S02.E09: And I Am a Violent Criminal

[formerlyfreedom]

Javier and Letty find their way back to each other, but the man hunting Javier is still at large, so they’re both in constant danger. Letty crosses a line she never thought she would…

 

[dubbel zout]

LOL at the Brownie saying "Really?" about Javi buying the lemon cookies. There's no way he could know Thin Mints are the best.

There's no way those stores wouldn't have theft-prevention devices on their clothes. 

I love that Jacob was reading I, Tina when Rob was yelling at him.

In some ways, this ep was grimmer than last week's. 

[Nessie]

On 12/1/2017 at 2:31 PM, Jadzia said:

Considering the actress who plays Estelle is only 12 years older than the actress who plays Letty, are we supposed to think that Estelle was a teenage mom? Or is Letty supposed to be younger than the actress who plays her. I was shocked when Alice said she was pregnant with Estelle in 1968, which makes her only 3 years older than me. I can't imagine having a daughter Letty's age!

Brought this over from the episode 6 thread...Letty said in tonight's episode that she was 34 (a year younger than MD, but she could have been 34 when this was filmed).  If Estelle was born in 1968 she would be 49, which would have made her 15 when she had Letty (and probably 14 when she got pregnant with her).  Damn...I mean, I figured she had been a teen mom, but I didn't think she was that young.

Anyone remember how old Jacob is supposed to be?  If he is any younger than 13, Letty was not a teen mom, like I assumed she was.

34 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

LOL at the Brownie saying "Really?" about Javi buying the lemon cookies. There's no way he could know Thin Mints are the best.

There's no way those stores wouldn't have theft-prevention devices on their clothes. 

I love that Jacob was reading I, Tina when Rob was yelling at him.

In some ways, this ep was grimmer than last week's. 

I'm with Javier.  The lemon cookies are my favorites, too.  I have to buy the Thin Mints and Tagalongs for everyone else, but that just means I get the lemon ones all to myself. :-)  I was a little surprised to see the Girl Scouts at his door not once, but twice, and no parents in sight (unless I missed them).  I didn't think they were allowed to go door-to-door anymore.

Obviously Teo was going to be in the house, but I jumped anyway.  Gotta love that Letty's code to Jav was for him to bring her a crispy green salad, and he immediately knew that meant something was wrong. 

This show is so good right now.  I hate that there's only one episode left.  

Edited December 11, 2017 by Nessie

[Lonesome Rhodes]

So now Letty is a stone murderer.  The house is in her name.  Obviously, LE will never guess she is involved in the murder/disappearance of a security dude hired to secure her house.  

On what basis am I supposed to root for her?

At least we saw  a logical demise of a near-hopeless addict.  

I'm not as happy that Javy so drastically underestimated Teo...AGAIN!  

[justmehere]

When the security guard walked in and announced himself, I half expected a smart-ass remark from Letty along the lines of "you're late." I did not expect her to reflexively shoot him! I know she was terrified and in shock, though, after shooting Teo.

Wish there were more than 10 episodes per season. More than that, I want a renewal announcement.

[HollyG]

3 hours ago, Nessie said:

Brought this over from the episode 6 thread...Letty said in tonight's episode that she was 34 (a year younger than MD, but she could have been 34 when this was filmed).  If Estelle was born in 1968 she would be 49, which would have made her 15 when she had Letty (and probably 14 when she got pregnant with her).  Damn...I mean, I figured she had been a teen mom, but I didn't think she was that young.

Anyone remember how old Jacob is supposed to be?  If he is any younger than 13, Letty was not a teen mom, like I assumed she was.

I'm with Javier.  The lemon cookies are my favorites, too.  I have to buy the Thin Mints and Tagalongs for everyone else, but that just means I get the lemon ones all to myself. :-)  I was a little surprised to see the Girl Scouts at his door not once, but twice, and no parents in sight (unless I missed them).  I didn't think they were allowed to go door-to-door anymore.

Obviously Teo was going to be in the house, but I jumped anyway.  Gotta love that Letty's code to Jav was for him to bring her a crispy green salad, and he immediately knew that meant something was wrong. 

This show is so good right now.  I hate that there's only one episode left.  

They still sell door to door where I live in S.California. They go out in pairs and there is always a parent with them. They also set up tables outside of grocery stores. I'm not sure if they order extra to sell like that or if it's cookies that are undeliverable for some reason. 

Everything is so wrecked in both Letty and Javier's lives right now. I wish there were a few more episodes to leave them in a better place.... especially since there is no news about a third season.

[attica]

We got not only a textbook deployment of Chekhov's gun, we got a bonus deployment of Chekhov's cactus! Well done, scripters!

I was reading last week that soon-to-be princess Meghan Markle was undergoing kidnapping training, which includes stuff like 'how to communicate that you're being held hostage without saying so.' Clearly Letty has had the same training, what with her Mixed Greens Salad. :)

If Javy was bringing home food, he could have well brought home some of that lovely fresh seafood, you know? Then he wouldn't have to stop! Is the fact that it was packed with lots of cocaine any reason to let it go to waste?! 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Well I was close. Instead of money laundering it was straight up drug running. Not sure I believe Ava had no clue about it though. It might have been a Queen of the South-like scenario where she took out her family so she could take over the drug business.

Not sure it was good idea for Javier to leave those drugs at the same place he did the poisoning job. That will probably make it easier for the law enforcement investigators eventually to trace both the hit and drugs back to him.

How would Letty afford the property taxes on that place? Plus she'd have to furnish it and pay the monthly utilities. Javier knows she can't afford a house like that, at least not unless she stays in her life of crime.

I'm with Javi. Not a fan of the Thin Mints. My favorites are actually the Savannahs, hah, hah.

I don't believe for second that Javier wouldn't have anticipated that Teo would double-cross him. But hey, Letty finally accomplished what Javier seemingly couldn't...and then made everything 1000% worse. The final shot with her sobbing on the floor and him sneaking around the corner gripping his gun was chilling.

This is being renewed for a third season, right? Heck, at this point I'd watch a show just about Javier if MD wants to leave.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Joimiaroxeu

[CKTV123]

Quote

I'm not as happy that Javy so drastically underestimated Teo...AGAIN! 

Yes. When Letty asked to go with him I wanted him to take her. And now he gets to dig an extra grave for the poor sap from the security company.  

I did love watching Letty get settled into that house. Hanging up her "work clothes" and look around not fully believing that its her house. 

[Bubbetv]

My alert bells were going off when Ava's plan was going to Argentina. She knows Teo killed her family because to take over the Violent Criminal Business-which began and is centralized IN Argentina? I'm calling bullshit she takes her kids there to hide safely. She's hiding from Teo and Jav mopping each other up.

I believe Teo was the last peasant in Ava's boat, and she played them all perfectly.

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, Nessie said:

I was a little surprised to see the Girl Scouts at his door not once, but twice, and no parents in sight (unless I missed them).  I didn't think they were allowed to go door-to-door anymore.

Not that it contradicts your point, but the second Girl Scouts were a different pair. 

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

How would Letty afford the property taxes on that place? Plus she'd have to furnish it and pay the monthly utilities.

I wondered that, too! Putting the house in her name doesn't do her any good if she can't afford it. (That reminds me of a friend of a friend, who inherited a great NYC apartment, but no money for upkeep was included, so he had to sell it almost immediately in order not to get stuck with maintenance fees and all of that. You need to think that stuff through!)

[NumberCruncher]

10 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

So now Letty is a stone murderer.  The house is in her name.  Obviously, LE will never guess she is involved in the murder/disappearance of a security dude hired to secure her house.  

A killer, yes.  Not a murderer.  In Teo's case, that was straight-up self defense as Letty feared for her own life.  I think an strong argument can be made it was manslaughter for the security guy since she was clearly panicked and didn't intend to kill him.  Murder would require premeditation, no?

[thesupremediva1]

This episode was beautifully poetic in the dialogue, the delivery, the cinematography, and of course the acting. 

Christian was such an MVP this episode. I love that he maintained loyalty to Letty while doing right by her in spite of her wishes. Everyone knows that Letty belongs with Javier. Jav looked in physical pain when he spoke to Christian. Letty just couldn't face her own embarrassment and regret at what she'd said to Javier. I think she's used to treating people that way and having them walk away from her. She burns the bridge and never looks back. But Javier is too solid for that. He's a constant that can't be discounted. I'm sure she wanted to do anything other than face the hurt she caused him. The way Michelle's face crumbled in the car when Christian asked Letty about the apology... I have no words. Michelle Dockery was masterful in that moment. I lurched forward.  I felt her pain. Give her an Emmy!

The whole scene with Letty lying on the floor talking to Javier and him standing over top of her was rich in texture and meaning and really moved me. I felt like Letty - tired, scared, boxed-in, slightly wary about the outcome of the conversation... she knew she was in the wrong and she had to deliver he apology in position of vulnerability.

And Javier, like a stalker of prey, lorded over her with the upper hand... but she's his Letty, not his prey. He put his weapon down. She put her walls down. There was honesty. I love that he tried to feed her lemon cookies. He just wants the best for her. I also love that he mentions Jacob in all their plans. He wants Letty to have all the things - or at least the possibility of all the things.

Lusia Struss and Joey Kern are just awesome. Estelle is tough as nails, but with Letty as a daughter, I see why she has to be that way. The sneaker scene killed me. Estelle has to protect Jacob but doesn't want to hurt her daughter any worse than her daughter has already hurt herself. What a predicament to be in. It led to another gold-star acting moment from Michelle: "I'm 34." What moment for Letty to finally take some ownership. She can't blame it on her mom. She's a full-grown adult and she's lucky her son is being cared for by a family member. 

The end... I have no words. Mixed green salad will never sound the same to me. Letty and Javier are now linked in another inextricable way. I screamed at the end. The show does that muted buzzing so well. When they use it like they did in the pilot, I literally feel like I'm about to have a panic attack. The soundtrack of this show, even in the quiet moments, is just so spot on. I can only imagine where the finale takes us.

I require a season 3 to sleep at night. Just sayin.

[vm2017]

18 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

There's no way those stores wouldn't have theft-prevention devices on their clothes.

Ugh.  Agreed.  Although, I did laugh when Christian was like "just gimme back my money"

16 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

So now Letty is a stone murderer.  The house is in her name.  Obviously, LE will never guess she is involved in the murder/disappearance of a security dude hired to secure her house. 

I'm not as happy that Javy so drastically underestimated Teo...AGAIN!  

That was accidental.  Still bad, just involuntary manslaughter bad and not first degree murder bad. 

Yeah, Javier/Teo...that is what would be called a stupid plot device.  Has Javier never heard of the 15 min rule?  It's not just for college.  Although, it did lead to the mixed green salad signal which was great.  I love the continuity on this show!

15 hours ago, justmehere said:

When the security guard walked in and announced himself, I half expected a smart-ass remark from Letty along the lines of "you're late." I did not expect her to reflexively shoot him! I know she was terrified and in shock, though, after shooting Teo.

Yep.  From sneak clips, I knew someone was getting killed.  I assumed it was Teo only.  Oops.  But seriously, what kind of home service doesn't call before coming a whole day early?!?  And did that guy not hear the 3 gun shots that were fired like secs before he walks in?  Also, was that Kevin from The Office ;)

 

9 hours ago, CKTV123 said:

I did love watching Letty get settled into that house. Hanging up her "work clothes" and look around not fully believing that its her house. 

I LOVED this whole sequence.  Her only stable homes were probably when she was a kid with Estelle and then prison.  Javier was incredibly sweet to give her this opportunity.  And yeah, I also thought about the property taxes - but that's for next year if they get a season 3!

 

8 hours ago, Bubbetv said:

I believe Teo was the last peasant in Ava's boat, and she played them all perfectly.

I really hope you're wrong :(

 

2 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Christian was such an MVP this episode. I love that he maintained loyalty to Letty while doing right by her in spite of her wishes.

Estelle is tough as nails, but with Letty as a daughter, I see why she has to be that way. The sneaker scene killed me.

Christian was the best kind of friend here but I didn't like what he said about Estelle. I don't like Estelle.  We don't know what kind of relationship really existed btwn Letty/Estelle. How many times has Letty shown up hungover, broke, and shoeless at Estelle's?  This probably wasn't the first time.  That being said, saying the shoes were going to Goodwill anyway was a cheap shot.

 

Can't wait until next week and see where they go from here.  Really hope there is a season 3 even if the ratings are pretty crappy :(

[helenamonster]

Holy balls. This was such a relatively slow episode for most of it and then that ending. I had been predicting that this show would turn the tables and have Letty kill someone eventually, and I like that they gave her someone justifiable (Teo, who was going to kill her and Javier) and not so justifiable (the poor security guy with the world's worst timing, even though Letty didn't mean to shoot him). I think it will give her greater insight into how Javier navigates the world. So now we just need to give Javier an excuse to pull off a heist and they will be one hundred percent interwoven.

Mixed greens salad. Heh. Javier doesn't miss a trick.

Everybody needs a Christian.

I too am really really hoping this gets picked up for season three.

2 hours ago, vm2017 said:

Also, was that Kevin from The Office ;)

Ahh no way! He was too far away and not well lit, I didn't recognize him! This is exactly the kind of situation I could see him getting himself into though.

[Crs97]

Since Letty woke up in the middle of Christian and Estelle’s discussion, I assumed Estelle had already said some things we didn’t hear that caused Christian’s reaction.

Michelle was so good in so many of her scenes.  Why exactly does Christian love her so much?  I feel like I missed something that explains why he is willing to go to these lengths for her.  Please tell me it is not just to get stuff for his book. He doesn’t come across that way.

Killing the security guard was a complete accident. A good attorney could get her off for both dead bodies.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Christian, for all his empathy, is culpable for the murder of the security guy.  If he had not half-assed the detox, which he knew full well needed to be extensive and closely monitored due to his time as a probation officer, let her out onto the world where, in an obviously altered state, on top of which the shooting of Teo happened, she shot an innocent.  

I'd love for the show to take us to Argentina for awhile as part of the great escape.

[TaraS1]

I didn't love the two previous episodes, so I was kind of distancing myself from the show and accepting the likely heartache of not getting a third season, but damn it, this episode was everything that's good and wonderful and special about the show and these screwed up characters.

"Well, maybe you will let me live here with you..."  For that line alone, we deserve at least three more seasons.

(Also, are we sure the security guy is dead?  Seems weird to hire the guy from The Office, even if he's not the most famous guy from The Office, just for that tiny role that anyone could have played.)

[Hanahope]

I think its kindof bull that the security guard wouldn't have actually heard the shooting as opposed to just "oh, the door was open" and walking inside.  He should have taken a lot more caution, like staying outside while he slowly pushed the door further open.  And, seeing a woman with the gun, and a man on the ground bleeding, I think most men would have assumed the woman was defending herself and gone towards the woman to help, rather than trying to leave.  Not to mention the security guy showing up a day early, when does that ever happen?  So this particular scenario is a bit too much contrived.

Course, the whole ability for Christian to find Letty, and just happen to know a 'free clinic' with a nurse willing to come out to the car to help Letty is contrived.  Not to mention Letty, being fairly obviously unwell, is still able to steal everything, clothes, a suitcase (wtf?), etc.

If the actors weren't so good in their roles and with each other, I wouldn't stand for all this contrivance.

[attica]

In case I'm the only one who sings the ep title to the tune of Dolly/Whitney's "I Will Always Love You", I'm here to spread the earworm. :)

"And Ii-ee-iiii am a vi'lent crih-ih-im-'naaaaal (ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh). Iiiii'm a Cri-hi-min-alll."

[dubbel zout]

*shakes fist at attica*

[CKTV123]

Quote

Letty just couldn't face her own embarrassment and regret at what she'd said to Javier. I think she's used to treating people that way and having them walk away from her. She burns the bridge and never looks back. 

I think she does that as a defense mechanism. Estelle was a lousy mother to her, the detestable man who fathered her child also got her into meth and other undesirable ventures. At some point in her life every person she's let in has let her down, screwed her over, abandoned her, turned her in...she's afraid to trust anyone and who could blame her? Estelle knows she was not a good mother to Letty but doesn't think she can fix it now. Javier and Christian are both in love with her. What a roller coaster for Letty to find herself on.

And thanks a lot attica*

Edited December 12, 2017 by CKTV123

[Hanahope]

Since I too had heard that pieces of the second Letty Dobish book were going to show up this season, When Teo showed up, I thought here it is, she would escape from Teo and hide like she did in the book and events after.  But obviously that didn't happen.  So I have no idea if the second book will be used or not.

[Nancypants]

10 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I think its kindof bull that the security guard wouldn't have actually heard the shooting as opposed to just "oh, the door was open" and walking inside.  He should have taken a lot more caution, like staying outside while he slowly pushed the door further open.  And, seeing a woman with the gun, and a man on the ground bleeding, I think most men would have assumed the woman was defending herself and gone towards the woman to help, rather than trying to leave.  Not to mention the security guy showing up a day early, when does that ever happen?  So this particular scenario is a bit too much contrived.

Course, the whole ability for Christian to find Letty, and just happen to know a 'free clinic' with a nurse willing to come out to the car to help Letty is contrived.  Not to mention Letty, being fairly obviously unwell, is still able to steal everything, clothes, a suitcase (wtf?), etc.

If the actors weren't so good in their roles and with each other, I wouldn't stand for all this contrivance.

The best way to enjoy show is to watch for the amazing chemistry, superb acting and plot twists! Once you adopt a Suspension of Disbelief,  this show is a Blast. Reality is no fun anyways

I loved when she was unpacking in the walk in closet and she discovered the yellow blouse she wore in ep. 1/2. 

[msrachelj]

20 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I think its kindof bull that the security guard wouldn't have actually heard the shooting as opposed to just "oh, the door was open" and walking inside.  He should have taken a lot more caution, like staying outside while he slowly pushed the door further open.  And, seeing a woman with the gun, and a man on the ground bleeding, I think most men would have assumed the woman was defending herself and gone towards the woman to help, rather than trying to leave.  Not to mention the security guy showing up a day early, when does that ever happen?  So this particular scenario is a bit too much contrived.

Course, the whole ability for Christian to find Letty, and just happen to know a 'free clinic' with a nurse willing to come out to the car to help Letty is contrived.  Not to mention Letty, being fairly obviously unwell, is still able to steal everything, clothes, a suitcase (wtf?), etc.

If the actors weren't so good in their roles and with each other, I wouldn't stand for all this contrivance.

you really have to overlook a lot in this show. letty would never get away with all that sometimes obvious, stealing from stores.  where is she stealing from,the 1960's, before they had security devices? total bull shit. and also unbelievable that javier is so smart so savvy, that he can recognize the "salad" but was stupid enough to leave letty alone in the house. even i knew that was something no one in his profession, so supposedly street smart, would do.

 i didn't even realize the security guard was a day early. yeah right!! customer service sucks these days people! you are lucky if he isn't 6 hours late. and i have never had a service person just walk in my house.  i'm pretty sure they are never to do that. how'd you like a nice big german shepard coming out of his nap to tear you up? 

but yes, all the actors are great, charismatic. i wish the show didn't make such glaring "mistakes".

[Jadzia]

Can someone please explain the "mixed green salad" reference to me? I was assuming it was an intentional SOS clue but I could not recall when Letty and Javier had discussed it.

 

On 12/11/2017 at 5:01 PM, thesupremediva1 said:

Christian was such an MVP this episode.

He was, but it bugged me that he just dropped her off and pulled away before seeing if Javier was home and she could get into the house! I guess he just assumed she would break in if no one was home. Maybe it's the mom in me, but when I drop someone off I always wait to make sure they get in ok before I leave.

[attica]

25 minutes ago, Jadzia said:

Can someone please explain the "mixed green salad" reference to me?

When Letty and Javier go to diners, he always gets a salad, she always gets a cheeseburger/milkshake, or something like that. There's been some banter about her eating crap and him eating healthfully. 

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, msrachelj said:

stupid enough to leave letty alone in the house

I didn't see that as stupid as much as guessing wrong. There were a number of ways things could have gone down with Teo, and Javier chose the one that didn't happen. And he did leave a gun with Letty, so it's not as if she were completely unprepared or helpless.

35 minutes ago, Jadzia said:

it bugged me that he just dropped her off and pulled away before seeing if Javier was home and she could get into the house!

I know! He didn't even wait until she waved him off. I make sure people get into their houses, too, and I'm not even a mom. (LOL.) 

[Future Cat Lady]

One would think that a store that sells $180 t-shirts would have anti-theft devices on all their items. How lucky for Letty that they don’t. Of course, she’s the luckiest thief ever. She never gets caught even though her fingerprints are all over the place and she always knows the combinations to the safes. 

But maybe that’s the point. If anyone in the audience tried to steal like Letty, they would get caught. 

And on another subject, all I can say about the ending of the last episode is SHIT!

[tessabq]

And this is why Letty cannot have nice things. 

[Moxie Cat]

On December 12, 2017 at 8:21 AM, TaraS1 said:

(Also, are we sure the security guy is dead?  Seems weird to hire the guy from The Office, even if he's not the most famous guy from The Office, just for that tiny role that anyone could have played.)

I thought the same thing. I saw his name in the credits, and got excited, and then...one line? Maybe he's just friends with someone on the show. I hope for Letty's sake he's not dead, but I don't know how they cover it if he isn't either.

[dubbel zout]

They showed blood starting to pool outside of his body; I'm pretty sure he's dead. 

[SAIRY]

Chad Hodges promised in an interview that he would be back in this episode.  Sounds like he's going to be the Ghost of Letty's Conscience, from what he said.

[TC3200]

Their conversations are hilarious. I figured it's more Lettie's brain misfiring form all those drugs, though. Not an actual haunting.  I felt s sad when he was accidentally killed. He seemed like the good family man type. :(