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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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wonderwall

wonderwall

It was pointed out on Tumblr that the Smoak Technologies logo consists of two arrowheads pointing in opposing directions.

 

tumblr_o35v16HRW71tkld6so2_500.gif

 

Oliver DID say that Smoak Tech was "Our company" so Oliver obviously was a part of the company... Something REALLY bad must've happened for Felicity to leave her company and Oliver. Maybe Diggle's death did it?

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

Maybe after the uprising, everyone on the arrow team was dead except for Oliver and Felicity.  Oliver and Felicity are married with kids.  Oliver lost his arm and couldn't fight anymore.  He was outed as the Green Arrow, so he felt no one was safe with him.  He felt like he failed his city, his arrow team, his family, and he felt like he couldn't protect Felicity anymore, so he sent her to Central City to work with Barry's team along with the kids because he wanted them to be safe.  Felicity wouldn't want to leave, but she needed to protect the kids.  Felicity, Lyla, and baby Sara are probably superheroing it up in Central City with next gen Barry's team waiting for Oliver to get his head out of his ass and come see his family.  Poor Oliver...lonely in the lair...all by himself...drowning in self-pity.

Edited by ComicFan777
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

It was pointed out on Tumblr that the Smoak Technologies logo consists of two arrowheads pointing in opposing directions.

Almost like it's a yin and yang and where have we seen that before? ;) I doubt it was intentional (unlike the arrowhead motif) but it is kind of cool to think about anyway.

Poor Oliver...lonely in the lair...all by himself...drowning in self-pity.

Did anyone doubt that this would be Oliver Queen's fate? As I've said a lot lately, Oliver is his own worst enemy.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

Even in another timeline, being a Wilson makes you batshit crazy.

 

Hey, he wasn't batshit crazy until Mirakuru! It's not in the genes!

 

It seemed weird that they kept Ray in the ship while Sara went around crying for her city - when she never seemed to care that much about it, to me.

 

She returned there and helped save random women (and probably not just women, I doubt she would turn away if she'd seen a crime) without telling her family or friends. She sold her soul (metaphorically) by returning to LoA in exchange for its help against Slade's minions. She definitely cares for the city. I don't see how anybody can say otherwise.

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looptab

looptab

She returned there and helped save random women (and probably not just women, I doubt she would turn away if she'd seen a crime) without telling her family or friends. She sold her soul (metaphorically) by returning to LoA in exchange for its help against Slade's minions. She definitely cares for the city. I don't see how anybody can say otherwise.

Honestly, I had forgotten about her saving women when she first came on the show. I saw her return to the LoA as a deal she made to save her family - in danger because of Slade. I'm not saying she didn't give a damn about the city, it was just in relation to how they presented the two characters. Ray was hellbent on saving Starling/ Star City (at least that was the premise).

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I can't say about Ray, as I haven't seen s3 of Arrow, but Sara even saved some random person from a fire (I cringed, it was so cliched) before going with LoA in s2 finale. I think she definitely cared for the city. Hell, even after her resurrection, she still went on purely on instinct and attacked abusive men. Yeah, she couldn't control herself with that victim who looked like Thea, but that was the soulless-ness speaking. 

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

Ray was hellbent on saving Starling/ Star City (at least that was the premise).

 

I always got the impression that Ray wanted to save the city because he wanted recognition for something in the history books - he really wanted people to give him a big Thank You! for saving the city, rather than something more noble. 

 

Edited by ComicFan777
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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

I thought Ray did it for Anna...or do we not talk about her anymore? He certainly didn't.

 

Completely forgot about that...I guess because of him falling in love with Felicity and flirting with Hawk-girl.  Yeah, I guess he wanted to do some good for Anna - my bad.

 

Edited by ComicFan777
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

I can't say about Ray, as I haven't seen s3 of Arrow, but Sara even saved some random person from a fire (I cringed, it was so cliched) before going with LoA in s2 finale. I think she definitely cared for the city. Hell, even after her resurrection, she still went on purely on instinct and attacked abusive men. Yeah, she couldn't control herself with that victim who looked like Thea, but that was the soulless-ness speaking. 

Yeah, I guess what made it weird for me was that with Ray, they showed us repeatedly that he wanted to save Star City, and he tried to do so both on the business front and later the heroing front. On the other hand, Sara didn't seem concerned with the bigger picture, or trying to make the city better, but rather she took care of the immediate issue at hand.

 

I may ship Sara and Cold... Dammit

 

I'm warming up to Sara and Rip. Shhhh

Edited by looptab
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Sakura12

Sakura12

Sara cares about the people in the city not necessarily the city as a place. She went around beating up rapists when she first arrived back. And this episode Sara wanted to help her friend Oliver and Diggle's son.

Sara likes helping people, where they are doesn't matter to her.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I'm thinking that Sara Diggle was probably as pragmatic as her mother and Felicity and left the city after it killed her loved ones and it was apparent that it didn't want to be saved. Connor stayed because dedicating yourself to a lost cause is what you do when you think you failed your father and need to honor him, similar to season 1 Oliver.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Hey, he wasn't batshit crazy until Mirakuru! It's not in the genes!

 

She returned there and helped save random women (and probably not just women, I doubt she would turn away if she'd seen a crime) without telling her family or friends. She sold her soul (metaphorically) by returning to LoA in exchange for its help against Slade's minions. She definitely cares for the city. I don't see how anybody can say otherwise.

 

Did the show explicitly say why Sara returned to Starling City? I always thought it was to look in on her family, on Laurel and Quentin, in between her assassin jobs and that she stepped in to save women from rapists and such because, well, she was already there, and what she may or may have not suffered on the Amazo. Hence, the "no woman should suffer at the hands of men." That came across to me as more personal. As for returning to the LoA to help save Starling, I thought it was because, well, she felt guilty in playing a role (i.e. she was the one who started the lie) in the whole Slade/Shado/Oliver fiasco. What I'm saying is Sara being out there fighting beside the Arrow came across to me as more of a, well, "I'm friends with Oliver, let me help me him" more than a love for the city. Of course, YMMV.

 

I always got the impression that Ray wanted to save the city because he wanted recognition for something in the history books - he really wanted people to give him a big Thank You! for saving the city, rather than something more noble. 

 

I didn't get that impression ... until this season when Arrow needed to give him a reason to ship off with the LoT crowd. The way he was presented earlier in S3 was as somebody who really wanted to save the city with his company and as a vigilante. Didn't he like vow to take a $1 salary and invited other CEOs and inventors to do the same to help rebuild the city? Also, he wanted to give excess PT's excess power to the masses for free. So I could see him being disheartened now at seeing the ruins of Star City (was it called that, or Starling in this timeline?) 

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Delphi

Delphi

She came to check on her family after the undertaking, but also ended up meeting Sin and Laurel was going through shit so she kinda just ran away from the league instead of returning like she promised. .

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KirkB

KirkB

First off, AyChihuahua you're not the only one, I liked Blade 3 also, though Ryan Reynold's abs weren't part of the reason for me. That said, until you mentioned it I'd forgotten Purcell played Drake/Dracula in that.

 

As for Sara and Ray, while Ray may have cared for the city as of late he had no real connection to it. Sara was born and raised there. So I would expect her to be a lot more emotional about it's ruin that Ray.

 

While I get John junior picking a new name since he didn't believe he deserved the one he was born with, I think they made a mistake naming him Conner Hawke unless it was just meant as an easter egg for fans. Otherwise it precludes them using it for Oliver's son, but then again given the impressive lack of interest in the kid we saw maybe that's a good thing.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

First off, AyChihuahua you're not the only one, I liked Blade 3 also, though Ryan Reynold's abs weren't part of the reason for me. That said, until you mentioned it I'd forgotten Purcell played Drake/Dracula in that.

 

As for Sara and Ray, while Ray may have cared for the city as of late he had no real connection to it. Sara was born and raised there. So I would expect her to be a lot more emotional about it's ruin that Ray.

 

While I get John junior picking a new name since he didn't believe he deserved the one he was born with, I think they made a mistake naming him Conner Hawke unless it was just meant as an easter egg for fans. Otherwise it precludes them using it for Oliver's son, but then again given the impressive lack of interest in the kid we saw maybe that's a good thing.

Yay, one other person!

 

I thought that guy was fine as Dracula, but I mostly enjoyed the cool archery stuff (that movie is why I bought a bow) and I ADORED Ryan Reynolds puncturing of Blade's ridiculous hybrid-pain sooper-seriousness. Don't get me wrong, Wesley Snipes is great as Blade, especially the action stuff (I believe he is a very accomplished martial artist IRL), but I've always enjoyed having someone puncture that kind of self-seriousness.

 

Also, I GD loved the vampire Pomeranians. Don't judge me!

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Sara came back to Star City because she was running away from the League. According to Nyssa, she left in the middle of night without saying goodbye. Sara came back to look for the daughter of a man she promised she'd take care off, Sin and to make sure her family was okay. She beat up rapists because they were rapists and deserved it and probably for personal reasons since she had a visceral reaction to rapists when she had no soul. She then went back to the league to get their help to take down Slade's army. 

 

In this episode Sara was willing to be left behind in the dystopian future to help Oliver and Connor. Sara's always been about wanting to help people that need help. Ray helps people so he can get accolades for himself. He's like Barry that way, they don't seem to care too much about the people in the city unless said people are praising them for being heroes. 

Edited by Sakura12
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looptab

looptab

I'm SURE Sara was dying to bang a 60 year old one armed dude who looked like he hadn't showered in over a decade.

Jfc.

Imagine how that would have played out. Would he have talked her into it? Asked nicely since he was lonely? Just jumped her? The possibilities.

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Delphi

Delphi

From 2.04:

Oliver: Why did you come back?

Sara: The earthquake:

Oliver: Because you wanted to make sure your family was safe. But now you're still here, watching over them. Protecting them.

I'm sure making sure Sin was safe was important to her to, especially since she saved her from those rapists. But I'm pretty confidant that wasn't the original reason. She just used the opportunity to achieve multiple goals.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

My mind hurts from thinking about time travel and thinking about the future that was talked about in the Flash newspaper. Because that was the future before Barry time travelled a bunch of times right? So was he always supposed to turn back time to get to that specific future? Because the first time with the wave everyone would have been dead, and then again in the 4x08 crossover. So in both of those futures, everyone would have been dead. So what future did that newspaper come from? And is it possible that that future no longer exists because of the time travelling? 

 

Like I said, I do not understand time travel and I think I may have just confused myself even more. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I'm not a fan of Sara, so she's actually one of the reasons I'm not watching LoT. And strangely enough, I actually do like Ray and enjoy him. But he wasn't enough to tempt me. Nor were Victor Garber, Wentworth Miller and Arthur Darvill, whom I adore. But I'm really curious about Oliver and Diggle's son's dynamic. 

 

I DO like Sara a lot, and she is a big part of the show.  However, if you like Victor Garber, Wentworth Miller, and Arthur Darvill as well as BR's Ray - you'd probably love this show.  Stein, Cold, Heat, and Ray have had some outstanding combinations in the first few episodes.

 

I'd actually say this episode - while fun for an Arrow fan - was not the best example of what the show can be.  Between Old Man Oliver and John Diggle's son, the show's strength (pairing up different members of their oddball cast) was not highlighted in this episode.  That's not to say that I didn't enjoy the episode, but it might not be the best sampling is all I'm saying.  Especially since I think MG had a hand in the writing on this one where I think it's pretty clear that he's left it to others to write some of the other episodes. 

 

I think the dialogue is definitely crisper and more fun in the other episodes that have aired to date.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

I have to agree with that. This ep had some really clunky dialogue, probably moreso that some of the previous ones. I did like it a lot, but most of it had to do with my fondness of older seasons of Arrow and Sara. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Here's what I found odd about Ray's behavior in this LoT episode - he seemed strangely uncaring and incurious about the fate of a woman he once loved (Felicity).  Instead, he spent his time on the ship lightheartedly thinking about hooking up with Kendra.

 

FYI, final adjusted ratings for "Star City 2046" are 0.9 and 2.47...

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-thursday_26.html

Edited by tv echo
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Genki

Genki

Just find it odd. Because they made such a big deal of it that LOA is important for exactly these kind of events. Also the LOA ring is gone. I am just confused lol.

 

I can't imagine LOA lead by MMmaking a difference in regards to Vandal Savage, since he was the one that resurrected him during the cross-over.

 

First off, AyChihuahua you're not the only one, I liked Blade 3 also, though Ryan Reynold's abs weren't part of the reason for me. That said, until you mentioned it I'd forgotten Purcell played Drake/Dracula in that.

 

As for Sara and Ray, while Ray may have cared for the city as of late he had no real connection to it. Sara was born and raised there. So I would expect her to be a lot more emotional about it's ruin that Ray.

 

While I get John junior picking a new name since he didn't believe he deserved the one he was born with, I think they made a mistake naming him Conner Hawke unless it was just meant as an easter egg for fans. Otherwise it precludes them using it for Oliver's son, but then again given the impressive lack of interest in the kid we saw maybe that's a good thing.

 

 

Ray was not a Starling City native, so Sara has the stronger connection, this is why it annoyed me that they renamed it to Star City in memory of Ray. 

 

I like that John Diggle Jr exists and he is the new Green Arrow, I don't mind that his is "Conner Hawke" (I have no allegiance to Comics), but I am irritated that by doing so, they have made the William/Baby Mama Drama even more pointless!

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

I like that John Diggle Jr exists and he is the new Green Arrow, I don't mind that his is "Conner Hawke" (I have no allegiance to Comics), but I am irritated that by doing so, they have made the William/Baby Mama Drama even more pointless!

 

The only things I can see possibly making this William-related are:

- Assuming Grant Wilson never talked to Slade (he never got out of supermax), Grant somehow got his hands on William's tape from Oliver so that he could out Oliver as the Green Arrow in the future.

OR

- William is somehow connected to Rip Hunter (I think MG was asked twice about it and was unclear if there is any connection - I think one time he implied connection and another time he implied coincidence...so not sure).

 

Edited by ComicFan777
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

The only things I can see possibly making this William-related are:

- Assuming Grant Wilson never talked to Slade (he never got out of supermax), Grant somehow got his hands on William's tape from Oliver so that he could out Oliver as the Green Arrow in the future.

OR

- William is somehow connected to Rip Hunter (I think MG was asked twice about it and was unclear if there is any connection - I think one time he implied connection and another time he implied coincidence...so not sure).

 

Yeah, Rip's middle name is Jonas, I think. MG definitely said that was just a coincidence.

 

If they EVER, EVER play out a scenario in which that idiotic video (seriously, what kid would want that shit...sorry kid, couldn't be your dad (also your mom's a hag), but here's a video!) outs his identity to a villain, or the media, or the police or whoever...

 

I WILL ACTUALLY DIE LAUGHING!!!

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I thought Ray did it for Anna...or do we not talk about her anymore? He certainly didn't.

Actually we do talk about her on LoT some so that's nice, but he also kind of copped to the fact that everything he did after Anna was more about avoiding that feeling of helplessness that he felt when she was killed - as opposed to something noble.  I love how they are writing Ray on LoT - sure he's a boy scout and overly optimistic, but they also show he has a HUGE desire to matter.

 

Which I think if you are really super smart and were probably told you were going to change the world your whole life - it makes sense that your ultimately goal in life would be to MATTER.  I think Ray's journey is about figuring out what that means and how to accept himself regardless of how much he "matters" to history.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

No, I agree that last night's episode of LoT was not the best example of what the show is. I didn't hate it, but I didn't finish it all excited about how much I'm enjoying this show, like I have the last few episodes.

I think part of it is that it felt far too much like an Arrow episode, and being currently pretty burned out on Arrow, I was absolutely not in the mood for a second dose this week.

It wasn't horrible. I'll probably post more thoughts in the episode thread eventually. I enjoyed Sara. I thought the conflict between Cold and Heatwave was interesting, and am wondering where that's going to go. Cold has actually surprised me by becoming my second favorite character behind Sara, and I'm enjoying watching him become more than just a crook out for himself.

I didn't enjoy the "high-school" love triangle that flared up out of nowhere. That was bizarre.

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Delphi

Delphi

Rip's son is named Jonas. Which is for Jonas Quantum a MG created character. There is no connection to Oliver.

Insert an eye roll. I would pay him to stop using names from his other projects in the Flarrowverse.

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Guest

Guest

Just watched a bts video that Caity posted on her Twitter (can't link on my iPad right now) and she's so awesome, totally doing her own stunt. Oh what could have been. Haha.

Seriously though, pleased she's thriving over on Legends.

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kismet

kismet

I thought Ray did it for Anna...or do we not talk about her anymore? He certainly didn't.

Yes, we are allowed to talk about Anna on LoT. :) Ray is actually a much better character on LoT. I actually enjoy him, not just tolerate his presence. I will admit though that last night's episode was a little wonky and seemed like he might slip back into Arrow bad RP. MG did write the show, so perhaps that is why. I don't like MG's interpretation of RP, it was always pretty horrible. The writers room needs to keep MG far away from RP's characterization.

 

I have no idea why they decided to go with a love triangle, especially with the 2 worst actors on the show and the one who's sex appeal is not his strength. I hope that was a one time thing for the show. The ship is small, I don't really need a love triangle to make things weird. Then again, I blame MG for some reason he is really invested in RP getting laid.

 

I will say that LoT is just a barrel of entertainment. It's enjoyable for all the right reasons. Thurs nights episode I do not think was reflective of it at all. Honestly, it felt like an Arrow episode just brought over to Thurs night, with a time travel deadline & ship added in. For me it was the best episode of this Flarrowverse week of big episodes. Episode 4&5 are the most reflective of everything that is good about the show. I recommend watching those.

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feverfew

feverfew

No, I agree that last night's episode of LoT was not the best example of what the show is. I didn't hate it, but I didn't finish it all excited about how much I'm enjoying this show, like I have the last few episodes.

I think part of it is that it felt far too much like an Arrow episode, and being currently pretty burned out on Arrow, I was absolutely not in the mood for a second dose this week.

 

This. I gave up on Arrow last season (too many thing that made my blood pressure go up), and this episode really felt like an Arrow show. Too many "little" easter eggs for Arrow fans and not enough of that devil-may-care attitude and fun which for me has come to be LoT's trademark. Hopefully it'll be back to form next week.

 

In Marvel-news, have you guys seen who they've cast as Iron Fist? I'm disappointed. I would have liked an asian actor in that part (yeah, I know he's white in the comics, but it's in danger of so much icky misappropriation) and it would have been a perfect opportunity for some much needed diversity.. That said, I don't totally hate the choice of actor - even if I'm a bit meh on his role in GoT.

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bijoux

bijoux

So I watched the thing. Too bad somebody didn't put that final scene in the lair on Youtube so I didn't have to. Oliver teaming up with Diggle: Next Generation was sweet. As was the copy that. Awww. The kid must have picked it up while Dig and Lyla were settling who would do the dishes and take out the trash.

 

Seeing it in higher resolution, did they cake on the old man make up or what? That looked more 80+ than 60. I hope Sara tells Oliver to invest in some face creams once she gets back to the present day.

 

I know you guys have been saying that the young part of Firestorm is bad, but man, having seen him now, he is SO, SOOO bad. I do not even know what the whole thing about snooping around a woman who's just lost her freaky soulmate or whatever and the unknown to her, retirement age son was about. I guess it's because Sara's the only other woman on board and she was busy. Ray was actually perfectly fine until Stein meddled. Stein should go stand in the corner.

 

I'm really not feeling Wentworth Miller's vocal choices. They're just so hoaky. Thing is, when he was quietly observing everything at the bar, I connected more with his character than when he talked. Where's his down coat? Heatwave still looks mentally impaired, but I enjoyed how happy he was with his fur coat.

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Sara wasn't the main star in the pilot episodes nor episode 4. Though she had some memorable scenes. The show really uses it's cast well. And Stein did a bad bad thing in the pilot but that is the only thing that's vile. He is arrogant but he was that way on the Flash as well. He has had some fun moments. Ray has been played for humor a lot of the time but he's much more likable and liked now. Snart and Rory have been really interesting characters if you can deal with the way they talk-which some people can't. Jax and Kendra have been the least interesting characters for me but Jax is growing-maybe. Wish they had him with his natural British Accent. Rip has been exposition boy but he has had some great scenes with Sara and with Snart.  I personally Love Sara and Loved Arthur Darvill on Doctor Who. I wasn't a big fan of Wentworth Miller but I'm enjoy Snart. 

 

The main problem the show is Vandal and you have to fan wonk some time issues. Plus, imo the delivering of dialogue. Some of it's that they are written a bit wordy but I don't think delivering lines is the acting strength of any of these actors. Imo Caity Lotz's strength is the physical stuff and body language. Not just the stunts but conveying emotion in her face and body as well as a natural presence with a lot of actors. She does have enunciation issues that might be a problem for some. 

Edited by tarotx
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bijoux

bijoux

My one issue with Caity Lotz is her tendency to purse her lips when Sara is out of sorts. I swear to God I started watching her scenes in S2 with a hand raised to cover her mouth. It actually helped, because I connected better with the character when I focused on her eyes. And it was present in this episode of LoT. I also saw her in the 70s episode where it wasn't present because Sara was relaxed and the pursing doesn't come out then.

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Guest
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