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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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Trini

Trini

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

FitzSimmons have their whole lives connected. They went to school together and Simmons urged him into fieldwork with her. They didn't bond because of circumstance or trauma but because they just suited each other so very perfectly. Fitz obsessed about bringing Jemma back and could never accept that she was gone. He jumped through a hole into an alien planet to bring Simmons back. Fitz said if he was stuck on a dessert island and a box arrived he'd hope to find Jemma in it (I awwwwwwed and squeeeed so hard in that scene).

Interesting how we all view things differently! I see a bunch of Barry/Iris parallels  just from this paragraph.

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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leopardprint

leopardprint

I defer to you, @Mellowyellow, on Fitzsimmons since I haven't watched AOS in forever, but your description makes me want to binge it! ?

In S3, Oliver went full on "I'm dying alone in a gutter" after Sara dumpster dove but that's his reaction to a lot of things and certainly not because of his romantic relationship with her. (I also could go on for days about O/F so I will stop here ?) 

That's another interesting point about connecting over shared trauma versus shared life experience. I think Iris is also the ultimate symbol of family to Barry, who did have a very traumatic childhood but would Barry love Iris if she wasn't also Joe's daughter? I just never got the feeling he would all other things being equal. I also find the Joe/Barry vs Joe/Iris relationships kinda strange but that's a post for another day. 

@Trini, it is so interesting what people like and dislike about some ships or what they notice/fixate on. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

I quit AoS after they got rid of Mockingbird since it just wasn't as interesting (I clearly have a type) but I heard how good the recent arc is so I came back and I have to say, you should totally binge the last 5/6 episodes at least. It is what Doomworld should've been.

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Hiveminder

Hiveminder

4 hours ago, leopardprint said:

I liked Iris/Eddie so much, I think a lot of it is because the actors are both fairly charismatic and charming, especially together. It was also a mature/adult relationship that had depth.

Disclaimer: I haven't watched a full season of Flash since S1 so ymmv because I don't really like Barry or pants wearing sharks.

I feel like Barry/Iris is fairly shallow and Iris is kind of treated like a reward for Barry's so called good deeds. She's a prize not a person. I get why Barry loves her but not why Iris loves him. They are like a Disney channel level deep high school romance, not even a CW deep high school romance. 

@Mellowyellow, I haven't watched AOS since before they even hinted at going there with F/S, but your description of Fitzsimmons is kind of how I viewed the Oliver/Sara relationship except they both, of course, did have their own epic loves. It's an interesting view of different kinds of relationships and love. 

Despite the damage S5 has done, I appreciated that Oliver/Felicity just really liked and respected each other as people even if they didn't always completely understand each other like Sara or Ray would. They participated in each other's growth even beyond the crazy chemistry. 

(also if the EPs so desperately wanted Oliver to date a reporter, he could have dated Iris) :p 

Well, he is on her list. 

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

24 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I quit AoS after they got rid of Mockingbird since it just wasn't as interesting (I clearly have a type) but I heard how good the recent arc is so I came back and I have to say, you should totally binge the last 5/6 episodes at least. It is what Doomworld should've been.

Do you mean Bobbi?

I LOVED Bobbi!!! We used to shout "Superspy!!!!" whenever she fought onscreen.

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LeighAn

LeighAn

32 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I

In S3, Oliver went full on "I'm dying alone in a gutter" after Sara dumpster dove but that's his reaction to a lot of things and certainly not because of his romantic relationship with her. (I also could go on for days about O/F so I will stop here ?

That wasn't about Sara but what Sara represented. It was Oliver facing his own morality and the path his life could take if he let the vigilante part of him being the dominant part like arguably Sara had. 

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Trini

Trini

(edited)
2 hours ago, Hiveminder said:
6 hours ago, leopardprint said:

(also if the EPs so desperately wanted Oliver to date a reporter, he could have dated Iris) :p 

Well, he is on her list. 

And Barry has already kissed Felicity, we just need a Iris/Oliver kiss to complete the quad. I'm here for it!  ?

Edited by Trini
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statsgirl

statsgirl

I thought Bobbi was great. I might still be watching if she had stayed on.

In real life, I think FitzSimmons would be a solid relationship. But season 1 on the show, I just kept thinking that Simmons could do so much better.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Yeah Bobbi leaving was the reason I quit watching too.  I'll probably still catch the season on Netflix this summer, but it wasn't a priority for me anymore.  

As far as FitzSimmons, they're cute, but...I guess I never had any strong feelings one way or the other on them as a ship.  But then, come to think of it, I'm not sure there was a ship on AoS that I had strong feelings about.  Well, SkyeWard, but those feelings were of the NOTP variety. Lol. :)

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yellowfred

yellowfred

Yeah, I used to be kind of indifferent to Fitz and Simmons as a couple, but the past couple seasons have really soured me on them.  I just feel like a disproportionately high percentage of Simmons' scenes are now centered around her relationship with Fitz.  Like, she came back from spending six-ish months on another planet and 95% of her conversations with other people were about them telling her how much Fitz cared about her.  It got old.

Writing off Bobbi was definitely a mistake, especially since it was for a poorly conceived spin off that didn't even get picked up. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
8 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Im surprised that they havent announced Tom Felton as a series regular for S4. He seems to be enjoying the show.

I get the feeling that they wouldn't be able to get him.  More than that though, I think he'd be squandered in the show if he was around for much longer as just support for Barry and the team.  Someone get him his own show.  I wasn't a big Harry Potter fan but Tom Felton has impressed me with his acting.  

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

That's a good description of how it appears to me too.

I haven't been watching lately so I don't know how they're treating Iris' death threat though. Maybe they're finally giving Iris some agency rather than making it all about the menfolk again.

Nope.  Iris just has to wait for Barry to figure out how to save her.  Or die.  No one has even suggested that she might be able to do anything.  

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Interesting how we all view things differently! I see a bunch of Barry/Iris parallels  just from this paragraph.

The parallels IMO are more of the tell vs show variety.  I think AoS managed to do a better job of showing how well FitzsSimmons fit together and that they were best friends and showed how they made each other better.  And showed how they were incomplete IMO when they didn't have each other.  I think that WestAllen is supposed to be what they showed for FitzSimmons but just never spent the time to build it up and relied on Barry and Iris just saying they were best friends.  

I have to catch up on most of this season of AoS but after season 1, AoS spent time breaking down and rebuilding their friendship and relationship.  They let them grow apart so that them together now makes so much sense to me.  WestAllen relies too much on destiny for me to be completely invested.  I NEEDED to see them more in their best friend status, not just hear about it.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)
16 hours ago, Trini said:

Interesting how we all view things differently! I see a bunch of Barry/Iris parallels  just from this paragraph.

This got me thinking because it's true, there are a bunch of parallels so why do I see the couples so differently?

A big reason for me is what the show lets the female characters do.  I originally didn't think Fitz was right for Simmons because she was so smart and had the potential to be amazing, and he was just there. AoS has a number of really good female characters, like Melinda May of course, and Bobbi, and Simmons was so smart, I was rooting for her to have the best. (I think they blew it with Daisy so I'm leaving her out here.) 

On Arrow, Thea floundered for a few seasons but now she runs City Hall better than Oliver does, as she did Verdant.  Lyla has taken over ARGUS and Dinah seems to be worth more than Curtis and Rene put together.  And then there's Felicity.  On LoT Amaya is good but Sara is the real star of the Waverider. So much to like and admire about these women.  I'm invested in the romantic lives of these characters because I'm invested in them as people.  When I root for their storylines and relationships, it's because I'm rooting for them.

And then there's Iris and Caitlin.  I remember Iris punching out the guy who had bullied her as a kid but it seems like every storyline they had which could have made Iris great on her own was squandered.  She's a reporter but that always ended up being about Barry's story.  I think the best opportunity they had to raise Iris to superhero status was Flashpoint but Iris, instead of being an equal partner, was a prop for Wally's story.

Cisco and Caitlin started out fairly equal but then Cisco started being really useful with his inventions and vibing while Caitlin pretty much ended up being a lab assistant and girlfriend to important male characters.  Why is she the only one trying to avoid getting her meta powers?  I also thought that Barry/Patty/Joe could have been a pretty awesome team fighting metas but the show put more effort into keeping Patty from knowing the truth than into making her a three dimensional character.

When Cat Grant left, so did a lot of the female power on Supergirl.  Alex is still at the DEO but this season her stories have been more about her relationship with Maggie than anything else about her. I don't care about Alex/Maggie because I don't care about Alex this season and I still see Mon El as what taking the Super out of Kara this season.

10 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I have to catch up on most of this season of AoS but after season 1, AoS spent time breaking down and rebuilding their friendship and relationship.  They let them grow apart so that them together now makes so much sense to me.  WestAllen relies too much on destiny for me to be completely invested.  I NEEDED to see them more in their best friend status, not just hear about it.  

Everything about putting WestAllen together was about destiny and Barry's feelings for Iris which he never even started to tell her till she moved in with Eddie.  Unless you came into the show from reading the comics, it's hard to understand not why Iris is fond of Barry, because they've got a lot of history and he's a nice guy,  but why she thinks this is the love of her life, someone who seems to always put himself and what he's feeling ahead of her and her growth and achievements.

11 hours ago, yellowfred said:

Yeah, I used to be kind of indifferent to Fitz and Simmons as a couple, but the past couple seasons have really soured me on them.  I just feel like a disproportionately high percentage of Simmons' scenes are now centered around her relationship with Fitz.  Like, she came back from spending six-ish months on another planet and 95% of her conversations with other people were about them telling her how much Fitz cared about her.  It got old.

I'm sad to hear that.

The reason I ship the couples that I do is because I admire the people who are a part of them.  I wanted Simmons time on another planet to be about making her an amazing person and a scientist, not about her twoo wuv.

Edited by statsgirl
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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

18 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

I'm sad to hear that.

The reason I ship the couples that I do is because I admire the people who are a part of them.  I wanted Simmons time on another planet to be about making her an amazing person and a scientist, not about her twoo wuv.

Don't forget it's one person's interpretation of the show.

Simmons, May, Daisy and Aida have all been forces to be reckoned with this season especially in the later half. 

It's a bloody awesome show! I cried heaps last episode whereas I usually sit there and yoyo between yawning or wishing death upon half of the Arrow supporting cast because I just don't care!

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Everything about putting WestAllen together was about destiny and Barry's feelings for Iris which he never even started to tell her till she moved in with Eddie.  Unless you came into the show from reading the comics, it's hard to understand not why Iris is fond of Barry, because they've got a lot of history and he's a nice guy,  but why she thinks this is the love of her life, someone who seems to always put himself and what he's feeling ahead of her and her growth and achievements.

I found this comment really interesting, especially in contrast to what ended up happening with Oliver/Laurel and Oliver/Felicity. Oliver/Laurel had the destiny argument going for them and pretty much nothing else. Arrow started O/L then eventually transitioned to O/F. Though none of the other shows have a couple that clicked as well as O/F IMO. Flash started with I/E but always had Westallen looming. Barry is kind of like Laurel in that he's the romantic dud but since it's his show and he's a dude, he gets the girl. During S1, Barry moped around about Iris but I was like "Duh, Barry, of course Iris loves Eddie, he's awesome." then they had him go out in a blaze of glory. ?

The idea that just because Barry loves Iris, he gets Iris, like what she wants is secondary because he's a "hero" (with an illegal prison...) and deserves her love as a reward really bothers me. I think I just described Barry as a "Nice Guy." ?

Edited by leopardprint
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

TVLine's May Sweeps Preview and Finale Spoilers (April 24, 2017) -- Arrow section is posted in the New Spoilers thread...

http://tvline.com/gallery/may-sweeps-spoilers-2017-finale-episodes-photos/#!11/the-once-and-future-flash-2/

Quote

THE FLASH
PRE-FINALE: Barry travels to 2024 to find out Savitar’s identity, where he encounters future versions of himself as well as his Team Flash friends. Upon returning to the present, Barry & Co. meet a scientist (House‘s Anne Dudek) who may be the key to stopping Savitar, but they must — literally, and with great difficulty — fight to keep Killer Frost from getting to her first. Afterward, Caitlin’s icy alter ego makes an interesting proposal.
SEASON FINALE (MAY 23): After discovering Savitar’s true identity, Team Flash prepares for a final, epic battle with the God of Speed… while struggling with a major setback. Expect a season-ending cliffhanger that will leave viewers — and the heroes — questioning how they will move forward in Season 4.

http://tvline.com/gallery/may-sweeps-spoilers-2017-finale-episodes-photos/#!23/distant-sun-4/

Quote

SUPERGIRL
PRE-FINALE: The final episodes of Season 2 will test Kara’s friendship with Lena, first by introducing Ms. Luthor’s ex-beau — the dangerous and shady Jack Spheer (iZombie‘s Rahul Kohli) — and then by setting up a potential alliance between Lena and Queen Rhea, whose mysterious plan quickly escalates. Meanwhile, Kara and Maggie will grow closer as they team up to rescue Alex from a life-threatening situation, and James will find a new purpose as Guardian becomes National City’s only hope against a string of deadly attacks.
SEASON FINALE (MAY 22): In addition to meeting the infamous General Zod, viewers should keep an eye out for some returning favorites as the season comes to a climax. “With the return of Superman and Cat Grant (Calista Flockhart first resurfaces on May 15), we are poised for our biggest most exciting episode of the season,” executive producer Andrew Kreisberg says. “Big fights, big guest stars, big emotion — it’s going to be amazing.”

Edited by tv echo
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Quote

SEASON FINALE (MAY 23): After discovering Savitar’s true identity, Team Flash prepares for a final, epic battle with the God of Speed… while struggling with a major setback. Expect a season-ending cliffhanger that will leave viewers — and the heroes — questioning how they will move forward in Season 4.

Kind of sounds like Barry gives up his speed or something or hangs up his suit as the Flash.  It is after all their third season and that's what Oliver did so chances seem pretty good that Barry is moving to Ivy Town.  

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
25 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Kind of sounds like Barry gives up his speed or something or hangs up his suit as the Flash.

 

19 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I think filming for 322 or 323 had Barry leaving the group and going off with his "mother" (or at least the actress), no idea the context, but I would guess it's something speed force related.

Huh, so Arrow S5 and Flash S3 are ending on cliffhangers and both shows will have us wondering how they'll go on (at least that's my guess based on SA's 3 word hint for finale)

I know Flash ends before Arrow but is there any way they could be connected?

My other guess is that Mom Allen is the Speed Force making Barry pay the price and locking him up

Edited by Morrigan2575
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JJ928

JJ928

Can the speed force take Barry forever and give Iris speed instead? I would totally plant my ass in front of the TV for Iris as the Flash, and while they're at it bring in someone actually attractive to be her love interest. A girl can dream.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Honestly, I don't need Barry to vanish.  I just wish The Flash would stop trying to give him deep or emotional storylines.  Just let it be a light, frothy, show that has a bunch of villains of the week, some silly sight gags and then the team goes out for brunch together.  

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ruby24

ruby24

(edited)
1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Honestly, I don't need Barry to vanish.  I just wish The Flash would stop trying to give him deep or emotional storylines.  Just let it be a light, frothy, show that has a bunch of villains of the week, some silly sight gags and then the team goes out for brunch together.  

This is what I wish as well. I feel like Zoom and Savitar were both villains whose storylines DRAGGED the entire seasons. Aside from the Reverse-Flash, which was set up and built into Barry's origin story and everything, I don't think this show can do season long villains. It needs to focus on shorter arcs, villain of the week stuff, and just make it a fun, lighthearted show. Or maybe bring in a villain for the last eight episodes or something, but don't drag him out all season long without doing anything about it. All that does is put an air of impending doom over the season, but no one is actually doing anything about it for months and months.

Edited by ruby24
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Sakura12

Sakura12

Maybe Barry switches places with Jay Garrick and gets stuck in the speed force, hopefully where he relives all his fucks ups over and over again so he could finally learn his lesson. 

They also need to change the intro to "My name is Barry Allen and I will be the fastest man alive someday" 

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tv echo

tv echo

On this ComicBook.com list - Diggle is #3, Felicity is #4, Laurel is #6 and Thea is #9 (Alex Danvers is #1)...

10 Best Arrowverse Supporting Characters
Published on Apr 6, 2017, by ComicBook.com

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statsgirl

statsgirl

People with access to media.

As much as I like the actor, Joe's biases and secret-keeping have made me dislike the character heartily.  I cannot think of what Joe adds beyond encouraging the worst parts of Barry's character.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

42 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm just a bit dumfounded that even ComicBook.com would put Laurel above Cat or Cisco.  

I feel like they've always felt a certain bias towards her. I'm not really surprised lol

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Quote

Warner Bros is making a big move in digital with one of its flagship brands. Warner Bros and DC Entertainment are behind a new, DC-branded service that will debut in 2018 with two high-profile comic book-themed original TV series: the live-action Titans, from the king of the CW DC universe Greg Berlanti, Akiva Goldsman, Geoff Johns, Sarah Schechter and Warner Bros TV, and the anticipated revival of cult animated series Young Justice, from Warner Bros Animation. It will be titled Young Justice: Outsiders.

The DC-branded direct-to-consumer digital platform, in the works for the past several months, marks the second major new service launched by Warner Bros Digital Networks — the division started last year with the mandate of building WB-owned digital and OTT video services — following the recently introduced animation-driven Boomerang. The DC-branded platform is expected to offer more than a traditional OTT service; it is designed as an immersive experience with fan interaction and will encompass comics as well as TV series.

Titans, written by Goldsman (Star Trek: Discovery, Underground), DC Entertainment president & chief creative officer Johns (The Flash, Arrow) and Berlanti (Arrow, DC’s Legends Of Tomorrow, The Flash, Supergirl), explores one of the most popular comic book teams ever. It follows a group of young soon-to-be superheroes recruited from every corner of the DC Universe. In the action-adventure series, Dick Grayson emerges from the shadows to become the leader of a fearless band of new heroes that includes Starfire, Raven and others.

Goldsman, Johns and Berlanti Prods’ Berlanti and Schechter (Arrow, DC’s Legends Of Tomorrow, The Flash, Supergirl) executive produce Titans, from Weed Road Pictures and Berlanti Productions in association with Warner Bros Television.

A live-action Titans was originally ordered as a pilot by Warner Bros TV sibling TNT in 2014, with Goldsman writing the adaptation alongside Marc Haimes. The regime change at TNT put the project in limbo, and it ultimately did not go forward.

WBTV and DC then brought Titans under the purview of Berlanti, who oversees all four DC/WBTV superhero drama series on the CW as well as the CW Seed DC animated series Constantine. Berlanti teamed for what is a new take on the Titans characters with Goldsman and Johns, who also co-wrote The Flash pilot with Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg. There was stong interest in the project from outside, including from an SVOD provider, but Warner Bros opted to make the show a cornerstone of the new DC digital service.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

The network hasn't done anything extra to promote the fact that the shows are coming back from hiatus, as far as I can tell. Everything that has been keeping the Arrow buzz going has been generated by MG (the sizzle reel and Tumblr Q&As) and the paparazzi (spoiling who's filming)

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

The DC-branded direct-to-consumer digital platform,

I'm trying to understand what this platform/channel will translate to.  A paid service?  Just a free online channel?  Will it do a weekly format or a complete season dump like Netflx?  I guess I have a year to figure it out.  

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lemotomato

lemotomato

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

Warner Bros is making a big move in digital with one of its flagship brands. Warner Bros and DC Entertainment are behind a new, DC-branded service that will debut in 2018

Will they release subscriber numbers? I'm wondering if this service will finally settle the "how big of a TV audience are Because Comics fans" question.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
39 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Not surprised. The ratings were never gonna be good this week, not after a long hiatus. 

I guess the good thing about the very likely low ratings for this week's Arrow episode is we'll see a measurable bump for next week.

Edited:  Or maybe not.  I just remembered that 520 is getting preempted in, what was it, Los Angeles?  Big market. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm trying to understand what this platform/channel will translate to.  A paid service?  Just a free online channel?  Will it do a weekly format or a complete season dump like Netflx?  I guess I have a year to figure it out.  

I'm assuming a paid service like CBS launched and one CW contemplated during negotiations with Tribune.

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