Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[ruby24]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm going to put my bets on Barry and Iris getting married at the end.  Like @wonderwall said, it sounds like they're looking at this as a two-night event, not four specific episodes.  So I'm thinking it's not going to be so much "ok this is the Supergirl portion, this is the Arrow portion, this is The Flash portion, this is the Legends portion" as it will be all one thing divided into night one and night two.    So I think they probably all get together for Barry and Iris's wedding, crisis happens, crisis resolved, Barry and Iris get married, the end. 

Of course now that I've said that, it won't happen that way st all. :) Lol.

I agree, except I think Barry and Iris are more likely to get married on The Flash, not Legends. I think maybe they'll think they've vanquished the villain or whatever at the end of Arrow, the wedding happens on The Flash, and then the villain comes back for the final attack on Legends. Maybe he crashes the reception or something. I could see that.

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, ruby24 said:

I agree, except I think Barry and Iris are more likely to get married on The Flash, not Legends. I think maybe they'll think they've vanquished the villain or whatever at the end of Arrow, the wedding happens on The Flash, and then the villain comes back for the final attack on Legends. Maybe he crashes the reception or something. I could see that.

Maybe. It could happen that way. But I still think they'll get married at the end.  We'll see.

[Trini]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

The crossover events does bring in viewers to other shows and a big reason for that is because of the Flash. I agree with you. But that doesn't justify making the entire crossover about a couple that people who watch SG/LoT/Arrow don't really give a damn about. ...

We still don't know what exactly is going to happen in the crossover episodes, though. Only one event (wedding) has been confirmed so far, and I don't think it's going to be the "entire" plot -- but we still don't know that either. A lot of things happened in last year's crossover; there's room for multiple stories.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

We still don't know what exactly is going to happen in the crossover episodes, though. Only one event (wedding) has been confirmed so far, and I don't think it's going to be the "entire" plot -- but we still don't know that either. A lot of things happened in last year's crossover; there's room for multiple stories.

IDK when people say that:
SG: Before the rehearsal
Arrow: Rehearsal Dinner
Flash: Wedding
LoT: Reception

it seems like they want it to be a big part of it. I simply don't think it will be centered around WA a couple that most people in DCTV don't care about. Just like most people don't care about Olicity/Karamel/other ships. I mean it's great to have theories - but I just don't see this theory panning out.

Edited September 3, 2017 by wonderwall

[ruby24]

Just now, wonderwall said:

IDK when people say that:
SG: Before the rehearsal
Arrow: Rehearsal Dinner
Flash: Wedding
LoT: Reception

it seems like they want it to be a big part of it. I simply don't think it will be centered around WA a couple that most people in DCTV don't care about. Just like most people don't care about Olicity/Karamel/other ships.

I could easily see this, and it's also easy to see each episode focusing mostly on its own show's characters in this scenario, with pop-ups and parts for some of the others, like they usually do. It'd actually be pretty simple to structure it that way

[lemotomato]

After being told over and over against about how comic shows are about comics and action and not romance, I find the idea that the whole crossover will be dedicated to the WestAllen wedding incredibly amusing. I'd love to see TPTB try to sell this to the comic dudebros they're trying to get to tune in.

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

After being told over and over against about how comic shows are about comics and action and not romance, I find the idea that the whole crossover will be dedicated to the WestAllen wedding incredibly amusing. I'd love to see TPTB try to sell this to the comic dudebros they're trying to get to tune in.

Don't you know? Comic canon romance is the only one that's acceptable

[Trini]

10 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IDK when people say that:
SG: Before the rehearsal
Arrow: Rehearsal Dinner
Flash: Wedding
LoT: Reception

it seems like they want it to be a big part of it. I simply don't think it will be centered around WA a couple that most people in DCTV don't care about. Just like most people don't care about Olicity/Karamel/other ships. I mean it's great to have theories - but I just don't see this theory panning out.

I don't know who is saying that, but I don't think the crossover is will be centered around the wedding. And the couple getting married is still unknown.

The wedding can just be the reason everyone is in one place when [insert comics threat here] happens, and then that's the big problem that takes 4 shows to solve.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

After being told over and over against about how comic shows are about comics and action and not romance, I find the idea that the whole crossover will be dedicated to the WestAllen wedding incredibly amusing. I'd love to see TPTB try to sell this to the comic dudebros they're trying to get to tune in.

A four-hour action-packed wedding extravaganza is right in my wheelhouse, even if it involves Barry. The only thing that could put a cherry on top of this sundae is if he gets ditched at the altar and they do a close up of him crying about it for a minimum of 3 minutes. 

[lemotomato]

I can picture the crossover promo issue of Entertainment Weekly being a spread talking about Iris's wedding dress, the color scheme they picked, and the decorations at the venue, which special guest star is going to officiate, where WestAllen are going on their honeymoon. Profiles of the bride and groom and their families. Maybe a feature about past superhero weddings. It's gonna be great! Romance is in air!

[bijoux]

I am just thinking about how this will not make any sense in the foreign markets. Because in my limited experience, those don't buy other shows just for the crossover episodes. One station here airs Arrow, another The Flash. (I don't think any are airing LoT or Supergirl.) When the crossover rolls around, they only air "their" show's episode. Which l think will be way confusing if this year the shows turn out to be so intertwined as they are assumed they will be. 

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

I don't know who is saying that, but I don't think the crossover is will be centered around the wedding. And the couple getting married is still unknown.

The wedding can just be the reason everyone is in one place when [insert comics threat here] happens, and then that's the big problem that takes 4 shows to solve.

I agree with this, except that I'm pretty confident the wedding is WestAllen at this point.

[Primal Slayer]

I would imagine they would just skip those episodes all together if its to confusing to air.

[bijoux]

Why would they? They pay for a full season, why wouldn't they use everything they bought and paid for? 

[Primal Slayer]

I miss the days of Tvguide adverts. 

Just now, bijoux said:

Why would they? They pay for a full season, why wouldn't they use everything they bought and paid for? 

If it doesn't make any sense on it's own why would they bother airing it and confusing people? 

[apinknightmare]

Do they include the crossovers on the DVDs? The last season I bought a pass for on iTunes was 4 - they included the crossover for The Flash on there (and it messed up the numbering, which made me want to set it on fire even more). I imagine that's probably the most they care about wrt keeping them in order for people to follow. 

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Do they include the crossovers on the DVDs? The last season I bought a pass for on iTunes was 4 - they included the crossover for The Flash on there (and it messed up the numbering, which made me want to set it on fire even more). I imagine that's probably the most they care about wrt keeping them in order for people to follow. 

Yep they do.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Why would they? They pay for a full season, why wouldn't they use everything they bought and paid for? 

Technically they'd get all they paid for, since the wedding would be on another show. 

[Xander]

22 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IDK when people say that:
SG: Before the rehearsal
Arrow: Rehearsal Dinner
Flash: Wedding
LoT: Reception

it seems like they want it to be a big part of it. I simply don't think it will be centered around WA a couple that most people in DCTV don't care about. Just like most people don't care about Olicity/Karamel/other ships. I mean it's great to have theories - but I just don't see this theory panning out.

I don't mind a wedding happening but I don't need the whole crossover centered around a wedding. I just hope it takes place when it takes place but we're not thinking about a wedding for four episodes. Also, as we know, not all cast members will crossover but all the main cast should be in the crossover episodes for their own shows so I'm not sure how that happens if it's about Barry and Iris getting married. Like, why should Alex care about that?

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Why would they? They pay for a full season, why wouldn't they use everything they bought and paid for? 

Whether they air it all or not, I don't think they take foreign markets into account when they do something like this.  They only care whether it makes sense for the CW market.  

[wonderwall]

Just now, Xander said:

I don't mind a wedding happening but I don't need the whole crossover centered around a wedding. I just hope it takes place when it takes place but we're not thinking about a wedding for four episodes. Also, as we know, not all cast members will crossover but all the main cast should be in the crossover episodes for their own shows so I'm not sure how that happens if it's about Barry and Iris getting married. Like, why should Alex care about that?

She wouldn't... But the argument that I guess that's made for the entire crossover being centered around the wedding is that Flash has the highest ratings therefore it's OK and people will accept it I guess? IDK It still makes no sense to me.

[lemotomato]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Do they include the crossovers on the DVDs? The last season I bought a pass for on iTunes was 4 - they included the crossover for The Flash on there (and it messed up the numbering, which made me want to set it on fire even more). I imagine that's probably the most they care about wrt keeping them in order for people to follow. 

No, the crossover episodes from other shows were not included in the most recent DVD sets. They're releasing the crossover as its own set.

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Whether they air it all or not, I don't think they take foreign markets into account when they do something like this.  They only care whether it makes sense for the CW market.  

Maybe I'm being dense here, but shouldn't DCTV also care? It's not like foreign markets are handed over these shows, they're paying customers. It feels like another argument in favor of sticking to the original crossover's set up, something light where characters get together and have some fun and minor angst while fighting baddies. That way it's a fun addition to the rest of the season, not a befuddling hour what happened here/what did I miss?

Maybe it's all just me wanting them to go back to that concept.

[Primal Slayer]

The UK is releasing the crossover separately but I dont see anything listed for a US release. It's smart to do but they should release it shortly after the episodes air.

[quarks]

33 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I'm good with it. I like the idea of having all the other show's characters gather for a big wedding. At first I wasn't totally sure, because I know that even if their wedding gets the focus of The Flash's episode, because it's a crossover they will need to give characters like Oliver and Kara, etc. some screen time as well, and I didn't know if I'd want that to be a distraction.

But I actually don't think it will be too much. I don't watch Arrow anymore, but having watched last year's 100th episode, that was very much a celebration of that particular show and I think they will do the same for Barry and Iris in the Flash episode of their wedding.

Fair enough.

As an Iris fan, as opposed to a WestAllen fan, I'm not delighted by a crossover wedding for multiple reasons, but I appreciate your point of view.

 

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I am just thinking about how this will not make any sense in the foreign markets. Because in my limited experience, those don't buy other shows just for the crossover episodes. One station here airs Arrow, another The Flash. (I don't think any are airing LoT or Supergirl.) When the crossover rolls around, they only air "their" show's episode. Which l think will be way confusing if this year the shows turn out to be so intertwined as they are assumed they will be. 

 

This came up at the 2017 Worldcon - several international fans said that they'd skipped the crossover episodes because of just this. It's not just an Arrowverse problem, either.

 

14 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I would imagine they would just skip those episodes all together if its to confusing to air.

 

Assuming the station is aware that these episodes are too confusing to air. 

 

13 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Why would they? They pay for a full season, why wouldn't they use everything they bought and paid for? 

 

You'd think, but not necessarily. International stations skip episodes of U.S. television seasons for various reasons. 

[Chaser]

A crossover centered around a couple I don't care about and a show I don't watch? 

Lol.

Didnt they say there isn't much overlap in the audiences? Or as much as you would expect?

This feels like a rehash of the problems of the last two crossovers.

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

A crossover centered around a couple I don't care about and a show I don't watch? 

Lol.

Didnt they say there isn't much overlap in the audiences? Or as much as you would expect?

This feels like a rehash of the problems of the last two crossovers.

Ratings still go up for all shows so The Flash crowd will at least follow the other shows which is what they are after.

[JenMD]

19 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I am just thinking about how this will not make any sense in the foreign markets.

Or syndication.  TNT doesn't include the crossovers in their rotation.  Although the S4 Flash ep was listed when Arrow first started running, I'm not sure if it ever aired or not.  You couldn't pay me to rewatch those eps.  I did notice it wasn't on the schedule in later airings of S4 because the ep numbers all went back to normal from being one off. 

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Do they include the crossovers on the DVDs? The last season I bought a pass for on iTunes was 4 - they included the crossover for The Flash on there (and it messed up the numbering, which made me want to set it on fire even more). I imagine that's probably the most they care about wrt keeping them in order for people to follow. 

S3 DVDs didn't have the crossover, S4 did.

[Trini]

17 minutes ago, Xander said:

I don't mind a wedding happening but I don't need the whole crossover centered around a wedding. I just hope it takes place when it takes place but we're not thinking about a wedding for four episodes. Also, as we know, not all cast members will crossover but all the main cast should be in the crossover episodes for their own shows so I'm not sure how that happens if it's about Barry and Iris getting married. Like, why should Alex care about that?

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

A crossover centered around a couple I don't care about and a show I don't watch? 

Lol.

Didnt they say there isn't much overlap in the audiences? Or as much as you would expect?

This feels like a rehash of the problems of the last two crossovers.

 

We don't know the plot of the crossover yet.

[Starfish35]

8 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Maybe I'm being dense here, but shouldn't DCTV also care? It's not like foreign markets are handed over these shows, they're paying customers. It feels like another argument in favor of sticking to the original crossover's set up, something light where characters get together and have some fun and minor angst while fighting baddies. That way it's a fun addition to the rest of the season, not a befuddling hour what happened here/what did I miss?

Maybe it's all just me wanting them to go back to that concept.

I don't know enough about the financial aspect of foreign market/syndication distribution to make an argument one way or the other on whether they should care.  I just don't think they do care.  I think their main focus is their primary market - the CW audience.  And like it or not, these things do bring in the ratings. 

But then again, personally I like the crossovers.  Or rather, I like the idea of the crossovers/team-ups.  I don't think the last two have been done particularly well, but I still am always intrigued by the possibilities.

[Primal Slayer]

I think the only time the foreign market is overly important to them is when they have a show that is bigger overseas then it is state side IE: Reign & Beauty and the Beast.

[Mellowyellow]

Now that the sting of the Olicity break up is over I can see the humour in the s4 crossover. 

Olicity broke up in the alternate timeline and soon after the world exploded. Heee

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Now that the sting of the Olicity break up is over I can see the humour in the s4 crossover. 

Olicity broke up in the alternate timeline and soon after the world exploded. Heee

Well the Flash does tend to follow quite a few similar beats as Arrow :)

[Xander]

12 minutes ago, Trini said:

 

We don't know the plot of the crossover yet.

I know that. That's why I said I hope that isn't what the crossover is about even if there is one. 

[leopardprint]

Isn't it kind of curious that the CW/WB would allow two DC weddings in one year? I'm wondering if that makes it less likely that Olicity is having a wedding at all because it would be kind of messed up if they didn't invite Barry and Iris. Or perhaps there will be another mini-crossover? Oh the perils of a shared universe. 

Edited September 3, 2017 by leopardprint

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

Isn't it kind of curious that the CW/WB would allow two DC weddings in one year

Oliver and Felicity wouldn't count. Not comic canon, after all.

[LeighAn]

My two cents:

A.A wedding doesn't mean a marriage. 4x16 of Arrow had a full on white wedding with a dress and a church and everything but that didn't mean Olicity got married.

 

B. I find the idea of the crossover being entirely all about Barry Iris and The Flash arrogant so I'd hope the crossover would be about ALL the characters not just two special puppies.

 

C. Regardless of who is getting married I still hate the idea of a crossover wedding and I'm not feeling very enticed to want to watch if it is just a four part wedding extravaganza especially for a couple I'm not a big fan of.

 

Id hope they'd find more inspiration from other comic team ups and have the team bond through more casual means like the party in Avengers or the Chinease dinner in The Defenders save the wedding for their own show. Weddings are going to draw viewers regardless of if they are in the crossover Ep or not so to me it seems like the network has a lack of faith that they choose a wedding to be the focal point of the one episode of the year that will already rate well. 

[Primal Slayer]

That explains why CW doesnt care about Arrow anymore.

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Isn't it kind of curious that the CW/WB would allow two DC weddings in one year? I'm wondering if that makes it less likely that Olicity is having a wedding at all because it would be kind of messed up if they didn't invite Barry and Iris. Or perhaps there will be another mini-crossover? Oh the perils of a shared universe. 

Except that Olicity is the only actual confirmed wedding. Stephen David and Emily confirmed it. Barty and Iris haven't been confirmed but have a lot of evidenced pointing to it. 

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

That explains why CW doesnt care about Arrow anymore.

Could you please elaborate?

[leopardprint]

I should clarify I mean olicity still getting married but not having a wedding.

[statsgirl]

If it's about the wedding, I don't see how it's going to make sense to start on Supergirl, unless it starts with Alex/Maggie wedding plans.  Mon El will go as Kara's plus one but no one else on that show gives a fig about a WestAllen wedding since they've never met Iris and only Winn and James know Barry (and we know James doesn't matter).

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

I don't watch Arrow anymore, but having watched last year's 100th episode, that was very much a celebration of that particular show and I think they will do the same for Barry and Iris in the Flash episode of their wedding.

Speaking for myself, I hated the 100th episode precisely because it wasn't a celebration of Arrow but of a fantasy the writers had for the series. It was the worst episode of the season, easily beating out the gun episode .

I'm chiefly opposed to this year's crossover because I'm afraid they're going to do that again.

[apinknightmare]

If they celebrate Barry and Iris's wedding the same way they celebrated Arrow's 100th, then Barry would actually marry Patty Spivot while Iris was off with Eddie somewhere. 

[LeighAn]

Just now, leopardprint said:

I should clarify I mean olicity still getting married but not having a wedding.

Oh. Honestly I've thought about this. Them eloping and being married when the show returns and to be honest I'm not opposed but with things we do know, the fact that they have a dinner, the fact that Oliver potentially asks her to move in or gives her a key to his place (if that's how we interpret Stephens latest spoiler) and the fact that I believe Stephen and David both said we would see a wedding makes me think the writers are going to show all the steps for Olicity.

 

And hand to my heart if the wedding turns out to be Olicity in the crossover I'd still hate it even for a couple I do like. Probably less then WA but still not what I'd want for my ship. So I'm hoping Olicity are either married already or their wedding happens on their own show. What I'm fearing is that Barry and Iris are planned to be wed in the crossover choose not to and so Olicity get married instead or even worst the double wedding scenario.

[Primal Slayer]

11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Could you please elaborate?

They can't appease comic fans. But I was just being sarcastic so nothing insightful. 

[statsgirl]

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If they celebrate Barry and Iris's wedding the same way they celebrated Arrow's 100th, then Barry would actually marry Patty Spivot while Iris was off with Eddie somewhere. 

Those are actually pairings I could get behind.  I know WestAllen is comic canon but iris deserves better (like Eddie) and Patty called out Barry on his B.S. while Iris just props him endlessly.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, statsgirl said:

Those are actually pairings I could get behind.  I know WestAllen is comic canon but iris deserves better (like Eddie) and Patty called out Barry on his B.S. while Iris just props him endlessly.

What has Patty done to deserve this?!

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

What has Patty done to deserve this?!

She pulled a Lana move on him in her last episode.

Other than that, nothing. :)

[Trini]

28 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Isn't it kind of curious that the CW/WB would allow two DC weddings in one year? ...

Not to me. Both Barry/Iris and Oliver/Felicity seem to be (or will be by mid-season) in a place to move to the next relationship level.

[statsgirl]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What has Patty done to deserve this?!

Nothing, as far as I know. But she wanted Barry and I think Iris needs to be saved from endless spear carrier.

 

7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

She pulled a Lana move on him in her last episode.

Other than that, nothing. :)

What's a Lana move?  (I didn't watch Smallville.)

I wouldn't blame her if she didn't want Barry any more.  He lied to her and lied to her and she had to trick him into the truth.