Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Velocity23]

Trailer for the GIFTED, Marvel show on FOX starting next season

[Morrigan2575]

Is that a blonde Amy Hacker?

Hmm I heard Lorna (Polaris?) But I don't have a clue who the bearded guy could be (certainly not Alex/Havok?) I also caught a purple butterfly which makes me think Psylocke/Betsy but she's in the movie verse. Hmm. 

I can't forgive or get over what FOX did to my X-Men so I'll give this a hard pass, per usual.

ETA: Checked online, Lorna is Polaris, purple was actually pink and Blink and I'm guessing bearded guy is supposed to be Thunderbird?  Hmm I only remember Jimmy not John but I thought they big guys (like Cable). But hey they cast a 6 ft. dude to play 5'3" Wolverine.

Oh and that is a blonde Amy Hacker, she looks good.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

The 2016-2017 TV Season in 5 Really Depressing Charts
By Josef Adalian and Jeni Zhen   May 14, 2017
http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/2016-2017-tv-season-in-five-really-depressing-charts.html

[statsgirl]

Whoah, that is depressing.  Arrow dropped 31%.  Flash only went down 17%.

[BkWurm1]

57 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Whoah, that is depressing.  Arrow dropped 31%.  Flash only went down 17%.

Year five vs year three?

[Mellowyellow]

Arrow also bought in a bunch of characters that no one gave a f#ck about. As much as people rage about Barry and whatever problems Flash has it seems like their core cast is their core cast. I didn't feel like that much had change on Flash besides it being more depressing.

Arrow killed Olicity and Laurel in season 4. Nobody got anything they wanted. 

We were then subject to a bunch of randoms and pointless story lines.  Does anyone give a crap about Pantry Moth or that young girl who can't act? Or Curtis and his marriage when the core cast of Arrow barely interacted.

Arrow seems to have finally worked out how to use their B team.  

[statsgirl]

8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Arrow seems to have finally worked out how to use their B team.  

By  keeping them firmly in the background (although I won't be so lucky next season).

SA and the Arrow team were so proud of Arrow being one of four shows that didn't lose viewers in 2014 - 2015.  I guess it made the EPs too arrogant for 4b and s5.

[Mellowyellow]

I think they were trying to "launch" one of the idiot pointless new noobs.

I feel like if you were an Olicity fan you got nothing, Felicity fan nothing, Laurel  fan well nothing for you either except the 100 episode which pissed me off as a Felicity fan, Thea fan nope nothing. 

That leaves Oliver fans and they had Oliver wafting around like a twit barely interacting with his true love, best friend or sister.

They tried  to lure the audience in with noobs (their favourite being an unlikeable one at that) and Pantry Moth.  Seriously WTF?

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Does anyone give a crap about Pantry Moth 

Every time.  EVERY TIME, I read Pantry Moth, I misread it as PANTY Moth.  

Then I giggle like a 12 year old boy.  

[leopardprint]

I read a comment somewhere else earlier that mentioned Susan and I was like "Who's Susan? Was that a character in one of the episodes I didn't watch?" then I remembered, "Oh, yes, her." 

Oliver was really, horrendously unlikeable this season. They took all his negative traits and turned them up to eleven while stripping out the good parts. God, he's been awful. 

(Yet, still better than Barry)

[scarynikki12]

I am SO RELIEVED that Selina isn't a zombie.  Now I can look upon the cat scene from last week with fondness.  Having Ivy save her life was a smart move.  It accomplished a few things: quick healing, further demonstrating the friendship, showed the versatility of Ivy's plant smarts/powers, and let Selina get back on track for her role in the finale.  When they first aged Ivy I was skeptical and thought it was just to sex her up but now I think it was the smartest thing they could have done.  It allows her to interact with more of the Rogues and sets her up to be formidable in her own right. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I am SO RELIEVED that Selina isn't a zombie.  Now I can look upon the cat scene from last week with fondness.  Having Ivy save her life was a smart move.  It accomplished a few things: quick healing, further demonstrating the friendship, showed the versatility of Ivy's plant smarts/powers, and let Selina get back on track for her role in the finale.  When they first aged Ivy I was skeptical and thought it was just to sex her up but now I think it was the smartest thing they could have done.  It allows her to interact with more of the Rogues and sets her up to be formidable in her own right. 

Yeah, Ivy has been an unexpected treat.  I love how they are so blatant about her sexed up look just being window dressing and how hilarious Ivy finds how men react to it while keeping her the same internal age.  It's easy to be sort of forgiving of her blase attitude over people dying or being killed, lol.  

So do you thing the teacher Bruce finds himself with will end up being Ra's?      

[tv echo]

LoT-related posts at https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ on May 15, 2017...

broken-canary asked:
Is the waverider crew going to get any new members in season 3? i.e. Lisa Snart or Hartley from the flash
Yes, you’ll be seeing at least one new face.

nothingwitharaccoon asked:
With Chris Fedak's new show getting picked up to series, will he be leaving LoT?
Very, very sadly, yes.  It’s a blow.  But we’re happy for Chris!

[tv echo]

[Velocity23]

Supergirl down in demo up in viewers

[Morrigan2575]

Crazy ratings lately.

[scarynikki12]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So do you thing the teacher Bruce finds himself with will end up being Ra's?      

Old Guy will either pull an Arya or just be prepping Bruce for when he's ready to face the real Ra's.  At this point I feel that we won't see Siddig until the final moments of the finale.

[tennisgurl]

11 hours ago, leopardprint said:

read a comment somewhere else earlier that mentioned Susan and I was like "Who's Susan? Was that a character in one of the episodes I didn't watch?" then I remembered, "Oh, yes, her." 

Susan is truly the Anne Veal of the Arrowverse. "Her?"

So, I gave up on Gotham awhile ago, should I give it another shot? I've heard good thing about it lately

[Velocity23]

ABC is putting Inhumans on Friday .... that doesnt sound like confidence in the show to me. 

[Sakura12]

19 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Susan is truly the Anne Veal of the Arrowverse. "Her?"

So, I gave up on Gotham awhile ago, should I give it another shot? I've heard good thing about it lately

I've really been loving Gotham this season. I recommended friends to start watching it again. It's the only one showing us the journey of the heroes and the villains.  

[Morrigan2575]

16 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

ABC is putting Inhumans on Friday .... that doesnt sound like confidence in the show to me. 

No it doesn't but, it gives me something to watch on Friday's

[scarynikki12]

38 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Susan is truly the Anne Veal of the Arrowverse. "Her?"

So, I gave up on Gotham awhile ago, should I give it another shot? I've heard good thing about it lately

Gotham is so much fun.  The first season does, admittedly, take itself too seriously and try too hard to be Nolan-on-TV.  BUT that's mostly where Jim is concerned.  I can't think of a single episode off the top of my head but I will say that the show went from "I'm going to watch because I love the Batverse and I already sat through Batman And Robin so I can handle anything" to "hey, this can be really great" about the same time they started mixing up the character interactions.  Bruce meeting Selina, Selina and Ivy spending time with Barbara, Barbara going crazy, Jerome showing up, and the first meeting of Pengy and Ed were all hints as to how crazy fun the show could be.  The second season is when they really started letting the future Rogues off the leash and it's gotten better and better.  The Jim stuff can still drag it down but even he is great when he's opposite Bruce, Selina, Harvey, Pengy, or another Rogue.  Earlier this season he got to play Deadpan Jim in scenes with Bruce regarding his crush on Selina and IT WAS EVERYTHING.  There's more of a balance between Jim stories and everything else and it works much better.

[Starfish35]

42 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

ABC is putting Inhumans on Friday .... that doesnt sound like confidence in the show to me. 

Apparently it's only an eight-episode season, and AoS will replace it in the timeslot once it's done.

Also, they've moved OUaT in front of it - will be interesting to see how that all works out.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Starfish35

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Crazy ratings lately.

I'm very curious to see whether Arrow can beat Supergirl this week.

[way2interested]

So then with AoS being pushed to Fridays and midseason, this is probably going to be it's last season, I'm guessing?

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

So then with AoS being pushed to Fridays and midseason, this is probably going to be it's last season, I'm guessing?

I'd assume so, but then I'm still shocked it got renewed this season. :)

[Trini]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

With Chris Fedak's new show getting picked up to series, will he be leaving LoT?

What's his new show?

[tv echo]

^^^ Deception on ABC...
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/abc-picks-up-deception-splitting-up-together-series-1003501

[Velocity23]

Final Monday ratings

[tv echo]

I know Charlie Hunnam is really popular right now, but I don't want him to play GA. I was kinda turned off after I watched him on an entertainment news show where he came across as rather arrogant. I also don't see his talked-about resemblance to the comics GA...

AFTER KING ARTHUR: LEGEND OF THE SWORD’S FAILURE, CHARLIE HUNNAM IS READY FOR GREEN ARROW
Edward Nigma   May 16, 2017
http://www.fortressofsolitude.co.za/charlie-hunnam-ready-green-arrow/

Quote

Back in March, when speaking with Yahoo Movies, Charlie Hunnam announced that he wasn’t interested in the DCEU at all:

“I didn’t grow up a comic book fan and I haven’t really seen any of those Marvel films or the Batman films. It’s just not really my taste. I must confess I don’t really know who the Green Arrow is. It’s not part of my vision for my career or what I aspire to.”

However, it seems he has recently changed his tune and expressed his interest in taking up the bow and arrow for Green Arrow:

“I’m not a fan of the comic books, so I don’t know why people are always asking me about him [Green Arrow], do I look like him? Well then come on DC, what’s up! Give me a call!”

Hunnam does look a lot like Oliver Queen though. Many fans have rallied for him to take up the role on the big screen. Stephen Amell currently portrays Oliver Queen on the CW series Arrow.

Edited May 16, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Is It Time for Superhero TV Shows to Say Goodbye to “Big Bads”?
BY DAVID OLIVER      MAY 16, 2017
http://collider.com/the-flash-big-bad-villain-problem/

Quote

In the 20 years since Joss Whedon’s Buffy the Vampire Slayer premiered, the genre shows that have followed have borrowed heavily from the aspects that made that show an icon, with varying degrees of success. Indeed, more than a few of them owe their core concepts to the playbook established by Buffy and the Scoobs. Buffy was also a de facto superhero, so it’s little coincidence that her DNA is found in abundance in the bumper crop of superhero shows currently on the air — many of which are found on The CW, formerly known as Buffy’s home of The WB. Supergirl embodies the female empowerment, Arrow is all about the terrific fight choreography, and the bona fide immortal Supernatural continues to maintain a rich mythology of magic and occultism. There are also other shows on other networks: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and the Marvel “street-level heroes” shows on Netflix (Daredevil, et al) among others (Gotham maybe, but I checked out after Episode 2). In almost all of these shows, there is one key concept of Buffy that has endured yet definitely outlived its usefulness: the season-long villain, a.k.a. the “Big Bad.” And it’s long past time for the Big Bad to be deader than Cordelia.
*  *  *
Big Bads necessitate hit-and-run narration in shows that run for 22 episodes. The villain makes his appearance, there’s a confrontation, harsh words, hurt feelings, and then he must retreat to later in the season to carry out his hidden agenda, a.k.a. his dastardly plot. Episodic adventures fill the gaps in the meantime. This is especially prevalent in the current DCEU shows on the CW. Supernatural has been coasting for years on the concept: Yellow Eyes, Lucifer, Leviathans, The Mark of Cain, Metatron, The Darkness, The British Men of Letters, et al. It inexplicably seems to manage its Big Bads better than just about any other show, but it’s probably a result of Eric Kripke having sold his soul to a crossroads demon to get the show on the air for ten years. (Though somebody else must have sold their soul for this current stretch. Robert Singer perhaps?)
*  *  *
Regardless, for evidence on the detriment the Big Bad concept more often causes to a show, look no further than Season 4 of Arrow, Season 1 of Legends of Tomorrow, and Season 3 of The Flash. Arrow and Legends struggled with villains (Damien Darhk and Vandal Savage respectively) whose stories were dragged on throughout their seasons. Meanwhile, The Flash’s villain, Savitar, has bookended the season though was absent for a large swath of it. His identity and origin have only recently paid off, but his presence throughout much of the season was akin to talking behind the back of that kid you don’t like in middle school when he’s not around. Oh, and keep in mind that Flash’s signature storyline, ‘Flashpoint,” was whittled down to a single episode to accommodate the Big Bad.

Damien Darhk is an interesting Big Bad case, because has been the most unique villain of Arrow’s run to date: a homicidal magic user who eschews hoods and masks and most importantly, arrows (usually). Nevertheless, after so many confrontations all Season 4 long, I was more than happy to see him go bye-bye (despite the fact that Neal McDonough rules). Thankfully, both McDonough and Darhk were redeemed in Season 2 of Legends, itself having improved vastly over its first season without a one-note Big Bad in Savage and his soap opera tie-in with the Hawk people. Savage’s run was like Darhk’s: repetitive, largely inconsequential confrontations that are the hallmark of Big Bad villains.
*  *  *
But the show, the season, and the formula that I hold up as a model to break the withering Big Bad trend has been this most recent season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. The show has engaged in the Big Bad practice as well during its run, sure. But Season 4, which featured three distinct story arcs centering on Ghost Rider, LMDs and the Agents of HYDRA / Framework alternate reality, has been representative of the methodology from which I think all these other shows could benefit. Take for instance, the current Season of The Flash.  Flashpoint should have been given its proper due to start the season for at least six to eight episode. That then leads to another arc, probably an expanded run with Dr. Alchemy, or perhaps some meta-of-the-weeks, (especially considering the winter break) for the second third, and then the final third wrapping up the season with the Savitar storyline, spawned directly from Flashpoint. I’m just sayin’!

The “anti-Big Bad” way of genre storytelling equals tighter adventures told in a compressed timeframe, allowing for not only more stories, but the better execution on them. I hope that more of these superhero and genre shows will embrace the opportunity to tell more stories in more manageable bits rather than clinging to a worn out and rarely well-executed storytelling methodology inspired by a 20-year-old show about a vampire-killing teenage girl with a weapon named “Mr. Pointy.” Great as it was, we’re in a new age of television now.

Edited May 16, 2017 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Is Charlie Hunnam still a hot topic? I would think that after SoA went off and no real hit movies he'd have lost status.

I can see why fans want him, he certainly looks the part.

[leopardprint]

27 minutes ago, tv echo said:

 

I know Charlie Hunnam is really popular right now, but I don't want him to play GA. I was kinda turned off after I watched him on an entertainment news show where he came across as rather arrogant. I also don't see his talked-about resemblance to the comics GA..

 

From SoA, he displayed the ability to wear ridiculous facial hair without it becoming distracting.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Isn't comic GA kind of a goofball, don't see him playing that. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

50 minutes ago, tv echo said:

“I’m not a fan of the comic books, so I don’t know why people are always asking me about him [Green Arrow], do I look like him? Well then come on DC, what’s up! Give me a call!”

What an arrogant jackass.

I'm completely off Charlie Hunnam after listening to him talk about how the Arthur legend needed to be changed for his new movie (which makes Arthur into a thug). No,  you twerp, the point of the Arthur legends is that he isn't a thug.

I would not go to a GA movie if he were playing the role.

[calliope1975]

30 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is Charlie Hunnam still a hot topic? I would think that after SoA went off and no real hit movies he'd have lost status.

I can see why fans want him, he certainly looks the part.

He's everywhere right now doing press for King Arthur. But since that movie beyond tanked, I'm sure his stock is dropping as I type.

[ruby24]

I'm glad someone is saying get rid of the Big Bad. I fully agree. It's tiring and I don't think these shows can pull it off. I like the idea of different arcs of six-to-eight episodes, but to be totally honest, at this point I would endorse a return to the old-school, pre-Buffy model of simple adventures of the week, with ongoing, fun character stuff. I mean this for The Flash in particular, I guess. 

Zoom and Savitar were both lame and uninteresting, and the light, cheeriness of Season 1 has been missing for far too long. Looking back on it, the characters didn't even realize there was a Big Bad that season until like episode 17 or so? Somewhere around there. They only had to deal with Wells as Reverse-Flash for the last handful of eps. So I say get back to that- do a villain for the last handful, but spend most of the season on lighthearted adventure stuff. If there's any hints to a larger plot, make it known only to the audience, not the characters yet.

Also, doing more of an old-fashioned, fun superhero show usually involved secret-identity shenanigans and the main hero working at his day job too, so get back to that please and get the hell out of Star Labs. I am so sick of looking at that ugly set. Film more outside and around Central City, in the police department, anything.

[Mellowyellow]

I don't find him very attractive or appealing at all. 

But I'm the kind of person who gets very used to what I see first so SA will always be Oliver Queen to me. Plus he can be an adorable OQ when he wants to be. 

I'll admit that the movie Barry Allen seems to capture the spirit of Barry Allen well though. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

I'll admit that the movie Barry Allen seems to capture the spirit of Barry Allen well though. 

He comes off more like Peter Parker than Barry Allen. Barry is supposed to be a CONTEMPORARY of Supes, Bats and Diana. He looks more of Bart's age.??

Then again, Warner has FUCKED up almost everyone in this franchise, so I shouldn't be surprised at this.

Edited May 16, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Mellowyellow]

I only know BA through the cartoons and from the TV show so he's what I expected.

I think the movie Wonder Woman is awesome too but I've got a girl crush on Gal Gadot so anything flies :p

[Primal Slayer]

52 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

He's everywhere right now doing press for King Arthur. But since that movie beyond tanked, I'm sure his stock is dropping as I type.

He's an attractive white guy, his stock isn't dropping one bit. Chris Hemsworth is not box office gold outside of the Marvel Universe but he still gets roles.

Other then that I say BRING IT ON BABY! I wouldn't mind seeing Charlie take up the bow n'arrow. We don't really need a Green Arrow movie but let em join a team movie. 

As far as Big Bads, the Flarrowgirl verse should certainly look into doing multiples throughout the season but I dont know if they are that qualified to do something like that. What they need is something that leads up to the big bad. Look at Buffy Season 2, we went from Spike/Drusilla being the big bads to The Judge as a mini big bad and ending with Angelus as the 2nd half big bad with plenty of monsters of the week in between. Thats what they need to do if anything.

[Hiveminder]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

He's an attractive white guy, his stock isn't dropping one bit. Chris Hemsworth is not box office gold outside of the Marvel Universe but he still gets roles.

Other then that I say BRING IT ON BABY! I wouldn't mind seeing Charlie take up the bow n'arrow. We don't really need a Green Arrow movie but let em join a team movie. 

Chris Hemsworth comes off as less of an asshole though. Hunnam is a decent actor and could probably pull off a goatee, though. As long as no one minds that GA is clearly trying to hide his English accent I guess he wouldn't be a bad choice. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Hiveminder

[Primal Slayer]

I say let em keep his accent. 

[statsgirl]

I liked Chris Hemsworth in the Star Trek movie and I thought he was hilarious as the himbo in the Ghost Busters remake.  I'd rate his acting ability above Hunnam'.

[leopardprint]

4 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

As long as no one minds that GA is clearly trying to hide his English accent I guess he wouldn't be a bad choice. 

He has an unusual British accent at that so to most Americans he just talks funny. 

[lemotomato]

Remember how Hawkeye was thoroughly mocked for being the most useless guy on Avengers compared to the others? And he doesn't even have stupid facial hair.

Green Arrow was a C-list DC character before Arrow made him well-known by borrowing heavily from Nolan's Batman mythos and avoiding most of GA's comics background. The only reason why he was added to Smallville was because they couldn't get rights to Bruce Wayne/Batman. I don't see any logic to introducing him into the movies in any significant way when they have more than enough superpowered A and B-list characters to go through. And, well, Batman himself.

[Primal Slayer]

With Batman, you can have him play off of Batman and be the wise cracker that he is instead of having to be Diet Batman that Arrow has. But of course there are plenty of spin off potential in terms of teams to put him on. 

And plenty of people were hyped about Hawkeye before he was brought in to do nothing. 

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Big Bads necessitate hit-and-run narration in shows that run for 22 episodes. The villain makes his appearance, there’s a confrontation, harsh words, hurt feelings, and then he must retreat to later in the season to carry out his hidden agenda, a.k.a. his dastardly plot.

Yes, I think you can really see how Big Bads even with excellent concepts or actors become wornout ground fairly quickly. Chase/Prometheus has basically been doing the same thing for the last 8 episodes and repeating his catchphrase "ten steps ahead..." and since he's been doing the same thing over and over and the heroes have to keep falling for it otherwise the show ends after 15 episdodes.

ETA: 

Another issue is that movie Batman is already the dour, gloomy womanizing billionaire and movie Ironman is already the wise cracking, silly womanizing billionaire. 

If DC wanted to be really forward thinking (hahaha) they would introduce GA as a supporting character in a Black Canary movie. I know it's a laughable idea when they had to terribly photoshop some rando male character into freaking Wonder Woman's posters. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by leopardprint

[GHScorpiosRule]

52 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I only know BA through the cartoons and from the TV show so he's what I expected.

I think the movie Wonder Woman is awesome too but I've got a girl crush on Gal Gadot so anything flies :p

If you're referring to Justice League/JLU, Young Justice-in the first two, the grown up Flash was Wally. The last? Barry was part of the adults and a member of the Justice League. Even Kreisberg, that ass, said that they took characteristics and personality traits from Wally for the CW show's/Gustin's Barry. Then why not make Gustin Wally West? 

But my main point is, Barry shouldn't be a Teen/young adult in the movie. He should be in his thirties.

Edited May 16, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Hiveminder]

If the seasons were shorter, closer to some of the British shows I've seen, the season long big bad would work better. But the US tv season is long, so the writers either need to figure out how to make it work or stop using season long big bads. I don't enjoy watching my favorite characters being made to look dumb and ineffective because there are still three episodes left until they can figure out the master plan. 

[Primal Slayer]

18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

If you're referring to Justice League/JLU, Young Justice-in the first two, the grown up Flash was Wally. The last? Barry was part of the adults and a member of the Justice League. Even Kreisberg, that ass, said that they took characteristics and personality traits from Wally for the CW show's/Gustin's Barry. Then why not make Gustin Wally West? 

But my main point is, Barry shouldn't be a Teen/young adult in the movie. He should be in his thirties.

That's what DC in general does to prop up their Silver Age characters. They have to make them #1 so their sidekicks/replacements dont outshine them anymore.