Here And Now - General Discussion

[DrivingSideways]

This show is AWFUL.  I'm kind of hate watching it at this point.  Even the characters I like are so bad.  Am I supposed to find Kristen empowering or cool?  I find myself actively hoping she will be bullied.  I wanted to smack her when she was interrogating the genderfluid kid (I can't remember his name) and rifling rudely through his stuff.

Duc's speech at the Realtor of the Month thing was weird.  I would be creeped out if someone's guru was brought up on stage at a professional event.  I laughed a lot at the lady who mocked him at the pool.

I really thought that Haley's bday party was going in a different direction... like the whole town was racist and avoiding them or something.  I mean otherwise... coincidentally ALL of Haley's classmates bailed?  

For a show that has some decent actors, everybody is struggling to make this material work.  It makes me sad.  I want to like this family but this show is so horrible.

[scrb]

Besides the mystical thing with Ramon, there doesn't seem to be a plot direction.

On the surface the family is all lovey-dovey but some of them keep secrets from each other like Duc's possible double-life.

Greg thinks Duc's life coach philosophy is bullshit but won't tell him. Ashley and Greg are going to try to be better spouses but their little secrets may yet come out.

Want to see the family members clash sometimes like the Fischers did often.  I can believe Farid and Layla would argue about religion and the lack of civility with the imam.  But as a professional therapist, I would think Farid wouldn't be so confrontational, despite his traumatic memories.

[iggysaurus]

On 2/12/2018 at 9:02 PM, slasherboy said:

But is it true to life that siblings/siblings and parents/children talk so much about sex, saying fuck and asking intimate questions?  

It's probably true to life for some people, but I'm with you - I can't really relate to how graphic and open they all are about intimate things, when speaking with family members. My family isn't like that at all. We aren't super extreme in the other direction either - I mean I can talk about relationships with my family, but just not graphically about sex.  

On 2/21/2018 at 11:01 AM, luna1122 said:

I think he's RIDICULOUSLY beautiful.

Re: Ramon. God yes. I had never seen the actor before and I was just like, "WHO is this??" To me he looks like a young Johnny Depp in whatever era it was that he had longer hair. And he (the Ramon actor) reminds me of someone else too from the 90s that I can't place.  I thought right away that there would probably be a lot of people online saying "Ew, he looks greasy" because that seems to be the default reaction to anyone who has longer hair or a scruffy look these days ... compared to the aforementioned 90s when that was very much considered "hot" for guys. As a Gen Xer, I still find that look hot. :) 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Between no one RSVPing to the birthday party and Hailey having a tiny bit of attitude with Ashley, I thought that one of the other parents would reveal that none of the other kids wanted to go because Hailey was mean to them or that there was some kind of incident at school, but nope. Just turns out that every single parent in her class is rude and thoughtless. 

[iggysaurus]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:54 AM, iMonrey said:

Simply put, "white" is not a culture. If you want to start a British Pride or Irish Pride or Italian Pride club that's one thing, but "White Pride?" That's not a thing. I

I agree with you, but didn't they want to have a club for "Northern Europeans" or something? It wasn't just "white."  I don't know if Northern European is really a culture either, but it's slightly more specific than white. (Though, arguably, just a euphemism for white in which case it's a moot point.)

[Caseysgirl]

I have to admit the only character I’m invested in is Ramon ( and that’s for very shallow reasons) but I want to like it more so I’m staying for a while. Alan Ball really has a disdain for New Ager’s it seems.

[jennylauren123]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Between no one RSVPing to the birthday party and Hailey having a tiny bit of attitude with Ashley, I thought that one of the other parents would reveal that none of the other kids wanted to go because Hailey was mean to them or that there was some kind of incident at school, but nope. Just turns out that every single parent in her class is rude and thoughtless. 

I agree. I was waiting for a reason, for a reveal, and nothing. Never an explanation. Was it just a storyline to show cracks in the marriage? If so, it was not well done.

[luna1122]

I don't know, I'm still liking the show. the actors keep me interested, even when the  characters are baffling, I think. And I also watch for Ramon, for shallow reasons.

Holly Hunter's character can be so abrasive....like with her daughter, delicately decimating her life's work compared to her own 'selfless' need to 'save the world'. And she seemed like a ball-buster to her husband in the pilot, leading a few folks to say no wonder Tim Robbins had a hooker on the side...but in the last two episodes, she's almost kittenish and coy and fluttery around him. I guess getting properly laid did that for her. I'm curious about the rich guy they keep mentioning, who had a thing for her...I'm guessing he's going to show up at some point.

I didn't get the birthday party thing either...NO kids showed up, and NO parents responded? Does everyone just hate them, and their little girl?

Duc is pretty but man, he's really kind of a douchebag.

I am an atheist who has no patience for anyone proselytizing to me, but Farid getting wine-blitzed and telling off his wife's Imam was a little out of line. The imam was annoying AF, and Farid clearly has good reasons for his feelings, but he accepted an invitation to the man's home, and went in with a chip on his shoulder. He should have just turned down the invite, or else, smoked a little more of the weed that made him accept it in the first place. I agreed with him, but his behavior here wasn't charming, and did dishonor his wife.

Intrigued about what's going on with Henry. I thought he was sleepwalking too...who ghosts out and leaves their phone behind?

I have no idea where they're going with Ramon's visions, which is sort of nice. This show has its problems, but I'm still gonna watch.

[luna1122]

On ‎03‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 1:20 AM, iggysaurus said:

 

Re: Ramon. God yes. I had never seen the actor before and I was just like, "WHO is this??" To me he looks like a young Johnny Depp in whatever era it was that he had longer hair. And he (the Ramon actor) reminds me of someone else too from the 90s that I can't place.  I thought right away that there would probably be a lot of people online saying "Ew, he looks greasy" because that seems to be the default reaction to anyone who has longer hair or a scruffy look these days ... compared to the aforementioned 90s when that was very much considered "hot" for guys. As a Gen Xer, I still find that look hot. :) 

For me, he's a young Timothy Olyphant.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

He should have just turned down the invite, or else, smoked a little more of the weed that made him accept it in the first place.

I was surprised that he didn’t go visit one of the many other weed stores in Portland to chill out before that dinner. He had clearly been avoiding accepting that guy’s dinner invitation for a long time (based on how surprised his wife was last week when he finally accepted) so he KNEW that these topics would come up at dinner so why did he decide to go in with wine and an attitude instead of finding a way to calm down beforehand? I guess maybe he had resigned himself to having the inevitable fight but man. 

[bilgistic]

Plus, Farid didn't bring the baklava his wife asked to bring! That's a punishable crime! Baklava would've made everyone happy.

Or maybe that's just me. I love baklava.

[Rahul]

On 3/5/2018 at 2:58 PM, iMonrey said:

I see now why critics were so harsh with this show having seen the first four episodes. The first two were rather intriguing and engaging, but now it's starting to fall apart and feel a bit heavy-handed and self-important. The conversation between Kristen and Navid, in particular, seemed especially didactic.

That's the problem I've had with this show from day one--the political undercurrents are not handled with any sort of finesse. Also, the show is all over the place tonally and has not found a balance between the preternatural and domestic elements; it seems like an ill-conceived mishmash of pilot premises or failed experiment.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The cringeworthy conversation between Kristen and Navid seemed intentionally bad. I thought the writers were showing us that even though she has grown up with hippie parents and diverse siblings in a liberal city like Portland, she still has no tact or subtlety when she encounters people who are different. She also seems very emotionally immature even for a 17 year old high school student (in general, not just with Navid), which may be partly due to the fact that she's the youngest in the family.

[The Solution]

Unfortunately, I think this show is quickly moving from intriguing to farcical. That being said, both the scene where Audrey finds out about Famiko and the scene where she confronts Greg with her newfound knowledge were comedy GOLD. ("That's what they all tell you. Did you think she was going to tell you she was going to use the money to shoot heroin in her eyehole?") I also liked Navid saying that maybe Henry was hoboning. Especially when he said it right after he told Kristen that her boyfriend is gay. Ashley needs to take Haley and lose all these losers.

Sympathetic characters: Ashley, Ramon, Haley, Navid, Layla

On the fence: Kristen, Farid, possibly Henry - maybe this will resolve next week

Full-on douchenozzles: Greg, Audrey, Duc, Ashley's husband

And WTF was with the children's choir singing Rhiannon at the end?

It's like a burning car wreck now.

[woodscommaelle]

The casting of Navid was perfect. I love him as Farid's son. 

[humbleopinion]

Want to like this show but this episode was more eye rolling inducing than the first episode.

Find Tim Robbins and Holly Hunter are the weak links...their story arc is the least watchable.

Gonna stick it out because Alan Ball's worst work is still better than most.

[Fable]

I hadn’t seen this show and I found myself watching it by accident.  The TV was on the background while I was messing about with other things and when I sat down to watch, this is what was on.  I didn’t know what it was, but I left it on for a minute, fully intending to change the channel to something else.  That’s when Holly Hunter caught my eye, and I have always loved her, so I kept watching.

I found it interesting, but I will have to go back and check out the previous episodes to see if this is something I really care to get into for the long haul. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Fable

[bilgistic]

I keep waiting for actual things to happen, but nothing does.

There was a hot scene with Ramon and Henry, at least. I hate that I can't trust Henry anymore. Oh, Ramon, sweet boy, don't tell him you love him...

I really wanted Audrey to leave Greg's laptop open to the webpage with the message about the c*ck sl*ng (not trying to get ads for that showing up in my browser!), so when he walked into the bedroom, he saw immediately that he was busted.

[IslandGirl]

I think it's possible no one showed up or RSVP'd to the birthday party because it got out that Hailey Ashley was arrested & spent an afternoon in jail...

Edited March 13, 2018 by IslandGirl
ElectricBoogaloo helped me realize school age children rarely get arrested...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Rocked by a disturbing revelation, Ramon escapes into the past. Farid looks for meaning in a translation, while Kristen takes comfort in the music of the Torah. Audrey finds that an old college friend, Steven Benjamin, is receptive to her Empathy Initiative pitch. Greg works out with Duc and Michael, and submits a foreword to Duc’s soon-to-be-published self-help book.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

I think it's possible no one showed up or RSVP'd to the birthday party because it got out that Hailey was arrested & spent an afternoon in jail...

Ashley is the one who was taken to jail. Hailey is her daughter. Don't worry - I get characters' names mixed up all the time! I was momentarily confused because I thought OMG what did Hailey do to get arrested while she's still in elementary school?!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Duc: You know, constantly rescheduling meetings is a form of aggression.

Greg: Your mother's the therapist. I can only dissect the concept of shame into a thousand sub-concepts until we don't even know what we're talking about anymore.

Kristen: Why don't we go somewhere that nobody in our class has ever been before? Like the vegan strip club!
Navid: Yeah, cause everyone knows strip clubs save their platinum talent for 11am on a Monday.

Navid: Why do you like watching two guys fucking?
Kristen: Gay porn just feels more honest.
Navid: You watch porn for the honesty?

Audrey: I didn't say what you saw. I mean, I did technically, but the way they edited it, they purposely-
Steve: I can't tell you how many ten second sound bites of me have been edited so that I look like a hippie dippie liberal asshole.
Audrey: Well lucky you. I would have given anything to look like a hippie dippie liberal asshole instead of a raging white supermacist asshole.

Faculty member: I'd watch my behavior if I were you. Things you thought was charming at twenty are just embarrassing at sixty.

Ramon: I swear, everybody in this family just figures they can come by. Does nobody know how to use a phone, Duc?
Duc: Oh, yeah. We do. You're the one who screens and doesn't seem to know how to call us back.

Malcolm: This pecan pie - it's amazing.
Corey: It's my mother's recipe.
Jamila: It's a teaspoon of sugar, a handful of nuts, and five cups of butter.

Greg: She's not really a prostitute. She's putting herself through law school.

Audrey: You regifted me a cock sling from a hooker?!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, Audrey needs to STFU. As a therapist, she should know that it is not only RUDE but, more importantly, inappropriate to burst into the room while her son is in his session. She's been demanding that Farid put Ramon on medication and now that he has, she still isn't satisfied. I get that she's worried about Ramon but this rush to diagnose and medicate Ramon is exactly why she isn't his therapist - she is letting her personal feelings cloud her judgment.

Greg can STFU too. Farid telling Audrey to calm down is not being condescending. It's telling her to calm down, which she clearly needs to do. Somehow it's condescending for Farid to tell Audrey to calm down but it's totally okay for Audrey to then tell Ramon to calm down thirty seconds after Greg just reprimanded Farid for saying the exact same thing to Audrey. Got it, hypocrites!

Heh, I had to laugh when Greg pulled the "[Audrey] was a therapist" card and Farid pointed out that being a therapist is not the same as being a doctor. I wanted to high five him.

Henry can GTFO. Leaving in the middle of the night without a word is not normal. If it's really true that your friend relapsed and you had to go, LEAVE A FUCKING NOTE. It takes all of ten seconds to do that. Whatever you think your friend was going to do to himself, ten seconds more was not going to save him. That's not even about being a good boyfriend. That's just being a considerate person with manners.

Greg is a complete moron. Not only did he cheat on his wife by paying a hooker for sex, but he hasn't cleared the cookies on his laptop for over six months? I'm not condoning cheating but if you're going to cheat then don't do it in such an idiotic way. His messages to Famiko were so ridiculous too. You're her client so she's paid to pretend to like you so that you keep coming back and giving her money.

Edited March 12, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo
Typo

[iMonrey]

It feels like the show is sinking under the weight of its own self-importance. It was intriguing at first, but the more we get into it, the more didactic it feels. There's too much "Oh, you don't know what it's like to be black/celibate/middle aged/Muslim/a teenager" angst. They should focus more on whatever paranormal thing various family members and Farid are experiencing and less on trying to teach us about diversity. I don't really give a crap about Greg and Audrey's marital problems or whatever the hell Ashley and Duc are going through. Everyone seems like an over-privileged, west-coast liberal elite and I just cannot relate to any of them.

[Caseysgirl]

Understand that Audrey as a mother would be concerned with her son, but’s the way she barged into the Psychiatrist’s office,  disrupting whatever therapeutic alliance they may have been working on, and demanding that he be immediately cured before he ever took one of the medications that you had demanded, was beyond inappropriate for anyone & especially for a therapist!  Greg & Audrey are very unlikeable!

[Rahul]

Ramon is the least interesting of the Bayer-Boatwright siblings to me so I'm irked that he is getting the preponderance of the siblings screen time.  Perhaps he would bother me less if his hair didn't look like it had not been washed or combed in two months. I suppose the styling department is going for that unkempt rat's nest look synonymous with the questionable mental state of an unraveling psychiatric inpatient, but the tresses caught-in-eggbeater look is a bit much for someone we've seen shower regularly.

Duc's celibacy issues seem to be less about being in control of every aspect of his life and channeling his virility into more noble pursuits than escaping the shame and stigma of being the child of a sex worker. We've seen the same flashback to his childhood in Vietnam, being in the room while his mother was getting it on with a customer. I can imagine that took an immense toll on him psychologically.

I'm curious about Henry's dealings with the tent hobo. He seems to have practically moved in with Ramon. I'm not sure if he's a grifter or has other ulterior motives, but he is definitely one of the shadier characters in this series, despite his hippie dippy words of wisdom.

So far Peter Macdissi does not bug as Dr. Shokrani so it must've just been his character on Six Feet Under that was insufferable.

[woodscommaelle]

1 minute ago, Rahul said:

So far Peter Macdissi does not bug as Dr. Shokrani so it must've just been his character on Six Feet Under that was insufferable.

This! I could not stand Olivier but am loving Farid. 

[bilgistic]

20 minutes ago, Rahul said:

Ramon is the least interesting of the Bayer-Boatwright siblings to me so I'm irked that he is getting the preponderance of the siblings screen time.  Perhaps he would bother me less if his hair didn't look like it had not been washed or combed in two months. I suppose the styling department is going for that unkempt rat's nest look synonymous with the questionable mental state of an unraveling psychiatric inpatient, but the tresses caught-in-eggbeater look is a bit much for someone we've seen shower regularly.

His hair looks to me like it's supposed to be some semblance of dreadlocks, but his real life hair isn't locked in recent pictures. It is that long, though, so I don't think it's a wig. I can only assume it was locked specifically for the role. It's certainly not neatly done.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I suppose the styling department is going for that unkempt rat's nest look synonymous with the questionable mental state of an unraveling psychiatric inpatient, but the tresses caught-in-eggbeater look is a bit much for someone we've seen shower regularly.

I don't get the hair either, but I assumed it was some sort of millennial thing, or some sort of ethnic thing, or maybe a combination of both. I agree it's distracting beyond reason.

Quote

I'm curious about Henry's dealings with the tent hobo. He seems to have practically moved in with Ramon. I'm not sure if he's a grifter or has other ulterior motives, but he is definitely one of the shadier characters in this series, despite his hippie dippy words of wisdom.

Henry told Ramon the reason he disappeared was because his friend relapsed and he needed him. I'm assuming the tent guy is the same person and he's just checking up on him, but that Ramon's sister now has the wrong idea.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Has Ramon been to Henry’s place yet? I know they haven’t been seeing each other that long but it seems weird that Ramon told Henry he could keep the key to his place but they never hang out at Henry’s. I don’t think he has a secret family or anything but still.

I had to laugh when Ramon got all pissy about how everyone in his family just drops by instead of calling (even though Duc seems to be the only one who has shown up unannounced - last week when Greg knocked on his door, it was to give him a ride to Hailey’s birthday party), Duc very pointedly told him that everyone else in the family tries to call Ramon who never picks up and never calls back. 

[IslandGirl]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ashley is the one who was taken to jail. Hailey is her daughter. Don't worry - I get characters' names mixed up all the time! I was momentarily confused because I thought OMG what did Hailey do to get arrested while she's still in elementary school?!

OMG, that's hilarious!  Thanks ElectricBoogaloo... :-) 

[Kenz]

This was my last try at this mess. It's boring and depressing. I thought Alan Ball would produce something that was at least interesting, but nope.

[bilgistic]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Has Ramon been to Henry’s place yet? I know they haven’t been seeing each other that long but it seems weird that Ramon told Henry he could keep the key to his place but they never hang out at Henry’s. I don’t think he has a secret family or anything but still.

I don't remember seeing Ramon go to Henry's place. Maybe Henry lives in the tent village and was visiting his tent neighbor last week.

[Beezella]

On 3/12/2018 at 2:23 AM, bilgistic said:

I really wanted Audrey to leave Greg's laptop open to the webpage with the message about the c*ck sl*ng (not trying to get ads for that showing up in my browser!), so when he walked into the bedroom, he saw immediately that he was busted.

I kind of enjoyed the slow realization, the dawning gotcha.

Also, quote of the episode for me, "You regifted me a cock sling from a hooker?" Hey! Even worse than a fruitcake.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Beezella
forgot the end quote.

[SoCal Mema]

I've never seen so many story lines that move so freakin' slow.  I, too, was hopeful Alan Ball was going to bring us something really great to the table.  But no.

[JohnnyRotten]

What the hell is the dad thinking, writing love letters to a hooker? A) What prostitute is going to appreciate letters from a customer? B) It's so stupid to leave a paper trail for his wife. 

Maybe he's clueless enough to think she's really into him.

I love this show. Can't wait for the next ep.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, JohnnyRotten said:

What the hell is the dad thinking, writing love letters to a hooker? A) What prostitute is going to appreciate letters from a customer? B) It's so stupid to leave a paper trail for his wife. 

 

Maybe the love letters/emails were part of her service to him?  Perhaps he's one of those guys who is aroused by such things and he paid for the email communication, in addition to the personal visits.

But, yeah, what moron would leave a trail?  On one hand, I think it was too convenient of a plot convention.  But, on the other, I can also see it as Greg--on some level--was desperate for Audrey to discover this about him.  Sort of like how a serial killer will always leave clues....

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don’t think Greg wanted to get caught. I think his messages to Famiko were his way of trying to pretend that this was more than what it was: paid sex. His messages to her were attempts at conversation and emotional connection. Her responses were flirty and sexual. 

[scrb]

I liked Audrey's fury and the quick turn from the lovey-dovey family in the pilot.  You can tell things are real when Kristen feels awkward when she gets home and then Duc walks in on Audrey ranting and summarizing the whole affair.

So all is not well in this diverse, progressive family.

They're finding out secrets about each other even though the adopted siblings have been in the family since they were children, like Duc finds out Greg's brother was MIA and found in his village.  Greg doesn't really know Duc that well so he passes off his assistant's forward as his work -- you know that's going to come out too.

Of course we've seen some of Duc's secrets.  In this episode, he warns Ramon it's not good to look back.  It's not necessarily the life coaching advice he's touting, since he has a traumatic childhood memory that his adopted family doesn't know about.

I think the writers are mocking some of the stereotypes associated with Portland.  Babette's babble about how she has an Indian brother in law and how she taught her daughter not to recognize skin color seems to be mocking a certain disingenuous stance on race.  Her explanation came down to "some of my best friends are ..."

By contrast, Audrey and Greg walked the talk and inherited and raised 3 children of color, though that hyphenated surname may be satire as well.

 

I don't think Ball is holding up these characters, especially the faces they present to the outside world, as some ideals.  If this show is to become memorable, one way would be if they show genuine empathy for each other despite their secrets and their different experiences with the world.  For instance, they won't easily understand things like what happened to Ashley at the police station or having that other mother lie and claim that Ashley accused her of racism.

That's kind of what happened with the Fischer family by the end.  After years of bickering, they arrived at some kind of unconditional love for each other.  Or at least that's how I'd interpret the ending montage of that series, as each one passes and the sense of loss becomes palpable.

Right now though, it seems unlikely that Audrey will forgive or before forgiving, understand the ennui or midlife crisis that Greg was going through when he went to the hooker.  She won't give him the latitude she advocated for the kids who did that mock lynching at the school.  But the show may not even get a chance if viewers don't see a single thing to empathize with some of these characters.

Obviously the ones we are suppose to empathize the most with are Ramon and Farid, since they're haunted by traumatic memories or visions.  Farid doesn't get support from his family, including that uncle, while Ramon's family doesn't see what he's going through.  But right now, the fact that they're having similar visions is more head-scratching than poignant.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Greg joins Ramon and Kristen to the gaming expo, where "Realms," and Ramon, attract considerable attention. Bruised by some inappropriate remarks, Duc takes out his frustrations on a fellow biker after a mountain race. Audrey and Steven reminisce about old times and missed opportunities. Ashley questions her place in society, and her relationship with Malcolm. Navid gives Kristen a makeover as the two plot revenge against Madison. Farid crosses a line in his treatment of Ramon.

Edited March 20, 2018 by saoirse

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Greg is a moron. He really thought that bringing his TA Michael to meet Duc at the gym was a good idea? At least Michael approached Duc one on one to ask if it was okay that he was there. I mean, obviously they had already been working out so it was a little late by that point, but still. I thought it was nice that Michael made an effort to talk to Duc about it.

But between what he said about Duc's manuscript and the fact that he emailed the foreword he wrote to Greg, I know it's just a matter time before Duc finds out that Michael wrote it.

Part of me was laughing at Farid trying to translate his dream words phonetically online. There are a bunch of language apps that will let you speak into your phone in one language and they will translate it into another language  on the screen for you.

I know that Ramon and Henry haven't been dating long so they haven't disclosed their entire life histories to each other. Of course they haven't told each other everything about themselves, and that's okay. I also understand that you don't always want to tell new friends or romantic partners some of the stuff you aren't proud of (a friend of mine went on a first date with a woman who spewed out all of her issues in a nonstop monologue so it's okay not to blurt out EVERYTHING right away). But Ramon was right that Henry was deliberately keeping this from him. A lie of omission is still a lie. And I can see why Ramon was so hurt by it. He has been honest and told Henry about what he's been going through, which is not the easiest thing to admit, and in return Henry has been keeping this secret from him.

The one thing I thought was really shitty of Ramon was confronting Henry about it at work. That is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Whenever people do that on tv, I think dude, that is so rude! Don't go to someone's place of work and scream at them about your personal problems! Then I remembered that Ramon doesn't know anywhere else to find Henry. They met at the coffee place where Henry works and the only other place they hang out is at Ramon's apartment. I still think the best thing to do would have been for Ramon to wait for Henry outside of the coffee shop so they could go somewhere else to talk after his shift ended. Even the alley outside is better than yelling at him in front of customers his coworkers. I know you're upset and all, but have the common courtesy to wait a few hours to confront him, man. He doesn't deserve to lose his job over this. I'm glad that Ramon later realized that was not the right thing to do.

I also felt for Audrey. Watching someone you love in pain and knowing that there's nothing you can do ease that pain is a horrible and helpless feeling.

I know that Audrey is still really hurt about Greg's cheating so she's projecting her issues onto Ramon, but she was correct when she said (1) you are not at fault for expecting someone to treat you with respect and (2) if you can't trust someone, they don't deserve your love. Yes, couples can heal after cheating occurs but if you can't trust your partner, then you shouldn't be together. That's just a ticking time bomb.

Ugh, Chloe's mom is THE WORST. One of my best friends is an elementary school teacher so she has dealt with a lot of parents in denial. There are lots people who refuse to believe that their precious little angels would say or do anything bad. And then to have the fucking GALL to hug Ashley after denying that Chloe would ever say the word poopy? BLERG.

Layla is a far more compassionate person than I am. I don't think I could put up with being the housekeeper to my husband's asshole relative. Calling your nephew's mother a whore is not acceptable. You're entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean you have to be deliberately rude and disrespectful.

I loved that Layla and Navid were talking about what the iman said during the service they attended.

Greg can STFU. "I was lost and I had to do something" is not an acceptable reason for cheating on your wife with a prostitute. There are a million other things you can do if you feel lost.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Audrey: Are you going to the gym
Ashley: No, I have krav maga. It's the self-defense class I'm taking.
Audrey: How is it? Would I like it?
Ashley: No, I don't think so. It's kind of intense. Very much about hurting the other guy before he can hurt you.
Audrey: Is that something that interests you?
Ashley: Yeah.

Ashley: You can't be kind to dangerous people.

Michael: I've never felt so inadequate and inspired at the same time.

Ramon: How do you tell someone that you're fucking them for their indoor plumbing?

Greg: I want it on the record that despite appearances, I was once an athlete.
Duc: Yeah, and I was once a great finger painter.

Kristen: How often do you think about killing somebody?
Navid: Not that much. Bi-monthly?

Kristen: [The mosque] looks like a store.
Navid: We had a minaret and a big sign on the front that said "chock full of Muslims" but then we decided against it.

Iman: Some good, some evil, some purely agents of chaos like X-Men.

Farid: You're so sexy when you're condescending.

Ramon: I don't even know if he slept with that guy and even if he did, we didn't set any fucking rules.
Audrey: Honey, excuse me, but that is bull shit. You are not at fault for expecting someone to treat you with respect. You should not need notarized paperwork for someone you care about to behave with decency.

Greg: [Ramon] loves [Henry]. That matters.
Audrey: It doesn't matter. If you can't trust him, honey, he's not worth your love.

[Rahul]

So did Henry actually sleep with the other homeless guy in the tent? He didn't deny it to Ramon and he did look quite riddled with guilt when confronted. I thought these two were supposed to be the David and Keith of the show but who knows. We only have three episodes left in the season and I have no idea where any of these storylines are heading.

Who knew Greg's TA Michael had such nice arms under those plaid shirts he was wearing. I had an immediate sense of foreboding once we saw him biking at night while on the phone. I've witnessed one of those accidents firsthand where the driver's side door is suddenly swung open while a biker whizzes by, and the fallout is never pretty. Of course this happened to be a convertible with no metal frame on top of the window but then again Michael flew off his bike and through the glass shattering it entirely (which I've never seen happen) so there is no way he's coming away from this incident unscathed.

Now at least two of their children are aware of Audrey and Greg's marital issues. Kristen somewhat bore witness to the first fight and Duc overheard the most damning of details. I wonder if Duc will take it upon himself to heal the growing fissure between his parents. What exactly motivated him to tell his editor that his father wanted another crack at the forward when he never voiced such a sentiment? Ramon is probably oblivious as he seems to always be in his own little bubble and has shown no concern for anyone but himself.

[The Solution]

52 minutes ago, Rahul said:

I had an immediate sense of foreboding once we saw him biking at night while on the phone. I've witnessed one of those accidents firsthand where the driver's side door is suddenly swung open while a biker whizzes by, and the fallout is never pretty. Of course this happened to be a convertible with no metal frame on top of the window but then again Michael flew off his bike and through the glass shattering it entirely (which I've never seen happen) so there is no way he's coming away from this incident unscathed.

Is it wrong that I cracked up at this scene?

[Caseysgirl]

Well, it’s almost a cartoon or comedy trope, but they usually emerge with just a bemused look, so it never appears that anyone could be seriously injured, but life isn’t “The Three Stooges”.

[HazelEyes4325]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Greg can STFU. "I was lost and I had to do something" is not an acceptable reason for cheating on your wife with a prostitute. There are a million other things you can do if you feel lost.

Definitely.  I never had any sympathy for him, but I'm so far into negative sympathy at this point that I don't think he'll ever even lean towards redemption for me.  I honestly can't tell if we are supposed to have some sort of sympathy or if we are supposed to just hate him.  I mean, if it is the latter, good job show!

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, Chloe's mom is THE WORST. One of my best friends is an elementary school teacher so she has dealt with a lot of parents in denial. There are lots people who refuse to believe that their precious little angels would say or do anything bad. And then to have the fucking GALL to hug Ashley after denying that Chloe would ever say the word poopy? BLERG.

Yeah, that was a pretty painful scene to watch.  I'm not the biggest Ashley fan, but I do think that she handled that situation in the best way possible and then Chloe's mom shit all over her.  Then, to make it worse, Malcolm gets on her case about it.  I did want to know if Ashley ever spoke to her daughter about calling Chloe Carrot head or whatever.  I mean, we aren't sure that it actually happened--and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't, just by the way Chloe introduced it into the conversation.  But, I also want to know if Ashley teaches her child about race beyond the idea that she might face racism because she's black.\

\

4 hours ago, Rahul said:

Who knew Greg's TA Michael had such nice arms under those plaid shirts he was wearing. I had an immediate sense of foreboding once we saw him biking at night while on the phone. I've witnessed one of those accidents firsthand where the driver's side door is suddenly swung open while a biker whizzes by, and the fallout is never pretty. Of course this happened to be a convertible with no metal frame on top of the window but then again Michael flew off his bike and through the glass shattering it entirely (which I've never seen happen) so there is no way he's coming away from this incident unscathed.

I had a friend whose daughter suffered a very similar accident.  All the doctors said she was lucky because she was only left with serious injuries.  So, yeah, I can't see the TA coming back from that.

 

13 hours ago, scrb said:

I liked Audrey's fury and the quick turn from the lovey-dovey family in the pilot.  You can tell things are real when Kristen feels awkward when she gets home and then Duc walks in on Audrey ranting and summarizing the whole affair.

I got the feeling that Kristen's awkwardness was due to seeing Ramon, not necessarily to do with her parents.  I get that Ramon was emotionally overwrought when Kristen told him what she saw, but the way he treated her was far from fair.  (I also think she was right to tell him...)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

48 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

the way he treated her was far from fair

ITA - that was the very definition of shooting the messenger. It’s not Kristen’s fault that Henry was skulking about and making himself seem sketchy! Sure, ignorance is bliss but if she kept this information from Ramon and he later found out, he would be mad at her for doing what Henry did - deliberately withholding information.

[bilgistic]

On 2/18/2018 at 10:22 PM, The Solution said:

Every time I watch this show, I get the Luther Vandross song stuck in my head.

 

On 2/19/2018 at 7:35 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It gets stuck in my head every time I see the show title on the front page!

Me three!

[IslandGirl]

5 hours ago, Rahul said:

So did Henry actually sleep with the other homeless guy in the tent? He didn't deny it to Ramon and he did look quite riddled with guilt when confronted. I thought these two were supposed to be the David and Keith of the show but who knows. We only have three episodes left in the season and I have no idea where any of these storylines are heading.

Who knew Greg's TA Michael had such nice arms under those plaid shirts he was wearing. I had an immediate sense of foreboding once we saw him biking at night while on the phone. I've witnessed one of those accidents firsthand where the driver's side door is suddenly swung open while a biker whizzes by, and the fallout is never pretty. Of course this happened to be a convertible with no metal frame on top of the window but then again Michael flew off his bike and through the glass shattering it entirely (which I've never seen happen) so there is no way he's coming away from this incident unscathed.

Now at least two of their children are aware of Audrey and Greg's marital issues. Kristen somewhat bore witness to the first fight and Duc overheard the most damning of details. I wonder if Duc will take it upon himself to heal the growing fissure between his parents. What exactly motivated him to tell his editor that his father wanted another crack at the forward when he never voiced such a sentiment? Ramon is probably oblivious as he seems to always be in his own little bubble and has shown no concern for anyone but himself.

I too wondered if Henry had sex with the homeless guy or not. I get a sinister, evil vibe from Henry; not because he's homeless, but because he seems to be hiding something really awful from his past. While I don't think Ramon should have busted into Henry's workplace like that, I once dated a guy who was moving in fast on me, & when I found out he was homeless, it freaked me out--not because he was homeless, but because he never told me & I felt like he was just using me for a place to sleep, shower & shit! So I totally empathize with Ramon in this case, even though his self-involved-ness is a bit of a turn off (though I guess feeling like you're losing your mind will do that to a person). I also hated the way he shot the messenger with Kristin.

Like others here, my friend & I looked at TA Michael riding his bicycle, at night, on the phone, & simultaneously said, "Uh oh, he's about to get hit!". I wonder if he'll live, & if so, if he'll be impaired. He seemed to be a bridge of sorts between Duc & his Dad Greg.  Speaking of Duc, I think the reason he called his publisher to say his Dad wanted another crack at writing the forward is this: we've seen his Asian birth mother prostituting herself in front of young Duc; we've seen Duc having terribly rough sex with women in his past, as if punishing them/his birth mother; we saw the written forward (& TA Michael) state how similar Greg & Duc actually are despite not seeming so; then finally we see Duc hear his father hired an Asian prostitute to "stick his dick into"--I believe the last person Duc would "want to be like" is someone who'd hire an Asian prostitute to have sex with. So he wants a new forward: one that does not say he & Greg are in any way alike...

[bilgistic]

I first have to say I feel vindicated because I guessed correctly last week that Henry lives in the tent village. We don't know if the guy he was seen with is his hookup or friend or dining companion or checkers opponent or tentmate. There could be many explanations.

Ramon definitely shouldn't have confronted Henry during his shift at work, but should've waited until Henry was off. He didn't give Henry a chance to explain anything. Being homeless despite having a job is likely incredibly embarrassing and not something he felt he could share for whatever reason. Perhaps he was afraid Ramon, who has led a privileged life, would run upon finding out. They've talked about Ramon's upbringing and current lifestyle and how it differs from Henry's.

I'm not defending the "lie of omission" because one should be honest with one's partner, which includes laying down the parameters of the relationship, which they also hadn't done. This feels like a huge misunderstanding over which they shouldn't have broken up. I just wish they would've talked more.

Not only did Ramon not discuss the situation with Henry--he had predetermined what was going on--he cancelled his therapy appointment.