Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[way2interested]

I wonder if this would be a way to make the crossovers happen without having to focus on making the shows' plots connect well with each other. Supergirl takes place on another Earth, Flash taking place on another timeline, Arrow taking place in the normal universe, and LoT taking place out of time in various places in history/future. That way none of the shows have to adhere to the others' continuities too much. 

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

I'm thinking that Barry will have to choose between living in this Flashpoint Paradox or trying to get back to his reality. They will probably say how this created a new time stream but they all exist. 

I'm thinking that as well, but I'm just curious as to how long is this supposed to be? Like, a whole season, half season, or just 301? Where are they going with this?

[Morrigan2575]

I'm seeing Flashpoint Paradox tossed around but, I could have sworn that was the setup for S2?   Granted they didn't follow the actual storyline but, its not like they could.

[catrox14]

Just now, way2interested said:

wonder if this would be a way to make the crossovers happen without having to focus on making the shows' plots connect well with each other. Supergirl takes place on another Earth, Flash taking place on another timeline, Arrow taking place in the normal universe, and LoT taking place out of time in various places in history/future. That way none of the shows have to adhere to the others' continuities too much. 

Ohh. this makes sense.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm thinking that as well, but I'm just curious as to how long is this supposed to be? Like, a whole season, half season, or just 301? Where are they going with this?

I would hope it wraps up in the first ep or two of The Flash. Otherwise, we'll get half a season or more of a timeline that we aren't going to stay in, only to get back to the same place were are now. But if he decides to go back to this timeline, then what in the actual fuck is it all for? Ugh.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm seeing Flashpoint Paradox tossed around but, I could have sworn that was the setup for S2?   Granted they didn't follow the actual storyline but, its not like they could.

I don't think it was the setup for S2. S2 was all about the Earth 2 crossover when DC first introduced the idea of multiple Earths combined with the Crime Syndicate (where everyone is evil).

[TrueMyth]

I haven't seen the Flash finale yet, but your descriptions are making me think of Witchblade.  Season one ended with Sarah rewinding time, and I was super excited, but season two was horrible because it retread the past season but worse.  And that show didn't even have three other shows working in its universe.

[Morrigan2575]

so according to Flash

Arrow = E1 (or Prime)

Wells/Killer Frost /Reverb = E2

JWS's Jay Garick = E3

Supergirl is = E4?

[Primal Slayer]

Dallas killed off one of their major characters, went an entire season going with it only to end it with "this entire season was a dream" in which case it's spin off just basically ignored the sister show all together.

[catrox14]

And I am forever grateful for that dream. Seriously. It was the greatest way to right a really terrible decision for Dallas. 

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Dallas killed off one of their major characters, went an entire season going with it only to end it with "this entire season was a dream" in which case it's spin off just basically ignored the sister show all together.

[wonderwall]

I'm guessing the reset is going to be undone (if that's possible) in the first few episodes... I don't see how they can do this in the long run especially if they want to keep all the shows connected.

[apinknightmare]

Comics fans seem super excited about this, and I get that it is exciting to see a storyline that you loved come alive, but IDK. The point in time that Barry just left is significant enough that I'm guessing he'll want to return to it, so unless they're fixing this somehow in the time over the hiatus or in the first ep, then we've either watched a whole season's worth of stuff that doesn't matter, or we're going to watch a half/whole season's worth of stuff that won't matter next year. Not a fan of either option, to be honest. This is why I don't like time travel. I loathe the idea of something that I spent time watching and getting invested in being completely erased. 

[Primal Slayer]

10 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

so according to Flash

Arrow = E1 (or Prime)

Wells/Killer Frost /Reverb = E2

JWS's Jay Garick = E3

Supergirl is = E4?

Not necessarily. Jay and Kara don't know about each others Earths so each of them would think they are "Earth 3" 

[calliope1975]

20 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I'm thinking that Barry will have to choose between living in this Flashpoint Paradox or trying to get back to his reality. They will probably say how this created a new time stream but they all exist. 

Are we also going to get Thomas Wayne as Batman? And Wonder Woman murdering Mera? I'd watch a live action of that story (granted, I've only seen the animated version and not read the comics) but that's not really the tone The Flash has. 

In short, I kind of hate time travel. I can roll with alternate universes and time lines, but if they can't follow the basic rules of time travel - whatever those may be - I'm out.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

In short, I kind of hate time travel. I can roll with alternate universes and time lines, but if they can't follow the basic rules of time travel - whatever those may be - I'm out.

Forget that, I need someone to explain time remnants to me. They're past versions of your present self who are independent folks who can be persuaded to "die" for someone or something? And yet the present self doesn't die along with them? Total bullshit, haha.

Edited May 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Forget that, I need someone to explain time remnants to me. They're past versions of your present self who are independent folks who can be persuaded to "die" for someone? And yet the present self doesn't die along with them? Total bullshit, haha.

See also: Clones. I mean that's basically what they are right?

[EmeraldArcher]

I haven't seen the episode yet (hubby has commandeered the TV to watch NatGeo Wild--ugh), so I'm coming in blind . . . 

But, could it be possible that this reset on Flash (or whatever it turns out to be) is one way to negate the

Spoiler

Fallout from any successful nuclear attacks (including Havenrock) on Arrow, especially in tomorrow's finale?

I'm just trying to understand how the Flash finale might impact the Flarrowverse.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

See also: Clones. I mean that's basically what they are right?

But a clone isn't an actual version of a person from the past. If a past version of a person dies, why wouldn't the present version die, too? 

[Morena]

the problem about this history is probably only Barry knows this all changed.  Even when It returns to the regular timeline, none of the characters will know anything even happened. if will be done in like 2 episodes,ok, but almost all season? there would be no real development for the other      characters.

[popgoesculture]

This is only proving how insanely selfish Barry is. (And when they talk about all the loss he's suffered, all I can think is "hey, Oliver lost his parents, his best friend, the girl he was in love with a long time, and roughly 9000 other people... so suck it up, Barry." I might be a bad person.)

But the only ray of hope I see is maybe in season 3, Barry and Iris will have some chemistry rather than these creepy conversations about how Barry waited forever for her to get kind of used to him liking her, or that they might as well give a relationship a go since in the future they're married... 

Random question: are there any women on the Flash writing staff??? 

[nksarmi]

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Forget that, I need someone to explain time remnants to me. They're past versions of your present self who are independent folks who can be persuaded to "die" for someone or something? And yet the present self doesn't die along with them? Total bullshit, haha.

I should have given up on Flash in the last season finale when Eddie died and the whole of season one didn't reset. I mean, I still can't see how Eddie dies, Thawn disappears, and EVERYTHING DOESN'T CHANGE!

I mean Harry Thawn flat out said that in his original timeline where his mother lived, Barry became Flash later. So without him changing history - cause you know Eddie died so he was never born - none of season one should have happened. But I have just been handwaving that as somehow Eddie really did live because he got sucked into the vortex and all comic book rules say - no body, not dead.

But I decided to ignore this and they doubled down on the does not make a f-k bit of sense with time remnants. Because you can die in the past and your present self lives how!??! Seriously show, this is BS - stop it! Wally isn't the only one confused. He's a smart guy. He's confused because it doesn't make a flying f-k bit of sense.

And now Barry who is selfish as all get out - decides he is going to change everyone's history (and erase all the good he's done) to get him mom back? How is he a hero?

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

This is only proving how insanely selfish Barry is. (And when they talk about all the loss he's suffered, all I can think is "hey, Oliver lost his parents, his best friend, the girl he was in love with a long time, and roughly 9000 other people... so suck it up, Barry." I might be a bad person.)

But the only ray of hope I see is maybe in season 3, Barry and Iris will have some chemistry rather than these creepy conversations about how Barry waited forever for her to get kind of used to him liking her, or that they might as well give a relationship a go since in the future they're married... 

Random question: are there any women on the Flash writing staff??? 

Looking at who wrote this season on wikipedia there are a few:

Brooke Eikmeier (2 episodes)
Katherine Walzcak (3 episodes)
Lilah Vandenburgh (1 episode)
Brooke Roberts (2 episodes)
Lauren Certo (2 episodes)
Gabrielle Stanton (2 episodes)
 

[Starfish35]

Oh good grief Barry.

I'm too tired to deal with this. 

Yay for a whole summer hiatus with everyone talking about how this is totally going to bring Laurel back! /sarcasm

Edited May 25, 2016 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

Well... It's good I stopped watching Flash if this is the response (which I"m seeing a lot of): 

Even my husband watched via live-stream quit because it got confusing and started hating on Barry lol

Edited May 25, 2016 by wonderwall

[Morena]

‘The Flash’: How will Barry’s decision change the universe of shows?

http://zap2it.com/2016/05/the-flash-season-2-finale-flashpoint-arrow-legends-of-tomorrow-supergirl/

Edited May 25, 2016 by Morena

[Guest]

This is annoying though. My viewing of Arrow shouldn't be affected by an event that happened on Flash. Some of us don't watch all of the shows. 

I'm guessing/hoping this is just something to get people talking right now and they'll deal with it quickly in the first couple of episodes of s3. 

[kismet]

They really need to find a way to harness the power of BA's tears. I'm seriously thinking they could bring world peace on every Earth. Perhaps in the series finale... one can only hope.

It would be a lovely meme/gif ~ Cry Barry Cry.

Furthermore, now I'm waiting for a CrackVid covering BA's greatest hits set to Cry Me a River by Justin Timberlake or Emotions by Destiny's Child.

[Chaser]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This is annoying though. My viewing of Arrow shouldn't be affected by an event that happened on Flash. Some of us don't watch all of the shows. 

I'm guessing/hoping this is just something to get people talking right now and they'll deal with it quickly in the first couple of episodes of s3. 

Can you imagine if it did though? lol

I know you guys planned your seasons carefully and killed off characters and know where you want to take your shows next season but we are doing this cool thing on Flash so you guys are going to have to redo everything and I know that sucks but comics are so cool.

[Trini]

Just when I thought Barry and Oliver could do some bonding over the fact that they're both orphans now, Flash goes and resets everything.

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

How can it not though? It's resetting everything.  If Barry's life is a do over, then shouldn't EVERY life he touched be a do-over too?

Not just who he touched, but the entire universe -- according to Flashpoint.

27 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

And now Barry who is selfish as all get out - decides he is going to change everyone's history (and erase all the good he's done) to get him mom back? How is he a hero?

Not just to get his mother back. He figured his mother's death was the start of the chain of events that led up to [all the bad stuff in Season 2], so (he thinks) if he just eliminates that it will save a lot of grief and death.

[catrox14]

This is giving me more of a headache than the most convoluted shit Steven Moffat has ever done on DW.

This is insane.

[hogwash]

Why is Barry such a selfish piece of crap in these finales?? What the heck! I guess next season is Barry in his alternate timeline while everyone else tries to on fix his fuckup.

[nksarmi]

This should definitely NOT impact Arrow, LoT, or Supergirl. I want to stop watching Flash - not be forced into it. I hope this is resolved quickly on Flash because I don't want to deal with the shows I like being changed because of it.

I hope season three opens with Rip Hunter landing the Legends team outside the house and they pick him up right before he saves his mom and they give him the "fixed point in time" lecture and boom we are done.

[NumberCruncher]

I don't know why they decided to tie all of these CW superhero shows together any if they knew they were going to pull all of this alternative universe crap.  It's fast becoming a hot mess and has obliterated any semblance of continuity.  I miss my nice, grounded superhero shows.

Edited May 25, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

and they give him the "fixed point in time" lecture and

Well now I just want Jack Harkness to show up as THE Fixed Point in Time and give Barry a smackdown.

[dtissagirl]

I'm just highly amused Flash is doing Flashpoint today when DC comics is undoing Flashpoint tomorrow. Like, literally tomorrow when Rebirth gets launched.

[Lokiberry]

5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm just highly amused Flash is doing Flashpoint today when DC comics is undoing Flashpoint tomorrow. Like, literally tomorrow when Rebirth gets launched.

New 52 have been absolutely hated by long term DC fans, so setting up the possibility of doing it in the flarrowverse is not, shall we say, the brightest ideas these wiseacres have ever had.

OTOH, maybe they'll use it as an excuse to bring Snart back.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Lokiberry

[catrox14]

Well, JFC. I made one comment on Twitter about this better not be reversing Laurel's death and TWO Felicity haters are in my timeline. I literally said nothing about Felicity in my tweet. WTF people. Just don't.

[kismet]

So if this resets everything how far back to we go?

Nevermind, this is ridiculous. I don't care what Flash does, but I care about Arrow and it should not be held to Flash's timeline.

Or if we are, then they have to take what we gave up. I have a deal. Arrow will take Eddie to be QL's new partner and Flash can have LL to help prosecute all the metas.

[thegirlsleuth]

I don't watch Flash, but if this whole thing brings Moira back, sign me up.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't watch Flash, but if this whole thing brings Moira back, sign me up.

Well, dammit. Why did you go and say that??? MY QUEEN!!

[Lokiberry]

Maybe Laurel died at the beginning of S3, and Sara went from the Canary to BC for reasons.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, kismet said:

So if this resets everything how far back to we go?

Nevermind, this is ridiculous. I don't care what Flash does, but I care about Arrow and it should not be held to Flash's timeline.

Or if we are, then they have to take what we gave up. I have a deal. Arrow will take Eddie to be QL's new partner and Flash can have LL to help prosecute all the metas.

YES I accept this deal

[AyChihuahua]

I find the excitement over this, the idea that it's going to be a televised Flashpoint over four shows, UNBELIEVABLY naive. Sure, Arrow's going to make it so Oliver's dead bc Barry wasn't there with rat poison. Okay, yeah, so I guess Amell was fired and Arrow just got cancelled? (For the record, if Barry hadn't been there the battle with Cyrus in the ARGUS drug warehouse probably wouldn't have happened in the first place, so they wouldn't have needed Barry's drug knowledge.) 

Or  Robert's the Arrow. Amell got fired, I guess, and the CW is TOTALLY going to build a show around a 60-year-old dude protagonist. SURE. Guggie can't remember that Oliver is supposed to speak Mandarin like a native. They couldn't get the cast of Flash to Laurel's funeral even though supposedly they "loved her." They can't keep track of simple things on ONE show, there is literally no way in hell or anywhere else they can keep track of a whole new timeline's effects on every other character on every other show. On the CW. They couldn't even get Barry, who has SUPERSPEED, to drop by to see his good friend Felicity after she was paralyzed. There are logistics and scripts and budgets and contracts and sets and cast demands on a tv show that are NOT A PROBLEM in comics.

Just totally silly. I'd put down money that this will have zero to near-zero affect on the other shows, and will be undone on The Flash fairly quickly. Bc otherwise, I guess Barry becomes The Flash years later. So okay, sure, the show is going to change from The Flash to Barry Allen: Forensic Investigator.

SURE.

[kismet]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't watch Flash, but if this whole thing brings Moira back, sign me up.

That's what I thought, but then I remembered Susannah Thompson said she was done with the show and would never make another appearance.

Also Colin has a successful show on NBC. Manu seems done with the show. Ras could come back, but that will be inconsequential.

So basically Flarrowverse would get back Snart. And maybe LL & Eddie (they're likely available). Snart is gonna float. Which means we just need to find place for LL & Eddie. Trust me, Arrow is better off taking Eddie.

[quarks]

Yikes, Twitter is going nuts over this. 

Anyway, they have five ways to approach this:

1. This doesn't affect Arrow or Legends of Tomorrow at all.

That's a problem, since the CW is basically selling these as four interconnected shows, with crossovers and so on - admittedly, not always successfully. 

2. This does affect Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, but only to the extent to which Barry interacted with the characters. That's still a problem - more so, honestly, for Legends of Tomorrow, since without Barry resetting the timeline earlier this season, those particular Hawks died before Rip Hunter recruited them - meaning that Rip would have had to work with a different set of reincarnated Hawks, and thus assemble his team at a different point in time with different characters. Firestorm also probably would have been Ronnie and Stein, not Jax and Stein. 

Also, Team Arrow died in Nanda Parbat last year; everyone in Starling City died of the virus, and Oliver went back to that island swearing to never appear on a Berlanti show again. 

3. Everything changes, which runs the risk of alienating Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow viewers who don't watch Flash.  This is also the least likely approach because of the headaches involved.

4. Next season of Flash starts out with Barry running very very fast and resetting the reset.

5. Some mixture of all of the above.

[Chaser]

Fire bad tree pretty

[AyChihuahua]

I already pretty much thought The Flash sucked, but now it's suckage is leaking over to the one show of these four I give a crap about, and that's really irritating me. Even though I'm confident Arrow either won't change at all or in super minor ways (I vote not at all, bc there's NO WAY they can believably change little things but not big...I mean there literally would be no Flash to cross over with), it's still irritating as hell.

I think Barry will see it wasn't all rainbows and puppies and reset the reset by 3.2. Then they need to back the hell away from time travel. It makes Barry look like a REAL piece of shit.

Edited May 25, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

Quote

Maybe LoT will spend all season trying to correct the timeline. Barry Allen could be the Big Bad -@Lokiberry

 

 

I'm so down for this ;)

I think Barry will just be missing from Arrow's timeline?

Edited May 25, 2016 by tarotx

[popgoesculture]

Also, with this reset, didn't Barry just doom a whole other Earth to life with Zoom, since Zoom didn't die with Barry resetting the timeline?

This finale is such a dumb idea.

[Morena]

if they want to reverse something in Arrow, they could kill Laurel and let Tommy alive

[Lokiberry]

If they were really bold, they could use this to change things that need changing: fix a few mistakes, streamline a few stories. Iris and Barry weren't raised as brother and sister, both his parents aren't dead. Maybe Laurel died earlier and Sara's the Black Canary(I know I'm harping on this, but a girl's gotta have a dream), maybe Moira or Robert isn't dead. They could eliminate or alter other stories. Maybe Oliver never knocked up what'shername. Maybe he never even dated Laurel. I mean, if we're going to dream, let's dream big. On LoT,  maybe Snart's not dead. 

Ever thing would be mostly the same somehow: Barry is still the Flash and has a team because reasons; it's the same with Oliver and Team Arrow. There are changes, but the shows still function the same way.