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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
in Arrow

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

There's the rumor that Black Canary could be in the Justice League Movie

OH!  That would be sooo confusing to me. (Blinks eyes innocently)  Two Black Canaries existing in different mediums at the same time?  I don't think people will be able to handle that.  They should REALLY nip that problem in the bud.  Best to just keep it to the movie universe, don't ya think?  ;)

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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

That Suicide Squad trailer! Awesome. I actually think I'll enjoy the Suicide Squad movie way more than BvS. And, just judging from the Youtube hits and comments, SS seems to have a lot more buzz than BvS. It would actually be hilarious if SS ends up making more money than BvS, though that probably won't happen.

 

But the Wonder Woman footage they released was everything I wanted. It looks good. I'm really hopeful that DC will get her right.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

They didn't, and I have to admit the more footage I see from Suicide Squad movie they I am happy with their Harley choice. Margot Robbie seems to have captured the essence of the character in a very intriguing way.. I look forward to the movie now more than ever.

 

I'm finger crossing for WW too, if only because the entire future for more female centered movies probably lays on its shoulders, if it fails we probably won't see any more DC heroine movies for years to come :-/

Edited by foreverevolving
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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

She seemed to have the accent in the first SS trailer they released (at comic-con) though it did kinda disappear in this one. I don't really mind. As long as Margot Robbie portrays the attitude and comes off as a very believable Harley Quinn, I'm good. So far, I've enjoyed her bits in the trailers.

 

I'm finger crossing for WW too, if only because the entire future for more female centered movies probably lays on its shoulders, if it fails we probably won't see any more DC heroine movies for years to come :-/

 

Yeah, me too. I hope it gets huge box office numbers and good to great reviews. I think a lot's riding on the success of WW's movie. Not only for DC but Marvel will, for sure, cite her movie (if it fails) as ~reasons why we'll never get their female heroines on the big screen. Didn't Marvel already push back the Captain Marvel movie? If WW fails, Feige and co. just might get cold feet about heroines and feel justified in never giving Black Widow her movie ever.

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Chaser

Chaser

It seems like Suicide Squad adjusted their marketing. It's like they embraced the crazy. After rewatching the trailer (again), I realized that they didn't give the spotlight to Will Smith's character. It revolved around but really highlighted Harley. Smart move. I also liked the glimpses of The Joker. Bohemian Rhapsody was an fantastic music choice.

 

The trailer got me excited. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Did they acknowledge what happened to Felicity during this Flash episode?

No mention of anything Arrow, but then they wouldn't, would they since we're supposed to be left wondering if she's dead.  I think this is the time of year when the two show timelines do not match up. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

It wasn't one of the best but there were some good things in it.

 

I thought Henry Czerny did a great job of humanizing a supervillain.  He was completely batshit crazy but instead of going over the top, as Mark Hamill and just about everyone else does, he made Winn Sr. seem human and even got me to sympathize with him. At least a little.

 

I liked Cat's interview with Lucy, and Cat's snarking about her yoga pants and doing nothing.  Well played, Cat.

 

I thought Hank's dilemma about whether to use his MM powers was good if rather heavy-handed.  And I felt for both Winn and Kara when he told her how he felt and she couldn't return his feelings.  Good acting from both of them.

 

But a lot of the episode was too much.  Hank wiping out the guy's memory entirely (he could have just hit the hypocampus and knocked out new memories), Supergirl lounging around at home in her Supergirl outift (which had to be really dirty by then), her inability to get out of the quicksand, and I really don't like Lucy's relationship with James. I'm not sure what the writers are going for, some people think it's how a couple solves problems together but it just seems so dysfunctional to me

 

Really, really, really need The Flash to stop referring to Barry in any capacity as Iris's brother. They did it twice tonight so far and...please stop.

The Flash went even lower on my list now that Patty is gone, presumably so that Barry can get together with Iris by the end of the season.  I thought Barry/Patty had a nice sparkle and they were fun, unlike the sibling relationship Iris has with Barry.  I guess it wasn't AK who decided that Arrow was going to go beyond comic book canon because he's certainly determined to stick Barry and Iris together.

 

I'm also tired of the father/son dynamics on Flash being the only relationships that matter.  Not missing AK on Arrow at all any more.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I've been generally enjoying Supergirl, but last night's episode was not a good episode IMO. Ugh. Anyone else watch it?

I actually really enjoyed the emotional stuff, thought Winn finally got a chance to shine. Apparently I do like a little emotional drama and angst, ha, ha.

 

 I laughed that nobody apparently checks for hidden cameras anymore (even huge ones hung on purses) Made me think of Malcolm.  I eye rolled hard that 1) Supergirl could get caught in quicksand and 2) that she would suffocate quickly, and 3) that no one got impaled by an ice shard, but I'm so used to ignoring the latest ridiculous reason why Barry can't immediately take care of the bad guy before anyone even knows he's there that I just rolled with it. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I thought Jeremy Jordon did a great job. I just have a really hard time with the unrequited love thing. And I don't like James/Lucy, and a lot of it was just soooo dumb. :( Supergirl not being able to get out of quicksand, Alex not noticing the camera on her purse, that the guards at a maximum security prison would be that easily taken out....I don't know. Maybe I'm just generally grumpy this evening. :(

On another note, the Wonder Woman footage was good. I really hope the movie is.

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bijoux

bijoux

Damn! that Suicide Squad trailer! holy shit!!! Most fun trailer in a long long time! and they used a Queen song.. because why not!

 

It's Bohemian Rhapsody. It should be used abundantly as far as I'm concernec. Also, Harley's my favorite. That's not what they said. Heh.

 

The Flash went even lower on my list now that Patty is gone, presumably so that Barry can get together with Iris by the end of the season.  I thought Barry/Patty had a nice sparkle and they were fun, unlike the sibling relationship Iris has with Barry.  I guess it wasn't AK who decided that Arrow was going to go beyond comic book canon because he's certainly determined to stick Barry and Iris together.

 

Why is she gone?

Where's the Wonder Woman footage you're talking about?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Why is she gone?

 

She's going back to school to become a CSI investigator, her real dream job.  Why now?  Cause Barry's an idiot and totally jerks her around.  He's afraid she'd be targeted, so he decides not to tell her he's the Flash, but then she IS targeted anyway so he still doesn't tell her and then it looks like he randomly changed his mind, but nope, too late, Patty's leaving. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Regarding Patty/Flash: I kind of liked how they had Patty leave.  She's a grown up and she realized that Barry is not in the same place emotionally that she is, so rather than whine about or wait for him to get there - she is off to pursue a professional dream of hers.  It wasn't an ugly break up - it just was.  it seemed so freaking mature.

 

And I don't care if Barry DID decide to tell her - he wasn't going to until Iris told him to.  The truth is that no matter how much he enjoyed kissing Patty - Barry was no where NEAR ready to share that part of his life with her, which to me means he wasn't in love with her.  He wanted to tell Iris from the start and you could see that it pained him not to tell her on more than one occasion.  Ok, sure, he deferred to Joe (which is part of why Barry is a boy no matter how old he is) but he wanted to tell Iris.  No part of him was itching to tell Patty.  Or Linda for that matter.  I think the show is using this as the difference between how Barry feels about Iris versus how he feels about other women in his life.

 

Regarding WW: I didn't watch the special, but I'm glad people are getting excited about this footage.  I want that movie to do well so badly - half because I've wanted a WW movie since they were talking about having Lucy Lawless play the part and half because this probably is going to be the movie by which people decide if they want to do other female-led superhero movies so it needs to work.  I might see it multiple times just because lol.

 

Regarding SS: Wow that does look good!  I did see Katanna in it right?  Clearly I need to Google her background....

 

Regarding Supergirl: I actually really liked this weeks episode.  I think it was because Winn acknowledged his feelings so maybe now he move past them since she obviously does not return them.  Again, it was an amazingly mature take away from his experience with his dad (I can't bottle things up) and he handled it in a fairly mature way when she said "I don't want things to change."  I was kind of impressed because I didn't originally think they were going to let that character be so mature.  At least now, he can deal with his feelings and decide if he wants to support her as a friend rather than it being about unrequited love/hero worship.

 

I don't like what they are doing with Jimmy but I love Cat snarking on them.  I mean, I don't actually mind the Jimmy and Lucy relationship, but if Cat is right and Jimmy has feelings for Kara that extend beyond her being Supergirl - then it really is unfair to string Lucy along.  I hope they fix that soon.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I wen looking for the WW footage from last night and found it (I have to say she looks perfect in her WW2 Diana Prince outfit) but I also found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fis-9Zqu2Ro

 

This confirms that I am going to love Ben Afflack as Batman and that despite the lack of color, this movies looks great.  I still only remain questionable on the casting choice for Lex (he doesn't feel like Lex to me or at least he's Lex mixed with a bit of Joker).  Lex is more stoic, less maniacal, but whatever.   

 

The first appearance of Wonder Woman rocks.

Edited by nksarmi
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nksarmi

nksarmi

They're both such glum bastards in the trailer. Bruce in particular looks like he could do with a year or five of napping.

 

LOL but that's true to Batman and since they are going with an older Batman/Bruce -  I don't think he needs to play up the billionaire playboy Bruce image anymore.  I'm so glad they went with the older/experience Batman (who has presumably mentored and loss some of the Bat family).  And since Titans isn't going to get made - I hope they work Barbara and Nightwing into a future movie.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

I wen looking for the WW footage from last night and found it (I have to say she looks perfect in her WW2 Diana Prince outfit) but I also found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fis-9Zqu2Ro

 

This confirms that I am going to love Ben Afflack as Batman and that despite the lack of color, this movies looks great.  I still only remain questionable on the casting choice for Lex (he doesn't feel like Lex to me or at least he's Lex mixed with a bit of Joker).  Lex is more stoic, less maniacal, but whatever.   

 

The first appearance of Wonder Woman rocks.

Regarding Lax, this is an Origin story for him in a sense- from what I read Lax used to be a bit different in earlier incarnation than the current ones we know.. also apparently he had his orange hair till adulthood than the more known hair lost as a kid.. so I'm intrigued, I feel like we'll see a turnaround with lax.

But to be honest? I kind of like this crazy ass Lax, he's different because he doesn't appear menacing like Clark/superman does body wise, but he is, imo, far more dangerous because of that.

Don't judge a book by its cover and so forth.

Edited by foreverevolving
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Ew, I just saw this Guggenheim quote regarding Vandal Savage and Kendra:

 

What makes him interesting is the fact that he actually loves Kendra. He’s not enjoying killing her — he regrets the circle of violence he’s trapped in,” Guggenheim says. “Left to his own devices, she would just fall in love with him and he wouldn’t be compelled to kill her. But alas, like many relationships, that’s not the case.

 

Nope, not "interesting."  Just so, so gross.  There were hints of this in the crossover episode when Vandal proclaimed to Khufu that he would "know Shiera as you have known her" (while stroking her face like the creeper that he is).  THIS is the motivation that you decided to give your season-long (series-long?) villain.  Gross, but I've grown to expect as much from MG. 

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Kendra has to deal with both stranger (but past-lives lover) Hawkman lusting after and Vandal being a evil creeper who can feel when she awakens. I'd be Ok with it if the actors were better and the show runners really would go to the ick evil factor with it. Instead they have the cartoonish nature of our Hawks and Vandal. 

Edited by tarotx
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

Ew, I just saw this Guggenheim quote regarding Vandal Savage and Kendra:

 

 

Nope, not "interesting."  Just so, so gross.  There were hints of this in the crossover episode when Vandal proclaimed to Khufu that he would "know Shiera as you have known her" (while stroking her face like the creeper that he is).  THIS is the motivation that you decided to give your season-long (series-long?) villain.  Gross, but I've grown to expect as much from MG. 

I liked your quote, but mostly for the scorn you heaped on MG's quote.  Savage is not trapped, and he thinks he loves her, but he doesn't really.  Just because he stalks her across space and lifetimes doesn't make him less of a stalker.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Ew, I just saw this Guggenheim quote regarding Vandal Savage and Kendra:

 

 

Nope, not "interesting."  Just so, so gross.  There were hints of this in the crossover episode when Vandal proclaimed to Khufu that he would "know Shiera as you have known her" (while stroking her face like the creeper that he is).  THIS is the motivation that you decided to give your season-long (series-long?) villain.  Gross, but I've grown to expect as much from MG. 

Holy shit! That's batshit crazy and massively gross, even for Guggie!

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Ew, I just saw this Guggenheim quote regarding Vandal Savage and Kendra:

 

Nope, not "interesting."  Just so, so gross.  There were hints of this in the crossover episode when Vandal proclaimed to Khufu that he would "know Shiera as you have known her" (while stroking her face like the creeper that he is).  THIS is the motivation that you decided to give your season-long (series-long?) villain.  Gross, but I've grown to expect as much from MG. 

 

Unless this will be handled with the nuance and holy fuck no this is wrong wrong wrong that I get from Jessica Jones, this is really a turn off for me. Yes, I get he's the villain blah blah blah, but I'm so very over this type of story.

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

I now hope against hope that Guggie has actually watched Jessica Jones, and *understood* it.

He probably think she should give Kilgrave another chance.

Mind you is there a man on Arrow who's not bordering on abusive to either his romantic partner or daughter?

Maybe there'll be a female writer on LoT who can write this like abuse and not in any way romantic. (That would be straws you see me clutch at.)

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

 

What makes him interesting is the fact that he actually loves Kendra. He’s not enjoying killing her — he regrets the circle of violence he’s trapped in,”

Here's a thought, Vandal --  stop killing her and embrace your mortality.  We all get to make choices.

 

And I don't care if Barry DID decide to tell her - he wasn't going to until Iris told him to.  The truth is that no matter how much he enjoyed kissing Patty - Barry was no where NEAR ready to share that part of his life with her, which to me means he wasn't in love with her.  He wanted to tell Iris from the start and you could see that it pained him not to tell her on more than one occasion.  Ok, sure, he deferred to Joe (which is part of why Barry is a boy no matter how old he is) but he wanted to tell Iris.  No part of him was itching to tell Patty.  Or Linda for that matter.  I think the show is using this as the difference between how Barry feels about Iris versus how he feels about other women in his life.

I don't like what they are doing with Jimmy but I love Cat snarking on them.  I mean, I don't actually mind the Jimmy and Lucy relationship, but if Cat is right and Jimmy has feelings for Kara that extend beyond her being Supergirl - then it really is unfair to string Lucy along.  I hope they fix that soon.

He wants to be James and she wants him to be Jimmy.  A big part of their problem in 12 words.  Also they have terrible communication.

 

Wasn't it Eddie who fought to tell Iris?  Barry may have wanted to tell her (I can't remember now) but he followed Joe instead.  Barry may think he's in love with Iris but his actions show otherwise.  Just like they made the mistake on Arrow in making Sara too much of the Black Canary leaving Laurel nothing to do but copy her, they made Iris/Eddie more mature and Barry/Patty more fun and sparkly than Barry/Iris.  B/I will always be compared to two better relationships, one of which ended because Eddie died, and the other because Barry was too immature.

Edited by statsgirl
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Wasn't it Eddie who fought to tell Iris?  Barry may have wanted to tell her (I can't remember now) but he followed Joe instead.  Barry may think he's in love with Iris but his actions show otherwise.  Just like they made the mistake on Arrow in making Sara too much of the Black Canary leaving Laurel nothing to do but copy her, they made Iris/Eddie more mature and Barry/Patty much more fun than Barry/Iris.  it will always be compared to two better relationships, one of which ended because Eddie died, and the other because Barry was too immature.

I agree with you about Iris/Eddie, but Barry/Patty was dull at ditchwater. Mind you the actress playing Patty wasn't half the actress that Candice Patton is.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I now hope against hope that Guggie has actually watched Jessica Jones, and *understood* it.

I don't see how; Guggie said Savage "actually loves Kendra." No one with any working brain cells thinks Kilgrave actually loves JJ. That is so incredibly massively grotesquely fucked up, I don't even know where to start. That's full on Nice Guy trying to get out of the Friend Zone but failing, so he has to kill her..."alas, like many relationships..." WTH?

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Here's a thought, Vandal --  stop killing her and embrace your mortality.  We all get to make choices.

 

 

He wants to be James and she wants him to be Jimmy.  A big part of their problem in 12 words.  Also they have terrible communication.l

 

Wasn't it Eddie who fought to tell Iris?  Barry may have wanted to tell her (I can't remember now) but he followed Joe instead.  Barry may think he's in love with Iris but his actions show otherwise.  Just like they made the mistake on Arrow in making Sara too much of the Black Canary leaving Laurel nothing to do but copy her, they made Iris/Eddie more mature and Barry/Patty much more fun than Barry/Iris.  it will always be compared to two better relationships, one of which ended because Eddie died, and the other because Barry was too immature.

 

I think I will always like Eddie / Iris more - but what I mean is that Barry at least showed some signs of wanting to open up to Iris about it. He didn't because of Joe but shit - he didn't show even an inkling of telling Linda (ok it was too early) or Patty about it.  They just really make Barry a little too immature period on the alter of the father/son dynamic to be honest.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Alternative explanation:  Barry wanted to tell Iris but that's natural; she was his best friend and confidante while they were growing up.  But now that Joe has taught him that it's perfectly okay to keep huge secrets from your loved ones and other people you want to be close to, he didn't see the need to tell Patty no matter how he felt about her.

 

AK is really screwing up the Barry/Iris relationship if he wants them to end up with each other.  Come to think of it, there hasn't been a single good relationship on this show since Ronnie died.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

DC'S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW ISN'T RETURNING ITS CHARACTERS TO THE FLASH AND ARROW ANY TIME SOON
BY TERRI SCHWARTZ   19 JAN 2016
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/20/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-isnt-returning-its-characters-to-the-flash-and-arrow-any-time-soon

"In the pilot, our characters are sort of plucked from 2016 and put on a time ship and travel throughout time. The fact of the matter is by the nature of that, they don't have any opportunity to interact with the characters of Flash and Arrow as far as Season 2 of Flash and Season 4 of Arrow are concerned," executive producer Marc Guggenheim told IGN. "We want to create a time travel show, and once you're doing that, you're not interacting with your other characters, which I think we were all very fine with."
 

He continued, "There's no plan to return them to their sister shows any time soon. We really love the ensemble that we've built, and a big part of the cache of the show is the dynamic between this group of people. While we always say it's fun to mix and match and constantly replenish the team, we don't want to do that without losing the magic that we currently have."
 

If and when the characters do return to their original shows, there is an concept for how to make them fit back into those TV worlds. "We have an idea of how to address it later on, but whenever anyone crosses over to any show, they cross over from the point in which they left the show that they're on," executive producer Andrew Kreisberg said in a separate conversation with IGN. "The next time hopefully we see Captain Cold and Heat Wave on The Flash, it will be because they've gone through this year of experiences and they will be very different people."
*  *  *
At this point in time, there also isn't a desire to spin off any more shows -- though, again, Guggenheim is reserving the right for the DC CW creative team to change their mind at a later date.
 

"Three interconnected shows, that feels very right. It would take an amazing idea or a huge groundswell of fan requests or something to make us do a fourth," he said. "I think we're very much aware that we're sitting at the casino table with the appropriate number of chips in front of us."

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Alternative explanation: Barry wanted to tell Iris but that's natural; she was his best friend and confidante while they were growing up. But now that Joe has taught him that it's perfectly okay to keep huge secrets from your loved ones and other people you want to be close to, he didn't see the need to tell Patty no matter how he felt about her.

AK is really screwing up the Barry/Iris relationship if he wants them to end up with each other. Come to think of it, there hasn't been a single good relationship on this show since Ronnie died.

Yeah, I can't read too much into Barry being hesitant to tell her. We started off with Patty going after metas, so him being hesitant was natural, and he seemed to be genuinely worried for her safety in last night's ep. So, I don't necessarily think it means anything regarding his feelings for Iris vs. Patty.

I didn't feel particularly attached to Patty, so I don't really care that she's gone, but I did like that the will-they-won't-they drama of Iris/Barry was completely dead. I guess we're going to be starting it up again soon? Bleh. Not really a fan of that no matter what the pairing is.

I really really really do need the writers on this show to cease and desist all brother references when people are talking to Iris about Barry.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I pretty much only ever watch television for 'shipping, but Flash has managed to completely turn me off every single romantic pairing they've ever had. And on top of it, they've given me a hardcore anti-ship of the likes I haven't experienced in nearly a decade. Because every time there's a sibling reference to Barry/Iris, everything stops and the only thing going through my brain is NOTP NOTP STOP IT STOP IT NOTP THIS IS GROSS STOP IT NOTP.

 

Congrats, Kreisberg. You've broken the girl whose motto in life is "I 'ship therefore I am".

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I don't anti-ship Barry/Iris, but I haven't seen anything to make me interested in that pairing in a very long time, and they hurt their cause everytime they draw a family connection between them.

 

As far as LoT, I am rooting for its success because a) yay, new show, but more importantly, b) it keeps MG from focusing too much of his energies on Arrow. I think the show has greatly benefited from moving out from under his full control, and I don't want that to change in any way. 408 felt like S3 again, and ain't nobody got time for that.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Because every time there's a sibling reference to Barry/Iris, everything stops and the only thing going through my brain is NOTP NOTP STOP IT STOP IT NOTP THIS IS GROSS STOP IT.

I don't anti-ship them at all. I could get on board SS WestAllen if Barry matured a bit and quit making bad choices. BUT WHY DO THEY KEEP DRAWING THAT SIBLING COMPARISON?! Bleck. I'm okay with Barry calling Joe dad, but no to the rest.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Peggy was getting over Steve all last year, so no, they didn't do anything last season. I think he kind of liked her, if I remember correctly. She has chemistry with all those guys, though. Even whatshisdouche from One Tree Hill.

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