Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[statsgirl]

The only one of those I'd watch is LoT.  I might watch Supergirl if I hadn't already seen it and been turned off by Mxy and Mon El deciding that Kara was too delicate a flower to make her own decisions.

With Arrow, they're making the same mistake they made when they put up Rene eating a hamburger clip. Very few people care about these characters.  The scene isn't funny or intriguing if you don't give a damn.

Edited February 25, 2017 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

12 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Just caught up on Legends this week and totally think that Ray and Felicity would have been a perfect match. 

*waves Palmer Island flag sadly and reminisces the awesome days of s3 when Felicity was in a love triangle with Ray and Oliver*

If it makes you feel better, I think Felicity and Ray could have lived a content life, even a fulfilled life, just not one that ever reached the highs that I think that Felicity with Oliver reached.  I think Ray would have been very happy, but for Felicity...jello.  

Still, Ray is so adorbs in LoT.  I want him to find someone that loves and appreciates him over everyone.   

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The only one of those I'd watch is LoT.  I might watch Supergirl if I hadn't already seen it and been turned off by Mxy and Mon El deciding that Kara was too delicate a flower to make her own decisions.

With Arrow, they're making the same mistake they made when they put up Rene eating a hamburger clip. Very few people care about these characters.  The scene isn't funny or intriguing if you don't give a damn.

I was struck by the clip where Kara is upset because she told him she had it handled and he didn't believe her or trust her to take care of it.  The words are near the same as what Oliver said but in Kara's case, she actually DID have it covered and DID have a plan.  Oliver...not so much.  

[Mellowyellow]

35 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

If it makes you feel better, I think Felicity and Ray could have lived a content life, even a fulfilled life, just not one that ever reached the highs that I think that Felicity with Oliver reached.  I think Ray would have been very happy, but for Felicity...jello.  

Still, Ray is so adorbs in LoT.  I want him to find someone that loves and appreciates him over everyone.   

 

All the stuff about his lonely childhood on LoT really got to me this week! He was a bit of a twit running around being a knight but I felt for him the poor darling! Wasn't Felicity an awkward kid too? I'm just sad because I could see them being really nerdy together and geeking out over stuff and she'd be happy!

After how messy Felicity's life is this season and all the discussions we have in the relationships thread, I just want to walk up to her and say "You go and you marry Ray because that's the sensible choice!"

I agree with you though! Ray is a complete darling and deserves his own epic love! 

[Velocity23]

But Ray was such a dick to Felicity. 

[insomniadreams88]

I think they could have done a much better job with Felicity/Ray if they had kept them as friends. Instead we got that really weird goodbye scene in LoT S1 from a time when Felicity was engaged to Oliver in the Arrow timeline. 

[BkWurm1]

52 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

After how messy Felicity's life is this season and all the discussions we have in the relationships thread, I just want to walk up to her and say "You go and you marry Ray because that's the sensible choice!"

I think Ray and Felicity make great friends, but he's not the guy for her, not like that.  He'd be settling and more than playing it safe, he'd be her pretending she didn't need or want more.  I think she'd get lonely hiding her true self from him.  Hiding her true self from even herself.  

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I think they could have done a much better job with Felicity/Ray if they had kept them as friends. Instead we got that really weird goodbye scene in LoT S1 from a time when Felicity was engaged to Oliver in the Arrow timeline. 

Ray is a guy that is looking for love and Felicity is pretty great but then he went on and fell totally in love with Kendra and then she left him.  At this point, I don't feel like we have to worry about awkward between Ray and Felicity.  In the most recent crossover they were just good friends without any undercurrent from his side anymore.  (And she never pined, lol)

[insomniadreams88]

12 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think Ray and Felicity make great friends, but he's not the guy for her, not like that.  He'd be settling and more than playing it safe, he'd be her pretending she didn't need or want more.  I think she'd get lonely hiding her true self from him.  Hiding her true self from even herself.  

Ray is a guy that is looking for love and Felicity is pretty great but then he went on and fell totally in love with Kendra and then she left him.  At this point, I don't feel like we have to worry about awkward between Ray and Felicity.  In the most recent crossover they were just good friends without any undercurrent from his side anymore.  (And she never pined, lol)

I completely agree. And if they had kept them as friends, we wouldn't have had the weird goodbye and probably instead more of what we saw in the crossover. It's just one of those things where the show just couldn't write a male/female relationship that was friends only and needed to have Felicity with Ray for that period of time. 

I do like how Ray is written on LoT for the most part more than I ever did on Arrow, but I think the fact that there was a spinoff coming for him - before LoT was a thing - hurt him on Arrow. And now on LoT, you don't even need to know about his time on Arrow really. 

[Velocity23]

So I guess Kc only filmed on the 14th for LOt

[finnaire]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The only one of those I'd watch is LoT.  I might watch Supergirl if I hadn't already seen it and been turned off by Mxy and Mon El deciding that Kara was too delicate a flower to make her own decisions.

With Arrow, they're making the same mistake they made when they put up Rene eating a hamburger clip. Very few people care about these characters.  The scene isn't funny or intriguing if you don't give a damn.

Arrow is the only of the four show that I watch regularly.  I've never watched Supergirl at all. During her clip all I was trying to figure out was whether there were two guys there or one. I thought there were two but they looked just alike. Were they twins? Doppelgängers? Bad casting? Or was there really only one guy and it was bad editing. Had no time to even pay attention to what was being said. Expected Flash to be the next scene but if there was one there I missed it. The LOT scene reminded me of the Greek mythology characters whom I hated, otherwise the clip made no sense and I have no idea what was going on. The Arrow clip was short and to the point. If I wasn't already a viewer I think seeing Oliver seemingly admit that he is the Arrow would be intriguing.  Putting my hate of Susan aside, I thought the Arrow scene was the best. 

[Trini]

16 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Just caught up on Legends this week and totally think that Ray and Felicity would have been a perfect match. 

*waves Palmer Island flag sadly and reminisces the awesome days of s3 when Felicity was in a love triangle with Ray and Oliver*

I don't think any of the CW couples are perfect, but I thought they were good together! After Arrow Season 4, though, I'm Team Felicity/AnyoneButOliver-GirlYouDeserveBetter.
 

Quote

However, the producers are already hard at work figuring out the logistics of rectifying that for next season. “Next year, we’re hoping to do a true four-way crossover,” executive producer Andrew Kreisberg says. “The great thing about our dear friends at the CW and Mark Pedowitz picking the shows up as early as they did has allowed us to start building the schedules for next season.”

Even if it's all 4 shows, I hope they scale back the overall threat. I don't think it necessarily has to be a global threat like last time. And have some non-Supergirl characters on Supergirl.

[statsgirl]

I personally don't see what the big deal is about having a 4 show cross-over.  I think the subtle things, like Barry showing up on Arrow, or Felicity going to The Flash to see her friends, or Oliver on LoT is much more effective at showing that it's the same universe than a big four show deal with one villain or groups of villains.

1 hour ago, finnaire said:

Arrow is the only of the four show that I watch regularly.  I've never watched Supergirl at all. During her clip all I was trying to figure out was whether there were two guys there or one. I thought there were two but they looked just alike. Were they twins? Doppelgängers? Bad casting? Or was there really only one guy and it was bad editing. Had no time to even pay attention to what was being said. Expected Flash to be the next scene but if there was one there I missed it. The LOT scene reminded me of the Greek mythology characters whom I hated, otherwise the clip made no sense and I have no idea what was going on. The Arrow clip was short and to the point. If I wasn't already a viewer I think seeing Oliver seemingly admit that he is the Arrow would be intriguing.  Putting my hate of Susan aside, I thought the Arrow scene was the best. 

Supergirl was her 'ship-of-the-season Mon El (Chris Woods) and a fifth dimensional being Mr, Mxyzptlk who showed up for a belated Valentine's Day show but yeah, they do look a lot alike.  Kind of how McKenna, Susan and Dinah all look alive.

I might tune in to the Arrow clip if I didn't hate Susan so much this season so I don't know who that would appeal to.  If  you watch Arrow only occasionally, I think a Susan clip would be more off-putting than intriguing.

[Velocity23]

*shudder every time when i think about how gross Ray was in s3* 

Not only the stalking, but him actually speaking about trust when he himself was deceitful and keeping secrets about his agenda and suit. Also forever writing that they made Felicity who always stood up to Oliver as someone who wouldnt say anything back to Ray. 3x17 was such a clusterfuck i dont know how they thought they could ever recover Rays character from that.

He also electrocuted Roy ... 

[Starfish35]

I think they've done a good job rehabilitating Ray's character on LoT.   But over on LoT he's best playing against different character types, such as Mick.  I wasn't a fan of Raylicity at all, and I'm not an Olicity fan so it had nothing to do with that.  I just didn't like who they were together.  They were a lot alike in some respects (thus the inshow jokes about them being related), but I didn't feel like they brought out the best in each other, personally.  Kind of the opposite.  One of the things I liked about Ray and Kendra was that I thought her more steady grounded personality was a good balance for his.  But....that was not to be. 

[thegirlsleuth]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I think they've done a good job rehabilitating Ray's character on LoT.   But over on LoT he's best playing against different character types, such as Mick.  I wasn't a fan of Raylicity at all, and I'm not an Olicity fan so it had nothing to do with that.  I just didn't like who they were together.  They were a lot alike in some respects (thus the inshow jokes about them being related), but I didn't feel like they brought out the best in each other, personally.  Kind of the opposite.  One of the things I liked about Ray and Kendra was that I thought her more steady grounded personality was a good balance for his.  But....that was not to be. 

I started watching Season 2 of LoT a few weeks back--you all were so, so right--and I think Ray is my favorite character, although I like them all.  His "gee whiz" attitude balances out all the super-serious warriors much like Felicity's banter balanced out Oliver and Digg.

Every so I often the line "this is why we have a chore wheel!" pops into my head and I laugh to myself. Thanks, Ray.

[Mellowyellow]

Sir Raymond of the Palms killed me! And I pretty much didn't think I was going to laugh more than I laughed when the dinosaur and then the rat chased him. 

[kismet]

They have done an AMAZING job on rehabilitating Ray's character on LoT. I went from loathing him to loving him. I actually want to watch more BR. The writers and BR are doing so much better at telling his story.

I do believe that making Raylicity a romantic thing undermined both FS & RP's journeys. I think perhaps an attempt at 1 date would have been logical and ship stalling, so ok. But they both should have mutually agreed that they were not ready to move on. FS was still hung up on OQ. And having RP moving on so quickly from his dead fiance, the love of his life was really disheartening and a blow to his character. Plus, I think the romantic relationships undermined their professional work relationship. To external audiences both in and out of show, it made it seem like FS was perhaps getting special treatment because of extracurricular skills. A purely platonic friendship would have eliminated any of those misunderstandings. RP could have done more to acknowledge how much credit was due to FS for designing the suit and making a lot of the technology functional. Without her, there would be no suit and no company - the show never acknowledged that in s3 or s4. She saved QC for both OQ & RP, and the show repaid her by stripping away that role.

I get that they wanted to have a spin-off and they wanted RP to be a romantic lead. However, they set themselves up for a struggle, but making his such a creepy stalker and his questionable behaviors in the beginning. The guy had villain written all over him. It was just too much for me to believe that they would go from farting porcupines to inseparable lovers, no wonder it ended on Jello. It was an ill-conceived journey for RP. It had good intentions, but they never fully understood how to write him or his relationships with Arrow characters. I'm glad LoT does not suffer from that.

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Remember Keto Shimizu?  She used to be an Arrow writer, who is a big Black Canary fan. After Arrow S4 ended, she left Arrow and is now writing for LoT.  Well, she recently retweeted the following article...

Suddenly, Legends of Tomorrow Is DC's Best (and Most Fun) TV show
Rob Bricken  1/25/17 2:00pm
http://io9.gizmodo.com/suddenly-legends-of-tomorrow-is-dcs-best-and-most-fun-1791617787?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_twitter&utm_source=io9_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Quote

Legends of Tomorrow isn’t just the Arrowverse’s most improved show, and it isn’t just the most fun show—it currently has the best writing, too. More than that, it’s become clever, also a word that I wouldn’t normally use to describe it. If you gave up in season one, I can’t tell you more strongly to give season two another chance. It’s a different show, and a much, much better one.

[Starfish35]

For some reason I thought that article had already been posted here, or I would have posted it awhile back when I read it.  I agree with it.  Maybe not every detail, but I do agree that the show is vastly improved this season, and for me, it is by far the most enjoyable of the four.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

On 2/24/2017 at 10:02 AM, Velocity23 said:

I knew it. Gorilla Grodd and Barry gonna make out!

So what is the ship name here

Brodd? Grodrry?

[kismet]

An interspecies relationship on the CW, who knew it could be so progressive?

[Mellowyellow]

After rewatching last week's AoS for the third time I REALLY want them to bring in another earth's EvilFelicity so she and Oliver can have a fight to the death like FitzSimmons! 

I did not realise I wanted to see FitzSimmons whack each other on the head (in a way that was not OOC and totally made sense) until it was given to me! 

[Mellowyellow]

Random Thought

Why did they get rid of Jimmy Olsen and Kara? I didn't care about that ship either but I couldn't see anything offensive about it that would make them want to get rid of it.

It's not like they had permanent stank face at each other like Lauriver.

[jay741982]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Random Thought

Why did they get rid of Jimmy Olsen and Kara? I didn't care about that ship either but I couldn't see anything offensive about it that would make them want to get rid of it.

It's not like they had permanent stank face at each other like Lauriver.

I don't get it either it took them all season to even kiss but on the CW they can't have that no siree she's already kissed her forced rushed Romance Douche-el the show eater cause apparently he gets her like no one else SMH 

[statsgirl]

They're still dropping Kara/James teases so it's still a possible but the odds are small.  (Full disclosure, I like the ship).  It's like the show suddenly became allergic to Kara/James at the start of the season and anything but superficial reactions from Kara to James is to be avoided.

I don't know if they really don't know what to do with James or if Mehcad Brooks is away for other reasons like Willa Holland, but the absence of James is major.  I was thinking in this episode that they really could have used The Guardian when Kara went to save the train and it was just Alex left but nope, no Guardian.

[BkWurm1]

28 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Random Thought

Why did they get rid of Jimmy Olsen and Kara? I didn't care about that ship either but I couldn't see anything offensive about it that would make them want to get rid of it.

It's not like they had permanent stank face at each other like Lauriver.

Kara and James were not popular.  His whole character suffered a lot from the triangle they kept him in but I really think that Mon-el is a one season guy.  I think the Guardian arc for Jimmy is their attempt at rehabbing his character so he's more Supergirl's equal, but I think the results have been really mixed.  He was coming off as kind of wishywashy and useless by the end of the season last year but this year he's been a egotistical asshat unconcerned with who he puts at risk as long as he gets what he wants.  And this from someone that was still rooting for Kara and James since I thought they had a really nice chemistry to start with.  

At this point I'm not sure what the plan is.  If Mon-el is just gone by the end of the season, then I'd call it a ship stall but if he sticks around then I'd assume that James being given Guardian was like giving KC BC.  

Edited February 28, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

34 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Random Thought

Why did they get rid of Jimmy Olsen and Kara? I didn't care about that ship either but I couldn't see anything offensive about it that would make them want to get rid of it.

It's not like they had permanent stank face at each other like Lauriver.

There are some theories in the Supergirl Relationships thread. It was dropped so abruptly, I think it may be the result of some network directive.

[SmallScreenDiva]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So what is the ship name here

Brodd? Grodrry?

When Barry and Grodd have more chemistry than the official ship, LMFAO! I really like Iris and I enjoy Barry, but she's a woman and Barry comes across as a teenager and it's just weird for me.

[statsgirl]

11 minutes ago, Trini said:

There are some theories in the Supergirl Relationships thread. It was dropped so abruptly, I think it may be the result of some network directive.

Yeah, that's what I think.  The Mon El directive.

[MariaHill]

16 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think the Guardian arc for Jimmy is their attempt at rehabbing his character so he's more Supergirl's equal, but I think the results have been really mixed.  He was coming off as kind of wishywashy and useless by the end of the season last year but this year he's been a egotistical asshat unconcerned with who he puts at risk as long as he gets what he wants.  

I liked James at first, then was mostly bored/indifferent, but the Guardian arc made me actively dislike him. He was so contemptuous and condescending when he asked Kara who she thought she was to decide who got to be a hero it made me instantly dislike him, and realize that despite her superpowers, IMO he's never seen her/treated her like an adult or an equal. 

Mon-el's immature, but he's learning. And because he's immature, at least I've never gotten the feeling that he considers Kara a child he has to guide and lecture. Which is a vibe I always got from James. 

[Mellowyellow]

17 minutes ago, Trini said:

There are some theories in the Supergirl Relationships thread. It was dropped so abruptly, I think it may be the result of some network directive.

Ooh thanks I'll go have a peek!

[tv echo]

I was reading this article on The Flash, but thought the below quote provided some insight into how the EPs might be writing Oliver on Arrow as well...

The Flash: Is Barry Allen really a hero?
NATALIE ABRAMS FEBRUARY 27, 2017 AT 7:37PM EST
http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/27/flash-barry-allen-hero-villain/

Quote

“Part of the hero’s journey is screwing up really badly,” Kreisberg continues. “The end of last season was about Barry screwing up really badly. The journey for anyone in life because we’ve all made terrible mistakes and we’ve all hurt other people, whether intentionally or not. It’s what you do then that’s what separates you from whether you’re a hero or a villain.”

Edited February 28, 2017 by tv echo

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, MariaHill said:

 

Mon-el's immature, but he's learning. And because he's immature, at least I've never gotten the feeling that he considers Kara a child he has to guide and lecture. Which is a vibe I always got from James. 

I'm starting to wonder if Mon-El is a Rorschach test.  Because I disagree that he's learning. He's not just immature, but a douchebag fratboy. He continues to think that Kara is weak and can't handle the villains-when she's so much stronger and is not a damsel in distress who needs saving.  He's constantly acting like a jealous asshole, and doesn't respect Kara or her wishes. She asked him to keep quiet about their relationship-he promises, and in less than 10 seconds, announces it to all who can hear, at Work, that they are now dating and he doesn't see anything wrong with what he did. And OF COURSE he's the one to be right about Jeremiah! I think all of this comes from his sense of entitlement-because he was the prince on his world-something he has yet to tell Kara-instead, he's told her that he was the Prince's servant or bodyguard or something. Kara calls him on his behavior-he apologizes, then does it again and again and they're always back to square one.

At least last season-Jimmy respected Kara, and he was a good friend to her and vice versa.

[Velocity23]

[tv echo]

^  ^  ^ And can we get Stephen Moyer's wife, Anna Paquin, to guest star on the X-Men show as Rogue?

Edited February 28, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

So I guess we're not going to see alternate Earth versions of Oliver, Felicity or Diggle any time soon...

Supergirl EP Talks True Four-Way DCTV Crossover, Nixes Doppelgänger Cameos
By Vlada Gelman / February 25 2017, 12:50 PM PST
http://tvline.com/2017/02/25/supergirl-four-way-dctv-crossover-arrow-flash-legends-cw/

Quote

In the meantime, the end of Supergirl‘s March 20 episode will kick off a two-part musical crossover, continuing Tuesday, March 21, on The Flash. As for future mini cross-show visits, Kreisberg is ruling out one idea: cameos from Earth-1’s Kara on Arrow or The Flash, Earth-38’s Oliver Queen on Supergirl and so on.

The producers have discussed seeing the doppelgängers, but “the problem with that is if we do that once, we’re going to open the floodgates of insanity,” Kreisberg says, adding that there would have to be “a really good story” for such an appearance.

Edited February 28, 2017 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

Monday ratings

[Starfish35]

Same in the demo as last week, but that might be a series low in total viewers, pending adjustments of course.

[Morrigan2575]

Big drop for JTV. Supergirl held the demo but took a hit in viewers. Interesting

[finnaire]

You know, the weather has been unseasonably warm the last 7 to 10 days. It wouldn't surprise me if people have actually been getting out of the house. I spent this past week biking. Normally, I don't get back out until late April, early May.

[Velocity23]

Its still dark at 8 PM. Now when the time changes to DST that will become an issue. 

[kismet]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

So I guess we're not going to see alternate Earth versions of Oliver, Felicity or Diggle any time soon...

Supergirl EP Talks True Four-Way DCTV Crossover, Nixes Doppelgänger Cameos
By Vlada Gelman / February 25 2017, 12:50 PM PST
http://tvline.com/2017/02/25/supergirl-four-way-dctv-crossover-arrow-flash-legends-cw/

I'm sorta glad about that. As much as EvilFS would be fun. I'm getting tired of the doppelgangers. The only show that really knows how to write them is Flash. And after we had an episode devoted to Black Siren on Arrow, I realized how misguided an idea it can become with the wrong writers. I don't need to see another episode with people confused who they are talking to or who they are talking about.

[wonderwall]

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Big drop for JTV. Supergirl held the demo but took a hit in viewers. Interesting

I'm not saying it's because Michael died... No... That's totally what I'm saying.

Shh he was my fave ok

[Morrigan2575]

[lemotomato]

It can't be good news that Supergirl is getting Arrow season 5-type ratings in season 2, right? I know they're renewed, but I wonder what changes will be made next season.

[Starfish35]

Ask Ausiello:

Quote

Question: I’m so excited to see Teri Hatcher on Supergirl! How much longer do I have to wait? –Camille
Ausiello: Not much longer, Camille! According to executive producer Andrew Kreisberg, Hatcher’s character — which remains shrouded in mystery — pops up in Episode 15. As for whether or not you can expect to see her sharing the screen with former Lois & Clark co-star Dean Cain, Kreisberg says that everyone involved wants it to happen, adding “there’s a plan” in the works.

Question: Any word yet on if/when CalistaFlockhart might be reprising her role as Cat Grant on Supergirl? —Avery
Ausiello: I wouldn’t put money on seeing Cat again this season. But if you do, keep the wager under $1.

Question: Anythingyou can tease about Iris’ role in the Supergirl/The Flash musical crossover? —Fowsia
Ausiello: "She plays a pretty key role in the musical episode (airing Tuesday, March 21). The story really centers around Iris,” co-showrunner Aaron Helbing tells Matt Mitovich. He then reiterated, “Aside from Barry and Kara, Iris plays a huge role in the musical.”

Edited February 28, 2017 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

I'm wary when they say a character is going to play a huge part in anything. I was told Sara would play a huge part in season 3 and she was fridged in episode 1. So I'm guessing Music Meister kidnaps Iris and everyone else has all the screentime trying to save her. That's her "huge" role. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

I'm not saying it's because Michael died... No... That's totally what I'm saying.

Shh he was my fave ok

He wasn't my fav but he was plenty popular so yeah, at least some of those eyeballs are sad Michael fans.  They have been really kind to them though.  I don't think they will ever be really negative about him but I also like that they haven't sainted him like they did Laurel.  They even were willing to bring up and honor Jane's past relationship with Rafael while still celebrating her choosing Michael.  

[Velocity23]

[Morrigan2575]

Cool, I only watched a couple of episodes of Hell on Wheels but he was pretty good, IIRC.