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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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quarks

quarks

A) It's decisions to tinker with the timeline, not decision, and B) everyone should be upset with Barry's ongoing "yes, I'll just change your lives without asking, see ya later."

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, Angel12d said:

That sounds messed up. Why do they always do this to the female characters? Yikes.

She's talking about original Iris's response, not necessarily changed timeline Iris's response, but for some reason based on that answer I don't have much hope that changed timeline Iris's response will be any different.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Also, OMG (from a post-ep interview posted here):

This doesn't make me feel good things.

Iris isn't an actual character to them. She's a prop for Barry. It's gross, and a big reason why I can't ship those two. The other is Barry has the sexual appeal of wood, though I love GG. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

In the previously on's shown before the episode, we got a clip of Iris telling Barry to do whatever he needs to do to feel better, as if Iris would ever think Barry would travel back in time and mess with the entire world so he no longer had to feel sad, but hey, it's her fault for giving her blessing. 

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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

I didn't catch on at all that Joe was slacking off at work because he and Iris were estranged.

And, even after watching the entire episode, I still have no idea how FP works or in what ways it can affect Arrow.

I thought Flash's big double-tornado fight with The Rival was stupid.  The tornado manipulation was OK, but then he leapt out like Thea from the LP and just sort of landed on The Rival, who then pronounced him "the fastest man alive." Lame.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

They're bringing on Felicity next week to do some Barry propping too, really hammer it home how everyone should like him. 

Felicity and Iris should do stretches together in prep for all that heavy lifting they do. Yikes yikes yikes.

Edited by Angel12d
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, EmeraldArcher said:

I didn't catch on at all that Joe was slacking off at work because he and Iris were estranged.

He was slacking off at work because he was an alcoholic, presumably because he didn't have sweet Barry to love as a child.

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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

He was slacking off at work because he was an alcoholic, presumably because he didn't have sweet Barry to love as a child.

Right.  That was my impression, but the post-ep article  up thread gave this as the reason:

Quote

The changes for the West family, though, are even greater. Joe (Jesse L. Martin) and Iris (Candice Patton) are on the outs, causing Joe to slack off at work.

Lucky for Joe, Barry has no boundaries and made sure to shower him before whisking him to work.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

21 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

Right.  That was my impression, but the post-ep article  up thread gave this as the reason:

Lucky for Joe, Barry has no boundaries and made sure to shower him before whisking him to work.

I don't think the person that wrote that article actually understood what was going on.  Iris in the Flashpoint timeline when asked why she and her dad weren't close said, well you've seen him, you should understand why.  (Or words to that effect)  

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way2interested

way2interested

I honestly feel like the biggest enemy for this episode was the show itself in that its expectations were far too high. However, the show/press were the ones pushing for those expectations, so it's really hard to feel bad about it. It was kind of meh at best but I don't think it was a terrible episode or anything, just performing extremely under expectations and making a lot of the same problems that it has always been doing.

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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't think the person that wrote that article actually understood what was going on.  Iris in the Flashpoint timeline when asked why she and her dad weren't close said, well you've seen him, you should understand why.  (Or words to that effect)  

Let me have this, OK?  Otherwise, the only explanation is that Joe had a big, fat, gaping Barry-shaped hole in his life but never knew why his actual family couldn't make him happy.  And if that's it, then I'm back to being mad again.

Ugh. This isn't even my show.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

It just felt like a spectacular waste of time? And they showed me an alt reality that I truly don't understand why Barry chose to undo it. I suppose there could be more lasting effects that are revealed next week, but for now if it's just the Iris and Joe thing, why didn't they just have them have a fight over something? Seems like such a non-event to have it make ripples throughout other shows. 

Since Barry was relying on a villain to tell him how to fix the timeline who was then so smug about it not being the same afterward, I'm guessing it isn't Barry's mom dying a minute later that messed up the timeline, but something Reverse Flash did/didn't do or didn't tell Barry to do/not do. Why Reverse Flash would give a shit about Joe and Iris being estranged though, I have no idea. Unless maybe he didn't know exactly what wasn't going to be the same in this timeline, just that something was going to be off. 

47 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

instead of zooming through it. 

nice

Edited by apinknightmare
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

LOL I wanted Barry to damage his relationship with Joe so that Iris and Barry aren't like bro&sis. But nope, It's Joe and Iris's.  I hate this show. I'm almost at a rage quit. 

Edited by tarotx
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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

51 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It was a weak episode. It should've been 2hr premiere so they could've at least properly explore the Flashpoint world instead of zooming through it. 

I agree. They really hurt themselves by making it just one episode. I mean for something that is going to effect many different shows, they should have set-up correctly. 

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ruby24

ruby24

I think this episode was rushed, and probably should have been a two-parter. Or maybe a two hour premiere or something. Too many big things were different and too little time was spent on it.

On a more shallow note, is there some reason why Barry and Iris are only allowed to kiss in the most chaste way possible? Or is it just Grant being uncomfortable with kissing, or what? I feel like we're at the point where we really need to see some proof that they can go for it in that department.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

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I had some real fears about how badly Barry was going to come off in this situation, but somehow it was all even worse than I could have imagined. Congrats, Flash Writers!

gold star.png

The reasons for Barry to try to return to the Original Timeline were so, so weak. It basically came down Wally being injured--but not explicitly about to die--and possibly having lost his healing ability for some unexplained reason (though Barry's resetting the timeline really had nothing to do with this), Joe being an alcoholic (which he could have gotten help for), Cisco and Caitlin having different though not worse lives (and they could have been officially brought into the Flash fold if Barry was super-convinced they needed that for their happiness), and--presented as most important--Barry himself losing his memories of his other life. But...so what if he lost them? He would completely merge with the new timeline, as he should.

The writers really needed to make the new timeline either generally worse for most of humanity (or at least CC), OR way, way worse for most of Barry's loved ones. Instead, as Alan Sepinwall pointed out, they all seemed...kinda better off? Barring those things, there needed to be a big, huge, explicitly life-and-death situation that threatened more than one person in the inner circle to force Barry to choose between killing his parents again or letting X/Y/Z die. Instead, the writers went with Option D: have Barry just decide he preferred his old life, and kill his parents to get it back. OK! gr8 job, gr8 hero, gr8 show.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

56 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

 

On a more shallow note, is there some reason why Barry and Iris are only allowed to kiss in the most chaste way possible? Or is it just Grant being uncomfortable with kissing, or what? I feel like we're at the point where we really need to see some proof that they can go for it in that department.

Wouldn't it be worse to lose passionate kisses to the timeline?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

The more I see of The Flash, the more I think Arrow dodged a bullet when Kreisburg left for The Flash.  He really can't resist his Gary Stu's  -- Cisco is a genius billionaire while all Caitlin gets to do is prompt Cisco to do his brilliant stuff and shill lasik, and everyone else's lives get worse because Barry is sad.

3 hours ago, Angel12d said:

If Reverse Flash still exists does that mean Eddie is still alive?

Eddie has to be alive because otherwise Reverse Flash never would have been born since Eddie's line would have died with Eddie.  But if Eddie's still alive, why would Iris be single as she is presumably this season?

3 hours ago, quarks said:

In other words, Barry messes up the timeline, and other people suffer - in this case, Iris and Joe in both timelines.

But their pain doesn't matter. Only Barry's.  It seems like the whole point of this show is A. make Barry run faster and B. ease his pain in a zero-sum game where everyone else gets hurt.

It was so strange to me that Barry was willing to sacrifice both his parents (mother dying, father spending years in prison) to ease Wally's pain and Joe's alcoholism.  Shows who Barry considers his true family, and it ain't mom and dad.

1 hour ago, Carrie Ann said:

The writers really needed to make the new timeline either generally worse for most of humanity (or at least CC), OR way, way worse for most of Barry's loved ones. Instead, as Alan Sepinwall pointed out, they all seemed...kinda better off? Barring those things, there needed to be a big, huge, explicitly life-and-death situation that threatened more than one person in the inner circle to force Barry to choose between killing his parents again or letting X/Y/Z die. Instead, the writers went with Option D: have Barry just decide he preferred his old life, and kill his parents to get it back. OK! gr8 job, gr8 hero, gr8 show.

I bet Cisco would have preferred his new Flashpoint life.

Iris and Caitlin both had better lives, not having had their True Loves die on them.  Maybe Iris' relationship with her father is worse, and wasn't corrected in the new timeline, but if Wally is around, maybe her relationship with her mother was better.  Barry certainly seemed much happier having his parents alive and finally dating Iris.

I think the big problem with The Flash has become that it's hitting all AK's pre-teen emotional buttons  but it's making less and less logical sense.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Quote

Eddie has to be alive because otherwise Reverse Flash never would have been born since Eddie's line would have died with Eddie.  But if Eddie's still alive, why would Iris be single as she is presumably this season?

Nah, Eobard is just one of those completely illogical time remnants.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

The stuff about Reverse Flash is confusing AF. I hate time travel. I'm curious why McGee rage-quitted.

Agree with everyone that Barry's reasons to go back to the original timeline were the weakest. Oh, well. But according to GATV, this episode was the usual awesomeness of the Flash. If you deem these things awesome, I guess.

Edited by looptab
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Bort

Bort

Okay, I know this hasn't really been enforced in the past, but this thread is really to compare the genre shows/movies with each other, not to discuss The Flash episode itself after or while it's airing. The same applies to Supergirl when it finally airs. Discussion of the episodes themselves needs to be taken to the shows' respective forums. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Even in the comics Flashpoint had some depth, because there Barry spent some time in an alternate.reality that was pretty shitty, and, because production budget wasn't a problem, every character featured was VERY different, almost always for the worse. For example, flashpoint!Oliver was basically arms manufacturer Tony Stark before the cave. And there was a war going on too, for ridiculous motives and all, but it's a good reason to try and change the reality back.

Here it's like they wanted to change stuff around on Flash and Arrow to generate more plotty plot plot, and ~shifting the original reality~ via a comics gimmick was the easiest way to do it. I'm not even expecting them to explain WHY shifting the timeline back got screwed. Some things are different because they are. Poor Diggle gets to randomly have his personal life rearranged, probably because the writers got his name out of a hat or something.

And it seems that the actual legit offscreen reason they had to do Flashpoint -- making Supergirl part of the same reality as the other shows -- isn't even gonna happen? What EVEN, Greg Berlanti.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Hmm, that is a bit low for Flash, especially for a season premiere.

In other news, I was skimming through pursuit23's twitter yesterday and noticed something.

Remember the thread has a spoiler warning so I'm not putting this behind spoilers

 

 

 

He said Arthur Darville hasn't filmed LoT in months. Anyone know if he's on a break to film other commitments  (Broadchurch S3) or did they kill the character off in a shocking twist ala Sara in 301?

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Sakura12

Sakura12

27 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

He said Arthur Darville hasn't filmed LoT in months. Anyone know if he's on a break to film other commitments  (Broadchurch S3) or did they kill the character off in a shocking twist ala Sara in 301?

Part of the plot of LoT this season is looking for Rip, he either leaves or something happens at the end of the first episode. That's why Sara becomes the new leader. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
33 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Last Year the CW was on a larger station in Chicago. I wonder if it played a part? I think it premiered at 1.4 and 3.6 so either way, some loss probably. 

Doubful, getting preempted in Chicago might cause a 2 tenths drop but not just going to a slightly smaller carrier.

ETA: Thanks for the explanation @Sakura12

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Delphi

Delphi

So.   I fell asleep during the Flash partly from exhaustion partly because I found it so dull.   Gotham might make absolutely no sense and Arrow makes me want to throw things but they are not so disengaging that I'm falling asleep on my couch.   

Should I even bother watching again or will I be able to keep up with Arrow just fine?

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tv echo

tv echo

Felicity is in this Flash trailer that appeared at the end of last night's Flash episode...

The Flash | Paradox Trailer | The CW
Published on Oct 4, 2016, by The CW Television Network

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