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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I just new eventually one or more characters/actors would get contracts to appear as a regular in the Flarrowverse as opposed to just one show. I would not be one bit surprised if this is something they don't eventually try out for someone like Colton/Roy or Katrina Law/Nyssa or even Curtis/Echo. I mean it's very in keeping with comic books to have characters who jump around like this.

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

They killed Snart and kept the Hawks.  Damnit.  I love Sara but my enthusiasm for this show just died. 

Don't give up just yet. He will be in the Flarrowverse so we should get at least some of him on Legends next season. Also, they definitely said Savage is done this season and Carter was never a regular. So I wouldn't be surprised if he either dies or something about killing Savage saps their powers so they just go off to live their last life together or some other such nonsense. Given the addition of three characters next season (and I think they are all heroes so far) - I doubt seriously the Hawks stay full-time. We might see another version of one or both of them in the past, but not as members of the team I don't think.

tangerine95

tangerine95

Wow can't believe they killed him.I'm kinda confused about how much he'll be apearring on LoT and Flash but it does sound like that floater thing.I think it's a mistake and LoT really needs him since he seemed to be the most popular character after Sara. Yeah if they keep the Hawks and no Leonard as a regular, I'm definitely done with the show tbh.

nksarmi

nksarmi

1 minute ago, tangerine95 said:

Wow can't believe they killed him.I'm kinda confused about how much he'll be apearring on LoT and Flash but it does sound like that floater thing.I think it's a mistake and LoT really needs him since he seemed to be the most popular character after Sara. Yeah if they keep the Hawks and no Leonard as a regular, I'm definitely done with the show tbh.

With Supergirl moving to the CW - I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow find a way to give us Citizen Cold for a miniarc on Legends or Flash. And there's Earth 2's Mayor Snart. Plus the team can snag a 2014 version of Leonard if they need to. And finally, they can also say that the Oculus thing flung him through space and time when it exploded and he landed in the time he was last thinking of (probably a future with Sara) and retrieve him from that point. There are loads of ways they can bring him in.

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Artsda

Artsda

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/12/legends-tomorrow-snart-death-wentworth-miller

 

Quote

EW has confirmed that Miller still has a series regular contract, but his episodes will be spread across multiple DC titles on The CW, specifically The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow. Lest anyone forget,Legends deals in time travel, so Snart could certainly return. In other words, don’t freak out: We will see Captain Cold again!

I guess they saw how popular character he is and is spreading him out? He'll probably appear even on Supergirl.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

There are plenty of ways to bring him on again. Since they opened the universe even more with Supergirl joining the ranks. They specifically mentioned Legends and Flash where both shows have the ability to time travel and jump through universes. I suppose he can show up on Supergirl's Earth as well. 

I would rather see Earth 2 Mayor Leonard Snart over BS (which is how she will forever be known to me now). 

Edited by Sakura12
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statsgirl

statsgirl

From the Deadline article:

Quote

Legends already is recruiting two new team members for next season, casting a male and female new regulars.

Hopefully this means that the Hawks are gone next episode.

It occurred to me watching today's episode that the Hawks are like the flashbacks on Arrow -- the show flows so much better and is more exciting without them.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Yeah, that's the reason I'm holding out hope that the Hawks are still going to be gone.  Carter was never a regular, and I wondered when that was first posted whether it meant we would lose another regular besides Kendra.  I guess so.

I have to admit, I had a little bit of a premonition that this might happen after reading the episode summary, talking about Snart deciding he can be a hero after all.  But I dismissed it as foolish, since he's easily one of the most popular characters on the show.  

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Yeah, Wentworth is the one that talked about the Legends gig being limited, as he was signed short term. So I should have known >.< 

Sucks to be Sara. I know it was in the past but last week she said Goodbye to Nyssa, this week she loses Cold and then she'll learn about Laurel. 

Edited by tarotx
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Lokiberry

Lokiberry

(edited)

There's some deadline article that says some gibberish about how he signed some kind of contract making appearances in the other flarrowverse shows, but's he's not going to be a regular on LoT.  I don't know what that means if he's actually dead. I'm not sure I actually care either. Snart is dead and the Hawks are alive. That pretty much sums up the flarrowverse: they killed Sara and kept Laurel. They killed Snart and kept the Hawks.

I think I just need to transfer my obsession to Gotham. At least  I know they won't kill Bruce .

Or what everyone else said. Sorry, I'm just demoralized.

Edited by Lokiberry
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statsgirl

statsgirl

A little more information on the two new characters next season on LoT from TVLine:

Quote

A male in his late-20s to mid-30s is being sought to play a guy who grew up in the shadow of his World War II hero grandfather and has used a Han Solo-like facade to conceal his insecurity — until, that is, the development of super powers enables him to love up to his family legacy.

Also being cast for Legends Season 2 is the female member of an elite paramilitary team living in the 1940s. An African-American, she is scrutinized in her time for both her gender and race and thus has worked twice as hard to be a perfect soldier. That said, she blames herself for — and aims to avenge — the death of a team member for whom she had repressed feelings.

Hopefully this means the Hawks will be gone.

Starfish35

Starfish35

I think it does.  At least I'm going to hold onto that until next week's episode crushes my hopes.

But LoT had eight regular cast members, and that's not counting Carter or Savage.  I don't think the ratings justify adding even one more.   So I think it's a fairly safe bet that the new male character is replacing Snart, and the new female character is replacing Kendra.

Of course, I suppose they could get rid of someone else, say Jax and Stein, and still keep the Hawks, but hopefully they're not that foolish.  

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

6 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Arrow's season 5 promo will consist of manips and fanvids on the CW_Arrow YouTube channel.

So basically what we have know?

 

 

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

From the Deadline article:

Hopefully this means that the Hawks are gone next episode.

It occurred to me watching today's episode that the Hawks are like the flashbacks on Arrow -- the show flows so much better and is more exciting without them.

Unless they fix the Thanagarian Invasion problem then the Hawks might stick around since the Thanagarians ARE the Hawks!!

1 hour ago, benteen said:

I'm glad to hear he'll still be in the Arrowverse.  I'd love to see an appearance on Supergirl myself.

Poor Supergirl...that is quite a demotion to go to the CW but I'm looking forward to more crossovers with the Arrowverse.

I'm kind of hopeful actually.  There was an aspect of being on CBS that I think held back the story telling on Supergirl.  I think they dumbed down some of the superhero stuff since the audience was going to be of an older generation and that's gone now.  Plus on the CW they might be allowed the freedom of not worrying about canon as much (cause JImmy is NOT working).  If they move the show to Vancouver then MelissaB.'s husband likely would be around anyway.  They had chemistry during his time on the show.  Dump Jimmy and bring Cat Grant's son on full time.  :D

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Thanagarian invasion?  What? 

(I haven't seen tonight's episode yet.)

ETA: Never mind, I've seen the episode now.  Well. That does put a significant damper on the "losing the Hawks" theory.  Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy? :(  They're the worst part of the show, and we're going to center another season's plot around them? (Since I'm assuming next season's arc will be thwarting the invasion, and naturally Kendra and Carter will be key to that.)

Never mind me, I'm in despairing worst case scenario mode right now. 

Edited by Starfish35
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kismet

kismet

It's been a pretty demoralizing last 24hrs for me in terms of TV, I guess the rotten cherry on top is killing Snart. At least they kept him as a floater, have no idea what that will translate to, but I guess I just have to roll with it. I don't think WM liked being tied down to a show, so if this more flexible contract keeps him in the Flarrowverse, I guess a traveling Snart is better than no Snart at all.

But seriously, we were this close to no Hawks. I found myself having a similar feeling watching LoT that I did with the other Flarrowverse shows - some episodes highlight the fact that some characters are truly dispensible. I went a whole episode and completely forgot that Kendra wasn't on the ship, just like I forgot that Caitlin wasn't in the Lab. It's now been a few weeks and I still don't miss LL, and even her brief shout-out was once again the most awkward & unnecessary part of the episode. I say cut the baggage and reallocate those resources.

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tv echo

tv echo

Media articles on what's been mentioned above...

The CW picks up Riverdale, Frequency and No Tomorrow (but cancels Containment)
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/riverdale-frequency-no-tomorrow-picked-893446

ABC kills Marvel's Most Wanted
http://www.4ye.co.uk/2016/05/abc-kills-marvels-most-wanted/

ABC cancels Agent Carter
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/agent-carter-cancelled-season-2-abc-1201773285/

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nksarmi

nksarmi

10 hours ago, tarotx said:

Yeah, Wentworth is the one that talked about the Legends gig being limited as he was signed short term so I should have known >.< 

Sucks to be Sara. I know it was in the past but last week she said Goodbye to Nyssa, this week she loses Cold and then she'll learn about Laurel. 

He did kind of talk like that in his interviews so I should have known too, but I was in denial because I like him so much. And damn it if "spreading him around" doesn't mean I'm going to have to watch at least a few episodes of Flash next season. Hopefully he will mostly appear on Legends.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

10 hours ago, Lokiberry said:

There's some deadline article that says some gibberish about how he signed some kind of contract making appearances in the other flarrowverse shows, but's he's not going to be a regular on LoT.  I don't know what that means if he's actually dead. I'm not sure I actually care either. Snart is dead and the Hawks are alive. That pretty much sums up the flarrowverse: they killed Sara and kept Laurel. They killed Snart and kept the Hawks.

I think I just need to transfer my obsession to Gotham. At least  I know they won't kill Bruce .

Or what everyone else said. Sorry, I'm just demoralized.

Maybe I'm just all Pollyanna right now, but I'm not worried. He now has the kind of contract that I honestly thought was going to be coming for several actors once Legends got announced. I would not be surprised if we started hearing about this more if all the shows go on a few more seasons - actors like Colton and Katrina Law who might be contracted as "regulars" but spread across three shows. It's very fitting - I think he's just the first to end up with that kind of contract.

I'm not 100% sure our Snart is dead (if Earth 1 Robbie or Eddie pop up on Flash at any point in time - I will not be surprised) but there are a lot of other ways for them to bring Snart back if they want to.

nksarmi

nksarmi

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Thanagarian invasion?  What? 

(I haven't seen tonight's episode yet.)

ETA: Never mind, I've seen the episode now.  Well. That does put a significant damper on the "losing the Hawks" theory.  Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy? :(  They're the worst part of the show, and we're going to center another season's plot around them? (Since I'm assuming next season's arc will be thwarting the invasion, and naturally Kendra and Carter will be key to that.)

Never mind me, I'm in despairing worst case scenario mode right now. 

Nope - I refuse to believe that is anything more than an Easter Egg. Nopity, nope, nope, nope. :)

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Meh - not sure I agree with this article as to what went wrong with Supergirl.  When Arrow debuted in 2012, it was described as more of an action drama than a superhero show and appealed to more than the "comics-loving community"...

Here’s why ‘Supergirl’s’ move to the CW is the win-win scenario it deserved all along
By David Betancourt May 13 at 7:30 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2016/05/13/heres-why-supergirls-move-to-the-cw-is-the-win-win-scenario-it-deserved-all-along/ 

Quote

“SUPERGIRL’s” move from CBS to the CW, which was announced Thursday ahead of this month’s TV network upfronts, shouldn’t be looked upon like a demotion to the minors after a year in the broadcast “big leagues.”

If anything, a new season on the CW could be just what the show needs to soar highly creatively — and become more in touch with its characters’ comic-book roots.
*  *  *
“Supergirl’s” biggest enemy during the Girl of Steel’s first season was the expectation for big ratings worthy of CBS. That, in turn, led to a creative approach that resulted in episodes that were not sharp or faithful enough for much of the comics-loving community.

For a comics-adapted show to succeed, the general audience must be intrigued, of course, but fanboys and fangirls need to feel as if the mythos of a character is there, too. “Supergirl’s” first season felt fairly well-tailored to cast a wide viewership net. But despite the “S” on her chest and the welcome presence of the Martian Manhunter, “Supergirl” didn’t have the fun, geeky vibe that has made such other CW superhero hits as “Arrow” and “The Flash” so enjoyable to watch for fans of comic-book culture.
*  *  *
Now, though, our hopes are raised that we will see more crossovers with “Arrow,” “The Flash” and perhaps even “Legends of Tomorrow.” It would be a waste of a shared network universe to have “Supergirl” on the CW and not team her on occasion with the superhero shows already in the CW’s stable.
*  *  *
Producer Greg Berlanti should now have more freedom to play with some comic-book scenarios that might have been too complex for CBS’s general audience.

Edited by tv echo
FurryFury

FurryFury

Supergirl had way more of a "fun" vibe than Arrow ever did. Not that it's good, I personally prefer shows to be more grounded. 

Not sure if a move to CW will help the show. But maybe a lower budget will force them to rethink their approach.

Also, please get rid of Jimmy Olsen, or at least the romance. It's just so, so dull. In fact you can just go and leave only Kara, Alex, Hank, Cat and either recurring Max Lord (if his show is not picked up) or working for DEO Winn (or a new techie character). And get rid of CatCo, there's bound to be a way to let Cat still participate without Kara having to work for her. It will free up some budget right there.

arjumand

arjumand

9 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Thanagarian invasion?  What? 

(I haven't seen tonight's episode yet.)

ETA: Never mind, I've seen the episode now.  Well. That does put a significant damper on the "losing the Hawks" theory.  Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy? :(  They're the worst part of the show, and we're going to center another season's plot around them? (Since I'm assuming next season's arc will be thwarting the invasion, and naturally Kendra and Carter will be key to that.)

Never mind me, I'm in despairing worst case scenario mode right now. 

I'm really fricking pissed off. Keeping the Hawks and losing Snart? WTF? They're USELESS. And boring. Why, Leonard? When he first approached the thingy and knocked out Mick I thought he was going to freeze it in place so they could all get away.

I am disappoint, LoT.

FurryFury

FurryFury

This was actually a pretty good episode. The show is swinging really wildly, the last two were almost unwatchable.

I'm afraid that without one of the most popular character, if not the most popular, LoT will drop even more. They really should do something with Kendra, her absence actually improved the team dynamic and Ray's character like whoa. 

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

For the first time ever, I recorded LoT so that I could fast-forward and watch only the Sara/Snart parts.  I've seen people mention the annoying way that Wentworth Miller has been speaking in the show, but I just figured it was the same way he talked on Prison Break.  OMG, the voice that he is using is rage-inducing.  That right there turned me off the show...I couldn't put up with that for sixteen whole episodes!!  I guess I fast-forwarded right through his death, because I didn't even know that he had died until I read this thread.  Oops.  LoT was a one and done for me, I'm afraid.  Too much terribleness.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

This was probably one of LoT's best episodes (besides Snart dying, which was more of an actor requirement). They should have had more episodes like this or the fun ones like the Western one. Kendra and Carter being gone for most of the episode could've also led to it's improvement. 

Wentworth's speaking voice is annoying but I got used to it after the first few eps. 

My love of Sara never wavered, however the most surprising development I've had over these last few episodes was my love of Mick. I really thought he was a pointless addition when he was announced, but he turned out to be the most improved and interesting characters.

Edited by Sakura12
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

29 minutes ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

For the first time ever, I recorded LoT so that I could fast-forward and watch only the Sara/Snart parts.  I've seen people mention the annoying way that Wentworth Miller has been speaking in the show, but I just figured it was the same way he talked on Prison Break.  OMG, the voice that he is using is rage-inducing.  That right there turned me off the show...I couldn't put up with that for sixteen whole episodes!!  I guess I fast-forwarded right through his death, because I didn't even know that he had died until I read this thread.  Oops.  LoT was a one and done for me, I'm afraid.  Too much terribleness.

Yeah, I really, really don't like his affected speech thing. I similarly hate Emily Deschanel's speech thing on Bones and Stana Katic's on Castle. It's really bad when you watch a couple in a row. I do, though, at least understand why people like him (hey, I liked him back in Buffy S2 when he played a fishboy). I have zero understanding, none, nada, why they won't ditch the Hawk chick. She's utterly terrible, and she even makes other decent actors terrible.

nksarmi

nksarmi

Guys there is still another episode to go - we have no confirmation that they are keeping Kendra and Carter. Heck, I'd be shocked as hell if they did. I don't understand why so many people are assuming they will stay just because Snart "died" in this last episode. This wasn't the finale. There is another episode to go.

I think we knew all along that they wouldn't defeat Savage until the last episode, but we also know the EPs have said he is a one and done villain. Since they have tied the Hawks to him and I think it's pretty damn clear, the Hawks have not been well received, I expect they will go as well. There are so many reasons why this might be the case:

-Carter was never a regular so there is no reason to believe he will be back.

-CR had posts on social media that imply she might be done with the show.

-They have hired another actor already and are casting for two more regulars. There is no way this show can keep Kendra and Carter and two more actors.

-WM's earliest interviews hinted at his character not being tied to the show whereas DP's indicated he would be. And frankly, I should have known that Cold was too popular for Flash to let us keep him all the time. I think this is what the EPs and the actor wanted, but I do expect to see him on Legends enough to make people happy (and I love the way he talks lol). I don't think him going means anyone else - especially the Hawks - are safe.

And most importantly - I honestly don't think the hinted at Thenegarian invasion 300 years in the future means more Hawks. If it's anything more than an Easter Egg, I think it will mean the team needs to undo the damage the Time Masters did and put certain heroes on the path to realizing their destiny so someone OTHER than Savage can handle that invasion when it comes. Like Rip said - it's insane to think VS is humanity's best hope.

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way2interested

way2interested

22 minutes ago, looptab said:

This is a Vanity Fair article raving about Flash's latest episode amd what the DC Cinematic Universe can learn from it.

I didn't necessarily think that the last Flash was the best, since I kind of thought it was a bit heavy-handed. I thought it was a pretty good episode, but it didn't connect with me emotionally as much as Barry's talk with his dying mother in 123 (which I even thought was a great accomplishment since I thought that episode was dragging and slightly irritating up until that point), so I kind of got more bored than engaged when watching it. Not to mention the whole idea that we haven't heard Barry's mom mentioned in months (I get that that was part of the point, that Barry was refusing to deal with his grief, but with no setup up to this previously, it just came out of nowhere for me). Idk, I keep seeing everyone raving about how this episode brought them to tears, where I was just sitting and waiting for Iris to come back.

Plus, I feel like articles and opinions like these kind of miss certain points about the problems with MoS and BvS. Like, I don't think it was necessarily the tone or the heavy dark feelings of either that really caused them to fail. It was really lack of balance and poor storytelling (plus, at least imo, a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy with audiences). You can be really dark as long as the story is good and that it is balanced with determined and developing characters. Arguably, s4 of Arrow is darker than s3 (mass murder of 10K+ people, Laurel's death, Diggle killing his brother, Felicity's paralysis, etc.), but it's been balanced by hopeful characters (notably Oliver this time around). I guess you can say that this Flash episode partially did that, with Barry overcoming his guilt and grief over his mother's death, but I'm not quite exactly sure what they exactly mean by tone of that Flash episode versus BvS, other than calling BvS "oppressively heavy."  

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kismet

kismet

What I got out of this week's Flash is I like GG reading children's books, that was the highlight of the show... and then they went and dissed the book in the last few minutes, so I don't quite know what they were going for. But honestly, that is par for the course this season with the Flash. I will say though finding a way to make "Weekly storytime by BA & friends" happen, seems preferable to 90% of Flash this season.

As for Supergirl failing because it wasn't comic-y enough, imo is just someone writing their own personal agenda. The show was better when it was being its own story drawing from the comics and from character building storylines. In fact, when they skew towards the comics because of comics is when the show falters. Like their insistence in trying to get SG & Jimmy together when it is clear that there is no chemistry between them at all. Or every time they mention Superman, when they know contractually they will never be able to show him. It just teases the audience and makes it look like your show/character is not enough.

Supergirl was definitely fun & geeky. In fact it was very reminiscent of Flash s1 with its funny & geek, that most of the time I thought I was watching the same show only with a gender flip. I have no idea how it will do on the CW because I don't think it being on the CBS is the reason it didn't do well. I think it was a bad night and perhaps did better in streaming. I think CBS moved it to the CW because they can justify keeping it going by the mythical CW algorithm that looks beyond just ratings.

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