Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Chaser]

RE:Supergirl

It started during the MTV interview at SDCC. Jeremy Jordan lead a musical recap of S2. He ended it mentioning Kara made a new friend (Lena Luthor) and that they are only friends, they aren't going to get together. And it he said he just debunked Supercorp and MB jokes that it was very brave. It can across as mocking and cruel.

JJ later apologized but then had to reapologize cause his first was hella condescending. A fan emailed MBs Team about the interview (detailing how harmful she found the interview to the LGBT community) and MB Team responded with a strongly worded letter about Defamation. 

Them DH tweeted about the reaction being overblown and that cast was tired in the interview.

So it's a big mess and 95% of the cast aren't handling it well. KM being the exception.

The only think I've seen from the fans that could be slut shaming is someone mentioned MB cheating on her husband with CW. There could be more but I haven't seen it.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Chaser

[Autistic Queer]

Not sure I would've said KM handle it well, she said smirking in the background. I'm sure it's the same smirk she had when she told a role from a disabled actress. 

[Mellowyellow]

14 minutes ago, Trini said:

No confirmation that it's going to be in the crossover; but the producer has said that their relationship will progress. I'm guessing the wedding is in the back half of the season.

I don't think a wedding in the crossover is 'hideous'; it would be great to have all the casts together for a happy event! And logistically speaking, it'd be easier to do it then.

Hideous for me as an Olicity fan to be stuck watching other characters I don't give a crap about at a wedding I've been waiting for, for ages. I want it to be all Arrow only. 

But I'd be super happy to watch a Flash Crossover wedding as I enjoy weddings in general.

Just no Olicity crossover wedding!!!!!

[Midnight Lullaby]

Well KM is the only one who said that the great thing about art is that people can take from it what they want instead of joking about the fans so I guess people appreciated that..

[Starfish35]

I found the video, if anyone hasn't seen it yet and wants to watch it.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Starfish35

[tv echo]

Here's how I feel about the current CW superhero shows after the past season...

Arrow - love/sometimes hate (strong passion either way)
LoT - like
Flash - dislike
Supergirl - apathy

[Delphi]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

 

The only think I've seen from the fans that could be slut shaming is someone mentioned MB cheating on her husband with CW. There could be more but I haven't seen it.

I'm not judging Melissa.   I don't know her nor do I particularly care what she does.   But is that slut shaming or.. is that pretty much exactly what happened. 

[JJ928]

I think everyone in that interview handled it badly, some much worse than others. Other than Chryler & Dave, I never liked the SG actors on or off screen, so I never got into the show. However, that interview was pure trash, never mock your fans.  A simple heartfelt apology was all that was needed and I think this would have blown over, while fans can be extreme, the defensiveness of the actors just made things boil over imo.

[Primal Slayer]

That whole thing has gotten out of hand and jumped the shark imo. Yes, the cast could've handled it better but JJ apologized. But then it turned into someone contacting Melissa's agent about it which turned into someone hearing that Melissa's ppl might sue the person for slander if they continued to talk about it to endless tweets to the cast about it. It could be a movie at this point. 

[Mellowyellow]

Gawd I'm old! I had to Google Jeremy Jordan because I thought he was the guy from New Kids on the Block and wondered what the hell that guy was doing at Comic Con and causing drama.  Then I realised I got confused with Jordon Knight ?

Anyway what a circus!

[tv echo]

EW's portrait gallery for SDCC 2017 includes only one group pic each for Arrow and LoT, but includes several pics (both group and individual actors) for Flash and Supergirl...

The Arrowverse Unites for Super-Charged Comic-Con Portrait Photos
http://ew.com/tv/arrowverse-comic-con-portraits/the-flash-stars-jesse-l-martin-danielle-panabaker-keiynan-lonsdale-carlos-valdes-grant-gustin-candice-patton-and-tom-cavanagh

L.A. Times' photo gallery for SDCC 2017 includes several Supergirl cast pics, but no pics from any of the other Arrowverse shows...

Photos L.A. Times Photo Studio at Comic-Con 2017
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-la-times-photo-studio-comic-con-2017-pictures-photogallery.html

Edited July 25, 2017 by tv echo

[Miss Dee]

Purcell revealed in a one-on-one interview that Mick ends up in jail for episode 3, LOL. Also that the first two episodes are really funny, and if he had to pick a character for Mick to hang out with it'd be Ray. Which he enjoyed last year until "fuckin' Zano" (said with a laugh) butted in.

I found the video in the reddit forums, but you can probably do a search on YouTube. I'm on my work break and don't have time but I'll try to find the link later if no one beats me to it.

If Cold is going to be a new version we haven't seen before, please please PLEASE let him out-Palmer Ray Palmer...just to see Mick's head explode.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Miss Dee
Clarified my thoughts

[way2interested]

Aw, I still love the Comic Con portraits. I love when casts do something in them (like Supergirl's) and really like when you can see a genuine closeness with the cast in them (like Arrow's), although props to standouts like KL keeping up the "Where's Wally?" schtick and CL's "ain't nobody messing with my clique" pose.

[bijoux]

I meant to ask about that. What's the reason behind the Where's Waldo get up?

[tv echo]

24 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

Purcell revealed in a one-on-one interview that Mick ends up in jail for episode 3, LOL. Also that the first two episodes are really funny, and if he had to pick a character for Mick to hang out with it'd be Ray. Which he enjoyed last year until "fuckin' Zano" (said with a laugh) butted in.

I found the video in the reddit forums, but you can probably do a search on YouTube. I'm on my work break and don't have time but I'll try to find the link later if no one beats me to it.

If Cold is going to be a new version we haven't seen before, please please PLEASE let him out-Palmer Ray Palmer...just to see Mick's head explode.

Dominic Purcell LEGENDS OF TOMORROW Interview Comic Con HD
Published on Jul 23, 2017, by Seat42F

[LeighAn]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

That whole thing has gotten out of hand and jumped the shark imo. Yes, the cast could've handled it better but JJ apologized. But then it turned into someone contacting Melissa's agent about it which turned into someone hearing that Melissa's ppl might sue the person for slander if they continued to talk about it to endless tweets to the cast about it. It could be a movie at this point. 

(This is a bit in response to your post but also a lot my general feelings on the matter)

I credit twitter for this graphic not myself but....

Jeremy's apology looked pretty much exactly like this:

As in lame.

He minimised it into your just angry your not getting your ship argument while completely failing to acknowledge that he was in a mean girls way shutting down an under represented community trying to connect to material through fantasising about a romantic relationship of the main protagonist and hero- something they don't get to see very often if at all. Slash shipping has been going on for eons. What is the harm in letting them have their fantasy ships without deriding them for wanting to see two people of the same gender in a healthy normal to relationship? Especially if Supercorp is a "Xena and Gabrielle" situation where the writers shipbait them. Why mock a group of people who for some may already feel mocked in their daily real lives.

He also missed that this didn't just reach and affect Supercorp shippers specifically but a lot of other fans and people who have never watched or don't know anything about Supergirl. Grown adults who've never watched a CW show even. When someone with no knowledge about the show can watch that clip and still feel disgusted then you've got a problem beyond just "not getting a ship".

To his credit he seemed to do better in his second apology.

The girl who wrote the letter wrote to multiple people involved in the show and it was respectful and was basically intended as a way to get the cast to understand from a LGBT perspective the way they felt by the song and what representation means to them. It was respectful and came from a place of feeling hurt rather then anger. The letter Melissas agent sent back basically reeked of intimidation, ignorance, and trying to shut a completely powerless girl down. A frankly total Trump Administration move. The girl posted both her letter and the letter she got back in return for everyone to read to see the differences in tone.

As someone who's not part of the LGBT community one thing I've learnt from this saga and reading the responses of those in the community, unless you are a part of that under represented group you can't decide how some one feels. 

Ill give the cast the benefit of the doubt that they are not homophobic and did not intend to come across like they were dismissing the LGBT community but instead of apologising and at least presenting the appearance that they were listening and understanding the heart of the issue, their gut response was to shut down dismiss or get defensive.

If you were to look at this through the lense of race for instance if the cast were singing and dancing and laughing to something that was mocking or demeaning black/Latino/Asian fans would that in any way be okay even if it was just a joke? Would David Harewood be okay with a "we were tired" defence?

I don't know much about the Supercorp fandom, I'm sure there may be a toxic element there, as there is in every fandom and I'm not just talking shippers but comics, sports, games etc, I'm sure that element probably is a vocal minority that make the majority look bad which also isn't uncommon in fandoms.

Ive never watched a single episode of Supergirl. I've watched maybe 3-4 clips and I think it's disappointing that there seems to be more focus on making LGBT Slash fans accountable for how they should feel and behave to what the cast did then there seems to be on making the cast accountable and more importantly educated on the behaviour that led to this incident in the first place.

Edited July 25, 2017 by LeighAn

[Primal Slayer]

I can definitely understand their frustration but for me, contacting managers over this is a bit much. Her letter was written REALLY and did a great job of getting her point across but I'd rather they just tweet the actor.

[popgoesculture]

I couldn't sit through the whole interview (not into SG, although my eight year old niece loves it), but I saw the singing and then the discussion at the end of the clip about "crazy" fans,. The interviewer kind of tried to paint it in a positive light when he brought it up, but the cast made it seem like their fans are almost a burden? There was definitely a tone/laughter that seemed almost mocking. I'm used to seeing the Flash and Arrow and LoT fans just being thankful to their fans, even when bizarre things DO happen. For the most part, I feel like the rest of the actors in the Arrowverse are generally respectful of the people who are keeping the show in business. I am sure it can be overwhelming when people are overzealous, but I really don't think SDCC is the best place to bring this up. Everyone is there simply because they love TV/movies/fantasy books/etc. That doesn't make them crazy for being excited to see you. 

That said, yes, the escalation of it is intense. But I think the SG cast needs better media training, if they can let stuff like this happen because they're "tired." Other people are also tired but they also do their job/respect others effectively. 

[LeighAn]

23 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I can definitely understand their frustration but for me, contacting managers over this is a bit much. Her letter was written REALLY and did a great job of getting her point across but I'd rather they just tweet the actor.

Again I feel like maybe the points getting lost. My first gut instinct was "is writing a letter to far?" But then I read the responses all respectful and thoughtful from LGBT memebers and realised that had I not been bothered to read their tweets I wouldn't have had half the understanding that I did before and that I'm privileged to live a world were I gave 100s of shows that represent my preferences where as fans who were shipping a couple most were realistic enough to know wouldn't happen were being mocked for even fantasing for something between two characters of the same gender when they get very few of those relationships that aren't treated like the token gay or paying lip service.

 

So is it fair of any of us to deny someone the right to write a respectful and thoughtful letter in the hopes that maybe the cast will read it and understand and learn if they are choosing to ignore or not acknowledge the problem on their social media platforms. Before twitter letters or emails were how fans reached out to the stars they admired. And once upon a time stars use to write them back. (And I'm not even that old!) So I fail to see how writing a respectful letter is the more repugnant actions then the behaviour that insighted the letter itself.

 

I mean I'm hoping I'm not triggering anybody when I keep comparing it to race but I feel like that maybe translates easier but if a person was racist to someone else and then victim of the racism wrote them a letter to both explain their feelings on the racism why it was racist and ask them for better behaviour next time- how is that more wrong then the racist behaviour in the first place.

 

Plus when I read the girls blog post she mentioned that she wrote to more then one person it was just Melissa's publicist who wrote back.

Edited July 25, 2017 by LeighAn

[Guest]

It's nice to see more women on the Arrow and LOT cast pics upthread. @ Flash, do better. Two female cast members is not enough. 

As for Supergirl, I'm getting my popcorn ready for those 301 ratings in October. Who won't be getting soda on set now? ;P

Edited July 25, 2017 by Guest

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It's nice to see more women on the Arrow and LOT cast pics upthread. @ Flash, do better. Two female cast members is not enough. 

As for Supergirl, I'm getting my popcorn ready for those 301 ratings in October. Who won't be getting soda on set now? ;P

The sad thing is Id be very surprised if this has any impact on the ratings at all. There's a long time between now and October and some people can unfortunately have short memories. My guess is the CW are hoping this will blow over after a few days and people will move on to something else. I think it'll hurt them more on a pr level then a ratings level since there were fairly reputable websites/newsites editorialising and reporting what happened. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

More than people having a short memory I wonder if those who count for the ratings are even aware something happened..and in a big enough number to make a difference..

[Chaser]

I'm not so sure. The 100's rating took a dive after Lexa was killed. I know that online viewers are a small fraction of the viewership but if the backlash gets big enough to make headlines they may see a drop.

[lemotomato]

I doubt it'll affect ratings, but I bet the next time MB cancels a con appearance last minute, she'll have fewer defenders insisting that she really does care about her fans.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, bijoux said:

I meant to ask about that. What's the reason behind the Where's Waldo get up?

Keiynan said that in Australia (where he's from) 'Where's Waldo' is 'Where's Wally'.

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I'm not so sure. The 100's rating took a dive after Lexa was killed. I know that online viewers are a small fraction of the viewership but if the backlash gets big enough to make headlines they may see a drop.

Lexa was a character that was killed on screen. All viewers were aware that happened..

Edited July 25, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[Velocity23]

The Flash better hope this doesnt mean a repeat of the Wild Cat situation on Arrow. 

[Starfish35]

I misread that for a second and thought she was joining Flash as a series regular. :(

Edited July 25, 2017 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

Also, apparently Tom Felton is gone.

Quote

Harry Potter alum Felton — who was absent from San Diego Comic-Con last week and whose alter ego was not seen in the Flash Season 4 trailer — is not set to appear in a guest-star or recurring capacity, but that could change, storyline and schedule-permitting.

http://tvline.com/2017/07/25/the-flash-season-4-tom-felton-leaving-julian-albert/

[bettername2come]

Same. Carlos Valdes made it sound like she would be coming back based on the Comic Con panel and I liked their chemistry I so I hope they'll find a way for her to make appearances. 

Not surprising about Felton. The character never had much to do. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by bettername2come

[Primal Slayer]

Didn't theysay they made a deal ti have herbe a reoccurring character? She mighy pull double duty. Does Taken shooot in Vancouver?

[Trini]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Didn't theysay they made a deal ti have herbe a reoccurring character? She mighy pull double duty. Does Taken shooot in Vancouver?

I just checked, Taken shoots in Toronto. But it's a midseason show, so she might not have to do double duty until later in the season.

[Velocity23]

12 minutes ago, Trini said:

I just checked, Taken shoots in Toronto. But it's a midseason show, so she might not have to do double duty until later in the season.

Taken has 16 episodes. The shooting should begin shortly. 

[Velocity23]

Quote

ComicBook had a chance to speak with Grant Gustin at San Diego Comic Con, and the actor had plenty to say about Barry’s time in the Speed Force.

“We’re not necessarily going to see Barry’s experience in the Speed Force. We’ll see kind of the effects that the Speed Force has had on Barry, and he’s been in there six months real-time,” Gustin started.

“I suspect the Speed Force is kind of nonlinear with time, so Barry has experienced his entire life from star to end infinity times over since he’s been in there.”

Continuing, the actor said, “He’s going to have kind of an awakening when he comes out. He’s going to have some knowledge that he probably doesn’t even quite understand yet. He’ll also be little scrambled; He won’t really be himself the first time we see him.”

Fans won’t be too surprised to hear about the Speed Force’s effect on the Flash; After all, Barry was well-aware during the season three finale that his sacrifice wasn’t going to be an easy one. Being stuck in the Speed Force is damaging, and The Flash went so far as to prove that by trapping Wally West there for a spell. When Barry exits the Speed Force, he will not be the same man he was before he stepped foot into it, and Gustin said that truth makes his job a bit more exciting next year.

“It’s almost like a fresh start for me as an actor,” the actor said, nodding to how different Barry will be in season four.

For now, fans will have to wait and see how the Flash recovers from his stint in the Speed Force. Barry may never return to the person he once was, but the character’s desire to help others hopefully won’t be stamped out - not even the Speed Force could change that trait.

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/07/25/the-flash-speed-force-grant-gustin/

[Velocity23]

The new LI for SL will be a new character. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Also, apparently Tom Felton is gone.

http://tvline.com/2017/07/25/the-flash-season-4-tom-felton-leaving-julian-albert/

Not surprised, he tends to only stick around for 1 season. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

47 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

The new LI for SL will be a new character. 

Good to know.  I suppose that doesn't rule out Zari, but I'm now leaning toward thinking it won't be her. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Starfish35

[Guest]

3 hours ago, LeighAn said:

The sad thing is Id be very surprised if this has any impact on the ratings at all. There's a long time between now and October and some people can unfortunately have short memories. My guess is the CW are hoping this will blow over after a few days and people will move on to something else. I think it'll hurt them more on a pr level then a ratings level since there were fairly reputable websites/newsites editorialising and reporting what happened. 

You're probably right, though I don't know if all fans will forget what happened.

I'm still gonna have my popcorn on standby though. ?

[Velocity23]

Little fun with the DCTV playing would you rather

[Miss Dee]

Regarding the Supergirl panel....

I'm in agreement with people here - whether they were just fed up and saw a way to get theirs, or whether a tired group of people tried to pass something off as a joke without seeing the bigger ramifications, the Supergirl cast did the wrong thing. They hurt a lot of people. They added to an atmosphere of belittling those who champion LGBTQ relationships on TV precisely because there is not enough representation to normalize it. Maybe that's not what they meant to do, but they did. Even if they don't actually give a shit about representation, it was a dumb thing to do from a political and public relations standpoint. No one is talking about the Supergirl spoilers now because this has overshadowed everything.

I hope this shows, and I hope my comment history will bear out, that I passionately believe in representation for many minority groups (good luck to you if you venture to read my endless Ichabbie and Atomwave ravings), as well as that shows need to be smarter about how they engage with their fandoms.

However.

I want to be careful how I say this. I have been a shipper for a long time. I was shipping before I knew what it was. I shipped Brave Starr and J.B. I shipped Turbo and Crasher. I shipped Data and Crusher. Hell, I shipped Jughead and Betty based on comics (which used to be my gold standard for hopeless ships before Riverdale came along, and thank you very much for ruining that for me, CW).

I know what it is to be passionate about a ship, especially the frustration that comes with realizing the show is just never going to see things the way you do. I argued myself black and blue for Chlark and GSR back in the day on TWoP. I did it again for Ichabbie on PTV in recent years. I didn't start Arrow until Season 5, but I already know just from the characters this season that Olicity would have won my heart pretty early on (and I would have been SHOCKED at it actually happening, and heartbroken when they broke up), and I would not have shut up about it. If Legends ever did throw some weight behind Atomwave, they'd hear me squeeing in Korea.

All that said, as much as I love my ships, and as much as I was usually frustrated with the characters that were blocking them, I don't think it ever occurred to me to contact the showrunners, the actors, the writers, or anyone else in that show and say dismissive, angry, harassing, or threatening statements. Hell, I couldn't bring myself to do it even on sites like this - I couldn't forget they were people even if I thought their behaviour was idiotic.

My heart goes out to the quiet shipper fans of Supergirl (whether they're Karamel, Sanvers, Supercorp or others) who just want to squee quietly about their ships with like-minded people, create or experience a bit of fanart, and just generally take pleasure in an imagined direction for the show without expecting or demanding that the show go there (as well as the excitement that happens when the show does, in fact, go there).

There were some fans of the show who were not satisfied with that. I have seen some of the things that were posted, and those posts are not friendly. I would be personally horrified and, in some cases, afraid for my safety had any stranger sent some of these things to me.

I know people get upset. I know. I know being marginalized for so long can make you want to snap. But there is a line, and while the majority of fans did not and would not cross it, some did. In a major way. It might be the reality of the Internet, but that does not make it right.

It is true that the Supergirl cast were dismissive and belittling of the Supercorp shippers, and that was wrong. To me it was morally wrong, even letting aside whether or not it was smart PR for the show or politically expedient from a ratings point of view.

It is also true that *some* Supercorp (as well as other) shipper fans crossed a lot of lines on the social media feeds of those involved with the show, and that was wrong too. It was morally wrong, even letting aside whether it was smart PR for LGBTQ representation or politically expedient from an influencing the showrunners' decisions point of view.

As they are fond of saying on the AV Club: it can be two things. I understand why both groups felt threatened, and I understand why they lashed out. I sympathize with their feelings. I do not condone their behaviour.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Miss Dee
Clarified my thoughts

[TwistedandBored]

Seeing this whole SG drama, I find it funny that Mehcad Brooks is fighting for his character to have a storyline. He is not even thinking about ships. He is in a don't kill off James tour right now which is quiet sad really. 

[Miss Dee]

I agree...I like James and absolutely don't want to see him killed off.

[Mellowyellow]

What are SG's ratings again? Higher or on par with Arrow?

[Karlophe]

I think the second season went out of its way to decimate the goodwill I had built up for James in season one (I thought his character had alot of potential outside of shipping if they'd let him take on a more relaxed, mentorly role at CatCo) and while I certainly don't want him killed off, I just don't know where there is left to go for him. I was honestly surprised to hear he was returning for another season; I thought he'd be written out for sure. Its just kind of an uncomfortable situation all around. I feel bad for him too.

[LeighAn]

8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

What are SG's ratings again? Higher or on par with Arrow?

They premiered to an 0.9 last season and finished on an 0.6. Their season average was an 0.7.

 

Arrow premiered to an 0.7 and finished on an 0.6 for a season average of 0.6.

 

So slightly on par. Especially when comparing a second season show (first for the CW) to a sixth season show. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by LeighAn

[Mellowyellow]

Thanks @LeighAn! Shiiiiite that's pretty bad! Not to mention they have scope to drop a hell of a lot further and like you said they are only on S3!

[LeighAn]

17 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

Seeing this whole SG drama, I find it funny that Mehcad Brooks is fighting for his character to have a storyline. He is not even thinking about ships. He is in a don't kill off James tour right now which is quiet sad really. 

 

4 minutes ago, Karlophe said:

I think the second season went out of its way to decimate the goodwill I had built up for James in season one (I thought his character had alot of potential outside of shipping if they'd let him take on a more relaxed, mentorly role at CatCo) and while I certainly don't want him killed off, I just don't know where there is left to go for him. I was honestly surprised to hear he was returning for another season; I thought he'd be written out for sure. Its just kind of an uncomfortable situation all around. I feel bad for him too.

I don't watch Supergirl but from what I've read and heard I get Laurel/Lauriver vibes from James. They wrote him to full fill a specific role in the show of the love interest and Mary Jane type (with a gender twist) character. For what ever reason they decided that didn't work and so now they are trying to find reasons to make him relevant to the plot because the character journey they mapped out for him was too tied in to a romance with the hero that is no longer feasible on the show. Would that be a correct read? 

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Thanks @LeighAn! Shiiiiite that's pretty bad! Not to mention they have scope to drop a hell of a lot further and like you said they are only on S3!

You're welcome. And yeah until I looked them up for you I didn't realise they bled that badly last season. 

It also makes Melissa cracking up and hackling when Marc made that dig about Soda ironic. For more perspective in Arrows second season they had an 0.9 demo average. 

[Karlophe]

James as the love interest always left me indifferent - didn't love it, didn't hate it, was willing to see in the early days where they went with it. By mid-season I thought it was the weakest part of his character, but that was okay because there was so much about his character that did work. I liked his dynamic with Winn and Cat. When it wasn't being hindered by unfortunate drama, he had a very easy going, very charming rapport with Kara. He was perfectly built in as a figure to look up to professionally, someone with a personal tie to Clark and all the years he spent on Earth without her, and a good friend. He loved and took pride in his work. Then the second season came and since he was no longer the main love interest, they threw all of that away, retconned in a sudden desire to "be a hero" (in a way that being an award winning photojournalist now sitting at the head of a major media conglomerate apparently could not), and put him in a mask. And even worse, they made him behave like a total asshole about it. It was...very upsetting. Such a complete waste of character. 

18 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

 

I don't watch Supergirl but from what I've read and heard I get Laurel/Lauriver vibes from James. They wrote him to full fill a specific role in the show of the love interest and Mary Jane type (with a gender twist) character. For what ever reason they decided that didn't work and so now they are trying to find reasons to make him relevant to the plot because the character journey they mapped out for him was too tied in to a romance with the hero that is no longer feasible on the show. Would that be a correct read? 

[LeighAn]

@Karlophe Thanks for the answer ? I wonder if it was just a side effect of the move to the CW? I get the impression from all the Flarrow shows that the CW has the mentality of the more masks the better and a need to give Kara a vigilante side kick to play with.