce the show. We have so many talented people working behind the scenes and our visual effects company, Encore, is absolutely amazing, but nobody works for free. We knew we could produce the show, but the stress was, would we be able to produce the show on a budget that would allow us to keep the show on the air? That was daunting. The thing about The Flash is that it has a lot of special effects, but he’s always running, and Supergirl is always flying. In Season 1, we had three characters that flew, and we had cold rays and heat rays. It wasn’t just one set of powers. It was five to eight sets of powers. It was all the powers, all at once, for honestly the same visual effects budget, so that was really, really daunting. But we’ve figured out a system that really, really works. I really give the credit to all the people we work with, but we also have a process whereby, very early on in prep, we start shot-listing every single visual effect, figure out exactly what we need to tell the story, figure out exactly what we need to maintain the scope of the show, and then figure out the cost effective way to do it and where we get the most bang for our buck. Now, we really write to our heart’s content. We want to do it in a way that is good, but fiscally responsible.  

Is it having that experience with two seasons behind you that allows you to have a villain in Season 3 like Gorilla Grodd?  
GUGGENHEIM:  A little bit. It was really born out of, we did the Legion of Doom last year and that was a lot of fun, but at the same time, we were very cognizant of the fact that we had three white men. And then, when we added evil Rip, it was four, and when we added Snart, it was five white men. So, really, at the top of our list was some diversity. And then, we had this crazy idea, “Well, who’s to say that all the villains even have to be human?!” It started off, as most Legends ideas start off, as a joke. And then, as often happens, the joke starts to take root and we start to think that the joke has an interesting idea behind it. We like the ambition of the idea, and Grodd is a fan favorite villain. We started to look at it from the standpoint of story, and from a story standpoint, he’s such an interesting character, who cares that he’s CG?  

You’ve said that the Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) that we’ll see in Season 3 is the post-dead version. How mad will he be about being post-dead? 
GUGGENHEIM:  He’s not a happy guy! For us, it’s not so much the fact that he used to be dead. It’s really the fact that he has lived a life. The Darhk that we met in Season 2 was a Darhk from 1945, who was brought forth to 1985, and then was taken to jump around time. He hadn’t been through a lot of stuff, including a lot of the stuff he’d been through on Arrow. On Arrow, he’d lost his magic, he’d lost his control over the city and, most importantly, he’d lost his wife, the love of his life. So, the guy we’re meeting has gone through a lot more stuff and, as a result, he’s a much more complex character. Also, this is the Damien Darhk who killed Sara’s sister. Last year, he could say, “I know I’m supposed to do that, but I never did it!” But now, this guy has actually really done it, so that also changes the dynamic.  

Does that allow you to explore things that Sara hasn’t been forced to really deal with?  
GUGGENHEIM:  For us, that’s probably been one of the more interesting debates in the writers’ room. On the one hand, we always want Sara to have a nuanced and realistic reaction to and interactions with Damien. At the same time, we’re very cognizant of the fact that we really told and put an end to the story of whether or not she’s gonna prevent Laurel’s death. So for us, the question for Season 3 is, how can we find a new spin on their relationship, with a lower case “r.”

You also have Kuasa (Tracy Ifeachor) this season, who’s a villain that’s connected to Amaya. What can you say about her and what she brings, in that regard?  
GUGGENHEIM:  That’s a great question. We’re really interested in the idea of destiny. It’s interesting to have a time travel show, and you’re always dealing with changing the past and going to the future, but we really love talking in the writers’ room about a character who has this very specific destiny. She knows that she’s supposed to have a daughter and that daughter is going to have two daughters, and one is going to become a hero and one is going to become a villain. That’s really interesting because, first of all, there’s a lot of dramatic tension to be found, waiting for Amaya to learn these things. She hasn’t learned about Kuasa yet. At the end of Season 2, she just had learned about Mari, who is the Vixen of the 21st century and is the superhero. But to also discover that she has a granddaughter who’s a villain is really emotionally complex to us, in a good way, because it means that her capacity, as both a parent and a person of destiny, is now both bad and good. It also raises the question, if you knew you were going to have this granddaughter who’s going to walk the wrong path, would you try to change that? One of the ideas that’s really going to become ascended in Season 3 is, instead of just fixing time, can the Legends actually improve time? For Amaya, that means, “Do I try to right this wrong, in terms of my ne’er do well granddaughter?”  

Leonard Snart has continued to be a big question mark, in terms of never really knowing what we’re going to get with whatever version we come across. Who will he be, in Season 3?  
GUGGENHEIM: I think the fact that we killed off Leonard in Season 1, it basically made it incumbent upon us, every time we do bring Wentworth [Miller] back, to do it in a different way. We have a really, really cool way of bringing him back this year, but I haven’t even pitched it to the network yet. We’re excited, but we haven’t even had a chance to tell Wentworth.  

What exactly does it mean to break time? Just how serious is what the Legends have done?  
GUGGENHEIM:  It’s pretty serious. I think the season finale of Season 2 gave you an inkling to Season 3. What we’re calling anachronisms are people, places, and things that are displaced in time. We haven’t done this episode yet and we may not, but just as an example, it’s not a good idea to have Genghis Khan running around 1980s Wall Street. How do we fix these things? In Episode 1 of the year, we’re dealing with Julius Caesar, who ends up in a time that he shouldn’t be in. That’s a different kind of time problem than we had last year.

Edited August 8, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I found this article on Marvel's Inhumans from May...

First look: Marvel's Inhumans come to life — finally
NATALIE ABRAMS   MAY 4, 2017
http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/04/marvel-inhumans-photo-abc/A

Quote

Are you planning to lean into the more fantastical elements of Inhumans’ powers, or are you trying to ground the series?
To a certain extent, yes, but again, we approach these all as real people who just happen to have these abilities, so they’re all very grounded people. We try to write them as real as possible, and then have fun with the powers when we can. We want their powers to seem like a very natural part of their personality.
*  *  *
How difficult is it to bring Medusa’s hair to life on film?
It is very difficult. Even now, it’s still a process. It takes quite a long time in post to make that effect work. We have some of the best visual effects people available working on our show. We still haven’t seen the final version of it; it’s very much a work in process.
*  *  *
We know basically nothing about Ellen Woglom’s character.
She’s not a character in the comic books. She’s someone new who we have brought in.

Also, here's a pic of Ellen Woglom in real life...
 

Ellen Woglom's Louise character is not to be confused with Isabelle Cornish's Crystal character (stripe-haired member of Inhumans royal family)...

Edited August 8, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

12 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Ellen Woglom's Louise character is not to be confused with Isabelle Cornish's Crystal character (stripe-haired member of Inhumans royal family)...

Not to be confused, but easily understandable if someone does, lol.  

[tv echo]

It's all in the styling ;) - Crystal poster versus Louise poster...

[way2interested]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Does that allow you to explore things that Sara hasn’t been forced to really deal with?  
GUGGENHEIM:  For us, that’s probably been one of the more interesting debates in the writers’ room. On the one hand, we always want Sara to have a nuanced and realistic reaction to and interactions with Damien. At the same time, we’re very cognizant of the fact that we really told and put an end to the story of whether or not she’s gonna prevent Laurel’s death. So for us, the question for Season 3 is, how can we find a new spin on their relationship, with a lower case “r.”

What does this phrase mean to MG now? I semi-got it when he meant it with Olicity but now this is throwing me off.

[statsgirl]

I got the impression that he meant their relationship in non-romantic terms since using the 'relationship' word at all makes people think romantic relationship.

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I got the impression that he meant their relationship in non-romantic terms since using the 'relationship' word at all makes people think romantic relationship.

But why would the "lower case 'r'" be necessary when he's talking about Damien/Sara? Of course their relationship won't be romantic - it's very much a given.

I think there may be another meaning to it

12 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

How do you define "iffy ratings"?

Arrow and Supergirl have iffy ratings too... But Arrow has the lowest budget and Supergirl likely has extremely strong digital numbers. I can't really say any of that about LoT. 

Look Idk why people are upset about my comment, and I didn't intend for it to upset anyone, it's just a feeling I have and my opinion really doesn't mean anything at all in the grand scale of things. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

3 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Supergirl likely has extremely strong digital numbers. I can't really say any of that about LoT. 

Why do you think Supergirl's digital numbers are extremely strong?  I haven't seen anything reporting the numbers for any of the shows.

ETA:  I mean, I'm not trying to hassle you about it.  I'm just honestly curious why you think Supergirl's digital numbers would be so good.  I thought maybe there was something I'd missed.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Starfish35

[Miss Dee]

Hoping this works - bringing it over from the Legends thread.

Original post from @Proteus, edited for relevant content:

Quote

Its more likely this is Steins last season. Garber says in the round table interviews that Stein wants to retire and be with his family but Jax wants to continue being a Legend so Stein agrees to go on this next mission. But they come to an agreement. I'd guess this being their final mission. If so who knows if it really will be.

My response, edited for relevant content:

I did not hear that about Stein in all the spoilers from SDCC! That's making me think that they're setting up Firestorm to be a recurring player in Central City. On The Flash these characters don't have to be in every single episode, whereas it's hard to explain their absence on the Waverider and therefore we get all the "we can't merge!" excuses. But between having other stuff to do in Central City and the fact Flash probably has a bigger budget, they'll be able to use Firestorm a lot more often than Legends [can].

Plus these two characters are really the only two with a pressing reason to go home. Sara loves her dad but he doesn't need her and she has her own life; Ray and Nate sound estranged from their families; Amaya's relationships are all dead for centuries or on the Waverider; Mick's only sense of family is on the Waverider now that Snart's gone. But Martin has a daughter he has memories of but has barely interacted with, and Jax has a strong sense of responsibility towards his mom.

I'd be sad to have them leave Legends - no more sis/bro bonding with Sara and Jax; no more Mick schooling The Professor or singing "Day-O" with him except at crossovers; wah! - but honestly, this means no deaths; we keep the characters in another corner of the Arrowverse; Legends still gets to shake up their team; and last but not least, we have an excuse for getting Lily to show up more often. Big wins for both audiences.

[BkWurm1]

If Garber is looking to move on, I don't think it would mean Jax or Firestorm would have to leave, they'd just have to find a replacement for Stein's half.  I just don't see The Flash looking to add Firestorm to their hero line up, though Jax really should g home and visit his mom once and awhile, lol.  

[Featherhat]

There's no indication anywhere right now that LOT is in danger of being cancelled, no articles warning its ratings will have to improve and nothing in the EPs interviews that indicates they're worried or budgeting trimming even more than they already do for all the shows. They haven't dumped any actors that didn't want to be let go and are actually expanding the regulars and recurring cast and looking to use more CGI. Whilst it may be expensive having 6 less episodes than the rest of the DC line up helps with that and there are actors/characters, like Stein, they could loose to make it cheaper if necessary, or cut back to 13 episodes like The CW's expensive but fairly low rated The 100 and others (don't know how expensive iZombie is).

The show garnered big majority positive to rave reviews last season and though that doesn't mean anything much in terms of renewal it is in a different place than it was at the beginning of the season re being the red headed step child of the group and has a reputation as "character rehab" now "send your problematic characters but well liked actors here and we'll make people enjoy them!"

Not saying that things couldn't change during next season e.g. BL being a smashing success and getting 23 episodes and a bigger budget in a potential S2 or suddenly getting permission to do a high profile character etc, but nothing indicates an issue so far. Especially not just the potential for The Huntress to come back for an episode in S6, which they've wanted and not gotten several times before. There's no indication that DC/WB would be interested in a BOP on the CW when they suddenly have interest on the big screen for female superheroes (finally) or that it would be worth cancelling a known product for. And I have a feeling someone at the CW would insist on having BS/KC in there, so no thank you.

That said I do expect a few more female lead action/superhero premises to be popping up at least at the pilot stage next season, which will be nice and it's possible DC would give them a less high profile heroine to use despite MPs annual "no more comic shows" recently. That or Berlanti will once again pitch something like that to CBS or FOX. It will be interesting to see how all the new comic book/superhero shows do this season as there are quite a few now.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Featherhat

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, Featherhat said:

That said I do expect a few more female lead action/superhero premises to be popping up at least at the pilot stage next season, which will be nice and it's possible DC would give them a less high profile heroine to use despite MPs annual "no more comic shows" recently. That or Berlanti will once again pitch something like that to CBS or FOX. It will be interesting to see how all the new comic book/superhero shows do this season as there are quite a few now.

You'd think they would and, Hollywood has a long history of jumping on bandwagons.  However, I'm honestly curious to see if people/Hollywood would look at Wonder Woman and go, see female Comic Characters can be profitable or view it as a fluke and stick to their male comic book characters.

[Velocity23]

Quote

To figure out what shows have captured the world's attention, INSIDER worked with Parrot Analytics, which analyzes ratings data (where available), social media chatter, blogging, and illegal pirating, among other factors, to figure out the viewer demand for shows.

With all the different ways we're watching TV nowadays – online, mobile, and streaming, etc. – Parrot provides one of the best ways to compare shows across platforms and measure how popular they really are.

In ranking the popularity of these shows, Parrot assigned them an expressions total that reflects average daily audience demand from all countries from January 1 to July 31, 2017, which is adjusted for each country's population.

Here are the 20 most popular TV shows in the world for 2017 so far, according to Parrot Analytics:

20. "The Grand Tour" (Amazon)

19. "The 100" (The CW)

18. "Lucifer" (FOX)

17. "Gotham" (FOX)

16. "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." (ABC)

15. "Supernatural" (The CW)

14. "Arrow" (The CW) (Average demand expressions: 3.73 million)

13. "Grey's Anatomy" (ABC)

12. "Suits" (USA)

11. "Westworld" (HBO)

10. "Sherlock" (PBS)

9. "The Vampire Diaries" (The CW)

8. "13 Reasons Why" (Netflix)

7. "The Flash" (The CW) (Average demand expressions: 5.47 million)

6. "The Big Bang Theory" (CBS)

5. "Vikings" (History)

4. "Prison Break" (FOX)

3. "Pretty Little Liars" (Freeform)

2. "The Walking Dead" (AMC)

1. "Game of Thrones" (HBO)

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-watched-tv-shows-world-parrot-analytics-2017-7/#14-arrow-the-cw-7

[Morrigan2575]

Interesting, list. 

[LeighAn]

I'm assuming The Flash gets an edge over Arrow due to live ratings but it shows that Arrow is still very relevant when combining all viewing methods. Meanwhile Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow are no where to be found despite having higher live ratings then Arrow last season. 

[Mellowyellow]

I'm surprised by Supergirl not making the list. Delighted and shocked that AoS is on it though! 

[bijoux]

18 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm assuming The Flash gets an edge over Arrow due to live ratings but it shows that Arrow is still very relevant when combining all viewing methods. Meanwhile Supergirl and Legends of Tomorrow are no where to be found despite having higher live ratings then Arrow last season. 

I skimmed the list and was surprised to see Supergirl on it. I wouldn't have realized it was Supernatural if you hadn't commented on this and I went back to check.

[LeighAn]

40 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm surprised by Supergirl not making the list. Delighted and shocked that AoS is on it though! 

With how fast Supergirls ratings dropped both on The CW and on CBS are you really? I think the network pushes it as a lot bigger show then viewers have responded to it as (same goes with Legends). 

 

I mean there is only a fraction difference between Legends Supergirl and Arrow and Legends and Supergirl are two seasons shows where as Arrow is a five season show. And then you have Supernatural on 12 seasons that's pretty much doing the same ratings as all three. 

[tarotx]

Well in this time frame Arrow had a huge cliffhanger plus a huge Olicity episode. Flash also had a Cliffhanger that left their lead in transition. Legends ended a whole month+ earlier and only Rip seemed gone.  

[Morrigan2575]

39 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I skimmed the list and was surprised to see Supergirl on it. I wouldn't have realized it was Supernatural if you hadn't commented on this and I went back to check.

I know SPN does really, really well in DVD Sales and, I'm pretty sure they do well in International Sales.  What gives SPN the edge is that it has a loyal core audience that are very supportive and vocal.  Of course the Live+SD ratings weren't that far off of LoT and Arrow which makes it competitive. 

[statsgirl]

I think instead of "popular" they should use "discussed".  Sherlock is number 10 on the list and yet I don't know a single person who wasn't upset/angry about the last season.

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You'd think they would and, Hollywood has a long history of jumping on bandwagons.  However, I'm honestly curious to see if people/Hollywood would look at Wonder Woman and go, see female Comic Characters can be profitable or view it as a fluke and stick to their male comic book characters.

My prediction would be the latter, that they would see it as a fluke and continue with their male comic book characters.  There needs to be a tipping point before women are considered as worth paying attention to and one film isn't there yet (in board meetings I've read it needs to be 80% women in meetings).  The best I hope for is one or two more films about female superheroes greenlighted and see how they do.