Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[FurryFury]

LoT doesn't really have a shipping fandom yet, and that's OK, Arrow's took a while to spring up as well, and The Flash's fandom, IMHO, doesn't even exist per ce (there are a few diehard WestAllen fans, but it doesn't feel like a real fandom to me). There are good shows without any fandoms, it just happens sometimes, doesn't even have to do with the quality of the show, probably with the way it elicits some emotional response in the viewers' minds and the depth of their devotion. I honestly find stuff like that fascinating. I wonder if it will happen with LoT later (like it happened with Arrow) or not.

Edited April 16, 2016 by FurryFury

[kismet]

Whether or not its a natural thing CL does or not... I just don't trust these writers with any romantic relationship/triangles/drama etc.

 

I do like flirtiness CL & WM bring to their characters, but these writers do not have a good track record and that ship is one small place for relationship drama.

[statsgirl]

I get the feeling they haven't yet decided who Sara is going to be with and they're chem testing CL with all three of the men. Ray and Kendra quickly fell into a relationship because they really do seem to be a 50s couple and neither actor is great on the romantic scene.

Most of the WestAllen shippers seem to be from the comics because they end up together. I thought Iris/Eddie was so good, I can't ship WestAllen now. I even thought Barry/Patty have more potential if it weren't so obviously written to be temporary. And even at that AK had to write her screwing things up to kill the shipping.

My biggest regret of the most recent LoT is that they underused Anna Deavre Smith, so I'm a little bummed they cast her well but then barely wrote for her. Although that seems to be a trend amongst the Flarrowverse to get great actors and then under utilize them. :(

Sadly too true. Remember Chris Heyerdahl's 'blink and you kiss him' appearance? It's like they want to get the best toys in the store and then don't play with them enough.

[Delphi]

I doubt they plan on putting Sara in a relationship with a gug. I know she's bisexual but there are people that would see it differently and there would be a whole call to arms thing. It shouldn't be a big deal if Sara hooks up with a guy but people will make it a big deal. I think the higher ups probably know this.

[wonderwall]

I doubt they plan on putting Sara in a relationship with a gug. I know she's bisexual but there are people that would see it differently and there would be a whole call to arms thing. It shouldn't be a big deal if Sara hooks up with a guy but people will make it a big deal. I think the higher ups probably know this.

 

I mean she was with Oliver for a bit in S2, so I don't know what the big deal would be... Her not being attracted to guys or hooking up with one or just having a relationship with one is totally disregarding her bisexuality which is equally as offensive... So really, it's a no win unfortunately

Edited April 16, 2016 by wonderwall

[Sakura12]

Sara's Bi. She can hook up with guys or girls.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Sakura12

[Delphi]

I wasn't implying that she wasn't. But there are people who, however deluded they are, would decide that Sara being with a man is somehow horrible because the guy is not a girl.

[statsgirl]

Kendra is the only other woman on the Wave Rider and there's never been any indication that she's bi.  That would mean limiting Sara to hooking only with one-shot characters (the James T. Kirk of the series) unless they put her with one of the male characters.

 

I think that would be a waste of Sara/CL.

[tarotx]

Don't worry Knowing MG&co they will bring in a new girl and have Sara be in a Love triangle with one of the guys and the new girl. 

[FurryFury]

So, I'm thinking - are there any shows that had major established bi characters end with the opposite gender? I say "major established" because I'm not sure how you would qualify, say, Marissa from The OC who had one fling with a girl which was promptly forgotten and felt like a clear "Sweeps Weeks Lesbian Kiss" trope. Because yeah, I think some people will DEFINITELY revolt if Sara hooks up with a guy (which is stupid because she's not a lesbian). It's kinda like it's considered OK to change straight characters' sexuality in fanfic, but offensive to do it with gay characters.

Edited April 17, 2016 by FurryFury

[tv echo]

Article discusses Arrow, Agents of SHIELD, Flash, Gotham and Supergirl (but I've only quoted the Arrow part)...

 

Do Comic Book Show Deaths Still Mean Something?
By Amanda Joyce Apr 16, 2016 11:30 AM
http://www.themovienetwork.com/article/do-comic-book-show-deaths-still-mean-something

Once upon a time, there used to be a saying in the comic book world: No one stays dead except Uncle Ben. When writers have incredible healing powers, time travel, and alternate universes at their disposal, it means that most heroes and villains might as well be invincible. It also means that when someone takes a fatal blow and a series ends, there’s usually a revival in another few months with a new writer and artist. With the flood of comic book television shows out there now, we have to ask: is the same true on the screen? Does the death of a character on a comic book show hold the same weight?
*  *  *
We’ve seen a lot, and I mean a lot, of main characters come to a sticky end on Arrow. We’ve got Tommy Merlyn, Oliver Queen himself, Thea Queen, Moira Queen, Sara Lance, Roy Harper, Ray Palmer, and most recently, Laurel Lance. That’s pretty much the entire slate of usuals. Diggle and Felicity better watch their backs at this point, or should they?
 

Of those deaths, it’s notable that only two (so far) have stuck - Tommy and Moira. Oliver and Roy’s were fake, Thea and Sara were brought back by the Lazarus pit, and Ray’s was a science experiment gone wrong. Roy got to go off and try for a new life while Sara and Ray got to join a new time traveling team of superheroes. Oliver and Thea are continuing to kick butt and take names in Star City. Because Laurel’s death is brand new, we can’t really pass judgment on hers, though the showrunner has maintained that it’s not a fake out and that her death will stick.
 

Here’s the thing though, the word has already leaked that

Katie Cassidy will be back on The Flash later this season playing her Earth 2 counterpart. While she’s not technically the same character, something tells me that’s going to go a long way to appease fans.

 

Conclusion: If you’re a superhero, you’re probably going to get at least one more shot. It’s the regular folks that won’t make it out of Star City alive, and honestly, most of the regular folks aren’t main cast members. They tend to come and go. Emotional fallout for Arrow is pretty minimal when it comes to deaths. I don’t know if any death has hit the show as hard as Tommy’s or Moira’s, and I don’t know if any death ever will. Which is unfortunate, because Laurel’s death should have a big emotional impact for viewers.

Edited April 17, 2016 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

So, I'm thinking - are there any shows that had major established bi characters end with the opposite gender? I say "major established" because I'm not sure how you would qualify, say, Marissa from The OC who had one fling with a girl which was promptly forgotten and felt like a clear "Sweeps Weeks Lesbian Kiss" trope. Because yeah, I think some people will DEFINITELY revolt if Sara hooks up with a guy (which is stupid because she's not a lesbian). It's kinda like it's considered OK to change straight characters' sexuality in fanfic, but offensive to do it with gay characters.

 

Yep, I never get why it's okay to ship show canon straight characters in gay relationships but it's somehow not okay to ship a show canon bisexual character with men and women. Sara is representing the B in LGBT. We should be more like Sara, she doesn't care about gender, she falls a person for being a person she likes (and apparently flirts with anyone that talks to her) 

[wonderwall]

This is an interesting read about race and romance in Daredevil for those who want to read it:

 

http://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/2016/04/17/race-romance-daredevil-season-two/

[Starfish35]

Over in the LoT forum, the subject of AoS came up, so I'm curious. How would you theoretically "fix" AoS? What characters would you cut? What characters would you add? I think I would cut Coulson, Daisy, and Lincoln, and bring back Bobbi and Hunter. I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks.

Was bored this weekend, so I picked up Age of Ultron from Redbox. I've been curious to find out if my initial impressions from when I watched it several months ago held up.

The good - well, after watching BvS, I didn't think AoU was nearly so bad as that. That's not saying much though. :). The bad - I think dtissagirl is right. This movie, in spite of the inclusion of Falcon and some HIVE references, makes more sense as a direct follow up to the first Avengers movie. It feels like it ignores, to a great extent, most of the phase two movies, particularly where Tony is concerned. And honestly, I apologize to those that like it, but I still hate the Natasha/Bruce relationship. Mainly I think because of them turning her into the Hulk Whisperer, and that just added a layer to that relationship that just makes me very very uncomfortable.

[way2interested]

Over in the LoT forum, the subject of AoS came up, so I'm curious. How would you theoretically "fix" AoS? What characters would you cut? What characters would you add? I think I would cut Coulson, Daisy, and Lincoln, and bring back Bobbi and Hunter. I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks.

For me, it's not really a character thing that would need fixing, since I actually like most of the characters on the show (except Lincoln, who is honestly such a dead weight to me), but a plot/premise fixing. Like, I think the show needs to become fully committed to a premise and fully involve all of its characters. It's a powers show now, but only 2 of their main characters have superpowers, so there needs to be some level of involvement for all of them so it doesn't end up being all about Daisy and her powers (like a good portion of 2b). Luckily for me, I liked Daisy's development, but I don't think the show really gives as much effort to the non-powered plots of the show.

Also, I think the show could use a good standard VOTW episode to at least develop a status quo of the characters and the feel between them, since the entire premise of the show seems to change within every half-season or even every 3 episodes. I can't tell you how many press releases have "SHIELD will change forever" on them, which always promopted me to reply, "Change from what? What is normal SHIELD even like?" Plus it would allow a better sense of comraderie between some of the characters.

Last point, but I feel like AoS needs to cut their ties with Brett Dalton at some point before he becomes AoS' JB with the ways they are bringing him back, especially if some of the theories that I've seen come true about his character.

[Starfish35]

I saw a Deadline commenter mention that some are calling the Snyderverse the "Murderverse". I was curious so I googled it and came up with this. Apologies if it's been posted before. I'm not sure I totally agree with everything in it, but I thought it was definitely an entertaining read.

Batman v Superman: Spoiler FAQ of Justice

http://io9.gizmodo.com/batman-v-superman-spoiler-faq-of-justice-1767720335

Edited April 18, 2016 by Starfish35

[FurryFury]

Not sure if anything could make me come back to AoS. At this point, I don't care about anybody. And I think Bobby and (especially) Hunter are hugely overrated. I've actually dropped the show before their exit, about mid-way through their first episode after the break. 

 

I remember liking season 2 a lot, and it had a lot of Skye-centric stuff, so I was OK with Skye even when everybody hated her. However, I simply don't care about Daisy. It felt like her character got changed too much, I no longer recognize her. And they definitely shouldn't have added Lincoln, their romance is a snoozefest. 

 

Ditto for FitzSimmons, I've always found them pretty generic but Fitz was getting somewhere interesting for a while with the whole brain damage arc and friendship with Mack... and then it just all faded away.

 

Plotwise, the whole Secret Warriors stuff and Hive are straight-up boring, and they've wasted Ward's death. I actually think he was one of the best ideas about the whole show, but the writers never really knew what to do with him. They should have made him factor more in the Inhuman stuff earlier and then kill him off in a more climactic way.

 

Oh, and Coulson just sucks. Joss Whedon was right, he should never have been resurrected.

[tv echo]

Regarding AoS, I used to find Skye/Daisy annoying because the show focused so much on her special snowflake status.  Now I like her in small doses.  I also like Lincoln (putting me in the minority, I know), maybe because I still have a soft spot for the actor since he had to suffer through The Tomorrow People playing second banana to RA.  I still find Coulson annoying and the actor who plays him not very compelling either as a leader or as a character.  So I would cut Coulson but keep Daisy and Lincoln.  I'm okay with bringing Bobbi back but I don't like Hunter so I would still cut him.  I would also cut Brett Dalton's character.  My fave characters right now are Jemma and Fitz (not necessarily together).  Ever since Jemma's solo episode and Fitz' story arc of getting her back, I've found these two characters to be the most layered and also played by good actors.

Edited April 18, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

that was a great read, thanks!

[tv echo]

This list was ranked by Marvel.com's editorial & social media teams...

 

Marvel Top 10 Non-Superpowered Heroes
Published on Apr 15, 2016, by Marvel Entertainment

 

10.  Elektra
9.  Punisher
8.  Howard the Duck
7.  Winter Soldier
6.  NIck Fury
5.  Black Widow
4.  Hawkeye
3.  Shang-Chi
2.  War Machine
1.  Iron Man

[nksarmi]

I think AoS is cool in theory, but I haven't managed to watch more than a couple of episodes. Not sure why.  I guess I just get my fill of Marvel through movies.  I prefer something else for television.

 

But I also have limited television viewing time - right now I'm attempting to follow four televisions shows "live" (I might have to watch On Demand but I tend to keep up weekly) and that's a lot for me.  I honestly prefer binge watching.  I sometimes wonder if season three of Arrow would have been better that way, but I doubt it. Still, there is something about condensing the "wait" between certain plot points that makes them feel less annoying somehow. 

[Sakura12]

I've been letting AoS fill up on my DVR and then watch them when I'm bored. I enjoyed the second season and a little bit of the first half of season 3. I didn't really like that they give Simmons story to Fitz and pushed her into the background. I loved the episode with her stranded on the planet. I think it would've been better if she was the one infected instead of Ward (whom like Malcolm on Arrow has overstayed his welcome). 

 

I'm one of the few that liked Skye as well. Daisy no so much, she is like a different character now. I agree on Coulson. It was sad when he died in the Avengers, but I didn't care that much about him.  He's not compelling as a leader and most of the time I wish any of the character would just punch him in his smug face. I didn't care about Hunter, he had some funny lines but didn't feel like he was that great of character. I like Bobbi but also didn't care that she left. 

 

Now going though this, I really don't care about any of the characters on the show. That's probably why I have no desire to watch it every week. 

[tv echo]

Last week, Nick Spake published an article titled "What the DC Extended Universe Can Learn from the Arrowverse".  Apparently, readers were divided on one reason given, namely, that "The Arrowverse Has Felicity Smoak."  So now he's responding with this follow-up article...

 

NICK PICKS | WHAT THE DC EXTENDED UNIVERSE CAN LEARN FROM FELICITY SMOAK
By Nick Spake, Features Editor   10 hours ago
http://www.flickreel.com/nick-picks-what-the-dc-extended-universe-can-learn-from-felicity-smoak/

For many fans, Felicity is easily their favorite part of the Arrowverse. Others, however, simply can’t stand the character. They find Felicity’s quirky personality obnoxious and her storylines to be too soapy. On top of that, they can’t get past the fact that Oliver Queen ultimately fell in love with her when the Green Arrow developed a romance with Black Canary in the comics. While the character isn’t without her haters, Felicity is largely the reason why the Arrowverse has developed into something special....
*  *  *
For the sake of argument, though, let’s go into greater detail on why Felicity Smoak saved the Arrowverse and what the DC Extended Universe can learn from her.
*  *  *
By the beginning of season two, Felicity joined Oliver’s crew and became a main cast member. Just as audiences fell in love Felicity, so did Oliver, who revealed his true feelings for her in the season two finale. Since then, their relationship has become a major driving force for the series. So why exactly did Felicity leave such a mark? For starters, she injected some much-needed humor into Arrow.
*  *  *
With that said, there’s a lot more to Felicity than an adorkable persona and witty one-liners. She’s also emotionally complex, caring towards her loved ones, and a badass in her own way. A while back, I wrote an article on how nerdy characters have become increasingly popular in entertainment. This is primarily because writers are starting to realize that “nerds” can be a lot more diverse than initially believed. In addition to being knowledgeable, they can be strong, passionate, and even cool. Felicity Smoak is a prime example of how nerds have evolved beyond the textbook definition. Since Felicity emerged as such a three-dimensional character, she also gave Arrow something it was missing in its earlier episodes: a heart.
 

Oliver Queen could be so cold and guarded at first that it was hard for the audience to relate to him. Through his friendship and romance with Felicity, Oliver finally started to let down some of his defenses and become a more fleshed-out individual. By bringing out Oliver’s humanity, Felicity gave viewers someone and something to root for. Although every character on the show has grown significantly over the years, Felicity continues to act as the brain and heart of the team. Without her, Arrow just wouldn’t be what it is today.
*  *  *
Above all else, Felicity has supplied the Arrowverse with an identity of its own. In the beginning, Arrow clearly borrowed a lot from The Dark Knight. The same could be said about Man of Steel, which launched the DC Extended Universe. ... Taking a grittier, more sophisticated approach to Superman’s origins actually wasn’t a bad idea. The problem is that Man of Steel didn’t really feel like an original take on Superman. It felt more like Zack Snyder trying to impersonate Christopher Nolan and coming up short.
 

This is a problem that numerous modern superhero films have. Many of them assume that Nolan’s Batman trilogy was a success simply because it was dark and serious. ... Rather than just repeating what was popular and conventional at the time, these [Nolan] films strived to present Batman from a unique perspective while also remaining loyal to the character’s mythos.
 

Arrow started out as another Dark Knight wannabe, but the showrunners quickly realized that Oliver had to become someone else. He had to become something else. Arrow has since found it’s own distinctive voice and that’s partially due to Felicity’s influence. There’s only one Felicity Smoak and thus only one Arrowverse. The DC Extended Universe meanwhile, continues to feel like its living in the shadow of superior movies and graphic novels.
*   *  *
Now as much as I’ve praised Felicity throughout this feature, the character admittedly isn’t without her flaws. For my money, Rickards has never given a bad performance on the show, but she hasn’t always been given the best material to work with either. Most people would agree that season three was a low point for Arrow and this is chiefly due to Oliver and Felicity’s relationship. That’s not to say the two lacked chemistry. On the contrary, Olicity is one of the best couples of modern television. Their scenes together range from cute, to funny, to poignant, to touching, to utterly romantic. The audience desperately wants to see Oliver and Felicity together, which made it frustrating when the showrunners decided to prolong their will they/won’t they relationship.
 

At the beginning of season three, Oliver and Felicity are driven apart for really forced, contrived reasons. As a result, we got way too many scenes with Oliver being a martyr and Felicity being confused about her feelings. Why do so many shows drag out romances when the audience already knows what’s going to happen? Sure, the characters run the risk of becoming a boring couple, but that’s still better than week after week of sexual tension that ultimately goes nowhere.
*  *  *
Of course the main issue people seem to have with Felicity seems to stem back to that she wasn’t a big part of the comics. If you haven’t noticed, some fanboys and fangirls tend to lose their $#*& when an comic adaptation makes even the tiniest change. There were fans out there that wanted to see Arrow tackle the romance between the Green Arrow and Black Canary. So naturally, they felt like the show missed its target when Black Canary was pushed aside for a minor character from the comics.
 

Then again, Arrow didn’t just neglect the hero’s romance with Black Canary entirely. In season one, the key relationship was between Oliver and Laurel Lance, who would later become Black Canary. In season two, we learned more about Oliver’s relationship with Sarah Lance, the original Black Canary and eventual White Canary. At the end of the day, though, Oliver simply had more of a connection with the shy MIT graduate. Thus, it made more sense for Oliver and Felicity’s romance to become the focal point of the series. To a certain extent, an adaptation should remain loyal to its original inspiration, but that doesn’t mean it needs to follow the source material to a T. It’s appropriate to make alterations when its for the better and expanding Felicity’s role was definitely a good call.
 

... Copying and pasting moments from the source material doesn’t mean necessarily equal a good adaptation, though. The same can be said about taking the source material and just making it darker.
*  *  *
Even if Arrow isn’t exactly like the original comics, it still possesses the tone, atmosphere, and spirit of the source material. It’s evident that the showrunners have affection for comics and understand how to transfer the medium to the screen. As for Zach Snyder, well… Kevin Smith probably summed it up best on his podcast:

“It’s almost like Zack Snyder didn’t read a bunch of comics, he read one comic once, and it was Dark Knight Returns, and his favorite part was the last part where Batman and Superman fight” – Kevin Smith
 

Smith additionally added that BvS lacked “heart” and “humor,” two elements that the Arrowverse has in spades thanks to Felicity Smoak.
*  *  *
So does this mean Felicity should join the DC Extended Universe? BvS probably would’ve been a lot more fun with Emily Bett Rickards, but no, that’s not the solution. As stated before, the DC Extended Universe has yet to find a voice of its own. It’s not going to find that voice if it keeps stealing from other artists. However, that doesn’t mean it can’t learn from the Arrowverse and especially Felicity Smoak.
 

In many ways, Felicity has become more than a character. Through her humor, heart, and overall personality, she’s become the embodiment of everything that makes the Arrowverse a unique product. When and if the DC Extended Universe finds a Felicity Smoak of its own, perhaps the franchise will at last become something else.

Edited April 18, 2016 by tv echo

[Lokiberry]

I must be one of the few that likes AoS. I watched the first two episodes when the show premiered and then gave up on it, only coming back in the second half of the the second season (interestingly enough because I'd heard Luke Mitchell had joined the cast). I like almost all the cast, including Daisy, Coulson, and SquidWard. I've enjoyed the history of Hydra, the alien planet, and HIVE. Daisy and Mack's partnership is great, as was Bobbi and Hunter's, I'm really missing them. I was impressed to find out who Lash was, and am curious to see if the story is going where I think it's going.

 

One of the few things that's not working for me is Lincoln. I floved LM on the Tomorrow People. He's one of the few reasons I stuck with that terrible show, but he's not working here. I suspect it's because the character's primary reason for existing is to be a hot guy for Daisy to make out with. I know LM can be really compelling, even acting against RA, so I don't know what the problem is with Chloe Bennett; she's a lot better than that block of wood.

 

For next season, they need to evaluate what they want to do. I like Brett Dalton, but after HIVE's story ends, he needs to go. With Lincoln, they need to commit to writing him as an independent character, with his own story, and not just as Daisy's chew toy, or cut him loose.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Lokiberry

[tv echo]

8 Intriguing Superhero TV Shows That Were Never Made
By Christian Bone   18 hours ago
http://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/8-proposed-superhero-tv-shows-that-were-never-made/

Edited April 18, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

It's funny that I came across that Nick Spake article (posted above) that talks about how Felicity injected humor and heart into Arrow.  Recently, I was thinking about the differences between DC superhero movies and Marvel superhero movies.

 

Much has been written/said about how the DC movies are 'darker' while the Marvel movies are 'lighter'.  As far as I can tell, that distinction only applies literally - in a darker color palette and darker lighting - but not figuratively or metaphorically.  Both universes deal with dark themes and dark story lines.  Both have involved losses. Indeed, a superhero movie necessarily must have some darkness in order to set up the conflict - something bad that spurs or inspires the hero to act, and then the ultimate battle of good versus evil.  However, the Marvel movies are currently doing a better job of counterbalancing the darkness with lighter elements.  I call them the 3H's - Humor, Heart and Hope.  

 

From the promos, Captain America: Civil War will turn friend against friend.  The clear analogy is to the American Civil War, a really dark time in history when family members and friends literally fought and killed each other - brother vs. brother.  This is not exactly a light, fluff theme.  But again from the promos, the movie looks like it will balance serious discussions and fights with humorous and human moments.  In contrast, BvS had little humor to break up its unrelenting grimness. Hence, the first H is Humor.

 

Also, the characters must engage the audience.  I want to see the hero as someone real and three-dimensional, with real feelings and real motivations.  When he or she feels pain, it must resonate. And the hero must have a relationship that resonates, whether it's a romance or a bromance.  In Captain America: The First Avenger, there are two heartbreaking scenes: when Bucky falls to this death, and at the end when Steve talks about his date with Peggy while his plane is going down.  We now know that Bucky survives to become the Winter Soldier and that Steve survives to become an Avenger, but Steve and Peggy didn't know at the time.  (And, not being a comics fan, I didn't know that Bucky survived.)  Those two scenes, for me, were more heartbreaking than any scene between Clark & Lois in BvS or any scene between Clark and his father in Man of Steel. Hence, the second H is Heart.

 

Finally, when I'm watching a superhero movie that's dark and grim, I want to know that there's light at the end of the tunnel.  There has to be a victory or something that makes me want to come back to this fictional universe.  I want a hero that battles through the darkness and emerges into the light. That is what is appealing to me.  Hence, the third H is Hope.

 

P.S.  I could also add a fourth H - Humility.  In my opinion, BvS sometimes seemed a bit too pretentious (with its God v. man theme, and religious allegorical visuals) and Bruce Wayne came across a bit too arrogant for me.  Zack Snyder and Ben Affleck just take themselves and their movies way too seriously.  In contrast, while Tony Stark is arrogant, he knows that he's arrogant  - and RDJ plays off that arrogance with such charm and charisma that you don't mind.  Then there's the appealing Steve Rogers (as played by Chris Evans), who always remains humble and "a good man."

Edited April 18, 2016 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

Ok I know that Supergirl is cheesy and maybe over the top in it's message of "hope" but I have to say that it's kind of a nice change of pace to the doom and gloom that Arrow can be.

[Delphi]

Jim Gordon is so damn unlikable in Gotham. I swear. Harvey is a better cop than him. Bruce is a more intriguing protagonist. He's just so terrible and no fun to watch.

[nksarmi]

1. Alex Danvers is my hero.

2. I love Martian Manhunter.  I hope DC approved him for Supergirl because they have no intension of using him in the movies ever. Because he is pretty much like GG's Flash - at this point, I really don't think they could do it better.

3. MB is perfect as Supergirl - like could not BE more perfect.

4. Sometimes I need something light and fluffy and Supergirl is just a wonderful bright, beautiful, feel-good show. So I really, really, really hope it gets renewed.

Edited April 19, 2016 by nksarmi

[Starfish35]

Well congrats to Supergirl (the show) for not killing off a major character. :)

I'm not sure how I feel about the rest of it to be honest.

[Trini]

This Vulture article is about Calista Flockhart on Supergirl, but I liked what it said about the rest of the Berlanti-verse:

... Indeed, Flockhart’s performance is a perfect example of a larger phenomenon in the world of the superhero shows produced by Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg: The more experienced performers are way more interesting to watch than the younger ones.

That suite of shows has become a massive and unexpected hit in the past few years. ... The leads are almost always young, sexy people who do young, sexy things like grappling with will-they-or-won't-they romance and struggling with their inner demons while trying to figure out their role in the world. The actors who wield those roles, understandably, take them very seriously, and their performances are therefore often dragged down by the gravity they’re giving to their lines.

But you can always count on getting a thrill when you see some of the older folks having genuine fun with the bizarre premise of being on a show about superheroes. Victor Garber’s scientist Martin Stein on The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow is an uptight, stuffy delight. When Jesse L. Martin smiles as the Flash’s adopted dad, the whole world smiles with him. John Barrowman has gradually made Malcolm Merlyn (or should I say … the Dark Archer!) one of the most interesting characters on Arrow. Tom Cavanagh displays a mastery of simmering menace as The Flash's Harrison Wells. And perhaps the greatest of them all is Wentworth Miller, who has reinvented longtime Flash villain Captain Cold as an eternally condescending, relentlessly wry comedic powerhouse who is basically the main reason to watch Legends of Tomorrow.

[BkWurm1]

1. Alex Danvers is my hero.

2. I love Martian Manhunter.  I hope DC approved him for Supergirl because they have no intension of using him in the movies ever. Because he is pretty much like GG's Flash - at this point, I really don't think they could do it better.

3. MB is perfect as Supergirl - like could not BE more perfect.

4. Sometimes I need something light and fluffy and Supergirl is just a wonderful bright, beautiful, feel-good show. So I really, really, really hope it gets renewed.

Supergirl still has it's faults and so far it's failed to make me feel anything for James and Kara as a couple but that's ok, because the relationship between Kara and Alex is the real love story on the show. :)

 

Back when Smallville hinted that MM was being cast I remember a lot of people really excited because he was their favorite character and by the time the series was over, I loved him too though I kind of thought it was down to the actor and yet while I also give lots of credit to the actor on Supergirl playing him because, yes he's great, I think the character itself is easy to love.  I was SOOOO afraid they were going to kill him off.  Phew!   

 

And Cat called Kara Kara! 

Edited April 19, 2016 by BkWurm1

[foreverevolving]

This Vulture article is about Calista Flockhart on Supergirl, but I liked what it said about the rest of the Berlanti-verse:

Am I the only one who is annoyed that list of actors only contains you know.. male actors?

[manbearpig]

Am I the only one who is annoyed that list of actors only contains you know.. male actors?

 

Well...pretty much all of the more experienced regular actors on those DC shows are male, which is off course a problem itself. I would have subbed in Susanna Thompson for Barrowman, but the writer of the article was probably just thinking about more recent seasons. I completely agree with the article about Flockhart though. I'd never really seen her in anything before Supergirl but she's so watchable. I can't even describe it but I just love the way she delivers dialogue. I'd love to see her deliver a Shonda Rhimes rant on Scandal.

[FurryFury]

I hated her in the pilot but she's won me over since then. But I just really want for the show to drop James and James/Kara. They've fast reaching Lauriver levels of unwatchability. (Although it does help that James doesn't have a storyline, thus his screentime is low).

[Velocity23]

The only time Malcom was interesting was in s1. We could have had Moira, but we are stuck with Merlyn x.x

[kismet]

Am I the only one who is annoyed that list of actors only contains you know.. male actors?

I've got to agree with @Manbearpig, I don't think the article was trying to be sexist there is just no older women in the Flarrowverse in the past two seasons outside of Cat Grant. Moira/ST would have been a good mention, but she's been off the show for two seasons and I think the author was trying to be current. I guess theoretically you could include Donna/CR, but she is only a guest star, so you rarely see her. Plus as much as I love CR, I wouldn't put her in the same level of thespian or name recognition as the other "mature" actors. But at least Arrow does try to have at least 1 actress over the age of 30 on the show (even if they dress her like a 22yr old), Flash doesn't have any.

 

Hopefully the Flarrowverse can change and incorporate more mature Females. It's one of the reasons I think Arrow needs to have a big bad that is a female. NM/DD got screen time just for a few quippy lines, they could do the same thing with the right actress & character. But unless its a mask or big bad, I don't see the actress getting a lot of screen time. Since Arrow seems to focus on the mission & not the characters lives outside of the Lair. And frankly, the last thing Arrow needs is another Mask - so I vote Big Bad Female. As for the Flash, they just need to learn to write for the female gender as a whole, I don't want to see them add more females when they can't even right for the ones they have now. But a female mature mentor would probably not hurt BA, perhaps they can get Joe a female partner around his own age. It might be good for both the actors to have someone else to play off of.

[Menrva]

But I just really want for the show to drop James and James/Kara. They've fast reaching Lauriver levels of unwatchability. (Although it does help that James doesn't have a storyline, thus his screentime is low).

So glad I'm not alone in not seeing any chemistry between Kara and James. And right from the start too. Just nothing. I don't dislike the character, though it's true, he doesn't have much of a story, just that he's Superman's friend.

I really liked the actor who plays James in the USA show Necessary Roughness, but here, wow, he's kind of a dud. When they kissed in the episode, my husband and kids were cheering (well, except for my 8 year old, who thinks kissing is gross) and I was the lone dissenting voice. My husband said, "But that's how it is in the comics! Kara and Jimmy are a couple." And he earned a glare from me. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

I've never read any Batman comics, but for some reason I always had the impression that Jim Gordon was supposed to be a squeaky clean guy.  Is that not the case?  He seems pretty corrupt over on Gotham, but I've missed a bunch of episodes and barely pay attention when I do bother watching, so I could be wrong about that.  I've lost interest, but I keep tuning in because I guess I'm crazy like that.

[Starfish35]

For some reason I keep forgetting that Wentworth Miller is in his 40s.

[FurryFury]

My husband said, "But that's how it is in the comics! Kara and Jimmy are a couple." And he earned a glare from me.

 

But are they, really? I don't think Supergirl has a definitive comic book pairing. Nothing like GA/BC or West Allen.

[NumberCruncher]

I've got to agree with @Manbearpig, I don't think the article was trying to be sexist there is just no older women in the Flarrowverse in the past two seasons outside of Cat Grant. Moira/ST would have been a good mention, but she's been off the show for two seasons and I think the author was trying to be current. I guess theoretically you could include Donna/CR, but she is only a guest star, so you rarely see her. Plus as much as I love CR, I wouldn't put her in the same level of thespian or name recognition as the other "mature" actors. But at least Arrow does try to have at least 1 actress over the age of 30 on the show (even if they dress her like a 22yr old), Flash doesn't have any.

There's also Audrey Marie Anderson (Lyla) who is 41.

[tv echo]

Another take on the big debate...

Marvel vs. DC: Which universe wins?
by Caitlin Petrakovitz and Iyaz Akhtar   April 18, 2016
http://www.cnet.com/special-reports/marvel-cinematic-universe-dc-extended-universe-showdown/

If you’re a continuity junkie, Marvel’s Avengers universe is your pick. The Marvel universe is filled with stories crossing through all of their properties, from the big screen to the streaming one, which makes it a lot of fun to get involved. But sometimes it can get a little overwhelming, and without watching every single show and movie, you may miss some inside jokes or references to past events.
 

If you’re afraid a vast, sprawling film universe will mess with your favorite TV show, stick with DC. DC’s universes are more localized, and you can enjoy smaller TV properties without worrying about how it affects the big films. Since the main movies are just getting started, it’s hard to predict what we can expect in terms of interconnectivity. It’s possible that by introducing a multitude of characters at once it will be easier to follow each storyline as DC narrows each film by character.

[nksarmi]

I hated her in the pilot but she's won me over since then. But I just really want for the show to drop James and James/Kara. They've fast reaching Lauriver levels of unwatchability. (Although it does help that James doesn't have a storyline, thus his screentime is low).

 

I might be ok with them keeping James around if they dropped James/Kara.  I'd settle for a case of temporary freaking amnesia to get it dropped lol.

[Menrva]

But are they, really? I don't think Supergirl has a definitive comic book pairing. Nothing like GA/BC or West Allen.

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea. And I lack the energy or the desire to actually look it up. I just can't stand hearing the Because Comics! argument. And in my own home, no less! ;p

[nksarmi]

For some reason I keep forgetting that Wentworth Miller is in his 40s.

 

I don't think I ever knew that, but it would be easy to forget - he seems rather young as Captain Cold.  I keep think BR has to be older than he is - not that he looks it (he looks great for 36). It's just that it feels like his Superman movie was soooo long ago that I age him up.

[Sakura12]

I think they made Captain Cold older than Wentworth. He met his kid self in 1975 and that kid looked to be about 6 or 7. 

 

How old is Kendra supposed to be? (not counting her past lives)

Edited April 19, 2016 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

I don't think I ever knew that, but it would be easy to forget - he seems rather young as Captain Cold.

He does, but according to the show Snart is 46 (if I'm remembering correctly he was supposed to be 5 in 1975).

[kismet]

There's also Audrey Marie Anderson (Lyla) who is 41.

To me she is still part of the younger generation. For me because she is married to Dig, I don't think of her as old. I think she is really only sypposed to be mid30s on the show. She's not really in the older range. If we start putting her in the older group we might as well move SA & DR since they are knocking on 40s door. Also she is just a guest star only. I probably would have not had included Wentworth Miller in the other group either. To me he is not part of the older group. He's still young to me.

[Delphi]

I didn't realize that Audrey, Wentworth or David were in their 40s. I'm gonna age terribly. :/