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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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ruby24

ruby24

6 hours ago, tarotx said:

I think the pressure of the con and probably drinking on the plane home has affected GG.

 

This might be true actually, because it's really rare for him to get in there and fight with people like that, he NEVER does that. I was really surprised to see him getting so flustered and responding to all those obvious trolls in that way. So yeah, maybe somebody had too much to drink on that private plane.

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I haven't seen his tweets, but I really don't think anybody has an obligation to spend time engaging with hateful trolls on Twitter. And maybe CP can take care of herself without any male help, you know.

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manbearpig

manbearpig

Is anyone else worried about Supergirl potentially becoming more connected to the rest of the DC CW shows? It was my favourite of the four last year, and I think that was largely because there was little tying that show to the Arrow-verse. There was just less baggage with Supergirl, where as with Arrow I still haven't really forgotten the series of awful decisions that were made from 3.01 until now. Same with The Flash to a lesser extent, except I don't quite have the affection for that show that I do for Arrow. I feel like Supergirl would be better off if it was as isolated as possible from the rest of the shows, but it probably makes more sense financially to connect everything and do crossovers.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)

Personally I'm really iffy on all changes made to Supergirl in s2 (from what I hear about new characters/probable phasing out of old ones/etc), but I would welcome it becoming connected to the Flarrowverse. I just like cross-overs and shout outs and continuity nods and all that jazz. And I don't even watch Arrow and probably won't watch The Flash after Flashpoint. It's still nice seeing an interconnected universe on screen.

Edited by FurryFury
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Proteus

Proteus

All of the Flashpoint news has really killed any enthusiasm I had for these shows. I hate Flashpoint. Hate it. I wonder especially how unrecognizeable The Flash will be now.

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bijoux

bijoux

3 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Well, they are known for over exaggerating a storylines importance. 

Knock on wood your assessment is correct in this instance.

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kismet

kismet

Everything is fairgame going into this Flashpoint season on all 3 shows. Anything is possible. Speculation is king. Spoilers are useless. And the realities and truths that we have come to know over the past 4 years are completely up in the air at this point. I'm welcoming the madness at this point, because its all you can do. I hope it erases the bad stuff, brings back what I loved and keeps what I like. I fully expect TPTB to take full advantage of this FP reset to do whatever suits their fancy. The characters are at the mercy of the writers' egos. And the audience is just along for the ride.

It's crazy & uncertain times in the Flarrowverses.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

In this Seat42F interview at SDCC, MG talked about how Flashpoint will affect LoT...

-- On whether Flashpoint will affect LoT, MG: "Not in the near term. Um, because in the near term, we're - you know, we're already telling stories about our own characters changing time, so for - I don't know how to make Flashpoint and the time travel the Legends are doing work in the short term.  In the longerish term, ... Flash will definitely have a big impact on Legends, so there's a - there'll be a storyline that'll start to come into play that you'll see a point of connection, but not at the early going."

Edited by tv echo
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FurryFury

FurryFury

Quote

-- On whether Flashpoint will affect LoT, MG: "Not in the near term. Um, because in the near term, we're - you know, we're already telling stories about our own characters changing time, so for - I don't know how to make Flashpoint and the time travel the Legends are doing work in the short term.  In the longerish term, ... Flash will definitely have a big impact on Legends, so there's a - there'll be a storyline that'll start to come into play that you'll see a point of connection, but not at the early going."

I guess it would feature Reverse Flash.

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way2interested

way2interested

Saw the movie last night with a full theater, and I will agree that the last 45 minutes are way better than the first 30. In fact, the first part of the story was so tonally different that the entire theater laughed at pretty inappropriate times, with one of the biggest laughs coming from when 

Spoiler

Batman and Batgirl had sex on a roof, because of a weird pan up to a gargoyle statue staring down on them, along with various follow up questions from all of us as to whether we think that Barbara actually knew that Bruce was Batman since she only ever calls him "Batman" in the movie, which led all of us with very awkward thoughts as to how that moment was...

Other than that, we all actually liked it. The voice-acting was top notch and the story was followed to a T with some fun Easter eggs. There were some slight animation goofs and one joke from the last 45 minutes that made me and my friends cringe, but it all still flowed fine. Although, the second best audience reaction came from the ending when 

Spoiler

it's left ambiguous as to what happens, and abruptly cuts to the credits without music, bringing up a loud comment of "that's it?!?!" from a guy in the crowd, even though that is how the story ends.

I'd recommend the actual part that's based on the Killing Joke, though.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

I didn't stay for the Q&A but I think these reports of the movie are overblown.  Since the DVD hasn't been released, this will be under spoiler bar:
 

Spoiler

 

Yes, Babs and Bruce have sex and then he avoids her.  But that's not all that happens and it's not why she stops being Batgirl.  The story does still depend on her getting fridged so this does add to that but her individual story is enhanced and, in my opinion, for the better.  In the graphic novel, she literally exists to get shot by the Joker.  That's it.  Her transformation into Oracle isn't a part of the story and she has exactly zero POV.  In this movie, her opening narration admits that she found being Batgirl fun, rather than a way to deal with childhood trauma like with Bats.  She encounters a young sociopath (Perry) who intends to take over his family's criminal empire and they have a back and forth that is reminiscent of the one that Bats and Joker share.  Perry, like Joker with Bats, thinks it's fun to fuck with her and so he pulls some shit.  During this time, Babs and Bats clash on how to deal with him, with Bats stating that she's letting Perry get to her and her insisting that's not true.  Again, reminiscent of Bats/Joker, with the hypocrisy on display that also foreshadows the main story. 

The sex is random and more about Bruce Timm's shipper preferences than anything else, and everyone in Ballroom 20 laughed when it happened, but it's not that big of a deal.  And, again, it's not why she stops being Batgirl.  She stops because, after tracking down Bats (who is avoiding her like a twelve year old rather than acting like a man and admit that it was a mistake-which Babs herself knows perfectly well!), she gets into an altercation with Perry where she nearly beats him to death and, while she stops herself, she doesn't like being in that place nor does she want to risk returning there.  So, she returns the outfit and tech and then the main story begins.  It's obvious that it's meant to be a sad irony that the Joker (unknowingly) gets the drop on her only when she's no longer part of the Bat-team but it's also not the end of her story because the movie ends with her becoming Oracle.  

The thing about The Killing Joke, for me, was always that it was a near perfect Bat/Joker story that is marred with the fridging of Babs.  DC turned that lemon into lemonade by making her Oracle and some amazing stories were created from that event but it still starts as a fridging.  The movie is also an improvement on that original mistake.  Would it have been better if they'd rewritten the story and just dumped the fridging?  Sure, but it also wouldn't be The Killing Joke, as it depends on the Joker trying to break Gordon and Bats considering breaking his own rules due to his emotional ties to Jim and Babs both.  I'm actually grateful that the production team wanted to give Babs the POV she's missing the novel.

Basically I would encourage everyone to watch the movie even if you end up in agreement with these reviews.

 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The more I hear about what happens in the comics, the less incentive I have to read them.  And what's with the 20-year age differences?  GA & BC. Now Batman & Batgirl.

I also notice that it's Batgirl and not Batwoman - just like Supergirl and not Superwoman.  Yet teenager Peter Parker's alter ego is called Spiderman.  I don't get it.

ETA: I'm beginning to think that the only reason Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman is because of the alliteration.

Edited by tv echo
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Starfish35

Starfish35

I'm getting the impression that Batman/Batgirl isn't necessarily a comics thing - it's a Bruce Timm thing.  Not sure if that's accurate or not.

Don't have a clue on GA/BC though.  I'm curious - do they still have the big age gap in Rebirth?

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bijoux

bijoux

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm getting the impression that Batman/Batgirl isn't necessarily a comics thing - it's a Bruce Timm thing.  Not sure if that's accurate or not.

That was my impression as well from that review and the quotes.

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Delphi

Delphi

16 minutes ago, bijoux said:

That was my impression as well from that review and the quotes.

Definitely not a comics thing.   I'm sure just starting out Babs probably had a crush on Bruce but it was one sided and not acted upon.   But yeah,  it's not the first time Timm has acted on that.   It was featured in Batman Beyond and Mystery of Batwoman hinted at it.   It's incredibly stupid. 

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quarks

quarks

25 minutes ago, tv echo said:

The more I hear about what happens in the comics, the less incentive I have to read them.  And what's with the 20-year age differences?  GA & BC. Now Batman & Batgirl.

I also notice that it's Batgirl and not Batwoman - just like Supergirl and not Superwoman.  Yet teenager Peter Parker's alter ego is called Spiderman.  I don't get it.

ETA: I'm beginning to think that the only reason Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman is because of the alliteration.

Batgirl and Batwoman both exist and are separate characters. Batwoman is actually the older character, introduced in the 1950s; both versions of Batgirl were introduced in the 1960s. 

Wonder Woman was certainly meant to be an alliterative name, but her creator, William Moulton Marston, who was quite something, and his legal wife and his girlfriend who helped create/inspire the character, very specifically wanted and designed her to be a woman, not a girl.  She was supposed to combine all of the best qualities of women with Superman's strength, and very much designed to be a role model for girls to aspire to be when they grew up. (Lots of S&M in your future, kids!). 

DC has had a few characters called Superwoman running or flying around - sometimes Lois Lane temporarily gaining superpowers - but for whatever reason, DC really has never run with this, possibly because Wonder Woman kinda fills that role already.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

Also there is a character called Batwoman who is different from Babs' Batgirl. I think the same is true for Superwoman and Supergirl but I don't follow those as closely. 

The thing to remember about these characters is that most of them were created roughly 75 years ago. Back then they did have -girl, -woman, -man, -boy as part of the hero names. It's just that, over time, the most popular ones are also the ones that are also the most memorable. And Batgirl ended up being more popular than Batwoman (she got the best writers then and now) so her name lasted. 

It would be great if DC would focus on the lesser Bat characters (Batwoman is super cool in my opinion) but they go with what makes money. All we can hope for are solid supporting roles and maybe a breakout writer who takes one of these almost forgotten characters and brings them back into play like Ed Brubaker did with Bucky Barnes.

ETA: or what quarks just said. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

On July 18, 2016 at 11:50 AM, wonderwall said:

I hope none of these rumors are true... Especially the Oracle one for fandom reasons...

 http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/18/big-honking-san-diego-rumours-for-dc-tv-supergirl-batwoman-oracle-constantine-and-john-wesley-shipp-sdcc-comic-con/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Speaking of Batwoman....none of these rumors ended up being true, did they? Or least none were announced at SDCC.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow EP Wendy Mericle Teases New Four-Show Crossover Details
Lucas Siegel- 07/26/2016
http://comicbook.com/2016/07/26/arrow-ep-wendy-mericle-teases-new-four-show-crossover-details/

Quote

... While talking with Comicbook.com in an interview, executive producer Wendy Mericle teased a little bit of new information about Arrow's crossover with its three younger sibling series.
*  *  *
"Yes we [have a loose plan] for the crossover. It's loose, but we know that it will go in order for the week, you know, Supergirl [Monday], Flash [Tuesday], Arrow [Wednesday], Legends [Thursday]. That's the loose plan right now," Mericle said. She cautioned that things can always change, but they're doing their best to make it one, big, four-day week-long event, all in order.

Mericle is very excited about what these four shows, and the fact that there are now characters and storylines that they can share across them, really means to their creative process.

"It opens up so many story telling possibilities, you have all sorts of things you can play with now that we didn't have before. If it was still just Arrow, we wouldn't be going back to the basics; we never would've moved away from the basics in a lot of ways! Flash opened doors for Metas, and they can do time travel - we're not doing that though!" she said with a laugh. "It is challenging because it gives you more to balance, more to process, but it's more than outweighed by the fact you have so many more ways to tell stories than you did three or four seasons ago."

Edited by tv echo
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bijoux

bijoux

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Didn't even recognize him

 

6 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Wow.  I didn't either.

Me three. I saw it next to a photo of Oliver from the pilot and didn't get why someone was comparing him to a random guy in rags. Oh, Ray, that shirt is not good camouflage. He's gonna become prey so fast.

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Finished Ep 6, Season 3 of Shield last night. LOVED the way they stalled the Fitzsimmons ship!!!! They managed to stall it and make me feel bad for all 3 parties! I didn't curse anyone, didn't rage, I was just sad! *shudders at vile Arrow BMD fiasco*

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Some Flash news at SDCC (what struck me about the cast interviews was how much CV had to say about what's happening with Cisco next season, as compared to how little DP had to say about what's happening with Caitlin)...

SDCC 2016: WE SEE HOW BADLY BARRY BROKE THE UNIVERSE AT THE FLASH PANEL
Bec Heim | July 26, 2016
http://www.4ye.co.uk/2016/07/sdcc-2016-we-see-how-badly-barry-broke-the-universe-at-the-flash-panel/

Quote

With Barry having saved his Mom’s life, ripples are going to be felt throughout the whole universe. Barry isn’t close with the West family, Cisco is wealthy, and something messed with Diggle’s timeline over in Arrow. Barry still have his speed in this new timeline, which is a major departure from Flashpoint, but doesn’t seem to be a hero. Instead, it falls onto Wally West as Kid Flash. Wally really loves being a hero.
*  *  *
What Danielle Panabaker and Candice Patton want, however, is more chances for ladies to be awesome on the show. Both of them are really hoping to explore the various female friendships. Candice is definitely down for Iris to take a cross dimensional trip to hang out with Supergirl over in National City.

SDCC 2016: Interviews with the Cast of ‘The Flash’
By Andrew Santos on July 27, 2016
http://www.withanaccent.com/2016/07/27/sdcc-2016-interviews-cast-flash/

Quote

... As evident in the Comic-Con promo, Cisco Ramon is now seemingly the CEO of his own corporation that either rivals or has taken the place of S.T.A.R. Labs. Carlos Valdes, who plays Cisco, didn’t get into specifics about his character’s changes, but assures that they will be big and audiences will see them in the premiere episode. Valdes comments on seeing Cisco take on a more “central role” within Team Flash, and confirms that the relationship between Cisco and his brother will come into play in episode two. As far as where Valdes would like to see the character go, he hopes to continue the Chronicles of Cisco tie-in web series and hopes to play off Jeremy Jordan‘s character on Supergirl in an upcoming crossover.
*  *  *
Danielle Panabaker, who plays Cisco’s scientist counterpart Caitlin Snow, is very excited for the upcoming third season as the Flashpoint story line comes into form. Panabaker really enjoyed playing around on Earth-2 last season because of the differences from Earth-1, so being that Caitlin and her friends are now residing in a completely alternate reality, Panabaker looks forward to exploring this new world in season three. She comments that it’s sad that these characters no longer know each other like they once did, but looks forward as an actor to the challenges the new roles pose. While the return of Killer Frost, Caitlin Snow’s Earth-2 doppelganger, has not been confirmed, Panabaker also hopes to take on that role again.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Geoff Johns Confirmed as DC Entertainment President
JULY 27, 2016 1:48pm PT by Graeme McMillan
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/geoff-johns-confirmed-as-president-915028

Quote

Following initial online reports, The Hollywood Reporter has confirmed that Johns now holds the title of president and chief creative officer at the Warner Bros. division, answerable to Diane Nelson, who remains president of DC Entertainment, president of Warner Bros. Consumer Products and president and chief content officer of Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment.

Johns received the new title when he was promoted to head up DC's movie division alongside Jon Berg back in May. Already on board to develop the stand-alone Batman movie with Ben Affleck, it has since been revealed that Johns co-wrote the screenplay for Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman with Allan Heinberg from a story by Johns, Heinberg and Zack Snyder.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The SDCC Fandom interview with MG, as LoT EP...

-- Per MG, the Legends will be acting like the Time Masters to protect time.
-- Per MG, LoT will be more like Arrow and Flash in terms of having a Big Bad and central mythology for the season but also more standalone episodes.
-- On the number of LoT episodes, MG: "We have an order for 13, with the potential for a back 9."
-- Per MG, Flashpoint will not affect LoT in the short term, because they're already dealing with changing time and they're basically trying to relaunch the show and that's enough without having to deal with another show's timeline.  However, there will be a connection with Flash later on in the season.  But Arrow will be impacted by Flashpoint.
-- MG talked about the new Legends in S2 of LoT.
-- On the possibility of a 5th DC show on The CW, MG: "I'm sure there will be. It would not surprise me in the least. Five nights. Would not surprise me in the least."

Edited by tv echo
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